This week on Should I Care? we (Sophie Griffiths & Ruthie Walmsley) get into the question Ruthie brought straight off the back of her own launch plans, fresh from a holiday neither of us has quite come back from: should I care that my group programme isn't growing as fast as I want?

Because most of us build the thing in a burst of excitement, get it open, get the proof of concept, get the lovely testimonials, and then land somewhere much quieter. It's working. People love it. It's just not moving. And then September arrives and everyone decides this is the month to fix it.

Sophie ran her first group programme for 9 months before she sat down and did the maths on it. Ruthie says out loud the thing most of us do very quietly, which is bottle it on the price, and then bottle it again.

In this episode:

• The group programme Sophie ran for 9 months before working out she needed 40 people in it, and how many were actually in there
• Ruthie doing the numbers, landing on a price, and then dropping it twice before she launched
• The 3 pillars Sophie takes every client through when a group offer stalls, and the one they all tell her to leave alone
• Buy, build or borrow, and why sitting on just one of the three keeps you bobbing around the same number forever
• The midnight spiral with Claude that becomes "I think I need to add one-to-ones", and the question Sophie asks instead

New episodes every Tuesday.

Follow Sophie: @sophiegriffithsco & Ruthie: @firstpersonnarrative

When you're ready, here's the next step:

Outrageous – for established women coaches and service providers who want their group offer to hit 6 figures without them being the engine of every sale. [Find out more]

Show notes links:

Lucy Legal, where Sophie gets her contracts. Both are affiliate links, just so you know.

AI Legal Toolkit (£97): https://www.lucylegal.co.uk/a/2148134164/ZPrrYXQy

AI Policy (£47): https://www.lucylegal.co.uk/a/2148134165/ZPrrYXQy

Ruthie's Bloody Good Story Club - https://ruthiefpn.myflodesk.com/wait2

The Wandering Chapter book truck [click here]

The social media post about the 10 businesses [click here]

Hello, and welcome to this week's episode of Should I Care?

With me, Sophie Griffiths

And me, Ruthie Walmsley

Oh my goodness, that intro was really hard work.

We're obviously out of practice from all our holidaying.

How are you?

Good.

I am still transitioning, I would say, back from holiday otherwise really well.

How are you?

How was your holiday?

The holiday was good.

I did as I planned, deleted all the apps.

I totally switched off from work, which was really nice.

and the trouble is, and this is, I think, genuinely, this is why I don't

do it very often, is because then, I find it really hard to come back.

I remember one year, I think I, deleted Instagram for about

two weeks over Christmas.

I don't think I reinstalled it till, mid-January.

It wasn't a very good business decision, but you know when you're just like,

"I just… No, I just… I don't want to reengage with that." It takes me

quite a while to disengage with it.

And, I know this… I feel a bit embarrassed admitting this.

I'm sure other people do as well.

But you know when you're out and about, and like automatically my mind is like,

"Oh, I'll just take a quick picture of stories," or, "Oh, that would be good on

a post." and I'm like, "Sophie, just…" And it's not like it's distracting me, but

it's just like a filter there all the time of "Oh, I'll put that on stories later."

So it takes me a while to, retrain myself out of that.

Tick

you just,

that off.

Yeah

just be yourself, babe.

You don't need to worry about taking a picture for Instagram.

and then so to come back into it then feels a bit jarring.

The other side as well

jarring is the exact word I would use for my return from holiday.

question this with myself all the time because I do switch off,

I'm pretty good at it as well.

It happens, I would argue potentially a little bit too quickly.

I'm like, "I'm out."

I'm out, gone

gone.

and so we were away for 12 days,

things I take off my phone are Slack and my email.

I kept my socials on, but I just go onto my own personal account

for, scrolling purposes and stuff.

I switch off very quickly, but , my return I find so hard.

Yeah

of it especially.

I don't find it hard working with my clients again, 'cause

No.

No

them.

don't find it hard returning to my group program.

I find it hard creating content.

I find it hard getting back into planning mode for my business.

I was really hoping that I would, have, these, big downloads while I was

Yeah.

Like, all the clarity's gonna come.

When I'm less busy, the clarity's gonna come.

That clarity did not come.

I just was reading, drinking a cocktail, having a lovely time, and then, this

morning I was doing my journaling and I was just like, "What the fuck?" I need to

get switched back on for my own business.

I said that I was gonna be doing a launch, and I'm, like, still just drifting around

going like, "God, holiday was nice."

Yeah

loved the holiday, but I do find the return really tricky

I'm the same.. I mean, we moved house as well.

So we got back off holiday on… I know, right?

Just throw that grenade in.

Finally.

I'm incredibly grateful to have moved house.

It has been,

Yes

oh my God, the , challenges we've had and the resilience we've had

to have to get into the house.

So I'm super pleased we are finally moved.

but yeah, we got back from holiday on the Friday.

The Saturday, the packers came, and then the Monday we moved.

Yeah, my mom had a sick bug, so she couldn't look after

the kids on the day we moved.

The Tuesday, my youngest had a sick bug, so it was just a lot.

And then Tuesday I was meant to be back at work.

So she had a sick bug.

The eldest, had to stay at home as well.

Both my husband and I were back at work after 10 days off, and yeah.

You know where you're just like, "Oh, this is a bit much. This

is a really bit much." Yeah.

Yeah.

for being alive post that, to be honest.

I

I'd have just had to go, "Do you know what?

I'm done here.

I'm done.

I'm out.

it is basically what I did.

I had a really great client call in the morning for an hour from 10:00

00,, and then I basically just didn't work the rest of the day.

I was like, this is just enough." and super, super grateful that I

have a business that I can do that 'cause my husband couldn't do that.

He literally was like, "Well, I'm back at work.

, This is not a leave day.

I mean, he's got good flexible job, but He's back off leave, for after

10 days to… He was required, yeah, whereas I was like, " nobody needed me.

So yes, I wanted to catch up, and yes, I felt a bit of friction 'cause I was

like, "Oh, I just wanna dig into it.

I just wanna get started.

I wanna get myself organized.

I wanna get my head back in it." But actually, client-wise,

nobody was expecting anything.

Nobody needed anything from me.

, I could just say, "Do you know what? Not today." So

Yeah,

that's been nice.

Yeah.

I'm glad you're in your new house.

I'm glad you had a lovely holiday, and I just think we're probably

feeling what everybody's been feeling.

Yeah.

always like this.

Yeah, it really is

we're all- we're juggling a lot.

like the end of the summer.

Yeah.

the heat's been exhausting.

