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Pastor Bob Thibodeau and T.S. Wright engage in a profound exploration of the intersection of faith and historical events, particularly focusing on the tumultuous period of the American Civil War. Within this episode, they elucidate how God’s intervention is evident through pivotal moments, especially as they discuss the issuance of the Emancipation Proclamation by President Abraham Lincoln following the bloody Battle of Antietam. This battle, described as the bloodiest single day in American history, serves as a backdrop for the discussion of divine providence, emphasizing that amidst chaos and conflict, God's plans often prevail.

The dialogue conveys not only historical facts but also theological reflections, as the hosts encourage listeners to connect these historical instances with their present-day faith. They assert that understanding the past allows for a richer context in which believers can appreciate the unfolding of God’s will. The episode serves as a reminder of the importance of faith in guiding moral choices and the significance of historical awareness in shaping contemporary beliefs and practices. As the conversation unfolds, listeners are invited to contemplate their own roles in the ongoing narrative of faith and community, particularly through mediums like podcasting that facilitate sharing of impactful messages.

Towards the conclusion, the podcast hints at upcoming discussions about the Church's evolution through various ages, suggesting a roadmap for understanding how these historical shifts have informed modern Christianity. This forward-looking perspective invites listeners to not only reflect on the past but also to actively engage in the future of their faith communities, reinforcing the notion that each individual has a role to play in the larger story of the Church's mission.

Mentioned in this episode:

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Welcome to the Kingdom Crossroads Podcast with Pastor Bob Thibodeau.

Pastor Bob conducts personal interviews with Christian influencers from around the globe, helping Christian authors, recording our artists, CEOs, entrepreneurs, non profit leaders, and yes pastors and ministry leaders to get the word out about what they are doing to impact the world with the gospel.

Our podcast has been rated in the top 1/2% of all podcasts in the world by ListenNotes.com so you know your message will be heard.

Now here is your host with today's interview, Pastor Bob Thibodeau.

Hello everyone everywhere.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau here.

Welcome to the Kingdom Crossroads podcast today.

We're so blessed that you're joining us.

And today is part two and the conclusion of a great interview that we've been doing with T.S.

wright as we're discussing the third age of the church.

Now if you missed any of part one of this portion of the interview, you need to go back and catch up because we covered some things that are just so interesting and I just don't have time to go over them all again.

But today, as we finished up yesterday, we are talking about historical examples where God intervenes.

And it's like I said yesterday at the conclusion of the interview, anytime you combine history and the Word of God, I am all in because I just love history.

I love the Word of God, and when I'm getting a chance to study both together, it's just awesome.

Anyway, let's jump back into the conclusion of this interview now with TS Righty.

He's given us some examples in history where God intervened and despite the odds, God won.

You know, I can give you another historical one is is during the Civil War there's really two instances and I've got several just during the Civil War itself, but two big ones.

Number one is that the Union army had pressed the Confederacy in the Overland Campaign, but they needed to put Richmond into a trap.

Well, General Grant takes one of the Largest forces up to that time in the history of the world.

And crosses the James river on pontoon boats and generally misses this.

I mean, he could have killed a lot of their soldiers out in the middle of the river crossing these pontoon bridges.

And they have no idea it happened until after it was done.

Yeah.

Amen.

So that's one another.

Is that to give you the understanding of the sin of slavery on this country?

Abraham Lincoln is going to issue the Emancipation Proclamation.

And it's a way to get the south back into the Union if they.

But he can't issue it without a victory.

Yep.

At the time the battle of Antietam right there in your neck of the woods happened.

And it will be the bloodiest, not even day, half a day in American history because in less than 12 hours we will have more casualties than in any other battle in one and a half a day ever in the United states history.

Yeah.

26,000 plus.

And they said the numbers may actually be higher.

Yeah.

And it's that battle that pushes the Confederate forces back to the south and allows him to issue the Emancipation Proclamation.

I find that ironic that the bloodiest day in American history happens on the day of the signing of the Constitution 85 years later.

