Shownotes
What if your decisions aren’t wrong… just made from the wrong state? In this episode of Soul Sparks on Healthy Mind By Avik™, host Nazish sits with Debra Bowers to explore the quiet power of emotional regulation.
This conversation is for leaders, creators, and anyone feeling overwhelmed by constant decisions. You’ll walk away understanding how meditation, self-awareness, and honest introspection can shift not just your choices—but how you experience your life and lead others.
About the Guest:
Debra Bowers is the founder of Hexagon Media, host of Deals with Heels, and a leadership, marketing, and sales culture strategist focused on growth from within.
Episode Chapter:
00:00 Why your state shapes every decision
02:16 A turning point through grief and introspection
07:29 Meditation as emotional reset
11:40 Emotion vs logic in leadership
16:19 When decisions come from fear
18:43 Finding your own way to meditate
24:15 Starting small with stillness
Key Takeaways:
- Your emotional state silently drives your decisions
- Awareness creates space between reaction and response
- Meditation clears mental clutter, not thoughts entirely
- Leaders must feel, not suppress, emotion to build trust
- Small daily stillness builds long-term emotional stability
How to Connect With the Guest:
Podcast: Deals with Heels
Platform: LinkedIn
Resource: Human Sales Playbook
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Transcripts
00:00:00 Nazish: Every decision you have made was made from a state. A state of fear, a state of clarity, a state of overwhelm. A state of peace. Most of us never stop to ask which state we are in. We just decide. And then we wonder why things didn't go the way we hoped. What if the most powerful leadership skill isn't a strategy at all? What if it is the ability to know what's happening inside you before you know to act? So that is what tonight is about.
00:00:35 Nazish: Welcome to Soul Sparks, a part of the Healthy Mind by Awake Network. I am your host, And this is a space where we hold the small, quiet truth that changed everything. Tonight's guest is Deborah Brouwers, founder of Hexagon Media, host of the long running podcast deals with heels, leadership, marketing and a sales culture strategist who has spent decades helping people building businesses and executive build from growth from the inside out. Deborah knows what it takes to rebuild yourself from the ground up. She has done it, and tonight she is here to talk about something that sits at heart of all of it meditation, mindset, emotional regulation, and how it shapes the decision we make every single day. Deborah, it's truly a gift to have you here.
00:01:27 Debra Bowers: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy to have this conversation with you.
00:01:32 Nazish: Wonderful. So before we go ahead, dear listeners, some statements reflect personal belief and experiences and are presented as individual views, not medical advice. So listeners should consult qualified professionals for medical conditions.
00:01:50 Nazish: Yeah. So, Deborah, I want to ask you somewhere personal today. Tell me if there was a moment in your life when you first understood what it meant to truly regulate yourself before making a decision? Not a technique, not something you read, but a moment when you felt the difference in your own body reacting and responding.
00:02:16 Debra Bowers: Well, that's pretty easy because it took a long time for me to reach a state of emotional regulation. And I kind of I felt a little bit of it when I first started meditating about fifteen years ago, but it wasn't complete. And the when I first felt it for myself was just about four years ago and I had been meditating and I had come to a place in my life where I was alone, and all of the things that used to fill me up were gone. I was in a really deep place of grief. Uh, I had lost my marriage of twenty years. My my kids had all left the nest, and then my mother had passed away. And all of that left this big empty space inside of me that needed to be filled up. And that space, we just grieve it so heavily. And so I started the process of finding myself again, turning my life around. And because I didn't want to feel that way anymore, I felt very emotional about everything that was happening about around me. I would snap at people, I was irritable, I was upset and felt pretty much like a victim of my Circumstances, and so I. The one thing that made me take a pause was I was listening to a lecture from Sadhguru, and he was talking about the only power we really have in our life is over our own thoughts, that people can force us to take certain actions, but they can't force us to think a specific way about it. And our thoughts control our emotions. And so he said, no matter what happens around me, no matter what kind of chaos is happening, this is me. This is my way. And I'm not giving that power away to anyone. And I thought to myself in that moment, that's exactly how I want to feel. I don't want to keep walking around, reacting emotionally to things that often didn't have anything to do with me And so I sat on a journey to figure that out. And it didn't take a long time because I had already been meditating and I'd already been practicing. And I remember very vividly, I someone that I care about deeply had posted something online about herself and her life. And I had a weird emotional reaction to it and thought it was it was not pleasant, it was negative and I, I stopped and took pause and said, okay, wait a minute. You love this person. You care about her. You want her to do well in life just as well as you want yourself to. That's how important she is to you. So why are you really feeling this way? Because it doesn't have anything to do with her or what she posted about. and that ability to look inward in myself and try to figure it out. It. It deflated that moment of negative emotion that I was having, just even trying to consider and admitting to myself that this person hasn't done anything to me. And I love this person. And so what's happening with this feeling is coming from within myself. And that moment changed everything. Because then I realized, oh wow, I really am in control. And if I am able to have introspection and ask the questions of myself, instead of focusing on someone else's behavior, actions, or words. That was incredibly powerful. And I was able to control that emotion and move forward in my day without another thought about it. And I didn't have a specific technique. I didn't have any buddy, teach me something specific to do in that moment. Uh. Sadhguru's lecture made me realize how I wanted to feel, and then being able to ask myself those questions like why this is coming from you and understanding it was coming from me, gave me a power that I had never felt.
