From Humane Society Director to Humane Agent to Trainer, Steffen Baldwin made his way through different animal welfare organizations leaving a path of destruction behind. But his greed and desire for fame eventually caught up to him when he met with people willing to stand up to him and hold him responsible for his actions.

This episode explores Steffen's failures as a trainer for Save Them Dogs, his attempts to be on Animal Planet, and theft from donors and non-profits. It all comes full circle as we go back to Remi's story and his Escape to LA.

Your support helps us continue this work. Please take a moment to like, rate, and share so we can extend our reach. Together we can help animals and the people who care for them.

Dr. G:

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Hi, and welcome to the

Animal Welfare Junction.

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This is your host, Dr.

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G, and our music is written

and produced by Mike Sullivan.

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We are almost there.

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This is Season One, State

versus Stefan Baldwin, Episode

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Dr G AI: Ten, Escape from Ohio.

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In this episode, we're going to be

doing a lot of jumping back and forth

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because there was just so much stuff.

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And to be perfectly clear,

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everything on this podcast is probably

not even 3% of all the things that he did.

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It's just details to let people know about

the different things that he was doing.

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So we are going to learn a little

bit more about what he did as he was

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starting to go towards the end and

eventually fled to LA, Fled to California.

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And then what happened after he

got arrested while he was there.

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Dr. G:

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as we know, as you can probably

tell, Stefan was really

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about making money, right?

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It was about fame, money,

getting some girls, and.

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Act was not really making

him that much money.

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It was giving him notoriety.

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People knew who he was and he

was getting more and more famous.

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He pulled these aggressive dogs

from all over the place, but he was

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just not really monetizing much.

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So then that led him to

start doing other things.

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Specifically he created an organization

that was supposed to be a board

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and train called Save Them Dogs.

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With saving dogs.

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Her, his whole idea was that he was going

to get paid by either rescue groups to

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send them animals that were deemed not.

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I say not adoptable.

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And then he was going to do his magic

and he was going to make it so that

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these dogs could be placed in new homes.

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And then he even extended the

service to offer it to people

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that had animals at home.

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Like they had their own pets that

they could not manage and he was

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going to make them the perfect pet.

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But unfortunately, he's

just not a good trainer.

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He's not a trainer at at all.

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Definitely not a behaviorist.

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So these ventures.

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Even though they made 'em money, they

really did not bring in much success.

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Alright.

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Let's talk about Titan.

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Jenny Falvey: Okay.

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Some of these were just, when I would

read them, it was just so shocking.

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Dr. G:

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Right.

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Jenny Falvey: That, how could

you, I mean, it, it was just,

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I couldn't even believe it.

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Dr. G:

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I know.

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And, and it's like I say, like he

was, he was really good at lying

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at about saying this happened and

making it sound like matter of fact.

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Yes.

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And then you see all of the,

all of the texts and all those

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things that were sent and shared.

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Yeah.

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And it's like, this never happened,

you know, it was like Absolutely.

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Total.

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Yeah.

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Made up.

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Olivia Williams: My husband

got Titan when he lived in

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Oklahoma before he moved to Ohio.

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Um, he got in when he was in college.

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Him along Diesel.

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Um, I met Titan in 2013

when I met my husband.

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And up until right before I contacted

Steffen, everything was great with him.

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He just,

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once I got pregnant, it just made

him a little bit nervous, is all.

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Okay.

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So that was, was there an issue with

Titan in your home after you got pregnant?

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I just knew that he would be comfortable

not having all of the changes.

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He just liked it being us and

there was, there was no issues.

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Um.

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I just knew, I mean, all I ever

heard was these wonderful, marvelous

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things about asked Steffen and

being able to help anxious dogs.

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So that's why I reached out to him.

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Dr. G:

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Let, let's start by talking about

the expected behavior changes

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that a dog undergoes when like

an owner becomes pregnant.

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Jenny Falvey: Yeah, so I think,

you know, I, I always felt dogs

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know a woman is pregnant before

the woman knows they're pregnant.

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You know, they sense that, and it

would be natural to see a dog again

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to change some of their behavior.

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So they might become more, uh, sort of

protective of the, of the woman, uh, maybe

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positioning themselves in front of them.

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They might get a little bit barker when

people pass by the house or act a little

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different when people come to the house.

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So it's not uncommon, but, you

know, we really emphasize to do

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lots of, lots of trainers do sort

of a baby preparation program.

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Um, and then oftentimes you have more

people coming to the house and that

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can throw a dog off because everyone

wants to come and visit the baby.

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So there's a lot of things that

occur that create just a, a really

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tough time for dogs when a baby

comes, the first baby at least.

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Olivia Williams: Did Titan

have a biting incident?

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He did.

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Um, when I dropped Titan off at my

brother-in-law's house, um, we told

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him not to get in's face because

he's just been acting a little bit

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nervous towards me when I'm pregnant.

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And now after researching, I

know that dogs can sit, dogs can

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sense when you're pregnant and

sometimes it just confuses them.

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Um, so we dropped him off there and

we told him to don't get in his face.

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And Titan knows those people very well.

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I was in church and got a call that

he nipped the girlfriend in the nose.

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And he had nipped me in the nose as

well, and I'm trying to remember a

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decade ago, but I, I believe he nipped

me in the nose when we left from

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picking him up from that incident.

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So that's when I reached out to

Steffen and was given the whole

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deal of, it takes a while, there's

a waiting list, it's a process.

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And I said We are willing to wait

because he does not deserve to die.

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And we were willing to do whatever

we needed to do to make sure that

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we put Titan in the most calm

atmosphere that we could do for him.

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Dr. G:

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So in, in this case, you know, they

were concerned about the, the dog's

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behavior and the dog was becoming

aggressive bit somebody and they

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made the difficult decision that

they needed to place the dog to, to

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find training and that kind of stuff.

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And I can see it both ways.

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You know, it's like, for me

personally, I take on the

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responsibility of having the dog.

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So the dog is forever,

so I gotta figure it out.

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Yeah.

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But I also understand that we cannot

put ourselves in danger and we

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cannot put our children in danger.

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Right.

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So I, you know, I'm not passing

judgment on their decisions.

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Um, yeah.

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But then, you know, once step,

once Steffen took over Titan, he

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made some really bad decisions.

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So from the report that you received,

what were the things that he did

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that shouldn't have happened?

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Jenny Falvey: Well, so one of the first

things that stood out was after he arrived

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at his at Stefan's place, just three

days later, knowing this dog had a bite

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history, he took him to an adoption event.

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This was posted on Facebook.

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So you have a dog who has a bite history.

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Um, he just lost his home.

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He was already, you know, everything

had changed in his world with a baby.

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He's lost his home.

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He is coming to this new place, and now

I'm gonna take you in public to meet

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all these people at an adoption event.

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Um, right there, that's just, I, I can't

even wrap my head around it, of what

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an individual would be thinking to take

that dog and put them in that situation

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again, knowing there's a bite history.

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So we don't even know what truly,

you know, motivated that bite.

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So that was number one.

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The, the thing that stood out,

like, oh my gosh, there was no

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time to adjust for this dog.

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And we're, we're not even investigating

what really did occur and what's

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this dog's behavior because just

because somebody says, you know,

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well, my dog, there was a bite.

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Okay, but what actually

happened with that?

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You know, was it specific to a

person, specific to a trigger?

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There's clearly nothing established.

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Um, there was never anything established

other than she had told him there

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was a sensitivity to the face.

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And then I think about adoption events.

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I've been at many of them.

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What do people do?

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They pet them on the head, pet them on the

face, the cheeks, you know, everything.

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So that, yeah, that was definitely,

um, a huge, huge concern.

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Um, they also, um, then I saw, you

know, he introduced him to dogs

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within a week of being at the shelter.

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So.

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No time.

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You know, we've, because if you even

thought the three days was decompression,

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you took him to an adoption event.

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So now that just throws everything off.

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And so now you're now putting this

dog in another situation in which

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he's having to meet other dogs.

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Um, that, hmm, didn't, didn't look good.

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Um, I could find nothing that he found.

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And I mean, when I see dogs

that have sensitivities to the

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face, my first thing is medical.

