This is your go-to Podcast, where we help parents navigate the complexities of family life. Hosted by Ali Kessler of Greyson’s Choice, we’ll cover everything from understanding domestic violence to navigating the legal system, finding the right therapists, life hacks, family law, mental health, custody battles, and how to protect children in dangerous situations.

Host Ali Kessler speaks with Dr Karalynn Royster, a child psychologist and co-parenting expert, about the challenges of navigating co-parenting in high-conflict situations. Dr. Royster shares insights from her Kids First co-parenting program, emphasizing the importance of clear communication, emotional support for both parents and children, and strategies for maintaining a stable environment for kids. The conversation covers the impact of parental conflict on children, therapeutic approaches for different age groups, and practical tips for parents to foster a healthier co-parenting dynamic.

About Dr. Karalynn Royster

Dr. Karalynn Royster is a child psychologist, co-parenting expert, and creator of the Kids First Co-Parenting Program, available through learnwithlittlehouse.com. Having grown up in a high-conflict family herself, she combines clinical expertise with lived experience to help moms navigate divorce and parenting with difficult exes. Her mission is to empower mothers with tools, clarity, and confidence—so their kids can feel secure and thrive even in challenging circumstances.

https://learnwithlittlehouse.com

About Ali Kessler

Ali Kessler is a writer, marketing professional, passionate parent advocate, and founder of Greyson’s Choice, a 501(c)(3) created to raise awareness about the risk of domestic abuse on children. Greyson’s Choice was founded by Ali Kessler in memory of her sweet, vibrant, and fearless 4.5-year-old son, Greyson, who was murdered by his biological father in a murder-suicide during an unsupervised, court-approved visit in Ft. Lauderdale, FL, in 2021. This came just hours after her petition for a domestic violence injunction was denied by a Broward County judge, citing that the “petitioner has failed to allege any overt acts by the respondent which would constitute domestic violence under Florida Statute.”

Ali’s advocacy efforts culminated in the successful passage of Greyson’s Law during the 2023 legislative session. This bill now requires the court to consider threats against ex-partners or spouses when making child visitation and custody determinations in the court, expanding to include the following factors: evidence of domestic violence, whether a parent in the past or currently has reasonable cause to believe that they or a minor child is, or has been in imminent danger of becoming the victim of domestic/sexual violence by the other parent, even if no other legal action has been brought or is currently pending in court.

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Dr. Karalynn Royster

Dr. Royster has dedicated her career to helping children and moms who are navigating the overwhelming stress of divorce and high conflict parenting. Her work is not only professional, but deeply personal. She grew up in a high conflict family herself. That full circle perspective inspired her to design a program that finally speaks to moms who feel like they've tried everything, yet still can't find the right support.

Dr. Karalynn Royster: Yeah. Thanks for having me, Ali. I'm really excited Absolutely. To be here. . And really admire the way that you're sharing your story and how you're moving through the world with this horrific grief. Grief. Thank you. Appreciate that loss. Yeah, thank you. It's everybody's worst nightmare.

So I am a trained child psychologist. That's my background. I'm a clinical psychologist and I've always wanted to work with kids. That's always been the jam. Yeah. And in the therapy world, I don't wanna speak for everybody, but in the therapy world, a lot of therapists do not wanna work with high conflict.

Families, they don't wanna get pulled into court. They don't wanna get grieved. They don't want horrible things happening to their patients or their patient's parents. Like they just, why, why would I deal with that right when I have all these other options? And initially I took that advice being a little, I guess maybe more on the anxious side of , I would like to keep my career.

Ali Kessler: You can't.

I mean, there are so many divorce rates now. It's like kind of, yeah. Opposite.

Dr. Karalynn Royster: Well, and you can be a OCD expert in what are you gonna do? Not treat any kids with OCD that have two parent homes, like they're, you're gonna find it. And so over time I started to find myself with these cases and really.

Can relate and work with these kids. I think in a really interesting and good way, because of my own experience coming up in that and started to become known as someone that would take those cases and did well enough with those cases, I would say. But as the clinician working with the children, there's a lot of things that you can't do.

And so I'm able to say look, this is kind of what's going on as I see it. This is how you help your kids through this and. Here's what I want you to say. Here's how I want you to respond. Right. It can give more to the child, you mean? No to the parent. Not to the other parent.

Ali Kessler: Right. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the hardest part.