00:07:13 Nazish: That is an absolutely beautiful perspective. And thank you so much for sharing that with us. You know, it brings so much clarity to this conversation and the way you talk about meditation, I feel like it is going to resonate with a lot of our listeners tonight.
00:07:29 Debra Bowers: Meditation is so important. And like all things, you can get off of the habit, right? So I had kind of gotten away from my daily practice over the last. Oh, it had been just a few months. It's hard for me in the winter. Sometimes I love to meditate outside the most, and when winter comes and I can't get out in the sunshine and put my bare feet in the earth for a long amount of time, then I was kind of off my game, I guess is a good way to put it, and I could feel the difference. And I took note of it and I started back my daily meditation practice. The easiest way for me is to just do it as soon as I wake up in the morning. And since I was reconnecting with my daily practice, that's how I started again. And I can tell you, it did not take very long at all for me to feel that sense of calm again, and to understand again how important it is and the feeling of being in somewhat control of my emotional state was it's like every time I feel it, I'm like, now it's like an old friend I'm welcoming back, right? I'm like, oh yeah, here it is. This is what it feels like to be in control of my emotions again. And so I, all of us, you know, it's like exercise. You get out of the habit of doing it, something happens and you're out of your daily routine. But it was a great reminder to me of what it feels like when you first have it again. And it really is as simple as spending time by yourself without any other distractions. And even more than just a distraction, it's we, we absorb, we ingest so much media, videos, social media, uh, Everything around us were constantly having to field all of this input in our minds, and it clogs everything up. Um, so I think that for people that don't meditate currently and often, I can hear you say it out in the world right now, uh, I can't meditate. I can't clear my mind. I can't do those things. And what I would encourage you to understand is that meditation doesn't come from a clear mind. Meditation is the process of clearing the clutter out of your mind, so that you can connect with yourself in a meaningful way. That's what it is for me. I don't know what the real definition is of it, but for me, that's what it is. So removing all the external stimulus, no screens, no music, no anything when you first start, and sitting by yourself and letting all of the stuff that those racing thoughts are because they haven't been heard. You've been pounding them down with input for all of this time. So let all of that clear and then you can start, um, and add music if that is calming to you. Or I like to the singing bowl meditations to specific frequencies. I love those and so I can have audio when I'm meditating now. But to start out, I think it's important to start just spending time alone without external stimulus, and you'll begin to hear your own thoughts and connect with yourself in a meaningful way. And if once you can do that, now, you can have that introspective conversation about why you're feeling a specific way in reaction to something that's happening in your world.
00:11:40 Nazish: Absolutely. I mean, that is something so true. And that is something that a lot of listeners are gonna take it to their heart today because that feels home like meditation about no screen, nothing that is so helpful. You know, so many people in leadership and business believe that emotion is the enemy of good decision, that you have to be rational, detached, analytical. But you have built a career studying human behavior and sales psychology. And I suspect you see it very differently. So what do most people get completely wrong about the role of emotion and decision making?
