For the 40th episode, Dan, Suzana, and Flavio return to Atlanta, Georgia, to celebrate seven years of Spiritist Conversations. After a trip down memory lane, they engage in a timely conversation about war- of all kinds- with guest Edward Christie from New York.

Welcome to Spiritist Conversations number 40.

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I think that's the number, right?

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We believe so.

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We believe so.

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A show where we sit down with

friends, literally today, to talk

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about the world through an informal,

unscripted, and unplugged way.

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And I am Dan, we have Flavio, we

have Susanna, and we have our friend

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Edward here today, and we're going

to introduce him in a little bit.

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But before we do that, we just

want to go back a little bit to

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our origin story because today, as

you can see, if you're watching us.

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We are winging this as we often

do, but why are we doing that?

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Flavio Zanetti: I was

going to say, what changed?

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So we always do it.

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So, but the reason why we're doing this

is here is because we are from, we are

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in Atlanta, Georgia right now, where

everything started exactly seven years

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ago, the whole universe started seven

years ago, our universe, our universe, or

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the universe of spiritist conversations

started here in Atlanta, Georgia.

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Seven years ago,

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Suzana Simões: what do we

remember from that day?

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Flavio Zanetti: We were in a

much better place than this.

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. We had a table.

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That is true.

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We had chairs, Uhhuh, and

uh, now we're just winging it

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Dan Assisi: Today.

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We don't have chairs or tables.

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We're couches.

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Flavio Zanetti: Just couches

and the chair for friend Edward.

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And, uh, here we are, walk into

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Suzana Simões: that room and

start talking about something.

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Flavio Zanetti: Let's talk about

Spiritism and then all of a sudden.

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Why don't we make

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Dan Assisi: this a podcast?

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Daniel Acosta,

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Suzana Simões: you guys.

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There was no podcast

at the time, I'm sorry.

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Why don't we make it into a conversation?

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A conversation, yeah.

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Podcast

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Flavio Zanetti: was just

starting back then, I think.

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Dan Assisi: No, I don't think so.

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And the reason why was because

Whenever we met at different

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conferences, we would end up chatting

afterwards and have so much fun.

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So, I decided to buy a microphone,

which I had never really used before.

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We brought it, took it in the computer.

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We recorded our first episode

because you guys couldn't run

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away from that room, I think.

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I think I kind of like

locked us in or something.

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You guys were so nice about it.

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And I also remember this.

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We recorded a whole hour of the thing.

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Only to find out that it

did not record, so we had

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Flavio Zanetti: to do everything again.

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Again.

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That I remember.

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That you remember?

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That I remember, yes.

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You

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Dan Assisi: remembered

every word, I'm sure.

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If you ever listen to episode number one,

um, just let you know that the first pass

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was way better than the second pass that

we did, which you all need to listen.

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Flavio Zanetti: Amateurs.

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I can't believe that.

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But

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Dan Assisi: what I think is really

exciting and I'm thankful for, Um,

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obviously I'm very thankful to making new

friends along the way like Edward today.

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We're going to introduce him in a little

bit, but I'm also very thankful to

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Flavia and Susanna who have agreed to

embark on this crazy journey when we do

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this podcast that became later video.

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Um, and it has had over 40, 000 plays.

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At this point in time,

which is pretty cool.

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Almost 50, 000.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, I think so.

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You know, I got to look at the numbers,

but, um, clearly you can do that.

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You can see that we don't do a

great job of promoting this thing

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or keeping track of how far we

get, but we do have tons of fun.

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And so thank you, Flavia and

Susanna for, for agreeing to, to

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learn with me, to teach me, to

share your perspectives on things.

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And it's been seven years.

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It's kind of crazy.

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Suzana Simões: Unbelievable, right?

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I would never, I think.

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Pot that would go that far.

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No.

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That we would keep doing for so many years

and thank you for buying the microphone.

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You know it's funny

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Dan Assisi: enough.

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It made it all possible.

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Yeah, and you know had I known I

would have borrowed one of Flavio's

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microphones because I think he had

the same microphone that I Bought.

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Yeah, right.

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Yeti,

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Flavio Zanetti: right?

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It was a Yeti.

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Yeah, I think it was one of those.

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But,

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Dan Assisi: uh, but anyways the the

premise has not changed and the idea

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is we sit down with friends really In

an unplugged way with no pre conceived

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like speech or talk or points.

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And we just share with each other our

perspectives on a particular topic.

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Flavio Zanetti: It's almost like having

a conversation at a, you know, at a

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restaurant or running each other down

the middle of the street, grab a cup

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of coffee and then end up talking,

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Dan Assisi: right?

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Yeah, Spiritist Conversations because

I don't know if you remember this.

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No.

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But people would sometimes after

our sessions come back and say, Hey.

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Like, you know, from the audience, are you

guys going to have the conversation again?

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Right.

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And so we're like, hold on a second.

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If they're asking where we're going to

be, like, you know, maybe we record this.

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Maybe there's more people who

actually want to listen to it.

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Right.

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And we were very original with our name.

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As you can tell the marketing

department really was.

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You know, I work.

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M.

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I.

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A.

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Flavio Zanetti: Spiritist Conversation.

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Marketing department do not exist.

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Still doesn't exist, by the way.

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You had a low budget.