More coaching. Right, right. That, that's the really hard part because I know with my son, he had, , a few issues when he was just like two, three, he had sleep issues. Yeah, of course a constant transfer back and forth from household to household had a big impact on him. And I spoke to a child psychologist who wanted to do like some play therapy.

Dr. Karalynn Royster: Well, so that's an interesting thing too.

Another reason that I have this separate business is because a lot of times in difficult dynamics, which encompasses many things.

Ali Kessler: Yes.

Dr. Karalynn Royster: If I'm gonna work with a kid in therapy, and it's a high conflict situation, I require both parents to consent. Smart, and we have very, that's smart. Clear conversations about what this looks like, what I can do, what I can't.

Many times I have moms come to me and say, there's no way he'll consent. He'll block this. He'll ruin the relationship. Why would someone that's actively abusing your kid want you to talk to a therapist? They don't. So they block it, and that puts moms in a really tough situation because they're like, my kid needs therapy.

Ali Kessler: Unless that parent has the a hundred percent decision making in their.

Dr. Karalynn Royster: Agree. Yes. Unless they already have that. Right. And so it's okay way for me to work with moms without needing to see the child and work with them therapeutically.

Right? Which

does not mean that that doesn't need to happen, but it's my way, like with you to be able to say like, okay, look, when he comes back from dad's house and he tells you this, here's how I want you to respond. Not from a legal strategy perspective, but from a keeping your kid Okay. Perspective, you know, and, and the parent.

Okay. And the parent. Okay? Because the same old advice of like, don't talk shit about them. Don't talk badly about them, or just ignore it. Take the high road, don't talk about it at all, or dismiss it. He's not manipulating your kid. There's no way, right? That stuff doesn't work with those dynamics. And you have to say something a lot of times.

Dr. Karalynn Royster: well, and the, that's the tricky thing with the little guys is because they do show us they're struggling. They just show us in different ways. And it can also be. It could just be potty training regression because we're three, and that happens sometimes.

Or it could be something's going on. Right. And that's what's so hard, right?

Ali Kessler: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so you have your regular practice and then the Kids' first program. I guess tell us about the Kids' First co-parenting program, how it's different from traditional therapy or co-parenting advice. I know you said you deal with the mom or.

Yes. One parent I, I suppose, but what makes it especially effective for moms?

Dr. Karalynn Royster: Yeah. Yeah. So it's funny, this journey's been funny because the things that I thought would be really helpful, I mean, I think they probably still are, but they're not as helpful as what some of the moms tell me is the best part.

Right. That's not what people love the most. What they love the most is every week we have, I call 'em co-parenting power hours, but they're a Zoom call and whoever is in the program and wants to hop on, there's like a group. Hops on, and then it's myself and the other moms, which that is not to be discounted because having other people that are going through it with you is really powerful.

Absolutely. And people

will offer advice from their own situations that I don't have. Right. I didn't. Right. I don't, I hadn't worked advice attorney or something. Right. And so that's the real beauty of it. And then of course we have like an online message board in that I share resources all the time.

Ali Kessler: based anywhere, correct?

Dr. Karalynn Royster: Yes, ma'am. Yeah, and then I offer a lot of smaller items that people can use.

I just developed something I'm really excited about. It's like a tech plan about how to, because I was hearing a lot of like FaceTime calls are a nightmare, is recording the calls. I don't know what to do when this happens. Kids crying, I mean, you name it, it comes up on FaceTime calls. It's a really good way to manipulate and control someone.

Yeah, I developed this whole lesson about it and all these ways and support methods for people tracking systems and handouts and frameworks and stuff like that. There was a tracker on my

Ali Kessler: car. Yeah, I know. I read, I heard, I read. Yeah. That, that happened to you.

Dr. Karalynn Royster: Yeah. So I,

Ali Kessler: I wish I had known I would've called you.

You know what

Ali Kessler: No, it happens more than anyone even knows. I , I know. Yeah. We actually, I'm gonna go on a tangent here, but here in Florida, new laws passing like this week about apple air tags, about putting, them in people's belongings unknowingly that it's illegal.

Which is interesting because I guess that's a way of tracking someone is just slipping a little air tag. You know, you never will think about little things like that

Dr. Karalynn Royster: anyway. Yeah. I mean, we have, with the introduction of technology, right? In a high conflict dynamic, the idea is it's, it's so layered because.

Yeah. I have nanny cam, or they

Ali Kessler: have little cameras in like teddy bears that they give the child. I've heard it all.