00:12:22 Debra Bowers: Well, I think you're right that leaders often get focused on the logic behind why we need to make a decision and all of that. It's not that that's not important, that intellectual work and figuring out what the right move is for your business is is important because you want to make rational, good economic decisions for your business. The problem is, is that when you only do that now, you're not honoring yourself. And, and we all have our own personal moral guide that we follow and often strategic, logical decisions that we spent a lot of time intellectually deciding that were necessary conflict with our own internal moral guide. And when we block that out and we don't talk about it or understand it, then look at that disservice we do to ourselves. When you bottle any of that up, you're just saving that for later. So one disconnecting all of the emotion out of a decision is very poor self-care for the leader. And when they do it and they understand how to impacts them personally and emotionally. And and it likely won't change the decision that's right for the business, because those decisions are made for lots of other reasons that don't involve emotion. But what it does change is how you interact with your team, how those decisions impact your team, and how your team responds to those decisions are all emotional. You can't expect people that work at a business that are part of the team to just accept the rational decisions that leadership made, and then feel nothing about it, because it doesn't happen that way. They are all going to feel something about it. And if you disconnected how you feel about it as a leader, they can feel that they it comes across as they don't care how I feel. Um, they didn't consider how the decision influences us. And you can tell that they don't because they're just being a jerk about it. So right now, you can't sell that decision to your people in a way that they accept and can move forward in a positive way towards growth for the company, because their emotions about the decision aren't being honored and they're not able to process it and they feel very disconnected from their leadership. So it's really important for a leader to emotionally regulate, yes, but still feel the emotions and acknowledge them and work through them and understand that this isn't the greatest. I don't feel great about this decision, but this is what's necessary for us to do and then connect with their team in an emotional, meaningful way. Now they can move forward as a team and sales are better. Conversations are easier. Trust is built easier. So it's really important that the leaders pay attention to how a decision feels, and let that factor into how you're going to make the decision and implement the decision.
00:15:55 Nazish: That sounds such an important thing to do. And that is going to that. That is something, you know, that what you are describing is something that I think many of us have lived without having the words for it. The decision that felt logical at the time, but was just really wearing a fear suit. And that recognition changes everything.
00:16:19 Debra Bowers: It definitely does. You know, when when you work somewhere and the and something happens, let's say companies where they've incorporated AI into their behind the scenes people, their payroll, their Accounting. All of those non-customer facing people and they lost a bunch of jobs and they announce it. And I have a friend who worked somewhere that this happened and he's in sales. So he he wasn't affected directly, but the leader that came and talked to them read off of the note cards and just told them what happened. There was no connection. There was no acknowledgement of the fear that that causes in, um, in a business. And when you don't do that now, they're all fearful if it's going to happen to them, they're not connected with the decision in a meaningful way. They're resistant to incorporate the new AI procedures into what they do because they feel salty about the fact that it's even there. So without that buy in, we all have this UGG feeling. And I think that I think you're right that the majority of businesses these days in leadership this these days are feeling that very thing and unable to really connect and understand it because they didn't buy into the decision and understand their own emotions about it, because often it didn't come from them. It came from even higher up. So they're having to live with it and understand it in a meaningful, emotional way for them to be able to connect. So it all starts at the top and how that feeds in.
00:18:12 Nazish: I completely I completely agree with that. So, you know, tell me something, uh, you know, if let's talk about meditation specifically, uh, if, if it still feels like that something you do not, you do on a yoga mat, not something that makes you a better leader or a sharper decision maker. So how did meditation enter your life and what did it actually do to the way you think and move through your days?
00:18:43 Debra Bowers: I really wanted to meditate. I had this feeling that it. It would make me better. I had a gut feeling that I wanted to do it. And my husband at the time, he was meditating and he had a very kind of elaborate thing that he did with incense and all of the things. And I was so interested in trying it. And every time I tried, I felt nauseated. It was weird. So I had this kind of resistance about it because no one wants to do something that's going to make them feel sick. And I met a spiritual guide at a like, like a fair that they were having. And I spoke to him and he told me, he said, well, the problem is, is that you don't need all that extra stuff for you to meditate. It's okay that he does that. The incense and his muse, all of the things that he does, helps him meditate. But you're walking into it thinking you need that too. And for you, it's like diving into the ocean when you can't swim, because it would it would put me in a deeper meditative state than I was really prepared for. And it made me nauseated. So I think the lesson is that you have to find your own way to connect with yourself. And there's lots of different ways to do it other than sitting on a yoga mat. Um, there's walking, meditation and walking in the quiet, walking in nature. Uh, sitting and thinking. Praying is a form of meditation. So all of those things when you find your own specific way that makes a difference. So when I removed all of the stuff that he was using for meditation, then I was able to do it. And I just started small and I started doing it right when I woke up. And I had a it's, it's been so long ago, it was a CD and I would play this, uh, guided meditation. It was about thirty minutes long. And it did not take long at all for me to really feel the effects. But it was it's not like you're like, oh, wow, now I'm super calm. It happens suddenly. And there was an area my husband at the time would have this messy table that was like, where all of his little stuff was his end table and it would just get messy and it, it would piss me off. I'll be honest. It made me so angry that he would leave food there. What? It's so, you know, and I got tired of cleaning it up. So then I would stop and it would just get this stuff piled on it. I'd been meditating about a month and I didn't care about it anymore. I just didn't care. It's not my mess, it's not my problem. And I didn't have any feelings at all about it anymore, so I didn't have to talk about it. I didn't have to analyze it. I didn't have to go to counseling to determine it. I didn't need him to do anything to make me feel detached from those emotions. It just happened. When I started meditating. And that's just a small thing. But when you're able to do that, because let me tell you, in a marriage, things can get really wound up tight. And I was able to just ignore it. It, it, it like it had this invisibility cloak. It just did not affect me emotionally anymore. That was such a big moment for me because I saw the potential of it. So now when you have things in your life that that happens with, it's not that I can go meditate and it calms everything down. It's that I don't need to anymore, that it provides me with emotional stability on an ongoing basis by basically doing nothing.
