In this episode of The Hairy Chin Podcast, I sit down with Lisa Santamera, a skin, lymph, and jaw health practitioner based in Barcelona, to explore the profound impact between stress and the body. Lisa shares her unique journey and evolution into specialty body work that includes lymphatic drainage, TMJ massage, facials and bespoke body treatments. She and I dive deep into the ways chronic stress manifests physically, the importance of the lymphatic system, and the often-overlooked benefits of jaw therapy. Lisa also discusses her approach to creating individualized care plans, emphasizing the importance of patient safety, connection, and a whole-body perspective. We also talk about how self-care can be an act of rebellion for females and the importance of creating non-negotiables in prioritizing health and wellness. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in understanding how stress impacts the body and how to deal with it.

IN THIS EPISODE: 

• [2:27] Statistics about how stress manifests in the body
• [4:18] The most common physical symptoms of manifested stress seen by Lisa
• [6:47] The difference between stress and anxiety, the flight-fight response and what happens in a body under stress. 
• [13:27] Lisa’s journey into massage therapy and her passion for hands-on healing.
• [19:48] Pregnancy massage and when it is safe for an expectant mother to have a massage. 
• [21:09] The lymphatic system, lymph nodes and how body work can support the system through lymphatic draining. 
• [29:40] Understanding TMJ massage and its role in alleviating jaw tension, headaches, and stress-related clenching. 
• [38:11] The emotional connection between physical touch and healing
• [43:20] The role of facial massage in skin health and its impact on hydration, elasticity, and relaxation.
• [46:05] “Motion is lotion” in regards to the body
• [46:57] The importance of hydration 
• [49:04] The concept of self-care as an act of rebellion for women
• [58:48] Lisa’s final thoughts on breathing, boundaries and the importance of saying no. 

PLUCK THIS! SEGMENT: 

• Lisa is offering a special downloadable resource for TMJ Awareness Month! Get her Top 3 Jaw Exercises designed to help alleviate tension, reduce clenching, and improve jaw mobility. Visit the link here to access this exclusive guide.

TOP TAKEAWAYS: 

• Stress impacts the whole body. 
• Assisting your body’s lymphatic system when needed can alleviate symptoms of chronic inflammation and fluid retention. 
• UThe lymphatic system doesn’t have a pump and relies on physical movement to function properly. Motion is lotion in the body. 
• TMJ massage can provide relief for those suffering from chronic tension and jaw pain
• Physical touch can be a transformative experience that fosters a deep sense of safety and connection. 
• Regular facial massage can improve skin hydration and promote a glowing and healthy complexion.
• Staying hydrated and intentional breathing can have significant benefits for reducing stress.
• For many women, self-care is seen as a luxury, but it’s actually a vital part of maintaining mental and physical health.

RESOURCES

• Follow Lisa on IG: lisa.santamera.therapies 
• Read The Body Keeps The Score, by Bessel van der Kolk. Find it here on Amazon.com

ABOUT THE HOST: Spencer Moore is a creative professional, creative wellness advocate, and host of The Hairy Chin Podcast. Originally from Raleigh, NC, Spencer has resided in Barcelona, Spain since 2016. Her warmth, humor and authenticity bring light to tough conversations about female wellness. Drawing from personal battles with chronic illness and early-stage breast cancer, she is committed to breaking taboos and empowering women in their health journeys. Spencer shares insights across various platforms, including her Podcast, YouTube channel, Instagram, Blog and website, all aimed at inspiring independent thinking and creative wellness.

Website: www.spencerita.com

Instagram: www.instagram.com/thehairychinpodcast

Spencer Moore

Welcome to the Hairy Chin Podcast. I'm Spencer Moore, your host, here to explore the good, the bad, the hairy and the fabulous of female health. Join us for eye-opening conversations, myth-busting insights, and relatable stories that celebrate the realities of womanhood. And don't miss our Pluck This! segment for tangible takeaways from each episode. Life takes a village, let's do this together.

Spencer Moore

Hi, Lisa!

Lisa Santamera

Hi, Spencer.

Spencer Moore

Thank you for being here with us on The Hairy Chin Podcast. I'm so excited that you're here.

Lisa Santamera

Thank you very much for inviting me. I'm excited to be here, too.

Spencer Moore

Yes. So Lisa is a fellow Barcelonian, like I am, we met here in Barcelona, and I'm just so excited that we can chat today about the amazing work that you do.

Lisa Santamera

Thank you. Me too.

Spencer Moore

So today we were talking about stress in the body. The title of our episode today is The Body Keeps the Stress, which is a play on the very well known book The Body Keeps the Score. It's one in the same. Our body holds stress and that is just as we would say here ‘no bueno.’

Lisa Santamera

Right? No bueno,

Spencer Moore

No bueno. And so Lisa Santamera, she is a skin, lymph, and jaw health practitioner here in Barcelona, she does beautiful work on the body. Lisa is originally from Liverpool in the UK. Her career in wellness began at eight years old when her mum trained in aromatherapy massage.

And I said mum like a proper British person. Yeah. Mum. And you got practiced on at home, which sounds like a lot of fun. She was completely sold on hands-on healing, and the seeds were sown to one day recreate the relaxing experience and invite others to her studio for healing therapies of their own. She currently offers nurturing and no nonsense skin, lymph and jaw health practices to a mostly female clientele in Barcelona, Spain. Welcome.

Lisa Santamera

Thank you. Thank you so much. Fantastic.

Spencer Moore

So I'm really curious for you this work that you do in the body, you specialize in the skin, the lymph and the jaw and we're going to get into what those mean in just a minute.