Yeah.

the heat has been exhausting.

I think it's also, and I was thinking about this, 'cause this week I don't

have a huge amount of client, delivery.

people don't need a huge amount from me this week.

But there's this feeling, and I know my clients are feeling this as

well, of back to school, September.

September's a big month.

I wanna be prepared.

It's very hard, I think, to stay switched off as a business owner if, September

is gonna be, a month that you're really gonna lean into and get more people

into your offers or sell something.

It's very hard to start dead at the beginning of September or…

, realistically, it's not even the beginning of September, it's when the kids go back.

And that first clear week, so I think it's like the 7th this year,

week commencing the 7th, that's your first clear week where you're like,

"Okay, we're fully out of the school holidays, I can refocus on my business."

The trouble is, if you start then, you're not really launching in September

because , to prep everything and , to get people then to a workshop and decide

when the workshop is and promote it, it's like you're looking at a really

good three, four week sort of lead time.

But then that's October.

That's not September.

and I think that's really hard

I think we should relaunch this for everyone's benefit.

I think we should stop saying September launches.

Yeah.

I think everyone needs us to lead this charge, Soph.

Because I am meant to be doing a September launch.

I've got no intention of really giving that proper until, well, until Wilfred's

back at school, because I I don't want to.

I can't.

I just, I need him back at school.

I need the quiet in the house.

' So like today my husband's taken him out for the day, so I have got an empty

house, but by the time they're out,

Yeah.

11 o'clock,

Yeah

then they'll roll back in about two o'clock, three o'clock.

and so yeah, I think we just, everyone needs us to just reinvent

this September launch as being like September runway maybe,

Yes.

and that's where I am.

Although I've got real, what they call champagne problems, ,, because I'm going

to Australia for two weeks in October.

Oh my God, of course you are

I know.

So from the 13th of October to the 26th, I get back, which

is the Monday of half term.

It is a business retreat.

I'm not totally switching off from the business.

I will still be doing stuff.

I'm still doing client work.

I'll still be available, but just not in the same way.

I'm not running a launch while I'm in Australia.

absolutely not.

And , I don't wanna do any, , client delivery.

I don't wanna do, a mini offer or anything like that while I'm there.

So I fully intended to be like, "Nope, this September I am not doing anything.

I'm just, I'm gonna support my clients.

I'm just gonna…" And now I'm like, "Ugh, okay." because I chose to go to

Australia for essentially three weeks of October, I'm bringing it forward.

However, I have literally pushed it till as late.

So , I am gonna be launching, my mini offer, Obsessed, which

I did at the beginning of the year, and I'm gonna do it again.

It's all about offers, offers that you're obsessed with, offers that you

love because, they don't burn you out, and you can scale them without, feeling

really stressed, and, your clients love, and that they move between different

offers, that they, stay, they grow.

It's not launched yet.

But from the 5th of October.

So I'm gonna do a workshop, a free workshop on, I think

it's, the 23rd of September.

So

I feel like that is, runway September, delivery

That's runway…

early October.

Yes, exactly.

my offer goes live September the 4th That's what we all feel like we're meant

to be doing., I've got to have my offer live for the moment that people are back

at their desks after the summer holidays,

Yeah

moment people are back in that September energy.

But I don't feel anywhere near being in a purchasing frame of mind at the minute.

No,

I need a couple of weeks as a purchaser, not just as a business owner

Yeah, I agree.

And I think that, that leads us nicely into what we were gonna talk

about today, as an overarching theme.

Should I care that my group is not growing as fast as I want?

I'm gonna say, because this is something that keeps coming up with my clients.

I know it's something like we've talked about before, and there's so many

different elements to it, and I think September's a real time where people put

a lot of pressure on themselves to be like, " Right,, I'm gonna get people in."

Often it's about group offers September.

you can sell one-to-one and done for you, but I would say there's

less about that, in September.

It's much more about memberships, three-month programs 12 weeks,

six week sprints, whatever it is, it feels like quite time-bound.

which is normally more of a groupie thing, I would say.

Yeah, I think because there's year end,

hard stop of the end of December I

Yeah

you're sort of like trying to think what would fit nicely What would fit neatly

maybe a nice little threemonth group program Do you know what I mean So I

Yeah.

Whereas I think often and I'm sure people are selling onetoone I'm sure there's

loads of appetite for it but when I'm looking to work with someone onetoone

for me that's often a January thing I'm thinking like Oh I'm gonna work with

someone onetoone this year But yeah I do think there's something about this

time of year does get people feeling

a little bit group offery maybe like you say 12 weeks or something like that But

yeah I think group offers are aren't they

but I think sometimes I was just like I want to do a group offer I was really

excited about it I definitely align with that whole thing that you just described

with obsessed in that I am obsessed with this group offer I've created I love it

I absolutely love it and I've got that proof of concept and the women in there

are saying lovely things about it and I've already got these amazing testimonials

it's been open since April but then I'm like Now what It's not bringing me in

huge amounts of revenue at the minute and that was intentional because I needed

to see proof of concept and did it work But I think there's loads of us that are

like Okay if I leave this group offer as is it's not really doing much for my

business in terms of revenue generation it's a little bit of money extra great

but it's not like bankrolling anything the next step That's where I am I'm like

Okay so I'm gonna do another launch but then what And so I think it's a really

good thing for us to dig into for people because I think there's lots of us that

are either like Okay I wanna scale it and I'm ready to go or What should I do next

Yeah

What should I do next?

And I think it's so interesting, isn't it?

Because what often happens, and I see this happen quite a lot, And

I've done this as well, by the way.

I flip-flopped between, I was doing one-to-one done for you ads, and I

was like, Hugh, I need a group offer.

I need a group offer.

I'm gonna scale.

If I want more money to come in, I'm literally, capping myself with

one-to-one or done for you at the time.

I just … I need to do a group offer to scale my revenue." Then

I did it, got it all set up.

It was called Bloom, and it was an ads course.

I know.

I had very different branding then.

And it was, a six-month ads course, and I talk about this quite a lot.

brought people in.

It brought me some additional revenue, but

I was so desperate for people to join.

I just wanted people in.

Like you said, I wanted to test the proof of concept.

I had so much to give.

I knew I could help.

Just wanted people to come in.

And so I think it was, like, 100 pounds a month or something

like that for six months.

It was, like, 600 pounds in total, and it was, like, wildly cheap.

And I gave so much, so much.

There was, , group calls.

There was a community.

There was loads of content.

, I'd jump on a quick call if they couldn't work out the pixel.

there was so much.

