Hey there, Dear Listener! Ready for the third and final chapter in our online dating series? This episode is brimming with all you need to know about filters, messaging, flirtation, and online dating etiquette.

Wondering what filters to set on your dating app? Josh does a deep dive into how you can use filters to get higher-quality matches, including pointers on how to set filters for age and distance. We also touch on whether paying for online dating premium features, such as the ability to set filters, is worthwhile.

If you’re uncertain who to swipe right on, Jessica offers five great strategies.  Next, Josh reviews what to do once you’ve matched with someone – message!  We talk about crafting a compelling first message that gives you the best chance of getting off the app and onto a date, including practical tips for flirting and getting past small talk.

We answer common questions about online dating timing, such as how long to message before requesting a date and timeframes for responding to messages. Plus, we’re chatting about juggling convos – how many people should you talk to at once on a dating app?

Lastly, Jessica reviews the essentials of online dating etiquette, such as how to gently let someone down, the best ways to cancel a date, and how many messages to send if you don’t get a response from a match.

Key Takeaways

00:00 - Intro

01:28 - What filters should I set on my online dating apps?

07:40 - Is it worth paying for dating apps?

10:03 - What strategy should I use to swipe?

15:08 - What do you say when sending a message in online dating?

24:00 - How long should I message before meeting with someone in person?

26:17 - What is a reasonable response time for messaging on a dating app?

30:01 - How do people flirt on dating apps?

36:29 - What is proper etiquette for online dating?

Resources and links

For full show notes with links, visit relationshipcenter.com/podcast

Ep. 2 - What to Look for in a Long-Term Partner

What to Look for in Partner free guide

Ep. 3 - How to flirt like a feminist

Dateable podcast

Deeper Dating: How to Drop the Games of Seduction and Discover the Power of Intimacy by Ken Page

How to Not Die Alone, by Logan Ury

To get more free dating, relationship, and social anxiety advice, go to relationshipcenter.com/newsletter to sign up for – you guessed it – our newsletter!

Looking for some help finding your person? Visit relationshipcenter.com

From the Relationship Center, I'm psychotherapist, couples counselor, and

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dating coach Jessica Engle and this is I

Love You Too, a show about how to create

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and sustain meaningful relationships.

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Josh: I'm dating and relationship

coach Josh Van Vliet.

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On today's episode, part three of

our online dating series, Online

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Dating 103, filters, swiping,

messages, etiquette, and more.

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We're going to dig into it all today.

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We are so happy you're here, and

please remember that this show is not

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a substitute for a relationship with

a licensed mental health professional.

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Welcome, welcome dear listener.

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Thanks for joining us for part

three of our online dating series.

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We're going to be talking about filters.

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We're going to talk about swiping

and giving you five different

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swiping strategies to choose between.

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We're going to talk about what to say

in your first messages and how to keep a

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conversation going, how to flirt online,

online dating etiquette, all good stuff.

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We're going to be digging

into all this today with you.

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So, stick around.

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Jessica: Yes, I'm looking forward

to digging into all of this.

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Before we do that, dear listener, if you

love our show, we would be so grateful if

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you would share an episode with a friend.

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That way we reach more

sweet humans like you.

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So thank you.

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In advance.

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Okay.

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Let's dive in.

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Let's do it.

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What filters should I set

on my online dating apps?

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Josh: Okay.

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Here is my my best guidance for

filters and I'll just, I think this

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almost goes without saying if you're

listening to this episode, I'm kind

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of assuming that you're either, you're

just getting started and you're trying

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to figure out where to go here or

you've been at it a while and you're

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not getting the quality or the quantity

of matches that you're looking for.

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If you're already getting super

high quality matches, you probably

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aren't listening to this episode,

so, and, you probably don't need

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to worry about your filters.

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Given all of that, my guidance,

my overall guidance with filters

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is to set them fairly wide.

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Maybe a little wider than

you might think to start.

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You can always narrow them later if

you need to if you're overwhelmed

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with high quality matches.

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And so let's talk about a couple of

specific filters in particular here.

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Number one, age.

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I want to recommend that you, at

the bare minimum, start with plus or

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minus 10 percent of your current age.

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So that means if you're 30, you're going

to sit the lower end at the minimum

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27 and the upper end at the minimum 33

and that's the minimum recommendation.

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You could certainly extend it beyond

that if you're comfortable with that.

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And part of the reason here, I want you

to not use age as a proxy for a different

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quality that you're looking for, right?

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If you're looking for somebody who

is emotionally mature, for example.

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Age is not necessarily

going to tell you that.

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So if you're thinking, well, I'm just

going to date people older than me

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because they're going to be more mature.

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Not necessarily.

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You know, if you're looking for

somebody who's ready to meet their

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partner and settle down, again,

age is not a great proxy for that.

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So find other ways to look for the

indications of the qualities or the

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values that you're looking for, rather

than using age as a, as a shortcut.

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So, for example, you might highlight

some of your deal breakers in

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a positive way, to help filter.

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That's a filter just a different

kind of filter for the kind of

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person that you're looking for.

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And it's going to be more accurate

to what's actually important to

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you than how old somebody is.

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So that's age.

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Distance.

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How far would you be willing

to travel, realistically?

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The love of your life was x miles away.

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Let's say you knew they

were 20 miles away.

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Would you travel that far?

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And if the answer is no,

okay, set your filter lower.

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But you know, again, this is one of

those where if you set it a little

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bit wider that's probably going to

open up opportunities for things

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that you might have missed otherwise.

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And in the grand scheme of things, if

you look back on your life 20 years

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from now, and you're like, yeah, my

partner was 30 miles away from me.