But I'm curious, what are the most common symptoms of stress that you see in your clients?

Lisa Santamera

Yeah. Okay. So the most common physical symptoms of stress that I see are tiredness. People are tired, naturally. People hold a lot of tension for many, many people, it's across the shoulders. For many people, it's through the abdomen. A lot of my jaw clients, obviously, it's through the jaw it's just a combination of those things, you know, tiredness plus the tension that people hold in the body, which go hand in hand because as you can imagine, if you are tense, if you’re tense in anything for a prolonged amount of time, that thing is going to fatigue You know, it's we are going to become tired if we are under such constant pressure. You have stress, right? It's natural. We've got a breaking point, we've got a capacity, let's say, by the time the people come and see me they have long overshot their capacity and they are looking for someone to just help, help them with the tiredness, with the tensions, all of those things. But I also want to mention that the majority of my clients are women, about 90 honestly 98% of my clients are women. Okay. Maybe women are more prone to go in to see a female body worker. Who knows? But I see a lot of women. So before anybody comes to see me for the first time, as you know, I ask everybody to fill out an online consultation form, that's just so that I have an idea of who this person is and how they are when they arrive and what they're looking for. We expand on that when we meet, and we have a full conversation because it's natural to speak to a person one on one. But in that form, I ask if people experience stress regularly or not, and if they experience anxiety regularly or not. And I would say 99% of people experience stress and anxiety on a regular basis, right? That's why it's so wild that when I receive a form and somebody says, no, I never experience stress, I'm like, who is this person, right?

They need to be studied because it's how you know, like, how do you do that?

Spencer Moore

Right? And I wonder also if people understand what stress really means, right? And what anxiety really means, because I think that there's a broad term. Do you want to talk for a minute about kind of your perspective of what is stress and what is anxiety? Yeah. And what you see in your patients.

Lisa Santamera

Yes. I'll circle back to that. So stress is a natural bodily response that's actually very beneficial when it's appropriate. It's a response to an immediate threat. So I can't think of a better example than the one that many, many people who talk about stress use, which is back in the day, if there was a tiger jumping on the bushes and we needed to engage our body in survival mode, is the stress response. It releases the appropriate hormones. And actually everything that you mentioned before about the part of the body, the impact of my stress, that all makes sense like the digestive system, for example, is impacted, the female reproductive system think you mentioned is impacted like our hormones, in those moments of stress, when it's appropriate, the body needs to prioritize which functions get all the energy resources that we have. So if we are under threat of, let's say in modern times, if we step into the road and a car is too close for comfort, the body is going to produce a stress response which is appropriate at the time. And we're going to naturally move as quickly as we can out of the way and survive. Right? That's what stress is for. So it's a natural response. And I think it's important to just know that it is a natural response. But what is not natural is how frequently and how consistently we experience stress. I think for a lot of people, it's just an accumulation of not necessarily every day, you know, we don't step out onto the road. We don't have there's like immediately life threatening experiences that frequently now, but our system and the same hormones are produced when we experience things that we perceive as a threat, which could be anything to do with relationships, job, financial implications, you know, if you have a child who's really, well, the body is responding in a way that I think is appropriate, but it just keeps us kind of in a loop, I think. Yeah. Really trying to, like, navigate a stress response when what we're trying to do is navigate the actual situation that we're in it.

Spencer Moore

Right. I something about how stress exactly as you said as a reaction to stimuli. And then anxiety is stress about stress like it's the it's the reaction to stress in a way that you just it's like you say it's cyclical and you just get into this loop.

Lisa Santamera

Exactly like I, I read or recently the, you know, I do experience anxiety and I question my own anxiety. And sometimes I really have to examine my anxiety and think like, is this valid? What is going on right now? And anxiety, I think is, is well thought when you think about it as the anticipation of a threat. So we think in this non threatened place that we anticipate that something is going become a life challenging threat. And so we then start to worry about that thing, which is the anxiety.

Spencer Moore

Of course, of course. And one thing that I've learned kind of along my journey of chronic inflammation and some chronic health issues, is that when you live in a state of high stress and anxiety, your body goes to this fight or flight state and what you're talking about is, you know, it perceives a threat. And so then, you know, adrenaline increases, cortisol increases, And I didn't realize this, but it kind of prioritizes the main middle part of your body. So you know, your heart, your lungs, your main organs. And what it deprioritizes is your skin, your hair, your digestive system. These things really kind of just go into a submissive state, and that can really affect how you feel 100%.

Lisa Santamera

Yeah, because the body at that time needs to make a choice. Do I need to digest foods slowly and appropriately? Or do I need to rush blood to the muscles so that I can run right?

Spencer Moore

You know, so you just don't think about stress really making those types of changes, physical changes.

Lisa Santamera

And this is exactly what I meant earlier, which is one of the nonphysical symptoms of stress that I see in people very often is actually that people feel inadequate or inept in some way because they can't handle stress. And it's like, wait, you can. And you are every single moment of the day. But we have a capacity. we, we identify, I think very much so I was like, we all want to be strong and we all want to be capable and actually we are. And if something threatens

how we perceive ourselves to be in that way, we feel like we're just not good enough. And it's like, no, you are good enough. Your body is managing all of this stress and you are just in overwhelm, and it would overwhelm anybody. So people often present and this I think, contributes to people's tiredness because they're just like, I just need a break. Like I'm just really need to change. Something needs to change.