And then in the end I had, 15 people in it, which I was like, "That was

really good," but it was bringing in, yeah, 1,500 pounds a month.

And it was like, suddenly I got to this point where I was like, I'm feeling

like this is almost my full-time job.

I'm actually really now … I'm really not neglecting, but I'm feeling a bit

of pressure with my one-to-one, done for you clients because actually they're a

lot easier because, I knew them so well.

So I was like, but if I actually want to drop, a done for you

client and let this take over, I think I worked the numbers out.

I was like, I needed to have, 40 or something in there at any one

time, which meant, every launch I'd have to bring in another 20.

it was suddenly I was like, " This is just not set up to bring in the numbers

that I need it to bring in." So I stopped it and went back to one-to-one and I did

one-to-one training instead of done for you and hit 10K months within, a month

or two because I just had a few clients.

I charged higher.

It was one-to-one training.

again, and that ended up burning me out again, and so I had to rethink again.

But It's really hard, I think, 'cause people assume, and I think

it can look really easy online to just be like, "Yeah, do a group.

Make more money.

Drop your one-to-ones." I hear a lot about, "Oh, one-to-ones are so draining."

having one-to-ones or done-for-you clients, it's so much pressure.

It's like, I need that space.

I need to just do, one group call a week.

But the amount of time and energy you have to put into, A, consistent

delivery, but also, the launches, the getting the people in, the volume.

It's a real consideration, and I think a lot of people really plateau.

So they'll get to a point where they've got, a number in their group which

feels, doable for them capacity-wise.

But also, people drop off, they do a launch, they refill those people, and they

just bob around this number all the time.

And at some point you have to make a decision, where you're like, "Am

I gonna go all in on this and really grow it? And how do I do that if I'm

already at capacity with 10 people, but I need 40?" , And also, am I really

committing to, consistently growing this?

'Cause it's a lot of time.

I think it is And you were kind enough to be talking to me my group offer And

I think you talked about there being different sections of it that you need

to be looking at And I think it's really hard when you are a solo entrepreneur

almost have that strategic point of view when you're thinking about your group

offer And God I've worked with the most amazing businesses and so I know in theory

what I should be doing we all know that when you're looking at your own business

just becomes much harder And so I was like goal is I'm gonna do a group program

And I'm really proud of myself for doing that It required a lot of tenacity of my

Yeah

cause

Yeah

telling me to do it I'm not working with a coach at the moment so I have no

accountability other than my own I'm proud of myself getting it off there and I'm

proud of myself for the product that I've created But then I'm like when you were

talking to me kindly enough about how you view group programs I was like Shit I

just haven't even really thought of that I had a penny drop moment when you said

two things One was about the offer and you were like you really do need to think

how scalable is the offer Just because something works for 10 would it work for

100 And I was like actually there are parts of the Bloody Good Story Club that

are high value to the people in there but they're not that scalable actually

Nej

be able to do it for 100 people And then the other thing that I was like Shit

Sophie that's annoying You're right was when you were like have you exhausted

your audience has everybody who was gonna join the Bloody Good Story Club already

joined it And I just I think it's hard when you're just trying to get something

off the ground to have the bigger picture thinking And so I wonder would you be

comfortable sharing the little bits of insights you were able to give me about

how you perceive those group programs

Yeah, for sure.

And I think this is what so many people come to me with.

And I think, like you were just saying, it feels like, " Oh, shit, I

haven't even thought of those things.

Like, why didn't I think of that?" and you know.

You've seen it from the inside.

You know what people are doing.

But I do think the reality of it is, when you have a group program,

it doesn't matter whether it's a membership or super high ticket, like

whatever it is, you want, and the people I work with anyway, want their

clients to get incredible results.

And so they are like all in on it.

They're delivering and, making sure they're available, and they are supporting

their clients, and they are, like you say, they're so in love with the offer

that they're delivering generally.

Although that can turn, and I think, when you get to a point

where you're like, actually you're feeling quite resentful of having to

be on again and having to do this.

But it's so easy to be like, "Oh, I'll push the problem of getting more people

in down the line." if you're not really thinking about it when you're thinking

of Instagram, you're not running ads, you're not growing your email list,

And then the other big thing I think people really miss is like you're not

positioning yourself as an authority.

I actually don't think that's a problem for you.

I think you do that really well.

But I think sometimes , the group program, can be very broad.

This is what I see a lot.

Why am I coming into your general marketing program?

actually yours is incredibly specific and niche.

It's about the bloody good story club.

You only come to you if you wanna be telling better stories, if

you wanna use stories on social, if you want that connection.

Unless you, already have a really big following or you're already

a name, and you have enough of an oomph, setting up a general grow on

Instagram, that's not the way to grow.

You have to have an angle on why people should join your one.

but yeah, generally there's three core pillars I work with the clients, and

the first is like that real basic- the offer, the actual offer set up, and people

never wanna talk to me about their offer.

They always think the offer's great.

They're always like, "No, the offer's great.

People love the offer.

I love the offer." Or they're like, "No,

offer alone

leave my offer alone.

Fuck off with your offer chat." And I'm like, honestly, everyone that comes to

work with me, we end up starting with the offer because if we do something

which most people are like, "Ugh, I don't wanna do that," but I make them

do it, is we look at the numbers.

Genuinely because when I look back now, like you say, I can't

believe I ran my group program for nine months without doing this.

Without working out how many people do I need, to bring in the money.

Let's say it's the… I can't remember what the number was at the time.

Let's say it was 10K, and I needed 40 people in.

why did I not work out that meant could I actually run this

offer with 40 people in it?

Realistically, could I run this offer?

And it might be that I couldn't have run it on my own, but I could, maybe

if I had a co-coach, or maybe if I'd automated some bits, it could have worked.

But generally, I would say that's one of the biggest things that trips people up

is that they say, "Oh, I want , recurring revenue. I wanna make 10K a month, and

I'm gonna do it with this group offer." And then you look at the offer, and you're

like,, A,- let's say you need 40 people.

Could you actually deliver this offer to 40 people in the amount

of time that you want to work?

'Cause let's bring that into it because often a lot of us are like, "And I only

wanna work between 10 and 3, like Monday to Thursday. and I want Fridays off,

and I wanna be able to go to the gym."

Yeah, exactly.

"I wanna be able to just have a super flexible lifestyle."

can you actually deliver it?

And also, can you commit to bringing that amount of people in every year?