And it also signifies the Emancipation Proclamation being released by Abraham Lincoln that will eventually lead to the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments.

Yeah.

And what's.

And what we're talking about, you know, was God's timing.

Exactly.

And it's so true.

And it took a lot of wrangling to get that done.

And they barely got it done from that point forward.

The Confederacy just completely disintegrated.

Yeah.

Amen.

And they were still holding on.

And when that happens, that was it.

And it's kind of finally God said, okay, now you can have it.

Now you can have the victory because you finally did what I wanted you to do a long time ago.

Yeah.

Amen.

You know, and remember, Lincoln had already survived an assassination attempt and the bullet went through his hat.

Exactly.

Wasn't time.

Yeah.

I mean, it is.

You know, these are snipers.

Okay.

And.

And here's what interesting will Happen we go back to the Third age of the Church.

That temple will not be rebuilt.

Nope.

It is stopped.

Yet.

And in 367, in Festal letter number 39, Athanasius will list the 27 writings that he considers sacred.

All right.

And then in 397, they will formally recognize that these 27 writings are the sacred writings that we now call the New Testament.

Amen.

And the temple is not allowed to be rebuilt.

And right.

Following after that, the New Testament becomes the thing.

Yeah.

We now understand what writings are sacred.

And it's what we follow today.

Yeah.

That is powerful, that those two events are really close together.

Oh, yeah.

Think about what would happen if they'd.

Have rebuilt the temple and the Jewish influence would have come back.

Exactly.

It wasn't time.

The Jewish influence is going to come back.

We know that.

Yeah.

It just wasn't time.

It was the time of the New Testament.

And right in that, I mean, in that same decade, we get what's going to be considered the new writings of the writings of the New Testament, those 27 sacred writings.

And Athanasius is going to put those out there in that festival letter.

That is a big deal.

And so we get, actually in 382, Pope Damascus, the first, and the Council of Rome confirmed those 27 writings that make up the New Testament.

The Council of Hippo canonized New Testament in 393, and then the Council of North Africa canonized it in 397.

And that really formalized it in 405.

Pope Innocent the First will ratify the writings as well.

And now what happens is these, the powers to be that are going to control the theology, that are going to control Christianity is now has officially become these councils, and there's lots of them.

You can go through and read about all these councils.

There was councils before this, but you'll get a lot of that.

I mean, we get, you know, we get things like the Apostles Creed, you know, and the Nicene Creed, all that in a council.

Nice scene.

You had that back in.

I think it was 323.

You can go back and look, but we'll see that.

And what's interesting is in 410, Rome will fall to the Visigoths.

The Roman Empire starts to die.

And around most scholars, most scholars say between 476 and 480, it had completely disintegrated.

And then what will end this third age of the Church?

And there's going to be more political ring and more councils stuff.

There's going to be more of these, not only popes, but these religious leaders I guess is the way to think of it.

And they're structuring that theology that will formalize the institution of the Church.

And then it needs one last thing to become the powerhouse.

It needs.

It needs a central base.

It needs a central power and an army to help unify it.

And they get that in the Byzantines.

And the Byzantines take.

They start the siege of Rome and they retake Rome.

They take Rome in 538.

The siege starts in 537.

About a year later in 538.

Matter of fact, it's March 537.

And then in March 538 they take it.

The Byzantine forces their army, they force the vidigies to.

And I apologize if I butcher these names, some of these names, but they basically attempting it.

Exactly.

The visit.

The Byzantines take Rome.

And now you have the power of the Holy Roman Church because they're right there with them.

And now they're in the center of Rome.

I mean the Vatican City is still there today.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

So that's the power of it.

And this happens in 538.

So this now marks the start of the rule of the Roman Church.

And that is the event that kicks off the next stage of the Church.

So think about it.

337 the baptism of Constantine and then he dies.

We now have a Roman Emperor that's been baptized in Christianity.

That is the, that is the final trigger to flip the Church and go.

Over the importance of that.