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Dan Assisi: As you can see, if

you're watching us, very low

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budget, but we know that's not

what matters at the end of the day.

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It's really the opportunity to be

together and engage with topics that could

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benefit from a spiritual perspective.

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And

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Flavio Zanetti: along the

way, make new friends.

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Speaking of new friends, Edgar Christie.

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Hello, welcome, welcome

to, welcome to our family.

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Dan Assisi: And we are here in

Atlanta again for another conference.

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And today I had the pleasure of hearing

Susana and Flavio and Edward speak.

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And by the way, um, he's going to

share that with you, but Edward is also

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fantastic piano player and musician.

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Um, and we had a lovely time and really

harkened back to the beginning, but

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Edward, tell us a little bit about

yourself and your background for folks

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who are watching and, or listening to us.

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Well,

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Edward Christie: how far

do you want me to go back?

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Flavio Zanetti: Holy!

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Since you were born.

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Dan Assisi: Since you were born.

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Suzana Simões: Um,

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Edward Christie: well

I met Sonya, my wife.

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She was the one who

introduced me to Spiritism.

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And I really took to it.

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And so we've been studying together from,

well we've been married 26 years now.

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It's more like, uh, 28 years

that I've been studying with her.

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And, uh, yeah, and we were lucky

to find an English language

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spiritist center in New York.

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And there are a number of them,

actually, now, so that, that's,

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that's been a great thing.

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Uh, there, and, and in New York,

there, there are actually a number

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of them that are exclusively

English ling, English speaking.

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which is really nice.

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There's a lot of outreach there and,

uh, people are really dedicated.

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I, I, I, I really, all I can say

is I really took to the whole

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idea of Spiritism and it's a topic

of conversation in our house.

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We, we open up the books, we

find things to talk about, uh,

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over breakfast coffee and things.

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So it, it, we keep it alive

very, very much in the house.

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Suzana Simões: Wonderful.

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Which group do you, uh, are you part of

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Dan Assisi: in New York?

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Um,

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Edward Christie: right now

I'm a part of IESS, the Inner

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Enlightenment Spiritist Society.

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Mm hmm.

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And, um, yeah, we, we run the

Joana de Angelis study, which

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is a weekly study that we do.

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There, so right now we're studying

the psychology of gratitude book.

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Fantastic.

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Yeah.

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It's a wonderful book.

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We've gone through the existential

conflicts Uh, and, and what was, I

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was trying to remember the other one.

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It's so long ago

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Dan Assisi: now.

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Yeah, and the spirit Durana Jandil

is, is an incredible spirit who

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has a wonderful books and teachings

generally centered around psychology.

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Right.

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Eventually we have in our, in our plan

to do an episode on her so that folks can

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have some context, but Um, it's really

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Edward Christie: deep work.

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Yes, and especially the

psychology of gratitude.

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There's, we, we had to learn a lot

about Carl Jung and all of his ideas

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in order to, to really understand.

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Of course, we're all amateurs at it,

which is good because the pressure

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isn't on, um, for us to learn.

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So we all learn together.

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And yeah, it's, it's been, it's

been fun for that reason, fun,

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maybe that was the wrong word.

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Rewarding.

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Rewarding, I think.

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Dan Assisi: And thanks for joining us

because we might need a little bit of

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that psychological insight to make sense

of these difficult times that we live in.

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Um, we were chatting beforehand,

what should we talk about today?

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And I think episode 40.

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is about war because we know

that we have these challenges

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going on around the globe.

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Just a couple of days ago, we also

have the situation with Hamas in the

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Gaza Strip and Israel and everybody

is really concerned about that on

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top of Ukraine and all the different

things that are happening in Africa.

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So, You know, we figured that we could

probably name this, we'll figure it out.

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But maybe we named this one, war

was what, why, what is it good for?

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Absolutely nothing.

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Do we even need it?

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Do we even need it, right?

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So we maybe want to talk a little

bit about, hey, What's this war

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stuff, why are we singing now,

and how do we navigate that stuff?

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Anybody want to jump in?

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Does that sound good to you?

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Flavio Zanetti: Sounds good.

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Sounds alright.

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I, no, please go ahead.

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No, one

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Edward Christie: of the things that, uh,

that surprised me as I was reading was the

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idea that, um, well, in this case it was

Israel wanting to totally destroy Hamas,

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which, uh, and I thought, how do you?

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Destroy an idea.

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I mean, you're destroying people

hoping that no one will be around

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that has those ideas anymore.

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And you see this, you saw

this after 9 11 was the same.

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Um, you see these same ideas

repeating, and, you know, you

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can't kill an idea, really.

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It just gets passed from one generation

to another, and, so there's a lot of

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stuff we talk about Joan of Angelus.

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There's a lot in the collective

shadow that people are working out.

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Um, certainly that, that area

of the world has been under

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conflict for centuries, for ages.

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Thousands of years.

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And there's something

being worked out there.

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Uh, whatever, well, we could speculate

on what that is, but there is

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definitely something being worked

out there and, and the idea of just

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destroying and hoping that that's

going to solve the problem doesn't

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seem, it seems to be misguided to me.

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Suzana Simões: Short sighted to say

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Dan Assisi: the least.

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Right.

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It's what we've been doing forever, right?

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As a, as a humanity.

