In part 2 of the Scarlet True Crime Podcast about Dennis Rader, the BTK killer, the Ladies of Scarlet discuss the 9th and final victim of Dennis Rader, his time in hibernation and ultimate capture.

Dennis Rader, community man, family man, church leader, loving father, and one of America's foremost serial killers. By the monicker Bind Torture Kill, BTK committed his final, and probably laziest murder in 1991. Then, for 13 years Dennis Rader went underground and put a halt to his killing spree, or so it seems, until his tremendous hubris was his final undoing. Listen to the finale of Scarlet TCP, BTK Killer | Dennis Rader everywhere podcasts are available.

This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

Chartable - https://chartable.com/privacy

Brittney Sherman: 00:00:40

Hey, Scarlett autos.

Brittney Sherman: 00:00:42

We are back for part two of Dennis Rader, the BTK killer,

Brittney Sherman: 00:00:48

and you are joining us now.

Brittney Sherman: 00:00:50

Thanks for listening, but we highly recommend you go back and listen

Brittney Sherman: 00:00:55

to part one to hear about Dennis Raider's early life and his peak as

Brittney Sherman: 00:01:02

the BTK killer Sonia, you want to get.

Brittney Sherman: 00:01:06

A little preview of what some of our listeners may have missed in part

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:01:10

one.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:01:11

Uh, well, we talked about all of the murder.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:01:16

Uh, essentially that happened, uh, prior to murder number

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:01:20

nine, which is Vicky Weatherly.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:01:23

Now I'm sure you guys know Dennis Rader was BTK or sort of

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:01:28

pronounced himself BTK, which is the acronym for bind, torture kill.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:01:32

He killed 10 people between 1974 and 1991.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:01:36

So current day where we left off, we were talking about Vicki Lynn Weatherly.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:01:43

And this was a murder that occurred on September 16th, 1986.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:01:49

And Vicki when Julie was 28 years old, not

Brittney Sherman: 00:01:53

only was she 28, like many of his victims, tragically,

Brittney Sherman: 00:01:57

she was also a mother of two.

Brittney Sherman: 00:02:00

And, um, it was.

Brittney Sherman: 00:02:03

Her beauty and her attention to her kids that first caught Dennis

Brittney Sherman: 00:02:09

his eye as he began to stalk her.

Brittney Sherman: 00:02:12

Like he did most of his victims before attacking almost like I kept imagining in

Brittney Sherman: 00:02:19

my head and it's a terrible imagination, but like a Viper sucking its victim

Brittney Sherman: 00:02:24

before it lashes out at attacks.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:02:28

So

Brittney Sherman: 00:02:29

he.

Brittney Sherman: 00:02:31

As emo has shown us so far on September 16th, he posed as a telephone repair man.

Brittney Sherman: 00:02:40

Like we have seen many times before that was a very popular thing for the

Brittney Sherman: 00:02:44

Boston strangler to do, go check out that episode and he cut the telephone wires.

Brittney Sherman: 00:02:50

Like he had done many, many times.

Brittney Sherman: 00:02:54

You want to take it from here on this tragic events, leading up to Vicky.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:03:00

Well, let's talk a little bit about his trolling as he called it.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:03:04

And then he stocking that ensued when he plans on, on, on his, you

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:03:10

know, essentially what he called his project, his projects and Vicky

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:03:14

wedge, really in particularly he referred to her as the PJ project.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:03:18

Apparently, as you said, Vicky really caught Dennis Raiders.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:03:22

I.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:03:24

He said that he would walk by her house during the day to

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:03:27

listen to her, play the piano

Brittney Sherman: 00:03:30

in a weird way.

Brittney Sherman: 00:03:31

That's kind of a sweet, creepy it's disturbing, but it's kind of

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:03:36

sweet.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:03:37

I would not be playing the piano in the day anymore.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:03:39

I mean, think about like, just sort of step out of that bat

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:03:43

out of that for a second sort of step out of that for a second.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:03:48

C an innocent situation where you have people walking by your house, you know,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:03:54

maybe they hear you play music and maybe they're like, oh, that's lovely.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:03:57

But to think that there's a serial killer walking right outside of

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:04:00

your house, listening to your music that you're playing and becoming

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:04:04

infatuated before you, you are.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:04:06

Yeah, no, no, of

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:04:07

course

Brittney Sherman: 00:04:07

that's terrible.

Brittney Sherman: 00:04:08

He's a serial killer.

Brittney Sherman: 00:04:09

But like, if it was just like a normal person that enjoyed listening to

Brittney Sherman: 00:04:13

someone, like my neighbor plays the PM.

Brittney Sherman: 00:04:16

Sometimes better than other times, but when he's playing it, well,

Brittney Sherman: 00:04:20

I quite enjoy listening to it.

Brittney Sherman: 00:04:22

It's

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:04:23

nice respite.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:04:25

Yeah, no, I get it in the normal world.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:04:27

That would be lovely.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:04:28

But in my brain with, in serial killer world,

Brittney Sherman: 00:04:33

what we feel about him.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:04:36

Well, but doesn't, I mean, to me, this makes me question

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:04:39

everyone, you know, unfortunately, because there are so many criminals out there

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:04:43

in the world and we talk about them so frequently, you know, you start to get a

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:04:46

little, you know, sort of curious about people who may or may not be around

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:04:52

you all the time, who you think are.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:04:54

Incapable of crimes like these, that clearly are.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:04:57

So I guess that's what I was saying is the most disturbing part.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:05:00

It's disturbing to think how close he was to her, how

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:05:03

frequently he was close to her.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:05:05

And how, I mean, he obviously studied this for quite a while.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:05:08

So as you said, you know, he dressed up as a telephone repairman.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:05:13

He went to her door.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:05:14

He.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:05:15

He, he, he kind of like styled this situation.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:05:18

Like he was walking from one house to another checking on all of them.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:05:22

Um, and so that's what the impression was that he gave her was that he

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:05:25

was checking everyone's lines.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:05:27

So, you know, again, at gunpoint, he goes into the bedroom, he ties her up,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:05:33

um, you know, She guess fought with him, causing him scratches and cuts.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:05:40

You know, what's really interesting too, is I'd be wondering if Dennis Raiders kids

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:05:44

ever wondered why he had scratches and cuts if this happened on occasion, because

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:05:48

I think there was another occasion in one of these murders where someone had also

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:05:51

scratched him naturally or maybe got him.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:05:54

So he gets a rope, you know, and he starts choking her to death.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:05:58

Um, again, He starts, he took photos of her in the different positions, you know,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:06:05

sort of similar to what he had done.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:06:07

Yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:06:08

Similar what he'd done before with the, the bondage positions,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:06:11

here's where it gets crappy.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:06:13

Or this woman has a husband and she's got a toddler in the other room.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:06:19

He toddlers too.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:06:21

So of course this is ours, you know, later I'm sure.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:06:28

Um, but what's real, you know, Dennis Rader wynand it looks like Dennis

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:06:32

Rader went into the house at 10:00 AM.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:06:34

Sounds like the husband was coming home hours later.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:06:37

Um, and this is what's crazy.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:06:39

Oh, go ahead.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:06:40

Go ahead.

