People are motivated by different things. Some are motivated by money, some by acclaim and some by purpose. Most people probably have a blend of all three and the interplay might change from time to time.

This week we’re focusing on the passion people and I’m excited to be joined by the host of the Passion, Purpose and Personal brand show - Lisa McGuire.

Lisa's website : https://thediyframework.com/storyweb

Lisa McGuire is a certified personal brand strategist, business growth advisor, and founder of Your Passion, Purpose and Personal Brand podcast. Her love for knowledge led her to start her career in education and she went on to become one of the founders of a $20M startup. When Lisa realized her gifts no longer fit into someone else’s script, she took the leap to launch her own business in 2018. She is a strong believer in spending as much time as you can working in your zone of genius. Today, Lisa helps consultants and professional service providers do just that using her signature framework, The Difference Is You. They learn to build a personal brand of integrity by leveraging science-based concepts to create a compelling story. Lisa is married with two children and two grandchildren and lives in Atlanta, Georgia where she’s never too far from a grove of trees or the beach.

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Welcome to Amplify the Personal Brand Entrepreneur Show. Today on the show, Bob is speaking with Lisa Maguire. When you take that first step, the light starts shining on the next one. So you take that step and then the light starts shining on the next one and you take that step before you know it, you end up as I'm doing with my podcast. I look and this week is episode 20, and it seems like I just started last week. But you take one step at a time. You get messy. You understand that if it doesn't go right, it's a learning experience and it makes you more relatable to people.

Hi there. My name is Bob Gentle, and welcome to the Personal Brand Entrepreneurship, where every week I speak to incredible people who share what makes their business work. If you're new, then while you still have that device in your hand, take a second to subscribe. And if you're listening on Apple podcasts, tap the three dots in the bottom right hand corner and click Go to show, and then hit the plus icon in the top right hand corner of the screen. Apple couldn't possibly make that easier, but if you're listening on any other device, you could probably find a much more obvious subscribe button. And welcome to the family. Now, in my experience, people are motivated by different things, some by money, some by acclaim and some by purpose. But most of us have a blend of these three things, and maybe there are others I've forgotten about. But this week we're focusing on the passion people. And I'm really excited to be joined by the host of the Passion, Purpose and Personal Brand Show, Lisa McGuire. Lisa, welcome to the show.

Well, Bob, thank you so much. I have been so excited and looking forward to this conversation today. I can't wait to speak with you.

I've been looking forward to it for a long time as well because I think we've been vaguely connected on Instagram for quite a long time. And I've been watching what you've been doing. And the way that you approach personal branding, personal brand marketing, and that whole perspective on things is really nice. I think lots of people approach it in lots of different ways, but you have a really unique take on it. But for the listener who maybe doesn't know who you are, why don't you start just by telling us a little bit about who you are, where you are and the kind of work that you normally do?

Sure. I'd love to. So first of all, I am a certified personal brand strategist. I also help people figure out what it is that makes them different, how they can stand out in the marketplace, and some of the mindset things that are going on underneath that contribute to that. I am located in Atlanta, Georgia, so we have an international podcast going on here today, Bob, which I love. And the last thing is I work with people as a coach. I run a small group coaching programme dealing with personal branding, and then I do VIP sections as well for private consulting.

I think before I have a guest on the show, I often do a little bit of Googling around and snooping and being nosy. And I have to say, you're probably one of the most accredited people I've had on the show to talk about this certified. You are the brand expert working with Mike Kim. Been through all the Donald Miller stuff. Certified business, made simple coach. So this is someone you need to pay attention to. And I think this is why I wanted to have you on. Lots of people can talk about personal brand, but you've done the work to really understand it. So many people rock up and call themselves personal brand experts. I'll put my own hand up to that to an extent. But you also come loosely from working in academia, so you know how to know stuff. I guess that's where I put it.

