Join Dr. Michelle Bengtson in a heartfelt conversation on Becoming Bridge Builder with Keith Haney, where they explore the transformative journey of turning scars into sacred scars through the healing power of God. Discover how personal stories of overcoming scars can bring beauty and purpose to life. Embrace the significance of trusting God with your pain and witness how wounds can become sources of inspiration.

In this uplifting discussion, Dr. Bengtson shares profound insights into themes of healing, redemption, and the profound impact of God’s love. This episode is a testament to the power of faith and the beauty that can emerge from our deepest wounds.

Well, Michelle is so good to have you on the podcast. How you doing today?

I'm great, Keith. It's good to be back with you.

It's good to have you on again. Looking forward to a new conversation with a new book and talk about some new topics as you keep progressing in your journey to help all of us learn to deal with our issues and give us a little bit of hope and encouragement. So we encourage, we'd like to have you on.

Thank you, I appreciate it.

So I'm gonna ask you the same question, maybe there's a different answer than the last time, what's the best piece of advice you've ever received?

The best piece of advice was right before we got married in premarital counseling. I was advised to never start doing anything in our marriage that I didn't want to have to continue for the duration of our marriage. And I've given that advice to other people. I mean, if you don't want to mow the lawn, don't offer to do it because somehow that'll end up on your to -do list forever.

That is very true.

We've lasted 35 years, so whether or not that piece of advice was wisdom or not, I can't answer that question, but we've survived a lot of ups and downs and we're still thriving.

Well, that's good to know. I'm curious, as you think about your life, who were some people that served as an inspiration for you?

for one, my husband is probably the most optimistic person you will ever meet. He has gone through several bouts of cancer. He was told 20 years ago that he had less than two years to live and he's still with us. And Keith, I really think while I do attribute God performing a miracle in his life, I do think

Part of the reason he's still here is because he is so optimistic and he doesn't ruminate on the negative. And that's constantly a lesson to me to focus on the positive, not to ignore difficulties that come our way, but to maintain our focus on Jesus. But I've also been so blessed over the last several decades to have mentors who have guided me, who have spoken truth into my life, who have prayed me through

difficult situations and I'm grateful to them. But I'm also grateful to the mental health community because there have been times in the past when I, as a mental health provider, needed to seek out the counsel of others. And I'm grateful that the Bible doesn't shame us for that. In fact, it says it's a good thing to have a multitude of wise counselors.

I love that. Those are all important aspects, and especially that your husband could be such an inspiration to you being so close to your life and the situation. He knows the challenges and struggles that you've gone through as a couple, as a family, and can be that source of hope and encouragement for you. That's always a goal all of us have to be for our significant others, right?

for sure.

So let's dive into your new book. Let's start out with a basic question, because the name of your book is Sacred Scar. So what is a scar to start out with?

Okay.

you

Well, let's start first with what is a wound because without a wound, we wouldn't have a scar. A wound is an area of pain, of hurt. It could be an infection and an abrasion. It could be a burn. A wound can also be invisible and come at the hands or words of another. And sometimes we even contribute to our own wounds through our behavior and our actions. But a wound

Very true.

is that festering area of pain and that includes physical, emotional, relational, or even spiritual wounds, grief or loss. But a scar is actually a healed wound and we can think of it in terms of the physical body when we become wounded in some way. If it's a cut or it's a burn or it's an infection, God has naturally created our body to send new cells to that area

of pain and injury to create collagen to form over that area of wound so that we can heal. So a scar is actually a place a representation of the healing that's taken place for that area of wounding in our life. Without healing we wouldn't have scars.

That's true. Because those wounds would pretty much take us out, right? Right. So in your book, you share some of your personal stories of events that scarred you in your childhood. Kind of tell us about some of those scars and how those scars impacted your life.

That's right. That's right.