Spencer Moore

Yeah, something's got to give. I love that you use the word capacity because I did a webinar a few months ago and it was about feeling stressed about being stressed was something similar to what you're talking about. And what they talked about was that we have capacities for different things, but it's constantly shifting. And so when you feel like I can't do this or I'm not enough or I can't handle this, that's your capacity at that time. But that doesn't mean that that's not going to shift and you won't be capable of handling it later. And so sometimes it's just thinking, I just need to give it time. I need to give myself some self-care, which we'll talk about later. And some kind of attention to myself and my body and, and my capacity will grow, you know, and having that patience.

Lisa Santamera

Yes. Yeah. And I think in those moments when we are focused on what we cannot do or what we think we cannot do, it's so oversimplified, but we need to come back to what we can do. Like. Yeah. Even though you feel like you cannot give that presentation today, or even if you feel like you cannot be a good friend today, can you just be gentle with yourself and acknowledge that, like you really even aware of that of your own capacities, like to be aware of those things like honestly like it's so again, it's too simple, it's too simplistic, but like we need to give ourselves a break.

Spencer Moore

Yeah, very much so. I really, really appreciate that. So what I'd love to do is to go back to the beginning, when we were talking about how your mom was in a room with therapy, massage, and you got practice on as a child. I would love to talk about kind of how you got into this world. So obviously, we know you were inspired by what your mom did in her work. And then I'd love to kind of hear your journey about how that progressed into where you are today in Barcelona.

Lisa Santamera

Yes. So obviously there were zero complaints when mom needed bodies to practice on. We were just like, me, me, me, me, me. I've got a very vivid memory of my mom drew the muscles of the calf like the muscles and tendons on my lower leg, because she was my mom is quite creative and she, you know, trained in aromatherapy massage. But she also did decorative paint effects. And she was just very kind of skilled in those different ways. And I can remember looking at what she'd drawn and I was just like, oh, there's this world inside what I know of as me. And it's just it's functioning and doing all these things. And around the same time, in the UK at least, I'm from Liverpool. There was magazines that used to be released once a month and they progressed and this particular one was called How My Body Works. And I think that was like, you know, the issues went from like 1 to 100. Wow. And you collected each one every month and you had to go to the newsagents to buy it. And with each one it would detail a different part of the anatomy. They were all created for children and you also collected with each one a different body part. So you kind of constructed a body from the inside out.

Spencer Moore

So cool. I love that we, I didn't have that in the state. So I would have loved to I love that,

Lisa Santamera

Spencer Moore

Wow congrats.

Lisa Santamera

Spencer Moore

But my understanding of pregnancy massage is that, there's certain things that you can and cannot do, and that if you are pregnant and you do get a massage, that it does need to be specific for pregnancy. That's correct. Right?

Lisa Santamera

Yes. During pregnancy, we need to wait until the pregnancy is considered safe, which is after 14 weeks, okay. And so if everything seems to be going well with the pregnancy and there's been no complications that have been discovered, then after 14 weeks, it's safe to go for a massage.

Spencer Moore

Perfect.

Lisa Santamera

With a, qualified practitioner for sure because, some adaptations that we need to make for the body, not only for the comfort of the the pregnant person, but also for the comfort of the growing fetus, as you know, like there's just so much change in, in the body at that time that we need to make sure that the correct adaptations are made basically. Lymphatic drainage is something which I have studied still pretty recently. And, you know, I think, well, I know for sure that my knowledge of this is still growing. You know, it will continue to grow. But I'm just so fascinated, you know, this system that's working double time to just keep us. It's almost like a filtration system for the body. We have the waste system and like the digestive system, like those are doing their role. But the more I learn about lymphatics, the more I'm just in awel of The body was built not just to survive, but to thrive. And like, this system is just we're in a way to keep us clean and keep us moving, to keep everything moving fluidly.

Spencer Moore

Now. So just, just to kind of go further into the lymphatic system. This system is, like you said, the filtration. I'm going to say it and you can correct. Because, you know, more but it's the filtration system and it, it deals with the, fluid in our body. Yeah. My understanding also is that it does not have a pump. Right. So the heart moves the, the blood through our body through a pump. But there is no pump with the lymphatic system. And I also want to mention in that, that the lymph nodes are kind of what filter. So do you want to kind of go through those different parts of the system.

Lisa Santamera

Yes. So I'm a bit of a geek in this respect.

Spencer Moore

So perfect I love it. Me too. Okay. Fab.

Lisa Santamera

So lymph is fluid. Enough fluid begins its life as blood. Okay. So the heart is pumping blood around the body as the blood is moving through the body, some of it leaks out of the blood system into the tissues that are just right next to the veins and right next to the arteries. Once the fluid has left, the circulatory system is left the blood system. It becomes lymph. Okay. And it just kind of hangs out in those tissues until it's picked up by the lymphatic system. you know yes the heart is pumping the blood around the body. But there is no pump for the lymphatic system although it is working all the time. We're not into with, through lymphatic drainage. We're not introducing something new to the body that it's not already doing. We're just simply helping the body to do what it innately already is built to do. Right. And so the lymph fluid, it needs to move. And if it's moving slowly, we can feel or we can see some swelling. And we might feel a bit slow, a bit heavy. You know that, you know, when you just sit a bit like I'm just not feeling as bounce back able as usual. I like that word. Yeah, yeah. You know when some of the times you just can't really quite put your finger on it, you're like, yeah, I feel a little bit bloated, but I also feel a little bit rundown. I just feel a little bit low on energy. These are some of the very common symptoms like the lymph that's moving slowly. And what the lymph is doing is it needs to move through the body. It's moving in one direction only. Which is why lymphatic drainage sessions are so precise in the movements. with massage, it can be a bit more liberal with

the directions that you work on in the body. But with lymphatic drainage, it's it's pretty precise.

