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Building Relationships For Spiritual Growth
Episode 4521st November 2023 • CROWD Church Livestream • Crowd Church
00:00:00 00:56:31

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Are you ready to embark on an incredible journey of spiritual growth like never before?

In this enlightening session, you'll uncover:

  • 🌱 The crucial role of nurturing relationships in your spiritual journey.
  • 🔗 The power of self-leadership and how it ignites your spiritual journey.
  • 🌟 The magic of speaking words of encouragement and hope.
  • 🐑 The priceless value of God's flock and your place in it.
  • 🙌 How to infuse your life with purpose, guided by the values of the Bible.

Transcripts

Matt Edmundson:

Welcome to this week's Crowd Church service.

Matt Edmundson:

We are a digital church on a quest to discover how Jesus helps

Matt Edmundson:

us live a more meaningful life.

Matt Edmundson:

We are a community, a space to explore the Christian faith, and a place

Matt Edmundson:

we last about an hour, and in a few seconds we will start with a time

Matt Edmundson:

of worship, after which you will meet our hosts for our service.

Matt Edmundson:

Who will introduce today's talk.

Matt Edmundson:

After the talk, we head into Conversation Street, where we look at your stories

Matt Edmundson:

and questions that you've posted in the comments throughout the live stream.

Matt Edmundson:

I want to invite you to connect with us here at Crowd Church, and there are

Matt Edmundson:

a few ways that you can do just that.

Matt Edmundson:

Firstly, you can engage with Crowd from any device during our live

Matt Edmundson:

stream, and if you're up for it.

Matt Edmundson:

Why not invite a few friends over and experience the service together?

Matt Edmundson:

Church is all about connecting with God and connecting with others, and

Matt Edmundson:

one of the easiest ways for you to do that is to also join one of our

Matt Edmundson:

midweek groups where we need online together to catch up and discover

Matt Edmundson:

more about the amazingness of Christ.

Matt Edmundson:

You can also subscribe to our podcast called What's.

Matt Edmundson:

The Story, where we deep dive into stories of faith and courage from everyday people.

Matt Edmundson:

More information about all of these things that I've mentioned can

Matt Edmundson:

be found on our website at www.

Matt Edmundson:

crowd.

Matt Edmundson:

church or you can reach us on social media at crowd church.

Matt Edmundson:

If you're new to crowd or new to the Christian faith And would like to know

Matt Edmundson:

what your next steps to take are why not head over to our website crowd.

Matt Edmundson:

church forward slash next for more details.

Matt Edmundson:

And now, the moment you've been waiting for is here.

Matt Edmundson:

Our online church service starts.

Matt Edmundson:

Right now.

Matt Edmundson:

Good evening and welcome to Crowd Online Church.

Matt Edmundson:

Great to see you.

Matt Edmundson:

Hello.

Matt Edmundson:

Hello everyone.

Matt Edmundson:

Hello.

Matt Edmundson:

Hello.

Matt Edmundson:

Jan's here.

Matt Edmundson:

Jan's in the house.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

So your second week with

Jan Burch:

us.

Jan Burch:

It is.

Jan Burch:

Thanks for having

Matt Edmundson:

me back.

Matt Edmundson:

You came back.

Matt Edmundson:

After last week you came back.

Matt Edmundson:

You weren't like totally put off.

Jan Burch:

No.

Jan Burch:

Only a little bit.

Jan Burch:

Okay, we'll try

Matt Edmundson:

harder this week.

Matt Edmundson:

We'll definitely try harder.

Matt Edmundson:

Andy, how you doing?

Matt Edmundson:

Great to see you in the comments.

Matt Edmundson:

If you're watching the live stream, joining with us, whether on YouTube

Matt Edmundson:

or Facebook do say hi in the comments.

Matt Edmundson:

It'd be great to hear from you.

Matt Edmundson:

So yeah, welcome.

Matt Edmundson:

Welcome to Crowd Online Church.

Matt Edmundson:

Great that you're here.

Matt Edmundson:

How's your week

Jan Burch:

been?

Jan Burch:

Yeah, I've had a, an okay week, quite busy with work and various

Jan Burch:

things, all yeah, all right.

Jan Burch:

Show was okay?

Matt Edmundson:

Yes.

Matt Edmundson:

Yes, it was.

Matt Edmundson:

No, it was very good, actually.

Matt Edmundson:

It's gone by very quick.

Matt Edmundson:

It felt like we were here yesterday.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, I know.

Jan Burch:

It's crazy, isn't it?

Jan Burch:

I

Matt Edmundson:

know, absolutely.

Matt Edmundson:

You're just like, oh, have I left this place?

Matt Edmundson:

I don't know.

Matt Edmundson:

Andy says hello, Jan, by the way.

Jan Burch:

Hello.

Jan Burch:

Hello, Andy.

Jan Burch:

Can you read that without your glasses?

Jan Burch:

Yeah, I can.

Jan Burch:

I can see distance, fine, it's closer.

Jan Burch:

It's

Matt Edmundson:

just close up.

Matt Edmundson:

It's close up.

Matt Edmundson:

So yes, a very warm welcome to you if you're just joining us.

Matt Edmundson:

This is Crowd Online Church.

Matt Edmundson:

Today we have got the Right Reverend John Harding talking with us.

Matt Edmundson:

In case you don't know, John is, what do we, why don't you tell people who John is?

Matt Edmundson:

John

Jan Burch:

is a Senior Pastor of Frontline Church.

Jan Burch:

www.

Jan Burch:

crowdchurch.

Jan Burch:

org and he's been a member of the church for many years.

Jan Burch:

And he, yeah, leads the whole team there and he's great.

Jan Burch:

He's a legend, isn't he?

Jan Burch:

He is, he's brilliant.

Jan Burch:

He's a legend.

Jan Burch:

Yeah, great teacher.

Jan Burch:

grEat what?

Matt Edmundson:

Teacher.

Jan Burch:

I don't mean school, he was a school teacher.

Jan Burch:

He was a school teacher yeah.

Jan Burch:

He teaches.

Jan Burch:

The word very

Matt Edmundson:

He does teach it very well.

Matt Edmundson:

So yeah, we got John sharing the word with us.

Matt Edmundson:

So he's going to be talking from the book of Acts, which is a book.

Matt Edmundson:

We have been working our way through over the last forever.

Matt Edmundson:

It feels I don't even know where we are today.

Matt Edmundson:

I think chap's 20 somewhere around there.

Matt Edmundson:

We've got five or six more weeks.

Matt Edmundson:

I think in the book of Acts I could be wrong.

Matt Edmundson:

I think we go to the end of January.

Matt Edmundson:

We're going to have a slight break over Christmas.

Matt Edmundson:

And then we'll start on our new series.

Matt Edmundson:

Which we're still thinking of the title for, but we're going to be talking

Matt Edmundson:

basically about wellbeing and what does that look like physically, mentally,

Matt Edmundson:

spiritually, um, economically, all that kind of stuff, relationally, yeah, a

Matt Edmundson:

lot of stuff we're going to get into, which I'm really looking forward to.

Matt Edmundson:

So this sort of whole wellbeing series that we've got planned.

Matt Edmundson:

So make sure.

Matt Edmundson:

I don't know yet.

Matt Edmundson:

We've not put it out yet, but you never know.

Matt Edmundson:

So yeah, we've got that coming.

Matt Edmundson:

So make sure you like and subscribe to the online church.

Matt Edmundson:

And then when it comes out, you'll know all about it.

Matt Edmundson:

If you haven't done so already, by the way, head over to the website where www.

Matt Edmundson:

crowd.

Matt Edmundson:

church, or you can find us on social media at crowd church.

Matt Edmundson:

Where you can connect with us that way follow along, join in the conversation,

Matt Edmundson:

direct messages on the website at crowd.

Matt Edmundson:

church.

Matt Edmundson:

You will find a number, WhatsApp number, where you can

Matt Edmundson:

reach out to us via WhatsApp.

Matt Edmundson:

You can send us your prayer requests, any questions that you've got.

Matt Edmundson:

We've been having great conversations with people like Judy this week, which

Matt Edmundson:

she's just an absolute legend, Judy.

Matt Edmundson:

If you'd be like Judy, come and enjoy the conversation with us on Wopsap.

Matt Edmundson:

Wopsap?

Matt Edmundson:

I don't know either.

Matt Edmundson:

I just don't know.

Matt Edmundson:

I don't know.

Matt Edmundson:

Yes, but so we've got John Harding.

