The Stories

• "Lunja" (Traditional Kabyle / Eastern European Jewish folklore) — Told by Jim
• "The Story of Balor of the Evil Eye" (Irish Mythology / Tory Island) — Told by Maria
• "The Fire in Chelm" (Yiddish Folklore) — Told by Jim

The Hook

What happens when we dare to step outside the locked rooms of our comfort and venture into the wild caverns of our shadow? In this intimate, host-only episode, Jim and Maria return to the "Story Road" to explore how ancient tales of skin-shedding, terrible prophecies, and wise fools act as medicine for the modern soul. From the high mountains of Morocco to the wind-swept cliffs of Tory Island, they reveal that the stories we find most "unpalatable" are often the ones holding the very light we need to navigate our own dark forests.

The Chapters

• [00:00] Introduction: Maria and Jim welcome listeners back for a celebratory, cozy, host-to-host episode, reflecting on the profound, shape-shifting nature of oral storytelling and their joy in walking this road together.
• [00:02] About the Story - Lunja's Origins: Jim traces the incredible migration of "Lunja," a tale originating with the Kabyle people of Morocco that traveled over mountains and borders to find a home in the Jewish communities of Eastern Europe.
• [00:03] Lunja (Told by Jim): Jim shares the first movement of Lunja's journey: a beautiful child kept hidden by protective parents, who is lured into the deep forest by five mysterious birds, finding herself at the mercy of a fierce, breast-flinging Ghoula.
• [00:14] Lunja Escapes the Ghoula: Seeking the Ghoula's deep secrets, Lunja plots her escape on a white horse with her impatient cousin, outwitting her foster mother with answers of wood, grass, and iron-willed survival.
• [00:18] Lunja's Return Home: Having failed the Ghoula’s final tests, Lunja's cousin is swallowed by a giant bird. Lunja must make her way home in the skin of a greyhound, living at the edge of the castle until she can slice open the beast and restore her family.
• [00:22] Reflections on Lunja: Jim and Maria unpack the visceral, "chewy" motifs of this ancient story: specifically the raw, challenging acts of skin-shedding and animal transformation that modern, sanitized minds often struggle to digest.
• [00:26] The Story of Balor (Told by Maria): Maria sweeps us away to Tory Island, telling the 3,000-year-old epic of Balor of the Evil Eye, the prophetic imprisonment of his daughter Ethne, and the birth of Lugh, who is destined to turn his grandfather's petrifying gaze back upon him.
• [00:34] Reflections on the Stories: The hosts reflect on how complex, "Russian-doll" epics were received aurally and kept alive through centuries by travelers, proving that stories only survive when they carry true soul-nourishing substance.
• [00:35] A Story from Chelm (Told by Jim): Jim recounts a short, witty story about the "wise fools" of Chelm, reminding us that even in the midst of the devastating fires in our lives, there is always a light being shed to show us the way.
• [00:37] Upcoming Workshops: Jim shares details on his upcoming interactive, four-session seminar starting July 1st, inviting listeners to slow down, digest, and find their own wisdom within these "healing monsters."
• [00:41] Closing — Story Road Farewell: Anticipating a beautiful community-driven movement with Paddy Doyle, Maria and Jim offer a heartwarming blessing of safety on the Story Road until they meet again.

Key Takeaways

1. The Survival of the "Chewy" Myth: True stories do not survive because they are comfortable; they survive because they contain "meat and potatoes." The bizarre, unpalatable parts of folklore (like slitting a greyhound to wear its skin) represent the radical, uncomfortable adaptations we must undergo to survive transition.
2. The Double-Edged Eye of the Ghoula: Monsters in folklore - be they the Ghoula of Morocco or Balor of Ireland - are not merely villains. They are guardians of transition, holding secrets that, when properly approached, foster our initiation into adulthood.
3. The Illumination of Loss: The humorous parable of Chelm teaches us "perspective." When our personal libraries catch fire, we should not focus solely on the tragedy; we must also use the flame's temporary brilliance to see where we are going next.
4. A Seminar of Equals: True storytelling workshops are not top-down lectures; they are collaborative spaces. Meeting bi-weekly allows participants to embrace both their inner wisdom and their inner "fool," letting the story quietly blossom inside them over time.