Brittney Sherman: 00:06:41

Well, it was, I actually don't think it was that much

Brittney Sherman: 00:06:44

later because Dennis actually stole Vicki's car in her husband, saw the

Brittney Sherman: 00:06:53

car driving in the opposite direction.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:06:55

Exactly.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:06:56

But that all depends on if I'm when time bill, bill wedge, really,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:06:59

essentially the husband was driving home.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:07:01

So there was time between when he, she was there alone with a toddler, right.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:07:05

It sound like some time has passed because he walks into the house and he's like,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:07:09

you know, obviously, depending upon where she was, how long was she gone?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:07:14

And then how long this toddler been alone.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:07:16

So it was like, what the heck?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:07:17

And it sounds like you took a little time to figure out where the, where

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:07:19

the, where the toddler was as well.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:07:21

So pretty terrifying.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:07:24

Um, he what's really sad about the situation is, as you said, you know, he

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:07:28

sees Dennis Rader who apparently looks like every other white dude drive by.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:07:33

And, um, he, I think that he sees Dennis driving his wife's car.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:07:38

Yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:07:38

That's what I

Brittney Sherman: 00:07:38

mean, he saw, again, it's driving his wife's car

Brittney Sherman: 00:07:41

going in the opposite direction,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:07:43

but don't you think that's kind of weird though that,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:07:45

uh, you know, like, wouldn't you be.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:07:48

I mean, who's that guy, you know, if you don't see

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:07:51

the

Brittney Sherman: 00:07:51

person driving, he might just be like, oh my wife's going out to

Brittney Sherman: 00:07:54

get groceries, but then you get home and you see at the toddler and the wife's

Brittney Sherman: 00:07:57

gone, then you know, something's up.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:07:59

But he said, he saw Dennis sitting in the seat and driving.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:08:02

He said he saw it.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:08:02

He's the new he saw, oh,

Brittney Sherman: 00:08:04

that's this?

Brittney Sherman: 00:08:05

Oh, I didn't realize that

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:08:06

part.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:08:07

That's terrible.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:08:07

I saw a tall man in that seat.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:08:09

And by the way, I'm going to correct myself because he says a tall man.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:08:12

And I guess, I don't know.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:08:13

I don't remember how tall Dennis Rader was, but he wasn't.

Brittney Sherman: 00:08:16

I think the guy.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:08:18

Well, he, he calls him a tall man, and, but he couldn't have been

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:08:22

that tall because I always heard that he was between like five, eight and five.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:08:25

Maybe he was, he was described between five, eight and five 10.

Brittney Sherman: 00:08:28

I think that I, I thought I heard at one

Brittney Sherman: 00:08:29

point, someone described him as being six foot, but I mean, sure.

Brittney Sherman: 00:08:34

If you see from a distance or something, you don't notice 5, 10, 6 foot, not a big

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:08:37

difference.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:08:40

But difference between five, eight and six, six foot.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:08:42

Definitely.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:08:43

Yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:08:43

No.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:08:44

So perplexing, um, cause most people who were over sort of five, 10, you there's

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:08:49

distinguishable because the average was much shorter than that, but yeah,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:08:52

essentially bill saw his wiping driven away by her murder and um, then later.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:08:58

He's accused of it because he can't, you know, I mean the tests for where

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:09:02

he was during her murder, because it happened, you know, probably not so long.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:09:06

What, what we don't know is how long Dennis spends with his people, with his

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:09:11

murder, his victims, because he spent time with her taking photos of her.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:09:15

So if, if he went to her house at 10:00 AM, however long it took to murder

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:09:19

her and then take all these photos.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:09:22

We don't know what was crazy about this situation is I feel like that

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:09:26

this is when this is the murder where Dennis starts getting sloppy.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:09:30

Um, maybe he's not planted out as much, even though we, we, it says

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:09:35

clearly that he or he says he did.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:09:37

But maybe it's just a simply the arrogance, but he leaves to me at least

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:09:41

too much to chance, you know, he wasn't, he totally, how would he, how does he

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:09:44

not know that his, her, you know, the husband's coming home, like everybody

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:09:48

knows everybody's schedule and I'm in, if I'm not mistaken, Vicky is telling you.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:09:53

You know, my husband is coming home.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:09:55

My husband is coming home and he realizes he doesn't have much time, but he takes

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:09:58

him that he has enough time to take photos of her in bondage positions,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:10:01

you know, just defiling her is awful.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:10:05

So yeah, that's ultimately the Vicky Wagerly situation and.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:10:11

Again, for a number of years, her poor husband not only had to

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:10:16

deal with the death of her, but he was accused of her murder.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:10:19

And I think it was almost 20 years later that they, that BTK finally

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:10:23

wrote a letter to the police or to the newspaper telling them.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:10:27

And here's what they did.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:10:29

Here's what he did because he's such a Dick.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:10:32

He sent her for her driver's license, a copy of her driver's license and a picture

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:10:37

of her drawn in the position that he had left her, which was of course me clearly

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:10:43

that he was the person, the perpetrator, because no one else would have had that

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:10:46

information, but that was 20 years.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:10:47

Almost 20 years later, this poor guy would go under this terrible.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:10:53

I mean, that's that's yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:10:55

Um, so no, I know, side note, a side note for that.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:10:59

Um, but yeah, that was, uh, Vicki Wagerly.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:11:02

She was 28 when she died and she was another victim that was strangled.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:11:06

So now we've got BTK back on the prowl, you know, he he's out there.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:11:11

He's previous murder, April 27th, 1985 Marine hedge.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:11:16

And now, you know what, almost Raleigh a year later, a

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:11:20

little more than a year later.