Because they consider the Roman Emperor God.

Exactly.

And what he's doing, it's just like committed himself.

It's almost like what Pharaoh would not do, which is why God punished him.

He would not admit that God was God.

And he, he made the Egyptians believe he was God.

But a guy that dies, I mean, come on.

Yeah.

But he didn't just acknowledge that the Jewish God was God.

He acknowledged Jesus Christ, who the Jews killed was God.

Exactly.

And now Constantine is surrendering to that.

Yeah.

And that is the key moment.

That is the trigger.

It starts with the Edict of Milan.

And there's like a 20 year period of that last hanging on of the second age of the Church.

And then the trigger event is him.

That happens right around three.

That's in 337.

And then this whole thing in 537 when they see Jerome, that is the flipping to the fourth age of the Church.

Because now the Holy Roman Church will become the, the Church.

It'll become an empire in itself.

And by the way, this is going to last a thousand years.

What's funny is when we.

There's going to be, there's going to be a couple of tr.

There's going to really be two or three trigger events when we talk on our next episode in that fourth edge of the church.

And you guys are going to love this because this fourth edge of the church is the most fun, is one of the most fun to talk about, to be honest with you.

This fourth age, there's going to be a couple of trigger events that really ignite and, and kind of, kind of cools that the power of that church.

And as it cools it, it's going to lead to some other events that'll eventually flip it to the fifth age of the church and, and the Holy Roman Church will become a dead church as a result.

Yeah, yeah, they really will.

And even the Protestant churches that will come out of that at first are kind of dead churches as well.

That's why the fifth age of the church is called the dead age of the church, because it really kind of was, it was, it was more of about a restructuring than it was about a movement.

It was just a restructuring of the institution of the church that had really become corrupt, extremely corrupt.

And so the fourth age is the church, Some people call it the tyrannical church because in some ways it is.

I mean, we're going to get things like the Crusades and all this stuff.

It's not pretty.

It's not a pretty picture.

Yeah.

And there are some really good things that come out of this age of the church, but there's some really bad things too.

And we know that.

I mean, you know, hey, I'm not.

And even Jesus, you know, people can sit here and say, well, well, that makes Christianity bad and all this.

I'm going to make an argument against that.

Jesus himself, if you read the books of Revelation, chapters 2 and 3, he admonishes five ages of the church.

Admonishes them.

He does not.

He doesn't praise them.

Right.

He praises certain people that do certain things in those ages.

But the basic age of those churches are not pretty.

Yeah.

And the reason is it's the same thing with every other man made religion out there that's not even attached to Christianity.

Anytime it becomes man made, it becomes about man and it becomes idolatry.

And when it becomes that, it becomes not of God and it, and it ends up ensuing in chaos, violence, just like in the days of Noah.

Amen.

Yeah.

That is so True.

Amen.

Amen.

Praise the Lord.

We are never to worship the church.

We are only to worship God.

Yeah, period.

There is nothing else.

There is no one else.

Jesus Christ is the body of Christ.

Exactly.

Church, you know, the body.

Yeah.

And there's.

The body is made up of different members.

You know, you can't have one denomination.

We'll call it, say we are the Church.

No, you're not.

I know.

No, those have received Christ.

That's the church.

Yeah, period.

There's.

I mean, I don't care what denomination you are.

None of that matters.

I mean, at the end of the day, there's not going to be denominational signs in heaven.

Nope.

All right, well, this group over here and this.

That's not going to happen.

I mean, every judge individually, if there.

Is, it'll be one of those, like, okay, all you believers this way.

The rest of you go that way.

Yeah, exactly.

I mean, that's not.

Yeah, it's not going to be this denominational thing or this group thing, all that stuff.

No, there's only.

There's only two groups, believers and non believers.

There's those that are listed in the book of life, and that's what the Bible says.

And there's those that are not.

Yeah, period.

You know, and sometimes I get into little discussions, I'll call it, with some pastors, you know, like, hey, you know, we're promoting this event or whatever it is.