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WW is there, is there something

medically wrong with the dog?

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Is there ears, teeth, something?

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You know, we need to get them

to the vet and have a full exam.

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Dr. G:

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Um, Stefan brought Titan into the hospital

to have an examination to see if he

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had any kind of facial sensitivity, and

from the exam we did not see anything.

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But the veterinarian that looked at

him recommended putting him under

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sedation, doing a x-rays or a CT

of his face and that kind of stuff.

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And that was never done, so.

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Oh, okay.

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You know, it's like, okay, the

dog was touchy about his face.

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We don't know if it was pain or if it was,

I mean, the dog had had snapped at people.

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Maybe he was getting beat on the face,

you know, maybe he was getting hit.

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Right, absolutely.

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There's just different things.

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Exactly.

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So we don't know what, I know that

there wasn't anything obvious, but

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nothing was, you know, research

as far as Does he have sensitivity

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Jenny Falvey: Okay.

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I swear this is the one he placed,

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Dr. G:

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he placed it in the house with

the woman, with the little child.

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Jenny Falvey: Yes.

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So then in addition to that, because there

was a bite to a child, he then puts the

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dog into a home with someone with a child.

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Uh, and these people were not equipped to

handle a dog with this type of history.

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I mean, no owner to my, in my opinion

as a, from a shelter perspective, if

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you have a dog with a bite history,

this should never be, you don't send

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this dog out to a home in particular

with one with a trigger expecting

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these people to be responsible for the

behavior modification for this dog.

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Um, this is a dog that one should

have had extensive medical, um, exams

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done, potentially, uh, you know,

a, a veterinary behaviorist to see

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if this is something that is even

safe, you know, safe for placement.

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But instead he set him up and put

him in these situations that just

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caused this dog to have more episodes.

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Dr. G:

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Yeah, and it's.

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We, we don't know exactly what

happened with the bite, uh, if the,

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if the kid was even bit to begin with.

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Correct.

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Jenny Falvey: Right.

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Dr. G:

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But one of the things that, that come

to mind is that, you know, like with

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Remy, Lisa and Angelo are people that

are experienced in dealing with dogs

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that need behavior modifications and need

to work through all of these, figuring

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out triggers and that kind of stuff.

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Yes.

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So it's really irresponsible

to just give this dog to.

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A foster, like a general

foster person mm-hmm.

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That the dog needs worked with.

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And these people do not have any

kind of training in how to deal

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with, with these situations.

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Jenny Falvey: Right.

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And that's, you know, we can't

expect someone that has no

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experience to deal with a dog who

has a potential aggression issue.

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They don't have the experience,

they don't likely have the timing

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and the understanding of it.

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Not to their fault, but it's so

irresponsible, you know, to, to think that

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someone else could just step in and do it.

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It's not, um, I can't see

any good success, successful

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situations that come out of that.

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But yeah, I mean he, this was just

a significant, this was just a

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normal pattern of what we saw was

just placing these dogs into homes

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that were not suitable for them.

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Yeah.

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Just to get them out.

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Dr. G:

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Yeah.

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Setting them up for failure to begin

with and then blaming the people because

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Yes, that's another thing that we saw

is he would constantly say, I have

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to go pick up so and so back because

these people are idiots and they're

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not doing the proper decompression.

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They're not doing what I told them

to do, even though he would just dump

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'em and not tell them what to do.

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So it's not even like he gave them

instructions and they didn't follow it.

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It was like, that's right.

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Touch

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Jenny Falvey: this

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Dr. G:

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dog.

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Have fun.

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Jenny Falvey: Right.

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And there was an absolutely nothing

given to these people to help them.

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And yeah.

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And I, uh, it's a pet peeve when I see

shelters that just bash the adopters

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when it's like, well, wait, they're not,

they're not, they're not meant to know.

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Olivia Williams: What, if

anything, did you say to Stephan

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about putting Titan down?

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What were your wishes about that?

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Please don't put him down.

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Um, and I was told that out of 250 cases,

he's only ever put three dogs down.

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And I knew that my dog's case was mild,

so it never even crossed my mind that

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that would be even remotely thought about.

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Did you sign anything about

transferring ownership over of Titan

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over to Steffen Baldwin or Act Ohio?

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Absolutely not.

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What, if anything, did Steffen

say about updates about Titan?

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He said that he would gimme updates and

at some point in time he said that he

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likes to affect privacy of the people.

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He said I would do my best to give

you updates, but I like to respect the

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privacy of the people that adopt the dog.

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I was just telling all sorts of people

in rescue how excited I was that Stephan

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stepped up to help me and that he really

wanted to help me and help my dog.

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Out of all the dogs in the

world, my dog is on the way.

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His off the waiting list finally.

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I mean, it was like a huge

accomplishment, I thought.

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Did you get correspondence

or hear from him about Titan?

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On occasion, he would respond to

me and then started to make me

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feel like I was a bother because.

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The text messages were either non

existent or they, or the emails

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were non-existent, or it would be

very short, like, I'm busy, but he's

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timid or something along those lines.

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It never was like he cared

about the people that were

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dropping their animals off.

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Didn't ask.

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Like I, I felt like I dropped off a

child and he never wanted to answer me.

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And then he told me he

went to a foster family.

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And then he told me why I kept asking.

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He kept asking, he kept

asking for updates.

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He told me that the foster was

scared of him and returned him.

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Um, and then after that he told me that

he's with another foster family and that

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they adopted, I asked for pictures and

he even was far as to tell me he was

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gonna ask his new mom, um, for a picture.

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But that was after he was already dead.

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So I never got that picture.

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And so, do you know how long

you asked Stepan Baldwin

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for information about Titan?

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Well, I know off and on for over a year.

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Um, but I remember a specific

post I commented on Facebook.

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And I said, it's been over a year,

please give me an update on my dog.

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And that's after repeated.

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I thought maybe posting on a public

forum would make him realize that

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he hasn't responded to me, um, and

multiple emails and text messages,

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and I never would get a response.

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How did you find out that Titan was dead?

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Mr.

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Conroy reached out to me and

said, are you the owner of Titan?

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Can you give me a call?

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And I was freaking out.

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I mean, I have no idea what

to think at this point.

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I, what my thoughts did don't

really matter at this point,

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but I was like, oh my gosh, did

Steffen start a dog fighting ring?

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Like I no idea what to even think, but I

didn't, not one time did I think he wanted

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me to call because my dog was killed.

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Um, that's definitely

not, so that crossed me.

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And did you have any information

about when Titan was euthanized?

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Do you know, know when it happened?

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I, uh, I don't dunno the date in front

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had my dog for less than two months.

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Did you ever see any posts on

social media that have worked

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or trained or rehab Titan?

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No, not at all.

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Did you receive any texts or

any emails, anything that would

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indicate that Steffen Baldwin ever

worked with Titan about his issues?

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No, ma'am.

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Do you believe that, uh, Steffen

Baldwin gave your dog a, a fair chance?

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Did Titan have a fair chance?

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No, he didn't have a fair chance.

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Dr. G:

335

Unfortunately in Titan's case,

Titan ended up being euthanized.

336

In the other case, those dogs were

able to go back to their mom, but

337

they, they definitely went back broken.

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Angela Donnegan: I followed him on social

media for a while and then contacted him

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about, um, potentially training my dogs.

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I thought he was amazing.

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Um, he was doing amazing

things with aggressive dogs.

342

Um, and I was very hopeful

that maybe he could help us.

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we have an 11-year-old English bulldog.

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Her name is Bella.

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We have a 10-year-old English bulldog.

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Her name is Lily.

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They had become, um, quite

aggressive with each other.

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We adopted Bella in 2013, and at

that time she was guesstimating

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around eight months old.

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And then we adopted Lily in, um, the

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and, um, they were completely

like a, basically a inseparable

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until, um, the end of 2015.

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We did fostering for a bulldog rescue

and at that time the rescue had

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asked us to bring in, um, a male.

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Bulldog, his name was Mo.

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He was five years old.

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So we did, um, bring him in to Foster and

when we brought him in, we did what we

358

always did with a gradual introduction.

