Join us for a heartfelt conversation with Kristina Leos, a NICU nurse turned NICU mom, as she shares her powerful journey through postpartum depression following the birth of her daughter, Victoria. Kristina's unique perspective as both a healthcare professional and a parent highlights the emotional and psychological challenges faced by NICU families. She discusses the groundbreaking medication Zeranolone and her relentless quest for effective treatment, shedding light on the importance of mental health support. Kristina also emphasizes the need for greater awareness and understanding of postpartum depression, especially among NICU parents, and advocates for improved access to mental health care. This inspiring dialogue offers valuable insights for mothers navigating similar experiences and underscores the significance of community and support in the NICU journey.

Kristina Leos, a dedicated NICU nurse from Midlothian, Texas, shares her transformative journey through postpartum depression after the birth of her daughter, Victoria. This episode captures the poignant intersection of her professional and personal experiences, as Kristina navigates the emotional complexities of being both a caregiver and a patient in the NICU. She reflects on the unique challenges that come with leaving your newborn in the care of others, a reality she had previously witnessed from the other side of the incubator. Kristina's narrative is not only a personal account but also a broader commentary on the emotional toll that NICU experiences can take on families, emphasizing the need for greater awareness and understanding of the psychological impacts of such journeys.

As Kristina delves deeper into her mental health struggles, she recounts her relentless search for effective treatment, ultimately leading her to discover Zuranolone—a groundbreaking medication that significantly improved her condition. The episode highlights the importance of proactive mental health care, particularly for NICU mothers who often feel isolated and misunderstood. Kristina's story serves as a testament to the importance of seeking help and being open about mental health, encouraging other mothers facing similar battles to advocate for themselves and prioritize their well-being. Her candid discussion on the stigma surrounding postpartum depression invites listeners to engage in a broader dialogue about maternal mental health.

Moreover, Kristina’s insights into the advancements in NICU technology and the emotional bonds formed among NICU moms reflect her passion for supporting her peers. She advocates for systemic changes to enhance mental health resources for NICU parents, addressing the often-overlooked psychological needs of families in crisis. The episode concludes with a heartfelt message about the power of shared experiences and community support, reminding listeners that they are not alone in their struggles. Kristina's journey is a powerful reminder of the resilience of mothers and the importance of mental health care in the face of adversity.

Takeaways:

• Kristina's journey illustrates the dual challenge of being a NICU nurse and a NICU mom.
• Postpartum depression can impact any mother, regardless of previous mental health history or support.
• The introduction of Zuranolone represents a significant advancement in postpartum depression treatment options.
• Understanding the emotional toll of NICU experiences is vital for both families and healthcare providers.
• Mental health resources are crucial for NICU parents, yet access remains a significant barrier.
• Advocating for maternal mental health can lead to better support systems within healthcare settings.

Cinda Koza.

And this is how I ally.

Welcome to my guest.

If you would please introduce yourself and give us a little backstory.

My name is Christina Laos.

I live in Midlothian, Texas.

It's a suburb 30 minutes south of Dallas.

I have three kids.

My oldest just turned seven, my middle just turned five, and then I have a one year old and my one year old is named Victoria and she's the one I had pretty significant postpartum depression with.

And she's the one that's inspired me to share my story and hopefully help other moms.

I'm also a NICU nurse in Dallas and I just have seen it with a lot of moms in my career.

I've worked in the NICU for 17 years now and I've seen a lot of moms suffer silently and go through the whole NICU experience.

So I feel that as someone who's gone through post form depression and also I was a NICU mom myself this last time and I work with NICU moms, I just felt really inclined to share and hopefully help other moms going through some of the same experiences I did.

I think your story is very unique, although probably more common, much more common than we think, that you were a NICU nurse and then your child was in the NICU and you became a NICU mom.

Was.

Did that just blow your mind?

At first, yes, for sure.

My first two kids were 37 weeks, no NICU, no visits to the NICU.

Like nothing with NICU.

And so I just naturally assumed my third child would be the exact same.

And she was actually my easiest pregnancy.

Once I was actually pregnant, I worked up until 33 weeks and then I was actually at work and I started to feel sick and everything happened from there.

But yes, it gave me entirely new perspective of a NICU mom and what they go through.