Matt Edmundson:

After John Harding

Jan Burch:

Nicola said, Good morning, Nicola.

Matt Edmundson:

Maybe for some people around the world, it is in fact morning.

Matt Edmundson:

It is.

Matt Edmundson:

I can put that to the broadcasters to confuse everybody.

Matt Edmundson:

mOrning, Lala.

Matt Edmundson:

Ah,

Jan Burch:

Julie Connolly, hi.

Jan Burch:

Look at that, Julie's joined us.

Jan Burch:

Hi, Julie.

Jan Burch:

Welcome back home.

Jan Burch:

Is Julie back now?

Jan Burch:

She's been in India,

Matt Edmundson:

hasn't she?

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, I don't know if she's still over there.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, I think they're

Jan Burch:

home

Matt Edmundson:

now.

Matt Edmundson:

Okay, if you're actually welcome, I hope it was good in India.

Matt Edmundson:

I know, I still thought they were over there, but maybe

Matt Edmundson:

they're watching this in India.

Matt Edmundson:

I don't know.

Matt Edmundson:

Anyway, wherever you are in the world watching this great to see you.

Matt Edmundson:

Great that you're joining us.

Matt Edmundson:

Do say hi in the comments.

Matt Edmundson:

Love to hear from you.

Matt Edmundson:

And yeah, whether you're watching on Facebook or on one of the many

Matt Edmundson:

other channels like YouTube it's great that you're joining us.

Matt Edmundson:

So without further ado, we're going to get into John's talk.

Matt Edmundson:

Oh, Julie says amazing.

Jan Burch:

The photos, the pictures were amazing.

Matt Edmundson:

Do you want to tell people what Julie did?

Matt Edmundson:

I don't,

Jan Burch:

I don't know fully 100%, but I think she was with a team, Fliss

Jan Burch:

was there, in India, and they were, Do you know what I mean, Matt Crew,

Jan Burch:

Diocese, Prayer, Conversation Street, Holcombe, Origin, Origins, Liverpool,

Jan Burch:

Frontline Church, Jesus Christ, eCommerce

Matt Edmundson:

Podcast, EP.

Matt Edmundson:

It's very nice that happened.

Matt Edmundson:

So yeah, we got back on track.

Matt Edmundson:

We've got John doing the word.

Matt Edmundson:

After John has taught I think his talk is about 15, 16 minutes long

Matt Edmundson:

from memory, something like that.

Matt Edmundson:

Anyway, after when, however long he's chatting for, we'll be back, John

Matt Edmundson:

and I will be back for Conversation Street, where we're going to go

Matt Edmundson:

through your questions or comments.

Matt Edmundson:

in the feed and we're going to chat about we're going to talk about

Matt Edmundson:

the talk is what we're going to do.

Matt Edmundson:

Do throw your questions in the comments.

Matt Edmundson:

Be great to hear what you've got to say.

Matt Edmundson:

So I'm going to push this button on my pads and John and I'll be back directly.

Matt Edmundson:

We'll see

John Harding:

you soon.

John Harding:

Hi there, Crowd Church.

John Harding:

I want to share some thoughts with you today from Acts chapter 20.

John Harding:

And I'd really encourage you to listen to this talk with a Bible open.

John Harding:

Maybe even read Acts 20, the chapter after you've listened to this talk,

John Harding:

just to help you really take hold of what God might be wanting to say to you

John Harding:

today through the text through his word.

John Harding:

Let me just overview.

John Harding:

The chapter really quickly, just to place it into its context, you've got Paul, the

John Harding:

Apostle Paul, he is travelling around on mission through Israel, modern day Turkey,

John Harding:

into Greece, onto Rome, and as he does he goes everywhere preaching the Gospel.

John Harding:

People are becoming Christians.

John Harding:

He's gathering those new Christian believers together and starting

John Harding:

new churches, new communities.

John Harding:

He's training up new leaders for those churches and then as you go through

John Harding:

Acts you see he goes back to those communities from time to further

John Harding:

encourage and develop the leaders.

John Harding:

That's Acts, and then he's writing letters to those churches to help them,

John Harding:

and they are called the Epistles, books in the New Testament like Ephesians,

John Harding:

Corinthians, Philippians, that he's writing back into those emerging church

John Harding:

communities, and the main point that I want to make here Today from Acts 20 is

John Harding:

that Christianity, spiritual development, spiritual growth, is a relational thing.

John Harding:

It's relational.

John Harding:

It's something that we do better together and that comes across

John Harding:

really strongly in Acts 20.

John Harding:

I'll explain why in just a moment, but this is one of the things I love about

John Harding:

what we're doing here with Crowd Church.

John Harding:

In this modern world, A person could, if they wanted to, they could try

John Harding:

and develop and grow spiritually entirely on their own in isolation.

John Harding:

You could go online, you could find loads of sermons and teachings by people

John Harding:

you don't know, and you could never interact with other Christians, you

John Harding:

could get it all beamed into your home.

John Harding:

But that is not what we're trying to do through Crowd and Online Church.

John Harding:

What we're trying to do is find ways of connecting.

John Harding:

Together, growing together, and my goal is not that people would listen to this talk.

John Harding:

My hope is that you'd listen to this talk and then connect with others in

John Harding:

working out what it means to apply it to your life and to live it.

John Harding:

tHis chapter, Acts 20, is so relational.

John Harding:

In the previous chapter, Acts 19, Paul has been in Ephesus, modern day Turkey,

John Harding:

and he has basically caused a riot.

John Harding:

He's escaped for his life.

John Harding:

And now he's travelling through Macedonia, through Greece, onto his way.

John Harding:

And the first thing I want you to notice about this chapter and about

John Harding:

the relationships in this chapter is that as Paul journeys through

John Harding:

life, he takes people with him.

John Harding:

He walks through life with people.

John Harding:

And there's this list of people in verse 4 that Paul is journeying with,

John Harding:

people who Paul is investing in as he travels, Sopater, Gaius, and of course

John Harding:

Luke, who's writing everything down when he says we, he's talking about

John Harding:

himself and Paul, and those others.

John Harding:

And so we all need a few people who we are journeying through life with.

John Harding:

I wonder who you would name in your list as Luke names in Paul's list.

John Harding:

The second thing I want you to know is about this chapter and

John Harding:

about the relationships in this chapter is that everywhere Paul

John Harding:

goes he is encouraging people.

John Harding:

Verse 1 says he encouraged the disciples.

John Harding:

Verse 2 says he traveled through the area speaking many words

John Harding:

of encouragement to the people.

John Harding:

If you want to build good friendships, good relationships, speak words of

John Harding:

encouragement and life to people.

John Harding:

Don't be one of those people who are always moaning, always

John Harding:

complaining, because, people don't really want to journey through

John Harding:

life with people who are like that.

John Harding:

Speak words of hope, speak words of encouragement, speak words of

John Harding:

blessing to those people around you.

John Harding:

Yes, be open, be honest, but make sure that you are investing

John Harding:

more into the relationship.

John Harding:

So I wonder, if you were to do a little audit of your speech, if someone was

John Harding:

to record your speech, what you say to others, would your speech be characterised

John Harding:

by encouragement and blessing, or by discouragement or discouragement?

John Harding:

So then, through chapter 20, as we hit verse 17, Paul stops his journey

John Harding:

for a while in a place called Miletus.

John Harding:

And Paul sends for the leaders of the Ephesian church to come to meet him there.

John Harding:

Because he wants to meet them, but he can't go back to Ephesus safely because...

John Harding:

He caused a riot the last time that he was there.

John Harding:

So he gathers those leaders to himself.

John Harding:

Relational.

John Harding:

And in Acts 20, we read Paul's words to those leaders.

John Harding:

They are incredible words.

John Harding:

I wish I had time to unpack them with you, I'd encourage you to read those

John Harding:

words that Paul speaks to that team of leaders, he says to them, verse 18, You

John Harding:

have seen how I lived when I was with you.

John Harding:

And that is really important, how I lived.

John Harding:

Because in the Christian faith we learn more through imitation.

John Harding:

Learn in community, learn in relationship, I'm not really

John Harding:

interested in how much someone knows.

John Harding:

I'm interested in how they live, how it's applied to their life,

John Harding:

the difference that it makes.

John Harding:

juSt a thought, but I wonder, what lessons are people learning from you,

John Harding:

from the way that you live your life?

John Harding:

Now, it is clear from chapter 20 that Paul...

John Harding:

Paul has a pretty good idea that this is going to be the last

John Harding:

time he speaks to these leaders.