Closing & Call-to-Action

Are you ready to sit with your own "monsters" and see what shakes out? Join Jim’s upcoming four-session seminar starting July 1st. We meet every other week to give you time to digest, reflect, and share your own inner wisdom. Learn more and reserve your spot; and be sure to subscribe to the Healing Monsters Substack.

Become a part of our growing Transformational Storytelling Community, where we share stories not on grand stages, but house-to-house, living room-to-living room, and heart-to-heart. Be safe on the Story Road!

Hello from Cork.

Hello from New York.

Is mise Máire, Seanchai Chorcaí.

It's Maria, the Cork-based storyteller.

It's me, Jim, here in Fayetteville, New York.

We can't wait to tell you a few stories.

So Maria, it's good to be back.

It's good to be back at the Cork to New York podcast with you.

It is.

And we've had some lovely guests, and it's lovely to be dancing down the road with

people on the story road like ourselves.

But it's also really nice to be just here with you, and this

one is a complete celebration.

Yes.

Today, so as we get started, I will be doing a four-session seminar

on the story I'm about to tell.

And I thought I would give our podcast viewers, our loyal podcast

viewers, the opportunity to hear the story before anyone else.

And so that's what I have in mind for us today.

Oh, I'm, I'm so excited because it's that kind of story that nibbles at

the edge of your consciousness, and not only does it mean different things to

different people as you're telling it, like if you're telling it to 30 people,

30 versions are sure to go on their way.

But not only that, but I find working with you, Jim, that is, you could do

the very same work with me, um, today, and in a month's time if we repeat

it, I get different results or I get different nuances, and I love that.

It's like really the shape-shifting power of storytelling, and I'm so

excited for this course and for you inviting me to come along.

Thank you for that.

Yes.

Absolutely.

And you know, the same is true for me as the teller.

That I'm telling a new story each time,

Yes.

Yeah

… no matter, no matter what I intend.

I know that experience, yeah.

So today I'll share this story, and it comes to me from Morocco,

dear in our heart for both of us.

So much so, yeah.

I've found two versions of it.

I'll be telling the one that speaks to me most deeply.

But as I researched it, this was a story that was told in Morocco probably by the

Kabylia people, which is up in the north.

It was retold in Eastern Europe.

So it's, it's traveled around as well.

Yeah.

Um, and-

Good and wise stories do travel.

Th-

They certainly do.

They certainly do.

The name of this story is Lunja, and this is one of the times I

can tell you the name because it doesn't give anything away.

Um, so let's begin.

Lunja was a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful child.

She was an only child.

And she was so beautiful that her parents worried what would

happen if anyone ever saw her.

And so they kept her locked up in the house.

Her father would go away and work in the fields, but her mother

would be home and care for her.

And day followed month followed year, and she grew older and older,

and she never left the house.

No one came to visit her.

They just kept her all secure.

Well, it's not hard to imagine that if you were that young child,

you would be awfully curious about what was going outside the house.

So it happened that one day her father and her mother were away, and she

decided to check out the outdoors.

And she opened the door and she slipped outside and as if by magic,

five beautiful birds landed right in front of her, and they looked

up at her like they were hungry.

And she thought, "Oh, I've got to feed them." So she went into the house and

she brought out some grain and she fed them, but they still wouldn't eat.

And she tried all sorts of other things to feed them, but they just looked at

her like, "Feed us. Feed us." Now how would she ever have thought of this?

But she thought, "Well, maybe they need something more beautiful." And

she took out her mother's jewels.

And she brought her jewels to feed to the birds, and they immediately

picked them up and they flew away.

But they didn't fly far.

And she thought, "Oh, I'm gonna be in trouble now. I've got to get those

jewels back." So she went running after them, and they waited until she was

almost there and they flew away again.

And every time she got close, they flew just a little further away until

they came to the edge of the forest.

As she approached them that time, they said, "Don't come any further. It's

dangerous here. Our mother is a ghoul."

And so they said to her, "Do you want to go back home or

do you want to go with us?"

She said, "Let the river that takes you take me." And she followed them in.

They traveled through the forest until they came to a great dark cavern.