And I can now say the hardest thing I've ever done in my life is to leave my baby at the hospital and go home without her.

Empty, empty handed.

I've told so many moms like, oh, it's okay, we'll take care of your baby.

But I didn't truly understand how awful it is leaving the hospital without her.

I have to divulge that I was a NICU mom.

Oh, really?

Yes.

I have twins and they were in the NICU for three months.

Oh my goodness.

Zoom.

Yes.

They were like, they were almost 29 weeks at home.

Yeah.

So I'm sure it's hard for you to hear about it too.

It's.

You just, you really have no idea until you go through it.

And I.

I felt like I was a terrible nurse for the 17 years before that because I never really understood what the moms went through.

And I just remember because in my friends were the ones taking care of my kid.

I can't imagine, like, leaving them with foreign people that you've never met before.

I've known these girls.

They're my second family, and I still had a hard time leaving her.

Did you call a lot?

Like, I remember calling every morning and every.

I would call right when I woke up, and I'm sure they were annoyed with me, but about the nicu?

Yeah, we have cameras on our nicu.

I don't know if you guys have the same thing.

No.

God, I would have loved that.

Yeah.

So it's actually.

There's a pretty big push on getting them.

A lot of the Nikki's have them, and I really appreciated that as a nurse.

They used to drive me insane because people would call and be like, oh, all I can see is her hand.

But as a mom, like, it was my saving grace.

I would log on and just see, okay, she's asleep, or okay, she doesn't have any oxygen now.

And so I didn't call as much because I had the camera.

And one of the perks of being a NICU nurse is I have almost every single person's phone number.

So I would just text them and be like, hey, do you have Victoria today?

But I did call, and the doctors at my nicu, they always call every parent every day.

I know.

Which is very unique.

I.

From what I've heard now.

So the doctors would call me and they call everyone, and I just always waited for them to call, so I felt like I was always in the loop.

And this is a bit.

A big hospital in Dallas, right?

Yes.

That's incredible.

Yeah.

Kids, where they.

Where are you?

Where do you live?

So I'm in New Jersey.

So they were at the Cooperman Barnabas Medical center, which is actually really great.

They have fabulous nicu.

Yeah.

But we didn't have Kim Kim.

And the doctors didn't call me every day, but I know that they had a lot of different patients.

My twins were.

Even towards the end of their stay, they were in the same pod, but in different separate things.

Yeah.

Same poppin.

Yeah.

But they had different doctors.

Even they had different doctors.

Yeah.

We have teams and we have.

If it's twins are always on the same team, the same doctors.

Crazy.

Yeah.

Makes.

That makes sense.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's interesting how nicu I Feel like it's a, a newish feel compared to most other areas of medicine.

Like, 30 years ago, a lot of the babies didn't survive, and now we take 22 weeks and above at my NICU.

So it's just, I feel like the neonatology world's constantly changing and even things like cameras and like, some possible.

I've heard you can like, chat with the nurses and I think some places you can facetime with the baby if you're a parent.

Like, I guess at their hospitals that they get a lot of referrals from other states.

So it's just, it's interesting to watch how neonatology is changing over the time.

That's so true.

That's so true.

I feel like.

I know.

I feel like I didn't really know what the NICU was until.

Yes.

Yeah.

Until it was everything.

Yeah.

That's what I always say.

Like, when they do the tours, they're like, oh, here's antepartum and here's your labor and delivery room.

And they go through everything and then they'll literally walk past and be like, this is the nicu.

And then it's move on.

The NICU is like the hardest part of the entire thing if you do have a NICU stay.

And I just, I wish that doctors and society in general, like, actually told parents about the NICU and what to expect and especially if you're pregnant with twins or have a high risk pregnancy or something like that, because I just feel like a lot of most parents are blindsided by the entire experience and you would never expect to see your baby on a ventilator or.

It's just so much.

Yes, yes.

It's.

I definitely wasn't prepared for how epic of a journey it was going to be.

And leaving every day, you just feel this, like, hole inside of you.

Literally.

You're like, my babies are not inside me, but they're also not with me.

Yes.

Like, where are they?

This happened.

Yeah.

I have a fresh C section.

I have pain.

I'm a new mom, but I don't have a baby.

It just, it was weird.

