Quick update on some fun things this week, Wendy and I will be at the Paradigm Symposium paranormal convention in Minneapolis this weekend, so look out for us and let’s hang out if you’re there!

Also in more fun haunting news, I just launched St. Paul Ghost Walks which is the first haunted history walking tour of downtown St. Paul, Minnesota (I like to call it the Evil Twin) and that launches this Friday the 13th! 

And there’s still time to vote for our band, Sunspot, in the Madison Area Music Awards – if you voted in the first round, it doesn’t cost anything to vote for us in the FINAL round (ends May 19th). If you haven’t voted, it’s five tax-deductible dollars and every penny goes to helping out music education in Madison area schools. It’s a cause we believe in deeply and are proud to have been supporting this charity since the beginning.

This week, I got to take some time to talk to a creator after my own heart, Christopher Saint Booth. As a musician, film producer, and paranormal investigator with a superb sense of style, he and his brother Philip bring glam chic and a distinct sophistication to the world of the weird.

I met Christopher at the Chicago Ghost Conference (Episode 61 of the podcast has our haunted wrap up) when Allison from Milwaukee Ghosts  grabbed a copy of his book, The Exorcist Diary: The True Story, which is an adaptation of the original journal kept by the priest who was performing an exorcism on a boy named Roland Doe, and that was the real-life story that would eventually inspire William Peter Blatty to write the pea-soup barfing, crucifix-humping movie that we all know and love, The Exorcist.

In our conversation, we start with his career as a musician on the Sunset Strip in the late 70s and early 80s and his move into art director on various films (hey man, he got to work on Dreamscape, the film where people could travel into each other’s dreams and we’ve talked about it on this podcast a bunch of times!)

In addition to some fun Hollywood stories, Christopher shares with us some of his real life paranormal experiences that he’s also documented in an autobiographical book called PARANOIA – The Strange Case of Ghosts, Demons, and Aliens.

While he’s always been into horror movies, what I think is interesting is how the brothers stumbled upon becoming paranormal filmmakers. They were filming a movie called Death Tunnel at Waverly Hills Sanatorium in Kentucky, a legendarily haunted hospital that has been closed for decades. In the script, they used the real legends of the sanatarium for inspiration.

But the real show was what was happening behind the scenes. They got so much footage of weird stuff occurring while they were filming that they were able to make a documentary, SPOOKED – The Ghosts of Waverly Hills Sanatorium with weird footage, EVPs, and haunted history of the famous building.

And that documentary led them into a brand new direction, being able to create fictional movies based on the historical legends and then going in depth on the truth behind them, a real mix of the paranormal and pop culture. This was a fun interview full of anecdotes, paranormal tidbits, and a discussion on following your passion, whether it’s musician or filmmaker or gourmet hamburger artist (or a veggie burger artist for me!)

It’s that discussion of living your life with passion that inspired this week’s song, “The Wilderness of Almost Was and Never Were”. Everyone has their own definition of “selling out”, so the trick is to make sure you understand it or someone else will define it for you.

fWhat happened to the kids who got lost in the blur,

The wilderness of almost was and never were.

You used to plan, you used to scheme,

We used to curse the old regime,

What did you surrender. for legal tender,

Was your price more than your dreams?

When they come to you to sell out,

Just promise to put up a fight,

And realize you’ll never be so close as you are tonight.

Drowning in your memory, and you’ll drown right in your hurt,

The wilderness of almost was and never were.

We used to fight and get worked up,

We said up.

What do you remember about your surrender?

Did you get your damn closeup?

When they come to you to sell out,

Just promise to put up a fight,

And realize you’ll never be so close as you are tonight.

When they come to you to sell out,

Just promise to put up a fight,

And realize you’ll never be so close as you are tonight.

Welcome to see you on the other Mike, where the world of

the mysterious collides with the world of entertainment.

A discussion of art, music, movies, spirituality, the

Wendy, and self discovery. And now,

your hosts, musicians and entertainers who have their

own weakness for the weird, Mike and Wendy from the

band, Sunspot.

Welcome back. We're home. We're in Wisconsin. We're not in California

anymore. Back too. And it's been nice weather, so I'm not gonna come back. Oh,

gosh. Yeah. It's Mike summer came. Mhmm. It was here for the weekend,

and now it's winter again. Yep. It's gone. It's back, like, 40 degrees today. So

this well, we got what we No. It's fine. I'm not complaining. It's been great.

I think I think we're over the worst of it. Yeah. Yes.

So, anyway, there hasn't been any paranormal weather over here.

No. No. No Mike travel fog. Nothing like that. No weird clouds.

Nope. But something fun about Wisconsin that

we're doing right now is the Madison Area Music Association

Awards. So fun. Called the Mamas, and the reason why it's fun

is because, you guys could actually help

put instruments in kids' hands and help out with music education in the Madison

area and also do us a real solid. Yeah. We've, we've

talked about it before, Madison Area Music Association Awards. Yes.

And your votes got us into the final. Yes. Thank you

so much. And, we did hear from a lot of you who said you voted

for us. So We appreciate it. You get the credits for us making it into

round 2, and we really, really appreciate it. If you voted for

round 1, you can vote for round 2. You don't have to pay again. Your

your money went into the good cause, and now it's just for us.

Now now you're just doing it because you're a kindhearted, good person. And so

we we really like kindhearted good people. And if you wanna continue to be 1,

just go on for round 2 Yeah. And go in and vote for Sunspot. And

then if you didn't vote for round 1, you can still donate money Yeah. And

and show you the warmth of your heart. And the warmth is it's it's only

a $5 warmth to your heart. So you don't have to worry, like, it's gonna

be draining out or it's it's it's $5. The music goes completely to the

charity, a 100%. The money, all of the proceeds. Right. Goes right to the

charity Yeah. To help children, learn more about music in

Madison, in the Madison, Wisconsin area, and it really is a great is a great

program that we've supported wholeheartedly for the past decade. We

have. And we've seen the good results from it too. We've seen students that have

come up and, like, benefited from that particular charity.

So And then we've seen them at, like, shows and stuff. Right. So it's, like,

it's leading the next generation and how to be awesome. Rockers. So, we'll

have links to that up in the show notes at othersidepodcast.com/91.

But we absolutely appreciate it. If you've already voted, please go in and vote round

2. It doesn't cost you anything. And we have the we'll have the

categories at othersidepodcast.com/91. If you

haven't had a chance to vote yet, don't worry, my friends. It's okay. It is

not too late. You can do that today. That's right. And we're in a

few categories. So, hopefully, at least one of those maybe will

get an award. That would be neat. So it's fun, and it's just a it's

just a fun way to do something cool for charity. Of course, it's tax your

$5 is tax deductible. So that means you can better. You can

stick it to the man too at the same Mike. It's helping out

a band and helping out kids. That's right. Good stuff. Yes.