And the birds said to her, "Our mother is inside. She's a fierce

ghoul. Are you sure you want to come?"

And she said, "Let the river that takes you take me." And they

said, "Okay, here's what you do.

She's going to be laying down at this time of day, and as you enter the

cavern, you're gonna find a needle.

Ask the needle to let you through, and the needle will

open up and you can pass through.

And when you do that, she'll fall asleep.

And then you have to sneak in behind her, and her breasts are so large

and so long that she flops them over her shoulders when she sleeps.

And so you have to crawl up behind her and suckle at each breast.

And when you've done that, you'll be safe."

What else could she do?

She went up, she found the needle, she spoke to it.

"Please let me in." It let her in.

She snuck in and there, sure enough, was this horrible ghoul with these

long breasts thrown over her shoulders.

And she did just as she is told, and she suckled.

And with that, the ghoula woke up

- and she was angry.

And then she realized what had happened.

And she said, "Now that you've suckled from me, I can't eat you. If

you hadn't done that, I would have eaten you flesh, blood, and bone.

But now you're my milk daughter, and you'll stay with me forever."

And then each day, the ghoula would go out and she would find some

food and bring it back for Lunja.

And it was good food, but she knew she couldn't leave.

And it seemed like it would go on forever.

And as she was hiding in this cave, guarded by this ghoula,

you know what happened?

Her hair grew longer and longer and longer.

And every night, the ghoula would braid her hair, and then she would unbraid

her hair, and she would count the number of hairs that she had, 'cause that's

how carefully she was watching over.

Now, in a remote land, she had a cousin who she had never met, of

course, nobody had ever met her.

And this cousin, he was not… You know, he was the son of a sultan.

He was all stuck up.

He was just a bully.

And his friends were just getting tired of how much he would

bully them and push them around.

So they went to his grandmother and said, "You, you've gotta help us."

And she said, "I know this boy.

I'll, I'll, I'll help you." She said, "The next time that he pushes one of you,

you push him back and you push him into my house, and I'll take care of him."

And so that happened.

And as they pushed him into her house, she grabbed him by the scruff of the

neck and said, "Why are you such a bully?

You treat everybody-- You're just a weak, young boy.

You don't know anything.

You, you have a cousin who's being held by a monster, and you won't

do anything to take care of her."

And she so wounded his pride that he said, "I'll take care of her."

She said, "Well, good luck, 'cause she's being held by a ghoul." And one thing

led to another, and he decided he was gonna ride off and find his cousin.

And so he got on his beautiful white horse, and he took his wonderful greyhound

with him, and they rode off to the forest.

He went for miles and miles and miles.

And everyone he asked, "Do you know where this ghoula lives? Do you know where this

ghoula lived?" But nobody could help him.

But he came upon an old woman at the edge of the forest, and she knew the ghoula.

And he told her what he was trying to do.

And she said, "You don't realize how dangerous this ghoula is, but

I'll help you. I'll help you save your cousin. You stay here in my

hut, and I'll go check things out."

And the old woman went to the ghoula's cavern.

She stayed outside, and she watched and watched, and noticed

when she came and when she left.

And she came back to the cousin and said, "Go in the marketplace and buy

me some fat." He said, "Are we ready to rescue her yet?" "No, no, not yet.

It's gonna take time."

So he went and he got the fat, and she took the fat to the ghoula's cavern,

and she fed the birds with it, and helped them feel comfortable with her.

And then a few more days went by, and she kept watching and watching,

and she called out to Lunja, "Come.

I'm a friend of your cousin's and we're gonna rescue you.

Tell us what goes on in there." And so Lunja came out to the edge of the

cave, and she told her this and that about when she slept, when she woke up,

what she did, and she said, "There's secrets that she's never told me."

And the old woman said, "Well, you find out those secrets, and we'll

keep working on our plan." Now, this follows for quite a while, and the

cousin is just so anxious to get in there and just, ugh, so impatient.

But the old woman says, "We've got to know everything."

And finally, finally, finally, Lunja approaches the ghoula

and says, "You know I love you.

I'm your daughter.

You care for me so much.

But there are secrets that you have that you've never shared with me.

You don't trust me.

You know I love you.