Yes. And thank you for that, Bob, but I do want to put out there. It's both a blessing and a curse. I am a lifelong learner. I do come from academia. I collect College degrees as a hobby, but I just love learning. Now. I do want to caution people, though. Yes, the certifications are nice and you get the understanding of why things work, but it also can be something that you become addicted to. I'll take another course, I'll do another certification and it ends up holding you back from jumping in and just getting your hands dirty and doing it. So I have a true appreciation for people who are just willing to try it out and see what works. So thank you for that compliment. I really do want to bring excellence to my work, and that is one way I do it is I do commit to the training.

I think you're very correct to caution on seeking information as a potential pitfall when it comes to procrastination. Richie Norton is a friend of mine and one of the things that he is always saying is you will never have enough money, you will never know enough people, and you will never have enough information. These are the three things that people will often put off taking action based on. So knowing this, you need to take action anyway because you will never have enough. You will never meet an entrepreneur who tells you he knows enough. You'll never meet one that tells you has enough money, you will never meet one who says he has all the contacts he needs to take the next big step. But taking it anyway. And I think this is why the personal brand side of things for many people is so challenging. Because if you're the kind of business owner who is accustomed to hiding behind the corporate brand, you're not personally being judged by the actions that you take when you push the business out into the limelight, but you're very exposed, you're very vulnerable when it comes to personal brand marketing.

You feel personally judged by every interaction. And I think that's why a lot of people will procrastinate on it. So it's good to acknowledge the reasons people might procrastinate.

Well, I know them all.

So do I, because there's a reason I didn't start on this journey until I was comfortably into my mid 40s for all of those reasons. So what kind of client are you typically working with now?

The clients I'm working with now, what I have discovered is they have been in that corporate role. They jump out and decide, you know what? I'm going to create the life of my dreams. I want the freedom and flexibility. So they start out as an entrepreneur. And when you come from that, when you go on that journey, you are very confident. I worked with this company, I've got all this authority and they start into networking. And when they tell people what they do, that's fine. But then the next thing they do is they reference the company that they used to work for. And you know what? People may find that a bit interesting when they hear it once, but that can't carry you alone. So who I love working with are entrepreneurs who are either a couple of years in and realise that I need something different, or entrepreneurs who do what other people do and they need a way to stand out in the marketplace. They want to find, how do I find, how do I connect with those right clients? So people who absolutely know that they need something different, those are my favourite clients.

So one of the things that often comes up when people say, what is a brand? What is a personal brand? One of the common answers is what people say about you when you're not in the room. And I think the problem a lot of people have is they think they have a personal brand because they have a way of expressing who they are. But nobody's talking about them because a personal brand is one thing. But this whole thing, if a tree fell in the woods, you need to amplify that personal brand. You need to become visible. You need to become a visible leader. How do you help people step out from behind the desk where maybe the small people around them in their own organisation or maybe in their own community, know that he's a really great guy. He's great at what he does into building that much larger personal brand with a capital B?

Yeah, that's a really great question, Bob, and I want to allude back to something that you talked about before. When you're in a corporate setting, you do get to hide behind the brand of the company. And often you're told not to have a personal brand because you don't want to muddy the waters, you don't want to conflict with that. But I will tell you, and if I could tell it in a story, since I am a storyteller, I was in academia, so I was a founder of a private school in Atlanta, Georgia. And one thing is when you work for a school, there is the image of the school, there is the brand of the school. And you have to be very careful about what you say, that you don't do anything that conflicts with that. And so what I learned is I learned to silence my voice. And then when I left that situation, what happened is I no longer had my identity as one of the founders and one of the people on the leadership team. I had put so many hours into this that when I left this organisation, I remember waking up the next day and thinking, OK, who am I and what am I going to do?

So helping people figure out what is their voice. I find the secret to that is helping them to discover who they are. And we have not encouraged that with people. We spend our lives being told who we are rather than taking the time to discover it ourselves.

This is something that I struggled with for a long, long time. And it comes back, I think, to how I introduced you in the beginning, that some people are motivated by money, some people are motivated by a claim, and some people are motivated by mission or by purpose. And the way I look at this is a little bit like a Venn diagram or interlocking circles. And I know some people are very motivated by money, others are very motivated by acclaim and others. And I put myself in this perspective in this category. Rather, I'm motivated by purpose or by mission. I don't think it's very common for people to be Holy one or the other, but there is often a dominant and sometimes a very dominant. And I think until you can understand where you fall in that, it's very difficult to step out and bet on yourself. And I think particularly if you are somebody who's purpose driven, you may know you're purpose driven because you know you're not motivated by money and you know you're not motivated by a claim, but you may not know what that purpose is yet. And I think for a lot of people, that's really tough because if you haven't done the work to understand what really matters to you, it's going to be very difficult for you to do the work to build visibility that will actually lead to any kind of business success.