359

Um, the dogs, Bella and Lily separately

were fine with Mo, but when we put the

360

three of them together, Bella and Lily

immediately started fighting and it just

361

escalated from that point to the point

where they could no longer be together.

362

They're both, if they're not together,

they're the most loving, gentle dogs

363

you will ever meet in your life.

364

They're little babies, but

get 'em together and they

365

just wanna fight each other.

366

Dr. G:

367

what Lily and Bella are experiencing is

something very similar to a condition,

368

better known as sibling rivalry.

369

So even though they were not

litter mates, they were really

370

close in age, both female.

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And once they reached that,

social maturity, there is this

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aggression to determine who is

like above in their hierarchy.

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So it is something that requires

really, really intensive,

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like behavior modification.

375

And unfortunately in a lot of cases you

cannot get them to where they can coexist.

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Um.

377

Calmly with each other.

378

It is fairly common that these

dogs end up having to be crate

379

rotated, that the owners have to,

you know, keep 'em separate, uh,

380

spend time with them individually.

381

And these dogs are often really,

really sweet and nice with the

382

owners and even with other dogs.

383

It's just this particular dog

that they have developed this

384

aggression with they are going

to have a problem moving forward.

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Angela Donnegan: It started, um, at

386

Stefan, it was, I believe July of 2016.

387

Um, I think it was um, save Them Dog

Training or something similar to that.

388

I just contacted him directly.

389

It was really bad.

390

Between the two of 'em it was frightening.

391

Um, it was awful.

392

Ultimately I would've loved it if

we could get back to where we were,

393

but, um, at the end of the day, we

just wanted to be able to have the

394

dogs co-exist in a room together.

395

Um, so that, 'cause you know, we were

living our lives separately basically.

396

'cause we, you know, my husband would be

with one dog, I would be with another.

397

And so it would've been nice if

we could have all been together.

398

Um, so even if we couldn't get

things exactly the way they were,

399

we would've liked to have been

able to coexist in a room together.

400

The first thing he did was he did come

to our house and, um, assessed the dogs

401

and, um, ask a lot of questions and

kind of got information on the dogs.

402

I remember I, he did one visit, um, and

then he came back and did a second visit.

403

And at that time he, um, brought one of

his training dogs with him, Bullwinkle,

404

so he did two home visits like that.

405

Um, and then after the second he

said it was probably best to do.

406

Um, some one-on-one training with

them individually at his house.

407

Ultimately we were real okay

with that because we agreed that

408

that's kind of what they needed.

409

Prosecutor, Melissa Chase, Esq.:

410

And where was the one-on-one

training going to take place?

411

Angela Donnegan: At his home.

412

We agreed upon $350 a week.

413

He was just gonna work with the dogs.

414

Um, initially it was kind of a let's,

I'll take 'em and we'll see what happens.

415

Um, but um, we were all optimistic that

there could be some sort of resolution.

416

Dr. G:

417

So Angela sends Lily first to

go stay at Stefan for this.

418

Basically what's considered board

and train, which me personally,

419

side note, I hate, board and train.

420

like a good trainer, a good behaviorist

trains you on how you should take care

421

of your pet, not taking them away so you

have no idea how things are progressing.

422

And then as expected,

she's sending him messages.

423

She's asking how Lily is doing, and

he is giving this A plus plus report.

424

He is just basically talking about all

the great things that he's doing and all

425

the great things that Lily is doing, how

well she is advancing with her behavior.

426

Angela Donnegan: How's Lily tonight?

427

Stefan said, oops, missed this.

428

She's good.

429

I'm going to do some leash walking with

another dog slash trainer this afternoon.

430

And I said, has she been able

to be out of her cage much?

431

And he said, oh yes.

432

She's only in it when I'm gone.

433

She has the kitchen and laundry

room, which opens up to the

434

backyard and that side yard.

435

She's not in the crate.

436

It's just an additional barrier to make

sure the baby gate doesn't get pushed

437

open into add space for safety, but still

let them see each other into parentheses.

438

I asked has she been aggressive at all?

439

And he said as we transition, having

her crate trained around might

440

be a good thing for your house.

441

Just to avoid those oops situations.

442

She gets really excited.

443

When my dogs get really excited, I

wouldn't call any of it aggression though.

444

And I said, okay, cool.

445

Sounds like she's doing good.

446

And he saw, I'm really proud

of her and I said, yay.

447

Dr. G:

448

One major red flag, and for her, I'm

449

But a huge red flag was the fact that

she wanted to go visit Lily and see how

450

she was doing because she missed her.

451

This is like her daughter,

and he was thinking that that

452

was not such a good idea.

453

Angela Donnegan: I had asked one time

early on if I could come visit her and he

454

said it wouldn't be a good idea to come.

455

To the house.

456

Um, 'cause it may cause

some regression for her.

457

Um, and I had talked about maybe, um,

'cause at the time I was also doing

458

some, um, teaching for the acute care

program at Wright State and I was

459

doing clinical site visits on students.

460

And um, I had a student in Columbus

and so I had mentioned, well, I'm

461

gonna be in Columbus if you would

want to, um, be willing to meet

462

maybe somewhere just so I could see

her because I mean, I missed her.

463

And, um, I don't think that ever happened.

464

I don't know.

465

I don't remember why, if it

was, why we didn't meet, but I

466

don't think it ever happened.

467

Speaker: This back and forth

keeps going on for a few months.

468

And then finally, it's time

to swap out Lily for Bella,

469

because Lily's training has gone

fantastically well according to him.

470

And so now it's time to give Bella the

same type of training so that hopefully

471

they can work on putting them together.

472

Prosecutor, Melissa Chase, Esq.:

473

How did Lily come home?

474

How did that happen?

475

Angela Donnegan: We met in a

parking lot in, um, I took her home

476

Prosecutor, Melissa Chase, Esq.:

477

How did Lily transition

back into your home?

478

Angela Donnegan: She

was a little different.

479

She seemed, um, I guess I expected

her to be super happy and excited is

480

we, like we were for her to be home,

but she seemed pretty withdrawn.

481

And um, the one major thing I can

kind of remember that sticks out

482

is she had started, um, urinating

in the house, um, even on our bed,

483

which is multiple times, which is

something she had never done before.

484

Hey, I need some advice on Lilly.

485

She's been, since she's been home,

she's peed on my bed three times.

486

She's never done that before.

487

What the hell is going on with her?

488

Why would she start doing

all this all of a sudden?

489

I can deal with a lot,

but that's too much.

490

And he said, who sleeps

in your bed normally?

491

And I said, him and her dog.

492

And he said all.

493

Dr. G:

494

So my primary concern when I have a

dog, especially an adult dog that has

495

never had urinary problems, that has

not had accidents inside of the house,

496

is always, let's rule out medical.

497

Let's rule out if she has a urinary tract

infection, if she has metabolic problem,

498

diabetes, something like that, like

something medical to which immediately Dr.

499

Stefan says it's not

medical, it's behavioral.

500

Angela Donnegan: Lily needs to be created

more if she's going to act out like that.

501

I'm not sure why she's doing it unless

it's to reclaim her house with Bella gone.

502

But it is a behavioral choice she's

making, because she knows not to,

503

and it, it's not a medical issue.

504

So her choices need to be limited

until she can make the right ones.

505

Dr. G:

506

The fact that he was so sure that it was

behavioral lets me to believe that he

507

understands this behavior is secondary

to what has been going on in his home.

508

So it can be secondary to

undue stress and anxiety.

509

Also, it can be due to being in a cage

all the time, being in a crate, being in

510

a filthy environment, potentially sitting

in a crate and urinating on herself.

511

So, you know, basically all of the potty

training that they did to get her to where

512

she was at, completely out the window.

513

Angela Donnegan: He said, Shay's the most

headstrong dog I've ever worked with.

514

Haha.

515

I think the best thing would be for

me to pick Lily up and bring her here.

516

Dr. G:

517

So after a few months of having Bella,

now it's time for him to bring Lily

518

over so that he can start working on

the reintegration of the two of them.

519

Now, one thing to consider

is the fact that that would

520

not be in their home, right?