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And we, you know, we made it

work in the first six months

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and first year or whatever.

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And then we moved closer

and then it was fine.

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You know, you're not going to, that's

not going to be a big, a big speed bump.

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That's, that's kind of what to

think about in terms of distance.

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And for everything else, all those

other filters and depending on the app,

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there are different things that you can

filter by depending on whether or not

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you've paid for the app and all of that.

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But for all of that stuff, ask

yourself, is it truly a deal breaker?

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Is it truly a deal breaker?

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And again, go back to our episode

on what to look for in a long term

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partner and the guide for identifying

what your real deal breakers are and

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what's a preference or nice to have.

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If it's a true deal breaker,

okay, absolutely filter by that.

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Save yourself and those people some time.

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Uh, for example, when I was dating,

I filtered out cigarette smokers

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because I'm highly sensitive.

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Uh, I'm just, cigarette smoke

is very hard on my system.

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I just knew it's just not going to

work for me, so I filtered that out.

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But for everything else, if it's just

a preference, I'd leave it alone.

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You know, you might miss out on

somebody wonderful because you set

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your filter a little too narrow.

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And it's like, oh, there's this

great person and they just happen

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to be a year younger than I

thought they were going to be.

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That's my rant on filters.

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Jessica: I love that.

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Yeah.

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I have a couple different thoughts.

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First, on the age piece, I love

what you're saying about, you

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know, don't confuse age for

maturity or some other trait.

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And that's a very easy thing to

do in online dating in general, is

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people look more for like measurable

things rather than the underlying

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qualities that they're looking for.

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I would not have met you, Josh, if

I hadn't, it was not long before

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we met, too, adjusted my filters to

be open to people younger than me.

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I had a history of dating people older

than me because I've tended to get

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along well with people older than me.

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And a friend of mine challenged

me on that and so I was like,

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okay, challenge accepted.

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And you showed up in my feed

not long after and you're a

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couple years younger than me.

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And also, in many ways, the most

emotionally mature person I've

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been in a relationship with.

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Aww.

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Josh: Don't make me blush.

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Jessica: Yes, so I just really

adore what you're saying about

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10 percent below and above.

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The other piece I just want to name is

that Just that filters, in my experience,

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are one of the most missed opportunities

in terms of optimizing online dating.

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Most people just set them at the

beginning and then forget them.

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Yes.

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And there's, I mean, you know, setting

your distance to 29 miles versus 30 miles.

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Could cut out the love of your life.

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Mm-Hmm.

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. Right.

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So allow yourself to

revisit those periodically.

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And especially the piece you

said Josh, about deal breakers.

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I see a lot of people wasting time,

building relationships with people.

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Have a deal breaker.

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Mm-Hmm.

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. And then they have to cut

it off and it's very messy.

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So save yourself some time.

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If you're very clear on something, just

go ahead and put that in your filters.

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Yeah.

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Josh: All right.

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Is it worth paying for dating apps?

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Jessica: Great question.

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And this connects to the filters

piece because some of those filters

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you can't set unless you are paying.

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Right.

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So a recent Pew research study found

that paid users are more likely to

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report a positive experience using

dating apps than people who do not pay.

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So Let's just talk about some

of the benefits of paying, okay?

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You get extended messaging time on some

apps, unlimited swipes, you get to see

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who liked you, you get more detailed

information about people like when

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they were last active, you get sort of

like improved matchmaking by allowing

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yourself to filter more, narrow down

the search it can save time and it can

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also increase your visibility, like

you can kind of get boosted on the app.

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Yeah, so I think all of those benefits,

they combine to increase the likelihood

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of really forming meaningful connections

and finding a compatible partner.

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I especially recommend paying for

the apps if you're feeling burnt

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out with online dating, If you're

struggling to find quality matches,

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or if you have a tendency to build

relationships with people who do have

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a deal breaker and then needing to

break that relationship down the line.

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Mm-hmm.

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So I was just kind of referencing

that, like, if you are a particular

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faith and you really are you need to

find a partner within that faith, pay

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for the apps so that you can designate

that and you're not seeing people

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who are outside your faith, okay?

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Save yourself that time.

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I also think that paying for an app

can be a great accountability strategy.

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Okay.

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If you find yourself avoiding dating,

which is very common, um, investing

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in the app can, will actually

make you more likely to use it.

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I think it can also be a beautiful way

of sort of setting and energizing your

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commitment to finding your partner,

kind of like putting your money

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where your mouth is sort of thing.

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One of our clinicians, Laia, who's

been on the show before, talks

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about like the energy with which you

engage in online dating that comes

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through and that can be felt, right?

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Like that is going to be evident.

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in how you're engaging all

throughout the process.

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So it may be worthwhile just

even on a symbolic level.

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Okay, so that is filters.

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Josh: Perfect.

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Should we talk for a moment about swiping?

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Let's do it.

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Swipe strategy.

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Jessica: Swipe strategy.

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Josh: I'm going to say real quick here,

if I may if you hear people telling you

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if you're a man dating women to swipe

right on everybody, don't do that.

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I have a feeling you listener know this.

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But in case you didn't,

just ignore that nonsense.

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Jessica: Yeah.

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When we were doing the research for

this episode, we came across a lot

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of questionable advice, didn't we?

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Very.

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Josh: But what would you

say about swipe strategy?

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Jessica: Yes.

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I have five strategies to share with you.

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One I'm going to call the

middle path swiping strategy.

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So you're swiping on some but not all.

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which is going to help train

the algorithm to see you as an

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engaged user who has preferences.