One of the biggest things from my childhood was an injury that I, or an illness that I had when I was three years old. And it was such a bad illness. I had a fever of 107 and doctors told my parents, you've got to get that fever down or she's not going to live. So my parents did everything that the doctor suggested from alcohol rubs to ice baths, but nothing was taking that fever down. So doctors told my parents to give me aspirin, not knowing that I'm deathly allergic

to aspirin. What ensued was the doctors trying to save my life, pumping my stomach of as much of the aspirin as they could, but it left me with severe physical deformity. I have a two inch leg length difference, so I walk with a limp and my right leg looks like a peg leg, like an artificial leg, and my right foot is severely deformed. It looks like an upside down V. It looks a lot like the Asian women whose feet have been bound.

my.

so that they didn't grow to a certain size. And so with every step I take since three years of age, there's pain there. But you know, Keith, I didn't realize that I was different from any of my peers until the elementary school playground where kids are brutally honest and brought my differences to my attention.

Mmm.

So not only did I have the physical wounds of that illness, but I also had emotional and relational because they were cruel and for much of my life I have covered up those scars. I didn't want to draw attention to myself so I would wear long pants and I would wear boots so that you couldn't tell that one foot was half the size of the other foot.

But I've also endured emotional wounds and scars as well. I was raised by a mother who was depressed my entire childhood. So she modeled for me looking through a glass empty lens, not even a glass half empty, but it was empty, which is why my husband is someone that I look up to because he has such an opposite perspective and the Lord has used him to kind of counteract the upbringing that I had.

But because of that...

I really became a neuropsychologist to help other people going through emotional and mental difficulties. But in my pride, I thought that all my education and alphabet soup after my name would insulate me from becoming depressed. And it didn't. It didn't prevent me from experiencing depression, nor did being a Christ follower. We often have a tendency to think, well, Christians don't get depressed. Well, that's not true. We have an enemy.

deal with. But God has used all of those scars in such beautiful redemptive ways, but only after I was willing to participate in healing. I had to seek out counseling. I had to seek out wise mentors. I had to go through many surgeries and I had to allow the Lord to do a heart work in me. And that's the key.

All right.

So often we don't want to go through the pain of the healing process because we know it's going to hurt, but it doesn't hurt nearly as much as that open wound does.

Yeah, that's beautiful. You know, as I think about scars, I'm reminded of the Bible. And in that culture, it was a culture of honor and shame. And shame played a huge role in so many of the Bible stories that we see that we don't really catch up because that's not as much of a part of our American culture as maybe Middle Eastern culture, where everything is about honor and shame. But

Most times we're ashamed of our scars. Like you tried to hide your scars and your deformities growing up. How does shame affect us and what can we do to help God walk us through that shame? So I don't think we can get there through ourselves, but how do we help, like allow the belief for God to kind of walk us through that shame?

Yes.

Our wounds are a place of vulnerability and the enemy always attacks where we are the most vulnerable. So for some people, their wound might be an addiction to pornography. Someone else, their wound is a physical wound. For someone else, it could be marital infidelity, but the enemy always goes to our place of greatest vulnerability. And when we're vulnerable and when we're in pain, which a wound brings pain by its very definition,

That's when the enemy gets in there and says, because of what you've been through, you're going to be rejected, you're going to be abandoned, God can't love you, God can't have compassion on you, God can't forgive what you've done or what's been done to you. And all of these messages heap shame on us.

Sometimes though, we contribute to our own wounds. We engage in behaviors, sinful behaviors that we later regret, hopefully later regret. And the enemy will swoop in there and say, hmm, because of that, that disqualifies you from the love of God, the mercy of God, the compassion of God, the forgiveness of God, and it disqualifies you from service to the Lord.

And in our shame, we quickly latch onto that and believe that. The truth is, we make mistakes. The truth is, things will happen to us at the hands or the words of others. But shame doesn't say, you made a mistake. Shame says, you are a mistake. And as a result of shame and...

guilt and remorse and fear, shame causes us to isolate.