And I remember I went to my OB appointment, like my two weeks postpartum one, and all the moms were in the waiting room with their babies.

And I was like, here I am, a postpartum mom and I don't even have my own baby.

And my doctor was running behind and I just was like, I can't sit here any longer.

This is just way too much for me to see all these other people.

With their babies.

And here I am for the same appointment, and my child is back at the hospital, so.

Really?

Yeah.

So that must have been torturous for you, that appointment.

Yeah.

So I ended up coming back the next day.

They.

The nurse was like, oh, yeah, come back another day.

She had some emergencies.

So I came back the next day, and there was no one in the waiting.

Waiting room, which was much nicer.

Nice.

Yeah.

Someone told me, like, the second or third day of when Victoria was in the nicu, and she said, christina, once you're a NICU mom, you'll always be a NICU mom, and you'll forever be changed.

And it was.

It just has resonated with me so much.

Like, it just.

Something.

My brain has changed, and I just.

I feel like Nikki and mom's bond, and we just have a connection that you can't explain unless you've been through it.

That's so true.

It's true.

And moms in particular, like, my husband was.

He was working, so I was there much more than he was, but he was still with me for.

Throughout the whole thing.

But it's different.

Yes.

Men grew very different than women, and their emotions are very different.

They don't have the postpartum hormones.

It's.

It is very different for a man and a woman.

Yes.

I think the most profound thing that I would feel other than, like, fear.

Like, fear that they couldn't breathe or that they wouldn't get off oxygen or something like that, the biggest thing I felt was, like, do they know who I am?

Like, do they know that?

Do they have any idea that I'm their mother?

And that just, like, even when I say that now, it.

It.

But, yeah, it kills me.

Yeah.

It's so hard.

Yeah.

And I'll, like, I'll hear nurses say, oh, my baby's doing this, or, my baby's doing that.

And I guess I never really thought about it until I had Victoria.

And I will never say, my baby, oh, my baby's having a dsat, or my baby's doing this, because it's not my baby.

It's the mom's baby.

And when I hear people say that in front of the moms, it just.

It drives me insane because you just don't realize it.

But it's not your baby.

It's.

It's the patient you're taking care of.

It's the parents baby.

Wow.

So have you said that to any of your co workers?

Or, like, has that changed?

Has your relationship changed with your coworkers?

Yeah.

And, like, Just things that people, as nurses, that we would get annoyed about.

I've told people, like, listen, guys, like, you can't get annoyed about this.

Or like, the camera thing.

Like, before I had Victoria, those cameras, like, I knew they were great, but we have parents that call every 10 minutes.

Their hand is in the way, or their blankets, this and that.

And it does.

It takes away from the care of the baby because we'll be doing something with another baby.

And then we have to answer the phone to say that we need to move the camera to the left or the right.

But now that I've seen the cameras and seen what they've done for me, I tell those nurses, like, yes, I know the cameras are a pain, but they are the best thing that I have.

The closest thing I have to having my baby with me is I can be pumping and log on my phone and see my baby and know that she's okay and nothing's happened.

I can look and see, does she have a feeding tube?

Does she have oxygen?

Is she back on the ventilator?

Just stuff like that.

So I have been very vocal about the NICU experience and my perspective on staff meetings and stuff.

And sometimes I feel like my co workers are like, okay, that's enough.

We don't want to hear about your experience.

But I think it's very important for everyone to know.

And I work with a great staff and great unit, and everyone.

They do listen to what I have to say.

And the doctors, I, some.

Some of them have approached me and been like, oh, what do you think about this?

And how could we change this?

And.

And they.

And I've heard them talk to parents recently about.

Because I blame myself for everything.

And I heard them talk and say, this is not your fault.

And just the way they talk to parents, I think is just really great.

That's wonderful.

Yeah.

So I definitely want to talk about.

Questions like postpartum depression and nicu.

So it's okay.

Yeah.

I think what really struck me is the.

In your interview, just, I feel like you really painted a picture of depression in itself and just how insidious it is.

And also postpartum depression and then also treatment resistant depression and how you were working with great.

With some very helpful providers, but you also had to do your own sort of research.

Tell me more about treatment resistant postpartum depression and that journey and how vivid is it still in your mind even if you aren't in the middle of it right now?