Dr. Karalynn Royster: And I think, you know, let's try to avoid that stuff as much as possible. We know it's not good for kids to have tech too early, like we know it can be manipulated and used. And then the other part of me is like, but when you're sending your kid into a situation because you have to, and you know it's not safe, we want them to have a way to contact you.

Right? Because that's another way we manipulate people, is we remove their ability to call for help literally. It's abuse. Abuse. Can't do that. So, I mean, obviously this is a little bit for older kids than your son was, but it's a layered, layered issue, you know?

Ali Kessler: Sure, yeah. No, absolutely.

Yeah. And we weren't even allowed to communicate via phone. We were supposed to use like an app.

Dr. Karalynn Royster: Mm-hmm. Called

Ali Kessler: talking parents, but clearly we didn't abide by that.

But it's still happening. Yeah. Still pro, you know, still problem. Absolutely.

Ali Kessler: So from your perspective as a child psychologist, what are the most common ways kids are affected by ongoing conflict between parents and what can moms do like right now to help their children feel more secure?

Dr. Karalynn Royster: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well.

A couple of things in there. So it's pretty common for, and, and it's healthy for children to struggle post separation, whether that's a formal divorce or just like a, we're not, we're going our separate ways. About two years, we see those difficulties and that's if we're moving towards more collaborative co-parent.

Romani. Recently and she was talking about like this idea that things were really bad in the relationship and then you separate and it's just a whole nother set of really bad problems. These are the people that I am managing and, and working with. And so in those dynamics, unfortunately, the research is very clear that the more conflict, the more stress kids have, the more stress they have, the less well they do.

Like we just, we know that the outcomes are not good. Pretty much any measure that you look across, whether it's school, drug use, sexual activity, acting out, anxiety, there's a correlation. Okay. It's not necessarily causation, but right. There's a lot of factors, right? Sure. But more conflict, more stress, not so great for kids.

right? Like

you want to, right. You can still do that.

You just maybe need to do it after bedtime when they won't, aren't as likely to hear it. They may still hear it. So it's about managing your own responses to keep them out of that conflict as much as possible. And then this kind of empowerment from you as the mom, that you can only do what you can do and you can do your best to have a good relationship with your child in your home.

A lot of women need coaching as well, whether that be like a generalized divorce coach or someone who works like more. If you are worried about your kids, someone like me that works with co-parenting, you need support. You need other moms that are going through it. You need people you can complain to.

You need people that'll be like, listen, Ali, you gotta settle down a little bit on this one. Yeah. Pick your battle. This is a problem. Go kick some as. Right, right. You need all these people. You need a team is really the biggest part of it, I would say. Absolutely. It does take a village.

Ali Kessler: Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, that's a thing you're like, that's a good question.

Dr. Karalynn Royster: That is a very good question. 'cause nobody wants to

Ali Kessler: raise a narcissist.

Dr. Karalynn Royster: Nobody wants to raise a narcissist. So what? I think like all good psychologists. The answer is it's very complex and it depends, but the basis of narcissism usually we're kind of anything in that area.

Antisocial, antisocial, a little less, but, but narcissistic, borderline histrionic, that kind of cluster of personality disorders. The piece to keep in mind is that often comes from a place of deep wounding. Usually they've been hurt very badly as young people and deep, deep we call 'em like attachment wounds.

Okay. What would that look like? That would look like instead of when they fall and they get hurt and they start to cry, and then the kid gets up and is like, I'm fine. I didn't get hurt at all. You know, that stupid sidewalk was in my way. Right? Blaming someone else. Some of that is typical kid behavior.

That's pretty normal response for a child. But you may add in a little bit of , you know, it's okay to be hurt and people can help you and cry. I can help you. Yes. It's okay to cry. Like really paying attention to those tender and vulnerable moments . okay. If you have a kid going back and forth into a really narcissistic environment, they are very likely to say to you, no, it's not.

Right, right. The other piece is, well, Daniel Tiger has a

Ali Kessler: whole song that says it's okay to be sad sometimes, little by little I know you'll feel better.

Dr. Karalynn Royster: Yeah. And take a deep breath and count. Yeah.

Ali Kessler: Take, yeah. Count to four. We sang all of them. It's, they're the best four. Yeah. They really are. Yeah.

Dr. Karalynn Royster: It's count to four.

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I think the other piece for moms, and this is why it's important to have your own like good therapist too, is that it's nearly impossible when you have someone in your life that you're. Afraid of or that you really dislike or has hurt you really badly, whether that's your mom or your dad, your own mom, your own dad, or your ex partner.