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A sort of different version of this

would be to aim to swipe on about

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one out of every two profiles.

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Remembering that swiping really

is a like, yeah, I'd have a

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conversation with this person.

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It does not commit you to marrying them.

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Right.

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Josh: You don't have to know

from their profile that.

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They're your ideal partner for life.

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Jessica: That's right.

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That's right.

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So that's the middle path.

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That's a good one to

default to, um, in general.

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The next one I'll call

the short list strategy.

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This is our strategy.

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So pulling from the short list from your

ideal mate exercise in our partner guide.

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So in that exercise we have you

go through all of the things that

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you're looking for in a partner.

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And, um, you know, arrange those

things in three different lists.

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And then the last step is to make

a list of five things that you're

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really looking for that are like

at the tippy tippy top of the list.

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And so as you're swiping, you

have that shortlist next to you.

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And if there is evidence that

this person may have those five

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qualities, you swipe right.

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Very simply.

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If you don't really know enough...

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You swipe right, okay?

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If they are showing some deal

breakers, you swipe left.

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Pretty simple.

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There's also the house party strategy.

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This comes from the Datable

podcast, and I really like it.

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They talk about swiping right on

anyone you'd have a conversation with

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if you met them at a house party.

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Which is what dating often looked

like back in the day, right?

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So allowing it to be, okay, yeah,

I'm going to allow things to develop

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organically rather than judging based

off of this two dimensional profile.

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The fourth one I've got for

you is the safe soul strategy.

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This is from Ken Page, and this is

where you, as you're looking at a

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profile, you ask yourself, does my

soul feel safe with this person?

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Don't overthink it.

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Just go with your gut.

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Josh: Very intuitive strategy.

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Jessica: Yeah.

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And this one's a really good one.

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If you do tend to be attracted to

people who aren't a good fit, you

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tend to get caught in what Ken Page

refers to as, like, attractions of

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deprivation, where your needs aren't

really ever fully met, that's a good

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one to really check, okay, is this

person really good, high quality for me?

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And then lastly, I'm going to call

this one the hell yes strategy.

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So that's where you're only swiping

on profiles that you're a hell yes to.

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This references something that Logan

Urie talks about, which is that

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one way to manage online dating

burnout is to pursue the people

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that you're genuinely excited about.

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That was one that you used.

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Josh: That was my strategy.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I realized I got to the point after doing

a fair bit of online dating that I could

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tell relatively quickly, which profiles

I was genuinely excited to, to get to

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know and which were like, I was trying

to convince myself or I was like, well,

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they're, they're cute, they're attractive.

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So, but there wasn't anything

else in the profile that was

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like pulling my heart forward.

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yeah, I found that very helpful for

my, for my burnout and, and really

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like, okay, it's okay for me to

just swipe and message to people

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that I'm, I'm, I'm a hell yes for.

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Mm hmm.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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That's swiping.

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Perfect.

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And is there anything you'd

say about how to choose which

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of those strategies to use?

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Jessica: I think the middle

path again is a great one to

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default to when you're not sure.

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Mm hmm.

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Okay.

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Um, the shortlist strategy, I recommend

if you've gone through the whole IdealMate

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process and you have that really clear

vision, that's a, a really targeted

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way to get higher quality matches.

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Okay.

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So if you've got that clear vision

of your IdealMate, go with that one.

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Um, the house party strategy, if

you tend to be a little too picky.

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I would opt for that one.

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Safe soul strategy, definitely if you

have a tendency towards attractions

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of deprivation, go for that one.

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The hell yes strategy if you are burnt

out or have a tendency to try to convince

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yourself to be in certain relationships

when they're not really a good fit.

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Josh: Love that.

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That was perfect.

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You're perfect.

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Oh, well, shanks.

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Jessica: Shanks.

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Shanks, buddy.

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That's so sweet of you.

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Shall we talk about messaging?

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Messaging.

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All right, je messaging Joshy.

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What do you say when sending a message?

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in online dating?

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Josh: Yeah.

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Well, this is, I mean, kind of a broad

question, but let's, let's, let's dive in.

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Let's start with what might

you say in a first message.

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So let me give you a few

kind of general guidelines.

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Because maybe I'll just preface

this by saying, there is not a

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copy paste this is what you send

to everybody to get a date message.

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And if you find people

telling you that, run away.

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Because that is not about

building relationship.

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There, so there is no template.

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There are some guidelines I can give you.

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One is, you might just use their name.

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So we respond well to hearing

our name or, or reading our name.

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, Along those lines, start with something

that you appreciate about them, that

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you genuinely appreciate from their

profile, something you could tell

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that's not about their body, which

is outside of their control, um, that

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shows that you've read their profile,

that you're paying attention, that

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you're genuinely interested in them,

you're excited about something that

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you saw, and then ask an open ended

question that might be about their

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emotions, their values, their dreams.

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Uh, something from their profile, right?

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Something that shows, again, shows

you've read their profile and

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that you are wanting to know more.

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You're wanting to, to build a connection.

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Let's, let's talk for a second

about closed ended questions

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versus open ended questions.

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Just real quick, a closed ended question

is something that It has like a yes or no

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response or like a one word answer, right?

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So, uh, what's your favorite song?

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One word answer.

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You know, did you like

going to China last year?

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Yes.

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Yes or no.

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You know, uh, that doesn't give

a lot of opening for a deeper

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conversation, conversation that gets

more to the heart of what's important

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to us how we feel about something.

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One real easy way to change a

closed ended question to an open

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ended question is to add why.

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Uh, so like, what's your

favorite song and why?