521

We want to make sure that they can

be together in their home, that

522

there are no stressors, no triggers.

523

So he's going to do all of this work

with them at his home in including

524

the fact that there are all these

other dogs that are gonna increase

525

the level of anxiety and stress.

526

Angela Donnegan: how did Lily

settle in being back there?

527

He said amazing.

528

I said, have her and

Bella seen each other?

529

And he said, ha ha.

530

Oh yeah.

531

And I said, and question mark, was it bad?

532

And he said, as expected, LOL.

533

Prosecutor, Melissa Chase, Esq.:

534

Alright, so October 14th, 2016.

535

What is your comment to them?

536

Angela Donnegan: Hello?

537

Have the girls kissed in, made up yet?

538

How a girl can dream, right?

539

He said, ha, ha, ha.

540

They stare less intently at each other.

541

Lily is doing better than Bella,

but Lily had more training to.

542

I'm still optimistic until

you tell me otherwise.

543

And I'm in it for as long as it takes.

544

I picked up two extra overtime shifts a

month from now until the end of the year.

545

Just in case you need a little

more time than expected.

546

I just can't stand the thought

of giving none of them up.

547

Prosecutor, Melissa Chase, Esq.:

548

So we are at November 7th.

549

Is it your belief based upon the

text message that, that you've

550

been receiving that the Lily

and Bella are making progress?

551

Angela Donnegan: Yes.

552

Prosecutor, Melissa Chase, Esq.:

553

Did you actually get to spend time

with one of the, one of the dogs?

554

Angela Donnegan: He felt that it

was not a good idea since they were

555

making progress, um, to kind of bring

me in the picture since I was one

556

of the resources they were guarding.

557

He said, I think they need a

lot more of this together time.

558

It gets better and better each time,

but I also think that if I came over and

559

set your house up, you could manage them

safely and do the same work I'm doing now.

560

This was the first day, there was

no tension at all when I put them

561

together, but I also exercise them

first so they're nice and calm.

562

I give them dog cannabis treats,

totally legal and essential oils

563

to help them calm their minds.

564

Also, I did have to get the

taser out once in the beginning.

565

They both hate the sound and that

aversive tool helps them make the

566

right decisions when they see it out.

567

Dr. G:

568

Yes,

569

you heard it right.

570

He just acknowledged to the owner that

he used a taster out on them enough that

571

they hate the sound of this aversive tool.

572

So he's aware that it's an aversive

tool, but it makes them help the

573

right decisions when they see it.

574

I.

575

Angela Donnegan: These are just two very

stubborn dogs, and of course both bitches,

576

I'll hate to say it, but hitting

that button will stop them both in

577

their tracks if they try to go at it.

578

Just the noise.

579

I only have to do it once with them.

580

When I first started to bring

them together, then one time

581

I just had to motion towards

it and Bella changed her mind.

582

Haha.

583

Prosecutor, Melissa Chase, Esq.:

584

Did the two dogs interact when

they came back to your home?

585

Angela Donnegan: At first they didn't.

586

Um, Bella or, um, Stef had told us we

needed to have them home and separate,

587

um, until they kind of got used to

being home and the smells of each other

588

and just being home and settling in.

589

And so we did.

590

Um, and then after a while we

did, um, he had told us that

591

initially we should just put Cage.

592

Put them in a cage in the same

room, kind of how he was doing it.

593

Dr. G:

594

So after having Bella and Lily back at

their home for several weeks and doing all

595

the steps that Stefan had said they needed

to do to be able to reintegrate them,

596

they decide to have Bella's on a leash.

597

Walk her towards crate.

598

And Angela is so excited about this

reunion, this, this ability for them to

599

kind of be civil with each other, with

the safety of a crate that she recorded

600

the interaction, she was hopeful that

she was gonna be able to tell people,

601

look how great my dogs are doing.

602

Uh, we are going to hear the audio

from this interaction and I wanna

603

warn you, it is, it, it's bad.

604

Prosecutor, Melissa Chase, Esq.:

605

Come on.

606

Come on.

607

Don't at the pool.

608

No.

609

Good girl.

610

Bella.

611

Lily.

612

Come here, Lily.

613

Good girl.

614

Bella girl.

615

Lily.

616

Come on.

617

Okay.

618

No, put your on the seat.

619

Oh.

620

Oh.

621

Come.

622

Oh God.

623

Dr. G:

624

This is just such dangerous

and irresponsible behavior.

625

He was not qualifying or trained or

capable of dealing with a problem that

626

quite honestly probably doesn't even

have a a solution, but he gave them hope.

627

He took their.

628

Money.

629

She had three jobs.

630

She was taking on extra shifts to

be able to pay him, for him to most

631

likely just leave these dogs on a

crate all day, not doing anything.

632

And in the end, Lily got hurt

and her husband got hurt.

633

He required surgery, she

required, um, veterinary care.

634

So it's just so ridiculous

the, the harm that he caused

635

to people and their animals.

636

And of course, directing blame, it's

because she did not get the taser.

637

Angela Donnegan: He said, were they

able to stop with a verbal correction?

638

I said, Nope.

639

And he said, do you have the taser?

640

I said, no, I didn't order that

until last week, and it won't

641

be here until January 3rd.

642

I do have their shock collars that I

could put on them and use the vibration

643

and noise and just not shock them.

644

Uh, I, oh, see, they know you

don't have the upper hand for now.

645

I'd say yes until it gets here.

646

I don't know if the vibrations

will be enough, but they do need

647

to know that you have an aversive

tool to stop them from fighting.

648

At what point do you actually use it?

649

Did either of them get the, get the

experience of it, meaning the zap?

650

He said the sound.

651

For sure.

652

I never had to touch a dog with it, but

that red zone they get into can't happen.

653

It jogs their memory and the old

behavior starts right up again.

654

It's far better to do all positive

training, but have the quickest

655

aversive tool to stop them from

losing their shit the second

656

they start to get into that mode.

657

Then them knowing you have

that upper hand checks them.

658

Dr. G:

659

So this is a lie, right?

660

Because she is flat out asking,

did you use the taster on them?

661

And he said that he never actually used

it, that he didn't touch him with it.

662

But before he did say

that he just used them.

663

The one time used it the one time.

664

And then after that, just hearing the

sound that would make him run away.

665

A dog is not just going to hear the

sound of the, of the taster or the

666

vibration and immediately know that

this thing is going to send all these

667

vaults of electricity through me.

668

So just him trying to all of a sudden

say, well, no, I don't use it, but

669

you have to have an aversive with you.

670

That makes absolutely no sense.

671

Prosecutor, Melissa Chase, Esq.:

672

What was the cost of

the training for them?

673

Angela Donnegan: It was $350 a week, so I

think it was a little over $5,000 maybe.

674

Roughly

675

I had to work a lot.

676

I picked up, you know, I had

the three jobs and then I also

677

picked, just picked up extra at

my work whenever I was able to.

678

I was disappointed.

679

I don't feel like we, um, got

the results that we were led

680

to believe were happening.

681

Dr. G:

682

You have heard a lot about, he

wanted to be on a show, he wanted

683

to be on Animal Planet, and some

of that was actually correct.

684

There was back in 2014.

685

We met with a producer and she

made kind of like a quick intro

686

about the work that we were doing.

687

Basically showcasing what he was

doing on the field and then how I was

688

taking care of the animals afterwards.

689

And it was really nice

and she was very excited.

690

But something came along.

691

He got a hold of a producer at Lionsgate

and Lionsgate, you know, to him that was

692

so much better than this other production

company that was doing smaller shows to

693

him, Lionsgate was the road to fame, so

he ditched this other person and then

694

went with Lionsgate to look into it

and went as far as recording a pilot.

695

Det. Jim Conroy:

696

I wanna say he was getting

contacted in May, just based

697

off of things he had stated.

698

So prior to that, he was having

people reach out to him to

699

write for the Huffington Post.

700

Now they wrote, they read what he wrote.

701

Now they wanna do a TV show on him.

702

Eight production companies

offered him contracts.

703

He signed at least four, I think five,

but at least four contracts to do shows

704

with production companies of which

three were pitched to Animal Planet.