And we can talk about this probably later, but this is where the high ticket, low

ticket thing comes in, or even mid ticket.

if you have a lower ticket offer, you will have to bring more people

in, and like I know it's getting a bit numbersy, and people always get

a little bit glaze over when I start talking about this sort of stuff.

But if you say you want I don't know, 100 people in your membership, how many

people do you need to be in your audience?

How often does that need to be topped up?

'Cause if you think if you need 100, you need more volume.

How are you bringing the volume in?

Are you bringing it in through ads?

Are you bringing it in through organic?

Are you bringing it in through borrowing other people's audiences?

how are you bringing it in?

and then high ticket is the flip of that.

It's like you need much lower amounts, but you also have to find the people

that are willing to pay it, and you have to get behind the price, right?

So you have to be able to say "I'm happy to charge four

and a half K for six months."

the squeaky moment

Yeah.

Yeah.

for so many of us and actually I was feeling a little attacked when you were

just talking because I was like I know enough to do the numbers And so I was

like when I came up with the idea of having a group program and I'm sharing

this cause I think it will be relevant for lots of people listening I was like

I wanna do a group program cause I wanna move away from what is currently 100

onetoone client work done for you work for clients and it feels in the current

situation risky And I wanted to have more of a sense of me being able to

generate income for myself if I wanted to

Yeah

So I was like in an ideal world I wanna get to a 5050 model where 50 time is spent

on client work and 50 of the time is spent on first person narrative stuff So then

I did the working outs of that and I was like and actually I wanna up my income a

little bit I wanna use this as a way of generating more income Cause obviously

when you're doing done for you your time is your capacity So when you've run out

of time you can't earn more money You can put your prices up but there's a limit to

that as well And so I was like actually if I do this then in that 50 I could scale

my income So I was like let's be ambitious So I did the numbers and then I bottled

it at pricing So I did the numbers I knew okay I would need this many people I know

my audience isn't huge I'm not running ads at the moment I haven't run ads So

I'm like okay gonna need to price it at a point that will do some of that legwork

for me and then didn't because I bottled it And I think that's such a big part of

it isn't it so many of us it's as you said how comfortable are you with charging the

bigger numbers and how comfortable are you with saying Okay this is how much it

costs And even when I came up with a lower price when it came to actually launching

it I lowered it again And it was fear

yeah, and honestly, it's so common.

And the work that I often do with clients and normally, so with Outrageous,

people already have a group program when they come into Outrageous, so

they've been through this cycle.

And I would say for your, first launch, you get it out there, proof of concept.

I honestly I am the type of person that I am like, go with what you can sell.

I would actually say, . what's the price that makes you feel like you could say

it to someone and be like, "That's a fucking bargain." you are like, "This is

incred- guys, why would you not join this?

It is so good.

The price is a no-brainer." Because I think when you're launching something

for the first time, you need that energy of course you're gonna join this.

Of course.

It's so good.

Why wouldn't you?

But I think the trap that people get stuck in when they eventually

come to me, is that they then don't feel they can increase the price.

So they get themselves stuck at that low no-brainer price they tell themselves,

"Just to get the first people in, just to get those people in. I'll get

started, I'll get the testimonials. I'll make sure it all works, like

I'll get great proof, and then I'll feel more confident charging more."

And often then it comes to it and it's like, "Yeah, but oh, I only got so,

so many people in the first launch.

if I charge more, what if I don't get as many people?

What if people don't join it?

I just need some more people in now.

It's really key that I get more people in, so I'll keep the price a bit

low just so I get more people in."

And I think it's really hard because I often find that price actually

isn't, price isn't the barrier that a lot of us think it is.

It's really about perceived value.

And so we can think, oh, if I could take £10 off, that's gonna

be much more appealing to people.

But the reality is it won't make much difference.

it's just that you will be able to sell it with more confidence.

But I always just think the lower the price, the more I've got to sell.

So I'm like, if I can go a higher price, if I could increase my price by 50%,

that means I have to sell 50% less spaces which for me is really attractive.

Yeah And it's so true And as a buyer And this might just be cause I'm not the best

at being frugal As a buyer I'm like 179 and 199 they're the same number to me

Yeah, agreed

249 and 299 they're the same number for me And

I think that scales if someone can afford 2400 they can probably afford 2700 Those

sorts of price differences aren't the type of price differences that are affecting

my buying decision Yes it's gonna affect my buying decision if something's 30000

pounds versus 5000 pounds That's a big enough gulf for me to think Okay price

is a consideration here But I think often and again myself included I'm thinking

like Oh maybe it should be this price instead of this price And I'm talking

in really small numbers And I think as purchasers and I've worked with enough

purchasers in the businesses I've worked in to know most people are not

thinking of the difference of 10 pound or 100 pounds even They're thinking in

bigger number differences So it's just hard to coach yourself of that when

you're working on your own isn't it When it's just me myself and I in my office

Yeah

the price

Lower the price

on my shoulder saying You need to lower the price Lower the price

And I'm like Okay fine It's free

It's free.

It's fine.

Come on in.

So the way that I did it, 'cause I had a massive issue with pricing.

obviously, all, it all stems from yeah, fear and self-confidence

and, am I actually gonna deliver.

The more I charge, the more responsibility I felt for people's outcomes, and having

to separate myself from clients' outcomes has been a massive journey for me

'Cause I have high-ticket offers.

I don't really have any low-ticket offers.

so for example, , to come in outrageous is, at the normal level, 'cause

there's a VIP level as well, the normal level is like 4,750 for six months.

and my one-to-one is 12K, , plus VAT, for six months.

I've got a few questions there actually One is did you stop doing

low ticket because of that bloom that was too much not worth my time

didn't work out for my business And then also Did you have to train

yourself to come up with those numbers

Oh, like massively.

And so Bloom I stopped.

It was a really good lesson for me in, lower ticket.

it wasn't even lower ticket.

I didn't feel like it was low ticket at the time.

But, in terms of it linking to my time, and it being like, "Okay, If

I am actually gonna value my time, I have to work out, , how much this is."

So I still, after Bloom, I launched the Audience Builder course, which

was, 197, I think, when it came out.

So that was relatively low, I had a monthly call.

It was none of my time, So I was like, "Okay, that I feel comfortable

with." but then after that, I, then I launched the Mastermind, and then

the Mini Mind, and then Superfan Sprint, and then Outrageous, and all

of them have been higher ticket offers.

Yeah

and, the Superfan Sprint was 1,500, but that was for eight weeks.

So the way that I did it, I work with a mindset coach, but I also, I've

worked with coaches on this a lot, and it really is, for me anyway, I think

you have to feel safe in the price.