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That'll give them a chance to share

about, well, I love, you know, Consider

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Me by Alan Stone because it, uh, was

a song that I danced to at my wedding.

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You wouldn't share that if you're on an

online dating site because you, well,

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if you're non monogamous you might.

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That's fair.

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That's fair.

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Uh, um, but that, you know, gives

a chance to share more about,

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like, why is something significant

which helps us feel more connected.

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I'll give a couple of examples.

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Of some, uh, good online

dating starting messages.

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Might be something like this.

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Hey, love that you're so

proud of being a dog mom.

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I guess that means you're

looking for a dog dad?

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Also glad to meet someone detail

oriented who finds their work fulfilling.

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What do you love most

about your work and why?

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So you're naming something that you

appreciate about them, being a little

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bit playful, oh you're looking for a

dog dad, and you're asking an open ended

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question that invites them to share

about something they value and why.

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I love this next example because

it's a little bit of a flip

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on what we've talked about.

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So this one is Hi there, it's Friday!

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Smiley face emoji.

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You seem pretty cool, and I seem

pretty cool, and I also know the

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perfect place for a chocolate fix,

but maybe you've been there before.

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Chocolate connoisseur that you are.

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Winky face.

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So no question here astute listeners

might notice, but do you notice how

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this has a little bit of intrigue to it.

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It like opens, there's a possibility

that is, is unexplored here.

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It's like, there's a chocolate place

that you might be interested in.

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There's a kind of,

there's, yeah, go ahead.

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Jessica: There's like a beckoning.

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There's like a beckoning.

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Josh: Beckoning over, yes.

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Right, it's a little bit playful

I'm assuming that this person has

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seen in their, in their profile

that this person likes chocolate and

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they're responding to that, right?

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Yeah, so those are a couple

of examples of, of things you

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might say in an opening message.

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Um, and it can also be something

very simple like Hey, 98

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percent compatible . Cool.

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Where should we start?

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Which is more or less the message that,

uh, Jessica sent to me on OkCupid,

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uh, which isn't complicated, right?

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I, I, I wanted to share that because

it doesn't have to be like the most

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artisanally crafted, you know, you've

labored over your message and included

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just the right amount of humor and

playfulness and like thoughtful question.

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It's like there's a little bit

of play to that and it's a very

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just kind of simple like open

ended like where should we start?

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And and here we are, you know?

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Uh, so I, I just want to like

lower the stakes a little bit.

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Like there's some good messaging,

absolutely, and we want to aim

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for things that are creating an

opportunity for a connection and

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it doesn't have to be super hard.

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Jessica: Absolutely.

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I love all those examples and, uh, Yeah,

I just want to highlight one thing that

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you, you mentioned in there quickly, which

was compliment them, but not about their

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body, which they don't have control over.

399

So just to highlight the underlying

principle there, compliments are great,

400

and see if you can compliment somebody

on something they have choice over.

401

Um, particularly at the beginning,

if you're somebody who's like

402

worried about coming off as creepy,

this is the thing to lean into.

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So, instead of, you know, your

brown eyes are so beautiful, it's

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those earrings that you chose are

incredible, like they, they really

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show off your personality or whatever.

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If you're, if you're going for a

physical compliment, obviously you can

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also compliment them on things like

your profile is so beautifully written.

408

Mm hmm.

409

I see so much intention

in what you've created.

410

Yeah.

411

Right?

412

So I think that's a

great thing to lean into.

413

Again, if you're worried about coming

across as kind of creepy at the beginning,

414

but still want to give a compliment.

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Josh: Yeah.

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Beautiful.

417

Uh, I'll just also say a couple of things

about what not to do, uh, with messages.

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Don't lead with, hey,

just hey, as a message.

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Yeah.

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Or just, hi, name, or how's it going,

or how was your weekend, right?

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We need a little bit more.

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That is not that could

be a spam bot, right?

423

It's like that's the level at which

it's like it registers this person has

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not Taken any time to read my profile

or paid any attention to me, they

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could have just sent that message to

everybody else on this platform as well.

426

So it doesn't feel personal.

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It doesn't feel like you

actually are interested and care.

428

And don't also start with

something super sexual unless

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that's what you're looking for.

430

I'll also add in messaging, you

know, let's assume you've sent

431

a message, they've replied,

keep the conversational volley.

432

Don't just answer with a statement and

the end because that doesn't really

433

give your, your buddy a chance, an easy

opportunity to continue to connect.

434

Right, so you want to respond to

what they shared and then maybe ask

435

another question, uh, volley back in

some fashion so that there's a chance

436

for the conversation to keep going,

to keep connecting and it doesn't

437

just kind of peter out and end.

438

Jessica: Yes, we can't

tell you how many times.

439

And the clients we work with have

been like, I really want to connect

440

with this person, but they sent me

like a one word response and they

441

haven't asked me any questions.

442

And I just keep messaging

them again with more questions

443

and they never ask one back.

444

And I think it lands for a lot of

people understandably as like, you're

445

not going to be engaged 50 percent

with me in building this relationship.

446

Josh: Yeah.

447

Anything else you want to add

on messaging for now or is that?

448

Jessica: I would just

add along with the open.

449

Ended questions, heart opening

questions, and we'll link to an

450

article about heart opening questions.

451

That's on our blog that includes the 36

questions that lead to love, which I think

452

are a great example of questions that

allow you to like go deeper with people.

453

Some of these aren't going to

be appropriate right up top but

454

just the underlying principle is

like, you know, go beyond asking

455

them what they do for a living.

456

Uh, try to get into how are they

feeling, what are they looking forward

457

to in the future, what are they

inspired by, all those sorts of things.