705

And I believe one was pitched in that Geo.

706

And I always used to wonder like,

what if he really got that show?

707

Dr. G:

708

Now, originally he had said again

that they were going to primarily

709

be discussing about the work that

we were doing, but he didn't.

710

Again, that was not enough for him.

711

So he went and sought out other

individuals that were higher profile.

712

You know, he, he went after Gordon

Shell, he went after Katie Nelson,

713

and all of a sudden this show takes

a completely different direction.

714

And for the pilot, he takes Lion's gate on

trips that involve sneaking into people's.

715

Um, like suspected animal abuse

location and then spying on them

716

with drones, which is not legal.

717

You have to have a warrant for that.

718

So that right there would've

just completely destroyed this.

719

We have discussed about the death of

his ex-girlfriend, Shelby Grabor, and.

720

He, he blamed a lot of his bad decisions

on how sad he was about her death.

721

However, on the day that she passed, um,

I sent him a text saying that, you know,

722

if I was really sorry about the loss of

his friend, he did not reply for a couple

723

hours, and then his reply was like, Hey,

I am hanging out with the Lionsgate people

724

and we're coming to the, your clinic.

725

Looking back, I think about all the things

that happened and I question myself about.

726

How did I not see things?

727

But then when I look at the

timeline, everything happened

728

in such a short period of time.

729

Everything was really, really fast.

730

And if you recall with our, uh,

interview with Maya Badham she

731

said that these people are really

good and they just accelerate these

732

relationships with people, whether it

be romantic or business relationships.

733

Everything just moves

really, really, really quick.

734

And it's like.

735

You just don't know

even know what hit you.

736

So in the middle of all of these things

happening, he comes to me and talks

737

about how he fundraised hundreds of

thousands of dollars for the Union

738

County Humane Society, which we've

heard that that was not correct.

739

Um, and he says about doing this

event called the Art of Act.

740

The Art of Act was going to be a gala,

a dinner that he was going to invite

741

all of these big funders, donors, and

there was going to be an art gallery.

742

We were gonna talk about the different

things that we were doing, and then we

743

were going to make all of this money.

744

Prosecutor, Melissa Chase, Esq.:

745

And

746

Nancy Weaver: you served on

the fundraising committee.

747

What did, do you remember any of the

event events that you were involved in?

748

Sure.

749

Um, probably the biggest

one was the Art of Act.

750

Um, then there was a

pedal with your pooch.

751

There was actually two of those.

752

We started working on a second Art of Act.

753

Um, and we also, uh, participated

in Wag Fest, which is a, a

754

festival for dogs in, uh, Columbus.

755

Prosecutor, Melissa Chase, Esq.:

756

Okay.

757

So let's talk just briefly about

the Art of Act and it's a RT of act.

758

Mm-hmm.

759

Play on words.

760

Yes.

761

Okay, so tell me what was the art of that?

762

Nancy Weaver: So we, we had a pretty

good group of people, um, that reached

763

out to artists in the community to have

them contribute, um, a piece of art.

764

It was, we had photographers, we

had sculptors, we had, uh, painters,

765

we had all kinds of different

types of art that were contributed.

766

Um, and then we auctioned those off.

767

And we also had, I wanna say like

60 or so gift baskets of different

768

kinds of things that had been donated.

769

Um, it was a high, high end

dinner, um, and, uh, really nice

770

evening event for people that

might be, might be more interested

771

in contributing on the long term.

772

Dr. G:

773

He was expecting at least

$50,000, but probably more.

774

And then the way that things were

supposed to be done was that the

775

funds were supposed to be split.

776

50% was supposed to go to act.

777

50% was supposed to go

to Rascal Charities.

778

And what was exciting to me was that

we had already spent a lot of money

779

from Rascal Charities doing these

projects that had not gone anywhere.

780

So that was going to be able to

replenish our funds and allow

781

us to continue doing more work.

782

And then his 50% hopefully, was going

to just go towards this bill because he

783

was up to about $20,000 that he owed us.

784

Soon as there, after he started the

planning process, he immediately

785

said, Hey, we already have $10,000

towards the Art of Act and expenses

786

should not be more than $2,500.

787

So right there, you know, we

were looking at quite a bit, and

788

later the same day he text back

and he says, we're up to $12,500.

789

So right now, just off the bat,

we're at $5,000 for each organization

790

with, which for us, was huge.

791

He just continued to tell us about

all the sponsors, all the people

792

that donating, how the venue was

covered, everything was taken care of.

793

The ART of ACT was actually

very successful event.

794

There were a lot of people,

everybody seemed to have fun.

795

We were able to discuss about, you know,

the things that we were doing for animal

796

welfare, but as expected, he never really

had any interest in splitting the funds.

797

Prosecutor, Melissa Chase, Esq.:

798

Do you have any idea, Nancy,

what approximately how much money

799

was netted from the art of that?

800

Nancy Weaver: It was around 16,000.

801

And if you recall what

was supposed to be done.

802

With those funds.

803

The, those funds were supposed to

be split between operating costs for

804

ACT and, uh, rascal Animal Hospital,

where ACT had a pretty good bill.

805

And if you know, to the best of your

knowledge, did Rascal Charity, rascal

806

Animal Hospital, rascal Charities,

did they receive half of those funds?

807

Not to my knowledge, no.

808

Dr. G:

809

So first it was we have $10,000 each.

810

Then it was, we have $8,000 each.

811

Then it was like, well, actually.

812

We only have about $2,000, and then

there was just basically nothing.

813

So he brought $2,000 to pay

towards his bill and he said

814

that was from the events fund.

815

So that's when I realized that

he had no intention of giving

816

Rascal charities any actual funds.

817

He was just gonna use the Rascal Charities

money towards his bill, and then the

818

rest of the money he was gonna kept.

819

That summer, he just blew the money off.

820

There are texts between him and his

girlfriend saying that he couldn't

821

believe that the money was already gone.

822

He didn't know how it disappeared that

quickly, that he needed to pay our bills.

823

He needed to pay other bills,

and he had no money left.

824

At this point, my manager, Nikki,

had a sit down with him and said,

825

you cannot bring anything else here.

826

Like your bill is too high.

827

You owe us too too much money

and you need to make a payment.

828

And his response to her was that he

didn't think that he had to pay the bill

829

because all those animals were being used

towards the show that we were planning on.

830

Like what?

831

There.

832

There was never talk about that.

833

And let's think about the fact that some

of the bill was his own personal dogs.

834

He was bringing his own dogs and

putting them under the ACT account,

835

so he was trying to get off from

this whole bill by saying that we had

836

discussed that it was towards the show.

837

Thankfully, Nikki's no pushover, so Nikki

went ahead and told them that's not it.

838

We are not gonna let you, uh,

build more on this account and

839

you need to get stuff paid.

840

Seeing how all this money from

ACT was just kind of disappearing.

841

That's when it just really hit

me that, you know, he was lying

842

about all the things that he could

do with animals, because I could

843

see that he was just not really.

844

The dog whisperer that

he touted himself to be.

845

But then money was disappearing and

we we're not talking about, you know,

846

a lunch here and there, we're talking

about tens of thousands of dollars.

847

So at that point, I reached out

to my accountant and I said that

848

I wanted to look into it because I

wanted to know if he was lying to

849

the IRS, if he was committing fraud.

850

So he started looking into it.

851

He realized that there were huge

discrepancies between what Act

852

Ohio was submitting to the Attorney

General and the filings to the IRS.

853

Um, so we, we thought that he was using

ACT Money for himself, and this just gave

854

us that information that perhaps he was.

855

Det. Jim Conroy:

856

we had known he had stolen, you know,

had not paid you the money that he

857

had owed you from the Art of Act.

858

So we knew that, you know, so.

859

That was like $16,000.

860

So, you know, there's a lot of money

there right off the bat from the

861

first thing that we're told about.

862

And then you had also mentioned

that he had done other fundraisers

863

with you and you had never been

paid on any of 'em, which is true.

864

Which then I would come to find out, there

was like six, six fundraisers he ran with,

865

uh, act Ohio and Rascal and Charities.