We need to follow the same pathways as the lymph. And the lymph is moving through those pathways. And it's kind of like picking up foreign bodies, picking up any used proteins or any used fats that the body just doesn't need any more. And it's going to move it all through. And as you just said, it will eventually reach the lymph nodes. And in the lymph nodes, there's it's been described and I think it's a good kind of like way that we can we can picture it as when you go through airport security like that and you just kind of stopped and you need to open your bags and you just need to check that everything that you're going to take through to, to board the plane with is safe for you and everybody else. So that's what the lymph nodes are doing to just kind of like stop in the lymph and just check. And what in the and if some of what's found in the lymph not optimal or may even be harmful for the body, it's going to hold onto those things in the lymph nodes, and the lymph nodes are going to deal with it. lymph nodes are going to call in additional immune cells to either fight or neutralize whatever this thing may be, or it will kind of metabolize it in a way that's going to have it removed from the body.

Spencer Moore

Right? Right. A such a great way to explain it. It's so clear. So that's wonderful. Yeah. I have done some lymphatic drainage with you. And it is such an experience. It's known, I guess you would say also lymphatic drainage and lymphatic massage. Right. They both go hand in hand.

Lisa Santamera

And it was like, that's it. That's it. Because you talked about Swedish massage, which I think is the most common sort of massage. I say, like, you know, which is the most common way of massage. I think people think about no, of this kind of all over the body pressure and movement, things like that. But lymphatic massage is done with fingers, really kind of like your two fingers of your hand and I guess more, and it's these little pulses that you do in different areas of the body. And so it's not like a regular massage. But I, felt, like it was very beneficial for me. I came to you for the lymphatic drainage after, during, perhaps after I had chest radiation. And from the chest radiation, I had some lymphedemar, which was some kind of, like, localized, like, you know, water, like lymph swelling. And, I had some sticky muscles and, you know, my, I lost some, range of motion. And the massage was amazing. It really did help move that fluid out of my arm. And, you know, one of the last episodes that I've done is with Kristen Richards about lipedema. And she talked about how lymphatic drainage is wonderful for those types of, diseases where you get these accumulations of fluid of limbs. And it's a way to, like you say, help the body, move it out. It's not doing it for it, but it's assisting when maybe it might be drying a bit.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's exactly that. Like a normal functioning lymphatic system will kind of. It will be, to use your word. It will be pulsed through the system like 6 to 7 times per minute. Okay. If it's running slower than that, you'll feel it and you'll see the accumulation of the lymph, which is a which is a liquid. Right. It is a fluid. And with lymphatic drainage we are just basically hands on to increase that frequency of the movement of the lymph. So, you know, we can increase it. I think it's like up to ten times or something. But you're right. It's it's not really massage. It is body work. that's more or less where the similarity ends. I mean, it is a very light touch skin technique because the lymphatic system is so superficial. It's literally between the skin and the muscle. Yeah, it's quite different to massage. Really.

Spencer Moore

Yeah. I remember after saying like, well, what was that? I was just nice like doing it. So but but yes, it was very helpful for me. I also have seen you, for your TMJ massage. I carry a lot of stress in my jaw. I grind my teeth at night. The dentist always say, oh, my gosh, your teeth are so flat. So I wear a bite guard at night time and and I can feel it. I've had periods where I've had limited mobility in my jaw because it's just been hard to open it. And you were the first person that I ever knew that did TMJ massage. And that was a world of a difference after I saw you. And I would love for you to kind of talk about what that process entails, because I'll tell you that Lisa goes inside the mouth, she has gloves on, and she goes inside, and she deals with the muscles inside the cheek and, you know, around the teeth. It was such an experience. Can you tell me about the process?

Lisa Santamera

Yes. So yeah, it is. It's so, it's so interesting and it is quite niche working with the jaw. Although now I see a lot more people, a lot more practitioners who awaken with the jaw. at the beginning of our conversation, we were talking about stress and like how it manifests in the body and like, if we were to stand flexing our bicep for eight hours a day, at the end of the day, that muscle would be really tired. It would be so fatigued, it would be really sensitive. And so when we are clenching our teeth to use, for example, whether it's throughout the night or throughout the daytime as well, we're basically just putting a lot more force and pressure on those muscles that is than they were built for. Okay. So like when we're close in the jaw we use in the muscle in the head here and the muscle just at the sides of the cheek, it's like the cheek muscle just in front of the ear. And it's almost like an exaggerate d close of the mouth because we've got the mouth closed already and we try to close it even further. And so the muscles just become really tired, overworked. And I think for a lot of people, the majority of people that come and see me,

it's in the session. It's in the first session that we have together, that they realize that they are the muscles that they are using to perform that function, or they are muscles that exist in that part of the body, because I think the muscles from the shoulders down, they get all the headlines and well aware of like, you know, yes, we understand shoulder tension and yes,

we understand like hip tension or whatever else, but we don't think because these muscles in the mouth and the face and the head as also kind of vulnerable to our stresses and that they go through the same type of stress as any of the muscle that we go and get a massage for, for example. Right. So working on those muscles, although they're really small, they are so strong.

