Shownotes
The primary focus of this podcast episode is the exploration of Bob Herrig's new book, "Drive," which delves into the remarkable career and recent challenges faced by the legendary golfer Tiger Woods. Throughout our discussion, we engage in a comprehensive examination of Tiger's resilience, particularly in light of his comeback trajectory following significant injuries and personal setbacks. Herrig provides an insightful perspective on the complexities surrounding Tiger's journey, including his relationship with various caddies, such as Steve Williams and Joe LaCava, each of whom played pivotal roles during different phases of Tiger's career. The conversation also touches upon the evolving landscape of professional golf, especially in the context of the LIV Golf series, and how these dynamics may impact Tiger's future in the sport. We invite listeners to consider the enduring legacy of Tiger Woods and the profound influence he continues to exert on the game of golf.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Painted Hills Natural Beef
- Oregon Crab Commission
- Weston Kia
- Birdie Ball
- FedEx
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Transcripts
It's time for Grilling at the Green.
Speaker A:Join Jeff Tracy as he explores the golfing lifestyle and tries to keep it in short grass.
Speaker A:For the hackers, do sweepers and turf spankers.
Speaker B:Here's Jeff.
Speaker B:This is an encore.
Speaker B:Hey, everybody.
Speaker B:Welcome to Grilling at the Green here in Portland, Seattle, up and down the west coast, pretty much everywhere.
Speaker B:And on the Golf News network channel at iHeart, I'm JT.
Speaker B:As I said, how's your game doing this week?
Speaker B:I bet it's not as good as this guy.
Speaker B:Bob Harry is with us this week and his new book, Drive.
Speaker B:It's about Tiger.
Speaker B:We're going to jump into that in a minute, but first we'd like to thank the folks at Painted Hills Natural Beef.
Speaker B:Beef you can be proud to serve your family and friends and beef like nature intended.
Speaker B:You know, people ask me, say, why do you do the food stuff?
Speaker B:Because on the other side of my work, I'm an all food guy.
Speaker B:So there you go.
Speaker B:And hence my svelte figure.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And we'd also like to thank the Oregon Crab Commission.
Speaker B:From seed to plate, the Oregon Dungeness crab is a wonderful product.
Speaker B:And if you ever get out this way or you can find it in your store, I recommend it highly.
Speaker B:Bobby, ever eaten Dungeness crab?
Speaker C:You know what?
Speaker C:I never have.
Speaker C:And I feel like I'm missing out on something.
Speaker B:You.
Speaker B:You are.
Speaker B:Trust me on that.
Speaker B:You are.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So you got a new book coming out in a little over a month called Drive, and it's about Tigers kind of comeback and heading up to the 219 Masters, which he won.
Speaker B:But I wanted to ask you, what is your relationship with Tiger and the quote, unquote, woods camp?
Speaker B:You seem to be able to talk to him more.
Speaker B:And Stevie D from USA Today, I know he's had some health, health issues, but you two seem to be.
Speaker B:Get Tiger to talk.
Speaker C:Yeah, my, my relationship with him has been very good, I think, over the years.
Speaker C:I really appreciate that, that, you know, he's let me in at times and frankly, his camp has been always good to me.
Speaker C:Now lately, because of the fact that I've been involved covering the broader game, including live golf, they've taken some issue with that and it's caused some, some, some problems in that I think they're not recognizing that I have a job to do.
Speaker C:I don't take sides.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:You know, and when Liv came along, as we were seeing to this moment, to have ignored it would have been negligent.
Speaker C:I mean, it's like it's not my job to decide what's right or wrong in this.
Speaker C:In this fight.
Speaker C:And, you know, I think there was some sense I gave it legs by covering it.
Speaker C:And, you know what?
Speaker C:If that's their.
Speaker C:If they.
Speaker C:They feel that, I understand why they would be upset.
Speaker C:But the idea that we would ignore it is kind of.
Speaker C:Is kind of silly.
Speaker C:And so that might have caused some tension.
Speaker C:You know, Tiger has not been around that much over the last year now.
Speaker C:I saw him twice in the Bahamas.
Speaker C:I saw him at the PNC with his son.
Speaker C:You know, my access to him is limited.
Speaker C:But Tiger was cordial and, you know, answered my questions.
Speaker C:I've.
Speaker C:I've, you know, I've.