I don't think I could have gone from, £100 a month in Bloom to doing my Mastermind,

which was, , something, like, when I launched it, it was, like, 1,200 a month.

I couldn't have done that.

I had to, what's the word?

immersion therapy.

So basically, every time I launch… Actually, it was within

Bloom that I started doing this.

, I was enrolling every month, so every month I'd enroll new people, and

every month I nudged the price up.

and so every month I'd put it up by, sometimes it was, like, £30, then

it was, like, £50, and it just… But, and over time, I just kept

nudging it until I got to the price that I knew I wanted to get to.

I didn't feel bad about putting the price up each month from,

a client perspective because I already knew it was worth way more.

I knew it should have been, let's just say 1,500.

But, the people who got in early got it for, 900, then the next

people got it for 1,000, then the next people got it for 1,100.

It always should have been 1,500,

that's a good way of looking at it really because I think when I have thought

about putting the prices up on things I'm always feeling bad for the people

who are paying more than the people that paid less But what your sort of

position is actually like anyone who's getting it under this is in the lucky

collective they're lucky, they've had a steal they've got it at a bargain price

the value is this and I think maybe that could be a piece of work that I could

do of like what actually do I perceive the value to be of my group program and

now it's live Because sometimes as well like you say with that first one you're

like Well this is what it's gonna look like I think this is what it's gonna

feel like But until you actually have got people in it who are telling you

whether it's working or not I think it's hard to measure am I certain it's gonna

deliver what I think it's gonna deliver

so that's really interesting to think about the offer in that way

Yeah

I think the other thing as well is that I have never been scared to change offers.

and obviously within the contract, and I do always have really good contracts.

I get my contracts through Lucy Legal, by the way, and I will put her link in the

show notes 'cause they're really good.

So when you come in, there will be contractually a list of things that I

will deliver, and I will always deliver those for that person who comes in.

But I'm not scared to change it for future people coming in or

adapt the program, and change it.

All of my programs are built with kind of renewals in mind because I

love working with clients longer term.

And so at that point where they then get renewals, at that point is like a

renegotiation almost of the contract.

So it's like, "If you wanna stay, this is now the new offer." And I'm

not talking about, mega changes, And some of them massively benefit the

clients and some of them are shifts away from, what we started with.

Generally, because they're not using it, , because it's not

they actually need.

Because, you think, "Oh yeah, they need this every single week." when

we started working together, you were doing, a monthly trends video, which

was super good and really useful, but, hardly anyone got the time to watch

it because it just was never, top of to-do list thing that felt urgent.

And so it was like, we're gonna take that away because it's just a waste

of everybody's time and energy.

However, now, originally you started doing fortnightly, copy,

reviews, and now you do them weekly.

That's a shift.

So I think you've gotta take a view of evolving the program over time, and I

think that is, if we're talking about why is my group program not growing, sometimes

people let programs go quite stagnant.

They're too scared to change things.

They're too scared they think, oh, the original lot will

be upset and, they might be.

and sometimes it's like maybe you've outgrown them.

Maybe they need to leave the offer.

maybe this offer isn't for them anymore.

And I think it can be really hard to, as you're evolving a program, to

evolve the clients with it as well

That's so good And so you said there were three kind of pillars so that's

Ja

offer was like pillar one

So offer's the first one.

Then the second one is, I guess we've touched on it, is refilling your audience.

So

Yes

it, especially with high volume offers, if you want a lot of people in your

offer and you wanna refill it relatively consistently, then you need to be

bringing new people into your world all the time, and that's obviously where

the whole Superfans ad system works.

We need to bring the right people in, and we need to work, just, yeah, the

volume really of just reaching people.

I mean there is three ways always to do that, buy, build or borrow.

So you can buy them through ads

Ooh

essent- do you like that?

Yeah?

Yeah

so you've got, you can buy them, which is like ads essentially.

you can borrow them, which is doing, masterclasses in other people's groups,

going on other people's podcasts.

Speaking on stage, anything that gets you in front of other people's audiences,

so you're borrowing their audience.

or build, which is building your own audience.

So organically

social

Exactly, yeah.

And generally , in Outrageous we focus on buy and build.

I don't tend to focus a huge amount on borrow.

but yeah, those are the three core ways you can grow your audience.

And a lot of people just sit and build.

So they just think, "I just have to build my own audience. I have to, do

what it takes to just grow and grow."

And I would say you need to be using at least two out of the three of those,

rather than just relying on your own.

and then the last pillar is selling.

and I think this is where I guess last week we talked a lot about

September launches and are we launching, are we not launching?

What does launching actually mean?

are we doing evergreen?

, There's this real do we hate launches, do we love launches?

I generally, where I get to with most of my clients, is how can

we take like the nervous system activation away from launching?

, How can we do something that feels a little bit like it's on repeat, it's

doesn't activate our nervous system, it isn't a huge amount of time and energy.

We're not just putting all our eggs in the September basket and the January

basket, and then feeling really panicky if it doesn't go to plan.

most of my clients run regular workshops.

They basically have baked into their month, things that will allow them to

connect with clients, whether that's mini offers, podcasts, workshops,

in-person days, like whatever it is, whatever works for them.

How can we consistently bring people into our world through the

ad system, and then nurture them and give them opportunities to buy?

Because I think so often people will say, "Oh, I've used ads, and I grew my

email list, and I got loads of people on my email list, but none of them

have bought." And I'll say "Oh, okay.

what , what have you done?

what, how have you sold to them?" They're like, I sent them

an email sequence." It's yeah,

Isn't that

hit… "Yeah, exactly. I sent them seven emails, and I send a weekly newsletter,

and I'm on Instagram, so I don't know why they're not buying." And I think,

we've talked about this before, in , this day and age, People need more than that.

they need to connect with you, There's so much choice out there.

There's so many different programs.

There's so many different people.

I do think as well, there is an issue with, specificity for a lot of people.

If your group program's not growing, I would really encourage you to

look at is it specific enough?

Because when you're selling, that's when you'll really know, am I bringing the

right people for this specific thing?

I've been looking to work with someone on, my nutrition.

I just, I feel really bloated, and I just feel really sluggish, and I know

it's because I'm not eating right.

it's really not rocket science.

And I've been looking at people on Instagram, and I just, you

just haven't quite found anyone that's, really activated me.

And then it's like, it's general nutrition.

And some of them say they work with people with ADHD.

And I just, I don't know, I just haven't really felt it.

And then I came across someone this morning, and I watched one of her

videos, and I was like, "Yes, this is it. This is her." She just got it.