John Harding:

Verse 38, those leaders realise that they may never see Paul again.

John Harding:

So when we read it, we can read it as some of Paul's last words.

John Harding:

That's how, in his mind, he intended it, to speak to them, his last words.

John Harding:

And so I just want to focus on those words from verse 28, chapter 20, verse 28.

John Harding:

Paul says to these leaders, keep watch over yourselves.

John Harding:

And all the flock.

John Harding:

Now, flock is a relational term, isn't it?

John Harding:

That's why I say in this passage, it is relational.

John Harding:

The Christian faith is relational.

John Harding:

As we enter into a relationship with Jesus, we become part of a flock.

John Harding:

We have a relationship with others.

John Harding:

We then have to find a flock, a community, a church, a place

John Harding:

of refuge that we can belong.

John Harding:

But notice that Paul says...

John Harding:

Watch over yourselves and all the flock.

John Harding:

In other words, as leaders, we have to lead ourselves well first.

John Harding:

That is the first level of leadership.

John Harding:

That's what I'm looking for when I'm looking to develop leaders.

John Harding:

Someone who leads themselves well.

John Harding:

Those levels of leadership, leading self, leading others.

John Harding:

And how many leaders do we see that can seemingly lead others well?

John Harding:

They can seemingly lead organisations into impacts and growth, but

John Harding:

then later on we discover they hadn't kept watch over themselves,

John Harding:

they hadn't led themselves well.

John Harding:

Leadership starts with self leadership.

John Harding:

And Paul then reminds those leaders, actually, it's not their flock.

John Harding:

They don't own the flock.

John Harding:

The church community, it is Jesus church.

John Harding:

It is Jesus flock.

John Harding:

He is the chief shepherd, the good shepherd.

John Harding:

As a church leader, I find that so liberating, so freeing, that

John Harding:

as leaders, we just steward and care for what belongs to you.

John Harding:

By the way, verse 28 also reminds us of the cost of this flock.

John Harding:

This flock is precious because he bought it with his own blood.

John Harding:

There was a cost to being part of his flock.

John Harding:

Verse 29, Paul then talks about the savage wolves who attack the flock.

John Harding:

Now, this is nothing to be scared of, there's no fear for us

John Harding:

because our good shepherd Jesus guards us and watches over us.

John Harding:

But it is a warning to us.

John Harding:

And this is again about relationship, it's about belonging.

John Harding:

I as a sheep in God's flock, I'm prone to get disconnected.

John Harding:

I'm prone to go about...

John Harding:

My own way I'm prone to wander.

John Harding:

It's what sheep do now, that is the sort of sheep that the wolf,

John Harding:

the sat, that Satan is looking for.

John Harding:

Easy pickings, that one sheep that gets separated and disconnected from the flock.

John Harding:

So don't let fence, don't let church hurt.

John Harding:

Don't let pride.

John Harding:

Don't let unforgiveness, don't let consumerism and preference, don't

John Harding:

let it disconnect you from the flock.

John Harding:

Stay connected in relationship with other believers.

John Harding:

Now I'm going to finish in just a moment.

John Harding:

I'm keeping it short, not least because in the middle of the

John Harding:

chapter is the story of Eutychus.

John Harding:

Paul preached right through the night into the morning.

John Harding:

And in the morning, Utica fell asleep and he fell off a third

John Harding:

story window and he died.

John Harding:

And Paul, very much in the imitation of Jesus, he imitates

John Harding:

Jesus, Elijah and Elisha, and he raised the boy back to life.

John Harding:

In fact, he uses the very same words that Jesus had used when

John Harding:

Jesus had raised Jairus's daughter.

John Harding:

So actually, if anything, this passage affirms long sermons.

John Harding:

As long as those long sermons are accompanied by a demonstration

John Harding:

of the Spirit's power.

John Harding:

No one cares how long the preacher preaches for if someone gets

John Harding:

raised from the dead, do they?

John Harding:

That all night preaching, it does help me to land on my last point, and it's this.

John Harding:

Paul grafted, Paul served the Lord with all of his energy, Paul worked hard not

John Harding:

to earn his salvation, not to earn God's favour, he wasn't striving, he wasn't

John Harding:

some sort of self serving workaholic, no, he loved the Lord, and he loved people,

John Harding:

and he wanted people to be brought into relationship with Jesus, into relationship

John Harding:

with others, the church, the flock, Paul's work, his labour, I would say, reflexed

John Harding:

out of his relationship with Jesus.

John Harding:

It reflexed out of God's grace that was abounding to him and at work in his life.

John Harding:

If I'm honest, one of my concerns about modern Western Christianity is

John Harding:

that we give the impression that...

John Harding:

We should put our effort and our energy into ourselves, into self

John Harding:

development, spiritual formation.

John Harding:

It's a bit of a pendulum swing from previous generations and

John Harding:

now we've discovered Sabbath.

John Harding:

I'm just resting in the Lord.

John Harding:

I'm just Sabbathing, a permanent Sabbath rest.

John Harding:

Don't ask anything of me.

John Harding:

But actually what we see in the earliest church in Acts is that the joy, the

John Harding:

energy, the transformation personally.

John Harding:

came as those first believers sought to seek first the kingdom of God.

John Harding:

As they built the kingdom, as they extended the kingdom, as they

John Harding:

sowed into and invested into the lives of others, that's where the

John Harding:

joint transformation was found.

John Harding:

And this is the dynamic that we see here in chapter 20, and in Paul's

John Harding:

final words to them, verse 35.

John Harding:

And Paul says to them, he says, It says everything that I did, all the hard

John Harding:

work, all the serving of the week, it was all done in response to Jesus words.

John Harding:

That it is more blessed to give than to receive.

John Harding:

It's more blessed to give than to receive.

John Harding:

There is a greater joy, a greater happiness, a greater satisfaction,

John Harding:

a greater transformation that comes through the giving of ourselves.

John Harding:

In loving service of King Jesus.

John Harding:

Now usually when you preach a message like that I've found people like to

John Harding:

qualify it and balance it out and say, Ah yes, that's right John, but you

John Harding:

need healthy boundaries, don't get burnt out, which is absolutely true.

John Harding:

It's correct.

John Harding:

And as we read earlier, shepherds...

John Harding:

Take care of yourself first and then the flock.

John Harding:

But I want my final points here to be this that Paul calls us

John Harding:

into observation and imitation.

John Harding:

It's about observation and imitation of a way of life.

John Harding:

Who are you observing?

John Harding:

When I observe the lives of the healthiest, happiest, most fulfilled

John Harding:

people I know, I see people...

John Harding:

Really, who are truly living out those words of Jesus, they have discovered

John Harding:

that it is more blessed to give Than to receive people who serve.

John Harding:

So Acts 20, relationships.

John Harding:

Who are you speaking words of encouragement to?

John Harding:

Who are you journeying through life with?

John Harding:

Who are you caring for and who are you serving?

John Harding:

Amen.

Matt Edmundson:

So welcome back.

Matt Edmundson:

John was pretty good.

Matt Edmundson:

. I enjoyed that talk.

Matt Edmundson:

Have you got lots of notes?

Matt Edmundson:

I saw you doing this with your glasses, so I'm just like,

Jan Burch:

I'm going to read them now.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

I've just got to get my head around the notes.

Matt Edmundson:

Thank you, Mr.

Matt Edmundson:

Harding.

Matt Edmundson:

That was fantastic.

Matt Edmundson:

It was.

Matt Edmundson:

Really encouraging.

Matt Edmundson:

Very challenging.

Matt Edmundson:

And yeah, before we get into that, let me just catch up with the comments here.

Matt Edmundson:

So we have got Anna Kettle saying, lovely to see you.

Matt Edmundson:

Thank you, Anna.

Matt Edmundson:

And as a legend, she's one of the hosts on the show.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

It's not a show, is it?

Matt Edmundson:

It's a church service, I don't know.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, Friday night live.

Matt Edmundson:

I do podcasts, other podcasts, hence the reason I keep calling,

Matt Edmundson:

sometimes I call this one a show.

Matt Edmundson:

Actually, sometimes I call the other podcast online church services,

Matt Edmundson:

which is completely not true at all.

Matt Edmundson:

So it's, maybe it's an age thing, I'm just getting a bit mixed up.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, I think so.

Matt Edmundson:

We've got Miriam in the comments, who's watching from Scarborough.

Matt Edmundson:

Scarborough.