Well, where's it going to be held at?

But I don't.

I don't.

I don't go to that church.

I don't.

I don't believe in what they believe in and stuff.

Said, are you a Christian?

Well, of course.

Well, so are they.

Yeah, but they got that, you know, look, one, as you said, there's no denominations in heaven.

But two, we are a body made up of different parts, as Jesus said.

You know, if you're the nose, then, you know, the way I put it in modern vernacular is the church is the body.

Well, the church, if you're building the church, you got the people that come out and prepare the ground for the foundation, the excavators and all that.

You don't want them doing the electrical wiring.

No, you want them.

They're not electricians.

Specialists in.

Is prepare that foundation.

Right, exactly.

Then you got the framers.

You don't want them doing the plumbing.

You want them to frame the building.

Right.

Then you got the plumbers.

You don't want them doing electrical wiring.

You don't want the electrical wiring doing the plumbing.

Right.

And Then you got the roofers.

You don't want the roofers doing the drywall, you know, so it takes all these different groups to make the church.

And when, you know, I had our church and all, I told him something in our church isn't sitting right with you.

That's all right, come tell me.

Because if you, you know, after talking with you, I know a lot of different pastors, a lot of different church, I can send you to one that, you know, you may be a plumber attending an electrician church.

And they're talking in every service about electrical stuff.

Oh, and amps and all this stuff.

And you're like, I have no clue what they're talking about.

I know roofing nails and I know shingles, but I don't know what they're talking about here.

Well, if you go to a Rovers church, it's kind of like, oh, man, this is like the best church ever.

Because they're talking my language, right?

Yep.

And that's the whole thing.

You have to find where you're supposed to go.

You can't say one church is the answer.

No.

Everything.

Because it's.

No.

No, it is not.

No.

It's like there's not one pastor that's the answer to every theological question.

Exactly.

And I. I've had to tell people I've ministered to before.

I'm not your dialogue.

I'm teaching you how to dial into God.

Amen.

It's not my job to do that.

I'm not saying the Lord hasn't put something on my heart for certain specific people at times, but he chooses when to reveal that.

Yeah, I can't reveal that.

That's not.

I'm not the head.

There's only one head.

That's Jesus Christ.

That's it.

Through the power of the holy church.

That's right.

The church is not the head.

It is.

The church is to glorify God.

It is the.

It is to be the beacon of light for the glory of God.

But we are not to be glorified.

Amen.

And we're not worthy to be glorified.

I mean, we need to think of ourselves a little more sober judgment than that.

Yep.

That's.

That's why I'm with you.

That's.

You know, and if anyone has a question about that, go stand naked in front of a mirror.

I guarantee you're not looking at a perfect body.

Right?

No, there's no.

And.

And even if you are, I promise you, in 20 years it ain't gonna look that way.

Yeah.

In 30 years.

Eventually it's gonna get old and decrepit.

I mean, that's just, that's it.

Our flesh falls apart, period.

Amen.

I don't care who you are.

I mean, that's been good.

Tell us about your book, God Centered Concept Journal, Making God's Words My Ways.

Just tell us about this book again.

You bet.

Well, it's basic.

It's just a.

It's a good basic journal to help you follow along.

Not only my podcast series, but for you to dive in and to use that as a help to your prayer time.

So we're.

Right now we're in the midst of writing several different publications and those will be coming out.

My goal is to have one of them come out at the end of this year.

And it's actually going to be on the seven ages of the church.

I've got a lot of material, just scattered stuff all over the place.

I feel like a. I'm a researcher and sometimes I'm a little too honest about my process, but that's where I'm at.

I mean, so we've got it all scattered.

Needs to be put into a collection, and then that way we can read.

It's not going to be horrifically long.

I don't think people read long books anymore anyway.

Chapters are going to be as short as possible.

What my goal is is to have it where it's audible, where people can listen to it.

They want to read it on the book, that's great.

It'll be there.

But then also they can listen to it in an audible way.

So I'm even.