866

And you guys never received

a dime from any of 'em.

867

He kept it all, uh, even so

much as the one where you guys

868

did the uh, uh, hoarding case.

869

Uh, and a year later he publicized

that on a GoFundMe and brought

870

in a couple thousand dollars from

it and, and just didn't share.

871

Dr. G:

872

If you were involved in an

investigation, you're not going

873

to let the person that you're

investigating know what's happening.

874

So at that point, even though we were

limiting our services to him, I didn't

875

wanna completely cut ties because

I needed to get more information.

876

I needed him to feel that we were

still friends to a certain extent.

877

The next part of the story takes us back

to the beginning, which is Remy's story.

878

So Stefan shows up, comes in

through the front door, and

879

tells the receptionist that.

880

He has this dog that is a vicious dog

and has to be euthanized because he

881

killed another dog, but because he is,

he has a dangerous dog license, he cannot

882

bring him in through the front door,

so he wants to bring him in through

883

the back so he is shown to the back.

884

He tells me about the, the story about

it, and I remember seeing some stuff

885

online about how he had a dangerous dog

license because of a couple of incidents

886

in the Trumbull , county dog Pound, but I

honestly did not know much more about it.

887

So he tells me, you know, the dog

unfortunately killed another dog.

888

And because he's a vicious

dog, he has to be euthanized.

889

So, uh, we sedated Remy.

890

He was euthanized and, and then even

though he says about how sad he was, how

891

upset he was and about Remy and about

his girlfriend and everything else.

892

That was not his attitude that day.

893

He was just like business as usual.

894

We were in the process of receiving a ct.

895

We had purchased this CT scan

machine that was going to be really

896

helpful, both for our patients

and then also for forensic cases.

897

But unfortunately, we were short.

898

We were short about $18,000.

899

So the company, because it was

towards the end of the year,

900

because this was December 28th.

901

They wanted to to process the

sale before the end of the year.

902

So they went ahead and provided

the machine, like delivered the

903

machine, but they would not install

it until the payment was completed.

904

So this is all happening while Stephanie

is there and he sees it and he says, Hey,

905

would I be out of your shit list if I

help you secure the $18,000 that you need?

906

And I was like, sure.

907

So he immediately tells me, okay,

I'm gonna call Christine Tortorella

908

from the Tortorella Foundation

because they should be able to help.

909

Prosecutor, Melissa Chase, Esq.:

910

want to talk to you about a CT scanner.

911

Are you aware of a CAT scanner

associated with Rascal Animal Hospital?

912

Christine Tortorella: Yes, I am.

913

Prosecutor, Melissa Chase, Esq.:

914

Okay.

915

Dr. G:

916

I explained to Ms.

917

Tortorella, you know, this

is a $250,000 machines.

918

They required a deposit.

919

We had most of the deposit.

920

We were just short $18,000.

921

And she said that she could

not give one group $18,000

922

because that's a lot of money.

923

Prosecutor, Melissa Chase, Esq.:

924

what was she writing to you about?

925

Christine Tortorella: Well, she's

writing to me about our offer to

926

help them purchase the CT scans

so that they could get it to work.

927

And she served low income

patients and so we.

928

The conversation is, can we, if we, we

bring it up, you know, into your office

929

by pt, that's, we'll give you 10,000

rent for, but shoot, we talked about

930

the, uh, that, that another eight would

either come back to us for our then

931

profit, or it would, we would arrange

for it to go someplace for a nonprofit.

932

Dr. G:

933

$8,000 she would give us as a loan to pay

back within six months so that then she

934

could reappropriate it to another group.

935

And that was perfect because

six months, yes, absolutely we

936

can pay you two, $8,000 back.

937

She was very excited about helping us.

938

We were super excited because we were

gonna be able to get this CT machine

939

and everything was like, great, right?

940

No.

941

Why?

942

Because Stefan was involved.

943

So that was that conversation,

that three-way call.

944

Had been the last time that I had

spoken, the, the one and only time

945

that I had spoken to her, because he

never gave me her contact information.

946

So March 28th, right?

947

We started this in December

28th, March 28th, the company

948

that sold us the CT scan.

949

Was, you know, gave us an ultimatum and

said, you're gonna have to return the

950

unit, which was gonna cost us money.

951

We were gonna lose the

deposit that we had made.

952

So he finally texted me to call, uh, Ms.

953

Tortorella directly, and he said that he

had just spent an hour talking to her and

954

that he could not get anywhere with her.

955

So he, you know, I, that at that point

I needed to talk to her, which is what

956

I wanted to do from the beginning.

957

So.

958

I call Ms.

959

Tortorella and she says something

to me completely different

960

to what Stefan had said.

961

So she says that she told

Stefan that I had to fill an

962

application, which he never told me.

963

So that had never been done.

964

Because an application was not filled,

the board was not going to approve

965

and they were not gonna release funds.

966

But furthermore, Stefan said that the

money that she was going to be releasing

967

was going to go to pay the ACT account.

968

And the fund foundation said

that they don't do that.

969

They don't, they don't pay back bills.

970

Christine Tortorella: So our

foundation has a grant application

971

process that helps us, you know, do

the best we can to serve what we do.

972

So she, I did thank her for

giving us the information we

973

needed to facilitate the grant.

974

And granted this size is,

you know, substantial for us.

975

So what I was trying to say is I

know there was the $18,000 balance on

976

that CT scanner and they needed it.

977

So I thought, well, okay,

let's get that taken care.

978

But, but we wanted actual grant they

would keep, as a grant is a 10,000.

979

So we were, I wanted to make

sure, well, I said for low income

980

veterinarian services would be.

981

A, a compliment and that's what

we ended up agree, agreeing on.

982

Prosecutor, Melissa Chase, Esq.:

983

So Chris, if I understood you,

10, $10,000 of the $18,000 went

984

to Rascal Charities, correct?

985

Yeah.

986

Yes.

987

The other 8,000, where did,

where did those funds go?

988

Christine Tortorella: Well,

initially it went to pay.

989

So they could get the CT

scanner in and get it working.

990

But I said, that's a larger grant.

991

So that 8,000 through Rascals in our

agreement needed to go to another one.

992

'cause that's a larger grant that

we generally give, so she agreed,

993

they got the scanner in and then

we agreed that Save Ohio Pets was,

994

uh, really helping functioning,

um, productive low income services.

995

And so we.

996

She that ended up helping the spay

and neuter at their, their, um,

997

events to promote, to serve low

income community and Columbus.

998

Prosecutor, Melissa Chase, Esq.:

999

And so we're talking about the

organization that worked in partnership

00:55:27,964 --> 00:55:30,124

with Rascal was state Ohio Pets?

00:55:31,324 --> 00:55:31,924

Christine Tortorella: Yes.

00:55:32,009 --> 00:55:32,010

Prosecutor, Melissa Chase, Esq.:

00:55:32,010 --> 00:55:32,299

Okay.

00:55:32,554 --> 00:55:33,214

Christine Tortorella: Very good.

00:55:33,684 --> 00:55:33,685

Dr. G:

00:55:33,685 --> 00:55:34,374

So.

00:55:35,379 --> 00:55:39,669

I explained to her, yes, during our

three-way conversation, she made it

00:55:39,669 --> 00:55:43,899

clear that $10,000 was going towards

services for low income and rescue

00:55:43,899 --> 00:55:45,489

animals through Rascal Charities.

00:55:45,819 --> 00:55:51,159

And the other 8,000 was a

loan that we had to pay back.

00:55:51,159 --> 00:55:55,269

And she was so thankful because

he was totally gaslighting her.

00:55:55,569 --> 00:55:59,529

She, he had her second guessing

herself that she had said

00:55:59,529 --> 00:56:02,409

that when she never did so.

00:56:03,384 --> 00:56:05,034

We got everything sorted out.

00:56:05,364 --> 00:56:08,874

She gave me the information

for filling the application.

00:56:08,874 --> 00:56:13,254

I filled the application and

then within, I wanna say a week

00:56:13,254 --> 00:56:14,969

to 10 days, we had the funds.

00:56:15,954 --> 00:56:18,449

But in the end, the reason we

had not received the money.