Matt Edmundson:

Scarborough, she's on holiday in Scarborough.

Matt Edmundson:

Actually, I went to Scarborough when I was a kid yeah, as a holiday.

Matt Edmundson:

I've really good memories of it as well.

Matt Edmundson:

And yeah, so much so I've not wanted to go since.

Matt Edmundson:

Just because I don't want to destroy the memory, if that makes sense.

Matt Edmundson:

Scarborough Fair.

Matt Edmundson:

Scarborough Fair.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, Nicola's put in the comments, I love being in the crowd flock.

Matt Edmundson:

John obviously used the word flock a lot.

Matt Edmundson:

We're going to get into that.

Matt Edmundson:

But Nicholas put that I'd have been part of the crowd flock

Matt Edmundson:

and I just replied, actually, I think that's maybe the new name.

Matt Edmundson:

We'll change it from Crowd Church to Crowd Flock.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

crowdflock.

Matt Edmundson:

com No, we're not going to, not at all.

Matt Edmundson:

So got Isaac in the comments.

Matt Edmundson:

Hello, Pastor.

Matt Edmundson:

Greetings to you.

Matt Edmundson:

Please pray for my orphanage home for food and water.

Matt Edmundson:

I think Isaac's from Africa, actually.

Matt Edmundson:

So Isaac, good to see you.

Matt Edmundson:

And God's blessing on your orphanage.

Matt Edmundson:

It's going on there.

Matt Edmundson:

Andy liked the bit about investing in relationships, otherwise relationships

Matt Edmundson:

might not be mutually balanced.

Matt Edmundson:

Very good.

Matt Edmundson:

So we're going to get into all of this.

Matt Edmundson:

Keep your comments coming and any questions that you've got based on

Matt Edmundson:

John's any questions, full stop, really.

Matt Edmundson:

We'll try and answer them, unless it's what are the latest lottery numbers, in

Matt Edmundson:

which case it'll be a complete guess.

Matt Edmundson:

But yeah, keep your questions, keep your comments coming as

Matt Edmundson:

we're going to get into it.

Matt Edmundson:

Because there was a lot there.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, there was.

Matt Edmundson:

What's in your notes?

Matt Edmundson:

What's top of your notes?

Jan Burch:

What have I put in, just about how Christianity is

Jan Burch:

first and foremost, relational.

Jan Burch:

Yes.

Jan Burch:

It's not just an intellectual faith.

Matt Edmundson:

No, it's not a solo sport either, is it?

Matt Edmundson:

No, it's about people.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, it is totally about people.

Matt Edmundson:

And that's important because I think quite often society at the

Matt Edmundson:

moment is super isolated, isn't it?

Matt Edmundson:

Super, super, I don't know if you've noticed this in your job, Jen, actually.

Matt Edmundson:

But it's, I think it's so isolated at the moment and it's just

Matt Edmundson:

we've become conditioned to it.

Matt Edmundson:

Do you know what I mean?

Matt Edmundson:

And I think it's just not, it's not what God intended really.

Matt Edmundson:

No it's not that kind of isolated solo sport thing going on.

Matt Edmundson:

You need to be part of a team really, part of a community.

Matt Edmundson:

I think there's meaning in that, I think there's purpose in that, and I think it's

Matt Edmundson:

part of God's design is to be with people.

Matt Edmundson:

There's protection in that.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, which John talked about actually in his talk.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

So that whole protection side of things.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, so it is relational.

Matt Edmundson:

Christianity is relational.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

It's about being in a relationship with people.

Matt Edmundson:

What else have you got in there?

Jan Burch:

Just about how, When he walked, when Paul walked through life with others,

Jan Burch:

he was investing and choosing people to journey with, and I think sometimes we

Jan Burch:

can focus on our jobs, we can focus on our family primarily and not really pay

Jan Burch:

much attention to who we're journeying with outside of those relationships.

Jan Burch:

I think it's really important.

Jan Burch:

I remember Nick Harding once saying that you become like those you spend time with.

Jan Burch:

Yeah.

Jan Burch:

And that's so true, isn't it?

Jan Burch:

That we have to be intentional, I think about who we journey with.

Matt Edmundson:

What does, what do you, what does that

Matt Edmundson:

mean though, to be intentional?

Jan Burch:

I think choosing your friends I think what I mean by that is the people

Jan Burch:

that we trust with, with things with us, with our lives that we open up to that

Jan Burch:

we live beside and who we socialize with.

Jan Burch:

Yeah.

Jan Burch:

I think.

Jan Burch:

It's important that we are careful in that.

Jan Burch:

In, in work, actually, you can't choose those, your colleagues.

Jan Burch:

But out of work, I think you can.

Jan Burch:

And I think it's important to be with people who encourage, who are kind,

Jan Burch:

who are loving, and who are honest.

Jan Burch:

What do you

Matt Edmundson:

think, Matt?

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, I agree.

Matt Edmundson:

I think, we connect with all kinds of people, don't we?

Matt Edmundson:

Throughout our lifetime and we create close bonds and friendships with people.

Matt Edmundson:

And we journey through life together with them.

Matt Edmundson:

And I think for me, this whole intentionality thing I have a thing in

Matt Edmundson:

my diary like half an hour scheduled a couple of times a week where I'm

Matt Edmundson:

just like, during this time, reach out to, and I have a list of people

Matt Edmundson:

because if I don't connect with them and it might just be a simple text

Matt Edmundson:

or an email, like I might email Andy or I might send a text to Nicola or

Matt Edmundson:

whatever and go, Hey, how you doing?

Matt Edmundson:

Just checking in and it's just part of my routine where I have different

Matt Edmundson:

people and I have a little calendar reminder just to remind me, Oh, if

Matt Edmundson:

you've not heard from these people, just check in with them, connecting with

Matt Edmundson:

them for a little bit, because I think it's so easy to get disconnected from

Matt Edmundson:

people that we should stay connected.

Matt Edmundson:

With right.

Matt Edmundson:

I know Sharon does this, for example, with my mum, she's really good

Matt Edmundson:

at staying connected with my mum.

Matt Edmundson:

And she has a little calendar reminder to call my mum and say, howdy doody.

Matt Edmundson:

And I think there are people that we are friends with that to be intentional

Matt Edmundson:

in that relationship, whether it's a friendship, whether it's my marriage,

Matt Edmundson:

whether it's people at church, where actually I have to reach out

Matt Edmundson:

because it's easy not to do that.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

Do you know what I mean?

Matt Edmundson:

In the current world in which we live.

Jan Burch:

Definitely.

Jan Burch:

Yeah, definitely.

Jan Burch:

I I 100 percent agree.

Jan Burch:

And I think even if it means that we have to write things on a calendar to remind

Jan Burch:

ourselves then so be it, it's not that out of sight, out of mind, particularly, it's

Jan Burch:

just that our lives are so busy and, we just don't think about, or we don't always

Jan Burch:

make the effort to, it's not that we don't care, it's just, our lives are too busy.

Jan Burch:

So I think having reminders to do those things is

Matt Edmundson:

brilliant.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

I'll tell you, it works for me.

Matt Edmundson:

I'm not saying it's for everybody.

Matt Edmundson:

I'm just saying it works for me.

Matt Edmundson:

And I know there's, the past couple of days there's a family that I

Matt Edmundson:

know that's just been on my mind.

Matt Edmundson:

I've been praying for them.

Matt Edmundson:

And I keep thinking to myself, oh, I must give him a ring.

Matt Edmundson:

. You know what I mean?

Matt Edmundson:

I must give him a call and then something happens.

Matt Edmundson:

I know.

Matt Edmundson:

And it, and then I don't And it and you.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

And I can sit here and think actually, I've been saying that

Matt Edmundson:

to myself for the last few days.

Matt Edmundson:

And if I'm not careful, I won't do it.

Matt Edmundson:

So I have to make a note.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

To do that, right?

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

Who have you not reached out to recently?

Matt Edmundson:

Who do you need to connect with?

Matt Edmundson:

Just send a text message or an email or give him a ring.

Matt Edmundson:

To say, Hey, howdy doody.

Matt Edmundson:

It's great to connect with you.

Matt Edmundson:

I'm just checking in.

Matt Edmundson:

What are you saying to them?

Jan Burch:

Howdy doody.

Jan Burch:

What's that?

Matt Edmundson:

Do you not know the phrase?

Matt Edmundson:

Howdy doody?

Matt Edmundson:

Of course I do.

Matt Edmundson:

I just,

Jan Burch:

it's a very bizarre thing to say.