She talked very specifically about nutrition for people with ADHD, and

everything she was talking about, I was like, "Oh my God, that's me. Oh my God,

that's me." And it was just so good, and she could have had, a general nutrition

program for people who feel, , tired and bloated, which are exactly my symptoms.

But because she was like, "It's for, ADHD women she said, "I bet what you

do is you hear that you need to improve this one thing, and so you eat the same

food for 12 days in a row thinking that you're gonna sort it out, and then it

doesn't sort it out, so you give up." And I was like, Yes." looking at my kiwi

obsession that I had, eating two kiwis a day to see if that was gonna help.

Funny though isn't it I saw an amazing social media post this week

It's a social media person she was basically saying the 10 sort of

businesses she would want to be successful on social media right now

Yeah

the overarching theme for one of them was finances but she was like But not

finance advice finance advice for people who are sitting with 50000 debt or more

it would be applying for mortgages as business owners who are sole traders

And then she gave all these different examples of loads of them like people in

the fitness industry people in copyright and whatever it was But it was so

specific that then when you were thinking about your messaging and your hooks it

was really easy to talk to someone and writing a landing page and some emails

for as a oneoff project recently and she's done such a good job of nailing

exactly who the ideal client is Cause it's like okay they're perimenopausal

Yeah

are this they are that And it's so specific that it'll repel the wrong

people but the right people will have the response you did which is Oh my God yes

My God.

Yeah

me give you my money because I feel completely understood

Yeah.

And I think that the thing that people get scared about is, if

I go that niche, I don't know that there's that many people in

my audience that are gonna buy that.

And I think that's where it's like, okay, but that's where

you need to grow your audience.

get really specific with your offer.

So it's okay, what does this offer look like for ADHD women who are, , bloated

and tired and keep eating the same foods?

Bring them in with ads, with a lead magnet.

So she has, a simple ADHD, , food, She didn't call it a food planner.

She called it something else that really appealed to me, and I was

like, "Yes, I want that, thank you very much." and then, make the offer.

actually, have a podcast that's about nutrition for ADHD women.

do, online master classes.

I'd go to one.

I'd, do a paid master class.

Do you know what I mean?

I'm not quite at the point where I'm gonna book a call with her

yet, but I'm probably not far off.

even I, with Outrageous, struggle with this.

and like you say, I know it, and it's really hard because in Outrageous,

the people that get the best results already have a group program.

they've already done the thing that you talked about.

they've already pushed themselves through it.

They've done the tech bit.

They've got the people in.

They've proven the concept.

, And , it's just not growing in the way that they want it to grow.

And they are, committed, and they want it to happen.

and yet, I have a lot of people in my audience who don't have a group

program yet, and I find it so hard to not take that into consideration

when I'm looking at Outrageous.

and I go round in circles, should I let them in?

And should I have, an early section that, helps them create the offer?

Should I create a separate offer that they can, do but , in all honesty, Doing that

first bit, , that isn't my zone of genius.

That isn't what lights me up.

And so I have to

Nein

try and stick in my lane.

I love… Obsessed is about offer ecosystem.

I love offer ecosystem work.

I love talking about, , how can we scale, how can we bring… let's

just talk about this nutritionist.

what is that low-ticket offer that I…

A high- I'm a high-ticket buyer.

I will buy high ticket, , without much c- without much thought.

I'm trying to put more thought into it.

I, but I do probably want something from her first.

, whether it's a masterclass, If she did some sort of, 10-day reset, a couple

of hundred quid, definitely buy that.

because I'm interested, I'm there, but I just want, I want a little taster.

And I think, that for me, that's what Obsessed is gonna be.

It's like for people who want to work with me, who have a group offer, who

want to grow, but are just at that point of, like, "Well, four and a half

K's a lot of fucking money, Sophie.

So come in for a week and

got

show me what you've got." Yeah.

Yeah

but yeah, it's hard and I teach it, and it's hard

Yeah it is And I think as well there's so much value in having the support

to help you make hard decisions

Yeah

one of the things that just I know and you're a highticket

buyer I am not a highticket buyer

No, no

I'm tight when it comes to my business I really am I'm like that could be a

holiday that could be And it's not true because by the time I've actually taken

out of my business and paid myself it it's halved if I'm lucky But I think

when you're working on your own and

you're in this your own little bubble and you're trying to be inspired by the

people around you but ultimately you've gotta make these tough decisions on your

own that's really hard to find the bottle I'm a pretty ballsy person I have built

my own business from fresh air yet when it comes to some of those big decisions

I find them really hard to make And so I would've made my life a lot easier if

I hada started with something more high ticket I bottled it essentially And so I'm

still really proud and in love with the product that I've created and I think it's

an amazing thing and I'm gonna keep using it because I love it and clients love

it And I think it has got the potential to be scaled but it is hard I think it's

really easy when you're looking online and God you've got people doing these

incredible organic launches and making all this money And then you're sitting

at home and you're like I want that but It's hard to make those big bold sort of

amazing decisions and be strategic at the same time and actually do the doing of

Shit I've gotta write a sales page I've gotta write an email sequence I've gotta

do the social post By the time you've done all that to then start thinking

strategically about things is really hard And so just share that because I

think there's so much online that makes us feel like what we should be doing and

this is what we should be able to achieve But the reality of it's quite different

and I think being able to access support that allows you to I don't know be like

Is this the right thing to do what would you do in your wealth of experience.

I wrote down in my morning pages this morning when I was journaling I just

want someone to tell me should do this

Yeah.

That's what

I think that is so much of being outrageous, but also for me, I'm

in a mastermind, and it's just really easy to, yeah, second-guess

yourself, get distracted, talk yourself out of something.

so we have office hours every week with me so people can submit questions.

And , so often , someone will- have had a spiral, especially at this time of

year, they're coming into September, maybe the engagements feels like it's

dropped off, people aren't joining the wait list as much as they want or

whatever it is, it just doesn't feel like it's, is moving in the right direction.

And they'll have had a chat with Claude or ChatGPT, and they'll come into

office hours and be like, I had this spiral at like midnight last night and

this is what I think I should do and I think I should like change the plan.

I need to add in an early bird, and, I think maybe I need to add

in one-to-ones to the offer."

And there'll be all of these things that are overall, strategically

they're not terrible ideas.

but then they're like, do you think this is okay?

what would you do?" And nine times out of 10 I'll go back to

them and be like, " Okay, do you think the offer needs one-to-ones?