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I mean, the trick now is that you have

a state fighting a non state, right?

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So, you know, Hamas is not even a country.

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So it becomes really persnickety,

this idea that you can win the

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war against somebody who is not

even officially recognized as a

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government state piece, right?

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So but I think my point is, war evolves

and no matter what we throw at it,

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it still comes back because there's

something else that's being worked

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out that we haven't quite figured out.

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And it seems like these are moments

where things are bubbling up everywhere.

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Flavio Zanetti: Yeah, but I think if,

if you look at, it's, it's, I, do you

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guys think that we'll ever be able

to understand what goes on in, for

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example, in that conflict, in that

location, that part of the world?

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Or even between Russia and Ukraine

and we're so far removed from that,

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but all of a sudden if you look at

everybody, all of a sudden everybody

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became war, you know, experts or Ukraine

experts or Russia experts or, you know,

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why are we doing this as a society?

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Why

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Suzana Simões: is that happening?

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Yeah.

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And I think, I think to your point, uh,

Flavio, we, we, you know, as a spiritist.

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Um, because, okay, we're talking

about these more recent wars,

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but war has been going on, right?

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So I don't think our intent today is

to narrow, zoom in into a war, but

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I think it's to recognize that the

world has been in a state of war.

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There are many wars going on,

sometimes wars that don't get as much.

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Uh, time on TV and I think recognize that

the way we receive the news is always one

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narrow bias, bias, um, approach to things.

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And we have jumped into conclusions.

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And as you said, become experts and

giving sentences and making judgments.

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And in ways, as we do that with the war

and with anything and everything, the

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realization that we are not necessarily

helping to change the state of things.

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Because every time that you are biased

towards one side or another, I think

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you lose sight of empathy and seeing.

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Everyone as human beings

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Flavio Zanetti: use a very

strong and important words.

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Susanna empathy, empathy only works

if it's present on both sides, you

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cannot, you cannot be empathetic

only with one part of the world.

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We have to be empathetic

with the entire world.

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How do we do that as spiritists?

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Dan Assisi: How do we get there?

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And I think there's also

a distinction, right?

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I think that we can still say

that specific actions, whatever

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they are, because we're not

talking about specific actions.

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They might be perhaps not as

right or wrong and others, right?

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I have two kids, for instance.

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I love both the same and sometimes one

of them beats the other one up, right?

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Or does something and that's wrong, but

doesn't mean that I am going to just focus

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on that action and say that's a bad kid.

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I think that what I really like about

what you're saying, Susana, is sure that

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regardless of who started it, or who's at

fault for that particular reason, there

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is an underlying tension and challenges

that we have not been able to resolve.

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And whether you call that arrogance

or, you know, whatever it is that

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you want to do, you should say like,

we're going to go physical on this

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thing because I am not going to yield.

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I'm right.

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You're wrong.

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And I'm just going to go over you because

they're more powerful than you are.

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That's a very human thing, right?

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And we're going to let our fighting do

the talking because we cannot agree.

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Or I think just, or maybe I just simply

think that I don't even want to talk

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to you because I think I'm stronger.

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I'm just going to pummel you and do it.

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Right.

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But that behavior is, I think

is the challenging piece, right?

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Because Earlier today, we were having

a conversation as well, and we were

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equating, and I think maybe we can pick

that up, is that that kind of thinking

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that we see out in the world, and we

think it's like Ukraine and Russia and

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Palestine and Israel, yes, that too, but

that also happens in our homes, right?

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That also happens in our

streets and our neighbors.

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. So we have this inability to figure

things out that escalates, right?

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Either to a fist fight in your

neighborhood or, you know, slaps

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in your house or, or, or hurtful

words in your house to missiles

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and airplanes in countries and, and

that is the difficult piece, right?

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Sometimes that we don't see

that we are, we're feeding.

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This kind of thought process on that.

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We need to change that.

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Flavio Zanetti: How do we change that?

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What's the mechanism that's going to

allow us to change that common thought?

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I have.

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I have an idea.

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Go on.

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Imagine.

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Imagine he has an

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Dan Assisi: idea for once.

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He's going to start playing

devil's advocate all the time

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Flavio Zanetti: asking questions.

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If you follow us, you're going

to see that I always play devil's

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advocate in some of the comments.

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But now let me just throw my first idea.

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And if you

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Dan Assisi: don't follow

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Flavio Zanetti: us, why not?

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Exactly.

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You're missing out.

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You're totally missing out.

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Hit that subscribe button on

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Dan Assisi: YouTube.

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Um, do the podcasting on whatever podcast.

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Flavio Zanetti: Subscribe to

whatever podcast tool that you use.

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SoundCloud, we're available in

every single, you know, form.

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What I was going to say is,

thanks to Spiritism, we have

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knowledge about reincarnation.

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So, everything that we do

There's a consequence, correct?

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Who would be, without making any

predictions, if those actions

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are causing harm on others, we're

responsible for those actions.

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How are we going to fix those

actions, or repent and correct

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those actions in the future?

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So it's very likely that in this life,

I'm born in one location of the world,

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In the next life, I may be born in a

different place or different part of the

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world, but imagine if I am in conflict or

I was in conflict with that part of the

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world, then I'll be born in the next life.

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Dan Assisi: And regardless of

whether you're born, right?

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The whole thing of like, you started it.