Speaker C:I have nothing but good to say about him.
Speaker C:And really, his agent and the people that are around him, they've always been good.
Speaker C:And I. I'd like to think that they would understand, you know, eventually that especially as they're working towards an agreement with these same people that, you know, this was an important story in the game that you couldn't ignore.
Speaker B:It's not going to go away.
Speaker B:I know there was a section of people that, when it first started kind of bubbling up, that they, oh, it would go away.
Speaker B:I never thought it would go away.
Speaker B:But as I told you before, in one of our discussions, I had some dealings with the Saudis.
Speaker B:And so I was just urging caution, which nobody cares what I say anyway on the issue.
Speaker B:But the point is, I was kind of urging caution, but now we've seen it permeate into this supposed agreement and working on that and all this stuff.
Speaker B:And we'll talk a little bit more about that in after hours.
Speaker B:But the live thing was never going to go away.
Speaker B:So it's.
Speaker B:One of my friends said, who worked for the Saudis for years, he goes, when they set their sights on something like this, it's almost inevitable that you have to deal with them.
Speaker B:So that's just where it is.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I mean, look, you know, I. I had my questions about Liv starting out, but there you've.
Speaker C:As this has gone along, you have seen that they are determined.
Speaker C:And the amount of money that they have spent suggests that they can wreak havoc if they want.
Speaker C:Is Liv as a separate entity, aside from the PGA Tour, sustainable in the long term?
Speaker C:I have my doubts about that because of numerous factors.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker C:Right now they signed Jon Rahm, you know, looks like Adrian Baron.
Speaker C:They keep talking to guys, you know, at some point, you know, we're gonna.
Speaker C:In 20, 24, other than the majors, we are not going to have Three of the last five major champions in any tournament with, with Scottie Scheffler and Jordan Spieth and, and Kalamorikawa.
Speaker C:I mean that's just not good.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And it doesn't matter how we got to this point.
Speaker C:We are at this point and do we want them to all come back together or not?
Speaker C:That's my sort of my thing at this point.
Speaker C:And, and I, and I think that, you know, it's important and you know, look, if they work something out then, then the PIF has a seat at the table.
Speaker C:They're not running it.
Speaker C:They just have a seat at the table.
Speaker C:Do you want them to run it?
Speaker C:Well, you run the risk of them getting more and more, you know, involved if, if, if you don't work with them.
Speaker C:And I know that's unfortunate.
Speaker C:A lot of people don't like that and that, that upsets them.
Speaker C:I get it.
Speaker B:Well, like we said though, it is inevitable.
Speaker B:They've got the money, they can flex their muscle.
Speaker B:And even though we've had players, you know, rally and rail against you, they would never go like Jon Rom.
Speaker B:If that check is big enough, you got to stop and take a deep breath and look at it and say, my family, my current family, my grandkids, my great grandkids five generations from now would never have to work with that kind of money or they would be take, you know, they would be solid kind of no worries on the financial front if they take care of it.
Speaker B:So that's a big deal for people.
Speaker C:I think it's easy for us to sit here and tell others what they should do.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:And you know, if you or I were, were offered life changing money and, but yet it meant that we had this sort of nebulous, you know, company that we would be either directly or indirectly working for.
Speaker C:I mean, yeah, it might be a tough call, but ultimately I think you do your homework and you, and you try to figure out what's best for you.
Speaker C:As I've said all along, without condoning this, I always have to preface it, I'm not condoning it.
Speaker C:Like if you hate it and don't want to be involved with them for all the reasons that we know, that's fine and I will totally respect that.
Speaker C:But the other side of the issue is that the PIF's sort of dealings in the world of finance are immense.
Speaker C:It's complicated.
Speaker C:US businesses do deal, do do deals with them are involved the Tour's biggest sponsor, FedEx, they deliver packages to Saudi.
Speaker C:In fact, the Piff invests in FedEx.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:I mean, so, like, it's just sort of like when people bring up China and the NBA, it's complicated.
Speaker C:I think it's beyond some of our reach in terms of we're just trying to talk about sports and, you know, would it have been better if this had never happened?
Speaker C:Probably.
Speaker C:Because I think what's going on is that golfers and their agents have come to this idea that, that the players are worth more than they're, than they've been getting.
Speaker C:I tend to agree with them to a point, but they're not worth what they're about to be getting.