It's really scary when we see things in our kids that kind of echoes that,

right? Yeah. And

we get triggered. So it's important to have someone that you can talk to and be like, when they did this, I got really scared. Like the lying really triggered me and to explore why that is. Why

Ali Kessler: did it trigger you?

Dr. Karalynn Royster: Right, right. You know, I see this a lot too with, with things like lying,

parents get really in the weeds of like, we don't wanna raise a liar, or like, my ex-husband lied all the time. It's really triggering when she lies and then being able to bring it to someone like myself, or your friends, or even friends that aren't going through divorce. Have them be like, oh yeah, well my kid lied last week about this, and you're like, all right, this is something that six year olds do.

Right. Maybe it doesn't mean she's gonna be a narcissist. Maybe it just means she wanted the candy and that's fine. Right. I mean, everyone lies, so it's, it's good to have a check and balance right around what we're blowing up and what we're not. Makes sense. Yeah.

Ali Kessler: Yeah. Now I have an, okay, so when you What I said, gosh, that was a good question.

Well, these are things that I think about. So when you do have children as your patients?

I heard of play therapy. It's with something that I wanted to do, but we never really did. Can you just explain sort of what each step would look like for maybe each type of age group?

Dr. Karalynn Royster: Yeah, that's a really good question. There are many different types of therapy. So not everybody knows, but therapists are trained in different modalities we call them.

So some folks are way more behavioral. You'll see things like chore charts or like behavior charts and incentives and consequences. Yeah, some things are more incentives are good. Play-based, right? Yeah. So usually with kids, we're doing some sort of play intervention because we think about the play as the language that they're using.

I want the dirt and I also want the dirt because when your little 4-year-old tells me, well, dad was cheating on mom, I need to know if that's true or not, because I don't wanna be gaslighting them right myself as a therapist, right? I integrate some folks with play. It's very child led. They don't lead the play at all.

They're interpreting things as they come up. Like there's so many cool things we can do with play. I do talk with kids a little bit. When I'm playing with them, I will often sort of nudge them in the directions that I think we need to go.

Ali Kessler: Right.

Dr. Karalynn Royster: It's like chopping greens in their smoothie. Exactly. That's exactly it.

It just doesn't really work with kids. I find my like early teens and pre-teens really like to sit on the couch and act like adults. Right. And have a conversation.

Right.

And in that way I work from a very, like psychodynamic, a little bit of CBT integrated with it, where I'm just kind of like, what comes up for you today is that behavioral therapy.

Cognitive behavioral therapy. Yep . yeah. Okay. And that's a lot of like noticing your thought patterns. Challenging those thought patterns, teaching yourself how to think differently about things. Right. Right. How to gently challenge yourself. Taking perspectives, things like that with kids in divorce scenarios.

Divorce kids get told a lot things like you have two Christmases, right? And they're like, I don't care. I would rather not have two Christmases if my parents could be together. And sometimes there's complicated feelings because they didn't want to be in that house and they wanted their parents to get divorced.

And that gets strange too. A lot of times we're doing trauma work as well 'cause there's some sort of either what we call like a relational trauma where someone really deeply hurt you. Right. Their words or actions were not showing up or they witnessed domestic violence or emotional abuse or something.

Pretty scary.

Dr. Karalynn Royster: Yes. So we do. What would you do in

Ali Kessler: that scenario?

Dr. Karalynn Royster: We do, we report to Child Protective Services. Okay. And they'll intervene, at least, here in Colorado fairly quickly. If it's an imminent issue, meaning like if the person that hits them is sitting in the waiting room, I may have to call the police and keep the kid here to make sure they're not gonna be hurt.

If it's like he hit me once three months ago and I'm not going there until Friday, I would call CPS. So depending how pressing. The situation is, so yes, we have reporting standards for sure. We do get called to court and we do get asked a lot about what we think would be helpful for the child and do we have concerns about certain things.

And so sometimes we get called to court and they're trying to get us to do that, but we can't. And so that is really frustrating for everybody 'cause we can't do that. But there are times where they'll call to court and ask you something like, did so and so say this to you? And you're like, yeah. .

They did. You know, like you tell the truth. Do you have concerns about this relationship with this parent? Yeah. If you have good evidence, you can say things like that. You wanna try to avoid putting the therapist in that role because if the kid gets whiff of you, like taking a, you've destroyed the neutral, safe place their relationship.

Right.