00:56:19,119 --> 00:56:23,679

Was because Stefan was trying to

get them to use all the money to

00:56:23,679 --> 00:56:27,909

pay his bill, and he was just not

being truthful to either side.

00:56:28,299 --> 00:56:31,029

And you know, if he keeps us

from talking to each other,

00:56:31,089 --> 00:56:32,559

we're never gonna figure it out.

00:56:32,559 --> 00:56:36,129

So he did a really good job for

three months of keeping us from

00:56:36,129 --> 00:56:37,749

being able to discuss things.

00:56:38,533 --> 00:56:38,534

Det. Jim Conroy:

00:56:38,534 --> 00:56:43,813

And, and again, one of those people

that he was blessed to have supporting

00:56:43,813 --> 00:56:48,553

him, you know, and as I had talked

about, you know, earlier that he had

00:56:48,553 --> 00:56:53,053

so many good people behind him that

he could have done great things for,

00:56:53,533 --> 00:56:55,843

with, with the support that he had.

00:56:56,113 --> 00:56:57,973

And he, and he chose

to do things like that.

00:56:58,123 --> 00:57:00,823

You know, he tried to scam her and get.

00:57:01,198 --> 00:57:06,838

Half of that money, like $8,000

or 10,000 to pay his bill, you

00:57:06,838 --> 00:57:10,168

know, while the other, you know,

eight or 10 went to, you know, your

00:57:10,168 --> 00:57:12,268

grants or, or, or towards the pay.

00:57:12,718 --> 00:57:14,518

Uh, your, and that was the holdup.

00:57:15,238 --> 00:57:18,298

And I did interview, uh,

Christine Tortorella.

00:57:18,838 --> 00:57:24,268

And, uh, and you know, one of the things

she told me that, uh, that really stands

00:57:24,268 --> 00:57:30,118

out is that, you know, she said that for

the first time he pulled that mask off and

00:57:30,118 --> 00:57:35,488

she saw what was really behind, you know,

what he was putting out there on social.

00:57:35,488 --> 00:57:38,548

And that was not, you know, what she saw.

00:57:38,608 --> 00:57:42,388

She believes to be the real

person and that he was very

00:57:42,388 --> 00:57:44,038

angry and screaming at her.

00:57:44,788 --> 00:57:49,918

And, uh, you know, you would probably

have to ask her, but the conversation went

00:57:49,918 --> 00:57:53,998

something to the effect of, you know, I

thought you cared about animals and that,

00:57:54,028 --> 00:57:58,408

you know, you were doing this because

you wanted to make a difference, uh,

00:57:58,438 --> 00:58:00,568

you know, in animals, the animal world.

00:58:00,568 --> 00:58:04,468

And he screamed at her, why

the hell would I do this if I'm

00:58:04,468 --> 00:58:06,418

not getting anything out of it?

00:58:07,168 --> 00:58:09,748

And then she was so taken aback by that.

00:58:10,258 --> 00:58:13,108

Um, and then that, that was

it at that point, you know,

00:58:13,438 --> 00:58:14,998

she was done with him as well.

00:58:15,608 --> 00:58:15,609

Dr. G:

00:58:15,609 --> 00:58:18,638

For us, this was basically

like seal the deal.

00:58:18,848 --> 00:58:23,198

After this, it was obvious that I was not

really going to be talking to him anymore.

00:58:23,498 --> 00:58:28,148

So there were a handful of texts

that I replied that he, he sent

00:58:28,148 --> 00:58:29,708

me and I replied after that.

00:58:30,038 --> 00:58:33,278

He brought a couple of

dogs afterwards, but.

00:58:33,968 --> 00:58:37,838

He never reached out to me prior to

bringing them in like he did before.

00:58:37,838 --> 00:58:43,568

He was just bringing them in as a

regular client for a regular urgent care.

00:58:47,182 --> 00:58:51,132

If you remember from the first

episode when we were, um, talking

00:58:51,132 --> 00:58:58,212

with tsa Kargakos, she started

setting out social media posts and

00:58:58,212 --> 00:59:01,752

putting out rewards, asking for

information about Remy, and this is

00:59:01,752 --> 00:59:04,602

what got Detective Conroy involved.

00:59:04,902 --> 00:59:09,432

He started looking into it and he

reached out to Stefan at one point,

00:59:09,942 --> 00:59:17,862

and if Stefan had replied and given

him a reasonable excuse as to what

00:59:17,862 --> 00:59:22,242

happened and what, why he did what

he did, he may have even dropped it

00:59:22,292 --> 00:59:28,082

But because of Stefan's

deception, he started looking

00:59:28,082 --> 00:59:29,852

more and more and more into it.

00:59:30,002 --> 00:59:33,212

And that's why our second episode

is called The Rabbit Hole,

00:59:33,542 --> 00:59:35,467

because he just kept going.

00:59:36,332 --> 00:59:39,812

Into it and finding more

things and more things and more

00:59:39,812 --> 00:59:45,212

things and more things until he

eventually was able to make a case.

00:59:45,242 --> 00:59:49,622

However, there was so much stuff

that it was just never ending.

00:59:50,132 --> 00:59:54,602

So during this period of time, Stefan

realizes that he's under investigation.

00:59:55,022 --> 00:59:58,892

Somebody's finally going to figure out

all of the scams that he's running,

00:59:59,612 --> 01:00:04,352

and then he decides to pick up and

leave for California, the man that.

01:00:04,772 --> 01:00:08,042

Says that his son is the

most important thing for him.

01:00:08,552 --> 01:00:12,482

Decided that going to California

and starting over without his son

01:00:12,812 --> 01:00:14,582

was the most important thing to him.

01:00:15,062 --> 01:00:21,062

So that right there to, to the people

that knew what was happening, that

01:00:21,062 --> 01:00:25,922

was clear that he was just trying to

run away and he almost got away, uh,

01:00:25,952 --> 01:00:28,112

before he was able to be searched.

01:00:28,855 --> 01:00:28,856

Det. Jim Conroy:

01:00:28,856 --> 01:00:31,495

at the end of the night when we were done

with the search, now we're, we're tired.

01:00:31,495 --> 01:00:33,025

This is like two in the morning now.

01:00:33,565 --> 01:00:38,785

And, uh, and we were in the, uh, the,

one of the bays of the inside of the

01:00:38,785 --> 01:00:40,315

garage at the sheriff's department.

01:00:40,855 --> 01:00:44,605

And then, so we walked up to him and his

attorney and said, you know, do you wanna,

01:00:44,850 --> 01:00:46,255

you know, you wanna sit down and talk?

01:00:46,285 --> 01:00:52,015

And, uh, uh, his attorney said, I gave my

client the advice, and, and, and Baldwin

01:00:52,015 --> 01:00:55,435

said the place of my attorney, I, you

know, I'm not gonna answer any questions.

01:00:55,975 --> 01:01:00,685

And then, uh, so we, uh, he, uh, attorney

gave us the information of, you know, his

01:01:00,685 --> 01:01:05,665

address of where he was going, gave us

his phone number, and, um, that was it.

01:01:05,665 --> 01:01:06,415

He was free to go.

01:01:06,805 --> 01:01:09,535

And he asked if he was free to go and

we're like, yeah, he's free to go.

01:01:09,985 --> 01:01:13,375

And, uh, I believe in the next

morning, on February 8th, and he

01:01:13,375 --> 01:01:15,925

then left, uh, for California.

01:01:16,655 --> 01:01:16,656

Dr. G:

01:01:16,656 --> 01:01:17,675

So what does he do?

01:01:17,675 --> 01:01:22,415

He goes to California and literally starts

the whole thing all over again, except

01:01:22,415 --> 01:01:24,695

now he's doing save them dogs, right?

01:01:24,695 --> 01:01:27,485

He has this ranch that

somebody paid for him.

01:01:27,815 --> 01:01:29,555

He has all these animals.

01:01:29,555 --> 01:01:35,280

He starts making new contacts with

different humane organizations, both

01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:39,360

local and huge humane organizations,

like even national Humane

01:01:39,450 --> 01:01:41,340

organizations such as Best Friends.