Jan Burch:

Howdy, if you said that to me, I'd be going.

Jan Burch:

Okay,

Matt Edmundson:

everybody text Jan, howdy doody, just do it randomly throughout

Matt Edmundson:

the week, just text Jan, howdy doody Jan.

Matt Edmundson:

Mental note to meself, text Jan, howdy doody.

Matt Edmundson:

Nicola's put here I think if it had not been for church community,

Matt Edmundson:

I don't think I'd be here anymore.

Matt Edmundson:

Now this is another, this is a part of what John Harding was talking about

Matt Edmundson:

in terms of encouragement, right?

Matt Edmundson:

It's one thing to connect with people and to actually, make that a habit in

Matt Edmundson:

whatever way works for you, say for me, the calendar appointments, but

Matt Edmundson:

in a way that is encouraging, right?

Matt Edmundson:

So I have this challenge, that I give people all the time and I think it's a

Matt Edmundson:

really good challenge to have because we have become, I think John touched

Matt Edmundson:

on this actually, Christianity has become quite consumer led, hasn't it?

Matt Edmundson:

In the sense that, yeah, church has to give me whatever

Matt Edmundson:

it is I want out of church.

Matt Edmundson:

And if it's not giving me whatever I want, I'm off because, that's

Matt Edmundson:

not what church is all about.

Matt Edmundson:

It's all about making me happy.

Matt Edmundson:

I need to feel a certain thing and you need to give me great teaching.

Matt Edmundson:

You need to.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

And it's, there's an element of you need to get fed in

Matt Edmundson:

church and I appreciate that.

Matt Edmundson:

But in Hebrews, if I read it correctly church is more about what you give.

Matt Edmundson:

And specifically, Paul talks Thessalonians, John talked

Matt Edmundson:

about it's day from the talk.

Matt Edmundson:

Who can you encourage and that.

Matt Edmundson:

Desire that understanding that whenever I work in, walk into the

Matt Edmundson:

church building, regardless of what I'm going through, in some respects

Matt Edmundson:

And it's not, there are times, don't get me wrong, there are seasons

Matt Edmundson:

when you want to go to church, you want to connect with God.

Matt Edmundson:

And you want to hear from God, right?

Matt Edmundson:

. And you do.

Matt Edmundson:

And you want to know what's going on.

Matt Edmundson:

And I think that's super, super important.

Matt Edmundson:

But nine times out of 10, actually going to church is about encouraging

Matt Edmundson:

those in the church building.

Matt Edmundson:

And just how different would church be if we just went with a mindset

Matt Edmundson:

that says, God, help me encourage people today when I go to church.

Matt Edmundson:

Who can I find and encourage?

Jan Burch:

Do you know what I mean?

Jan Burch:

Absolutely.

Jan Burch:

Yeah.

Jan Burch:

I'm a, I love encouraging people.

Jan Burch:

You're very good

Matt Edmundson:

at it, Jen.

Matt Edmundson:

Do you think?

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, I think you're great to be around.

Matt Edmundson:

Oh, thank you.

Matt Edmundson:

And I think people always feel loved up and encouraged when they're around you.

Matt Edmundson:

That's a nice thing to

Jan Burch:

say.

Jan Burch:

Thank

Matt Edmundson:

you.

Matt Edmundson:

Because you have this really cool sense of humor, right?

Matt Edmundson:

And and if you don't know Jen, and you don't know Jen's sense of humor,

Matt Edmundson:

sometimes, People just think you're being totally serious and she's just,

Matt Edmundson:

like the how do you do dee what.

Matt Edmundson:

iT's just really funny.

Matt Edmundson:

But I think at the same time, you're also super encouraging.

Matt Edmundson:

Oh, thank you.

Matt Edmundson:

And I think you always come, it's like today you came and you said, Oh, I was

Matt Edmundson:

listening to Sharon's What's the Story and she was great because of this.

Matt Edmundson:

You didn't have to say that, but it's just, it's an encouraging thing to hear.

Matt Edmundson:

So I think you are naturally quite encouraging.

Matt Edmundson:

I don't know if it's intentional.

Jan Burch:

A bit of both.

Jan Burch:

Yeah, I really like doing it.

Jan Burch:

Because I don't think there's enough encouragement in the world.

Jan Burch:

No.

Jan Burch:

But yeah, it is the one thing that's very nice.

Jan Burch:

I just picked up on what John said as well.

Jan Burch:

I think when the world is telling us it's about number

Jan Burch:

one, it's about Self development.

Jan Burch:

It's about, making sure you're okay.

Jan Burch:

I think the opposite of that is, is kingdom values is it's about serving.

Jan Burch:

And actually I think when we take our eyes off ourselves, that's

Jan Burch:

when we get true true joy and.

Jan Burch:

depth and meaning and purpose in our relationships.

Jan Burch:

I think when you can give to someone else um, although it feels like it's hard

Jan Burch:

sometimes when you're tired or you're hurting or, you're feeling not great.

Jan Burch:

I think whenever we make the effort to serve or to help someone else.

Jan Burch:

God always blesses us, doesn't he?

Jan Burch:

Yeah, he does.

Jan Burch:

It's I remember, going various points to Africa, and Julie can relate to this,

Jan Burch:

going to India recently, that you go there thinking, oh, I'm gonna, we're

Jan Burch:

giving this and we're bringing the other.

Jan Burch:

Actually, you're always blessed so much more.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, you always take more out of it.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Jan Burch:

So yeah, it's good, more blessed to give than to receive.

Matt Edmundson:

That's an interesting, yeah, that's very true.

Matt Edmundson:

It's very true.

Matt Edmundson:

And I like this idea of what you said about serving, and actually it's the

Matt Edmundson:

exact opposite spirit of the culture in which we're in at the moment,

Matt Edmundson:

which I have to be honest with you.

Matt Edmundson:

I think is um, we're going to get into this actually in a couple of weeks.

Matt Edmundson:

I'm doing a talk on worldview.

Matt Edmundson:

So I'm going to get into this in a lot more depth.

Matt Edmundson:

But I, we live in a culture at the moment, which is so narcissistic in the

Matt Edmundson:

West, which is so based upon me, right?

Matt Edmundson:

So what do I mean by that?

Matt Edmundson:

In the sense that now it's got to the stage where if you do not agree with

Matt Edmundson:

me, and what I say may be inaccurate, it may be an untruth, but if you don't

Matt Edmundson:

agree with it, then not only are you intolerant and a bigot, You are wrong.

Matt Edmundson:

That's right.

Matt Edmundson:

And I talked about this with Tony in the talk we did on friendship,

Matt Edmundson:

which was a great conversation.

Matt Edmundson:

If you've not heard it, do check it out.

Matt Edmundson:

Actually friends, they are people that not only encourage you, but

Matt Edmundson:

encouraging you is not making you feel better about yourself, right?

Matt Edmundson:

Encouragement from a Christian perspective is, hey dude, this is what God says.

Matt Edmundson:

Let's understand what God's saying.

Matt Edmundson:

This is what God's got us for is let's pursue this with all our heart and

Matt Edmundson:

encourages in that right in the things of God and to know God and to understand God.

Matt Edmundson:

It's not necessarily about making us feel better about ourselves.

Matt Edmundson:

And so we've gone so far down this path now, which says, actually, I am so right.

Matt Edmundson:

And I am so it's all about me that if you don't agree with me, then

Matt Edmundson:

Everything about you is wrong.

Matt Edmundson:

That's right.

Matt Edmundson:

And we're gonna close the door.

Matt Edmundson:

And, the whole cancel culture came outta that, didn't it?

Matt Edmundson:

And I think

Jan Burch:

is People take fence, don't they?

Jan Burch:

Oh, they do.

Jan Burch:

They do.

Jan Burch:

I think offense is a real, it's so toxic, isn't it?

Jan Burch:

, I've been on the other end of offending people various times of my

Jan Burch:

life, and it's really quite shocking.

Jan Burch:

It's very unpleasant And, I just think, again, I remember one of someone

Jan Burch:

talking at Frontline a few years ago saying, we have a choice whether we take

Jan Burch:

offense or not, just because someone disagrees with us or like you just

Jan Burch:

said, Matt, don't have the same opinion.

Jan Burch:

You have a choice there and then whether you're offended by that.

Jan Burch:

And, It's just about growing up a little bit, I think.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, it's about, it's like you say, it's about

Matt Edmundson:

not being so focused on self.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

And it's not being so focused on me and my rights, it's not so focused

Matt Edmundson:

on that, it's more about serving.