So what else is going on this week, Mike? It's, this is gonna be Friday

13th coming up. It is gonna be Friday 13th. Yes. Yes. Yep.

That's first Friday 13th of the year, and we are gonna be running

a haunted history tour in Madison. Alright. Excellent.

See that madisonghostwalks.com. Some new stories on that. So if you

guys have gone on it before, you're gonna see some brand new stuff. Cool. And

it's the inaugural Saint Paul ghost walk. Hey. So, yeah.

I've been talking about it for the past couple of months. Congratulations. Thank you very

much. But now it is launching this Friday. The stories

are done. The route is done. Exciting. You know, the guides have

walked it and stuff like that. They've gone over the stories, and it's gonna be

really fun. So Friday 13th 8 PM, Saint Paul ghost walks dot com, and that

will be in the, show notes as well. But you and I are

gonna be in the Twin Cities this week. Yeah. We're gonna be we're gonna be

up there. Something different we haven't done before? Yes. The,

the Paradigm Symposium. And, there's

gonna be a lot of first of all, the keynote speaker is Travis Walton

from Fire in the Sky. Excellent. So he's gonna That's so cool. Yeah. And I

I've heard interviews with voices. He's a really cool guy. So we're looking forward to

meeting him in person. That's great. And, so Travis Walton's gonna be there. Nick

Redfern is, like, a monster hunter that I he's one of my favorites. Cool.

Like, this English guy lives in Texas now, in Dallas, and

I've read all of his books. Wow. And, actually, one Mike,

went to the UK. I took along his book, 3 Men Seeking Monsters. Uh-huh.

And it's these different places that they go Oh, cool. In the UK to search

for, like, legendary, British So you used it

as a trip guide. A little bit of a trip guide. It's like, okay. It's

like Mike in this area. Let's go see where they went and things they checked

out. Let's do that too. Cool. So, Nick referenced there. And I mean,

it is the who's who of

the paranormal at the Paradigm Symposium. Great. So it's gonna be super fun. And you

guys will hear as we bug people there. Yeah. And It'll be Mike you're

with us bugging people. And if you're there, find us. Yes. And say

hello. I don't I don't there's not gonna be, like, a 1,000 people there. So

you'll probably meet us over one of the days. Mike Mendy from

Yeah. Yeah. You know what we look like. Just check the website if Yeah. At

the par I will be at the Paradigm Symposium hanging out, talking to people, checking

out, mixing and matching with the fine people of Twin Cities. I can't wait.

Yep. The fine weirdos up there. We're looking for a That's gonna be I'm really

pumped for that. Yes. So the interview this week, funny enough, is

a guy we talked about in a previous podcast Oh.

Because we checked out his presentation and his stuff at the,

Chicago That's right. Ghost convention. Yep. And

really interesting guy. Like, we talked about, like, he had a cool hat, Mike, a

cowboy look. Yeah. You guys were excited about that. Like, that he was I mean,

not not that not the cowboy hat, but Right. But the fact that it was

another visually interesting person to look at, that they very, had a

cool visual style and, was a really interesting speaker.

Another English guy and just fun to listen to and a and a cool

producer. Awesome. Had a really great conversation with him the other day as we talked

about the latest stuff he's doing and also his personal

brushes with the paranormal and how that's influenced

his filmmaking work. Okay. Well, why don't we take a listen?

See you on the other side. I'm here with film

producer Christopher Saint Booth

who, you know, I'm Facebook friends with this guy and I gotta

say he might rival that dude from the Dos Equis

commercials for the the title of the most interesting man in the

world because I always see him doing awesome stuff.

So thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to join us today,

Christopher. Well, thank you very much. That chap's out of work now,

so not sure if that's a good thing. No. But at

the same time, they're looking for somebody to replace him. So that's something

go. You might wanna consider. Okay. So for

people who might be unfamiliar with your work so far, can

you give a a list a a couple of the the titles you've

had, a privilege to be part of, and some works you've

recently done in the paranormal field? Well, we're

basically, me and my brother are film producers and directors for the Sci Fi

Channel, most recently Discovery and

Destination America, Chiller, which is an NBC

channel. Mhmm. And, we run our own company, distribute our own

products on Amazon and Vimeo and Redbox

and, you know, the the whole concept of distribution. And, basically, we

do nothing but paranormal and scary stuff, which

makes it very fascinating because we're constantly in search of a,

you know, a new idea or a new new way to

look at something that's already possibly been already put out there and finding out the

truth. So it's it's a very incredible adventure. We're

involved in all sorts of music business as well as, feature films

as well. And so that was something that I was also interested in asking

you about as well because I was into music. I've been playing

in a band for what feels like a 100 years. And before I kinda got

into this field and started writing haunted history tours and started doing these

podcasts, and this is episode 91. So if you're listening at home, you can

hear the show notes and see a picture of Christopher's face and stuff like that.

Othersidepodcast.com/91 is where you can

find that. And, so, you

know, you originally were a musician, right, when I was looking you up and everything?

The name of your band was you were in a band called Sweeney Todd for

a while? Yeah. Sweeney Todd was a Canadian band that

had, several Juno Awards and a gold gold

album out. At the time that, I joined the band

that actually I replaced a singer called Bryan Adams. And

Bryan Adams went on to be, you know, the Brian Adams we all know.

Right. He's done a couple of things. Yeah. He's done a few things. And I

took his place as a singer. And that that's where my

professional music career started. And then, of course, I ended up in Los

Angeles and doing my own thing. So when you came over so

you're obviously from the UK originally? Yeah.

And, you know, did you so you came over to the US to make it

as a musician? How at what age did you do that?

About well, I was I was I was touring in Canada when

I I the day I turned 18, I always remember I did my first

big gig in Canada. So, that was

with Sweeney Todd. And then after that,

we, you know, formed our own bands after that band kind of,

you know, took a break. We formed our own bands. And to get to

America was the only way to be bigger in the

music business at that Mike, for us anyway. So we

we went down there about Wendy. 20, 21 years

old is when I started in America in the music business.

Oh, that's that sounds like fun. We my,

Wendy, my drummer, and I, we were just in, Los Angeles last week, and

we're back in Madison, Wisconsin this week. But it's always it's always fun

to go visit the dream factory every once in a while and, you know,

the entertainment business and all the Hollywood stuff.

And and so I can just imagine, getting there, working on your

bands and stuff like that. And as a young man and that must have been,

like, the realization of a dream and everything. It was a rock and roll thing.

I mean I mean, it really was. It was Mike Wendy we landed,

we fought you know, we formed, we've actually brought the band that I was

in and my brother, Philip, from Seattle, which was

called Alley Brat. And we brought them to LA, and then we

started playing, you know, the rainbow, the whiskey, the

Starwood at the time. Starwood is no longer, but that Mike, was a bigger rock

and roll club. And the troubadour, of course. And,

you know, we were Mike a big rock and roll hair glam band.

