This podcast episode delves into the intricate dynamics shaping the world of triathlon, beginning with an examination of the recent merger between T100 and World Triathlon. We explore the implications of this merger for the future of triathlon, particularly concerning draft legal racing, which may face significant challenges as the sport evolves. The discussion further extends to the rising costs associated with participation in triathlon events, raising pertinent questions about accessibility and the potential elitism that may ensue as entry fees escalate. Additionally, we engage in a thoughtful dialogue surrounding the practice of stretching, scrutinizing its efficacy and relevance for athletes in the context of injury prevention and performance enhancement. Through these topics, we aim to provide our listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the current landscape of triathlon and the multifaceted considerations that athletes must navigate.

Links to topics discussed:

The TriDoc Podcast

Matt's Instagram

Jeff's Instagram

LifeSport Coaching

Email Jeff: tri_doc@icloud.com

Email Matt: Matt@thetemponews.com

Signup for the Tempo News

Signup for The TriDoc Podcast Supplement form

What would happen if you brought together a professional triathlete and producer of one of the most widely read triathlon newsletters?

Together with the tridoc medical contributor for Triathlete magazine, age group winter and coach at LifeSport coaching.

Let's say you had the makings of a pretty good podcast.

Welcome to Tempo Talks.

Two perspectives, one sport.

All things triathlon.

Hello.

Hello, everybody.

It is the week before Christmas and we are so happy to open up this.

This episode of Tempo Talks is our gift to you.

It's me, Jeff Snankoff.

I'm the tridoc.

That was my very shambolic opening.

That was great.

Of course, my partner in crime all the way across the mountains in Arizona, Matt Sharp.

Welcome.

Thanks, Jeff.

I really thought you were going to bust into a, like, triathlon themed version of the Night Before Christmas there.

I was, I was on Beta breath.

I'm sure we could figure out something, get chat on something like that.

Maybe next time.

Yeah.

Happy to be here with you.

I'm curious, you've come off your season now, like, where are you at with your training?

Are you training right now?

What's going on?

What's the situation there?

I was training and I've got this ankle problem.

I don't know exactly what's going on.

As a physician, I would be better suited to tell you what it is, but I didn't injure it.

It doesn't feel like an overused thing.

I'm a little concerned it might be some arthritis in there.

I had to actually, like, just stop running.

I was in the middle of trying to do a running block and it just was not happening.

So I've had to shut it down a little bit, which is okay.

I'm going.

My family, we are going on a family holiday overseas on the 26th, so through the beginning of January.

So it wasn't really.

I wasn't training all that seriously.

So if I have something that needs a little time to recover, I'm hoping it's nothing serious.

I'm gonna try and get in to see someone before I go, but I am still swimming, I'm still biking, still lifting weights and.

But not in a huge amount of seriousness.

But what I can feel is in the back of my mind, I'm already starting to feel that kind of like motivation is sitting there.

It's starting to build a little bit because once I get back from my holiday, I'm definitely gonna be all in.

Is it like, do you have races?

You're signed up for next year already?

Is there, Is that what's motivating.

Okay.

Yeah, Yeah, I know.

I've got Victoria in late May, and then I've got Oregon in July, and then I've got Nice in September.

That's what I have on the schedule right now.

I don't know if I'll be adding anything else.

I doubt it.

I have a pretty busy year with other travel, and those are three races that I'm really looking forward to.

And what about you?

Are you feeling like missing pants are.

Getting tighter these days?

I think, welcome to world.

I'm like, oh, boy, we need to get back into routine.

I don't need to be training, but I think I should be trying to maintain.

And I'm curious because I wanted to know if you had a race on the calendar because I feel like that's always a huge motivator.

You sign up for something, then expurs you on.

I don't have any races on the calendar, any kind of.

I guess I. I might have an Olympic distance race in April.

I kind of want to find a local race here in Arizona to do maybe in March or so.

So if I feel like if I sign up for something like that and be a sprint, I'll.

It'll help me get my butt into gear.

I've been doing like some gym work, a bit of running, like swimming with my wife Kirsten.

But no, definitely no training.

More in the maintaining.

Have you thought about.

Have you thought about branching out to different kinds of activities?

I know Juliet, who we both know from life sport.

Juliet is trying to get me to do.

What is it?

That's the swim run things where you swim.

I don't even know how to pronounce.

Yeah, she's trying to.

She did one this year.

She absolutely adored it.

She had so much fun.

She's trying to get me to go next year.

It's down in Austin, I think, or in the Austin area.

It sounds like a lot of fun.

If it works in my schedule, I'm definitely.

If I can make it work, I'm going to go and do it next year just because I don't.

I don't love to swim, but it just sounds like something different and I think that it would be a fun way to finish up the year.

Have you considered doing something like completely different like that?

I really haven't.

I actually am excited to almost go back to some grass grassroots triathlon races on more to just like be on the ground and see what the vibe is like.

I like, I'll probably race hard, but it's not like I'll be doing any crazy training for me where I'm at with my new job, I can't.