And that is the worst thing for us to do. God did not create us to live in isolation. And we certainly can't heal in isolation, in isolation from the Lord or from others. You know, scripture tells us to confess our sins one to another and we will be healed. God has created a way for us to deal with guilt and shame and remorse. But the enemy is very convincing. And until we're willing to open up

up our hearts and our hands and say, okay, Lord, I'm going to trust you in this process. Healing is not going to come and the enemy wins. But Jesus said in this world, you will experience trouble, pain, suffering. But then he went on to say, but take heart because I have overcome the world. Well, sometimes we stop with the first part of that message that says you're going to experience all this and we stay in that place.

But we can take heart because he has overcome the enemy. Scripture tells us that on the cross, he put shame to death. And that's where we need to go because our redemption is in him.

Wow, I love that. That's a powerful reminder. Your background and your own situation uniquely had you in a position to write this book, Sacred Scars. What do you hope readers get out of your book, Sacred Scars?

The biggest takeaway is that regardless of what has happened to you in the past,

regardless of what you've done in the past, regardless of the wounds and the pain you have experienced. It is not out of the hands of our redemptive God to bring beauty for your ashes and sacred scars for your wounds. But God is not going to pry your hands or your heart open. He's waiting for you to come to Him and say, okay, Lord, I'm ready. Let's do a healing work. And He will.

Because your book is based on God's movement in our lives, are there figures in the Bible that you resonate with, the idea of scars that maybe even God caused people in the Bible or led to, had some contribution to?

I'm so grateful that there's story after story after story in the Bible of people's failings and that the story rarely ends there. We get to see the finished work that they didn't know of. You know, I think of Job. I think of the fact that he went through physical, emotional, mental, relational, spiritual pain, grief and loss. He lost all of his servants and all of his children.

and he got to the place where he was very real with God. He's like, why did you even allow this to happen? Why did you even allow me to be born? But through that, God showed him more of God's character. And when we get to the end of the book of Job,

Job then says, you know, I thought I knew you before, but now I really know you. And to me, that's a beautiful reflection of a sacred scar for such traumatic pain that he went through. But I also think of the woman with the issue of blood. We know that she had physical.

pain because of her illness. But because of the societal norms back in that time, it would not be out of the question that she also experienced emotional pain, relational pain from having to distance herself from her people. We know she experienced financial pain because scripture tells us that she spent all of her money on doctors and only got worse. And we wonder if maybe there wasn't grief and loss, not just over losing her people, but over

losing her hopes and her dreams and yet what she shows us is that she held on to her faith enough that she knew if she could just touch the very hem of Jesus's garment she would be healed and there's a nine word interchange that Jesus spoke to her and he said daughter your faith has made you well

go and be healed. And what I love about that is that in that momentary exchange, he not only healed her physically, but I believe he healed her emotionally, relationally, and spiritually. Because he told her that she was his daughter. That validated her worth. That showed everybody around that the

Jesus thought she was of value and worth and when he told her to go He was proclaiming over her a future and a hope and I look at those situations and I think wow how painful she experienced that pain for over 10 years how painful to endure that and yet her faith was such that she experienced beautiful sacred scars as a result because today 2 ,000 years later, we're still reading about her

Right. You know, it's funny, I just preached on Job on Sunday and I'm so funny you picked out that particular thing because in verse in chapter 38, Job requests an audience before God. He's like, you know, it's like a legal situation. It's like, I want to come into your presence in your courthouse and I want to plead my case and figure out what I've done to offend you. And there is in chapter and verse three of verse 38, there is this one phrase that God uses. He tells Job to

Brace yourself like a man. And in the Hebrew, that literally means to tuck your robe into your waist and stand before me like a warrior and prepare yourself for God to answer you. And I thought, you know, what a picture that is. I kind of adduced to Sunday. It's like, imagine having a shootout in a wild wild west and you're facing Billy the Kid and you're an aging gunslinger and you know you have no shot unless Billy the Kid drops a gun.