I probably will even be the one that narrates it when we do the audible version of this.

So right now, the other thing is, is I'm praying about something that the Lord has been putting on my heart and how far he wants us to go.

But I may have some new information and some new news here in the next couple of weeks.

Amen.

Amen.

Before we close, share again about your podcast, God Center Concept.

You bet.

God Center Concept is all about helping you to connect by understanding how to develop the mindset and attitude to connect to God at a deeper level.

And then how we.

How we.

How that sets the tone for us to go and make disciples of other people.

It doesn't matter where that's at.

You can be in your hometown, you can be making disciples across the oceans, into other land, into other continents.

It could be you're going to another state.

It doesn't matter.

We got to have the right understanding of how we deeply connect to God.

The deeper we can connect, the more he can use us.

He wants us to be complete, total open vessels for him to use.

And that's, you know, that's a, sometimes a hard concept for people to grasp, but that is what he asks us to do.

And if you read our found, you read the last stage of the church.

We're going to talk when we get to that.

And, and then my up some of my episodes already that I've already put out in the God center concept series.

You can listen to that process that Jesus layers out.

And the very last part of that process is that we are basically like survivors.

We are to outlast, we're outlasting until our we go home to be at the Lord and we get our eternal reward for that on the throne with Him.

He who endures to the end will be saved.

Amen to that.

And so I call that the sur.

That's, that's the survival mentality, is that we're going to outplay, outlast, outwit.

Amen.

Amen.

Praise the Lord, folks.

Man, this has been good.

You know, there's no doubt that we're not living in the last of the last days.

I mean, you know, Christian scholars call it the end times.

Hallelujah.

And we're working our way through each of these church ages in order to give you a more thorough understanding of how all of this fits together with what we're witnessing right now around us and on their evening news early every night.

Okay.

So don't be scared about it.

We should be excited about it.

We need to thank God every day that our eyes are seeing these things and hearing these things.

Because Jesus said prophets of old desire to see these things and hear the things, but they couldn't.

But God had it planned that you were born in this day and in this time right now to endure through these things, you know?

I think life would have been a lot simpler back then.

You wouldn't have survived back there.

You weren't designed by God to be back there.

Nope.

Just like, you know, you couldn't take one of them.

There was a TV show when I was young.

This was, man, this was.

I was like single digit age.

Right.

So this is 50 some years ago, easy.

And it was about some cavemen that somehow got transported to the modern day America.

And these cavemen were trying to fit in and it just wasn't working out Right.

Because they were designed to be born back then, you could not survive back in the Old west.

Just like a cowboy couldn't survive today if you brought him from the Old west to today.

God has it planned for each person to have a purpose in the church age and in the time frame and the lifetime that you have been given on this earth, you need to discover that purpose.

You need to find out what your purpose is and live like every day.

Jesus is coming back because he is coming back soon.

Amen, folks.

Man, Scott, this has been good.

I do appreciate your time and sharing all this information with us.

You bet.

And Bob, it's been great to be on the show.

And hey, I look forward to the fourth ages of the church.

And I'm gonna be honest with you, it's probably gonna.

The fourth age of the church by itself is probably gonna be two different episodes.

I was just that long.

When you were telling me about it, I was like, yeah, this sounds like it's gonna be two episodes.

I mean, this is almost two episodes, so.

So it may be three by the time you and I get done.

Amen.

Amen.

Praise the Lord.

Well, folks, get in touch with Scott.

Drop down the show notes, click the links right there.

Order his book God Centered Concept, Making God's Word My Ways, and subscribe to the podcast.

His podcast is awesome.

He's got a lot of great information on there.

That link's down below in the show notes as well.

I guess God has been good folks.

That's all the time we have for today for Scott Wright.

Myself passed by reminding you to be blessed in all that you do.

Thank you for listening to today's episode of the Kingdom Crossroads podcast.

Please subscribe to our podcast so you can be notified when another episode is published.

Please visit our website@www.podcastersforchrist.com.

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for more information, until next time, Be blessed in all that.