I'm not in a position to take many days off or I'm a rookie coming on this team.

And so I really need to be available for me, like, onboarding to this job, I guess onboarding to a whole new industry in, like, finance and stuff.

Like, my bandwidth for thinking about even doing some kind of different racing, maybe if it's local, but definitely no travel because I anticipate I'll be traveling quite a bit for Kirsten's races if she does 70.3s in the US like, I'll probably go with her those weekends and stuff.

So I just.

I'm not going to try and commit to something that I know down the line.

It's probably not going to make sense.

But definitely do want to, like, just hop into some local tries and.

Yeah.

Meet some more people and get in the community a little bit.

I enjoyed that back at home in Vancouver island when I did local races there.

So, yeah, definitely want to see what the scene like is here and just meet more people and maybe get a few more listeners on the podcast here.

Are you gonna get a gravel bike?

I have one.

I have.

You have one.

So I will be riding.

I'm gonna be riding that bike.

Am I gonna do a gravel race?

I could, but again, I like candy.

I can't even think, like, a day or two ahead.

I don't know.

We were talking a little bit before getting on the podcast and you can tell I'm a little cooked in a lot of aspects, but that's life.

Hey, I gotta adapt to this new stimulus.

Just like.

That's right.

Training.

So here we are.

That's right.

Yeah.

And Kirsten's down there now and you're getting used to the domesticated life of the nine to five and all that jazz.

Definitely.

It's definitely, I think, a little hard for her to not have me around as much.

Yeah, Just we're so used to being together, like, almost all the time in a lot of ways.

Maybe it'll be good for her to not have me around as much.

It won't get us on her nerves as much in some ways, but, yeah, definitely adjustment, for sure.

Especially when I was helping her with her training.

I'm gonna be a weekend warrior, I think, at this stage.

Maybe some morning swims and stuff once we get a bit more of a schedule.

But yeah, definitely an adjustment on our end.

But I'm happy to be down here, obviously, saying that because the weather is very favorable right now.

Right now in summer, when it's whatever, 40 plus Celsius, 100 plus Fahrenheit, every day might feel a little different, but right now I'm super, super happy with the move.

She headed to Pecan right in January.

Yes.

She is still training through the holidays and stuff, which is tough.

I don't think you should actually try and push too much, especially mentally through this time, just because you want to be with your family and enjoy that time.

But it's a nice opportunity for her to go down and race in Chile.

I'd done this poocon race the last couple years.

It's spectacular.

I think if you have the opportunity to go there and do this race, they advertise it as one of the most beautiful races in the world.

And that's certainly the case.

You're got this beautiful race destination, beautiful lake framed by a volcano, and you're cycling through the national park.

It's just spectacular.

So I'm glad she's just going from like a getting to experience the place kind of vibe.

That's awesome.

All right, we have an interesting, I think, episode today.

We have a few topics to discuss.

I was looking at the Spotify wrapped that out.

Yeah, they have something for creators.

So because we have our podcast on Spotify, they put the data together, they generated some things.

And we haven't had a huge number.

We started in March, but we have had actually quite a bit of success in the podcast.

And I was happy to see that our Spotify wrapped came up with a couple of nice things.

People listen to almost the entirety of our shows as opposed to a lot of podcasts where they will listen to the first half of the show and then drop off.

Most of our listeners listen right to the end, which is great.

We were a very successful first show.

We had.

We were more successful than most of the new shows that come on.

And we had a very engaged audience, which was really nice.

Thank you, everybody.

Yeah, thanks so much, guys, for being here.

We really appreciate it.

All right, so our topics for today, we're going to begin with the news of the T100 World Triathlon, kind of formalization of their merger.

They have been together now for a little while, but we're going to talk about what that looked like when the announcement came out, what we think is going to happen in the future, and we're going to just quickly revisit what went down at the grand final in Qatar last weekend.

We are then going to give our thoughts on an article that came out in Triathlete Magazine today.

We are recording this on Wednesday, I think it was today, it might have been yesterday, but talked about is triathlon becoming too elite or too elitist and basically just referred to the cost of entry and is it pricing out the everyday person who might otherwise want to participate in this sport.

And then we're going to finish with another training topic and the training topic today is one that Matt came up with and he wanted to talk about stretching.

When should you stretch?

Is it something you should do if you are going to do it?

What can you expect in terms of benefits?

But let's begin first with this news of the T100 continues to try and I don't know, make its footprint but not doing a great job in terms of creative naming but.

But why don't you share with us what was the gist of the story, Matt?

Yeah, big news.

I think it was right before the Grand Final Qatar this weekend basically to back it up, T100 and World Triathlon signed like a memorandum of understanding or letter of intent or what have you last year as like a 12 year agreement to work together and start making things happen together.

And 12 years, that's a long time.

And boom.

I think this is what they were getting at with this whole thing.

So essentially what happens is now T100 is going to be the commercial entity of this merger and they're going to be organizing the races.