I mean, that's I think we spent more on on hairspray than we did anything

else at the time. It was in the eighties. Right? Early

early early actually, late seventies, early eighties. And,

bands like, Motley Crue actually

backed us up, which is pretty strange, but they weren't Motley Crue at the time

that everybody, you know, they became. But Motley Crue actually backed us up

and, actually, even you 2 did in a gig we did in Orange

County. Oh, that's awesome. I know. I mean and they were

really nice people. They have to tell you that you 2 tabs were really

nice. But we that's the way we started. And, of course,

that actually when that kinda ran out of gas due to more

creative than anything, we ended up getting into the movie business.

And so when you first started the in the movie business, did did you know

that you were gonna be into, this kind of field

and the weird and unusual and supernatural and stuff? Was that I mean, maybe

we should go back a little bit and say, did you have an interest in

this kind of thing from an early age? Well, no.

I just I mean, the movies you like is kind of the direction that

we took it. You know? Mhmm. We went to Ridley Scott, and

The Exorcist was probably the scariest film that I I've

ever seen and still is in in some ways. And, of course, who would

think that, oh, many I don't even know how many, many

years later that we'd actually be doing filming in the

real Exorcist House, which is bizarre. Right. The scariest

for my business. But, I think we're

just into into looking at things differently. Like a musician,

you know how Wendy you write a track, you have a tendency

to be a a viewer on the side of the road, and

you take in what you feel is the story that you

wanna tell. And I think the stories that we always told were dark.

You know? Mhmm. And, obviously, that matched the horror

of the supernatural vein. So that's kinda even our first film we

did was paranormal, supernatural,

and that was way before we even got involved with the paranormal

documentary, sci fi, and different stuff like that. But

every film we ended up doing seemed to have ghosts in them for some

reason, and I don't know why, but they did. Well, so

so you didn't have something Mike you didn't you didn't see a UFO when you

were a kid or, you know, a lot of people are like, well, I I

you know, it's like, well, why are you into this stuff? And some people will

be like, well, you know what? It's because this old woman used to come into

my room at night and, change my socks. And when I

when I asked my mom about her, there was nobody there. Funny you should mention

that. We did have an have an old

an older lady come into our room, when we were very

young with open eye and visitors, and we were

screaming. We both saw this woman come in. And when we

you know, my mom ran in and opened the door, turned the

lights on. She was gone, and we explained

who she was. And my mom said, well, that's your grandmother,

and she just passed an hour ago.

Oh, man. That was the first, I guess, real

paranormal experience, though. I don't think that stuck, you

know, to make us wanna do it. But then again, maybe it did. I don't

know. But, you know, we, you know, we did I

saw UFOs when I was living in Malibu. And I wrote, you know,

obviously, in my I have a book called Paranoia, which actually

goes through, like, 10 years and

30 different, cases of that I've been involved in

and, like, since I was young, but kind of explains all the

creepiness that I went through. And, of course, it's kind of my point of view

of how the real life works with the afterlife.

But I think, just having a different point of view is

is like being sensitive, and then that is opens you up to

paranormal experience. Well, I think so too. And you'll

you'll notice that, I think that, more of the people who have tend

to have experiences, tend to be the the creative

artistic types. Yeah. Definitely. Like, you know,

women are definitely more sensitive, and and Mhmm. And gentlemen that are gay are

obviously more sensitive. And and everybody that is, like, an artist,

a writer, a poet, a painter, an actor, anybody has

to use emotion to communicate,

or more emotion to communicate is, I think, is gonna be open

to what people can't see because then what it's

open to is what people feel. And then what what you

feel is where the afterlife comes in because, you know, 9 out of 10

times, you feel something before you ever see it. Mhmm. That's if you're

lucky to ever see it. And I think that's a great

no. That's a I think that's a great way to put it. If you deal

in a, an art form where, I mean, a lot of it is emotion

where that's you know, especially we talk about music or we talk about

visual arts and things where so much of it is the feeling.

And, you know, that's when a lot of people have experiences. The

first thing they'll say is, well, this emotion overtook me. So it's

Mike, if a spirit cannot communicate with you

through, like, obviously, showing up and talking or waving high or

something, the one way it can communicate with you is

a feeling. And I and so I I think that's an

awesome point. I haven't I haven't thought about that before that, you know,

Communicating through feelings might be the the the

the first step or but okay. So

you guys start getting into filmmaking. You you have your band, but you have a

lot of hair probably. It's eighties. It's a lot of fun.

And then you kinda you moved skills. Did you start scoring

films, or were you guys already, filmmakers

while you were working on the band? We were we were always a band

even when we did, movies. I mean, I could never

ever put that down. Phil still plays guitar and because I

write all the music to all the productions we do.

And I never put I never gave that up. Just

one I kinda got. I don't wanna use the word bored, but maybe

my creative energy. I think you would probably understand that,

you know, if you're writing a lot of songs and music,

and then you write, you know, obviously, someone you really love, then you feel like,

okay. What's next? And for me, I would take a break, and

I would go do, like, photography or, you know, digital graphics. I

even did a game design where I did 3 d characters for a

while. That's cool. I would just bounce around. I mean, I'd be

in I'd be in, like, basically, a studio room that would have

one you know, computer setup would be 3 d animation that I was

working on, you know, skinning, 3 d figures and stuff,

really, you know, dark looking people. And then on the other one would be

my music studio, and on the other one would be, like, you know, something else

I'd be doing. I'd be, like, in a chair that would, you know, revolve

and just do all three things when I would get bored. And I just you

know, as long as I was creating, it didn't matter to Mike, music or writing

or or photography or whatever. But we

also that magic thing that we all have to do is make

money. Right. That's the top part. I know. I

wasn't making too much money doing Mike at the very beginning.

After, you know, the big bands broke up, I was basically out there

like everybody else paying to play. You know, in the Troubadour,

if you know the Troubadour Mhmm. You know, Santa Monica. That's where Guns

N' Roses just played their first reunion gig.

You know, when we played then, and still to this day, you have to pay

for water, you know, and it's like you have to pay to play. You

have to, you know, guarantee so many people that are

gonna come in and buy a drink to see your band, and they'll let you

play there. You know? And it's basically paid to play, and

so you aren't really making any money. So in order to do

that, we ended up actually,

my brother's ex wife,

father was a director for the Playboy Channel.

Okay. So he had worked, like, as a

PA. And I was actually doing PA work in other films,

like, you know, big films. I was in the art department,

a production assistant on really big films, but I wasn't making very much money at

all, not even $50 a day. And I was doing 12 hours and

lifting really heavy stuff. And but I don't I

was learning the big business from behind the scenes. Actually, that's when it all

started. I found a budget for, you know, a

movie called Dreamscape, which had Eddie Albert in and, Dennis

Quaid in it. Oh, yeah. That's a we've talked about Dreamscape, I think, 3 or

4 times on this show too because that's where they could launch into each other's

dreams, and the guy was trying to kill the president. And Right.