Greyson did not wanna go to his dad's, it was Father's Day, so he had to go because that was in our agreement. And the entire video was him in the back, in his car seat, hysterically crying. I don't wanna go to Daddy's, I don't wanna go to Daddy's. And here I am driving saying, but you love going to Daddy's house and you're gonna have so much fun and you guys are gonna play and you guys are gonna like, try to make the experience.

You know, and then of course once you're there, I'm sure they're fine. But what's, what's the best approach to, to talk to the child?

Dr. Karalynn Royster: Yeah. So the best approach that you can do. It's a, it's a fine line. That's what I would say if you're not concerned. Right. I think it, it depends on your co-parenting dynamic.

It's very clear. Right. But the court says you have to, you have to like you like what you were saying. I would say in those dynamics, I often coach moms to really validate the feeling the child's having like, I know this is really hard. You really don't wanna go. I'm so happy you're telling me that. What are we gonna do together about it?

Okay. If they're old enough to do that. Right. So acknowledge their feelings. You're acknowledging the feeling, you're acknowledging how hard it is, and you're not saying things like, you're gonna be fine. Like, it's gonna be so fun. Yeah.

When we know it isn't. Right.

Ali Kessler: Right. Like knows he, so, you know, he just didn't wanna be away from mommy.

There's never an issue. You may say to your child, it's okay to talk about your feelings with me and your dad, and so if you wanna share with him that you're having a hard time, you absolutely can. What you wanna avoid is saying something like, make sure you tell your dad this. Make sure he knows too.

Right, right, right. Like

Ali Kessler: putting him. Well, I know for me, when Greyson didn't wanna go, it was most of the time because he didn't wanna, he missed mommy. So we read a book, you know, the, the invisible string. And we'd always talk about, you know, I'm pulling my string, I'll be there. I'm, you know, you'll feel it.

Mm-hmm. So that was a great way for us to sort of, you know, say you're gonna be good and I think I'm thinking of you. I'm pulling my string.

Dr. Karalynn Royster: Yeah. And so there's two pieces of that that sometimes I talk with moms about. What we wanna do. We don't wanna hype up your time away too much. You don't wanna be like, and I'm gonna go to the spa and I'm gonna have this great time without you.

I know you hate putting away laundry. I'm gonna put some of that away for you. Yeah. I will be thinking of you, but I will be okay. Is kind of the message you wanna send. Another good resource is the Kissing Hand. It's like a little book about raccoons and when she misses her son, she. Kisses his hand and they draw a little heart on each hand and then he can look at it

while he's on.

Yeah.

Yeah. So it's a tricky dynamic and it really depends on your situation. Okay. But what you wanna avoid is like the gaslighting, right? Of like guess, I guess Inwe

Ali Kessler: situation. It's just try to spin things in a positive light. Yeah. So whatever. And even

Dr. Karalynn Royster: just like you're telling me you're getting it out, I appreciate that.

I'm happy you're telling me how you feel. Right.

Ali Kessler: But you still gotta go.

Because if you avoid the the visit, then you're inhibiting parenting time and that's gonna get you against, you can put you in

Ali Kessler: jail, can put you in jail. So now I wanna sort of talk about ways that co-parents can be amicable. What are some tips to sort of make it? Obviously you wanna do what's best for your child.

You wanna have the best experience for everyone involved, but it's, for some people it gets. You know, somewhere in the road it gets split to, to something a little uglier. What's a way to sort of maybe either bring it back to good or just to get on the same page, let's just be this way for the child.

What would you recommend?

Right? I think if it is a person that shows insight and shows genuine concern and care for you and has shown through your child and through their actions that they're trying to grow, trying to learn, then you can make a decision around like, we can work on this. Right? Okay. You need those things there first.

'cause it's fundamentals. You need the fundamentals of like the basic intent to be a good human right, to be a good friend to you, right? And so an example would be they say something mean about you, right? And your child tells you that, and maybe you address it on your co-parenting app. You say, look, I heard, or this is something that came up.

Narcissists will never do that. Never. And so someone that's trying to grow and learn and is willing to say, to repair with you and the child doesn't have to be like, you're not married. But it does need to, you need to have that effort. That's the basis of a friendship, right? Or a business-like relationship.

Shoot. I missed the deadline. I'm sorry. I'll get right on it. Instead of you didn't tell me what I was supposed to do. So that kind of thing. And if you have that basis, then the ability to do some of our really good parent co-parenting skills, like assuming the best communicating, like getting responses back from each other, being able to manage conflict, knowing when the conflict gets high enough that you need a decision maker or someone to come in and help you.

AI is like the best tool on the planet.