00:22:57 Nazish: That feels so much at home. I must agree. And you know, it is telling us that there is something so tender about that, that the idea, the restlessness in the mind isn't a barrier to meditation. It might be exactly the reason for it. The busy mind is the invitation, not an obstacle.
00:23:18 Debra Bowers: It is. It absolutely is. And I remember I at one point early in my meditation journey, I was I was using an app called sattva and it had a leader, I think his name was Sri. But he would say when I was meditating, if the thoughts come, let them come. I tell my coaching clients, when the thoughts come, let them come because they're going to they've been building up in there and they need to be heard and to get out. You don't have to focus on them, but just slowing down and letting them come out is so important. And now they're out and you don't have to hold them inside anymore. Holding them inside is what causes you to emotionally react to other things.
00:24:15 Nazish: Once you let those emotions out, once you feel what you're feeling, I mean, that is the real progress for anyone, but I believe it is easier said than done, and I hope this conversation helped my listeners today to go there and to let their emotions out, and to feel everything that they are supposed to feel.
00:24:39 Debra Bowers: And I don't want to some people take that and mean, well, I'm angry and I'm going to be pissed off and tell people about it. That's not what I mean. What I mean by that is when you spend time alone, you process those emotions without all of that reaction. Feeling them doesn't mean that you sit in meditation and feel angry. It just means they come out and you, they just get dealt with in meditation. So I would encourage your listeners to start small. I always start with five minutes a day. If you can do five minutes a day just in silence. And then about ten days in, I am willing to bet that you will have been sitting there fifteen minutes and you just didn't realize it was you were doing it for longer, because that's how good it feels once you. Once you get past the awkwardness of not having all of the screens, the habit of holding your phone in your hand, or the habit of having music in the background or whatever it is. Once you let go of that and you're able to actually do it, it's amazing how good it feels and how much more you want to do it.
00:26:00 Nazish: I completely agree with you, Deborah. That was such a beautiful reflection, and I'm pretty sure it is going to help a lot of my listeners tonight. And, you know, if there is one thing that I am going to take away from this conversation is that you cannot lead others well from a place you haven't visited in yourself. And the quieter you have become, the clearer Your choice become. Stillness is not the absence of strength. It is often where the strength begins.
00:26:31 Debra Bowers: Yes, I agree with that statement completely. That silent strength. They used to talk about that in, uh, for the United States, the Greatest Generation, the boomers and the generation before that, they had a quiet strength about them. And once we can get back to that boy, it's powerful.
00:26:53 Nazish: Yes. Absolutely true. So, Deborah, for my listeners who want to connect with you, learn more about your work and everything, how can they do so?
00:27:03 Debra Bowers: Well, I would love for you to check out my podcast deals with heals. It's available on all platforms. So likely where you're listening to this one. You can listen to mine as well. We talk a lot about entrepreneurism, leadership, and decision making on that show as well. And I have a free resource that's available. It's called the Human Sales Playbook, and it is a guide to help you sell with connection and build trust and have those conversations easier with other people without feeling like you're pressuring people so you can connect there. And then on LinkedIn is the best place really to find me. If you want to connect with me and me answer.
00:27:49 Nazish: Deborah, thank you so much for joining us in this conversation today for the honesty and the and for the wisdom that only comes from having walked through fire and chosen to soften rather than harden. And that is its own kind of teaching. Thank you so much for joining us today.
00:28:08 Debra Bowers: Thank you for having me. It's such a great conversation, as always.
00:28:13 Nazish: Absolutely. And dear listeners, whatever decision is waiting for you, I hope this conversation gave you permission to pause before you make it to breathe, to come back to yourself. I am Nazish and this has been soul sparks part of Healthy Mind by Awake Network. If this episode lit something in you, share it with someone who needs the light. Until next time. Be still, be true and be you.