Yeah. Oh, no. I love it. I worked on that movie. I actually

was the guy who taped the lizard guy's tail on.

Awesome. And remember the billboards of the apo

the apocalyptic city when it blew up. Remember that? Oh,

yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I I moved those billboards and, of course, you know, the

dream center, that is, we had to scrape those

floors. That was an old veterans hospital. Uh-huh. It was a 100 month, the,

Wendy. We describe it to make it look like a dream center, and

which is by the way, a lot of this stuff is in my book, paranoia,

because I had paranormal experience while working there,

actually. There was a veteran that was,

an escaped veteran from the new hospital, ran into the old hospital,

and was in the in the basement yelling, I didn't mean to kill you,

Joe. I didn't mean to kill you. Freaky stuff started going on.

I mean, all this crap started going on. But meanwhile, we were you know, that

wasn't paid very well. So we were offered a $125

a day to do whatever we needed to do for

Playbo, which is basically pick up the food or, you know, get to

dry cleaning or whatever they did. You see now that's the kind of movie I

would pay to play to be on. Well, you know,

we all thought that at the beginning. It plays with your

psyche because, being what I think I'm

more of a gentleman or romantic. Sure. I was seeing some horrific

stuff. Not necessarily from the classy films, but,

you know, other people would hire me to work on their movies, which were

truly, serious porno, and it

was horrible to watch for me because I it was

very, against what I felt. You know,

I was not a prude. It's just I had you know, I was the guy

who was, like, running around the set, giving them their robes to

put on because the girls would walk around naked all the time. Someone would go

with them. And I thought, you know, it's a time to get professional and take

your clothes off. It's the time to put them back on too. You know? Mhmm.

But, meanwhile, to make a lot of sense, we did that for a while.

And, because of

our visions of of music and movies, we were asked to

make a film. And then we started making

movies for Playboy. We actually did 86 films for Playboy.

Wow. And That's a that's a that's a that's like somebody's total career right there,

and that, you know, was just a few years for you. Yeah. We did we'd

actually did that in the 3 years. We made 86 films in 3

years. Did you guys get to you guys get to write them and

everything? Phil wrote them, and they were

very romantic. They at that time, Playboy it

was back in the eighties, so Playboy needed a reason to show

nudity. So the only way you could do that on even on cable

television was to have a really good story Sure. And to have good

production value. So And you can have really sexy you can have really

sexy romantic films, you know, too. And and, like, nine and a half weeks and

things like that could they could ride the edge of that and be a good

movie. Yeah. That's what we did, actually. We turned these Playboy films

into erotic thrillers, basically. Because, actually, after

I noticed because, I even did the music for them. So

it's Mike I got when I get in royalty checks, they turned every one of

the films we did into erotic thriller because it was so story

driven and so all of that. But, anyway, we

got basically, we really learned how to make movies at that point

because we were doing 2 a month. But the

business was starting to get really seedy, and the people were getting

seedy. And the story and

the romantic part of it was going out, and it was just getting down to

basically, you know, 1

guy filming himself with 12 girls kinda thing. Right. It

was just where where porno became not odd

anymore. Like, in in in Europe, porno

is art. In America, art is porno.

And, you know, it just became very,

hardcore, and I started feeling very

shameful, I guess, about myself and my soul. And

I was watching the young girls, you know,

Well, you'd be you know, it's, it's one thing to be an actress and

stuff like that, but it's another thing to be degraded. I've had some friends that

were photographers and visual artists where they were like, hey. In the beginning, it was

great. And then they were Mike, too much exposure to, something

that that didn't feel it was good for their spirits. Yeah. It it

was getting to it wasn't sitting good with my psyche. So Philip and I

said, we've got to get out. It was you know, we're really you know, we're

pretending ourselves too that we were making movies. This is really in our

beginning of our career. You know, we were pretending. We're making good money, but we

were pretending. And when it came down to it, we really didn't make a real

film. So we said we got we got a call. So we clicked.

And we took the money we had earned, and we made our 1st horror

film, which was Dark Place. At that time, it was called Shadowbox, changed its

name to Dark Place. And that started a gentleman,

rest in peace, Matthew McGrory, who is the

giant in, Thousand Corpses there in,

Devil's Reject. He played Cool. Yeah. He was

basically our main actor in it, but it was the only movie that

he didn't have to wear makeup in. And we let him do

dialogue because he was a very beautiful,

you know, different individual. Sure. And he right. He was great. I loved him,

and we became really good friends. So Well, it's like the it's like the

guy from, Michael Berryman from, The Hills of Eyes or

whatever. Like, you you know, you meet him in person or whatever just like a

regular dude. Whenever you see him in the movie, you know, they always it's so

it's nice to be able to let those people their natural look

kinda shine through. I filmed a movie with him. I did a movie

called Solar Fire, which had him and Charlton Heston

in. Awesome. Yeah. He played and and the late

Jack Palant, which is beautiful. How are the I mean, this is a

sidetrack, but Charlton Heston and Jack Palance on the set. I

mean, they are that's about as old classic Hollywood as you can

get. Unfortunately, Charlton had a drinking

problem. Oh. And he was very drunk. Jack

Palace was incredible. He was he would, I

actually was I was I was the music,

designer of the props, And, I designed all the

futuristic, musical instruments Oh, fun. Baseball.

And then they put me into the film. This is all in my book,

by the way. Then they put me in the film because they thought I looked

like a scruffy Mad Max at the time. So I don't know if that was

a compliment to an insult, but they put me in there. And, of

course, Jack Powers would come up and pull this digital trumpet out of my

hand and and just play in between takes. He was

very nice man, and Michael Berryman played, I

guess, the mutant, which is what he's pretty much used to playing. Right.

You know, but that's why I first met Mike. Because Michael has a beautiful

playboy wife, which is, you know, which he didn't really

think was gonna happen, you know, he's done something. But he did. He was he

was a nice guy, nice chap. But, anyway, Mike, all

that dried up, but we went ahead and made that film. It's called Dark Place,

and we released it. And it did really well in Europe, but it didn't

do do very much in America. And that was

the time that the movie Saw was put out. And those movie, the

first Saw came out was right when we released our film.

So horror was going into more of a different direction. I I I

personally like the first saw movie. And then after that, it

became very, you know, torture

porn Right. In a way. Right. The first one's pretty clever. First

one was really good at look. Right? So, you

know, with that in mind, we ended up, doing trailers

for a living. We would make everybody's film trailer look

better. When they when they would make a trailer, they could they couldn't sell

it. So they bring it to us, and we would put our pizzazz. Because that's

what we've been doing, you know, for Playboy for a long time was making

these nothing films into look like big budget productions.