Brittney Sherman: 00:11:23

Isn't it like six months or so later.

Brittney Sherman: 00:11:25

It's not that long.

Brittney Sherman: 00:11:26

I didn't think

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:11:27

it's April 27th was a, for 85 was Marine hedge and he

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:11:32

didn't kill again until September

Brittney Sherman: 00:11:33

16th.

Brittney Sherman: 00:11:34

You're right.

Brittney Sherman: 00:11:34

You're right.

Brittney Sherman: 00:11:34

You're right.

Brittney Sherman: 00:11:35

So it was like a year and a half year.

Brittney Sherman: 00:11:36

I was thinking that Marine was later in the year.

Brittney Sherman: 00:11:38

Yep.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:11:39

Yep.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:11:40

So, so that's our number nine victim individually, and

Brittney Sherman: 00:11:44

Vicki is going to be a key watershed victim

Brittney Sherman: 00:11:50

for BTK because at this point.

Brittney Sherman: 00:11:54

There was no previous to this.

Brittney Sherman: 00:11:56

I should say there was no collection of DNA.

Brittney Sherman: 00:11:58

No one knew what it was for any of his previous victims.

Brittney Sherman: 00:12:01

In 1986, it's started to come out and he certainly left DNA.

Brittney Sherman: 00:12:08

It could not be traced to him or anyone else.

Brittney Sherman: 00:12:12

And in fact, over 1300 samples of DNA were taken to try and Pintu.

Brittney Sherman: 00:12:18

Uh, Vicky Weatherly, but none would be positive until almost 20 years later.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:12:25

So Britney, who was our last victim?

Brittney Sherman: 00:12:28

Victim number 10, 19 91.

Brittney Sherman: 00:12:31

Again, a gap of, uh, coming up on five years, uh, between murders, Dolores Davis.

Brittney Sherman: 00:12:43

Uh, Dolores is 62 years old.

Brittney Sherman: 00:12:46

So again, uh, he is attacking older women at this time.

Brittney Sherman: 00:12:52

Uh, Dennis is 45, 46 years old.

Brittney Sherman: 00:12:55

Uh, Vicky was younger, but we saw Marine was, uh, 53.

Brittney Sherman: 00:13:00

Now Delores is 62 and he particularly targeted Dolores

Brittney Sherman: 00:13:06

because she, uh, lived alone.

Brittney Sherman: 00:13:09

She was a little bit older and.

Brittney Sherman: 00:13:14

If I'm not mistaken, she was a critical neighbor.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:13:19

Yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:13:19

She lived a mile and a half away.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:13:21

Yeah.

Brittney Sherman: 00:13:21

So, uh, it was, he found it to be a pretty easy target.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:13:27

I feel like he's getting lazy.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:13:28

Yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:13:28

I kind of agree.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:13:30

I mean, he's like, ah, you know, I think by this time, because this is

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:13:34

1991, by this time, I think, I feel like he really wants to get caught or

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:13:38

he's frustrated with the police because nobody's paying attention to him.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:13:42

This is when he starts throwing down the gauntlet with information to.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:13:46

Is heavily communicating with the police and the newspapers and the news.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:13:51

Like this is me, this is me.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:13:53

I mean, he sends photographs of himself, you know, in, in hanging,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:13:58

you know, and these autoerotic positions, you know, cross dressing.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:14:02

I mean, One way out of his way to get attention.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:14:05

So it's so crazy that they can't wrap their heads around this.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:14:08

And remember, you know, now I think we're, we're into DNA old, right?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:14:12

If I'm not mistaken, BTK was one of the very first DNA test that they ever did.

Brittney Sherman: 00:14:19

Let's listen to mean like in 1986, when

Brittney Sherman: 00:14:22

he was, he was not tested.

Brittney Sherman: 00:14:24

Uh, but Vicky Wagerly, the DNA that was left was tested.

Brittney Sherman: 00:14:29

That was one of the earliest ones.

Brittney Sherman: 00:14:31

So the.

Brittney Sherman: 00:14:32

Database look for a DNA at the time would have been very, very

Brittney Sherman: 00:14:36

small because you're right.

Brittney Sherman: 00:14:37

This was one of the earliest cases that tried to use DNA.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:14:41

So back to Dolores, you know, here's a poor woman again,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:14:46

um, he, uh, going, you know, with the boy Scouts or the Cub Scouts, um, he

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:14:52

skipped, you know, slipped away again.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:14:55

He drove his car.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:14:57

Yeah, he does car to his parents' house.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:15:01

Four minutes hit close.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:15:03

I mean, this guy, he's such a douche bag.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:15:05

He's like, really he's really playing this part.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:15:07

Like he's so freaking cool.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:15:09

He's not whole, he's not cool.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:15:10

All you know, and I think that he thought he was not cool at all.

Brittney Sherman: 00:15:13

He's like, but he's also not evolving anything.

Brittney Sherman: 00:15:16

It's just the same routine.

Brittney Sherman: 00:15:18

Like you said, he's getting

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:15:18

it doesn't have to evolve.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:15:19

He just is like, I'm just going to do well.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:15:21

He's proven over and over again, and they're not going to catch him.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:15:24

You know, my God, he went in with Dolores, same situation.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:15:29

He needed money blah-blah-blah he tied her up in the bedroom and then he

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:15:33

strangled her, you know, this poor 62 year old, a woman living by herself.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:15:38

He takes the car, you know, the body and puts it in the trunk.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:15:43

He.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:15:45

It's so crazy.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:15:46

He, it sounds to me like he drives the body, drops it off somewhere, um,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:15:54

goes back to her house and wipes it all down and then goes to the church.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:15:59

Yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:15:59

But then I think he loses his gun.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:16:01

So he has to go back there and research for his gun.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:16:05

And then he goes, oh, I don't remember that part.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:16:08

He's like, oh shit.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:16:09

You know, and he drops his gun and then he goes back.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:16:11

So he goes back, he goes back to the church.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:16:15

Um, and then he went back to where the body was.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:16:17

He put it back in the trunk and he went and dropped it off at her under

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:16:19

a bridge, like, oh my God, how many times guys move in these bodies?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:16:23

And nobody seems to notice, well, he's leaving evidence everywhere.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:16:28

I don't recall if you left any DNA evidence with Dolores.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:16:31

Um, but I think by this time he was like scattered and freaking out and.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:16:37

You know.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:16:38

Oh, and here's, what's interesting Rader.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:16:41