Matt Edmundson:

It's about understanding the person in front of you and

Matt Edmundson:

going, how can I bless you?

Matt Edmundson:

How can I encourage you?

Matt Edmundson:

How can I serve you?

Matt Edmundson:

Rather than, how can you serve me?

Matt Edmundson:

How can you edify me?

Matt Edmundson:

How do you make me feel better about myself?

Matt Edmundson:

It's, Christianity I think is the opposite spirit.

Matt Edmundson:

And part of the time, to be fair, Christians haven't

Matt Edmundson:

been great at doing that.

Matt Edmundson:

We've been great at disagreeing with people but we've not been

Matt Edmundson:

great at encouraging people.

Matt Edmundson:

And I think I think it's a real shame, I really do.

Matt Edmundson:

And so yeah, serve and encouragement, in fact, encouragement and

Matt Edmundson:

serving go hand in hand.

Matt Edmundson:

Serving is one way to encourage people.

Matt Edmundson:

Nicola's very good at that, although she's put wine or gin in the comments.

Matt Edmundson:

I'm not quite sure that's a glass of wine, red.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, it's a bit too early for a gin and tonic, uh, in England anyway.

Matt Edmundson:

I don't know if that answers your question.

Matt Edmundson:

Random question in the comments.

Matt Edmundson:

But yes.

Matt Edmundson:

One of the things that John put my glasses on now so I can read my notes,

Matt Edmundson:

I'm going to do that thing that Jan does, just have them on the end of my nose,

Matt Edmundson:

just look over the glasses very superior of me um, so yes, so the speech audit.

Matt Edmundson:

Oh, yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

I thought that was an interesting idea.

Matt Edmundson:

Doing an audit of how you talk to people.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, I know.

Jan Burch:

It's fascinating.

Jan Burch:

Yeah, it is, I think it, I don't think it would go well for me.

Matt Edmundson:

I think it would.

Matt Edmundson:

I think it would.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

There's there's a really interesting app called Otter.

Matt Edmundson:

Now, they do not sponsor Crowd Church, let me just be totally clear.

Matt Edmundson:

Otter is a transcription service.

Matt Edmundson:

Oh yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

Okay.

Matt Edmundson:

And I have it on my phone.

Matt Edmundson:

I have it on my computer and with work, one of the things that I do whenever

Matt Edmundson:

I have a meeting, like a zoom call or a, this, a few of us chat, and I'll

Matt Edmundson:

put the phone down or I'll turn the, and I will record that conversation.

Matt Edmundson:

Right, and Otter will transcribe that conversation and so it will say, these,

Matt Edmundson:

and it's great because it then goes through and it summarizes what was said

Matt Edmundson:

and it draws out the action points, which in, yeah, work is a beautiful

Matt Edmundson:

thing because I'm rubbish at taking notes when I'm engrossed in a conversation.

Matt Edmundson:

And I, one of the reason I'm telling you this is one of the things that

Matt Edmundson:

Otter does, which utterly fascinates me.

Matt Edmundson:

Is it tells you the percentage of that conversation that you have spoken for?

Matt Edmundson:

Really?

Matt Edmundson:

So if you and I had a conversation and it recorded it, it would

Matt Edmundson:

say, Matt, you spoke 70%.

Matt Edmundson:

70%.

Matt Edmundson:

And you, Jan, spoke 30%.

Matt Edmundson:

And that has become really interesting to help me understand in a conversation

Matt Edmundson:

how much I actually take up and not giving space to the other person's talk.

Jan Burch:

It's not always that you don't I'm not talking about you personally, but

Jan Burch:

it's not always about taking up space.

Jan Burch:

I think sometimes people, need to give a bit more, don't they?

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, they do.

Matt Edmundson:

They do.

Matt Edmundson:

But

Jan Burch:

yeah, that's really interesting.

Jan Burch:

I tell

Matt Edmundson:

you what was fascinating was, The numbers next to people

Matt Edmundson:

were not what I expected them to be.

Matt Edmundson:

So you should download the app, and just record the conversations

Matt Edmundson:

that you have, obviously with the permission of the people.

Matt Edmundson:

Is it free?

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

Really?

Matt Edmundson:

I think there's a paid version which we have because we use it so much.

Matt Edmundson:

But yeah, it's just this really interesting idea and just doing

Matt Edmundson:

this sort of speech audit.

Matt Edmundson:

So not only what I say.

Matt Edmundson:

But how much of the conversation I

Jan Burch:

take up.

Jan Burch:

Yeah, it's really interesting.

Jan Burch:

Yeah.

Jan Burch:

Fascinating.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

Really fascinating.

Matt Edmundson:

And so it's meant actually when I do different podcasts that I I tone down

Matt Edmundson:

the amount of, I'm, I'm actually aware of talking less and asking more questions.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

It's really, it's a really powerful tool.

Matt Edmundson:

Anyway, speech audit.

Matt Edmundson:

What would your speech audit come back at?

Matt Edmundson:

You know what I think the best thing to do here, Jan in the short term,

Matt Edmundson:

for me, I reckon if I went and asked Sharon, she'd tell me straight.

Matt Edmundson:

What?

Matt Edmundson:

spEech audit.

Matt Edmundson:

If I said to her, am I encouraging or discouraging?

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

Those people around you, those that you're journeying with life,

Matt Edmundson:

will be able to tell you whether you're encouraging or discouraging.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah,

Jan Burch:

definitely.

Jan Burch:

I think you're an encourager.

Jan Burch:

No, I don't.

Jan Burch:

Thank you.

Jan Burch:

Thank you.

Jan Burch:

I'm not

Matt Edmundson:

joking.

Matt Edmundson:

This is the Encourage Each Other Club tonight.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, so I thought that was a really good thing.

Matt Edmundson:

We still got more time, or?

Matt Edmundson:

We got plenty of time.

Matt Edmundson:

Is there something more you want to say?

Jan Burch:

I really liked what I thought the whole talk was great, but about the

Jan Burch:

importance of leading yourself first.

Jan Burch:

Oh, yes.

Jan Burch:

That a good leader has to lead themselves before they can lead.

Jan Burch:

Anyone else?

Jan Burch:

So I think that's talking about um, discipline, self discipline.

Jan Burch:

Yeah.

Jan Burch:

Basically not just, it's not do as I say, is it?

Jan Burch:

It's do as I do.

Jan Burch:

Yeah.

Jan Burch:

Do you know what I mean?

Jan Burch:

So you can't just get up on a Sunday and expect people to Follow your lead

Jan Burch:

if you're not living it yourself and,

Matt Edmundson:

Do you know where I've figured this out the

Matt Edmundson:

most, or seen this the most?

Matt Edmundson:

It's having kids.

Matt Edmundson:

Okay.

Matt Edmundson:

In the sense that kids are brilliant at mirroring your actions.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

And that's a little bit eye opening, isn't it?

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

Have you found that?

Matt Edmundson:

Because you've got three great kids.

Jan Burch:

I think, yeah, def, oh, 100%, but I only realised that all their,

Jan Burch:

The bad things really did from Tim.

Jan Burch:

So all the good qualities clearly from me, obviously,

Matt Edmundson:

Obviously Tim's Jan's husband, by the way, if you don't

Jan Burch:

know.

Jan Burch:

Do you find that?

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, they get all their bad qualities from me and all

Matt Edmundson:

their good ones from from Sharon.

Matt Edmundson:

Definitely.

Matt Edmundson:

No.

Matt Edmundson:

But no, I think it's just really fascinating when you have kids that

Matt Edmundson:

Julie's put in the comments, by the way, you're a total encourager.

Matt Edmundson:

Ah,

Jan Burch:

thank you.

Jan Burch:

It might be you, she means.

Jan Burch:

I think it's definitely you.

Jan Burch:

Ah, thanks, Julie.

Jan Burch:

Oh, she's a great, speaks the truth.

Jan Burch:

Woman of truth.

Jan Burch:

She is.

Jan Burch:

Yeah.

Jan Burch:

Yeah, definitely.

Matt Edmundson:

But no, I think since having kids and seeing the

Matt Edmundson:

scenes, sometimes my kids act and understanding actually, they've

Matt Edmundson:

totally picked that up from me.

Matt Edmundson:

And you just go, Oh, maybe I need to change this.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

I was, I would do stupid things like I'm not great now, if I sat

Matt Edmundson:

at the table with the phone, the kids are going to think it's okay

Matt Edmundson:

to sit at the table with the phone.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

It's just what they do.