So how do you help people on that journey of unlocking what actually matters for them?

Yes, that is a really great point, Bob, of those three areas. And I also am, as you can tell by the name of my show, your passion, purpose and personal brand purpose does motivate me, and it has motivated me since the time I was a child. I recently saw a post on Instagram from someone who probably is late 30s, early forty s, and they talked about Simon Cynics find your why and how they had wasted ten years of their life searching for their why. But I think helping people find their purpose, it's one of the most gratifying things that I do in my work and we put so much pressure on it. But really helping them unpack and unravel, what are the experiences they've had in life? And many times it comes back to when they were a child. And one reason I love purpose does come back to when I was a child, when I was trying to figure out, okay, what is it that I'm here to do? What is my value to the world? And that's what we're discovering right now. A lot of people with what's happened over the last two to two and a half years is people have had time to pause to look around and say, is this what I want in my life?

So I take them on a journey that really starts looking at, okay, there are three different levels of stories that we tell. And if you're around me for very long, whether you have followed me before or you're going to follow me after, you're going to hear these over and over again, they've really become my mantra. But there's the stories we tell the world, the stories that we want people to think about us, right, what we put on social media. So the stories we tell the world, there's the stories we tell ourselves which are not always grounded in reality. You're not good enough to be on this. You're not ready to do this. And then the final level of story are the stories buried inside of our soul. And when you think about the stories buried inside of your soul, I look at those as the stories that live in your heart, the story that probably you have followed. If as a child, you've followed your yearning of your heart until people came in and told you, no, we don't do it that way. So helping people unravel those three levels, and I really look at them as three levels of selfawareness.

The world that we live in every day is the stories that we tell the world. The stories we tell the world is what we really work hard to put out there. And we also live in the stories we tell ourselves. Those are the stories that hold us back. So that's how I really help people is help them unravel this three levels of self awareness.

I think what I like about this is there's a process of alignment happening and this resonates very strongly with me. The stories that we tell the world, essentially this is in our space, marketing, communications. It's very simple. And I think this is how too many people approach building a personal brand is what I want people to think about me. I'm going to start putting out signals that make that seem true. And if that's not really in alignment with who you are, you're constantly going to be finding that difficult, and it's going to be really hard to sustain starting at the other end. The stories that are buried inside of you, what lights you up would be the easiest way I would put this. If you can really understand what lights you up and then work from that, it can then impact the stories that you tell yourselves. It shines a light on those. And then when you go out into the world and tell the stories, you're telling true stories and what you'll also find. And for me, this is, again, very, very important. It's going to allow a process of becoming because too many people think they're finished, they're finished growing, they're finished becoming.

For me, the process of building your personal brand is a process of understanding who you are and then having the courage to communicate it.

It is. Absolutely. And it's being willing to be vulnerable enough to share some of that. And what I had to overcome in that, Bob, and I know you and I probably lived in the same Lane, is understanding that you're doing it not for yourself. You're doing it for the people that you're serving. You're doing it for the audience who needs that encouragement.

Absolutely. And I think you're doing it for the work. In many respects, it's almost a mission in itself.

Absolutely.

And everything that subsequently flows from that be that, your business, your personal life, it's all one really. But for me, I guess that process that you described is the work, everything else, it simply flows from that. And I think too many people I'm not going to say too many people, because what's right for me is not necessarily right for everyone. There were people listening who come to this from the perspective of, I just need to make money, that's fine. This is probably not your path. There will be some who are saying, I just want everyone to think I'm fantastic. And again, this is probably not your path. But if you are somebody who's listening to this and thinking, I can't get out of bed in the morning unless I really feel I'm doing something good in the world, this is probably your path. And doing good in the world does not mean not making money. Let's be really clear about this. Every business has a value exchange, and if you're bringing value into the world, there are ways to be rewarded for that. It doesn't really matter what it is that motivates you. I guess you could probably speak to this better than I can.