Tell me.

Tell me."

And so the ghoula opened her heart and she started telling her secrets.

Day followed day, and finally Lunja said, "You know, you've told me so much,

and I love you so much, but not that I would ever do this, but how would

I escape if you would let me escape?"

Now the ghoula was no fool and she knew what was happening.

But she answered her questions and she said, "Well, if you were ever to try to

escape, I would of course follow you.

I would ask you a question.

I would ask you a question about how you eat.

I would ask you a question about how your horse would eat because you'd

have to be on a horse to escape me."

And she whispered the answers into Lunja's ears.

The next morning, when the ghoula left and the old woman came, she told

her everything and they set the plan.

Her cousin arrived the next morning , with his greyhound and his horse.

She leapt onto the back of the horse and they started to race off.

And of course, the ghoula knew this was gonna happen.

And so as soon as they take off, the ghoula is there chasing

them, and she calls out, "Stop.

Stop.

You're going so fast.

How is it you go so fast?

What do you eat that you not get tired?" And Lunja turned around

and called out the answers she had been given, "Wood and grass."

And so the ghoula stopped, and she started eating wood and eating grass, and it

made her heavy and it slowed her down.

But in the meantime, Lunja and her cousin kept riding on the horse.

And they got further away, and the ghoula started to catch up again, and

she called out, "What is it that your horse eats that he can run so fast?"

And Lunja turned back and said, "He eats his knees."

And the ghoula stopped and started eating her own knees.

And of course, she couldn't run then.

And she called out, "Lunja, Lunja, my daughter, please come

back." But Lunja kept riding.

And so she called out one more time, "You're gonna come across

two roads, one red and one white.

Follow the red one.

You'll come across two springs, one clean and one muddy.

Drink from the muddy one.

And if you do it wrong, you're gonna come across a huge white

bird, and he'll offer you food.

But when he does, make sure you let some of it drop in your lap."

When you've finished, he'll ask you to give him back what you ate."

And with that, the two of them left the ghoula far behind.

And of course, you know what happens.

They come to the two roads, one red and one white.

She's supposed to follow the red one, but the, the sultan's son

says, "Oh, we can't trust her.

We'll follow the white one." And they come across two springs,

one clean and one muddy, and he says, "Why would we trust her?

We'll drink from the clean one."

And because they broke what she told her, they came across this big bird.

And the bird says, "Here, let me give you some food." And the young prince

didn't do as he was told, but she did.

And so when they finished their meal, the bird asked for his food back,

she gave him what was in his lap.

But the prince had nothing to give her.

So what would a bird do in those circumstances?

She ate the prince and his horse, and she let Lunja continue on her own.

So Lunja and the greyhound start to make their way back to the sultan's palace.

The greyhound, of course, knew its way.

And as they're getting close to the palace, Lunja takes her knife and

she slits open the greyhound and skins him, and wraps herself in the

greyhound's skin, and approaches

the sultan's palace as if she were a greyhound.

And as the sultan comes up and sees his son's greyhound and knows something

terrible must have befallen him because the greyhound wouldn't come

without him if he was still alive.

And so he weeps and he puts the greyhound outside the castle.

And, you know, gives it some mediocre food, doesn't really

give it a place to play 'cause his, his, his heart is so broken.

Well, the next morning, the bird comes flying back and its belly is huge 'cause

it has the prince and the horse inside it.

And he's inside the bird, and he calls out, "Lunja, Lunja."

She says, "Yes, cousin."

"What are you eating?"

"Bran and water."

"Where are you sleeping?"

"Outside."

"Oh, I curse my parents who treat you like a dog." Of course

they treat her like a dog.

She looks like a dog.

But he, the bird, keeps coming back and asking this-- he asks the same

questions until finally a guard overhears.

And you know what?

He passes it on to the sultan.

And the sultan realizes that maybe there's a chance of saving his son.

And so he brings Lunja into the castle, still looking like a dog, but gives Lunja

the prince's bedroom, brings tremendous meals in, and the bird flies the next day.

The prince asks again, and she tells him, "I've slept in your

bed. I've had the best meals."

And the prince says, "Finally, finally, finally."

To make a long story short,

Lunja slices open the bird.