How close does it feel, if that makes sense.

So my journey with it Is another backstory is with my daughter, I had postpartum depression.

My oldest.

And at 7, and I took Lexapro and just responded well to it.

I talked to a therapist like once a month or something.

And at that time I thought it was bad post prone depression just being a new mom and stuff.

But looking back on it, it was not at all.

I just wanted a Lex Pro.

And so after I had Victoria, I was on magnesium and I just remember sitting in the hospital bed and I was like, what the heck just happened?

Like, I had a baby.

It was just this weird feeling and I could just feel like all my hormones crashing.

And so I did reach out to my ob gyn's partner and I asked her, I said, I have a history of postpartum depression.

After I had my son, my doctor just put me on Lexapro just prophylactically to make sure that I wouldn't get it again.

And it was great.

And then my next kid, I got on Lexapro after the OB prescribed it, and I would feel like I would get better and then worse and better and worse.

And everyone's, you have to wait for your hormones to adjust.

You have a baby in the nicu, you're all over the place.

And I would get better and then worse.

And then I thought when she would go home from the nicu, things would be a lot better because I wouldn't be stressed going between Dallas and Midlothian and having two kids at home and being the nicu.

But that's not how it worked.

It actually got worse.

And so during all this time, I was seeing my obgyn, like basically every week or every other week about the depression.

She was really on top of it.

And so she prescribed me something else.

And we just kept going up and up on the doses.

And finally I realized this is beyond an ob gyn's scope.

I need to reach out to a psychiatrist, a women's health psychiatrist.

So I ended up getting in touch with her.

She changed my medications up a little bit, added new stuff.

I was on max doses of pretty much everything.

And the problem with those traditional SSRIs is it takes two, three, four, five weeks to work.

And when you're going through it, like even a whole day seems like so much.

And if you're telling me I have to wait for four more weeks, like, that's a lot.

And she told me, listen, we don't really have Many other options, medication wise.

So we can do, like, the shock therapy, the ect.

We can do a partial inpatient hospitalization, which just seemed so much.

Having kids at home.

I knew how hard it was being in the hospital with my baby there.

I can't imagine being with three kids at home.

And then I could do some infusions of ketamine.

Infusions and all that just seemed like so overwhelming to me.

And I was like, at that point, like, my baby's 10 months old and I'm not better.

Like, I think not getting better or just thinking that I couldn't get better was the hardest because I didn't think I'd ever get out of it.

Because with my daughter, my oldest, I could feel a light at the end of the tunnel.

But this.

I just felt like there was no way, like, I was gonna live my life forever like this.

And I.

I couldn't.

I could not.

I knew I couldn't do that for myself or my kids for the rest of my life.

Yeah.

I feel like in my experience with depression, that.

That is the worst.

That's like the tipping point is when you can't see a light at the end of the tunnel.

Yes.

Yeah.

That is when it's okay.

This is dangerous.

This is.

It's that hopeless feeling.

Yes.

Yeah.

And just, like, telling myself I'm so bad, all this stuff, and, like, I thought I was a bad employee, a bad mom, a bad wife.

It's just so weird because looking back on it, I'm like, how could that happen?

Like, how could I feel like that?

But it's just.

It.

You don't really understand it.

It's like the NICU thing.

You don't understand it until you've been through it.

And that dark tunnel you get in is so hard.

Yeah.

So I had a psychiatrist who was in her residency, so the hospital that I was being seen through, the psychiatry clinic, has a residency program.

And so they're psychiatrists, but they are.

They talk to you, like, for part of their classes or whatever.

So I saw her for a while, and she was really great.

At first, I was not a huge fan of her because she was very, like, pushy, and you need to do this, you need to do that.

And I was like, I can't.

But I have a great respect for her, and I think she's wonderful.

And so she really pushed me to do more and to ask for more and my ob GYN as well.

She was always willing to help me, which I've heard from a lot of people.

In the postpartum support groups that a lot of obgyns will blow people off and be like, yeah, it's just hormones.

But luckily I know my OB GYN very well.

She's known me for a long time and she was very supportive and she'd have her nurse call and check on me and stuff.

And I never felt like if I told her something, she would think badly of me or anything.

So I did, with all the extra help, was very helpful.