Yeah.

because you're just outnumbered. But you're right, the way Job ends it is one of the most beautiful verses we have for the Easter hymn, My Redeemer Lives, because he says, yet in my flesh will I stand upon the earth, and yet in my flesh will I see God. And he says, for I know my Redeemer lives. And he makes this beautiful proclamation of, again, acknowledgement of who God is. And the woman you mentioned with the 12 years of bleeding, you know, you're right, she was separated.

Yes.

And cultural norms also said that she was separated from God because she couldn't enter the temple as long as she had a bleeding issue. So for 10 years, she, because that's where I saw that at the seat of God, you were separated from God for 10 years. You couldn't go into his house and even pray to him. And so imagine what that was like to be not only alone, but spiritually cut off from your God for 10 years. So yeah, you make some really great points about those two stories in the Bible.

second.

Yeah.

I think those stories are what give us hope. Those stories and recognizing that God always has good for His children. But it doesn't always look like we think it's going to look. His timing is definitely not always our timing. But the question that it brings us back to then, Keith, is are we going to surrender to God's way and His timing? Are we going to trust Him?

And if we don't, what's the alternative? Because the alternative seems really hopeless and helpless. And it makes me want to press in and go, you know better than I do.

Right.

So I'm going to trust your way. But it is also okay for us to say, God, I don't understand. And God, I sure wish that you would work faster. And God, why do you do this? Why did you allow this? Because the thing about Job is that Job was blameless and upright before the Lord. I can't say that. But still, bad things happen to him.

Right.

And so we have so many people who question, if God is so good, why does he allow bad things to happen? Well, first of all, we live in a fallen world. And second of all, for me, Keith, quite honestly, I know that if bad things never happened, I would have a tendency to go, I got a God, I'll let you know when I need you, right?

Yeah, exactly. Right.

when I grow the most, it's when I'm flat on my back and the only place I have to look is up. And so I'm grateful that God does allow the things that happen in my life because I need the frequent reminder to keep my eyes focused on him. That is the only way we can make it through the hard times in this life.

Exactly. Speaking about those hard times, you write in chapter four, God doesn't take our cares without consent. So why are we so reluctant, knowing what we just talked about with Job and with the one with the 12 years of bleeding, and even Jacob, why are we reluctant to let God take those worries and pain in our lives?

The biggest reason I believe is because we're so pain averse and we don't trust God fully. But that's okay because even...

if we have just a mustard seed of faith, God can use that. But I really think the other reason, Keith, is that we often have a tendency to relate to God the same way we related to our earthly parents. And not all of us had good God -honoring earthly parents. But even if we did,

They're fallible human beings who made mistakes. I've made plenty of mistakes trying to parent my children well, but even then I fall down. And so sometimes I think we're hesitant to go to God and allow him to do a work in us. First of all, because we're afraid of the pain. We are much more comfortable in our current known discomfort than we are willing to step out in faith and trust

Right.

God with the uncomfortable process of healing. But when we come to a place that we realize that God really does love us and he only wants the best for us, it's easier than to trust him. But it's okay, just like the man in the Bible, to say, God, I trust you, but help me in those areas where I'm struggling to trust.

We talk about scars, especially in our own lives and the lives of people we see in the Bible. That when God uses those difficult times, those wounds, those scars, He's uniquely equipping us for something. And that's the other part of the title of your book, that God is using your past to uniquely equip you for something in the future. So tell us a little bit about how you integrate those scars into God's divine plan for your life.

Part of it is recognizing that our scars serve a purpose and that God never wastes our pain and he never wastes our past.

I shared with you that I've got some physical scars. Well, I was also given a cancer diagnosis and after surgery, I remember when the doctor took off the bandages and I looked at that fresh scar and it was ugly and grotesque and I looked at it and thought, this is always going to be a reminder that I'm part of a club I don't want to be a part of.