Speaker C:It's not sustainable.
Speaker C:These $20 million purses we're learning on the PGA Tour, it's, it's just beyond their reach at this time.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:The commercial, the commercial value of sponsoring a tournament and getting your return for a sponsor is just not there.
Speaker C:They don't want to pay that.
Speaker C:So it got a little out of whack here.
Speaker C:And obviously, when you've got an entity like the PIF that can pay whatever it wants, it sort of artificially jacks it all up.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:And now here we are, and the Tour is needing outside, outside funding and, you know, needing to find ways to come up with other ways to, to, to meet these purses on their nonprofit side.
Speaker C:And it's, it's a complicated deal.
Speaker C:And I, I, I, I have tons of respect for all the people involved.
Speaker C:A lot of these guys are getting criticized like Jay Monahan.
Speaker C:I just don't think it's an easy job.
Speaker C:And it's an easy situation to have dealt with.
Speaker B:No, it isn't.
Speaker B:We're gonna take a break and we'll be back with Bob Herrig and talk about his new book drive.
Speaker B: pratfalls and pitfalls to the: Speaker B:So stay with us.
Speaker B:We'll be back in just a gif.
Speaker D:Ready for a new ride?
Speaker D:Choose from over a thousand vehicles at Weston Kia.
Speaker D:Like a new Kia Sportage, Soul Forte, K4, Sorento, Telluride or Carnival Gas electric or hybrid.
Speaker D:Oregon's all time leader in Kia sales.
Speaker D: Everyone Wins at Westin: Speaker B:Reported by Kia Corp. Hey, everybody, J.T.
Speaker B:here.
Speaker B:If you need something to practice with in the inclement weather, try Birdie ball.
Speaker B:Go to birdieball.com check out the actual Birdie balls, their packages, their putting greens, Which I happen to have a couple of those, and they work great.
Speaker B:Birdieball.com this is an encore.
Speaker B:Welcome back to Grilling at the Green.
Speaker B:I'm JT.
Speaker B:We're very fortunate to have Bob Herrig with us today.
Speaker B:His new book Drive.
Speaker B:Speaking of Drive, this is where.
Speaker B:And I think you did this one other time, Bob, but we have a little golf trip travel tip right now.
Speaker B:It's brought to you by one of our great sponsors out here, Weston Kia.
Speaker B:All the time you've been jetting around the world, covering golf tournaments, and you're lucky because you live in Florida and there's a little.
Speaker B:That's kind of the home of professional golf, as far as I'm concerned.
Speaker B:What's the worst.
Speaker B:I'll just put this for your travel tip today.
Speaker B:What's the worst part of travel for you?
Speaker C:Well, I would, I would probably say the actual.
Speaker C:The, the airports.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:And I'm, I don't mean to disparage any one airport.
Speaker C:I just mean in general, just the whole process.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Getting there, checking in, going through security, you know, the boarding process of a plane, it's just, you know, just is a, it's an added aspect to travel that is, you know, look, let's be honest, it gets tiresome.
Speaker B:Yeah, it does.
Speaker C:And, and obviously, there's delays, there's luggage being lost.
Speaker C:There's all sorts of things like that that go along with it.
Speaker C:And, you know, look, this is.
Speaker B:I'm not alone.
Speaker C:Many, many people deal with this, obviously, all sorts of business people, and, and it stinks on vacation.
Speaker C:But I'm just trying to get to a place to do my job.
Speaker C:And then you could have hours and hours worth of hassles just to get there.
Speaker C:And you haven't even done one minute's work.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:That's probably the hardest thing, the thing that I, that I have issue with the most.
Speaker B:Yep, I would agree.
Speaker B:I'm in the 2 million mile club, and when I started, man, it was a blast to travel.
Speaker B:When I was finishing, not so much.
Speaker B:Anyway, let's talk about the book.
Speaker B:There's been tons of books written about Tiger.
Speaker B:Would you call Drive one of the most definitive regarding his story, especially his comeback?
Speaker C:Well, it might be the first attempt to really dive into the comeback.
Speaker C:I mean, I think it's definitive in sort of looking at his, you know, at his career from a golf standpoint and why he was as good as he was.
Speaker C:It goes beyond the skill and the talent and obviously just the raw numbers which most of us who follow golf know.
Speaker C:I try to dive into why.
Speaker C:And the why is the drive.