But I had actually heard about this new prescription drug that had come out, the pill form that was the first FDA approved medication for postpartum depression.

And I researched it a little bit.

I think honestly it showed up on my Facebook feed like back in September when it was approved.

And I was just like, I'll like it, whatever.

But I didn't really think too much about it.

But when I was here at this point where they're like, you can get shock therapy or ketamine or I was like, I'm going to ask my psychiatrist about it.

And so I did.

And she said she didn't really know much about it.

And so she had to reach out to like the drug rep or the drug company or something.

And so she did.

And she called me back a few days later and she said, I think you'd be a really good candidate for this.

I'm not sure how to prescribe it yet.

Like, she didn't tell me straight up, but I knew that I was her first patient to take it and probably the first at the clinic because of the lack of knowledge about it, which is fine.

It just came on the market, just getting it.

And I was really scared about taking it because it was a new medication.

I didn't know anyone who had taken it before.

Most of the things I know someone that has had something, but not this.

And it's the first time I actually read like the entire pamphlet of the side effects and all that kind of stuff.

And I read it and it was scary.

And I actually was like, I don't know if I should do this, but I knew that there was no other way out and I was willing to try it.

And I think all those pamphlets are always scary if you actually read them.

But the side effects were nothing compared to even the other medications like the SSRIs.

Those don't make you feel that great either.

It was great.

It.

I think I got it like the day after Christmas, but I was like, I'm gonna start it the end of the year.

So I started at January 1st, and it took.

You take it for two weeks.

And I made sure I wasn't working the first five days just because I read, like, it can cause sedation and you can't drive and things like that.

And those effects were very minimal.

I just took it at night, and I'm glad it made me sleep.

Part of depression is getting better is sleeping.

And I was a little bit dizzy.

But again, like, the effects were so minimal compared to how much it helped.

And by the second or third day, I had heard that cliche about the fog lifting, and I was like, whatever.

I don't.

But it did.

Like, I was driving and I was like, oh, my God, this is the fog that people were talking about.

Like, I could literally feel it lifting.

And each day I just felt better and better, and it was just such a.

It, like, changed my outlook on things because, like I said before, I just thought I was going down a dark hole and I never get out of it.

And it was the first time since March that I could feel the cloud lifting and feel like, happiness again that I hadn't felt.

I never had that joy of having my daughter, who, by the way, was an IVF baby.

Like, we wanted her so bad.

I went through so many shots and painful procedures and stuff for this child, and I could finally hold her, just feel the love that I never felt before I took that medication.

So I.

I feel like it's such a lifesaver for me and so many other women out there.

And again, I'm in these postpartum support groups on Facebook and stuff, and I'm just so surprised by the lack of knowledge that people have of this.

Like, the doctors.

Even the doctors will be like, oh, I'm not a candidate, or I need to do this and this.

And I'm like, what?

I don't know where you guys are getting this stuff from.

So I try to tell people, like, there's other things besides SSRIs as well.

Have you?

Yeah.

That's huge.

That's very important.

I feel like Zoloft is like the.

And I'm not talk.

I'm not talking badly about Zoft, but I feel like that is the one that they're like, postpartum mother Zoloft.

Yeah.

Yes.

And I took that, too.

That was one of mine that I took this last time with her.

Yeah.

And like, the cytoplasm.

Gad, I don't I never felt great on it either.

And then getting off of it, like, weaning off those SSRIs, like, the brain zaps.

And just.

I always felt so gross getting off of them.

And I didn't feel like that with the Saran alone.

That's incredible.

Yeah.

It's just two weeks.

Like, it was.

And that was another thing I was worried about was, like, pumping.

And as a NICU mom, like, one of the only things you can provide is milk.

And I was like, man, like, I can't give my baby my milk when I'm on Zara loan.

But I just pumped a whole bunch before, and I saved it up and froze it.

And so for those two weeks, I gave her frozen milk and he was totally fine.

And then I just pumped and saved it for milk baths and stuff like that.

And then once I was done with the medication, I pumped a few more days and threw it out and then got back to feeding her the milk.

And.

Which is two weeks.

And it's.

You could do anything for two weeks, even formula.

Like, I did give her some formula, too.

And that's another thing of mine is people that don't produce enough milk.

Formula does not kill babies.