Sure. So after that, we met somebody who said, you

wanna make another movie? We said, yeah. And he said, well, I

wanna make a movie about,

pirates and an art heist in this big old museum

that they've got these, you know, these, rare paintings and people going

to steal them. And I go, okay. Well, what's the place called that

you wanna film it at? Because, you know, if you get a good location, you

can make it film cheaper. He goes, it's at Waverhill Sanatorium.

And I went, okay. What is that?

So at that point, I did a lot of research. Right.

And that place is incredibly haunted. And I found

out what the place really was. And at that point, I

turned back to the other producer and I said, you're not gonna write no

bloody art film. What you're gonna

write is what really happened at Waverly and what the locals are

calling their monster. And

we wrote the script over the history and the hauntings of

Waverly's sanatorium, and that became

Death Tunnel. And that was released by Sony Pictures. And

that was our 1st major movie after dark place that

we released. And that did pretty well. It actually turned out to be a cult

film. It was 10 How close did you keep

that to history? Like well, a lot

of people, you know, there's a few people mocking it because, you know, you have

the, you know, the, you know, the typical teenage

initiation, which is very typical. That wasn't really part of the

script that that I wrote. That was actually the other producer

that had written that part in it. But I'm glad he did because, actually,

making it more, you know, college teenage

orientated was the reason probably why Sony even picked it

up. Sure. And you gotta figure when you're making something, you've gotta have somebody

to buy it. Otherwise, it's a movie. I see so many people making

movies, and I just kinda go, I sure hope you've got someone to buy

it after you make it. You know? Because everybody's going out, you know,

okay. Even throwing it on Netflix now is not a

success. Everybody throws it on Netflix at the very end. You know?

Mhmm. But but, we

all the stuff that I don't know if you've seen death tunnel. I haven't seen

death tunnel yet, but now it we'll link we'll link to it, and now it

goes on my list. You've got to see it because, not

only is it really dark, and and it really is done really

well because it's you know, the lighting is incredible. And, of

course, I do the music, and the costumes are really great. It's about

5 girls that do do initiation in

Waverhill sanatorium to see if they can spend the night there. And,

of course, you know Things go poorly.

They start dying. But to to there these

these girls in old fashioned 90s with their their initials,

Devin, Elizabeth, Ashley, Tory, Heather.

Oh. Let's go. Yeah. Right. Let's go. Yeah. Well,

they, you know, have to get out of this asylum. So

what we put in it is everything that really happened there,

and including all the death that death that really happened there.

Like, there was a guy electrocuted. So one of the girls gets electrocuted.

There was people that froze to death because they put them out on the balcony

for fresh air in the middle of winter because of TB. So we have

people freezing to death, turning to ice and stuff. And and

then there was a rumor about a doctor that would push a gurney

around and and come and get the dead, so he became our

our death dude in there. So, I mean, everything in that whole

movie really happened in the sense of whether it was

real or a legend that was supposed to be real. So none

of it was, like, made up. It was made up. And it it

was it was based on legends and on history.

So even in the stuff that seems way out, there was actually everybody had the

legend about that. So it's pretty cool, including

the fact that Waverly was still taking money for

dead patients at the time. Mike, when somebody would die,

you're supposed to report them so their budget, Mike, $35 a bed

at that time Right. Would Mike it away. They wouldn't report them

so they could keep getting the money. So they're even Crooked as

well as cruel. Yeah. So even some of the dirt is really in that

movie. Of course, that movie, when we were filming it, we

started to get apparitions and cold

spots and shadow people and all crazy stuff. Real stuff started to happen

when we're making the movie. I said, we better get a film crew

into in here to film us going through what we're

filming. And then that turned out to be the documentary

spoof. Ghost of Wave Waverhill Sanatorium, which

sci fi then released that on their channel.

And you see, I think that's an incredible story because it's like you you guys

are working on a horror film in a place that's got haunted stories in it.

And that's that's the perfect kind of, like, setup for a horror

movie right there. Yeah. So sci fi loved that idea,

and and they wanted that they wanted it really

bad, so they did it. And I think it's had over been on sci

fi for, like, 5 years. What? 5 or 6 years.

And that title is about, what, 9 years old down. About over

4,000,000 people have seen it now. So it's a great film. It's

that's called Spooch. You've ever seen Spooch. I disagree. And that

Spooch is a the documentary

of what happened in Waverly, and we talked to the real

patients that were still alive, the doctors and the staff that

were still alive. And then all the locals that would

tell us the stories, the ghost hunters, the owners of Waverly,

everybody that we could find. And then we go down there and film,

you know, Waverly and put it all together to kinda find out what really

happened there. It's beautiful, but it's also sad because we thought

in fact, a lot of the patients, unfortunately, have passed since

we've made that movie because they were in their nineties when we shot them.

You know? So how did you like, the permission to shoot there. Like, it was

already closed down. Yeah. And so

was I mean, you just had to get it from the like, are the owners

do, like, the county reclaim it or something? Or, like, who owns

that property? No. It was private property. The owners bought it on

eBay, and they paid they paid $250

for it. And, no one had

filmed there before. And so

we offered them, a very well, at that

time, a large amount of money to take over the asylum

for about 10 days and then, you know, be able to come back and film

off and on for 3 years there. And, that's

what we did. And, then, Ghost

Hunters went in right after we filmed. And

when they, they were actually they they said they were the first to

do Waverly. And, actually, we

were, but this show came out Aired first. Right.

1 hour. 1 hour before that show. They came

on, and I remember Grant saying at the very end, well, this

place is haunted. Nothing's gonna top that. And then I was shocked. And then

our show came on. Spooked. So

that's cool. As an art director, when you were there, like, how much did

you have to like, what kind of shape and condition and

stuff like that is in? Because we're used to everything. Like, here's how it really

looks, and here's the, you know, the Hollywoodization of it. Like, how much

did you have to change or adjust or, to make it

look like you wanted it to look in the movie? Absolutely

nothing. It looked like Jim Burton.

The walls were literally warped,

almost in a circular, you know, Mike,

labyrinth direction. It was the peel the paint

was peeling for 80 years. It was still there.

Nothing at all. In fact, we found a lot of the real props we used.

The needles, the gurneys, the wheelchairs was some of them were still there.

So absolutely nothing. All we did is come in, light it,

bring 2 gallons of green slime that we

put dripping from everything. And that was it. And then we

brought 5 nineties, 5 sexy girls from LA.

And They must have been loving it. It's odd filming.

And the thing is, I remember when we brought the girls

there, right, from Beverly Hills. Right? Oh,

oh Mike. You know? I feel like that. Right? And we drove

up and they got their mouth was dropped. They

went, oh my god. You know? What am I what did I get

myself into? Like, this is gonna be my big break if I survive.

I know. And I said, and by the way, Billy is haunted.

And they died. I mean, they Wendy, oh my god. And

The fear the fear was real. You didn't have to direct too much.