Being purpose led does not mean being poor.

That is correct. And yes, I would love the opportunity to speak to that, because if you are driven primarily by money or if you are driven by being known, if you do take the time to figure out what is your purpose or what is your mission, why are you doing what you're doing? The money will follow because you'll be passionate about it. People are attracted to people who are excited. That's what makes you a magnetic personal brand is being excited about who you are and what you're doing and how you can show up in the world. And the significance comes from that as well. So I found for me personally when I started out in my business and of course, as a new business owner, you're looking for revenue. When I started leading with what can I do to close the sale? Or this is a potential client that I'd love to get their business. When I started putting money as the primary driver behind what I did, first, it didn't feel right. Second, it was a lot of hard work. And third, I think people sense it on the other side. It comes off as being desperate.

But when I backed away and I started having conversations with people about, what are you trying to do? What have you tried before? What problem are you experiencing? And I can help with that. When I led with helping them solve that pain and solve that problem, that's when the money started to flow.

That makes perfect sense. So there will be people listening who are thinking, okay, I get that. And in many respects, you could be forgiven for thinking, We've just given you another whole load of reasons to procrastinate on taking action, because now not only do you not have enough money or information or contacts, you also haven't done all the work to really understand who you are. So let's just head off to a mountaintop and do that instead. And one of the things that I found was that you learn in the movie, you only learn when you start moving. When you start taking action, the world reflects back to you. So if people want to start working on their personal brand, their personal brand stories, what suggestions would you have in order that people can start showing up in places where they maybe weren't before? Okay, you need to step out from behind the desk and start being visible. So what should be on the to do list?

Yeah. So I was as we've alluded to, I was the Queen of procrastination. I wasn't going to do something unless I knew it was was perfect. Now, really think about that. Do we want to follow people who are perfect? Probably not, because they're not relatable and nobody really is perfect. What you put out there and what's really happening behind the scenes are often two different things. But what I would encourage people to do is really I developed this mantra, and it's a saying by Eleanor Roosevelt that says, do something that scares you every day. It doesn't have to be going on video and starting a YouTube channel, but do one little thing and start messy. You don't have to start and have a linear fashion where you do step A, B and C. Just jump in and try something. And I did this a couple of weeks ago. I'm starting to experiment with Reals on Instagram. And how many takes of a video did it take before I was willing to post something? And I will tell you, I was on someone's podcast a couple of years ago and I had to do a promo.

I will tell you, it took probably almost 50 takes of a video before I was satisfied with something I would put into the world. And I started thinking, wow, you're wasting all this time. It's being crazy. You come off as very polished, which people tell me that that's kind of who I am, but it was too stiff. So what I want to encourage people is if you don't know how to do it, if you don't know where you're going, think about who it is you want to become. Think about the life you want to create. Think about what would that person be doing, what would they be saying, what is their character like? And start taking a line to action. What I discovered when I decided it was time to do what I wanted to do is I knew where I wanted to end up, but I didn't know how to get there. So I started with the one thing I knew I must have. I scheduled a personal brand shoot, right, because we know we're going to need photos. So I thought, okay, well, I'll have the photos when the time comes. And then what happens, Bob, is when you take that first step, the light starts shining on the next one.

So you take that step and then the lights start shining on the next one and you take that step. And they may not always be in order, but before you know it, you end up as I'm doing with my podcast. I look and this week is episode 20, and it seems like I just started last week. But you take one step at a time. You get messy. You understand that if it doesn't go right, it's a learning experience and it makes you more relatable to people.