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It's not an argument, right?

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It's a very juvenile thing.

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Well, I beat Susanna up,

but she started it, right?

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Like, at what point does

this also stop, right?

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Who's going to be the adult in the room

and say, yeah, what you did wasn't great?

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But I'm not going to

come back and pummel you.

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And I think that this is very, you

know, I want folks to hear that I get

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that is very hard for us to understand

that at a national level, right?

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Because there's pride and

there is fear, safety, and all

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those things coming to place.

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But at some point in time,

as a, as a race, right?

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As humanity, we've got to figure it out.

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For me, Flavio, I agree with you.

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I think that reincarnation is

the thing that at least helps me.

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Like figure things out a little bit,

because if we don't solve this now, we're

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going to have to come back and do exactly,

and I think I got a hunch that we've been

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doing this for a couple of centuries,

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Flavio Zanetti: right?

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So one part, we're in this part

of the, uh, the, the conflict.

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Another part, we're in that part

of the conflict or in this life

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from here, that life from there.

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So why do I make sense of it?

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How do I make

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Suzana Simões: sense of it?

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So we have to, um, and this is a, an

incredible opportunity for us to, for

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us who consider ourselves Christians,

right, to ask what is it that we

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have learned from the gospel, from

the way Jesus, um, act while he was,

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uh, with us that we can take home

and we can, uh, put into practice.

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So, it's just very incredible and

challenging that he came to take

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love to another level when he

invited us to love our enemies.

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And the gospel is very clear because

it says, it doesn't mean you're going

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to bring the enemy into your house, but

it means that you are not going, you're

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going to refrain yourself from harming

the enemy, from retaliation, and so

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how can we point fingers and blame and

accuse governments and countries when,

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going back to what Dan said, right?

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In our own homes, in our daily lives.

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We continue to embrace the law, the

old law of an eye for an eye, right?

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So it is exactly, we are being invited

to be so disgusted by the, the current

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situation that it's almost like the,

the life is telling us, Hey, can you

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realize that this way of living where

we are nurturing and feeding hate?

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We'll just lead to the

destruction of everyone.

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It's not bringing any good.

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So we are actually invited to, to grow

up, to leave those teenager's years

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and to understand that we need, at some

point, one sign needs to rise above,

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needs to introduce something different.

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We are invited to be the, the, the

end of this vicious cycle of hatred of

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retaliation of an eye for an eye and this

invitation has been over there for us

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for over 2000 years and again I think we

need to take individual responsibility

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for what is happening in the world.

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See, the thing is that it's not a

Palestinian or Israeli or Russian or

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Ukrainian, it's everyone's problem,

it's everyone's business and we need

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to take personal responsibility for

what is happening by trying You know,

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making a difference in our day-to-Day

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Dan Assisi: lives.

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Yes.

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Because we seem to forget this.

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He's enlightened right now.

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Yes.

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I'm getting the light.

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You feeling?

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Are you praying it over there?

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I'm getting the light.

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Got it.

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Flavio Zanetti: The uh, yes, I feel it.

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Dan Assisi: I can feel it.

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Yeah.

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I'm gonna set you up.

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It's coming

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Flavio Zanetti: down.

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Set you up for a second.

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It's coming, but now, now I'm gonna

play my role that I play all the

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Dan Assisi: time.

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Yes.

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But hold on before you

do that really quick.

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Alright, go ahead.

431

He was gonna say something,

say, I wanna say yes to all she

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said, and I think the point is.

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We fantasize this idea that

countries fight countries, right?

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But it's really people.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, right?

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It's somebody with a certain mentality

and a mindset that came to power within

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that country or a group of people and they

have carried out their personal of Dealing

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with the world into the national level

and because they have that platform they

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took that action so I think that we feel

like these are complex things, but it's

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people deciding to have wars and On behalf

of their countries with other people.

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So if we can work on people and I, I'm

going to be a little bit jaded here and

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say, you know, the people who are in power

right now, we're not fixing those people.

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It's not going to happen,

but can we work on our kids?

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Can we work on ourselves so that

we know how to deal with conflict?

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We are more accepting so that we

can figure our stuff out before

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we get into levels of power.

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Right?

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Where we are just

repeating the cycle that we

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Flavio Zanetti: see now.

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I think even before dealing with

conflict, I think what we can do as

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parents is teaching our kids to look

at the differences, embrace those

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differences, and not look at those

differences from a many cases, you

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know, a perspective that if it's not

like me, therefore it must be wrong.

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Because there's so much, so many

differences out there in the world.

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That if we embrace inclusion since early

ages, there's so many pictures I've seen.

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One that really touched me a lot

was a picture of two kids, two

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boys, one Palestinian, one Israeli.

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You can see from their

heads, hugging each other.

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Their backs, you can only see their backs.

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Because kids, they don't have

an issue with each other.

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That's learned behavior, right?

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It's a learned behavior.

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It's a thought.

465

It's a thought behavior, learned

behavior that happens afterwards.

466

But if we teach our kids to be

strong, to embrace differences,

467

right, to go out there and help

each other, hopefully the future.

468

Of our world, it would

be a different place.

469

Edward Christie: Yeah, but that requires

for the parents to have that awareness,

470

because, uh, there's a saying, how you

do anything is how you do everything.