Yeah. And there's no cure for fear at all. So it was

like, they started getting ill

when they were filming, and they got very scared. And,

they saw a lot of things. So everybody saw I mean,

truly I mean, honestly, everybody really witnessed

something weird there and went home.

Well, if they didn't if you weren't believing in ghosts when you got there, you

believed when you left. And so

now getting spooked on, you know, making a doc first of

all, it's brilliant that you get a making of documentary that's a

paranormal documentary in addition to your your, fiction film, you know,

your historical fiction. So number 1, that's that's a brilliant idea to

get a 2 for 1 shot out of it. And Yeah.

And and numb and so that was like, okay.

Now you're a paranormal filmmaker. You know, in addition to, like, okay. We

have stories with, you know, art and things like that. Like, now we're doing

some, you know, real stuff and documentaries and things.

And so what was, like, your next you know, we Mike did, like, a light

bulb go off or something? You're like, man, there's a Yeah. Like, this ghost hunter

stuff is taken off. I became a producer, so

that's where it all became Mike, okay. Now what now what are we gonna

do? A producer needs to be like any

artist, by the way, anybody that makes a living off of their talent should

have 3 at least 3 irons in the Mike,

because 2 of them probably won't burn.

And, that's what, you know, what you gotta

do. But Spook did so well,

that Syfy ordered 2 more immediately. They at a

really good amount of money. And, that became

Children of the Grave, about ghost orphans

and The Possessed, the first case of possession in

America in 18/77. And those shows,

went on to be the next shows for sci fi for the

next 2 years after that. But more than anything, the

respect level that we had inside each other was important

now. Even when we were doing Playboy, we were trying to

respect the craft of erotic

art and, and, you know, romantic

turn on and try to treat everybody with respect.

Mhmm. So that respect value came into the

paranormal. And, you know, like in in

Spooked, we dealt with a lot of elderly people, which were really beautiful

talking to, you know, talking to the owner.

The owner of Webley's father, we asked him who he

would interview. And he go he said, yeah. So

he showed up, and he was in all dressed up in a nice he was,

like, 80 something. Dressed up in a nice little suit and a hat

and, you know, ready to be interviewed in a haunted asylum. It was like this

old chap with a cane walking down the middle of a haunted

hallway. And it was so cool and beautiful. So when we

went on the Children on the Grave, it was time to respect the children

that we were trying to help basically tell the

stories. And I think that's I think I love the point you're making there because

I think that's something that, you know, is is

more recent, especially in paranormal documentaries and things like that. When you talk

about the producer being the artist and artists in general, it

you know, the respecting the craft and doing your best and, you know, doing your

best to make it something special and not sensational and

not I mean, because if if you're gonna do a half ass job or

something like that or just, you know, do it just to get it done or

something, then you might as well just be doing any a day job or something

easy or something like that. And it it's that respect of

I wanna do this because I believe in it, because I think about something, I

wanna make it special, I wanna make sure the people I deal with are treated

well, and that the whole experience is something that's pleasant and

fun and and things like that and important and artistic. I think that's what

separates, like, the artist from the, you know, the

the sausage maker. Well, it does. I mean, when I

was, you know, crazy, I did a music video,

back in the eighties. I played Jesus. And what was difficult

was to play Jesus, a music video, and also be the

producer, which means you gotta keep everything on budget. So

here I am saying Jesus says everybody can eat, and the producer

says, no. Everybody can't eat. It's gonna cost too much. Right.

One sandwich a piece, everybody. Yeah. Exactly. It was, like,

really difficult to to do that stuff, but at the same time,

you know, if I ever added up how much I made making these shows, I

mean, I swear a lot if I don't even make a dollar an hour. You

know? But I wasn't really doing it. It's very

brilliant and very rewarding. If you can make

money doing your own craft, it doesn't

have to be a lot. As long as you can survive, you're fine

with it. You don't need to be, you know, a a millionaire

and have all this stuff. As long as you can make money and survive

doing what you love to do. And that by the way, if you're a

gourmet hamburger maker, that's really cool too Right. Because you're

doing what you believe in. And if you like working at

McDonald's and you really love it, that is cool too. You

know, it's you just got to be passionate about whatever you do.

And I think that opens up the world to put you every

I believe every every couple years is Mike a

step to heaven. You reach your ultimate goal, which is

obviously where you're satisfied and you let go, and then you become

a super incredible human being or whatever Sure. In your

heaven. So it's really important that you really care about

what you do. And if you and I understand you gotta do. I used to

dig ditches. Okay? So, I mean, I know I know how it

is, but I always used it for a reason,

you know, to get to a better place, a stepping stone. I need to

dig the stitch so that I can go and do what I wanna do. So

I'm gonna really do a good job doing it. You know? Oh, trust me.

We've we've played in so many dumps. It's like you get to you're sitting

there going I'm sure you will I'm sure you will play in many more. Oh,

I'm looking forward to it. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, I miss

those dates, you know, of playing live because I was a

singer, a lead singer. Oh, yeah. And they I bet I bet they loved

you. I missed it, you know, but I

I I, still do I still I'm still in a studio doing music, and I

still love it. And, you you know, became a

writer. I've written a few books now, which have been a I you know, I

did, Rob, a a couple months

back, and I just released it. I did a book called paranoia, the

strange case of of ghosts, demons, and aliens,

which I did pretty well. And it's like an autobiography

of rock and roll. So sex, ghosts, and rock and roll,

really. Sweet. But, it's done very deep and spiritual

in a sense that if you, you know, you feel it's very positive. It's a

very positive book. And that's a lot of the story of you and and a

lot the experiences you've had in entertainment and,

paranormal stuff? Yeah. Everything. Entertainment, the rock and

roll days to the plane Jesus, my mom dying of cancer

right after I prayed Jesus, and I was very enlightened. I was I was

crucified in a rock and roll Guns and Roses type music

video, so they crucified me. Okay. The problem is when they

were crucifying me on the music video,

in my psyche, it felt like it really was happening. So

when I came off of the cross, everything seemed different to

me. And it was really weird, and I don't know what it was. But even

it was Mike a epiphany for just a moment, it was

enough to make me appreciate life so much more to the fact,

I was able to help my mom pass ovarian cancer,

which she died terribly of. And I was

so enlightened after doing that music video. She wasn't

afraid to let go. And I was 33 at the time,

which was Jesus' age. Right. So it's pretty, I mean, pretty

trippy. You know? It really is. That's a par that's a powerful, that's a

powerful story. You know? Like, you're doing something very emotional.

Obviously, you know, you're playing a role that's very emotional and we, you know, we

make a joke about those glam rock videos and stuff like that.