Then I am reading this directly from Wikipedia Rader, then went somewhere

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:16:45

to change back and do a scout uniform and returned back to camp.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:16:48

The following evening, he went back to where he left the body

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:16:52

and took photographs of it.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:16:54

So he goes back to where he drops it off and takes pictures.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:16:59

Like he, I mean, are you kidding me?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:17:01

Like, there's some dudes standing there taking pictures of a dead body and

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:17:03

nobody notices what is happening here.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:17:06

And nobody notices, I don't believe it.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:17:08

I just think it's so crazy.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:17:10

So this is the end of a BTK.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:17:12

Now remember everybody right around this time, you know, D D this is where BTK

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:17:17

is escalating with all of his paperwork, his drawings, um, all his nonsense.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:17:22

You know, I, I I'm unaware of any specific incident that caused him to sort of

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:17:28

reinvigorate something happened between 1986 and 1981 or 91 that, you know,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:17:35

caused him to sort of stop who knows?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:17:39

Oh, You know, but at the end of the day, I think what we know to be true about

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:17:44

how Dennis Rader slash BTK was caught was that he had been communicating with

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:17:49

an investigator on the, at the police.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:17:52

And, uh, he, he apparently he thought he developed a lovely relationship

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:17:56

with this guy and, uh, Ken, one of the detectives, any ask Ken, if he could

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:18:01

send them a floppy disc, um, of some photos and things that he wanted to send

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:18:06

him, if he would, if he would trace it.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:18:09

And well, the police says, no, the police say no, uh, you know, of

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:18:14

course good for them for lying.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:18:16

And then he, they get this floppy disk and.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:18:20

Fairly easy to see exactly who authored this file.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:18:25

And I guess BTK, wasn't aware of, you know, how forensic it forensics

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:18:30

work, but he clearly didn't, didn't protect himself in that

Brittney Sherman: 00:18:34

way.

Brittney Sherman: 00:18:35

Okay.

Brittney Sherman: 00:18:35

So let let's, let's back up a little bit though, and talk about

Brittney Sherman: 00:18:38

the events that led up to this.

Brittney Sherman: 00:18:40

So from 91 to 2004, BTK, Dennis, Laid dormant.

Brittney Sherman: 00:18:49

He didn't commit any other crimes to, you know, per se.

Brittney Sherman: 00:18:53

Uh, he at least was not tied to any other confirmed victims, but coming up on the

Brittney Sherman: 00:18:59

30th anniversary of when the first murders happened, the Otero murders happened.

Brittney Sherman: 00:19:05

An article was published from a biography about the BTK killer.

Brittney Sherman: 00:19:12

And Dennis read this article in the newspaper.

Brittney Sherman: 00:19:17

Wait, wait, this isn't accurate.

Brittney Sherman: 00:19:19

He's not telling it right.

Brittney Sherman: 00:19:21

And he's trying to take credit for my own story.

Brittney Sherman: 00:19:23

If anyone's going to get credit for telling my story,

Brittney Sherman: 00:19:25

I'm going to tell my story.

Brittney Sherman: 00:19:28

He was provoked again because he thought someone else was going

Brittney Sherman: 00:19:30

to get credit for his work.

Brittney Sherman: 00:19:32

Not necessarily, they're going to take credit for the, for, for the

Brittney Sherman: 00:19:35

murders, but they're going to get the notoriety for writing about him.

Brittney Sherman: 00:19:39

So that goes against his ego, his hubris that gets him caught.

Brittney Sherman: 00:19:43

So.

Brittney Sherman: 00:19:44

No, he starts sending letters again and pictures, uh, copies of pictures.

Brittney Sherman: 00:19:50

Cause like you said before, he never sent the originals.

Brittney Sherman: 00:19:53

He always made copies of letters and pictures and sent the photocopies

Brittney Sherman: 00:19:58

and he left like a box that showed that had a Barbie doll

Brittney Sherman: 00:20:03

posed in, I think the way that.

Brittney Sherman: 00:20:07

Violent way that Vicki Weatherly was found, I believe it's.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:20:12

And he did, he, he sent them more than one Barbie

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:20:15

doll posed as one of his victims.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:20:17

And, um, he would send this to like big box stores or some store.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:20:20

And, um, the, the second one, uh, well, I know there are at least two, the

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:20:24

other one that I knew of was posed like Josephine hanging from, uh, Oh, see then,

Brittney Sherman: 00:20:31

and that goes back to what I said in part one, listen to that.

Brittney Sherman: 00:20:36

It's terrible.

Brittney Sherman: 00:20:37

Uh, but Josephine is an 11 year old girl.

Brittney Sherman: 00:20:40

And you just said it was found hanging from PVC pipe, which is just awful.

Brittney Sherman: 00:20:44

He, he even posted pictures around town, behind street signs.

Brittney Sherman: 00:20:50

His victims, he fancied himself an artist.

Brittney Sherman: 00:20:53

He was a terrible artist.

Brittney Sherman: 00:20:54

Um, but I want to also quickly talk about that floppy disk like that,

Brittney Sherman: 00:21:00

that you discussed, because the way that the investigators communicated

Brittney Sherman: 00:21:06

with him was really clever.

Brittney Sherman: 00:21:09

I don't know if you read about this.

Brittney Sherman: 00:21:12

He was communicating with this detective and asked, as you said, can you trace a

Brittney Sherman: 00:21:18

floppy disc back to its original owner and instead of a yes or no conversation

Brittney Sherman: 00:21:28

communication, they actually agreed upon putting something in the crossword

Brittney Sherman: 00:21:35

puzzle of the, uh, local newspaper.

Brittney Sherman: 00:21:40

And if there were like certain letters in there or numbers, or however it worked

Brittney Sherman: 00:21:45

that was going to give him the answer.

Brittney Sherman: 00:21:48

It was really, I thought

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:21:49

it was very clever, but what was the, well, the answer

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:21:52

was he going to get yes or no?

Brittney Sherman: 00:21:53

Yes or no, but it wasn't going to say yes or no.

Brittney Sherman: 00:21:56

It was going to be like, if it's these three letters in a row or,

Brittney Sherman: 00:22:00

or the answer to this clue is such and such, that's already.