01:01:41,610 --> 01:01:46,680

So he has everybody believing

that he can save the, save these

01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:48,870

dogs and do so much well for him.

01:01:49,260 --> 01:01:53,490

But as expected, everything

started going exactly the same way.

01:01:53,495 --> 01:01:55,865

He started taking animals

in, having them euthanized.

01:01:56,540 --> 01:02:02,780

He had some really serious cases where

volunteers that he was taking in who

01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:05,480

had very little experience with animals,

01:02:05,810 --> 01:02:10,730

got very seriously injured by these

dogs, like hospitalization, broken

01:02:10,730 --> 01:02:14,300

bones, just really horrible things

that should have never happened.

01:02:14,300 --> 01:02:16,970

That only happened because

of his irresponsibility.

01:02:17,757 --> 01:02:21,417

So he basically goes to California and

does exactly the same thing, but there

01:02:21,417 --> 01:02:25,437

is so much stuff and we don't have the

time to go through all of that stuff.

01:02:25,437 --> 01:02:27,657

That would be a seasonal all in itself.

01:02:27,957 --> 01:02:30,867

So we are just going to talk about Andy.

01:02:30,987 --> 01:02:35,247

Andy was the feral dog that

he had taken in from Ohio.

01:02:35,832 --> 01:02:39,552

He took it all the way to California

and he took Andy just because, again,

01:02:39,912 --> 01:02:45,432

Andy had a big following, but another

group that specialized in so-called

01:02:45,432 --> 01:02:50,262

feral dogs was going to take Andy, and

he immediately came in and undercut

01:02:50,262 --> 01:02:52,632

him and took her, and poor Andy.

01:02:53,022 --> 01:02:58,812

Thankfully she's still with us, but she

went through a really hard time because.

01:02:59,142 --> 01:03:02,682

He couldn't handle her and she

had all sorts of health issues.

01:03:03,012 --> 01:03:07,932

So to talk about Andy, we are

going to be talking to the actual

01:03:07,932 --> 01:03:10,992

trainer who is also now her owner.

01:03:10,992 --> 01:03:13,452

She adopted her about Andy's story.

01:03:14,294 --> 01:03:17,264

Cheri Lucas: I'm Cheri Lucas,

and I'm the founder and president

01:03:17,264 --> 01:03:21,134

of Second Chance at Love Humane

Society in Templeton, California.

01:03:21,134 --> 01:03:23,114

That's in, on the central

coast of California.

01:03:23,174 --> 01:03:24,734

I'm also a dog behaviorist.

01:03:25,154 --> 01:03:29,084

Um, so that's what I do for a

living, but my heart is in my rescue.

01:03:29,489 --> 01:03:33,359

Um, and we've been around

for about 36 years.

01:03:33,659 --> 01:03:36,859

We've rescued and placed

over 5,000 dogs in that time.

01:03:36,889 --> 01:03:38,479

We're all volunteer, run.

01:03:38,869 --> 01:03:42,859

Um, no, no breed in

that we would turn away.

01:03:42,859 --> 01:03:46,609

We would just basically pull dogs

that are on the euthanasia list in

01:03:46,609 --> 01:03:50,149

southern California, um, at different

shelters in Southern California.

01:03:50,669 --> 01:03:50,670

Dr. G:

01:03:50,670 --> 01:03:54,029

What kind of behavior issues do you

work with more, more frequently?

01:03:54,879 --> 01:03:58,189

Cheri Lucas: I would say the, the

primary thing that, that I see is

01:03:58,189 --> 01:04:02,689

dogs that are unsocialized, um, dogs

that are, have been just either on

01:04:02,689 --> 01:04:05,959

the streets or thrown in the backyard

of somebody and never interacted

01:04:05,959 --> 01:04:07,729

with, and as a result, they have.

01:04:08,059 --> 01:04:10,069

Severe social deficits with people.

01:04:10,069 --> 01:04:11,329

They're terrified of them.

01:04:11,689 --> 01:04:15,949

Um, a lot of them are horrible

with people, but they're, they're

01:04:15,949 --> 01:04:19,099

really good with other dogs because

those are their people pretty much.

01:04:19,099 --> 01:04:20,389

That's who they've hung out with.

01:04:20,809 --> 01:04:24,079

Um, so I deal with, there's a

lot of that in California where

01:04:24,079 --> 01:04:27,979

there's just dogs roaming even in

packs, which a lot of people don't.

01:04:27,979 --> 01:04:29,719

They don't think of California that way.

01:04:29,719 --> 01:04:31,759

But we have a lot of rural areas that are.

01:04:32,149 --> 01:04:36,499

Are like that, and they just, they

just live, um, like, like wild packs.

01:04:36,499 --> 01:04:37,309

It's crazy.

01:04:37,639 --> 01:04:40,459

Sometimes when they're really

old, they'll dump them.

01:04:40,788 --> 01:04:44,509

So I deal with a lot of that where I

try to build up a dog's confidence and

01:04:44,509 --> 01:04:46,309

I socialize them with other people.

01:04:46,579 --> 01:04:51,209

I deal with a lot of dog reactivity,

dog aggression, aggression

01:04:51,209 --> 01:04:53,129

towards people or with other dogs.

01:04:53,219 --> 01:04:57,119

And, and, and I'll do basic,

just obedient stuff as well.

01:04:57,119 --> 01:05:00,419

But my heart is kind of

in the undersocialized.

01:05:00,419 --> 01:05:04,109

Dogs is the ones that need the most help

and that are the hardest to turn around.

01:05:04,717 --> 01:05:04,718

Dr. G:

01:05:04,718 --> 01:05:06,697

How did you first hear about Andy?

01:05:07,837 --> 01:05:13,867

Cheri Lucas: I was contacted by, um, live

love, um, rescue out of Long Beach, and

01:05:13,867 --> 01:05:19,637

they were an integral part of the rescue

when they closed down the, the whole, um.

01:05:20,587 --> 01:05:24,127

You know, facility, if you wanna

call it that, where there were like,

01:05:24,427 --> 01:05:26,317

I think like 200 dogs or something.

01:05:26,317 --> 01:05:28,777

And don't quote me on that, I'm not sure

how many dogs were up there, but there

01:05:28,777 --> 01:05:33,007

were a lot of dogs and they couldn't get

her, they were having trouble trapping

01:05:33,007 --> 01:05:36,877

her because she was so terrified of

people they couldn't get her on the leash.

01:05:36,937 --> 01:05:42,307

Um, she had been, um, put in a, in a

pen that had nothing in it, just like.

01:05:42,817 --> 01:05:46,687

Bales of pay and a doghouse and

no interaction with people for,

01:05:46,957 --> 01:05:48,517

I believe it was seven years.

01:05:48,517 --> 01:05:52,596

And so she had no social, uh,

skills with people at all.

01:05:52,897 --> 01:05:54,787

So they had four of those dogs left.

01:05:54,787 --> 01:05:58,117

All the others had been pulled

and put into different rescues.

01:05:58,477 --> 01:06:00,517

Um, and she was one of the last ones.

01:06:00,517 --> 01:06:03,096

So they asked me if I could help

her because they knew there's no way

01:06:03,096 --> 01:06:04,807

she could go directly into a home.

01:06:05,047 --> 01:06:06,127

She'd never make it.

01:06:06,952 --> 01:06:11,662

They, um, they trapped her in the, you

know, the kindness traps that they do and

01:06:11,662 --> 01:06:16,732

they brought her up to me, uh, in that

for initially for rehabilitation, not for

01:06:16,732 --> 01:06:19,042

me to keep, but for me to rehabilitate.

01:06:19,482 --> 01:06:19,483

Dr. G:

01:06:19,483 --> 01:06:22,092

What was your initial observation of Andy?

01:06:22,092 --> 01:06:24,852

What did you think about her

condition when you first met her?

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Cheri Lucas: She was in the worst

condition of any dog I've ever taken in.

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She was.

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Severely overweight.

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Apparently, from what I've been told,

she was just like thrown a bowl of

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food every day and just, you know, a

huge bowl of food and just ate, and

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no, she had no medical care whatsoever.