Right? But Yeah. You're doing something that, you know, use feels

important, artistic, emotional. You're you're carrying it

through on the on the set, you know, you're taping it and everything and

or I mean video filming it And you're carrying through it and then you

have those feelings, and then you reach a different level in your head that enables

you to do something wonderful for something someone you love. That's an awesome

story. Thank you very much. And and,

it also helped me deal with the pain. Obviously, losing your mom

is terrifically, destructive. So at that point, I've

always learned that when something destructive comes in, you must turn it into

creativity. I think when our mom did pass, we

were making a movie at the time that it happened.

I got really upset that day. I fired everybody. I was a producer at

that time on a movie, but it was devastating. But, I mean,

I tried to you know, I'm I remember the phone call from my

mom saying, now don't you go falling apart Wendy I die. Don't

go falling apart. And how are you supposed to deal with that? Right.

You're gonna go falling apart. So I try to think that

every time that I get sad that I go ahead and create

something and create something out of destruction.

And we're still doing it today, but I was saying that I went ahead

and turned that book, which is a great book. It's,

almost 200 pages, and it's Mike, I

turned it into an audiobook. And I I never done an audiobook before,

but I wanted to tell the story Mike. So I went ahead and narrate

it. And then I put music behind it with sound

effects of all these stories. Some of these stories I've been telling you today are

in that book. And it turned out so great. I mean, it turned out

so well. It's like a Pink Floyd album, knowing narration.

And it turned out so cool that I just love doing that.

And I I hope to do many Mike, of that.

But but, yeah. So That's called, like, paranoia, the audio

experience or something or an audio experience? That's correct. Yeah.

It's on Itunes. That's on Amazon, and it's on spooktv.com,

which is my webs which is our own website and also all my other

books. I also put another book out, which actually

was to correspond with, remember the Exorcism

Mike, Destination America did? Yeah. So okay.

Let's talk about that. I wanted to ask you about that for a second because

that was right before now, so everybody out there, like, I met,

Christopher at the the Chicago, Ghost Conference last year, and he put on

a a cool presentation. And so Allison, who you've guys have heard on the

podcast before a 1000 times, my Mike, who runs Milwaukee Ghosts, was

super excited because she already already had a couple of documentaries in Skinwalkers and

everything, and and she's been working on this

Wisconsin Exorcist. And so she needed to she needed to

pick up a copy of and it's it's, like, the secret diary of The Exorcist.

Right? It's called no. Actually, it's called The Exorcist Diary. The

Exorcist Diary. Yeah. And you guys did this,

special on Halloween last year, and I remember seeing the updates and checking it out.

It was great. But how so how did you guys get that special?

Let's talk about that for a second. Well, it wasn't my special.

Basically, the, the producers of,

the Ghost Asylum b series on Destination

America asked me to,

bring in my, feelings on the movie, The Motion Picture, The

Exorcist, and what it has had. We did our own movie,

a documentary called The Exorcist Bio, which went out on

Red Box, which did well on Red Box. And, is

on iTunes and on Hulu right now. Oh, cool. And,

you might wanna check that out because actually we're getting ready to pull all them

down because, I should have talked to you at the very end of this. I

have an a special announcement to tell you guys, which is great.

But then, anyway I like that. We made our own show, and it was basically

we were the first ones ever to film inside the real

Exodus House and do a paranormal investigation and tell you the truth as

well as well as, interview the real family

of the boy. It was a boy, not a girl that it happened to and

the real Exorcist, family. We put it

all together and called this documentary The Exodus Mike.

And they wanted me to, you know, talk about that as well as

talk about the movie, exorcist, as well as bring a copy of the

real diary. And I have a copy of the real diary.

So And this is the diary that this is the diary of the priest doing

the exorcism? Yeah. The 14 priests wrote

about what really happened. And it's it's,

awakening and it's scary, but it's also really cool to know

what happened, you know, the the truth of behind the movie. So I

turned that into a book, and, it's

actually perfect timing. It came out right after that special,

which had 2 1,200,000 viewers, I think, on came

out. And, I got to revisit

we were the 1st there. We got to revisit the house,

and it hadn't actually gotten 10 times

worse as far as, you know, bad vibes in that house,

bad energy. So it wasn't

really enjoyable to go back in that house in a way. How does the

crew feel on this? Like, I mean, as a producer, as the

vision behind it and stuff like that, like, you have a you have a compelling

interest. Like, we're gonna go check out this place with bad vibes, and it's gonna

be but how many you know, you bring, like, a a boom operator

or something. How does that guy feel? Well, a

lot of them, you know well, first of all, everybody on that show

was beautiful, and it was a discovery,

channel production of Destination America's

Ghost Asylum, Exocism Mike, and they were all

great people. All of them. Discovery was great. Destination

America was great. Tremendous entertainment. The production company Ghost of Time was

great. Very caring people. I mean, I

have to really mention that because it was a weird thing that

they were doing, you know, going in to exercise a house,

get rid of a bad energy that happened there in 1949.

And, they had the crew, and there was a lot of crew. It was probably

close to, I think, at least a 100, not a

150 people there. Wow. Crew members, and there

were 2 huge satellite truck coming actually, semi

trailers. There was, you know, makeup, props,

dressing room, grip trucks, cameras, and everything. I mean, it

was a you a huge production, and it was a live event.

So you can times that by 2 when you do live because you need the

live trucks there as well. Right. So it was probably almost like a

football field full of people and trucks and equipment

all to do this little house. You know? Well, I just I just

imagine, like, just some dude, you know, Mike a like a PA or something like

that. It's like, oh god. Like, there's Mike I'm

terrified. The place is giving bad vibes. They're talking about the devil,

and I'm getting scale for this. Like, this isn't worth it.

Well, they did do some of them did do that. Some got very scared, and

a lot of them refused to go into the house. So,

yeah, it had it had that energy about it. It definitely

nobody felt that it was a good place. No. So

this was last year when they did this live thing. How long ago did you

guys do The Exorcist file? 2010. Okay. So

just a just about 5 6 years ago. And so you're in

there. And was there a a regular family living in the house now? Or is

it Yeah. There was a, a gentleman, and

recently he has, I think, Beyonce now that's lives there.

And did they know about, like, the history and stuff like that, or did

you did did you were you the one to tell them, like, hey. Didn't mean

to weird you out or anything like that, but some really crazy stuff went down

here. Well, again, a lot of this is in my

book, paranoia, and also in the Exodus diary book, which is at spooktv.com.

And, also, you can see, you know, on SpookTV, you can get the

Exodus, file, which is our movie about it. But the

man that bought the house knew knew it was

the ex's house, and he bought it for that reason. Ah. And he bought it

on 6606.

Perfect. He doesn't believe in it at all.

But for some reason, he wanted the house blessed.

That's right. Yeah. Well, that's

that's great. And my sister, Allison, was saying that she really enjoyed,

The Exorcist Diary and that she couldn't, you know she she thought it was well

written and well done, so everybody make sure, to check that out if you're looking

for the real story behind the fictional story that, made us

all, pee our pants when we were 10 years old. Now

what's looking next for for you guys that you're still you're still at it?