Brittney Sherman: 00:22:04

Oh,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:04

this guy he's such a jerk.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:06

So I here's where I want to step back too, because you know, we're down.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:10

We're, we're, we're at our 10 murder victims.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:13

We know that he's killed 10 people.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:15

I, I personally don't believe he was dormant and he actually has

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:20

written a lot about all of the times that he tried to commit the same

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:27

crime and he wasn't successful.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:30

I just think he got one.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:31

I think there got lazy.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:33

There was a person he had planned to murder and he, it didn't actually happen.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:37

And then there was another woman, I think it was her name, Anne Williams,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:40

where he went over to her house and, you know, she didn't show up or something,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:44

but he said that happened quite a lot.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:46

That wasn't the first time I've been, it wouldn't be.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:50

He said he

Brittney Sherman: 00:22:50

got bored waiting.

Brittney Sherman: 00:22:51

So decided not to go through with it, like, come on.

Brittney Sherman: 00:22:54

Are you like, wow, I be so you're right.

Brittney Sherman: 00:22:56

When, when I say supposedly when dormant, we don't know for sure.

Brittney Sherman: 00:23:02

Uh,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:23:04

yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:23:04

I think those, I think that those are his unsuccessful times, to be honest with you.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:23:07

I don't think he ever went dormant.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:23:09

He may say.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:23:09

And I think that part of that was the two.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:23:11

I do believe that he did.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:23:14

Well, here's what the, you know, a lot of people, oh, well, he, he didn't, you

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:23:17

know, sort of confess to other murders.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:23:19

Were there other murders happening?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:23:21

Like how could they not tie him to them?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:23:23

You know, if it was the same situation and there was likely

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:23:25

DNA, why couldn't they be tied?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:23:26

Like, how are people unaware of other murders happening around them?

Brittney Sherman: 00:23:30

No, totally.

Brittney Sherman: 00:23:31

Uh, so the, the floppy disc, they were able to track the metadata from Microsoft

Brittney Sherman: 00:23:37

word, which is really easy to check.

Brittney Sherman: 00:23:39

If anyone knows how to.

Brittney Sherman: 00:23:41

Basic things about Microsoft word.

Brittney Sherman: 00:23:43

And so they didn't find that it was him specifically, but they found that

Brittney Sherman: 00:23:48

it was a guy named Dennis and that the Microsoft word was registered to

Brittney Sherman: 00:23:53

the church that Dennis Rader attended.

Brittney Sherman: 00:23:56

So now they narrowed it down to anyone named Dennis at this particular church.

Brittney Sherman: 00:24:01

And keep in mind they had his DNA from 1986, but they didn't

Brittney Sherman: 00:24:06

have any current DNA to match it.

Brittney Sherman: 00:24:10

So they got really clever.

Brittney Sherman: 00:24:13

The detectives knew his daughter attended Kansas state university.

Brittney Sherman: 00:24:16

So went to the campus university health center and collected DNA,

Brittney Sherman: 00:24:24

which I think is really crazy from a pap smear that she had.

Brittney Sherman: 00:24:28

I have to say, when I heard this, I thought, what about HIPAA laws?

Brittney Sherman: 00:24:32

I don't understand how they could do that and get away with it, but

Brittney Sherman: 00:24:36

it actually worked out for the best because they were able to compare her

Brittney Sherman: 00:24:40

DNA to the DNA, found at the crime scene of Vicki Wagerly and they were

Brittney Sherman: 00:24:46

able to tie of course, to Dennis rater.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:24:50

Yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:24:50

And what's interesting is I watched a, um, uh, some video on YouTube.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:24:55

I can't remember the name of it.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:24:56

Sorry guys.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:24:56

But.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:24:58

Interviewed and she describes the situation herself.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:25:01

She says that exact thing that they got the DNA from.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:25:05

They got that.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:25:06

What she said was they felt they got they, what did they say?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:25:09

She is?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:25:10

So they associated my father's DNA with DNA, from my pap smear.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:25:14

And I was just like in a really connected it, you know, because

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:25:17

here's a woman sitting there saying that this is my father and they use

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:25:20

me to prove it really, really crazy.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:25:23

I mean, and I think that.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:25:25

Uh, uh, there were, uh, there were other, there were other murders.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:25:29

I don't think that they had tied to him until also, you know, when his daughter

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:25:33

was being interviewed, she told them, I think that they didn't tie the Marine,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:25:36

their neighbor nor Dolores to Dennis Rader until, um, I think maybe his daughter

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:25:41

had mentioned it because she knew them.

Brittney Sherman: 00:25:44

Yeah, they were neighbors.

Brittney Sherman: 00:25:45

There were.

Brittney Sherman: 00:25:45

Yeah.

Brittney Sherman: 00:25:46

Uh, he, um, so after the confirmed the DNA.

Brittney Sherman: 00:25:52

Yeah, it was academic from there.

Brittney Sherman: 00:25:54

He was pulled over for a routine stop.

Brittney Sherman: 00:25:58

He was arrested.

Brittney Sherman: 00:25:59

He knew exactly why he was being arrested.

Brittney Sherman: 00:26:02

He had been waiting 30 years to get caught and he finally got the notoriety

Brittney Sherman: 00:26:09

that he had been hoping for and he openly confessed to all of his crimes.

Brittney Sherman: 00:26:14

So that way it, his name would become famous.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:26:19

So here's some other crazy things about Dennis Rader.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:26:22

I just wanted to sort of wrap it up with this because obviously he confessed no

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:26:26

death penalty in Kansas at the time.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:26:29

So he got 10 consecutive life terms.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:26:31

He knows he's not getting out by the way, he's in solitary confinement.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:26:34

He doesn't get to be around any of the other inmates.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:26:37

So just so that.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:26:39

And I feel like it also lets them off the hook.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:26:40

Also, it sounds like people are pretty pissed off the victims in particular,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:26:44

because he can buy stuff with the money he makes or earns or gets in jail and he has

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:26:49

a TV and other stuff, so he can sit in his little solitary confinement and, you know,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:26:53

whatever, but it's really discussing.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:26:56

It's frustrating.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:26:57

I don't think that's fair.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:26:58

Um, you know, but the other thing I want to mention is, you know, he, oh, Dennis.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:07

When he's being interviewed, he's still like kind of

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:10

disconnected from what he did.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:12

He's talking to these guys like they're his buddies and he, when

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:16

the police, he asked the police where he talks to police about the

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:18

floppy, he gets offended that they.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:23

Uh, you know, he asked them, you know, yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:26

He, they lied to him and that, that was how, why would you lie to me?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:31