Matt Edmundson:

And so leading by example is the old, it's what they used to say, isn't it?

Matt Edmundson:

The old fashioned way, lead by example, we should do that.

Matt Edmundson:

buT it's really interesting because Paul said in scripture, didn't he?

Matt Edmundson:

He said, imitate me as I imitate Christ.

Matt Edmundson:

That's a pretty bold statement, isn't it?

Matt Edmundson:

I don't know if I've ever gone to people.

Matt Edmundson:

I don't actually know how people would respond to it.

Matt Edmundson:

If I just turn around to people and say no, copy me as I copy Jesus.

Matt Edmundson:

It's a pretty bold thing to say to folks, isn't it?

Matt Edmundson:

Because you've, I think you've got to be fairly sure that you're

Matt Edmundson:

copying Jesus in the right way.

Matt Edmundson:

I think I'm, I think I'm doing all right.

Matt Edmundson:

Don't get me wrong.

Matt Edmundson:

I don't think I'm perfect by any

Matt Edmundson:

way.

Matt Edmundson:

You then become aware of actually.

Matt Edmundson:

How you act, as well as what you say, right?

Matt Edmundson:

And I imagine this is especially true with what you do for work.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Jan Burch:

In what way of, what

Matt Edmundson:

do you mean?

Matt Edmundson:

I think you're in the public a lot.

Matt Edmundson:

You're in the community a lot.

Matt Edmundson:

And um, is it okay to tell people what you do?

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, sure.

Matt Edmundson:

So Jan is a community midwife.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

Not just a midwife.

Matt Edmundson:

A community midwife.

Matt Edmundson:

And so you get to see people at the most vulnerable, don't you, in a lot of ways

Matt Edmundson:

at a time when they're both really excited and quite petrified all at the same time.

Matt Edmundson:

And yeah that, that's what I mean in terms of, what you say and what you do,

Matt Edmundson:

I think becomes quite important because you can, I suppose if you say one thing

Matt Edmundson:

but act in another way, that's going to really, that could cause people to flap.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, I definitely feel like you don't care.

Jan Burch:

Yeah, absolutely.

Jan Burch:

It goes across the board.

Jan Burch:

In all our relationships that it goes back to what we said last week.

Jan Burch:

It's about integrity, isn't it?

Jan Burch:

I, I think, as a midwife, as a health professional, that I have to just focus on

Jan Burch:

what I'm doing on my patient, the patient.

Jan Burch:

That, I'm not thinking about myself but I'm thinking about how I can be the

Jan Burch:

best for them and give them the best care but if I was, not consistent

Jan Burch:

in that, then they would soon know and they would, women talk, women these days

Jan Burch:

either, they don't put up with much.

Jan Burch:

We'd soon know about it if they weren't happy, but yeah, no, I think it affects

Jan Burch:

all of us in all of our relationships.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, absolutely.

Matt Edmundson:

No, it does.

Matt Edmundson:

And I think just encouraging people.

Matt Edmundson:

I, Julie says here, you look lovely as well.

Matt Edmundson:

You've got it, you've got it all coming from

Jan Burch:

Julie.

Jan Burch:

Thank you, Julie.

Jan Burch:

Julie's always got lovely hair.

Jan Burch:

She's got good

Matt Edmundson:

hair.

Matt Edmundson:

Very good hair, Judy.

Matt Edmundson:

It's a very important thing to say.

Matt Edmundson:

Judy's got good hair.

Matt Edmundson:

Isaac says, I thank God for your blessing which is great.

Matt Edmundson:

Andy's put, WWJD.

Jan Burch:

What would Jesus do with me?

Jan Burch:

Does it mean me?

Jan Burch:

What would John do?

Jan Burch:

I,

Matt Edmundson:

we could go either way.

Jan Burch:

Julie says, yeah, I have got good hair.

Jan Burch:

Yeah, we know Julie, it's always immaculate and shiny.

Jan Burch:

Always

Matt Edmundson:

immaculate and shiny.

Matt Edmundson:

Yes, no very beautiful hair.

Matt Edmundson:

It's extraordinary.

Matt Edmundson:

What would Jesus do?

Matt Edmundson:

What would Jan do?

Matt Edmundson:

Two great questions to ask in life.

Matt Edmundson:

Do you know what?

Matt Edmundson:

I was doing a a business event in the land down under.

Matt Edmundson:

I was in New Zealand, right?

Matt Edmundson:

I was speaking at an event down there.

Matt Edmundson:

I don't know, there's a couple hundred people at the event.

Matt Edmundson:

And I was doing this business conference type thing down there.

Matt Edmundson:

And I was speaking at that.

Matt Edmundson:

And I was talking about this The phenomenon at the time of the

Matt Edmundson:

WWJD, the bands where you used to get WWJD, what did Jesus do?

Matt Edmundson:

And they just said WWJD.

Matt Edmundson:

No one in New Zealand knew what I was talking about.

Matt Edmundson:

Really?

Matt Edmundson:

Really surprised me.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, I was like, oh, goodness me.

Matt Edmundson:

There goes that whole talk, I had to rethink something.

Matt Edmundson:

Ha!

Matt Edmundson:

Slap, there it is.

Matt Edmundson:

But WWJD.

Jan Burch:

They do say New Zealand's about 20 years behind, don't they?

Jan Burch:

No,

Matt Edmundson:

don't say that.

Matt Edmundson:

They do.

Matt Edmundson:

No, they don't.

Matt Edmundson:

New Zealand's awesome, I love New Zealand.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, what would Jesus do?

Matt Edmundson:

Is a great question to ask yourself.

Matt Edmundson:

Good question there, Andy, what would Jesus do?

Matt Edmundson:

That's a good, that whole imitate me as I imitate Jesus.

Matt Edmundson:

That's it, absolutely.

Matt Edmundson:

Thinking about what would Jesus do.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

Anything else in the last minutes, Jan, from your notes

Matt Edmundson:

you want to desperately talk

Jan Burch:

about?

Jan Burch:

Just can't ignore the fact that John used the word reflex.

Jan Burch:

Because in all of his talks, which, it's a good thing.

Jan Burch:

It is a good

Matt Edmundson:

thing.

Matt Edmundson:

John has even written a book, hasn't he, called Reflex.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, he has indeed.

Matt Edmundson:

I'm surprised, actually, he didn't show a copy on screening.

Matt Edmundson:

You can find out more about Reflex from my book.

Matt Edmundson:

It is a good book.

Matt Edmundson:

Reflex, do you

Jan Burch:

remember that song?

Jan Burch:

Duran.

Jan Burch:

Yeah, I was, I am a Durani, or used to be.

Jan Burch:

I'm a

Matt Edmundson:

Durani.

Matt Edmundson:

Did you ever go to a Duran concert?

Matt Edmundson:

Oh yeah, of course.

Matt Edmundson:

How many did you go?

Matt Edmundson:

Were you a groupie?

Jan Burch:

I would have liked to have been, but I was

Jan Burch:

about 14 when they were out.

Jan Burch:

Okay.

Jan Burch:

But I did bunk off school once to go and see them.

Jan Burch:

Yeah, so let's come in now.

Jan Burch:

They do know what they did now, but no, it was the only time I ever did

Matt Edmundson:

it.

Matt Edmundson:

So as we're talking about Imitate Me as I imitate Christ, and as we're

Matt Edmundson:

talking about how kids imitate their parents, I think, Kerish, you've

Matt Edmundson:

just got license there to bunk off school and go to any kind of concert.

Matt Edmundson:

You

Jan Burch:

haven't, none of you have.

Matt Edmundson:

If your kids are watching, you're in so much danger.

Jan Burch:

Indeed.

Matt Edmundson:

It's just very funny.

Matt Edmundson:

Very funny indeed.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, Duran.

Matt Edmundson:

What legends they were.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

Defined an era.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, they did define an era.

Matt Edmundson:

So if you're just joining us, welcome to Matt and Jen talk about Duran.

Matt Edmundson:

The 1980s.

Matt Edmundson:

Actually no the reflexion and it's, uh, the way John talks about it is

Matt Edmundson:

very much, it's like our default.

Matt Edmundson:

It's our way of responding, our way of acting and what our default response

Matt Edmundson:

should be hopefully as we become more and more mature in our walk with

Matt Edmundson:

Christ, it should become more and more like that, shouldn't it really?

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, in theory.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, absolutely.

Matt Edmundson:

So yes and then obviously lead yourself well first.