You're still doing it? What's the next kind of step if you just had this

book come out and you had paranoia and the audiobook of it come out? What's

your next, you know, visual video production that people are gonna be able to check

out? I just released a new book, just to

get up on that one. Oh, please. A book called

Angel or Devil, and your system might like that one too.

Basically, it is, it explores 2

of America's first possessions and exorcism. Not the

Exodus one, but actually the other 2. One happened in 18/77

that our movie The Possessed is based on, but this is a book form

now. And one that nobody's ever touched, which I'm actually

with green lighting and making a movie about it. But it's about an

exorcism that happened in Wendy. And it's

about a legion of demons inhabit a young girl

brought to a, I mean, scary place, a convent

for an exorcism. And in this convent,

disturbing and extraordinary events lash out because where they

find out the family has a past of dark magic

and has created a curse that is 7

times evil. And the point is, this is a true

story. And, the movie,

Emily Rose and even The Exorcist was based off of a lot

of the, events that happened in this story. Oh, that's

awesome. They including with the girls hanging on the ceiling

upside down kind of thing. Mhmm. That happened in this,

and this is a journal. It's not necessary this book I have is

actually my book, but it's got the real journals in it. So

you can read the real of what happened. Like, oh my god. Really? It's

really cool. And what this is, it really

pushes on is what happens if the

exorcism doesn't work? Okay? And

then meaning that you exercise somebody.

Okay. You know, she or he's healed. And then a

few years later, they become repossessed.

Well, if you look at that concept, even back into the

biblical terms of that, if you get repossessed,

the next time you get possessed after having an exorcism,

the evil is 7 times worse.

Mhmm. And I thought that was incredible concept and idea

that Yeah. It's terrifying. It is. It's terrifying. And that's the

kind of stuff we do. So that's in a book called Angel or Devil, and

that's at spooktv.com. And we have actually,

limited editions which are autographed and numbered. We have, like,

I I think, 10 of those left. And, that's angeldev@spooktv.com.

I've seen that graphics for it and stuff like that. It looks really cool. I

didn't know the actual story behind it. That that's great. The, that you went into

that 1928 exorcism, and it's something that hasn't been explored

as much. And so I think that's a that's a fun thing. What city did

that happen in? Iowa. In, Earling, Iowa,

state of Iowa. And it's a true story, and that church is still

there. So as a researcher and I know we're running out of time with someone

Mike so I I know you've you've been doing this research for years and stuff,

but how do you get your hands on, like, a a journal done by,

like, an exorcist or some nuns? I just know a lot of

people and a lot of, people that

believe that we will handle it right, that we'll tell the true

story, and we won't embellish it. Everything we've done, we have

embellished it. I mean, Death Tunnel, yeah, but that was a that was a

fictional movie, but Spooked was was nonfiction. Everything

on Spook was nonfiction. The movie we did

for Syfy Dead Still, which is still on Syfy Channel,

last year, is about a haunted Victorian camera. And

that's is based on true events. If you if you see the movie Dead

Still on SciFi, that's not a movie. Oh, awesome.

And, so I we're going on the road and, of course, we're doing Penthurst,

Aragon on June 4th 5th in in Penthurst, which is

incredible down in Pennsylvania. Then we're heading to the

haunted farm in Waltzing, Kentucky On July 16th,

Fandom Fest in Louisville, 29th to

31st July. Silcon, August 20th.

Saturday night, we're doing Ashmore Estates on August 20th. Then the

100th birthday of Ashmore Estates in September, 9th to

10th, which is incredible. The Hunt's birthday of that one.

And October 2nd, Skipfest. ChicagoCon after that, which we're

doing ChicagoCon again. October 7th 9th, where I met you.

And then after that, we're doing Mike paranormalcon in Pennsylvania

on October 29th to Halloween. And then, of course, the

cool thing is that we have just,

licensed 4 of our films to Destination America. Oh,

congratulations. That's awesome. Yeah. And Discovery Channel. And they

will be I've told that they will be playing

to Ghosttober this year.

Okay? So you get to see, we're

releasing 4 films that have been re edited and remastered.

4 of our best, shows are being gonna be airing on Destination

America coming up in October. Well, congrats. That's that's awesome

news. And it's and like Mike said, you guys are having a super busy summer

and and Halloween season this year, so that's exciting. Yeah.

I mean, Mike, I keep doing it. And, of course, my my favorite

thing I'm looking forward to is my little boy, Gabriel, who's 9 years

old, coming to visit me for summer. Oh, that sounds nice. I

could take get to take 30 days off and and, pinch

his cheeks. Fantastic.

And so people can find all your stuff at spooktv.com.

Yeah. And I'm on Facebook. Christian Stinko is on Facebook. Our streaming

videos on spooktvdashodot

com. Spooktdashod.com is our own streaming

channel. Our movies are up there, streaming. Of course,

Destination America. We got 4 new shows coming out That's awesome.

This October. So So make sure you guys get out there. All the links will

be up in the show notes at othersidepodcast.com/91.

We'll have links directly where you can check out all their stuff. But make sure

you keep supporting and watch it when it's on, because it's always

good to see, like, independent, exciting,

filmmakers who have a visual eye, and fellow musicians

who are out there exploring this paranormal world and making stuff for you

guys. So thank you very much for spending your time with day with us,

Chris. Thank you very much. God bless everybody. Alright. We'll see you

again. Bye bye.

Such an interesting perfect crossover between the paranormal

and pop culture. I mean, it's Mike he was meant to be on our podcast.

I think he was. I think he was. Just a guy that leads an interesting

life. Yeah. And the 2 of you talking together too, like, I could

tell his interests were very in line with what the stuff that you dig.

So Yeah. So I had a lot to lot to say to him. So, anyway,

I'm looking forward to checking out his newest stuff and the stuff he's talking about

on Destination America and everything. So make sure you check out

his website and things like that and, see I will. See what Spooked

TV has in store, and I'm sure we're gonna see him again too. Yeah. Yeah.

I can't wait. Absolutely. Very cool. So, inspiration behind this

song is that, Christopher was really talking about,

like, you know, how to live your life with passion and

how when he felt like he was selling out or when he was selling

his talent short, that he that that was when he decided

to move on and try different things. Yeah. And if he didn't have those feelings,

he wouldn't have started on paranormal Wow. Stuff in the first place.

Look at that. So this song kinda relates to that. That feeling of,

like, if you're gonna do something, you know, don't don't quit.

And and, you know, you can Go with your instincts.

Yeah. Like, you know, you you you can't sell out because you end up losing

a piece of your soul. Mhmm. And so this song is called The Wilderness of

Almost Was and Never Were.

Thank you for listening to today's episode. You can find us

online at othersidepodcast.com. Until next

time. See you on the other side.

What did I get myself into? Like, this is gonna be my big break if

I survive.