But at the time, God had me in the portion of scripture reading and studying the resurrection story. Now, I will willingly admit to your listeners that I had some very faulty theology. In my mind, I pictured Jesus in his glorified body.

without his scars because we're told in scripture that when we go to heaven we're going to have a new and glorified body and I've always thought great I'm not going to have my scars I'm going to be above five feet and I'm going to wear stiletto heels which I've never been able to wear because of my deformity but God showed me that when Jesus appeared to his disciples in his resurrected body

he still had the scars in his hands and his feet from where they nailed him to the cross. And at first I thought, well...

That just doesn't make sense to me. But in the second encounter with his disciples, in the first encounter, Thomas was not there. In the second encounter, Thomas was. And the disciples had told him, we saw Jesus. And he's like, nope, not gonna believe it unless I see his scars. And Jesus comes upon the scene and not only shows Thomas his scars, but Jesus very kindly and compassionately says, feel, feel because it is I.

And in that moment God showed me that, Michelle, Jesus's scars have a very purposeful, redemptive purpose. In that, they show that Jesus was who he said he was and that he really did do what he said he was going to do. And I realized then, Keith, that our scars serve a beautiful, redemptive purpose as well. I went through a major, major health issue over a decade ago.

And while going through that, I was on medically induced bed rest for about five months. I think we talked about this the last time I was on your program, but...

The longer I stayed on bed rest, the more depression got a foothold in my life. Well, as I regained my health and doctors said that I could go back to my private practice on a very part -time basis, like one patient a day, three days a week, my very first day back, I cried the whole way to the office. I felt weak. I was tired. I was not ready to restart this ministry, but I went. And when my staff brought the patient back,

Sure.

I said, why are you here and how can I help you? And she started to weep. And over time she slowly shared that she had been through a very medically complex condition and that if she was being honest, she wasn't sure that she wanted to go on living. She showed me her arms that were battered and bruised from her wrist to her shoulder. And in that moment,

I sensed God whispering to my heart. I've not heard the audible voice of God, but it was like an internal whisper. And I sensed God saying, show her. And I don't know if you've ever argued with God, but in that moment I was arguing with God. I was like, God, you've got to be kidding. Like in mental health, we are a blank slate for our patients, you know? And I sensed him say, show her. And I'm like, there's no way. And it was as if he said, okay, you don't have to, but if you don't.

Yeah.

I'll find somebody else to use. And in that moment I was like, no, yes, sir. And so I rolled up my shirt sleeves.

Yeah.

from where my home IV had been attached that morning. And I showed her my bruised and battered arms from my wrist to my shoulder. And I looked at her and I said, it is no coincidence that you are in my office today of all days. I want you to know that you are seen, you are loved, you are valued, you have a future and a hope. And given that you are still breathing, God has a purpose and a plan for your life.

and tears again began to stroll down her cheeks and she looked at me and she said thank you for sharing your pain to help me in my pain and to show me that if you could make it through this ordeal I can make it through mine and Keith that is the most

significant experience of mine where I feel like God showed me that my pain had purpose and my sacred scars served to show others the goodness and the faithfulness of God. And I wouldn't have had those had I not gone through that experience. But because I allowed him to come in and heal those areas in my life,

is serve to encourage someone else. And sometimes that is the best use of our sacred scars is to encourage someone else who's just a few feet lower down on this ladder of life who needs encouragement.

I love that. And you're right, sometimes that was the whole thing I talked about on Sunday about Joe was we don't always understand the reason for our scars. And God just reminds us that his ways are higher than our ways and we don't understand the things he understands or the lives he will impact by our scars. I remember I did a funeral for a three year old who died in a grandparent swimming pool.

Yes.

And they asked me to do the funeral and I was like, I don't want to do this funeral. I've never done a funeral for someone that young. But I agreed and I searched for what should the message be. I can't talk about God's love because they're not feeling God's love. Not that God's love isn't there, but they're just not feeling that. So I talked about that God would be there to comfort them through all of this and talked about his compassion, not necessarily about his love.