This muscle in the cheek, the masseter muscle, it's the strongest muscle by size, in, in the entire body. And so it really can it's doing its good job. Like I sometimes give the muscles like a personality. And it's like the muscles are just trying to do a good job and it's like, okay guys, you're doing a great job. If anything, you've been a little bit too enthusiastic. Yeah, let's take a breath. people before they come and see me have often tried different techniques, like some people go and try Botox, which actually freezes the muscle. And once that wears off, the symptom is still the same and it's going to return. But when we start to work on those muscles, not only do I observe the muscle relax, but I see the person relax. It's like the muscles are being hyper vigilant about something. And I think that reflects in the person would be in we're trying to control in many ways some aspect of a life or a situation. And when we see the muscle start to give, I always see the person's kind of state, that emotional state also start to give. And that's really the hand in hand response that we're looking for. Yeah.

Spencer Moore

And you've said that to me after our sessions I've gone in and I've said like, oh, I have these in this and this. And then you say when you come back, and you see my face time after I get dressed and all this, and you say, you know, you look much more relaxed or, you know, I can see it in your eyes that you just saw a bit more. And and I love that feedback because it makes you present of how you feel. And so I appreciate that you say those things because then I think I, I really do feel, you know, relaxed and, it's nice. Yeah.

Lisa Santamera

Thank you. I do try to give people positive feedback after each session because. Oh, this sounds very like schoolteacher-y but I want to reinforce the behavior that they have. They have chosen, you know, I'll be honest. Not everybody responds, 100% positively or returns to me for jaw massage after their first session. And make no promises to anybody. But for many people they do feel positive response. And they come back and then we'll work together and it becomes more of a journey. But I understand sometimes what it takes for people to even make the appointment to come and see me. So I'm just so happy for them that they have, you know, that they are here, that this is happening and he's trying it out and it's an exploration session at least. And so, yeah, I do really like to give that genuine positive feedback when somebody does look like you can just see it in someone's, it's like, you know, if someone feels like they have a huge problem and that's a huge problem becomes no more. Yeah. You see the shift in people and just the stance and how they stand and even like the how they smile changes. It just it's it's very it's obviously a very visual feedback that I can see. And I just want to feed it back to, to, to you and to the clients.

Spencer Moore

Well, and it's funny because I'm actually as we're recording this, I, I can tell myself, opening up my chest and pushing my shoulders down, I think you kind of just give me this calm vibe and so I can really tell. And I think I can probably go back in the video since we've recorded it, and I can see the evolution of my shoulders throughout this conversation because they're going down and I'm feeling like, okay, take a deep breath, breathe, you know, feel present. And I will say during the TMJ massage, you do the skull, you do the base of the skull, the neck, the head. And I remember being so shocked, you know, I had all this tension in my jaw, but I had so much tension, like, at the base of my skull. And you did some pressure point and some work there with those muscles. And, you know, I think, tension headaches are quite common among people. You know, people keep their shoulders up to their ears and you know, that, you know, like you say, contracting those muscles. It's going to make them so tired. And, and so, you know, it wasn't just the jaw. I mean, because the jaw affects the neck and affects these muscles. And we do have these really strong muscles that hold up our head. Yeah. Because the head is just I mean, the muscles are what keep our head where it is. so yeah, it really is kind of this whole head massage in a way. And it's, it's very helpful.

Lisa Santamera

Yeah. Thank you. The first session and many it depends on the person, but the first session is it's we always focus from the shoulders up. And because it's almost like I just want to check the usual suspects, you know, just be like, okay, which of these muscles are holding some tension that we may be able to release? And then in subsequent sessions we may travel as far down as the feet with some people because they might be holding, it's not so much that it's tension in the feet, but like again like the muscles and tendons get all of the air time when we're talking about like tension. But those are quite distinct. Parts of the anatomy, like, you know, all of the muscles are not connected to one another. All of the tendons are not connected to one another. But what is connected to all of those is the fascia, which is a different kind of soft tissue, which is why it's why many people say, whoa, when you release inside the mouth, I can feel my hip relax a little bit. Or when you release inside the mouth, I can feel my toes start to feel more relaxed. Or we release the toes as well. Sometimes we will work on those parts of the body, but it's really that. That facia, which is another type of soft tissue which permeates the entire system. And and it's all one sheet, if that makes sense,

Spencer Moore

Yeah, I love that you talk about that behind the whole body experience. And I find that with your work that you create these kind of bespoke treatment plans for each client. that is so important to see the body as a whole, you know, to understand that your jaw could be affecting your hip, you know, or the tension in your jaw as you're talking about, you know, releasing that could, could make your other parts of your body feel different. and so I'd love for you to talk kind of about your experiences with your clients and kind of how you approach the way that you work. When we're talking about kind of full body, experiences.

Lisa Santamera

When people first come and see me, they often select one thing or the other. So people will be like, I need to come in for some jaw therapy or I need to come in for some lymphatic drainage as an example. But when we meet and we start to know each other, you know, the first session is always like first safety. And it's just like, hi. You know, we're just kind of like getting to know each other. And this is how it's going to go. And, you know, you need to really feel on both sides if you as the person who is looking for help, if you connect with me and if I connect with you and if we have that connection, then it's great game. But when we start to get to know each other.

We'll go, we'll do the jaw, for example, and we'll check in. We'll see if that person feels like it's something that's going to be beneficial for them. Then we'll schedule the next few follow up sessions. In those next few sessions, we see that we take two steps forward, maybe one step back, maybe one step forward, maybe two steps back because. You know, if any one practitioner could just solve everything that's happening for you, they would be very successful indeed. Because we always need to work on how are you today? How do you present today and what are we going to where are we going to focus today? Sure. Maybe that's like I think even with some of our sessions, we had a conversation at the beginning which was like, what do you feel like you need today? Is it jaw or it is lymph? And we were like, we just go with what

you felt was needed. And on occasion it was actually just you just need some nurturing massage and yeah. So these different skills that I have, we end up using them all to some degree as we progress through this journey with people. Because naturally, people, how people feel changes and evolves. And so it's just really beneficial that I have a few different tools that are different to somebody else's. But these are the tools that I have in my toolkit, let's say, and to be able to apply them when necessary is, what makes that connection last or it makes it kind of look quite strong for people to actually continue with what they believe is beneficial for them.