Speaker C:I mean, how does a guy make 142 straight cuts?
Speaker C:It's human nature to.
Speaker C:Sometimes you just don't have it.
Speaker C:I'm going to go home.
Speaker C:I'm giving up.
Speaker C:Tiger hardly ever did that.
Speaker C:I don't think Tiger does that when he misses cuts, he is grinding it out to the end.
Speaker C:And I have numerous examples of that in the book.
Speaker C:Obviously, the big ones are coming back from the back surgery, winning the US Open on one leg or, you know, with the fractures after having not played, not practiced, coming back from the car crash, which has been.
Speaker C:Which is three years ago now.
Speaker C:To think that basically a little more than a year later, he made the cut in a P at the Masters, right, is remarkable.
Speaker C:I mean, what kind of, you know, what did he have to go through to get there?
Speaker C:Then, of course, he did it again last year before he had to withdraw.
Speaker C:Those are the sort of the aspects of the book that I get into the Masters five years ago.
Speaker C:Now, the win is a big portion of the book because I think it's just such a big part of his story.
Speaker B:It's a.
Speaker B:It's such a remarkable feet, if you will.
Speaker B:And I'm not talking F, E, E, T. And no, you didn't misspell it in the book that copies that.
Speaker B:But the point is, you know, Tiger is human.
Speaker B:He is, okay?
Speaker B:So I'm just like.
Speaker B:I'm in such awe of him that it's.
Speaker B:It just kind of like he's almost not human to me.
Speaker B:In times, back in his heyday, you know, he was.
Speaker B:I read a thing.
Speaker B:Who was it?
Speaker B:Dave Barry wrote something in one of his books or something or one of his columns.
Speaker B:And he.
Speaker B: This was about, like,: Speaker B:He does his yearly review, and he was talking about this, and he.
Speaker B:He would always bring Tiger in on one of those.
Speaker B:And he goes, they.
Speaker B:They decided to cancel the tourname in Denver and just mailed Tiger the check.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:It was like.
Speaker B:And that was such a feat.
Speaker B:I mean, you know, the arguments about who's the best of all time.
Speaker B:Is it Jack or is it Tiger?
Speaker B:I'm going with Tiger just because of the things that you wrote about in this book.
Speaker B:The tenacity, the never quit, the fortitude and the working through the pain and the discomfort.
Speaker B:And I can relate to that.
Speaker B:Not to inject myself in this, but I've had that back surgery.
Speaker B:I have a. I've had knee surgery, and I'm an Old fat guy.
Speaker B:And for him to, one stay in shape and do all the stuff he's done, that's just remarkable.
Speaker C:It is.
Speaker C:And there was.
Speaker C:There came a point where he didn't probably need to do it anymore.
Speaker C:You know, like, what.
Speaker C:What were you chasing?
Speaker C:But yet he was determined to get back.
Speaker C:I think Tiger realized how much he missed it.
Speaker C:I think he wanted to go after it one more time.
Speaker C:I'm not convinced he's done.
Speaker C:I mean, I don't think it's going to be easy.
Speaker C:You know, I think it's the fact that he isn't going to play enough to get sharp is where the issue comes in.
Speaker C:It's not that he doesn't have the skills.
Speaker C:He still can hit the ball.
Speaker C:He's still got a great.
Speaker C:He can get the ball out there.
Speaker C:His iron play is phenomenal.
Speaker C:He can probably work on his.
Speaker C:On his short game at home, but there's no way to approximate competition.
Speaker C:And so we expect him to play at Riviera next month and then.
Speaker C:And then probably maybe the Players Championship and then.
Speaker C:And then the Masters.
Speaker C:I mean, everybody else going into the Masters will have played four or five, six, seven times.
Speaker C:They're honing their games.
Speaker C:They're working on it all the time.
Speaker C:We don't know how much Tiger's able to put in at home.
Speaker C:You know, if he plays a tournament, does he have to take the next week off completely just to recover?
Speaker C:Can you get back after it after a few days?
Speaker C:You know, you put Tiger in front of the ball, no problem.
Speaker C:As we come to learn and as we've all taken for granted, you have to get from the tee to the ball, in the fairway to the green, and, you know, that's.
Speaker C:That's an important part of golf.
Speaker B:It is.
Speaker B:I mean, it really, really is.