458

Perfect.

459

Josh: So that's where

to start with messaging.

460

I think the next, one of the next

natural questions is how long

461

should I message with somebody

before meeting with them in person?

462

Jessica: Yes.

463

Absolutely.

464

Okay.

465

So the sooner you get on the

date, the better, generally.

466

That way you're really reducing the

chances of building up a fantasy

467

only to have your hopes dashed.

468

We have seen this over and

over again, and maybe you,

469

listener, have experienced this.

470

Where you're really connecting with

someone by message and then you meet in

471

person, it's like, mm, nope, nope, nope.

472

So I generally recommend a couple of

conversational volleys to establish

473

rapport, to check for availability,

compatibility, responsiveness.

474

So what I mean by that is like, you send

a message when you match, they respond.

475

You send another message, they respond.

476

Okay, great.

477

This person is engaged.

478

They're probably real.

479

They seem actually interested.

480

From there, suggest either a phone

or video chat or an in person date.

481

Now, there are people who

are going to need more time

482

messaging before they meet, okay?

483

Some people are slower to warm.

484

Some people are security

or safety conscious.

485

Some people are just, you know,

they, they're working through

486

some things, so they need, they

have to establish trust over time.

487

You don't need to mind read, though.

488

Go ahead and ask them out.

489

They'll let you know if they need to

build a relationship a little bit longer.

490

And if they continue to kind of

drag it out and not want to meet,

491

that's probably not a good sign.

492

Okay.

493

I always think of when you ask

someone out, you're really kind of

494

drawing a line in the sand, right?

495

And you're seeing who's

actually available for what.

496

Because a lot of people will

disappear once you suggest a date.

497

And that's not because of you.

498

That's because they're probably

just not actually available.

499

They're on the apps.

500

They, they want a relationship on some

level, but they're not able to show

501

up for, for one reason or another.

502

So, you know, save yourself some wasted

time and heartache by allowing yourself to

503

draw that line sooner rather than later.

504

Josh: I love that.

505

That's so important.

506

Jessica: Great.

507

And Josh, related to this, I'm

thinking, is this a good time actually

508

to talk about what's reasonable

response time for messaging?

509

Josh: Yeah, let's, let's go there.

510

Yeah, so a couple of just kind of

simple guidelines I have for you here.

511

If you've sent a first message

and you're waiting for a response

512

to that first message Personally,

I think 7 10 days is reasonable.

513

And, the thing to remember is, you don't

know what's happening in their life.

514

Right?

515

They may be on vacation, they may be

dealing with an emergency, who knows?

516

So, you know, they may not have checked

their dating app for the last 5 days.

517

Because they're out of the country.

518

So if they get back to you in

that time, I wouldn't take that as

519

like, oh, they're not available,

you know, danger, stay away.

520

I Think beyond that, the thing to

pay attention to is, how quickly

521

do they get back to you once

there's a conversation started?

522

And here I wouldn't say there's

like a hard and fast rule.

523

It's really more like what

works for your system.

524

And so if you really need someone

who's going to be very responsive

525

when you message them, You know,

just acknowledge and honor that in

526

yourself, and that is what it is.

527

And I, personally, I think if they respond

within 24 hours, that feels like a, uh,

528

an expectation that I can hold reasonably.

529

It's like, okay, you're gonna be at work,

you're gonna be dealing with other things.

530

You know, I get that.

531

If you're not able to kind of engage

semi regularly, that's maybe a

532

sign that you're not as available.

533

And in a similar vein, for you,

my encouragement would be for you

534

to aim to respond within 24 hours.

535

So that you are keeping the conversation

going, you are demonstrating that

536

you are available for connection, for

building a relationship, that you do

537

have time to message somebody, right?

538

If you really don't have time to message

somebody, even a simple reply in 24

539

hours You probably don't have time to

be in a relationship right now, right?

540

So aim to respond within 24 hours I

think that's just a good guideline.

541

Jessica: Mm hmm.

542

Yeah, a couple of things I would add to

that is if you aren't able to respond

543

in the usual amount of time that you'd

like to, like within a day, name that.

544

Right?

545

If you're in a particularly busy time

at work or whatever, just let them

546

know, hey, generally I like to respond

pretty quickly and right now that's

547

not really possible with my life.

548

So just know it's not about you

if it takes me a couple of days.

549

Josh: That is a skilled

relationship move right there.

550

Yeah.

551

Uh, so that you, because when there's

uncertainty in a relationship,

552

our brain's natural tendency

is to go to something is wrong.

553

And it's either something's wrong with

me, this person doesn't like me, or

554

something's wrong with them, they're

a jerk for not getting back to me.

555

And so you can sidestep all of

that by communicating clearly

556

about your availability.

557

Jessica: Definitely.

558

The other piece I would add is,

I like what you're saying about

559

like, what works for your system?

560

Right.

561

Within 24 hours is a great rule of thumb.

562

And I think for some people, the way that

they're wired, that's just not possible.

563

Right.

564

I, I've definitely worked with some

clients who are neurodivergent.

565

It's like getting back to

someone within a week is like,

566

that's what they're able to do.

567

And that's also what

they expect from others.

568

It's like, they're not really

that thrown off if somebody

569

doesn't respond for a while.

570

Right.

571

So really, again, adjusting this

to your system, you don't need to

572

be someone that you're not, right?

573

You really do want to be

yourself from the beginning.

574

So you attract somebody who's like,

575

Josh: Okay.

576

Jessica: How about flirtation?

577

Flirtation.

578

How do people flirt on dating apps, Josh?

579

Is it possible?