And then they see the progress and then they naturally they want to continue to perform. So it just works and hand in hand again like that.

Spencer Moore

Yeah. And I like that you said it. Sometimes it's two steps forward and one step back because inevitably what you're doing is helping a person heal. You're helping them heal their mind body connection and how they're feeling in their body. And healing is not linear, you know, it's not just you go get a massage poof, all of your problems are gone. It's not like that. So I do like that you're quite transparent of like, look, some days you're going to come work with me and afterwards you can feel great. In other days you're not going to feel great, you know? And then we're just going to kind of assess where you are at each session. And that's really positive. Thank you. As much as I do help people, every person helps me because everybody presents differently. I don't know every condition under the sun. And so somebody might fill in their online form and state that they have some condition that I'm not really familiar with. I need to go and do my homework and figure out what that is and how this it might be impacting that person. So, you know, with all of these different people that have helped currently and in the past and in the future, everyone helps me to just become more intuitive in a way, you know, and I'm going to do what I can do. But we're both engaging in this relationship to actually help the body do what it can do. So it's more so about not more so but it's very much so about just finding the right person to find what works for you. Right. The person that needs the help.

Spencer Moore

Yeah. And I think when you say finding the right person, I think feeling safe and in somebody's hands, it's going to be touching your body, you know. And for a female, I think that that is really important. If you know, laying on a table without clothes and somebody touching your body, you know, to feel like you have a connection with that person, that you're safe in their space. So I really appreciate that you are such a communicator and that you create these spaces that, that for me, I always felt I've always felt so safe in your space. And I think that the fact that you have such a high percentage of female clientele, I think that that shows that you really are fostering this really safe environment. It's great.

Lisa Santamera

Thank you. Thank you. I really appreciate you saying that. Of course.

Spencer Moore

So yeah, we have a couple more things I want to chat about, that we kind of have on our schedule. And one I want tol talk about is your facials. Because you, you are, specialized in facials and, you know, there's all this trending stuff on social media about face yoga and about gua sha and I, I've kind of had the impression in the past that facials are esthetic, you know, they're to kind of clean out your pores But their muscle is on our face. There's so much more to just kind of the external. So I'd love to talk about the benefits of getting facials. What do facials help with?

Lisa Santamera

So before I went and studied facials, I already had a service that I offered, which was facial massage with lymphatic drainage, one of the benefits of that which still carries through into my holistic facials now, which is a combination of facial massage and skincare is how much I think people identify with the face so I could pick my face out of a line, but I don't know if I could pick my elbow. I was like, no, you know, it's like, is me not sure. Is that my ankle? No. But there's just something so deeply relaxing about facial massage before you even get into the skincare. Body massage we focus on, you know, as we said before, like the main muscle groups get all of the attention. The face is like literally how we present to the world. And I do believe there's a really big emotional connection between facial skincare and emotions. The body produces a communication through the skin, which could be acne, it could be dryness, it could be pigmentation, it could be rosacea, something like this, or any of those things or combination of a few and the skincare side of it just fascinates me that there are things that we can apply topically that can help to nourish the underlying skin, which is essentially the skin beneath the surface is going to become the skin that we see on the surface. So in that skin, that's a level deeper, which is where we want the skincare products or the tools like the LED red light or blue light that can penetrate the the upper layer of skin, the epidermis and deeper into the dermis to for want of a better phrase, to make that skin healthy so that when it becomes the skin on the surface it's a healthier skin.

Lisa Santamera

Many people, women again, come and see me because they want like I want my skin to glow. I've got dry skin. Stressed and I can see it in my skin large part of my, about 25 minutes of facial massage, which is not only really healthy for the skin because it's stimulating the blood flow that's coming to the surface of the skin, which is going to oxygenate the cells, and it's going to hydrate the cells and just get everything moving. Like, you could use the phrase motion is lotion, that you could apply that to anything like I use that when I'm talking about the jaw. I use that when I'm talking about lymph. I use that when I'm talking about skincare too. And facial massage specifically because it really is like a lubricant and a channel, which is going to nourish the skin, which is what it ultimately needs. And the facial massage part of it is just so deeply relaxing for people. And I think, again, just combine and that, like the science and the emotional elements, is is part is makes the experience basically.

Spencer Moore

Yeah. I'm going to ask you something that, I've just thought of is, after massage, I'm always told drink lots of water. And so you've been talking about hydration and motion and things like that moving around. How important is hydration after any sort of body work therapy and just in general, what is it going to do to your body?

Lisa Santamera

Okay, so hydration is so unbelievably important for every function of the body. It's you can't overstate how important hydration is, but we need to ensure that we're drinking, electrolytes, basically, because if we just drink filtered water often, it doesn't have the minerals that the body needs to hydrate us. So we could end up in a situation where we irrigate, rather than hydrate.