Speaker B:And when we come back, we're going to take another break.
Speaker B:I want to kind of follow up on that a little more with Bob.
Speaker B:We're talking with Bob Herig today from Sports Illustrated, and he's still standing, and so is Si.
Speaker B:He just sent me a note there.
Speaker B:I read it, and we're going to talk about his new book, Drive, when we come back.
Speaker B:Stay with us.
Speaker B:Hey, everybody, it's jt.
Speaker B:You know, I talk about Painted Hills all the time, and we always say beef the way nature intended.
Speaker B:But it's more than that, because each bite of Painted Hills will make your taste buds explode, put a big, bright smile on your face, and whoever's at your dinner table will have a big, bright smile on their face.
Speaker B:And you can thank me for that later.
Speaker B:To painted hills beef.com and find out more.
Speaker B:You won't regret it.
Speaker B:This is an encore.
Speaker B:Welcome back to Grilling at the Green.
Speaker B:I'm jt.
Speaker B:We're talking with Bob Herig today.
Speaker B:Want to thank the folks that I'm just going to go through them really quick here.
Speaker B:Bob Painter, Hills Natural Beef.
Speaker B:Birdie Ball.
Speaker B:Excuse me.
Speaker B:And pig powder.
Speaker B:That's my barbecue partner Leanne's company best rub on the planet award.
Speaker B:Go to pigpowder.com so we're talking with Bob Herring about his new book Drive.
Speaker B:We, we started into it and then we had to go to break here.
Speaker B:But, you know, he's overcome a lot of injuries, personal issues, that type of thing.
Speaker B:And you were saying you thought he could come back.
Speaker B:So I would propose this to you with the way the, the live situation and we talked about this at the first of the show.
Speaker B:Could that actually be a help to Tiger in a way that he's not stacked up against, you know, Rom and Koepka and all these guys, they're, they want to cross the pond, so to speak.
Speaker B:So could he find a tournament?
Speaker B:Not saying that he would do this intentionally, but when he got to a tournament, if he's playing pretty well and you were talking about honing his skills a little bit, sharpening them up, I could see where the pull away from player or pull away with the players from LIV could possibly help him at least break that the Sam Snead record.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:The problem is, is I don't know how many events he's going to play outside of the majors.
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean, Riviera, it's where he's never won the venue he's played the most without a win.
Speaker C: in: Speaker C:He's never won there.
Speaker C:And then he, he goes there right out of the box.
Speaker C:His first tournament and it's typically chilly there in the, in the LA mornings.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:It's just not a conducive place for him really, at this point.
Speaker C:And then the Players Championship, which might be the next one, obviously Rahm and, and Cam Smith and, you know, Brooks aren't going to be there, but it's still a stacked field.
Speaker C:It's still, you know, a lot of guys, so.
Speaker C:And then of course, there's the majors where they're all at.
Speaker C:So I'm not sure it gives him much hope of that unless he were to add some more stuff.
Speaker C:I wish he would.
Speaker C:I wish he'd be able to.
Speaker C:The problem is, is what we were talking about earlier, the playing and then the recovery and getting ready again, if you're, if you're going to play the majors and then you want to play an event in between them, there's got to be enough time to kind of give yourself a break and then ramp back up.
Speaker C:And where are those tournaments for him?
Speaker C:You know, it's, it's like, can he play a tournament two weeks before the A major?
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:That means that there's only one week in between.
Speaker C:If he's spending that whole week having to recover and he can't even really get around very well, which is.
Speaker C:We don't know.
Speaker C:We don't know now.
Speaker C:You know, he's talked.
Speaker C:The surgery of his ankle last year after the Masters has done wonders for him.
Speaker C:It's really helped.
Speaker C:But I mean, how much?
Speaker C:So those are the factors going in and I don't know.
Speaker C:You know, Tiger just doesn't seem all that interested in playing.
Speaker C:I've thought all along, like, go to some venues where it's an easier walk, where the golf course isn't so strenuous.
Speaker C:Like you see it at a major or at Riviera or Torrey Pines.
Speaker C:Even go to Colonial, hit some irons off the.
Speaker C:Yeah, hit some irons off the tees.
Speaker C:He's world class iron player.
Speaker C:He's only played that tournament once in his career.
Speaker C:It didn't suit him.
Speaker C:It didn't suit his power game.