471

So if in the house, just among

family members or neighbors or who

472

you work with, you're fighting, that

is, that's, that's an indication.

473

Yeah, it won't, it won't be

contained within the house.

474

It will leak out to

475

Suzana Simões: everything.

476

And that brings, um, the topic

of the importance of healing.

477

Yes.

478

As a, as a primary cell of society where,

you know, we need to, because we're

479

always seeking for short term solutions.

480

But when it comes to that, I

think there's only a long term

481

solution, and the long term solution

is the education of the soul.

482

Right.

483

Is the introduction of the concepts of the

gospel, of the concepts of immortality.

484

So we really have to alphabetize

our humanity here on this planet.

485

We have to.

486

Um, again, uh, ourselves as adults,

our children, the more that we

487

can become true immortalists, in

other words, bring immortality to

488

anything and everything that we do.

489

That's a long term solution

because when we are truly under the

490

immortalist paradigm, things change,

things change, things change, right?

491

Dan Assisi: Because war makes sense

from a materialist perspective, right?

492

Because I go over there and I

kill you and I think it's over.

493

Yeah, from a materialistic perspective,

I think I won and I solved the problem.

494

Little do we know.

495

Little do we know, or actually,

lots do we know, right?

496

Nowadays, after 160 years, for

instance, of Spiritism, where we

497

have been learning about mediumship

and the interchange between worlds,

498

which has always taken place.

499

But with the mediums book we got more

like a treatise that's more Democratic

500

anybody can learn about mediumship they

want to from that we know that we go

501

on I think it's very important at this

point and if you go on if I go on When

502

I kill you our troubles are not over

503

Flavio Zanetti: So are you suggesting

we have the intelligence to create,

504

you know, weapons and all those things?

505

We have the emotional intelligence

to control our actions, but are we

506

missing a spiritual intelligence?

507

Dan Assisi: Well, I would say, I

think that's a beautiful distinction

508

you make, but I'm, I'm, I might

like, I don't know, the jury is

509

out on the emotional intelligence.

510

I don't think we

511

Flavio Zanetti: can control our actions.

512

Maybe emotional intelligence

are not there yet.

513

Yeah.

514

But I mean, if we take

this to the next level.

515

In a way that, hey, you can kill

your enemy now, but maybe next

516

you're going to go back as the enemy.

517

Dan Assisi: Well, yeah, but I

think that's my point is, would we

518

behave this way if I knew, like,

I'm going to pick on poor Edward.

519

Like, if I go and kill Edward, right,

but would I do that if I knew that

520

once he is, his physical body's

dead, he may come after me in the

521

spiritual world, or he may reincarnate.

522

Like, would I think twice?

523

Is that a strong enough reason

for me to start to double

524

think and say, You know what?

525

This whole killing thing, it is

not the same It ain't gonna work.

526

to this problem because I might kill

you now, but then you can come back

527

and, uh, you know, kind of try to kill

me next time or try to harm me from

528

the other side kind of thing, right?

529

We know this happens.

530

Topic for another conversation.

531

But I wonder if that is enough and

that's the beginning of You know what?

532

I think it's the beginning.

533

We can do this because it never ends.

534

It

535

Flavio Zanetti: never ends.

536

I think it's the beginning.

537

That awareness of the spiritual,

you know, beings that we are.

538

We're not physical beings with a spirit.

539

We're spiritual beings in

a body, in a physical body.

540

That means I'm in this body right now,

in the next life I'm in a different body,

541

or even in between lives that I have no

physical body per se, I'm still in contact

542

with you, with you and anybody else.

543

There's still the connections.

544

Emotional connections,

affinity and whatnot.

545

So, killing is not the solution.

546

War is never the solution.

547

Edward Christie: Well, as Daniel

says, um, you know, that, that is the

548

lowest level, what you're suggesting.

549

You know, I'm going to, I'm

going to suffer in the end.

550

So, what you're doing is, uh, operating

from fear, which is something.

551

It's the beginning of something, right?

552

It's the lowest level.

553

You know, the highest would be Love.

554

I wouldn't kill this person

because I see their value.

555

I see them as a child of God,

but we probably can't do that.

556

Dan Assisi: At our level of

selfishness, we're still very much

557

worried about what's in it for me.

558

And the thou shall not kill.

559

Right?

560

Is the beginning, because thou shalt

get in trouble, is the beginning of, if

561

you're not here yet, all the way to the

top, if you don't have that empathy yet,

562

you've got to start at the lowest level.

563

Edward Christie: Right.

564

And I think what Susanna said

was reminding me, uh, because

565

we're both talking about family,

and being a parent is a mission.

566

Our mission, for most of us, certainly

here, is not to resolve the issue.

567

In the Ukraine, or in the Gaza

Strip, or anything like that, our

568

mission is, as parents, and to teach

our children, um, A different way.

569

Yes.

570

So, you know, we can, we can make our

focus, we can have an opinion about what

571

goes on in the world, and forget what

we're, what we're really meant to do here.

572

To, to resolve, to, to

fulfill our, our mission as a

573

Dan Assisi: parent.

574

Well, now that we solved

the world's problems.

575

Suzana Simões: We just did.

576

I just want to, um, before coming

to the final solution, uh, go

577

on on, uh, what you were saying.