The prince emerges, and when the sultan and his mother come back the next day,

they see Lunja and the prince together.

And you know what?

I think they had a good life.

Ah, Jim.

I loved that story.

I love the really ancient stories that take their unwinding time,

and go to great depths, and have so much to chew on, because there

was many little stories inside the big story, like the Russian dolls.

Oh, I loved it so much.

And it reminded me of another epic, so I'm going to give

you the helicopter view of it.

But to tell the epic would take a week, you know, and maybe

it could be done sometime,

Well, and, and before you start, I will say that's about half the story.

That's about half the story.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There's, there's

much more.

You know, and there's two versions.

And there's two versions then.

And it traveled to, and it travels, so therefore there is meat and potato

in, in it when it travels, you know?

When merchants and, you know, the travelers brought the stories with them,

it was because it hit something in them.

Yeah.

Hit a heart, you know, hit their soul.

It made their mind work, and I think this story does all three.

It's a really chewy story.

It's a very chewy story.

It's lovely.

And I'll say the other version was brought, as best

we can figure, it ended up-

Mm-hmm

… Jim: in a Jewish community in Eastern Europe.

Yeah.

From the mountains of Morocco.

Exactly.

And you can imagine when those stories were being told, there was no tech.

So people would've been squashing in and listening in, and discussing this.

You know?

And it would be… Like I know that, that, um, you're hoping

a bit of that will come back.

You know, the, the wanting to chew it and discuss it- and you know, because

there's nourishment in a story like that, that can be missing in a lot of the soap

operas, for example- Yes … you know, um, which are kind of- regurgitating.

I also think there are parts of this story, as are

to so many of the old stories-

Yeah

that sound so strange and almost unpalatable.

I mean- to slit open the greyhound- Yeah … and to take on its shape.

It's clear that that's important, and that there's some shape-shifting going on.

There's all this stuff.

Yeah.

And why it's important is actually-

But it, it happens in a way that our people are not comfortable with.

Yes.

You know, you have to kind of sink into the story-

When I'm talking to the kids about where their food comes from, you

know, we're totally divorced from where our food comes from in this day and age.

So it, it even links in with those kind of questions that we're

asking ourselves in the modern day.

You know?

And as you were telling, the red threads that were coming out- … and

weaving themselves around me, Jim, were numerous and varied.

But one of the stories that came to me, another epic like this, so we, we

look a little bit at the helicopter view of it at the moment, but it ta- it

takes place in Tory Island in Armagh, in Colin Irwin's country, so very,

very near to him, this Island of Tory.

This story is 3,000 years old, and it talks about how human

beings came to take over from the, from the Sidhe, from those ones.

So it was the big, massive battle between the Fomorians and the Tuatha Dé Danann.

So it speaks to all of that.

And each, each part of this I have heard as a story.

So I'm going to weave them all together now into one story, but I would encourage

everybody to dig a little bit deeper into the Irish folklore, uh, annals and e- and

explore each story bit by bit, you know?

So, there was a king, and the king would be made a king by the Stone of Tara.

The stone would cry out the name of the king.

The king had to be absolutely beautiful in his physicality, so there was no

way that he was allowed to have one limb or missing fingers or a nose that

was crooked or anything like that.

So he had to be a, a highly beautiful, perfectly intact physical specimen.

So you can imagine in a warrior nation, that was difficult

enough to come across, you know?

And then there was the druids: the druids who could use the plants

all around for good or evil.

So you had the dark druids, and you had the druids of the white, you know?

And one of the child druids came into the court one day and gave this

horrendous prophecy that the child of the king, whose name was Balor, that

he was going to be killed by his own son, by the grandson of the now king.

And Balor was not happy about this at all, and he tried to find out, you know,

kind of what he could do about this.

So he went up to the forbidden round tower of the druids.

The reason they forbade people to come was for their own good, and the reason they

told terrifying stories was so that the stories would be a guard around the tower

to keep the children out, but not Balor.

And this day, a number of druids were experimenting behind big stones, and

the concoctions that they made, they leaked these noxious steams and smokes of

every dark color that you could imagine.

And Balor walked in with his eyes open, and they affected his

eyes, and he started to scream.