I 100% agree with everything you said, and one thing in particular really sticks in my mind. I made a slightly tongue in cheek video on YouTube a few weeks ago, which was something along the lines of how to build a time machine for fun and profit. And it basically goes like this. If you want to achieve your dreams, step one is you need to have a really strong fantasy. And from that fantasy, consolidate it into a vision. And then from that vision will come a set of goals. From the goals, some projects that need to happen. And then those projects have tasks attached to them. And then every day start hitting those tasks and you will project yourself into whatever future it is that you imagined. And having a personal brand vision, I think, is a very clever tool, because if you can imagine it, you're not going to the moon here. You might imagine yourself as a wellknown, speaker and author, maybe somebody who's creating content on YouTube or a podcast. If you can imagine those things, trust me, you can achieve them because the steps are not very technical. They require a little bit of courage.

But what you'll find is even the very beginning steps. People are going to start noticing you, you're going to learn a lot about yourself, and you can achieve these things much more quickly than you would imagine. But having that vision, it's the fuel in the engine, really. I really like that.

And if you think about it, it's your purpose, it's your why it connects you back. Okay. This is the destination I can think of when I started my podcast. When I talk about do something that scares you every day. I intentionally scheduled my first interview with someone who is a podcast coach. Now, how crazy was that, Bob? I'm going to have my first interview with someone who teaches people how to do this. And he was not my podcast coach, so I was terrified going into it. But that pressure and the accountability forced me to do really great research, to have my questions prepared. It set a model that I follow today when I interview people for podcast. And what I will encourage your listener to understand is courage exists on the other side of fear. And if you just keep going, if you break through that fear, the wall is not as thick as you think it is. And that's when you find that courage. And that's when you find that exhilaration where you can look back at it and say, I really did this, and it wasn't as bad as I thought. It actually was kind of fun.

And the truth is, if it's not scary, you're not trying hard enough. Yeah, that's kind of the point. And everything you said, I would add to it that fear that you experience when you think about whatever the next step is for you. And it might be you're quite far along your personal brand business journey, but I've never really done any public speaking on the stage. And for me, I find that terrifying. But I've done enough terrifying things in my life that I know how to approach that it doesn't really matter what stage you're at. The things that you need to do are the things that scare you. This is your competitive advantage, to be blunt, because you're looking at a world of scary, that world of scary. If you go in there, your competitors will not follow you a lot of the time. And that is when your personal brand becomes the game changer for me, this is the most important thing that if you can go to that scary place, wherever it is for you, your competitors are not going to follow you. And excitingly. The only other people in there are the people who will motivate you, encourage you and be your friends for life, because fellow travellers in those scary places are very helpful.

They really are. And that scary place, that's what causes you to grow, that's what pushes you to level up, that's what creates the momentum. So I love the fact that even though you may be a little concerned about something that may or may not happen, when you really look at it, if it did happen, you and I are both here today, so we've been able to survive it, right?

Absolutely. And every day is a new challenge. What you said about do one thing every day that scares you, I think that should become a way of life. So what are you working on right now? What's the big thing in your business right now that you're working on?

Yes. So the big thing in my business is, as you talked about in personal branding and understanding who you are, we're never done. We are never done with that. As long as we are taking a breath, we should be growing. And so I came to this realisation of these three levels of stories, the stories we tell the world, the stories we tell ourselves and the stories that are buried inside of our soul. This is what I call doing the work. And so I have gone through this process. When I left that company and I lost my identity and had to figure out who I was while I was building my business, this was a process that I followed. And so what I'm doing now is I've created a programme. It's my signature framework. It's called The Difference Is You that does have these three different levels. The first one helps people create the stories they tell the world and who we think we show up, as is not always who other people see us as. So I have this ten week small group coaching programme. I've got one that will be starting here in a couple of months, starting up again in a couple of months.

And that is for the professional service provider, the coach, the consultant, the creative, the accountant, the attorney who really wants to be able to stand out in the marketplace with a compelling message that makes them a magnetic personal brand. When you complete that, or if that is what you need to have to get started, then you continue that journey if you choose to do so. And that is the next level of the difference is you. And that's looking at the stories we tell ourselves, the stories we tell ourselves when you do this work. And this was part of the training that I went to achieve has been one of the most life changing practises that I follow each day. It helps you become aware of the things that you tell yourself that are not grounded in reality. And it creates this mental fitness practise that when this saboteur shows up, you start laughing at me. Oh, you're here again. I was expecting you. You're not going to tell me that because I know better. And so it helps you overcome those hurdles. It helps your business to grow because you're not stuck in this story that you're telling yourself you're not worthy or it's not perfect enough.