Ali Kessler: Yeah. For

Dr. Karalynn Royster: collaborative co-parenting.

Dr. Karalynn Royster: Yes. Next.

Ali Kessler: Yes. So I

Dr. Karalynn Royster: often recommend best interest, which I like because you can be the only one that has it- unlike like talking parents or civil communicator, which you're both ordered to have and use. Right, right. This you can put on your own phone. Right. And it will do all those things and rephrase stuff.

And I think anything like that. Yeah. I mean, I use AI all the time. Course. I write, write an email, and I'm like, Ooh, I sound. Intense. Like pop this in, chat GPT and say, make this sound a little kinder. Or sometimes I'm like, make this more firm. So I think that that's a huge, huge tool that we've never had before in the co-parenting space.

Dr. Karalynn Royster: Mm-hmm.

Ali Kessler: So that is definitely helpful.

Dr. Karalynn Royster: Yeah, and I mean, I think you gotta get yourself right first. Like you need to be, you both are on a healing journey, whether you like it or not, and kind of this acknowledgement of we're in different places on this healing journey and I might be really on the angry phase, and that's not the time to sit next to them at the soccer game.

True. Maybe, maybe in six months I might feel different, and that's okay. You know?

Ali Kessler: Absolutely. Okay, so for the parents listening who feel completely drained and doesn't know where to begin, what would you say the first step would be to take towards creating a calmer, more stable environment for the children?

Dr. Karalynn Royster: Their own support. I really believe that I, I live by, as a mother that adage like, you can't pour water from an empty cup, and boy do we as moms try.

Ali Kessler: Right.

Ali Kessler: oxygen mass comes down and you gotta take care of yourself

Dr. Karalynn Royster: first. I told that to somebody else. I was like, what mother is ever gonna put that on herself first?

None of us. Like I know, I know you tell me every time, but I'm still never doing that. And so like, but there is some truth to it. Like moms will move mountains to get their kids into therapy and to get their kids the support they need. Honestly, in these high conflict dynamics, it's you. It's you that needs the support.

You're

the one that they're crying to at 11 o'clock. It ain't me the therapist, you know? Right. Like you're the one that has to send them out to the transition. Like, how are you? Okay. That's, that's where you gotta

Ali Kessler: start,

Dr. Karalynn Royster: I

guess. Right.

Ali Kessler: Do you ever work with the parents therapist? Like maybe sort of, I don't know.

Talk about strategy for the child and the parent? A little.

Well,

Ali Kessler: I meant more like if they like. Had something to try with the child. You know, they have, so that way both ways can communicate or some sort. Yeah.

Dr. Karalynn Royster: Yeah. I think that's a really, when it works that way and it works well, it's great. Does that kinda make sense? Yeah, yeah, yeah. If we can do that, it's like the best of both worlds when we can kind of bring those pieces together.

It's pretty great. Okay,

Ali Kessler: so how can people find you?

Dr. Karalynn Royster: Yeah, so I am on lots of social media. Okay. So I'm on Instagram and Facebook at Learn With Little House. I have a podcast called The Kids First Co-Parenting podcast.

Okay. Where we

dive into all these topics and we sometimes have guests on too. I usually do those as a bonus.

I have interesting folks on and I'm happy to come on anytime. Ali, I would love to have you. I hope you mean that sincerely. 'cause I'm going to Absolutely. Absolutely. I would love for

I just respect that so much because.

Dr. Karalynn Royster: I don't, I mean, it's, that's just,

Ali Kessler: well, it's the only way to get heard and to make a difference because until something happens to these lawmakers, nothing's gonna happen. Yeah. So, yeah. Well, and I am a little bit familiar with Colorado's laws, especially with, there's, there was a lot of, maybe like a year ago or somewhat a lot going on with family court and laws and about this particular family.

Dr. Karalynn Royster: Yeah. There was some really devastating things here as well. Yeah , I would love that. Okay, great. Yeah, we should definitely arrange that. And then, yeah, my website, learn with little house.com.

Ali Kessler: Alright, I'll put all of that in the show notes.

Dr. Karalynn Royster: Yeah, it's, I'm always open to conversations and talking.

It's important work, so. Absolutely passionately about it.

Learn with little house.com and remember, you're not alone. Your voice matters. Stay strong, connected, keep listening, subscribe, share it with anyone who needs it, and help us continue spreading awareness and support. So thank you again Karalynn, and we will be in touch. Thank you, Ali. I really appreciate it.

Absolutely.