Spencer Moore

What I was going to ask here is I've heard a lot about people adding salt to their water. Now, is that what you're talking about with making sure that you get your electrolytes? Or are you talking about kind of those powders that you can add to water

Lisa Santamera

Yeah. So which is salt? Which is sodium. Potassium. This magnesium which we can help to hydrate. I would just keep it simple. Drink water and add a pinch of like Celtic salt or Himalayan salt or sea salt see if that works for you. Obviously, everybody needs to follow like the health practitioners advice when it comes to intake and additional salts. Listen to and observe your own body. If you're drinking plenty of water, you still feel dehydrated that your body telling you that it's actually not receiving the minerals that it needs.

Spencer Moore

That's and I think that's very helpful. I want to move on. So, I follow this one on Instagram. Her name is, I follow her on many platforms. Her name is Tori Dunlap, and she is, she's into, financial freedom for women. Yeah. She has a really great account. She's a podcast called, The Financial Feminists. And what she talks about is how financial independence is an act of rebellion for women. And, you know, I think that that's very true. I also really believe and you and I talked about this before we started, is that taking care of your health, taking care of your your body, your mind, your soul. This is also an act of rebellion for females. And I would love for you to talk about your experience in seeing people coming to you for self-care. You know, I feel like there's a lot of guilt sometimes around that. What have you experienced in that, in that regard?

Lisa Santamera

So, in that regard, my experience is both as a practitioner and as a person, as a woman. Right.

As a practitioner, as I said before, you know, when you have that connection with someone and they've made that first step to, to to make the appointment. And by the way, the massage that you want or the facial that you want, or the lymphatic drainage that you want, or the jaw therapy that you want, That's not going to happen if you don't make the appointments. So, you know, making the appointment is the first step. But when when you get there and people do respond well to to the the therapy, adore that people then start to you know, they make it a non-negotiable that like, I am going to be here every couple of weeks or I'm going to be here once a month, It's I just love to see the change in people going from, I can't find 60 minutes, in my month I'm going to find 90 minutes actually next month, but I'm going to find 180 minutes the month after because I'm going to come, every couple of weeks it just it's like all these metrics, these internal metrics that are just always like on the move so you feel like empowered and allowed almost in some way, you realize you're allowed to do it, you know, and you realize that you can do it and everything's not going to fall down like you're spinning. All the plates are going to just there's still going to be there for you to spin.I, I do. I love seeing the commitments that people make to themselves.

Spencer Moore

Yeah. And, after I went through the radiation, we had a series of work of sessions that we did together. And I remember I would say to somebody, oh, I'm going to get a massage. Ooh, fancy. Oh, you're going to, you know, and that's this response of like, oh, how indulgent, you know, that you're pampering yourself. And yeah, we should pamper ourselves. We should be indulgent because it's not just, you know. Well, it is it's going to disconnect. It's going to take that time for you. But there are also such benefits to the body when you do that. So it's not just indulgent, it's indulgent and taking care of your body, investing in your future health.

Lisa Santamera

Yeah. I mean, I understand to a degree why it's still considered an indulgence because we do focus so much on or we have done things for sure change. And now on Western medicine approach to health, and anything outside of that was kind of written off as not legitimate. But, you know, that's where it becomes an adult, an indulgence. And I also appreciate that everybody can find the resources or find not just the time, but the money, to invest in that type of care. But I also see that when people do make that step, and let's not forget that it's touch. Tous is Completely intuitive and has been healing we developed it into a massage state. You know, we all know that Human Touch and connection is Essential. from when we're younger from when we're children for us to develop. Well it touches a massive part of it. And I think yeah I can see why it's so considered an indulgence. But then I love seeing that that shift and that turning point for people when they them, it then becomes, another non-negotiable, as I said before, because my I believe people really come back to themselves during these sessions. It kind of feeds into the making time for it in the schedule, which it just becomes like a bit of a, a snowball effect. And then there's the just like, hooked on that process.

Spencer Moore

Yeah. So when you're talking about people that make it a non-negotiable and kind of these repeat customers that you have, what changes do you see in them when they, for example, schedule two sessions a month with you or, you know, I mean, what is the kind of where do you see the sweet spot in the changes in terms of the the consistent?

Lisa Santamera

I would say the sweet spot is. Just that middle part of a Venn diagram, which is like time for self, time for somebody else to look after me. Yeah. And some hands on healing and people obviously physically they change during the session that's you know, that's immediately perceivable. Sorry, I just want to backtrack a little bit to when we first started the conversation. We were talking about stress and, and one of the, the unseen, symptoms of stress that are people who they feel like I'm not, I'm not capable, I'm not adequate for this life because I can't handle it. And people start to recover their sense of capability and their sense of like, wait, I am adequate more than that adequate. It's just the environment that I found myself in is it's just not good for me. It's so layered. It's so it's really hard for me to explain because it's such an. Layered and intuitive and kind of individual can to change those same people. It, generally is a sense of feeling like I cannot to feel and like I can and I will. Right. That's what I see with people.

Spencer Moore

Right? So it's it's much more than skin deep. What you do, I mean, it is it, it really it permeates not only how the body feels physically, but how the body feels emotionally.

Lisa Santamera

Yes. Thank you so much. I love that how you frame that. It's more than skin deep.

Spencer Moore

Yeah. Yeah. That's that's so nice. Okay, so what I would love to do is, you know, we've talked about massage and people coming in and we've talked about resources and, you know, massage. These are investments. Right. And I would love to talk about the resources that you have available for women, for example, that say, I cannot budget coming in to a massage therapist. It's not right now or, you know, their, their concept is, you know, I can't make that happen. I do want to bring up your Instagram account. You have a beautiful Instagram account that I will have linked in the show notes, and you have some great videos on there that I think are are really wonderful for people to just get started. Right? So even if they're not used to touching their bodies, if they're not used to touching their jaws or any type of thing, I think even then, starting with your account is really helpful. They get to know you, your voice, your kind of mannerisms, and they can start getting comfortable with some touch.