, Do you think people are not signing up to the wait list because there isn't

one-to-ones in the offer?" I think it's just so helpful to have someone

help you unpick that because it's so easy to go off down a path and just

be like, "Yeah, that's what I need.

I just need to add in one-to-ones." "Thanks, Claude.

That's really helpful.

that's really strategic." And then it's actually, why aren't people

joining the wait list if that's the problem that we're spiraling on here?

And often if you look back and it's like, okay, how many times have you posted about

the wait list on your stories this week?

"Oh, I definitely did it on Monday." It's like, yeah, like people are busy.

it's summer.

, If you really want people joining your wait list, you need to

post about it every day, babe.

go and do that and see if you've still got a wait list problem.

And then rather than looking at structural things like changing the offer and

adding a new offer or adding a bonus or adding another level, first off, so

often it's just the smaller things, and you just need to be reminded of that.

Me too, like myself included

Yeah and often you know it but it's just holding your nerve And on a solo

basis is tricky I know if I hadn't have been talking about the fact that I'm

gonna do another open doors for joining the Bloody Good Story Club if I hadn't

have spoken publicly about it on this and on my socials I would be canning it

Yeah, you've got too much.

It's just too much

I'm just like Do you know what Not now Not

Yeah

I haven't thought it through I haven't done the things I said I was gonna

do I was gonna run ads I haven't been running ads So I would just I know that

the narrative in my brain is like maybe just give me a bit more time Maybe

January Yeah.

I just know that's what I'd be doing and I speak to so many other people

who are in the same predicament

Actually I was chatting with one of your onetoone clients

And I'd put up an Instagram story where I was just like Fucking hell

guys I'm really struggling My brain

is like Girl maybe you should open a bookshop

you need to do that I don't know if you've seen it online It's called

Yeah.

Chapter and this girl's got this little tiny pink truck

Oh, nice.

she just goes around She's driving this super cute book truck called

The Wandering Chapter and she goes to little festivals and she does

popups And I was like Oh my God

I just want to do that.

Yeah and I'm like Maybe oh my God maybe I should just do that And I'm like trying

to knock my brain back into shape to be like No you're just being distracted

by the things that you are seeing

Yeah

so anyway I put this on my stories and one of your onetoone clients was like Oh

my God hard relate And then was like I so need Sophie back from holiday She's

like I just need her to knock me into shape and just be like No remember we're

doing this Remember this is the plan And it's so true is that having that I told

you didn't I I tried and have massively failed with my Claude coach It's so shit

And I'm sure there are good ones out there but what I've done is not good

Yeah.

I think the trouble is that Claude can be, , super helpful.

So it's like, "Oh yeah, I can come up with a million ideas for you. you

could do this, and you could do this, and try this." and the trouble is, is

that often you don't need more ideas.

often you actually need, to just double down

And , I honestly think that's probably one of, the har- especially as someone

with ADHD, one of the hardest lessons I've had to learn in business is

that, doubling down and just keep moving with the same thing, tweaking,

optimizing, tweaking, optimizing.

Because, my default is if, something doesn't work, then I'll

just can it and do something else.

I love new things.

and ultimately that just isn't the way that you grow and scale with a

business that feels easy, because you're just always testing something new.

You're never, refining what actually works

Yeah And that's the thing, isn't it?

Shiny object syndrome

Yeah

I mean, , looking at a pink bus and thinking, "Maybe I should have a

pink…" I've just seen something else and thought, "Oh, cool."

Ja

actually, what I want and what I continue to tell myself I want every time I'm

writing goals or journaling or whatever it

is spaciousness, reoccurring income, a bigger sense of financial security.

I know that you can never get financial security 100%, but certainly

more of a sense of me feeling like I've got some autonomy and

control over my earning capacity.

I was looking back through my journal today, and like every single time I

write, that's what I write, and yet I find myself constantly distracted by

things that are nothing to do with that.

And it's because

Yeah.

exciting.

No

it's not "Oh, I don't have to come up with a new name for

something." I love naming things.

I wanna come up with a new name for something.

I wanna come up with some new ideas, maybe spend some money on some new branding.

is all like dopamine hit ahoy for me.

And actually, what I do need to do is just like, "You said you're gonna do it.

You want to do it.

You know that it aligns with your goals.

Stop trying to give yourself a cheap dopamine hit by doing something new."

Yeah.

When I was … It was Bloom that I was doing, and I did the first, I think

I did the first two launches of it.

and then I was like, "Oh, it doesn't feel like it's growing as fast

as I want. I'm not sure, it feels like I'm doing a lot of work."

'Cause I was creating the whole curriculum as I went as well.

So I was, like, creating the curriculum, supporting clients, trying

to get new clients in every month.

It just felt so much.

And I went on a call with my coach at the time, and I was like,

" Oh, do you know what?

I'm just not sure it's right.

what I'm thinking is, basically, it was like another offer, … an earlier offer,

or it was like, "I'm just gonna maybe stop this and do, a different offer.

I think maybe I need to reposition this way." and she just looked at me, and she

was like, " What if you spent the time that you could spend on a new offer,

which you're very willing to give up, instead of spending it on that, on the

new offer, what if you spent all that time on improving the current offer

and marketing it?" and you're like,

Ooh,

"Brutal." Yeah.

She she was a brilliant coach, but it was, , probably the first time And I'd

worked with a lot of coaches up until that point, had really challenged , my shiny

object syndrome really directly and , she wasn't telling me like, "No, you can't."

But she was just like, "What if there is an alternative here, and you actually

dig into one thing and actually commit to it, and not just pivot off to something

else?" And She's a brilliant coach.

She also was the one that said to me, just before I was launching Bloom.

I had this summer, and I was really lost with the business.

I just didn't know what I was doing.

I felt really lost.

It was really hard, and I applied for a corporate job.

and I got through to the final two with EasyJet with my, airline experience.

It was a really great job.

I got down to the final two, and I didn't get it.

And it's like one of those like sliding doors moments

yeah.

it could've been Yeah.

So anyway, I didn't get it, and I remember having a call with her and

just being like, "I didn't get it, and now I don't know what to do."

Because in my head, I'd got it, and I was was running down everything

and I just, I don't know what to do.

And we were talking about my confidence basically.

I was like, "I don't know if I have the confidence to launch Bloom again.

I'm just-- I feel it's so hard." and she said, "You don't have to have

the confidence to launch Bloom again.

You borrow my confidence until you find yours." And she was like,

"I have total confidence in you.