Speaker C:It might be good for him now.
Speaker C:And Colonial isn't like a 20 under golf tournament.
Speaker C:I think it would be perfect.
Speaker C:But the problem with Colonial is I believe it's the week after the pga.
Speaker C:Well, it's almost impossible to think he can play back to back weeks.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:And you know, the same with Hilton Head, which is the week after the Masters.
Speaker C:Like that would be another really good place for him, I think.
Speaker C:I think the Travelers would be good.
Speaker C:Maybe too much under par, you know, for him at this point where, you know, I think asking him to make a lot of ton of birdies is not that, not that great.
Speaker C:But that's the week after the US Open.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I, I wonder what goes through his mind.
Speaker B:And maybe you, I mean, you kind of touched on it in the book, but when you have he reached the pinnacle of his golf prowess, if you will.
Speaker B:Each time he got hurt, he worked back up to that or as close to that as he could get.
Speaker B:But I wonder how he Evaluates that in his mind, you know, like.
Speaker B:Like you were just talking, playing on some flatter courses, something a little easier like that.
Speaker B:That's one part of it.
Speaker B:But the other part of it is, does he still stand up there and say, I can hit this 900, this 900, 176 yards and wrap it around a tree and put it four, four inches from the cup?
Speaker B:I wonder if that's his mindset still.
Speaker C:I think it is, because I actually think he can do that.
Speaker C:If he's.
Speaker C:If he's been work.
Speaker C:If he's been working at it, he can do that.
Speaker C:And that.
Speaker C:That has not left him.
Speaker C:The problem is, is when you get in a tournament in between the ropes and you've not done it in competition, are you.
Speaker C:Do you trust it?
Speaker C:You know, some of those shots are not natural.
Speaker C:You had to have been practicing, practicing them, you know.
Speaker C:And, you know, you notice sometimes that, that when Tiger's not been playing great or if he's not been playing a lot, he'll just go to some stock shots, you know, he might just try to hit a cut and work with it, you know.
Speaker C:So a lot of it depends on things that we just don't know.
Speaker C:I mean, this is why whenever we get a chance to talk to him like you, you pepper them for how much you've been practicing, how much you've been playing.
Speaker C:Like, you try to get a sense for how rusty he is or not.
Speaker C:And, you know, when I watch him, I still find, you know, it's amazing.
Speaker C:Like, I'm not probably looking at it from the standpoint of trying to compare him to Scotty Scheffler.
Speaker C:I'm looking at just here, here's an amazing player still who's not played very much.
Speaker C:And look at what he's still bringing.
Speaker B:Well, you, you go back in the book and you were talking about you and, and Steve D. From usa the first time you ever watched him hit on the range and the noise, the sound that his clubs made striking the ball, and you'd never heard anything like that.
Speaker B:And I think that's still true to a degree.
Speaker B:You know, we've.
Speaker B:They get TV coverage and stuff now, and of course, with the advent of the Internet and all the different shows and PGA Tour shows, etc.
Speaker B:Etc.
Speaker B:You know, they get guys out there with their steady cams and they're watching these guys warm up and stuff, but still, when you hear that noise, it's.
Speaker B:To me, it's still somewhat different than if you hear Scheffler, Koepka or any of those guys hit the ball.
Speaker B:Tigers just sounds different.
Speaker B:And maybe it's because I'm a dyed in the wool Tiger fan, I don't know.
Speaker B:But I'm just saying it still sounds different.
Speaker B:He's still.
Speaker B:Whatever he found magically, you know, 30 years ago, it's still there.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker C:Tigers is still an elite ball striker and his peers talk about it sounding different.
Speaker C:Yeah, you know, it has a different sound.
Speaker C:You know, there's some guys who hit it solid like that.
Speaker C:Tom Watson was one who was like that.
Speaker C:You know, I, I think Scotty Scheffler is to a degree.
Speaker C:You know, he strikes the ball amazingly solid, you know, especially with all he's got going on in his swing with his footwork and everything.
Speaker C:And I, but yet I, I don't think any too many people compare to Tiger when it, when it comes to that.
Speaker C:There, there is a different sound and it comes, you know, he comes off of there.
Speaker C:It, it kind of snaps heads on a range.
Speaker C:Like if a player is hitting balls and doesn't realize that Tiger has shown up and is a couple spots behind him.