And he came outside, and the druids did their best, but his

eyes had transformed into but one eye in the middle of his forehead.

And as he grew, the eye grew bigger.

And as he grew, he grew three times, four times, five times the size of a normal

man because the smoke and the steam from the druids' concoctions had made their

way into the molecules of his body.

And when he opened that eye, and he cast his eye upon you, the first thing that

happened was you were turned to stone.

But as he grew in powers, what would happen is you would turn into stone,

and then you would begin to fold down and down until you exploded, until

there was blood and guts everywhere.

And all the time, he couldn't stop thinking about this horrible prophecy

that his own child would kill him, and he decided he'd never fall in love.

But you can decide what you want, and your heart will go out and find its own way.

And he found a woman that he loved, and he took her to an island,

and there they had many children.

And the most beautiful of those children, a girl, was called Ethne.

She was so beautiful, with a voice so tinkly, that when you came into her

presence, you thought that you were in the presence of the Sidhe themselves,

and of the highest echelon of the Sidhe.

And he thought she will never know of men, so she walked with the maidens.

And he kept her locked up in a tower, in a beautiful prison,

preserving her innocence.

And she knew nothing of men until the day that Cian came to be there.

And the story how Cian came to Tory Island is so beautiful,

but it belongs to another day.

For now, just know he arrived there, and he was beautiful.

And he used the gifts of the Fianna to ghost his way to this big, round tower.

And he peeked in the window and he saw a woman playing a harp

with the most beautiful voice he had ever heard in all his life.

Ethne, what a beautiful name.

Ethne.

And he climbed in the window, and nature had its way, and soon she was with child,

and she did not know what was happening because she had been kept so innocent.

And the handmaiden said, "Oh, you are to give birth." And they put their

hands on her belly and they said, "Oh, and we will have to hide you from

your father, for it is not one child you will give birth to, but three."

And when the time came, the roars of labor could be heard all the way down

the country of Ireland, as far as Cork.

And Balor woke to the idea that his daughter was having babies.

He sent his armies, and he followed, lumbering along.

It now took four men with a special rod to push up the lid of his horrible eye.

Ethne begged Cian to leave with the babies, to save her children.

So he put them into the bottom of a currach, and he headed for the water.

And while he was on the river, two of those babies were

killed, but one survived.

One survived that was half god, half human, for Cian was human, and

Ethne, the daughter of Balor, a god.

A god from the Tuatha Dé Danann.

And so he went to be minded by Mannanon Mac Lir, god of the sea.

And Goibniú, who was the great blacksmith god, and Credne, and

Dian Cecht, who was the fantastic druid that could heal anybody.

And they planned the battle and how they would get their revenge on Balor.

And when Lugh came of age, so beautiful like his mother, so strong

and wily like his father, it took him seven years to make the plans.

Seven years to see how they could make people well after they had been

struck down by the eye of Balor, to see how they might take Balor down.

And the day came, and father and grandson, who had never, ever

met because of the pride of the grandfather, came into battle.

One, a hulking, huge character.

The other, on the precipice of manhood.

And he managed to cast a stone into Balor's eye and fulfill the prophecy.

Sin é mo scéal.

That is my story.

And I'm conscious that there are so many stories within the story just

like yours, which is where the red thread of story brought us today.

Hmm.

Hmm.

Hmm

And so many echoes of stories from other people in there- Yeah … as well.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh!

And intricate, you know?

Yes.

So- Yeah

Imagine that those stories would've been told orally and received aurally

… and yet they survived, you know?

It's amazing

Which only happens when the stories have substance.

Yes.

Very true.

The recollection of where I went to have breakfast yesterday will pass.

Yeah.

But these sorts of stories… I'm thinking a story doesn't have

to be epic to have substance.

That's true.

But it has to have substance if it's an epic to survive.

That's it.

I think of this short story, and I'll just really quickly share it,

that you might think, "Why would this survive?" And this is the story, and

I've told it so many different ways.

I hope I haven't already told it here.

I don't think so.

This is a story of Chelm, which is the wise fools.

One of the fellows is awakened in the middle of the night in this small

village with the sounds of great bells being clanged and people shouting,

and he doesn't know what's going on.