580

Josh: Is it possible?

581

Uh, yes.

582

Yes, it is.

583

And, uh, let's, let's just

start very briefly with what

584

is our definition of flirting?

585

We did a whole episode on this.

586

Check that out.

587

How to flirt like a feminist.

588

But at the heart of it, flirtation is

about playing in the presence of another.

589

Enjoying yourself in

the presence of another.

590

And that kind of playful enjoyment,

like relaxation, connection.

591

And so here are a few simple ways

that you can start to play in

592

that way through online dating.

593

Compliments, like we were

talking about earlier.

594

Again, not about the body, but about

something they have control over.

595

Humor, right?

596

Play, humor.

597

Peanut butter and jelly.

598

Peanut butter and jelly.

599

Right.

600

Exactly.

601

Make a joke.

602

Be silly.

603

Just avoid the status lowering humor,

like putting the other person down.

604

Ask questions, especially

follow up questions, right?

605

This is a way of showing

that you're interested.

606

For me, this is a part of, of

playing with someone, of, of

607

enjoying yourself with someone is

demonstrating I'm interested in you.

608

I want to know more about you, which,

uh, I think immediately communicates

609

you are interesting, which feels good.

610

It feels great when someone

feels like you're interesting

611

and they are interested in you.

612

And so if you can show, uh, not just,

I'm going to ask you a question, great

613

start, but okay, you shared something

about, like, let's say you asked me about

614

my favorite favorite chocolate shop.

615

And I shared a little bit about it

and then you were like, oh, and,

616

uh, you know, What's your favorite

thing to get at your chocolate shop?

617

Whatever it is, something that shows

that you're paying attention, you

618

are, uh, you're not just kind of

volleying a list of questions at

619

them, but that you're listening and

responding to what they're saying.

620

Also, emojis are your friend.

621

This may go without saying, but I'm

going to say it anyway just in case,

622

uh, because they help you communicate

some of the non verbal cues that

623

were otherwise missing in messaging.

624

Uh, so winky face emojis.

625

Grinning emojis.

626

Just all the emojis, right?

627

The devil face emoji, the smirk emoji.

628

Like there's, there's gold in

there, uh, for communicating play

629

and, uh, interest and attraction.

630

And then some other ways you can flirt.

631

Mention the body.

632

I'd love you to speak a

little bit about this one.

633

What would you say more about that?

634

Jessica: Um, well, I think an

example of this is like, I think

635

in some of our messaging, for

example, you referenced dancing.

636

Mm.

637

Right?

638

We both love to dance.

639

And so and actually on one of our

video dates, which is a little

640

different from messaging, but I think

still applicable, you said something

641

like you know, this was during the

pandemic so we weren't in person.

642

And I think you said something

like, I wish we could dance

643

together right now because I

think we'd be really great at it.

644

Mm hmm.

645

Mm hmm.

646

Right.

647

And so even though we weren't able to be

there in person together, in my mind I

648

was seeing our bodies interacting, right?

649

Or you might even just say something

in a message like, just got home from

650

the gym, gonna take a nice long shower

and relax for the evening, right?

651

Josh: You're putting the image of

yourself in the shower in their minds.

652

Right.

653

Right.

654

Yeah.

655

Without any, um explicit, like, picture

me naked, but that's what you're doing.

656

Jessica: Yeah, you're reminding

them, I've got a body,

657

Josh: right?

658

I'm gonna be naked tonight.

659

I love this, and I love it's, it's

distinct from commenting on their body.

660

Right.

661

That's an important distinction

to make here, right?

662

Yes.

663

Evoking the body, reminding

that we have bodies, kind of

664

bringing that into our space.

665

But it's not like, oh,

I want to see you naked.

666

Jessica: Right.

667

Josh: Well, along those lines, innuendo.

668

It's a great way to flirt.

669

Yes.

670

And exclamation points.

671

Mm, mm hmm.

672

I use a little too many exclamation

points, which is why Jessica's

673

giggling at me right now.

674

Jessica: Josh is very

flirtatious everywhere he goes.

675

Josh: Yeah, it communicates

excitement, it communicates

676

interest, it communicates engagement.

677

And last, you know, in this

last one, may or may not be your

678

thing, but it's a great option.

679

Send each other music.

680

Music really, I think, kind of bypasses

some of the more logical, rational parts

681

of our systems and gets more into that

heart, that like, ooey gooey, like.

682

Um, it kind of helps us imagine that this

person is maybe singing these words to us.

683

We sent a lot of music to each other

early on in our, uh, relationship.

684

And that was such a special, uh,

I absolutely had that experience

685

of like, Oh, you're sending

the song to me for a reason.

686

And it touched my heart in a

different way than just like.

687

Jessica: Yeah, I'll just add

one thing, which is, um, GIFs.

688

Josh: Oh, GIFs, like G I Fs.

689

GIFs.

690

Jessica: Or GIFs.

691

GIFs and GIFs.

692

Um, so yeah, the little, like, video

snippets you can send to people.

693

We've done a lot of sending each

other, like, cute animals, like,

694

hugging and kissing over our courtship.

695

Josh: The, the first GIF that, uh, Jessica

ever sent to me was these adorable little

696

bunnies that were like cuddled up next to

each other and like nuzzling each other.

697

It was just the freaking cutest thing.

698

I like lost my mind.

699

It was so cute.

700

So yeah, that's a fabulous way

to to flirt over messaging.

701

Jessica: Yeah, I think that

I sent it to you before.

702

the first date where we were going

to be able to touch because we had

703

like officially joined one another's

bubbles early in the pandemic.