Speaker C:When he starts getting out the middle to longer irons and he starts hitting them, it's sort of like, wow, what's that?
Speaker C:You know?
Speaker C:Yeah, and they, and they notice who's there.
Speaker C:So, yeah, it's still.
Speaker C:And still.
Speaker C:It's still there.
Speaker B:Well, you reference it in the book, but.
Speaker B:And we've seen it many other times, quotes not only in written, but verbally.
Speaker B:People like Colin Montgomery talking about the first time he ever played with Tiger.
Speaker B:He'd never seen anything like that.
Speaker C:Tiger, Tiger sort of had a way of taking the air out of, out of the guys playing against him, especially when he was at his, at his best, because they, they realized that they might not have what he had.
Speaker C:And now you're going up against that.
Speaker C:And it was deflating at times.
Speaker C:I mean, as great as Ernie is, as great as Phil is, as great as, you know, VJ is, they, they kind of had to go up against him and see him beat them more than anybody ever had.
Speaker C:Now Vijay really has had a great run and a great record with Tiger there.
Speaker C: You know, Vijay: Speaker C:He won more than Tiger.
Speaker C:Ernie had his share of wins too.
Speaker C:You know, Ernie got Tiger a few times.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:But you may, you, you wonder how much better Ernie's record would be if there was no Tiger.
Speaker C:And same for Phil, you know.
Speaker C:Now Phil has, has said, and this is in the other book about Tiger and Phil, but you know?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I wonder how my career would have been if there had been no Tiger.
Speaker C:But I do know he made me get better.
Speaker C:And so maybe his record wouldn't have been as good if there was no Tiger.
Speaker B:True.
Speaker B:We're gonna take the break and we're gonna come back and wrap up the show with Bob Herring.
Speaker B:His new book Drive.
Speaker B:It's really good.
Speaker B:It'll be out in March and I recommend it anyway.
Speaker B:We'll be right back.
Speaker B:Don't go away.
Speaker D:Ready for a new ride?
Speaker D:Choose from over a thousand vehicles at Westin Kia.
Speaker D:Like a new Kia Sportage, Soul Forte, K4, Sorento, Telluride or Carnival Gas, electric or hybrid.
Speaker D:Oregon's all time leader in Kia sales.
Speaker D:Everyone wins at Westin.
Speaker D: -: Speaker D:Westin Kia has sold more new Kias than any other Kia dealer in Oregon.
Speaker B:Reported by KCOR hi, everybody, it's jt and this is a special version of Grilling at the Green.
Speaker B:Grilling at the Green is brought to you in part by Painted Hills Natural Beef.
Speaker B:Beef you can be proud to serve your family and friends.
Speaker B:That's Painted Hills Natural Beef.
Speaker C:This is an encore.
Speaker B:Welcome back to Grilling at the Green.
Speaker B:I'm jt.
Speaker B:We're talking with Bob Herrig today.
Speaker B:His new book Drive the Lasting Legacy of Tiger woods, be out in March.
Speaker B:Bob was kind enough to get me an advanced copy.
Speaker B:And no, I didn't keep track of the grammatical mistakes in there, but that's somebody else's job.
Speaker C:Thanks.
Speaker C:Thank you for that.
Speaker B:Yeah, no problem.
Speaker C:There's a few errors in that version you saw.
Speaker B:So we got about five, six minutes here.
Speaker B:You, you make references to.
Speaker B:And you talk to Steve Williams and Joe La Cava, two different people.
Speaker B:But which one do you think had the best working relationship with Tiger?
Speaker B:And I know they're different personalities.
Speaker B:They're different.
Speaker B:They're different guys, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah, but which one do you think?
Speaker B:To me, it was almost like Steve, and this is observation from afar.
Speaker B:Steve was Tiger's junior assassin, and Joe is like a steady hand on the.
Speaker B:On the rudder.
Speaker C:Yeah, I think the way I would answer that is to say that both of them were with Tiger at the right time for them.
Speaker C:In other words, when Tiger was at his best and dominating, he needed a guy like Steve.
Speaker C:He needed a guy who could tell him, no, you can hit this shot, or no, you can do this.
Speaker C:And he needed sort of an enforcer type guy, you know, who, who, who kind of, you know, looked out for Tiger.
Speaker C:He kept, you know, he was, you Know, he kept the media away.
Speaker C:He kept.