And he wakes up enough and he finally realizes there's a fire

in the middle of the night.

So he does what everybody else in the village is doing.

He runs out and he grabs a bucket and he runs to the well, and he carries

it to the building that's on fire.

Let's say it's a library.

As he's throwing his water on the fire, the library fire, he

says to the fellow next to him, "Thank God the library's on fire."

And his neighbor says, "What are you talking about?"

He says, "Well, it's the middle of the night. If it wasn't for the fire,

we couldn't see what we were doing."

And, you know, this, you would think this is just a silly little story.

Why would it persist?

Yeah.

I've learned about this and other stories that there's

a really deep truth in there.

That in the midst of the fires in our lives, there's some light being shed.

Mm-hmm.

And it's not that we want to set the library on fire every

night so we can find our way.

But when it does catch on fire, let's not forget-

There is light

… Jim: the light that it gives off.

Yeah.

Um.

And you've just described perspective, you know?

Yes.

And I absolutely love the work that you do in the workshops to make us

conscious of perspective, of near and far.

And I cannot wait to get involved in this, uh, in these beautiful

workshops that you're going to deliver.

Um, because there is something, you know, I, I, I had many resonances with, with the

story and with- Mm-hmm … what, and with what you've said, and especially with the

second story that made me laugh so much.

But also has wisdom in it.

Uh, and it would be easy for me to say, "Well," but it's more

difficult to go, "I sit with that."

Yeah.

Yeah.

I sit with that, and I'll sit with other people in a little group- and

we'll see what shakes out, you know?

And that in itself is a listening discipline, you know?

And they often say, "Two of these," pointing to the ears, "and one

of these," pointing to the mouth.

So one of the really lovely things that I love about this story that you're

about to deliver us again, with different perspective and a different magnifying

glass on it, one of the things I really love about it is how it shape-shifts

your own perception in the world.

And you know and I know, that in our own personal stories, that led us out of

the corporate and- secure, money-wise

field into this beautiful work.

Yeah.

Well, and I do wanna just say a word about how I do these now, because I, I've been

doing- this kind of work for a long time.

But what I've settled on, which really seems to work well, is,

I don't do workshops per se.

I do seminars.

So what that means is that we all come in as- not only learners but teachers.

Yeah.

We all are bringing our own wisdom even if we don't know what it is at

the moment as we walk through the door.

And also embracing our own innocence.

So-

Yes

… Maria: like, you know, the wisdom of the fool.

Yes, yes.

As displayed in that last story.

Yes.

Yeah.

We meet every other week instead of every week-

Yeah

… Jim: so that people have a chance to sit with the story and digest

it- and see what blossoms from it.

Yeah.

So it's four weeks.

It starts on July 1st.

And,

um- July 1st.

Yeah.

In the height of the summer.

And you'll be able to learn more at my Healing Monsters Substack, so.

Healing Monsters Substack.

Yeah.

And do you have a website?

Yeah, healingmonsters.substack.com and the link will be

in the show notes, so.

Fantastic.

Yeah.

Aye.

I'll see you there, Jim, on the Story Road.

Again, a real pleasure.

Not to say that it isn't a pleasure to bring in other voices, 'cause it is.

Yeah.

But it's also nice to have this time where we can just chat with each

other and share stories with each other.

I'm really have to say, though, now, in the strange world and timeline of

podcasting, our listeners are gonna hear this before some of the other

podcasts we've already recorded.

And we, you will hear from Paddy Doyle in the not too distant future,

about an effort that's he's part of underway to just gather people

together and share stories informally, you know, without having big

performances or venues, but house to house, living room to living room.

Yeah.

Neighborhood to neighborhood to share stories, and that's-

Yeah … that's part

of what our podcast will be.

And that's part of my legacy as well.

That's why I'm called Story From Seeds.

Right.

Yeah.

Because, uh, a little seed can grow into a very big tree.

Yes.

Yeah.

And with many other, um, offshoots.

Yeah.

Will we say goodbye from Cork?

Goodbye from New York, but only for a while, because we'll be

back again with another episode.

Absolutely.

We can't wait to see you on The Story Road one more time, and from this

time till that, be safe on The Story Road.