So that's the second level of awareness in the differences you have. People choose to be part of that. And then finally, the third level is what I call your purpose leap. And that is the third level of the differences you is going in and discovering what is your purpose? What are the things that light you up? What is it that you've now reached a point in your life? And the ideal client who I see is showing up for this, Bob, are business owners who tend to be between 35 and 55. They've got a business, they're making money, but they want something more out of life. They're looking for significance. And so this last level of the difference is you does help them dig into what is your purpose? What is your zone of genius? What is the life's work that you want to be remembered for?

It sounds like a very well thought through programme. I applaud you for that, and I wish you all success with that.

Well, thank you so much. Thank you so much. I do it as a VIP one on one experience for people who really want to dig into those three levels. But for people who are just starting out on their personal brand journey, I recommend level one. It's a lot of fun to go through and to discover how you then put that out in your content, because that is one of the things that I find most of my clients are challenged with is, okay, I've developed this personal brand. How do I put it out on social media? How do I put it out in the world where it doesn't make me look like I'm talking about myself? Right. Because that feels a little slimy.

It does. It's really difficult. I don't know anybody that doesn't struggle with that. But I guess that's the work.

That's the work. That's the line that we must walk. And if you do it well, it comes off very well. And if you don't do it well, then you back up and you start telling yourself another story.

So I'm always curious to ask. We've spoken a lot about your zone of genius and the parts of your business that you do well. And I'm always curious, when I meet top performers, which part of their businesses they may be struggling with, where would that be for you, which part of your business do you look at and think, I wish I was doing this better, or I wish, frankly, somebody else would do it or that it didn't even exist?

Well, there are several areas that come to mind, Bob, but I think probably the one for me is the daily reminder of understanding that I can't help everyone. My heart is to help solve people's pain. And I have to understand there are people that are a great match for what I do. They're a great match for my price point. There are a great match for the offer that I create, and there are people that I need to lovingly say, it's probably not a great fit, but here's someone else that can help you. I think we all want to come in and feel like we can solve anyone's problem. But as we know, when we try to help everyone, we're really helping no one. And most of all, we're not helping ourselves.

It's always very difficult to send business away, especially if you've been in the business of I'm going to be crude having to kill what you eat.

Yes.

Then saying no to somebody, it's almost unnatural. So, yeah, I identify with that. Lisa, if people want to connect with you, if they want to go further with you, how can they find you?

Yes. So I'm active every day on Instagram, at least in my story. So you will find me at I am Lisa Maguire. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. I'm there quite often as well. My website is Lisamaguire.com and just reach out. I'd love to have a conversation and get to know a little bit more.

About you and what's one thing you do now that you wish you started five years ago.

Oh, immediately I know the answer to this, Bob, and it is my podcast. I did have a podcast a couple of years ago. I did it with another person, and we had different intentions for the podcast. So that was a very congenial ending of that podcast. But having this podcast now, I will tell you that I love having the conversations, and I'm going to get to have one with you later today. You're going to be on my podcast. So I can't wait to have that conversation. But I love knowing that I've connected with someone who is going to challenge to make me better, who is going to make me think differently about what I do and other people I can connect them with in the world. So definitely, hands down, for me, it was a podcast.

Well, I again Echo that for all of the same reasons I think a lot of people assume you do the podcast for the audience and for the listeners. And if you're listening, I appreciate you. But the relationships that I've built through the podcast have been life changing. And for me, that's the real secret power in the podcast. Lisa, you have been an awesome guest. I'm very grateful for your time. I have really enjoyed myself and yeah thank you so much for making time.

Well, thank you so much, Bob I can tell we're going to have lots more conversations. I think we are two souls cut from the same cloth. So I'll look forward to continuing that relationship and thank you so much for having me on the show. I just appreciate shape so much what you do. I have admired the way you build your personal brand and the consistency and work it requires. So thank you for putting your work into the world.

My pleasure. Thank you.