Speaker C:He was.
Speaker C:He.
Speaker C:And he was very, very confident and assured of himself in the heat of.
Speaker C:Of battle.
Speaker C: great example of that at the: Speaker C:Into the wedge shot that he hit.
Speaker C:Tiger was not sold on it.
Speaker C:And Steve was like, can you imagine?
Speaker C:Like, you're trying to tell this guy that, you know, who's not really buying it, that this is what you absolutely have to do.
Speaker C:And, you know, Tiger hit it to 12ft.
Speaker C:It was the right thing to do.
Speaker C:Joe came along at a time when Tiger was far more vulnerable.
Speaker C:2011, it's when the injury started to hit.
Speaker C:He hadn't won since the scandal.
Speaker B:He had.
Speaker C: He had missed a lot of: Speaker C:With an Achilles problem.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C: en, you know, sure enough, in: Speaker C: They won five times in: Speaker C:And Joe was kind of like a steady hand.
Speaker C:He wasn't the enforcer type, but Tiger maybe didn't need that then.
Speaker C:And I'm not sure that Joe was like, a forceful advocate for what was right and what was wrong on the course, but he would tell him when Tiger asked, and it was a good partnership there.
Speaker C:And, you know, the thing is, I would say that, you know, Tiger and Steve kind of left on bad terms, right?
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:Whereas Joe and Tiger did not.
Speaker C:And so that's where.
Speaker C:If there's a difference, that's probably it.
Speaker B:Do you think the door still open for Joe and Tiger on this limited schedule?
Speaker C:Well, because he's working for Cantlay now, I don't see how it works.
Speaker C:You know, he plays a full schedule.
Speaker C:He plays a lot of tournaments.
Speaker C:He.
Speaker C:I can't imagine Cantley wouldn't want to have him with him at the majors where Tiger's gonna play.
Speaker C:You know, it's.
Speaker C:It's interesting to me.
Speaker C:You know, Joe was about as loyal as a person could be.
Speaker C:He could have left many times, and.
Speaker C:But this.
Speaker C:This seemed like a very, very appropriate time.
Speaker C:It was clear Tiger was not going to play anymore.
Speaker C:Last year, after the Masters, I think Joe still wants to work, and.
Speaker C:And so he was able to hook up with a guy who's very competitive, obviously a.
Speaker C:A contender often, and.
Speaker C:And, you know, frankly, someone who he's going to make a lot of money working for.
Speaker B:Well, he probably will.
Speaker B:I'm not.
Speaker B:Maybe he doesn't.
Speaker B:Well, he's got kids.
Speaker B:He's got to put them through school.
Speaker B:So Joe does, I think.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, you know, you never know when you were going back, Bob, and when you were putting this book together and you've covered Tiger more or as much as anybody in his career.
Speaker B:But was there one thing that turned on the light bulb in your head and went, wow?
Speaker B:I. I didn't think of it that way?
Speaker C:I. I'm not quite sure there's anything quite like that.
Speaker C:I think I've been so immersed in it for so long that I came to, like, understand what he was all about.
Speaker B:That.
Speaker B:You know, Bob, that might be the biggest understatement I've ever heard you say is that Tiger was wired differently anyway.
Speaker B:And I'm not ripping on anybody.
Speaker B:I just think that.
Speaker B:I think you nailed it there.
Speaker B:The name of the book is Drive the Lasting Legacy of Tiger Woods.
Speaker B:Bob Herring, of course, and still at si.
Speaker B:And he's still standing, and so is si.
Speaker B:So according to Bob, we're going to do after hours here in a minute.
Speaker B:Bob, thank you so much.
Speaker B:What, the drop time is what, March 24th or something?
Speaker C:What, March 26th?
Speaker B:26.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker C:Which is actually two weeks ahead of Masters week.
Speaker B:Well, there you go.
Speaker B:There you go.
Speaker B:Okay, we got to get out of here.
Speaker B:We want to thank all of our sponsors and thank you, the listeners.
Speaker B:And we'll be back next week with another edition of Grilling at the Green.
Speaker B:Go out, play some golf, and be kind, everybody.
Speaker A:Grilling at the Green is produced by JTSD Productions, LLC in association with the Salem Media Group.
Speaker A:All rights reserve.
Speaker A:And remember, the key to lower scores, a pencil with an eraser.