I mean, that's so crazy, but, um, other than things that he said during

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:35

the interview that I thought was really weird, was that how yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:38

They asked, he asked how long he was going to be there.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:41

Um, you know, because he had other things to do and you know, he's like,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:45

am I going to be here for like, yeah, you'll probably be here for a while.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:49

The other thing that he said right after that, that I thought was so flipping

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:52

gross was he asked if he could write BTK on his coffee mug in the, you

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:58

know, when he was being interviewed.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:59

So it wouldn't get mixed up with anybody else's oh my God.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:03

That's the Sherri.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:06

That's the cherry on the top for me right there that tells me that this

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:09

guy doesn't never, he's never cared.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:11

He doesn't care.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:12

He never will care about what he did to be so flippant and to be so

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:17

obsessed with taking responsibility for these horrendous crimes and to

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:20

say something so freaking stupid.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:23

Oh, I think also when he was being arrested, he asked for them to

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:25

tell his wife that he's going to be late for lunch or something.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:28

I mean, just.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:29

Stupid.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:29

Like, are you kidding me?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:31

Um, but you know, I, I didn't find too many conversations like videos with that

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:38

interviewed dinner's Raider directly.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:40

Um, but they most certainly sure that.

Brittney Sherman: 00:28:43

Well, I, I, well, I'm sure that all the detectives and

Brittney Sherman: 00:28:46

officers do, I don't want to see, I don't want to see interviews with him.

Brittney Sherman: 00:28:50

I don't want him to have notoriety he's D he was the, the talk of 2005 for sure.

Brittney Sherman: 00:28:57

And years later, it's 15 years later.

Brittney Sherman: 00:29:00

Now his name has.

Brittney Sherman: 00:29:03

Fallen out of the headlines, his family has dropped all communication.

Brittney Sherman: 00:29:08

His, his wife filed for an emergency divorce and it was

Brittney Sherman: 00:29:12

granted right after he confessed.

Brittney Sherman: 00:29:15

His kids do not communicate with him.

Brittney Sherman: 00:29:18

Uh, and his kids feel really bad and guilty because they feel like.

Brittney Sherman: 00:29:24

I should've seen this.

Brittney Sherman: 00:29:26

I should've seen the, the, the patterns and the evidence.

Brittney Sherman: 00:29:30

He left clues that they're recognized.

Brittney Sherman: 00:29:34

They thought, never thought it could be possible because it's their dad

Brittney Sherman: 00:29:37

and who wouldn't think that, but now they live with this guilt and say,

Brittney Sherman: 00:29:42

had they put two and two together.

Brittney Sherman: 00:29:44

They absolutely would have turned him in.

Brittney Sherman: 00:29:46

They, they do not feel any closeness or Alliance with them.

Brittney Sherman: 00:29:50

And they agree with the rest of the world that he is a disgusting, horrible

Brittney Sherman: 00:29:54

human being who deserves to rut in.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:29:58

Yep.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:29:59

Um, a couple of other things to note, um, you know, I just want to

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:02

talk a little bit about all of the.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:05

The, uh, things that the BTK killer had, Dennis Rader inspired and, uh,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:11

co uh, many, many things in the media.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:15

I mentioned that he had written his, a book confession of a serial

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:19

killer, um, with Catherine Ramzan, I guess she's a forensic psychic.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:25

This was a guided autobiography.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:27

She says, and it sounds like that the proceeds of that went to the

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:30

victims, but that was certainly to, you know, stroke Raider's ego.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:34

He wasn't doing it for them.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:36

You know, he might not get the money for it, but who cares now?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:40

Also mentioned that his daughter was, um, you know, writing a book

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:44

about surviving demonstrator.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:45

So you know, that talking about, you know, how they found out and things

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:50

like that, I'm on the fence about that.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:52

I don't know.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:53

I would kind of just let it go in my opinion.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:55

I don't know how, you know what I mean, like yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:58

Uh, I don't, I don't want to be still want to seem opportunistic

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:01

in a moment like that.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:02

Right.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:02

Cause I, I mean her kids, his kids definitely see

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:05

themselves as victim number 11.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:08

They totally, that, that they've said that, you know?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:10

Yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:11

And, and I agree.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:12

The other things that you'll see in the media that was there or inspired by BTK

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:17

was a, I guess, a novella written by Stephen King called a good marriage.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:21

And then a film.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:22

I did not see the film, but I love seeing me king I'm

Brittney Sherman: 00:31:25

also on Amazon prime, but I

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:27

didn't have time.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:29

I'm gonna watch it.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:30

Yeah, it sounds well, I don't know.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:32

Sometimes Stephen King movies.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:34

Aren't so good.

Brittney Sherman: 00:31:36

I'm just saying, that's why I

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:37

decided to know.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:38

I'm not sure.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:40

Well, so sidebar, what Stephen King movie would you say would be a good movie?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:44

I mean, there's only one I could think of maybe two shining and

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:49

be the shining Salem's lot.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:51

It was a great, I haven't

Brittney Sherman: 00:31:53

seen, um, I think the,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:56

I liked pet cemetery, but it was kinda cheesy.

Brittney Sherman: 00:31:58

I, um, I really like the remake of it.

Brittney Sherman: 00:32:01

I haven't seen part two, but part one or chapter one, I think is.

Brittney Sherman: 00:32:06

Surprised the heck out of me, how much, how good I thought that.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:09

Yeah, it's good.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:10

It's just not like, I mean, to me, the book and the movies

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:13

are completely different.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:14

It's crazy.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:15

But I love seeing the king is one of my favorite writers.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:17

I started reading him when he was, when I was 10.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:20

Um, the other things that have inspired by Raider are, which I did not know was

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:25

that Thomas Harris who wrote red dragon.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:27

And then of course the lambs, right.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:30

He said that he based Francis dollar hides character on him in red dragon,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:34

which I was like, Hmm, I guess I did not even really associate that.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:38

Then there was the hunt for watching that.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:40

Yeah, no, totally a hunt for the BTK killer, which is what I watched it was.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:46

And I got a lot of my information from it was really interesting.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:49

Um, I also listened to generation Y and their podcast episode about, uh, dentist.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:53

And it was interesting as well, as well as serial killers.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:57

I listened to serial class.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:58

That was really good.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:01

It was, I liked their take on stuff.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:04

Last, but not least.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:05

I would like to remind all of us that the BTK killer was featured in mine,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:11

hunter, uh, seasons one and two, which I'm hopeful that there'll be coming back.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:17