You will absolutely be able to do this." And that for me

is the ultimate, in coaching

because , it's really hard to put on a sales page like, "Yeah, I'll be

there to be your cheerleader." "I'll be there when it gets hard." Because

the reality is, it will be hard.

, When you work with people for six months, a year, there are gonna be times when

there's personal stuff going on, when a launch doesn't go to plan, when you get

a client in that's really fucking hard work, and you think, "Is this really

worth it?" "Do I really wanna carry on with this?" And I think, know, for

me anyway, holding a group space and , working with people and being a coach

is about, holding them through that.

Yeah, there's the strategy, and there's the information, and

there's all the stuff that helps them, smooth out some of the bumps.

But ultimately, I just think it's about finding people who get you, get your

values, and that you can work together in a way where they can be really direct and

say to you, maybe let's on a tangent here.

I'm not just gonna say yes because you've said you want it and you're the client,"

Yeah

are there to be like, "You have totally got this.

I have full confidence in you, and I am here, cheering you on."

And isn't that so nice?

I think there's such an absence of praise in adult life,

Yeah

especially when you're in corporate or, working in industry or whatever,

there are normally, performance cycles that allow you to get that feedback.

Of, , how you're doing, or you've got, targets

That someone else has set you that prove that you're doing a good job.

if I think about my time in education, you were assessed all the time.

And so you could be wearing that badge of, like, "I'm a

consistently outstanding teacher.

Ofsted told me I was outstanding.

My class performed better than everybody else's had all this data, and you also

had loads of kids going, "Oh my God, Miss, you're so clever." And you'd be

like, "Oh, my God, stop it." Yes, love it.

"Yes,

Great.

Whereas in the online business space there is, an absence of praise.

It's hard to get testimonials.

It's hard to have people say, " you're so good at that."

Yeah

I'm always, so keen to tell people, even in, my social media engagement, I'm

always trying to be like, "I loved this.

This was amazing." "I really appreciate this and this." Because

If we're not careful, we can be just completely devoid of praise.

And if you're somebody who's motivated by praise, which I so am.

. My son plays for two football teams, and I started baking for, the first one because

my husband's the coach, and I thought, "Actually, that's a nice thing I can do."

The kids got then so into it that I was like, I can't stop,"

because they're, like, running over to me asking what I've baked.

so then he started playing for another team.

I felt bad for those kids.

." . And Everyone said, "Oh, do you love baking?"

And I was like, "No. No, not really."

no

no, I've grown to love it a little bit, but, it's a hassle.

And then my sister was like, "Why do you do it then?" And

I was like, "Do you know what?

I think it's the praise."

Yeah

it's the praise.

I think it's everyone going, "Oh, my God, this is so nice.

This is so delicious.

You're so good to us." And I think because there's probably, an absence of that in

my day-to-day work life now, I've, found a channel to seek it out. but , I raised

that because how powerful it was for your coach at that time to say to you,

why are you doubting yourself? you can totally do this." and likewise, even in

the call when you said to me, " Actually, I don't think you've got that problem.

You're really good at positioning yourself as an expert." I was like

gonna record that as a little soundbite.

Yeah

Put it into my morning notes.

to myself

Yeah, make it into a cushion.

and so yeah, I think, like you say, it's hard to put on a sales page, and when

people are thinking about their group offers, we wanna say that sort of thing,

but it doesn't feel that meaningful.

But in reality, in practice, it is so meaningful for people, I think

Yeah, I agree.

And I think I try and get it in a lot of ways.

In my testimonials and in feedback that I get, I've got like a whole bank of things

, which I try and get on sales pages.

Although they're not like the hard ones.

They're not "I tripled my money," or, "I made my money back in the first day."

. It's the ones that say, "Sophie is just so fun to work with," or "Sophie makes

things so easy to understand," or, "I feel so much more - confident when I go into

Ads Manager now." to me, obviously I want people to get results, don't get me wrong.

But I think when you're looking at working with someone, there's results

that feel good, and then there's results by any means necessary.

And I

Yeah

my clients to know that I'm here for the results that feel good.

I've earned 10K and burnt out, and I've earned 5K and felt really happy.

So

, It can't ever just be about the money.

It has to be how it feels as well.

Yeah, definitely.

And I think when you're building these things, as a solo business owner

or, in collaboration with somebody, that part of it is so important.

the question we asked at the beginning is, should I care

if my group program isn't growing?

And you've given us some super useful things to think about.

So is the offer right?

Have you grown your audience, or how are you growing your audience?

And , how are you selling it?

Is there anything else that you would add in your expert seat?

'Cause this is really, your wheelhouse more than mine, for sure.

I honestly could talk about this stuff all day long.

honestly, it's like my favorite stuff to talk about.

I think, should you care that your group offer's not growing?

yes, if you want it to grow.

you've got to think about how you want it to grow.

Because if it's not growing, I would say the first thing to think about is,

you probably know why it's not working.

and I think really you've got to decide, do you want to do

something about that or not?

And it's fine if it's not.

it's fine to

Yeah

down and be like, "Do you know what?

I'm actually gonna go back to one-to-one."

In Obsessed, which I'm running in October, we go through, my superfan offer ecosystem

and, the first offer I will always ask people to create and make sure they

have in place, and I don't really like working with people if they don't have

this in place, is their safety offer.

and it's an offer that brings in some foundational revenue.

Because if you are trying to grow a group program and you don't have any

foundational revenue, whether it's, one-to-one, done for you, another job,

I don't really care what it is, but I

that you can pay your mortgage each month and that you are not relying on this

next launch to, like, feed yourself.

because

But ultimately,

Yeah

and layer a group program on and it doesn't work and it doesn't feel good,

and you're like, "Do you know what?

I think I might just go back to one-to-one.

, Do it if that's what feels right.

But if you want to grow it, you've got to commit to it.

you've got to make some changes if it's not growing

I found that really useful.

I often think to myself, isn't it amazing when I speak to so many of, the people

that I work with, and I'm just like, "God, you're just creating a little empire."

not even a little empire.

I say little.

No, you're just creating an empire,

Yeah.

in your slippers . And I just love hearing about what people are up

to and, how they're doing things.

So yeah, if there's anybody listening who is, working on

their group program or wants to share about it, we'd love to know.

We'd love to hear about what it is you're up to.

Maybe message Sophie though.

She's probably gonna give you more insight

Yeah

me.

I'll be like, "Yeah, me too, hon."

Yeah, me too.

Send Ruthie the praise for this episode,

Yeah.

me any

Yeah, please do.

Yeah?

I bloody love it.

Amazing.

we will see you next Tuesday