578

And bring one more aspect, because I do

think that The understanding that, you

579

know, not only life does not end, but

all the repercussions that come with, uh,

580

healing or suicide and, and, and things

like that, um, You know, operating from a

581

place of, uh, fear and, and understanding.

582

I think there's more and, and, and I,

like you're saying, um, love, right?

583

I think that we have to really

commit ourselves to learn

584

to love and learn to love.

585

By that, I mean that we are still.

586

Loving the ones who are like

exactly like just like us.

587

Yeah.

588

So I like the idea of respect being

love with worth associated with work.

589

In other words, you think

differently than me.

590

We may not agree, but the fact that you

think differently, or perhaps you behave

591

differently, does not diminish you.

592

You remain someone who is worth it.

593

Worth it of belonging, worth it of love,

of recognition, of being seen, right?

594

So, a lot of times we'll say to someone,

Oh yeah, I respect you, but deep inside,

595

Deep inside, the feeling is, well, but,

596

Dan Assisi: you

597

Suzana Simões: know, you don't know any

better, and I'm better than you, that

598

feeling, so, you know, that is, so that

is something very basic because the, the

599

consequences, the way that this unfolds

is, um, when people feel that they are

600

not valued as human beings, you know, a

lot of times what triggers and generates

601

is, Aggression and hostility is shame.

602

People feel deeply humiliated.

603

And that is a lot of times what's

going to bring that anger, destructive

604

anger, because they can't bear, they

cannot bear the feeling of being

605

so diminished, oppressed, you know?

606

So I think that here lies the incredible

spiritual work challenge ahead of us as

607

humanity, you know, to really invest.

608

And again, going back.

609

This starts within our homes

because a lot of times education

610

is done through humiliation.

611

Our kids are humiliated in the way we

speak to them, in the way we address them.

612

So it's, it's just, uh, it

feels a little bit overwhelming

613

right now as I'm speaking.

614

Dan Assisi: It does.

615

Help me out.

616

It does, right?

617

And I would say even before

shame, I think there's tons of

618

flavorings from insecurity, right?

619

Uh huh.

620

Because we are all insecure.

621

We're all, like, not completely sure of

our abilities and our worth in the world.

622

We all have our moments where

we, we, we hesitate, we question,

623

we wonder if we're enough, we're

doing the right thing, right?

624

And then when the other, who may be

distant from us, comes and, for their

625

own reasons, tries to assert their, their

knowledge, because they want to feel

626

good about themselves and they don't

know how to do it other than putting

627

somebody else down, right, because

then they feel like they're actually

628

not, not bad, they're okay, right?

629

Uh, then it all starts and Shane

kicks in and all that kind of stuff.

630

But, you know, I also want to

acknowledge that we are going to have

631

those feelings sometimes and those

thoughts and I'm gonna judge you, right?

632

And say, I know, I know

better than you kind of thing.

633

But in that moment, have the decency

to swallow it up and be a good human

634

being and say, I'm thinking about

that, but I'm not going to act on that.

635

Right.

636

Until we get to a point.

637

Where I can work on no longer having

those feelings, but, but it's like,

638

we're going to have those feelings,

but at the very least, from a social

639

perspective, we got to make sure that

we're not acting on those feelings.

640

Right.

641

Because I think that we're still far

away from, from being in a place where

642

we truly have the empathy that we

talked about that you were mentioning.

643

That is true.

644

Right.

645

But, but I think that the shame piece,

like you say, is really important because.

646

We also have to ask ourselves, why, why

should I be shameful about this, right?

647

Why does it matter what

other people think?

648

So there's all things that we can

unpack from, from, from their piece.

649

But there's a lot of stuff, like, there's

a lot, there's a lot of outer work to be

650

done, but there's a lot of inner work,

651

Edward Christie: right?

652

I, uh,

653

Flavio Zanetti: I actually saw a

quote from your wife, Nicole, if

654

you're watching us, hello, that,

uh, she wrote on, uh, social media.

655

Uh, we cannot compete because I

want you to succeed the moment we

656

won the moment we won everybody

to succeed, not only ourselves.

657

I think it's the start of

the, of the, of the change.

658

Dan Assisi: A rising tide

lifts all boats, right?

659

It's a win win situation, which goes

to the scarcity thing that, you know,

660

you're talking about earlier today,

Susana, we have this idea that there's

661

only a limited amount of goodness

or some, whatever it is out there.

662

And then we've got to fight for

each other with each other for that.

663

But the truth is, you know, we can

always been creating more things.

664

So there is a, there is a point where

maybe when we go back to the immortality

665

of the soul, when we realize that

we're more connected than we imagined,

666

we stopped seeing each other as

competitors and we really see, Hey.

667

Today, you lift me up.

668

Flavio Zanetti: Tomorrow,

I'll lift you up.

669

And vice versa.

670

Right?

671

Yeah.

672

It's tough because the

world is a little heavy.

673

So if you want to lift us

up, maybe the two of you.

674

Dan Assisi: But here's the

interesting thing, right?

675

So now that we solved the

world's problems almost, um, like

676

what is, what is war good for?

677

Because I think in the divine

planning of the world, you can

678

kind of say, you know what?

679

This war is a failure, is a problem.

680

Yes, it all to all of that.

681

These are choices that were

made and they're helpful.

682

But is there something

that we can learn from

683

Edward Christie: war?