It's the best thing besides breast milk.

All my kids have had formula and they're all survived.

Yes.

And yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, honestly, I think it's nice to not have to, like, be so OCD about milk and stuff while I was on the Zuranolone, because she could.

I didn't feel bad giving her formula because I knew I was doing what was best for myself.

Yes.

And for you.

The most important thing for Victoria was for you to be okay.

Yeah, yeah.

Because there's something like the number one predictor for a child's well being is the well being of the child's mother.

There are.

I don't know.

I've always heard that.

And so I keep saying it because I really believe it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

If you look at studies, it's.

I think kids with parents who have had depression or anxiety, like, they have, like, low language and low delayed this and delayed that.

And that's what I was reading.

And I was like, right now I think it's the end of the world if she doesn't get breast milk or whatever.

But it's going to affect her so much better.

And I could see how it affected my older kids, too.

My oldest daughter is very sweet and her teachers would be like, she's not acting good and she's getting in trouble, and it's Just that was not my oldest child, and I knew I needed to change something.

Wow, that's so interesting.

That's so interesting because my twins are my only children.

Yeah.

And will be my only children, as far as I can tell.

So I don't know what.

I've never.

I have not had that experience of how things affect the older children.

That is like a whole other huge dimension.

Yes.

Yeah.

Both my kids were very affected, and I just was so shocked that they say healthy mom is healthy baby, and that's so true.

And healthy kids as well.

Yeah.

I think it's incredible that you found your own.

Like, you found your own.

Like you saved yourself.

Really.

You found the drug.

Yeah.

I think that's pretty incredible.

Yeah.

I'm a huge researcher.

I love research, whatever it's about.

And I think I read kind of a side note that I think one in three NICU moms have postpartum depression.

The statistics are so high.

And that's.

Of the people that are reporting it.

So I.

That's why I love to share my story with people.

I'm actually a super private person.

I don't think many people at all knew anything that was going on when I was going on, because I was so embarrassed and ashamed.

But I just.

I'm so shocked by the number of people that don't know much about this medication or postpartum depression.

And so that's why I'm willing to share and there's no off questions or off limits of anything, because I think we just need to be open more about it as a society and as moms.

And I think especially with social media, you scroll through social media and everyone's kids are, like, dressed perfectly and their houses are perfect.

And here I am like, oh, my God, I'm lucky if I take a shower every four days.

And.

Yeah.

Why?

My kids look terrible and my house looks terrible and there's laundry piled up in there.

And I just think we just need to be more open as moms about what it's really.

Absolutely.

I couldn't agree more.

That's why I'm so passionate about doing these interviews.

I think it's.

I think women face obstacles when telling their stories anyway, when trying to be heard.

There's already something to fight against as a woman.

And so we just.

We need to hear from each other.

We need to be here for each other.

And the fact that you are a NICU nurse, you have every respect and credential, and it's not.

It's not like hearing about postpartum Depression from just anyone, if that makes sense.

Yeah.

And just I was super blessed.

I had a ton of resources.

Like, I could text someone, be like, can you connect me to a psychologist?

Or this or that.

And so many women don't have those resources.

And psychological care is expensive.

I don't know many insurances at all that cover psychologists or counseling.

My husband works for the federal government, so we have one of the better insurances.

And I think they cover six appointments, which six is nothing for mental health.

And I know I'm super lucky that I got the six.

And like my psychologist I was seeing at first, I think it was like $210 for 45 minutes, which is pretty much the going rate.

I feel like she was not overly priced, but you can't afford that.

Especially when I had to go for a while.

I was doing it twice a week and things were that mad.

And so I was like, I'm on maternity leave.

I'm getting like half of a paycheck.

I'm spending tons of money on this psychology.

So I was super lucky that my psychologist did refer me to the resident clinic, where it was only 20 for each appointment, which was a huge lifesaver.

I still spent thousands of dollars on therapy, but it was only 20 each time.

So I just feel like the access to maternal mental health care is so bad.

So bad, so bad.

And it's expensive and most people can't afford that.

My husband and I both work and we both have decent jobs, and I could definitely not afford $200 for counseling so often.

And not to mention, you have a new child and other children.

Yay.

It's hard to justify spending so much money on yourself, even though it is incredibly important when you have children.