704

And so it was, I was, I think I sent it

to you and said something like, this is

705

what I'm going to do with you tomorrow.

706

Bunny nuzzles.

707

Oh my God.

708

Josh: I was ruined in the best way.

709

Okay.

710

Jessica: That's beautiful.

711

Such a great overview of flirting online.

712

Josh: Well, shall we round it out then?

713

With proper etiquette.

714

Jessica: Proper etiquette.

715

Shall we start first with how many

people to talk to at once, and

716

then is that part of etiquette?

717

It's not part of etiquette,

but I think that's true.

718

Because

719

Josh: it's not etiquette.

720

No,

721

Jessica: it's not etiquette.

722

It's not

723

Josh: etiquette.

724

Yeah.

725

Let's talk about how many people, and

then we'll talk about being proper.

726

Jessica: Yes, very good.

727

We'll end on the proper note.

728

Josh: We're very proper.

729

Yes.

730

Yeah, so how many people

should you talk to at once on

731

an online dating app or site?

732

Jessica: So, sometimes embedded in

this question, in my experience, is a

733

fear that it's not moral to speak to

more than one person at a time online.

734

So I just want to name that the unspoken

social contract around online dating

735

is that people assume you're speaking

to multiple people unless a DTR or

736

determine, determining that Termination

of the relationship conversation?

737

No.

738

What is that acronym?

739

Defining the relationship conversation.

740

So yes, people assume you're

speaking to multiple people on online

741

dating apps unless you've had a DTR

conversation with someone you're dating.

742

Okay.

743

So it's okay to be talking to

more than one person unless you've

744

made an agreement with someone.

745

We generally recommend pursuing

nine connections or fewer at a time,

746

simply because that's the number

that a human brain can keep track

747

of in terms of shorter term memory.

748

Nine may be way too many for you, and

I want to just name that, like, nine

749

doesn't mean that you're like going on

dates with nine people, it's there's

750

nine people you've matched with and you

are in some sort of conversation with.

751

Pay attention to your experience

of speaking to more than one person

752

and just start to track like where

do you start to get overwhelmed.

753

Again, nine may be too much for you.

754

When do you start to like make

mistakes, for example, referencing

755

something a different match said to you?

756

That's a good sign you're

speaking to too many people.

757

Okay.

758

And then lastly, along these lines,

periodically clean up your feed.

759

Okay.

760

So have they not really respond?

761

Have you like matched with someone

and they haven't responded to you in

762

like A couple weeks or, or however

long it is for you, that's a sign

763

that they're not really interested.

764

As Josh said, maybe 7 to 10 days in

terms of responding to the first message.

765

If somebody's not really been in

touch, it's okay to unmatch them.

766

Clean up that feed.

767

You can send a message before you do

that and say, like, wishing you all

768

the best but just allow yourself to

kind of like digitally declutter.

769

with online dating so that you're

clear on who you're actually

770

trying to move forward with.

771

Josh: I love digital decluttering.

772

Digital decluttering.

773

Freeing up space for the people

who are actually engaged.

774

Yes.

775

So.

776

. How.

777

Do I be proper in my online dating?

778

How do I follow the appropriate etiquette?

779

Jessica: Yes, the

etiquette of online dating.

780

Okay, so first, don't

repeatedly message someone.

781

So, Josh, I would say two messages

max with one to two weeks in

782

between and then let it go.

783

Okay?

784

So if you sent a message and you're

like, I really want to connect with

785

this person and they haven't gotten

back to me, let some time pass, give

786

them a chance to come to you and

then send one more just in case.

787

The message didn't get through.

788

That does happen, but beyond that...

789

Leave it in their court.

790

Okay.

791

Next as Josh has mentioned, avoid starting

out with a message about appearance.

792

You, I hope already know this, dear

listener, but please, please, please

793

don't send sexual pictures or images

or like critical or off color remarks.

794

Okay.

795

Next, Really be sensitive to

and accommodating of safety

796

concerns and sensitivities, okay?

797

Especially if you're interacting

with someone who comes from

798

a marginalized group, okay?

799

So, for example, if you are sort of trying

to connect with a woman, uh, a BIPOC

800

LGBTQ, uh, person, disabled individual,

somebody in a larger body, chances are

801

these people have been, unfortunately,

verbally or even physically assaulted

802

at some point in their life, and they're

going to be more reticent to give you

803

their phone number, meet at a private

location, accept a ride home from you.

804

Be kind about that.

805

Don't take it personally.

806

Be a yes to whatever they

need to do to feel safe.

807

Okay?

808

And if you are safety conscious, it's

okay to, for example, use a Google number.

809

Okay.

810

Or to stay on the app rather than

giving them your number to text.

811

Totally okay.

812

There are some of the apps you can

video call within the app even.

813

Next, don't express upset if someone

doesn't respond to your message.

814

Don't be that.

815

Don't be that person.

816

Yep.

817

And don't ask for feedback

if you haven't met someone.

818

Every once in a while, people

will, if they've been rejected in

819

some way, reach out and say, Hey,

I'd really like some feedback.

820

It doesn't really make sense if

that person actually hasn't been

821

with you in person, and it can

feel like a little bit of a...

822

Overask, I think.

823

Along those lines if you go on a

date with somebody and they decide

824

they don't want to go on another

date, don't hound them for feedback.

825

Okay?

826

So if you ask for feedback and they don't

get back to you, don't repeat yourself.

827

And if they give you feedback that

isn't particularly satisfying, it

828

doesn't really give you a lot of

information, don't follow up with

829

questions or sort of like, you know,

pestering them for more information.