Lisa Santamera

Yeah, I understand that. That's that's the reality for a lot of people. I do have as you have, as you said, some resources on my Instagram, which is where people could start to. Yeah. Just explore.

Spencer Moore

So with all this conversation is leading us to our closing segment of the Harrison podcast, Plug this. This is where we offer tangible takeaways for the audience that you can start doing anything relevant to this episode right now. So Lisa has an amazing offer today in the Pluck This! segment, Lisa is offering her top three jaw exercises. Is that downloadable that you can access in the show notes below? I would love for you to talk about this resource that you have available.

Lisa Santamera

Yes. Thank you. So this resource is specific to this month, but of course it can be used at any time. November is TMJ Awareness Month. people's symptoms of TMJ can be very broad.

But I've put together three, massage or exercise techniques that I believe are the most broadly beneficial for everybody. Basically one for people who are clenching their teeth and grinding their teeth, and they feel a lot of fatigue and pain in the muscles of the cheeks. One is for people who, have a clicky jaw, and people who have a click in the jaw can often. Intentionally click the jaw just to check that it's still there. And yeah, surprise, surprise, it is. So this this exercise is one that I would like people who have a habit of making their jaw click to replace their habit with this exercise, because it's much more gentle and healthy for the the health of the jaw. And the third exercise is have tension surrounding the jaw muscles, that's for sure. And it might sound a bit counterintuitive, but often one of the ways that we can help to relax that tension is to strengthen those muscles. So the third exercise is is going to do exactly that. It's going to help people to strengthen the muscles around the jaw, to help stabilize the joint and intend to help actually relax those muscles that were strengthened. And if that makes sense.

Spencer Moore

It does makes perfect sense! And I think it's a great resource. And, like I said, it will be available in the show notes. Lisa's Instagram is packed full of resources for everything that we've been talking about, and it's a great place to start for anybody interested in learning more about getting in touch with their body and in touch with touch and, getting, you know, getting to know Lisa and and her amazing Services. We are getting into the end of the episode, which I'm quite sad about. I could talk to you about this forever. But I want to ask you one final question, and and, I'd love to know if you could give one piece of advice to women struggling to manage their stress. What would you recommend?

Lisa Santamera

So my recommendation is I'm going to make two very sure, very short ones. It's nothing to do with body therapy. It's nothing to do with your therapy. It's nothing to do with massage. It's to do with and boundaries. Breathing. I'm not talking about breathwork. I'm not talking about optimizing breath. I'm just talking about finding time to breathe intentionally every day. Whether it's at the beginning of the day, in the middle of the day, or at the end of the day just lying on your bed. Put your hand on your abdomen. Have the abdomen lift as the lungs expand. Have them draw as you exhale. And ideally just play around and and find your own breathing rhythm and see what it is to start with and how you can help to stabilize it by maybe breathe in for four seconds and then out for four seconds. in, in a way, it does actually impact lymph because there's a lot of, a lot of lymph travels through the diaphragm or just maybe just beneath, but it's just about finding that little tiny ritual to just breathe, every day.

The second one about boundaries is boundaries is such a buzz word, but I believe it's just simply evaluating what you're going to say yes to and what you're going to say no to. Right? Whether that's a behavior, whether that's an event or a commitment. If you feel like you are full, take some things out. Yeah. And that might be a difficult conversation as to something that you've committed to. And, you know, you just can't. It's not sustainable for you. You can't do it any longer. Or maybe you're in a rhythm with some people and they expect you to say yes to this thing that happens, you know, every so often and you start to say no, it's going to be a bit sticky and feel it's going to feel not great to begin with, but once you kind of start to say no, you just can't stop yet.

Spencer Moore

It's so empowering to say no. It's so empowering because you're like, oh, I said, no, nothing bad happened. And so then I can do, you know, maybe sometimes, like you say, you get a response where people feel a little, you know, it's a little sticky. But I don't really find when I say no, people are like, okay, sure. Yeah. No problem.

Lisa Santamera

Yes. I think when in anticipation of the no, the prevents us from saying no. But then, you know, you might get like two out of ten people might have some kind of reaction to it, but the majority are just. And but then the point is, when you get that kind of reaction, it reinforces, you know, you're like, hey, I don't care for the nose. And now, set your boundaries and say, you know, just say no. Just say no.

Spencer Moore

And I you know, this shows my age. But when of the Olsen twins, you know, if you're the Olsen twins. Oh, yeah. One of them was in an interview years ago and she said, I just learned that no is a complete sentence, love. And I loved that because you think if you say no that you have to explain why this happened. No, no. Is it that's it. Just say no.

Lisa Santamera

Yeah. We feel like we need some reason for the no. And sometimes you just like I think it comes with it's practice, isn't it? And eventually you get to the point where you're like, it's just, you know, like, that's just that's my responses. Now, I can't explain it any further than that.

Spencer Moore

Exactly. Lisa, it's been such a wonderful episode. I've loved it. I just your energy and just vibe and everything. It always makes me so happy and wonderful inside feeling. So thank you for sharing your time with us.

Lisa Santamera

Thank you so much Spencer for inviting me. It's been great. Thank you.

Spencer Moore

It's been great. Of course.

Thanks for joining us on The Hairy Chin Podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, please head over to www.spencerita.com to join our creative community. I'm Spencer Moore reminding you that knowledge isn't just powerful, it's empowering. When you know better, you do better. So stay strong, keep going, and I'll see you next time.