684

Oh, sure.

685

Yeah, I mean, war, to me, is, it's a clear

indication that there's something been

686

bubbling inside of us for a long time.

687

Because it, people would

never give in to something.

688

I, I really, truly believe that.

689

Maybe I'm too optimistic about human

nature, but I can't imagine that people

690

would be willing to destroy without

some, something that's going on inside.

691

So people push down, push down, push

down, push down, and eventually,

692

That, um, that surfaces in some way.

693

So, so if it comes to that point,

if it's really a war, that's

694

the time to look inside and say,

how, how did it come to this?

695

Dan Assisi: That's a good point.

696

Like, nobody wakes up and says, you

know, I had a wonderful day yesterday.

697

I'm not going to go to war today.

698

Edward Christie: Yeah.

699

Right?

700

I just wanted to kill a bunch of people.

701

Who, who are

702

Dan Assisi: we going to

beat up today, right?

703

So I think you got a really great

704

Flavio Zanetti: point.

705

But there are some, there are some

societal benefits sometimes with war.

706

For example, penicillin.

707

Penicillin was invented

after the second world war.

708

Yes.

709

Right?

710

So there, there are a few things.

711

But the question that I have is,

would they justify all the atrocities?

712

That happened

713

Dan Assisi: from wars.

714

They may not but given that they

these atrocities have happened

715

and we cannot change them Can't

go back What can we do right?

716

And I think that we read in the wonderful

and wise answer by the spirits to that

717

question of war in the spirits book

That war helps us I think I'm going

718

to just, you know, paraphrase, but he

helps us be aware that things are not

719

okay and realize that we need to go

forward faster than we were before.

720

Listen, we are moving forward

as a planet, as a society.

721

We can say that, right?

722

I truly believe this.

723

But we've got to move a

little bit faster, right?

724

Because we're not making the progress

that we give ourselves credit for.

725

There's a lot to

726

Flavio Zanetti: change.

727

I think we've made and

we're still making a lot of

728

technological progress everywhere.

729

The area that we're not making a

lot of progress is when it comes to

730

ethics and morals and those things.

731

I think we're still on the

application of the knowledge.

732

Yeah.

733

So, which is great that we have all

these inventions that are enabling

734

us to, for example, sit here and

have a conversation and that being

735

broadcasted, you know, tomorrow with

the entire world, which is awesome.

736

What are some of the things that

we can leverage the technology?

737

To make not only us better,

but humanity better overall.

738

Dan Assisi: That's a great question.

739

I think that as we approach

the beginning of the end No!

740

I know, it goes fast.

741

It goes fast.

742

Um, I think it's great for us

to start thinking about that.

743

So what kind of actions, what

kind of takeaways do we take

744

with us from these situations?

745

And how can each one of

us Um, make a difference,

746

Suzana Simões: right?

747

Yeah, I go back, I go back to what

I said because I think that it's

748

so easy to, to think and to assume

that war is someone else's problem.

749

You know, I think that, and we were

also talking about this a little earlier

750

today, sometimes it's necessary for,

Things to get this horrific to be

751

able to kind of catch our attention

and stimulate us to, to, to do more.

752

You know, so out of these horrible

things, agreements, uh, happen, people

753

are mobilized at the administration,

governmental level, but we, we need to,

754

to also be shaken and take responsibility

and seek to do our part, whether it

755

is, um, you know, You know, working,

I mean, one of the, the, the greatest

756

things, uh, that we can do in this

lifetime is to become better at relating.

757

So, you know, how do we do that, right?

758

So, with inner work, with self knowledge,

understanding of like, you know, I'm

759

angry, I want to kill this person.

760

So, you have to be curious about.

761

What is beneath the anger what is

fueling that anger so Start to to

762

be curious to ask questions to be

proactive to take responsibility And

763

as much as possible um, try not to

be someone who is Fomenting, uh, the

764

war, you know, uh, be the end of it.

765

Don't, don't fuel conversations that bring

separation, that brings more hostility.

766

So those are small, but not such small

things that I think we can start doing.

767

Because people get very anxious

about like, you know, what can I do?

768

You know, and they feel very powerless.

769

But it's not true.

770

We do have power.

771

There are things that we can do

772

Dan Assisi: and I, you know, I'm not

going to add much that i'm a hundred

773

percent in agreement with you And I

think that's how you act locally, right?

774

I think that um You know, peace is

not the absence of conflict, it's

775

the resolution of conflict, right?

776

In a way, that's great.

777

And so it's not about also not

addressing the issues or not talking

778

with people about the challenges we have.

779

That's negligence.

780

That's not peace.

781

That's negligence.

782

That's a great point, right?

783

But it's, it's, it's coming together and

realizing that we do have individual work

784

on conflict resolution, communication, and

all the stuff that we need to do because

785

clearly it's not working out great.

786

Right.

787

Um, and before I pass it on to Flavio,

I should have said this a long time ago.

788

I want to do a shout out

to Renan out in the UK.

789

I was in the UK doing a talk in Burnmouth.

790

Renan, thanks for visiting us,

like South, um, Southwestern UK.

791

Uh, get a listener from Spirits

of Conversation that wants to come

792

and say hello and say, Whoa, great.

793

Um, you know, he came out,

he came by and he said hello.