But, um, I would love to see their portrayal of Dennis Rader, um, you

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:23

know, completed and to see his, um, you know, his crimes come to fruition.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:28

So that's a lot out there.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:30

I mean, I, I, like I said, I hate this guy.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:33

I mean, I can't think of a better, any other way, like a slow, painful death.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:39

Somebody really knows what they're doing.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:41

Like, I would say Dexter's perfect for this guy.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:43

Like, let somebody kill him, who would keep him alive and let him be a pain,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:47

like tear him apart, limb from limb, throw him in an ant bed, whatever.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:51

I mean, I don't know.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:53

There's not enough to, to.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:56

I mean, he just did such terrible things and he just appears

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:58

to not give a shit about it.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:00

He doesn't care about anybody else.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:01

He doesn't care about his own family.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:03

It's just so crazy.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:05

And to see pictures of him and his family, um, you know, I really feel

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:08

for them, but, and of course, certainly we all we feel for the victims to

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:11

cause the things that they've gone through as the guy who survived.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:14

Holy crap.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:15

I mean, that's just, Ugh.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:17

And then the guy, the guy who had to watch his mom be murdered, I mean, it

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:20

was a path of devastation and it's, it's, we're glad that it's over, but.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:25

I have to say, I'm sad that it took them so long to figure that out.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:28

And that's

Brittney Sherman: 00:34:28

the part that is, is really tragic because

Brittney Sherman: 00:34:32

they had their opportunities.

Brittney Sherman: 00:34:34

We've seen this before.

Brittney Sherman: 00:34:36

We've read about other cases.

Brittney Sherman: 00:34:38

We've watched other examples.

Brittney Sherman: 00:34:40

It's just really sad because he had, he wanted to be caught

Brittney Sherman: 00:34:45

because he wanted that fame and notoriety and he was begging for it.

Brittney Sherman: 00:34:50

And it wasn't until.

Brittney Sherman: 00:34:52

He kind of was like, screw it.

Brittney Sherman: 00:34:54

I'm done.

Brittney Sherman: 00:34:54

I'm he practically just gave himself.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:59

Kind of, yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:00

I want to go back for a minute and talk a little bit about all the jobs that he had,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:03

because to me I'm like the trail of, you know, the jobs really sort of spoke to me.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:09

He worked, uh, like you said, he was in the air force.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:13

Um, apparently he was a butcher at one point in some, some market, he worked

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:18

at an outdoor supply company, fancy that cords ropes, things like that.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:22

And that's how he also knew how to, he knew how to.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:26

Actually, uh, create a lot of different kinds of knots.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:29

Cause he was a Cub scout boy scout guy.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:31

Um, he also was the ADT security systems representative, which is holy racy.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:39

He was a census field operations person.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:42

So he got to go to every single person's house that asked them who lived there,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:46

how old they were and what they did.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:48

So talk about invasive.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:50

The sky was taken, uh, making his list, you know, I'm sure he figured out

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:54

people that he wanted to target doing.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:56

And then he was a dog catcher and a compliance officer.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:00

And here's what threw me over the edge.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:02

Again.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:02

I was like, are you freaking kidding me?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:04

He, as a compliance officer gets to go visit the field office

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:08

where they've got their BTK, you know, sort of task force underway.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:14

He gets to walk in there and see all of this work happening, searching for him.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:18

Like I'm sure.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:20

I floated his boat.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:21

And I think this is around the time where, you know, people were getting

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:24

frustrated with him and he people that aren't really, he wasn't a nice guy.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:27

You know, he like had a dog euthanized.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:29

He was really horrible to people.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:31

Um, from the compliance standpoint, when he wasn't, he was a

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:34

total asshole, everyone hates.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:37

Yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:38

And I mean, she filed a restraining order on him.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:40

So they had a restraining order situation on this guy too.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:42

He said some terrible things to people.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:44

He told one woman that he was stopped bothering her.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:46

If she got rid of her boy, I mean, it's crazy.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:50

So, you know, again, we're to the end of the story, I think at the end of every

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:55

story, we always have this conversation about how we're so surprised that

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:58

nobody could figure it out sooner.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:37:00

Um, this one, you know, I just, I I'm like you, I feel like he just kind of

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:37:05

gave it up himself at the very end.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:37:07

He wanted to get.

Brittney Sherman: 00:37:09

Yeah, he totally did.

Brittney Sherman: 00:37:10

I in a, he wanted to get it caught much earlier something I forgot to mention,

Brittney Sherman: 00:37:13

but wanted to, you know, we talked about how Dolores was a neighbor that he knew.

Brittney Sherman: 00:37:18

He actually comforted, comforted her family during the Memorial

Brittney Sherman: 00:37:23

and the days after her death.

Brittney Sherman: 00:37:26

So that was just a little something I meant to mention earlier and I forgot

Brittney Sherman: 00:37:29

about, and it was very reminiscent to me as well as the way that he was

Brittney Sherman: 00:37:33

caught and confessed of aerial cat.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:37:36

I know I was just gonna say that totally because Ariel

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:37:40

Castro's like, he's, you know, sort of creating this connection between

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:37:44

these people, a false connection, because it's something that can sort

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:37:46

of instigated, but he's now working his way in horrendous Dennis Rader.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:37:52

For me, he's my number one, you know, hate, hate, hated serial killer.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:37:58

I.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:37:59

'cause he just, I can't believe.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:01

I mean, I'm sure more people have killed or people have killed more

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:05

people than he has Def, but the way that he did it and starting with

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:07

the children, that was the nurse.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:10

And what else was weird about it?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:11

To me, this case, I think the worst murders happened at the beginning

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:15

and he deescalated, I agree.

Brittney Sherman: 00:38:18

That's.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:20

Yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:20

That's not common though for serial killer.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:22

So there were a lot of things that were Plex perplexing about him, but, um, he's

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:26

still alive and well sitting, watching cable and El Dorado correctional facility.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:30

So if you wanted to send him a note, you probably could.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:33

I guess he got in trouble, like right.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:35

For like some kind of male thing.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:36

Um, some, some kind of male issues he got, he's been a, he's been a great whatever.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:43

You know what, whatever you are when you're in jail, a prisoner, um, he

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:47

hasn't except for some kind of jail, a mail thing, because he's either

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:50

sent something or he got something that he wasn't supposed to get.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:53

I don't think those guys should get any mail by the way, screw them, but I'm

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:55

sure he's often married to somebody else.