Yeah.

Well, that family had a lot of influence in the community and so a lot of people showed up for that funeral who had never been in church or had not been in church in years. And God used that horrible death of that young person to reach and impact the lives of people who had been so far from here for so long that they heard the gospel message and some of them asked me, what time is church and can I come on Sunday? And I'm like, even though I didn't want to be there or be part of that.

Yes.

Wow.

God used that painful situation to reach into the lives of some people who needed to hear the gospel who would not have come otherwise. So yeah, you're right. We just don't know how God will use our scars, our pains, our tragedies to accomplish His divine purpose.

Yes.

Yeah, you're so right. What a beautiful example. In your obedience, God could use the most devastating circumstance in someone else's life to encourage other people. That's the God we serve. He's a God of redemption. We just have to trust until we see that sacred scar being formed.

Right.

And what was so powerful about that young person was her faith was so strong at three that you didn't wonder where she was. You just knew, but it was just the loss of that young life was devastating. But God knew where she was and knew her heart and could use that loss for his good, even though it was hurtful and painful for the family. Probably used still to this day, but God still used it.

Yeah.

Beautiful, beautiful. I think that's where the enemy...

has his greatest advantage is when we're hurting so desperately. And that's why I tell people it's so important before a crisis hits that you know what you believe, that you know what your foundation is, because in a state of crisis, like that family who lost their three year old, you are going to fall back on what you believe and what you know to be true. So make sure that it's grounded in the

Right.

of God because the enemy is going to try to come in and lie. He's called the father of lies. He's going to try to come in and lie to you about who God is, the fact that God could have prevented it. Well, yes, God could prevent our pain, but we live in a fallen world and we serve a sovereign God who gives us free will. But God can and wants to bring good out of even our most painful circumstances.

Right. I'm curious, Michelle, as you think about just kind of this space and time and where you're at, what are you most excited about in this season of your life?

This is probably a different answer than what you would expect, Keith, but God has me on a time of sabbatical and rest. And that's not easy for a type A very driven person who in all honesty, when I get to heaven, I don't want any of my talents to still exist. Like I want to use them up for the kingdom's good.

Yeah

But that's my agenda. And God right now has me in a place of quiet rest. And I'm expectant that He's going to teach me things in this place that I wouldn't learn if I didn't, in obedience, take the time to be still before Him. So I'm excited about that. Although it's hard. It's really hard. I'm always thinking of what's the next project? not yet. Not yet. God hasn't released me yet.

And so while I'm grateful that this book is coming out, even the release of this book looks different because I'm not doing all the things in my own strength that I would normally try to do.

Also, as you think about kind of as you're in this season of rest, but reflecting a little farther down the road, when this is all said and done, what do you want your legacy to be?

that I constantly kept my eyes on Jesus and that I wanted what I was involved in to only be what he told me to be involved in. I want my legacy to be one where people could then say, through it all, she trusted him.

Through every hardship, through every pain point, through every wound, she kept her eyes focused and trusted Jesus. If I can get to that point, and that's what I leave to my children, to grandchildren, to my readers, I will be satisfied.

As you wrap up our conversation, what do you want the listeners to take away as key insights from our conversation today?

There is nothing in your past that is so egregious that the God of redemption cannot use it. God never wastes your pain or your past. So bring it to him and let him do his healing and redemptive work. And for it, you will end up seeing beautiful sacred scars.

So where can our audience connect with you and purchase your book, a copy of Sacred Scars?

The easiest place to find me is at drmichelleb .com and there there's links to all the major book read tellers, my blogs, my podcasts, everything that we've got up and going for you.

That's great. Well, thank you so much, Michelle, for this time and blessings on your book, blessings on your sabbatical. Learn to just kind of sit in the quietness of God and listen to that still sweet voice of God as he speaks to you during this time.

Thank you, Keith. I appreciate you and your ministry.

Thank you.