Yeah, I've.

I have found that for sure.

Whilst.

Yes.

And then, like, hearing the cost of that medication too, I think they.

And I was like, oh, my God, that.

On top of the hundreds of dollars I'm spending on therapy.

But they have.

Sage has a.

A savings card or something and it ends up being like, so much cheaper.

I ended up paying $0 for that medication, which was cheaper than my copay for the Lexapro or the Zoloft or the Wellbutrin.

I took all three of them.

Yeah, the.

I think I paid $30 co pay for the other one.

So that is huge.

That is really important for people to know.

It really has not been that long.

Oh, well.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Or like a month.

I was due April 15th with her, so.

Really?

Yeah.

When I had her March 8th.

So.

Yeah.

They're around the same age.

Yeah.

So how is she doing?

She's doing good now.

She's 20 months.

No, maybe 20.

Yeah, 20 months now.

Just the sweetest baby.

She's got her own little personality and she lets us know how she feels about stuff.

But she just.

She's been my easiest child overall, just with the flow.

And I.

Maybe as a third child, you have to.

Because she.

Like, with my first, I was like, I'll have to do this nap time at this time and this.

At this time.

And with this one, I'm like, oh, yeah, I forgot.

She didn't have a nap today.

So she's.

But she has a good personality and she does have a little speech delay, which part of me wonders if it had anything to do with the postwar depression.

I'm not sure.

But she goes to therapy and she's getting better.

So if that's all that came out of it, she's getting better with it.

And I'm very thankful that's the least or the most that has happened to her from it because of how long it lasted for me.

And sometimes it's so hard to look back at pictures of her first year of life, and I don't remember any of it.

And that's one of the biggest things that I usually cry thinking about is like, I miss out on her whole first year of her life.

And I just.

I feel so much guilt about it.

And I wish I would have, you know, taken the medication or gotten better help sooner because you can never get that first year of life back and think you're still fasting.

I miss these.

I missed all the baby stage and something that we wanted so bad.

Yeah.

But it's.

I'm not.

But because I completely validate how you feel.

It's also not your fault that this Bell Jar I always think of.

Your interview made me think of the Bell Jar by Sylvia Plath just descending and everything is distorted and then it lifts back up and it just was not.

You didn't ask for it.

Yeah.

You didn't want.

You didn't say, let's do that.

Yeah.

Now I just remember, like, messaging my OB GYN because she was her mom had surgery, like, the day I delivered my baby.

And so I messaged her, and I was just telling her, like, I'm not feeling right.

And she's.

We're going to be proactive about this.

We're not going to go through the same thing.

Let's up the dose.

And.

And I was so confident about it.

And you're talking about.

I didn't ask for that.

I was thinking, like, we are going to be so good.

I'm not going to go through anything.

And then, despite everyone's best efforts, it.

It happened.

And it was so bad.

Yeah, it was so bad.

And it was nobody's fault.

And that's hard.

That's hard.

That's hard to.

That could be hard and comforting because there's no one to blame.

Sometimes it's nice to blame someone.

Yeah, that's what I said.

It's a true chemical imbalance.

Like, it's.

It's nothing that you can do.

It happens to people that are poor, rich, have the best support system in the world, have no support.

I don't know.

I know there's risk factors, but doesn't.

Discriminate, especially with postpartum depression, I think.

Yeah.

So I think you're.

I just think you're incredibly brave to have come out the other side and to have done all of that work and to now be telling your story for the benefit of other women.

And that's just.

In my mind, that's the best thing that you can do.

Yeah.

Yeah, definitely.

And just even at my job, I've been advocating for mental health, and we.

I think we had a psychologist before, but no one knew about it or something.

But now, like, the psychologist is very involved in our unit, and the doctors know about it and the nurses, and I just.

I'm very thankful that people are willing to listen and make steps for these parents, especially NICU parents, because the risk is just so high, and it's an experience you can't describe unless you've been through it.

Yes, absolutely.

Thank you so much for joining me on this episode.

And maybe we'll talk again at some point.

Yeah, anytime.

I'm always willing to talk, and especially as the months go by and just watching everything change.

Yeah.

All right.

Thank you.

Yeah, thank you.

It's good meeting you in person.

I know it was great.