830

Just leave it as it is.

831

Josh: You're going to save yourself

some likely pain and heartache.

832

Yeah.

833

And, uh, and just respect what

they feel comfortable sharing.

834

Jessica: Yeah.

835

I think it's good to keep in

mind, like, the person that you're

836

interacting with could be your

future partner's best friend.

837

Okay.

838

Josh: I like that way of holding it.

839

Yeah.

840

Jessica: Yeah.

841

So, treat them with the

utmost respect and care.

842

I mean, I hope you do that anyways

because we should do that with human

843

beings, but you know, with online

dating, I think it's easy to get to

844

a place of like, I don't know, we

don't, I don't really know this person.

845

What does it, what does it matter?

846

Yeah.

847

Josh: Easy to kind of dehumanize

people pretty quickly.

848

Yeah.

849

Jessica: Another one is you might

want to avoid sending messages really

850

late at night, particularly if you're

looking for something long term.

851

Okay.

852

Because it can land as kind

of like booty call ish, right?

853

In terms of actual dates that

you get scheduled, if you need to

854

reschedule or cancel, give plenty

of notice and make a concrete redo

855

plan as soon as possible, okay?

856

So this is often a really great

opportunity for a phone call.

857

Call them up or send a voice

memo saying like, I am so sorry.

858

Okay, because chances are they

have been stood up for a date or

859

canceled on multiple times by people.

860

So you really want to communicate

to them like, this really isn't what

861

I typically do in a relationship.

862

Okay.

863

The next one probably won't

be too surprising, which is

864

please don't ghost other people.

865

It's so painful.

866

Yeah.

867

If you're tempted to say you're

busy or you need to reschedule

868

instead of I'm just not interested,

just see if you can be honest.

869

Um, maybe talk to a friend or your.

870

So, therapist or coach to practice

being assertive in that way.

871

Josh: You're actually, it may sometimes

feel like you're causing more pain by

872

letting them know you're not interested,

but it's easier to know that someone

873

is not interested and have that

certainty than to just have somebody

874

abandon you with no explanation.

875

Mm hmm.

876

Uh, that, that is very painful.

877

Yes.

878

Jessica: Okay, and then lastly, let's

talk about kind of like etiquette around

879

communication before and after dates.

880

And this actually just

applies to all dating.

881

It's not just online dating,

but let's go over it anyways.

882

Before a date, on the day of the date,

confirm that you're going to see them.

883

By text, phone, or email, however

you're communicating at that time,

884

let them, you know, confirm the time

and location, express excitement,

885

I'm looking forward to seeing you.

886

When you're on your way, communicate

that you are on your way and give your

887

ETA, and then after a date, send a follow

up text or call to thank the person

888

for their time, for getting together if

they paid or planned, thank them very

889

specifically for that If you didn't set

up another date at the end of that date

890

and you're interested, tell them that.

891

Tell them you enjoyed yourself

and propose another date.

892

Just go ahead and do it,

regardless of what your gender is.

893

And then if you're not interested,

communicate that directly.

894

So you might say something

as simple as, Thank you for

895

spending time with me last night.

896

Didn't feel like we were quite a

match, but I'm wishing you the best

897

in your search for your person.

898

Simple, sweet.

899

You, you're leaving them

with a sense of closure.

900

And again, if they're your future

partner's best friend, you are

901

gonna have ideally or hopefully

a really positive reference.

902

Mm-hmm, in the future.

903

iF somebody does push back when you say no

to more dates, just repeat what you said.

904

Don't respond.

905

Unmatch.

906

And that's all I've got for etiquette.

907

Josh: Beautiful.

908

I love it.

909

It feels like it in some ways boils

down to treat this person like they're

910

either your future partner or your future

partner's best friend to help them stay

911

human in your eyes in the midst of meeting

potentially a lot of different people.

912

And over communicate almost about

availability, about plans so that

913

there's not that opportunity for,

uh, something to get missed and

914

in the absence of information,

the brain to fill in a negative

915

interpretation of what's happening.

916

Jessica: That's right.

917

All of that's going to help you

build such a secure foundation.

918

And keep in mind, a lot of

people who are dating have been

919

stood up, have been ghosted.

920

There's, they've gone through a lot of

really difficult dating things, so it's,

921

it's kind of like, taking care of them

around any dating PTSD they have, right?

922

You're being particularly careful to

be present, engaged, and communicative.

923

Josh: Love it.

924

Well, did we do it?

925

I think we did it.

926

Alright, that's all for today.

927

You can find the show notes with links

to all the resources we mentioned in

928

this episode at RelationshipCenter.

929

com slash podcast.

930

Jessica: Yes, and dear listener, if

something in this episode touched you,

931

will you please send it to a friend?

932

That would mean the world to us because

it would allow us to connect with the

933

sweet humans who you are connected with.

934

Thanks so much.

935

Josh: And until next time, we love you

936

Jessica: too!

937

Bye!

938

Bye!

939

Bye

940

bye!

941

Bye bye.

942

Bye bye.

943

Goodbye, dear listener.

944

Goodbye.

945

So long.

946

Josh: So

947

Jessica: long, dear listener.

948

I have loved the time

we have spent together.

949

I have treasured it.

950

Josh: And now I shall

951

Jessica: go on.

952

Why does it sound like this

character's, like, about to die?

953

Josh: It feels like they're about to die.

954

Yeah.

955

Saying their last, their last,

uh, goodbyes to this world.

956

Jessica: Farewell.

957

Dear world of online dating

958

Josh: I have enjoyed our time together

959

Jessica: Now I shall rest in the

eternal slumber of the beyond