Brittney Sherman: 00:38:58

All right.

Brittney Sherman: 00:38:58

Uh, so Sonia, you mentioned a lot of your sources.

Brittney Sherman: 00:39:01

I want to give credit to biography.

Brittney Sherman: 00:39:04

Uh, Wikipedia naturally.

Brittney Sherman: 00:39:06

Uh, I actually read an original news article from the, uh, from, uh, uh, the

Brittney Sherman: 00:39:11

Wichita Eagle where, uh, that BTK sent letters to, and it was an article about,

Brittney Sherman: 00:39:18

uh, one of the letters where he claimed to kill seven, uh, then, uh, Murderpedia.

Brittney Sherman: 00:39:24

All that's interesting.com and you just turned me on to surviving BTK,

Brittney Sherman: 00:39:31

which was a really fascinating website.

Brittney Sherman: 00:39:34

And I'm glad you turned that on to me because there's a

Brittney Sherman: 00:39:35

ton of good information here.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:39:38

Yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:39:38

Yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:39:39

They really did their research and they've got a lot of good videos.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:39:41

So that's a really great website.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:39:42

Check it out.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:39:43

You guys surviving btk.weebly.com.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:39:46

And they've got a lot of really good information and we, you know, we count

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:39:50

on all of these different sources.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:39:52

For our information and we're happy to give them credit, you know, where credit

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:39:56

is due because they've done so much

Brittney Sherman: 00:39:57

legwork of new information from us.

Brittney Sherman: 00:39:59

We're not discovering anything new.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:40:01

Yeah, definitely.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:40:02

But I think we're compiling in, in a way that hopefully is interesting for people.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:40:06

Um, you know, I mean that, that's our, that's our mission is to give you

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:40:10

guys some entertainment while we're giving you details about true crime.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:40:13

So that is up and let us know how we're doing and vote for.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:40:18

Yay.

Brittney Sherman: 00:40:18

Yeah.

Brittney Sherman: 00:40:19

So, uh, check us out for the 2020 podcast awards in the people's

Brittney Sherman: 00:40:23

choice and, uh, society, podcasts, society, and culture podcast section.

Brittney Sherman: 00:40:30

Um, we were shocked and surprised and happy to be nominated.

Brittney Sherman: 00:40:34

So please check us out and vote.

Brittney Sherman: 00:40:36

Um, we're, we're thrilled and drop us a line on all of our social media

Brittney Sherman: 00:40:41

channels on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook.

Brittney Sherman: 00:40:46

I think those are all the big ones.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:40:48

Yep.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:40:48

And follow us at our, you can also subscribe to us on Patrion, which we love.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:40:52

We have a couple of patriotic folks these days, and we're going to be doing

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:40:56

some giveaways for our Patrion peeps to show them some recognition because we

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:00

sure do appreciate their subscriptions.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:02

Also, when I give a shout out to a couple of fellow podcasters out there, We've

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:07

got music city, nine 11 coming out of Nashville with Brandon Hall and folks,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:11

they do a great job over there and you'll hear their premiere at the end

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:14

of the episode, as well as meanwhile, at the studio, which is a little studio

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:21

in winter Haven, Florida, my hometown.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:23

That's trying to try to make it to the big time and I want to support them.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:26

So I'll be sharing their promo as well.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:30

All

Brittney Sherman: 00:41:30

right.

Brittney Sherman: 00:41:30

It's Carlitos love haven't you listened to us.

Brittney Sherman: 00:41:34

Like share, subscribe, follow, enjoy.

Brittney Sherman: 00:41:39

Well, any final word, Sonia?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:41

Nope.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:42

Hit us up.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:42

Let us know how we're doing.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:43

Let us know if you have any suggestions for episodes or we're all yours.

Brittney Sherman: 00:41:47

Stick around for few promos.

Brittney Sherman: 00:41:49

After the show, we are the ladies of Scarlet.

Brittney Sherman: 00:41:53

Keep

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:54

killing it.

Brittney Sherman: 00:42:04

Now check out a couple other podcasters that support us, and we

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:42:09

want to give them some support.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:42:16

Hey, fellow Scarlet, true crime listeners.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:42:19

I'm CC the host of a new true crime podcast, sooner state, true crime

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:42:24

as a born and bred Oki I'll cover cases based in my wonderful home

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:42:28

state of Oklahoma, the term sooner actually refers to tutors in the land.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:42:33

My state's very first true crime.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:42:35

New episodes are released twice a month and apple podcasts and most

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:42:39

podcasts apps or visit our website, anchor.fm/crime state to listen now.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:42:45

So come away with me to my crime state on the sooner state true crime podcast.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:42:51

And please stay sooner safe out there.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:42:53

Y'all.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:42:59

Hi everyone.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:43:00

I'm Ariel Cooksey, host of malice.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:43:03

When violent acts occur, we tend to think the predators are monsters.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:43:08

Surely no human could do such things, but if we're honest, only

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:43:13

humans commit malicious crime.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:43:15

And if you're like me, you want to know why to find out.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:43:20

Join me at malice, wherever you listen to podcasts by.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:43:27

Hey, y'all I'm Brandon Hall.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:43:29

I'm one of the hosts of music city, nine 11, a podcast about the good,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:43:33

the bad, and the dark side of nine 11.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:43:35

Dispatching me and my co-hosts are 9 1 1 dispatchers.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:43:39

With over 60 years of experience.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:43:41

Join us as we play 9 1 1 calls and discuss them.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:43:45

Oh, did I mention that we get.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:43:49

9 1 1.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:43:50

What's your emergency?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:13

And they stopped my daughter-in-law

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:24

You can find us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at music city nine 11, and we're

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:29

downloadable on every podcast platform.

Brittney Sherman: 00:44:33

We want to give a shout out to the pod all

Brittney Sherman: 00:44:36

the time podcast network that we Scarlet TCP are proud members of

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:42

other members of the pod.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:43

All the time podcast network, our creative intuitive, another digital citizen history

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:50

of a haunting round and round the podcast.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:53

Real AKA truth podcast, ruck up podcast, random unnamed podcast bourbon.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:45:02

Three PS in the podcast, Ross sex podcast.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:45:05

I think we're doing it podcast.

Brittney Sherman: 00:45:08

So if you like what you're hearing from Scarlet TCP, check

Brittney Sherman: 00:45:11

out these other shows that members of the pod all the time podcast network.