794

And then, you know what the first

question he asked me was after that?

795

Is Flavio really always that loud?

796

And I said, yes, you should see how

we have to edit his audio levels.

797

Today, you're very not loud at all.

798

So.

799

Um, so thank you right now

for calling that, bringing

800

Flavio Zanetti: that to it.

801

Maybe we're going to call me

to ask me not to be loud today.

802

So we're not a big shout out to you.

803

Thanks for listening and watching us.

804

We have one follower.

805

Yay.

806

We're getting there.

807

Other than your mom.

808

Other than my mom, well, she's falling

from the spiritual, spiritual world.

809

But, uh, I'd like to say that for us

parents, we have to make sure that we

810

are properly educating our kids, as

I said before, to embrace diversity.

811

Because if we don't do that, There's

a small conflict at home, maybe in

812

our neighborhoods, maybe a bullying in

school because somebody else is different

813

in school than they are, than we are.

814

If we don't do that, if we don't

start in our bases, in our homes,

815

the world's not gonna change.

816

Yeah, we cannot change what's

happening in the Middle East

817

right now, or what's happening,

you know, in Ukraine and Russia.

818

That's way too, or far

too removed from that.

819

But we have to start changing ourselves.

820

When we look, for example, at

situations that sometimes are tainting

821

towards one side versus another.

822

Let's take a step.

823

Hang on, hang on.

824

Let's look at this from a, from

a both, both sides perspective.

825

Try to find, you know, information that

really can compare notes on both sides.

826

Because war, nobody wins.

827

You may believe you

win, but you also lose.

828

So nobody's right.

829

That's another point, right?

830

Nobody's ever right.

831

Because doing something wrong, Right.

832

Something, something's done,

something wrong is done to you.

833

Does not give you the right to do

something wrong to somebody else, right?

834

Two wrongs.

835

I guess what I'm trying to say is

two wrongs doesn't make a right.

836

So that's what I, you know, like to

837

Edward Christie: call out.

838

And, and to follow on what you're saying,

and also what Susanna was saying, you

839

know, being curious and being open.

840

We have a lot of opinions.

841

I mean, we, we have an, an

opinion about everything, really.

842

We have opinions about having opinions.

843

Yeah, right.

844

And those opinions are really a

way of shutting down curiosity.

845

Because I think this is the way

this, this, this side should win

846

in the war, or these people are

right and those people are wrong.

847

And really not knowing about that,

that really shuts us down, uh, from

848

learning about ourselves and, uh,

and also from remaining curious.

849

Dan Assisi: And that's maybe a great place

to end our conversation there, but before

850

we do that, Edward, thanks for joining us.

851

Thank you for having me.

852

It's your first time with us.

853

Yes.

854

We love having you.

855

We appreciate your Your thoughtfulness,

your great energy you bring to

856

all conversations, even though

we don't always record them.

857

Um, and for the beautiful music

and art that you come and, uh, the

858

thoughtful, you know, um, intentional,

uh, thinking that you often do when it

859

comes to religion, things in general.

860

Uh, so with that in mind, tell us

a little bit about where, uh, where

861

folks can find you if they want to

know more about you, because I'm sure

862

you're going to love their attention.

863

Edward Christie: Find

864

Flavio Zanetti: me.

865

All of our thousands of followers

are going to go after you now.

866

Edward Christie: I don't know.

867

I'm not, I'm not on any social media,

so I, I wouldn't know how, um, okay.

868

Contact

869

Dan Assisi: you.

870

Contact Dan.

871

Okay.

872

Flavio Zanetti: Let us know.

873

We can, we can, we can, we

can, we can get through Edward.

874

Edward Christie: Yes.

875

They'll, they'll figure out where I am.

876

You'll figure out where I am.

877

Um,

878

Dan Assisi: thanks for being with us.

879

Thank you for inviting me.

880

And thank you, uh, Flavio and Susanna

for a wonderful seven years of impromptu.

881

Infrequent, but

882

Flavio Zanetti: unscripted, unscripted,

883

Dan Assisi: off the cuff,

884

Suzana Simões: right?

885

It's

886

Dan Assisi: working out.

887

Listen, we have no plans

for world domination.

888

We are not trying to crank out

stuff on a schedule because it

889

doesn't always happen that way.

890

These are meant to be real

conversations for important topics.

891

And if you did like any of you want

to be part of our conversation,

892

you can follow us on YouTube.

893

You can follow, uh, you know,

listen to as a podcast and whatever.

894

Podcast platform you would like best when

you're driving, when you are walking the

895

dog or what have you, and of course you

can follow us on social media as well.

896

We just want to thank

you for, for being there.

897

And if you want to know more about

different things that we do connect

898

with us again, thanks for being here.

899

We also want to give a

shout out to our friend.

900

Marcello today.

901

Flavio Zanetti: Yeah,

902

Dan Assisi: Marcello, we basically

co opted to last minute to

903

help us figure this thing out.

904

So thank you so very much, sir, um,

for, for being with us and helping, uh,

905

behind the scenes, figure things out.

906

Thanks everybody.

907

This has been a Spiritist

Institute production.

908

We hope that you've enjoyed it.

909

Check us out and, and we

hope to see you in the next

910

Flavio Zanetti: conversation.

911

And thank you to our

sponsors whenever they come.