Matt Edmundson:

I thought that was a great phrase.

Matt Edmundson:

You mentioned that earlier about the first level of leadership,

Matt Edmundson:

lead yourself well first.

Matt Edmundson:

And for me, John picked on the fact that we are now, we've, as a church,

Matt Edmundson:

there's been a lot of books recently in Christianity about doing Sabbath,

Matt Edmundson:

and we've taken it from one extreme to another, because that's what Christians

Matt Edmundson:

do, we like to swing the pendulum.

Matt Edmundson:

And he drew attention to that, leading yourself well.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, I think actually involves more self discipline than anything else.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, I think so.

Matt Edmundson:

Do you know what I mean?

Matt Edmundson:

And I think one of the fruits of the Spirit is self control.

Matt Edmundson:

Not something we talk about that often, but it is.

Matt Edmundson:

And actually leading yourself well is Being very self controlled I've got a

Matt Edmundson:

finite amount of time, I'm going to spend it this way, I'm going to be intentional

Matt Edmundson:

in these relationships, so if you're married, I'm going to be intentional in

Matt Edmundson:

my marriage, if I have kids, I'm going to be intentional with my kids, my friends,

Matt Edmundson:

I'm going to be intentional there, I'm going to go to church, I'm going to

Matt Edmundson:

encourage the socks off everybody that I meet, I'm going to pray for them, I'm

Matt Edmundson:

going to have a, hopefully seek God and try and get a word for, some of them.

Matt Edmundson:

That's what I think leading yourself well.

Matt Edmundson:

It's all about

Jan Burch:

us.

Jan Burch:

That's amazing.

Jan Burch:

Yeah.

Jan Burch:

I love that.

Jan Burch:

You sounded like you were going to say something.

Jan Burch:

No, I was just thinking, how great is that,

Matt Edmundson:

how different church would look like if we actually did that.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

And our workplaces.

Jan Burch:

You've talked before about, not being, and you've

Jan Burch:

mentioned it again this evening.

Jan Burch:

We're not, we shouldn't be consumers, should we?

Jan Burch:

We are givers, really, we should be giving.

Jan Burch:

And what are people learning from our lives?

Jan Burch:

It's self reflection is good.

Jan Burch:

Just totally focusing on self isn't.

Jan Burch:

But I think when we take our eyes off ourselves onto Jesus then I

Jan Burch:

think we, real happiness, real peace comes from that, doesn't it?

Jan Burch:

And we can build proper relationships.

Jan Burch:

It's not just all about how you're feeling.

Jan Burch:

yOu know what you're getting out of it.

Jan Burch:

Yeah,

Matt Edmundson:

very good.

Matt Edmundson:

I think it's very true.

Matt Edmundson:

Seeing yourself through the lens of Jesus is quite important, really.

Matt Edmundson:

Through the eyes of Jesus.

Matt Edmundson:

So no, it's super, super cool.

Matt Edmundson:

Let me tell you from my notes here, what's coming up next week.

Matt Edmundson:

I'm just going to click on it and find out because I don't actually know.

Matt Edmundson:

You talk for a sec, John, while I figure it out.

Matt Edmundson:

'cause I should have checked this before.

Jan Burch:

No, I just yeah.

Jan Burch:

Thank you for for John bringing that word.

Jan Burch:

I like the little pictures as well.

Jan Burch:

The graphics that written.

Jan Burch:

Oh yeah.

Jan Burch:

Tanya Between, that was really good.

Jan Burch:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

Tanya's getting on with a video editing.

Matt Edmundson:

That was Tanya who edits the video.

Matt Edmundson:

She's the legend.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, that was very good.

Matt Edmundson:

She's the legend.

Matt Edmundson:

So next week.

Matt Edmundson:

You have got Dan Orange.

Matt Edmundson:

In this chair, he is doing hosting along.

Matt Edmundson:

John Harding will be next week in that chair.

Matt Edmundson:

And apparently Anna Kettle is speaking.

Matt Edmundson:

Anna, looking forward to hearing what you've got to say.

Matt Edmundson:

Next week, I'm actually going to be in Paris.

Matt Edmundson:

Who with?

Matt Edmundson:

My wife.

Matt Edmundson:

We've been married for 25 years and finally we get to go away and celebrate.

Matt Edmundson:

And Sharon's never actually been to Paris.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, I was shocked too when I read it.

Matt Edmundson:

Mais

Jan Burch:

non.

Jan Burch:

Mais non.

Jan Burch:

Mais non.

Jan Burch:

Paris is, I love Paris.

Jan Burch:

Do you like it?

Matt Edmundson:

Beautiful.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson:

Paris.

Jan Burch:

Oh, have a

Matt Edmundson:

wonderful time.

Matt Edmundson:

Yeah, I'll be tuning in to Crowd from the streets of Paris

Matt Edmundson:

next week, so wherever you are.

Matt Edmundson:

Oulala.

Jan Burch:

Oulala.

Jan Burch:

Sometimes

Matt Edmundson:

they're just no words, are they really?

Matt Edmundson:

Ooh la.

John Harding:

Ooh

Matt Edmundson:

La.

Matt Edmundson:

Excellent.

Matt Edmundson:

Let's get some control back.

Matt Edmundson:

Now, if you haven't done so already, head over to the website, www.

Matt Edmundson:

crowd.

Matt Edmundson:

church or onto social media at crowdchurch.

Matt Edmundson:

And connect with us through that.

Matt Edmundson:

Make sure you sign up to the email as well.

Matt Edmundson:

That goes out every week.

Matt Edmundson:

That's on there.

Matt Edmundson:

Any prayer requests that you would like to send through please do

Matt Edmundson:

send them by email, send them by social media, or via WhatsApp.

Matt Edmundson:

The number is on the website.

Matt Edmundson:

They go through to the prayer team.

Matt Edmundson:

Do send those through.

Matt Edmundson:

Be great to hear from you.

Matt Edmundson:

We do love to pray for people.

Matt Edmundson:

Make sure you like and subscribe to Crowd Church wherever you.

Matt Edmundson:

Consume content, whether it's on Facebook or YouTube or however you do it, it's

Matt Edmundson:

been great to be with you this week.

Matt Edmundson:

Any final words from you, Miss Jan?

Jan Burch:

Nope, just have a wonderful week and yeah, just pray that, that we all

Jan Burch:

really make a note of what are we saying to other people when we're living our

Jan Burch:

lives, when we're going about our everyday life, what are people learning from us,

Jan Burch:

and try and encourage someone this week.

Jan Burch:

Be intentional about encouraging wherever you

Matt Edmundson:

are.

Matt Edmundson:

Very good.

Matt Edmundson:

Be intentional about encouraging wherever you are.

Matt Edmundson:

Top tip.

Matt Edmundson:

And on that bombshell I will bid you or we will bid you adieu.

Matt Edmundson:

Have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world.

Matt Edmundson:

Thanks for joining us.

Matt Edmundson:

Thanks for all your comments.

Matt Edmundson:

Au revoir.

Matt Edmundson:

Au revoir.

Matt Edmundson:

I'm practicing my French.

Matt Edmundson:

Oh la.

Matt Edmundson:

Anyway, see you next time.

Matt Edmundson:

That's it for us.

Matt Edmundson:

Bless you guys.

Matt Edmundson:

Bye.

Matt Edmundson:

Bye.

Matt Edmundson:

Bye.

Matt Edmundson:

Thank you so much for joining us here on Crowd Church.

Matt Edmundson:

Now, if you are watching on YouTube, make sure you hit the subscribe button as well

Matt Edmundson:

as that little tiny bell notification to get notified the next time we are live.

Matt Edmundson:

And of course, if you are listening to the podcast, the live stream podcast,

Matt Edmundson:

make sure you also hit Now, by smashing the like button on YouTube, or writing a

Matt Edmundson:

review on your podcast platform, it helps us reach more people with the message

Matt Edmundson:

that Jesus really does help us live a more meaningful and purposeful life.

Matt Edmundson:

So if you haven't done so already, Be sure to check out our website www.

Matt Edmundson:

crowd.

Matt Edmundson:

church where you can learn more about us as a church, more about

Matt Edmundson:

the Christian faith and also how to connect into our church community.

Matt Edmundson:

It has been awesome to connect with you and you are awesome.

Matt Edmundson:

It's just a burden you have to bear and hopefully we'll see you next time.

Matt Edmundson:

That's it from us.

Matt Edmundson:

God bless you.

Matt Edmundson:

Bye for now.

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