They're going to be doing their obviously their T100 series but they're going to be taking over the World Triathlon draft legal, World Championship series races, all the draft legal races.

They're rebranding them the series to T50.

I don't think there was a lot of details other than that.

There's no kind of dates on when this is going to happen necessarily.

I think that's where the, that's, that's.

They are building this plane as they are flying it.

That's the whole thing with T100.

But they definitely, I feel like they've got some momentum on their side.

I think World Triathlon just realizes that they aren't maybe the right people as the governing body.

Maybe they're not the ones to have a kind of commercial entity with their races.

Obviously they've been doing them for a while but I think they're reading the tea leaves and seeing things happening in the market.

And so this whole merger with the T100 isn't a response to that.

And it's forward looking.

I would say initially when I saw this I definitely like recoiled in like disgust because it to me, and I've had other listeners, readers of the newsletter say basically, hey, this is going to be the downfall of draft legal racing.

Short course, draft legal racing.

And that was my feeling of reading this press release was like, oh boy, it's not going to be next year.

It's going to be down the line sometime.

I think they're going to be done with draft legal racing.

I think the second that the T100 maybe gets in the Olympics, which is obviously the goal now, getting that long course racing into the Olympics, I think the second that happens, I really don't know if draft legal racing is going to have a future after that.

What did you think when you saw this announcement, Jeff?

You were hyped for the 200.

It's mixed.

I think that you had said before that the world triathlon was financially precarious.

We're not doing well, they're not a profitable entity.

How about that?

Yeah.

And so they, it doesn't surprise me.

These sort of sportocrats, they don't do great for the sport.

They tend to do great for themselves.

And I don't know, they, they don't ever seem to really have the athletes in mind.

And so it didn't surprise me that they'd be looking for a bailout.

And here comes the T100 backed by all that Saudi money.

And of course it made sense.

The long game.

I, that's where I get concerned because the T100 continues to struggle in terms of being able to demonstrate that they can succeed without continuing continually requiring these big cash infusions.

And eventually that's going to stop.

And so when the music stops, is there going to be a chair for them to land on?

And that's what worries me.

I tried to get as many metaphors as I could into that.

I love that.

Yeah.

And I don't know, I don't know.

I remain unconvinced that Sam Ranuf is the guy to do this.

I think that once you start looking at the Olympics, once you start looking at really pushing this out into the kinds of size that they're talking about, which is an enormous amount of growth in a short amount of time.

I don't have confidence that Sam Renuf is the right guy.

He has not managed the T100.

All that, as far as I can tell, I would like for this to succeed, obviously.

Does the T100 belong in the Olympics?

I can't imagine people sitting down to watch a four hour event in the Olympics.

I just, I don't see it happening.

And their lap races are.

I'm sorry, but I know I'm not alone, but I find them boring.

And to watch these lap races in a city that are going to go on for four hours I think is not going to be a compelling argument for the Olympics.

I think the laps are boring because of.

Generally it's like a flat course when they have all those.

So what if.

So, yeah, if it was a hilly lapped course, you think that might change the calculus for you.

Might be a little more interesting.

Might be the reason that.

The reason that the triathlon in its current format is okay.

Is because it's a much shorter course.

So you can do it on laps.

It's not as big of a deal.

They usually put one hill on there.

It's.

And because it's draft legal, it makes for a very different kind of dynamic when you have to spread out the cyclists, you can't do it on a short lap.

It has to be longer laps.

And invariably it ends up being much harder to follow.

Much harder.

I just.

It's hard for me to imagine a half ironman, a T100 type distance as an Olympic event.

It's not to say it couldn't be done, but I.

The Olympics is always interested in eyeballs and I just have a hard time believing that's gonna get a lot of eyeballs on it.

Again, want nothing more than to see this to succeed.

I worry a little bit though because of the loss of the identity of the look I'm gonna show.

I don't even know the identity because I don't follow the World Triathlon Tour that much.

But the series.

Exactly.

That's their problem.

Yeah, that's their problem.

But I.

But the T50, that's not exactly a great.

Seems like something that can be cut pretty quickly if need be.

And this is the thing, I guess going back to the demise of the short course draft league of racing.

Yeah.

Ultimately the reason they were able to exist was a lot because of the value prop of the Olympics and having these events in these cities and being worthwhile for them to host.

But then I think just budgetary pressures and different things, people not wanting these events closing down cities.

By and large people are looking at the budgets, the ROI for these things.

And that's why World Triathlon has had so many, so much trouble finding hosts for these races.

That's where the strength of T100 comes in.

Because it's okay.

The age group component, bringing in a bunch of age group athletes who are spending money staying in hotels, all that good economic development buzz buzzwords or whatever, that is the value prop now.

And that's where I'm like, okay, eventually the, like you said, they're not gonna be able to rely on those nice, maybe Middle east subsidies forever.

And so when the rubber meets the road, at that point they're going to look at the balance sheet and say, okay, draft legal racing, all you're doing is costing us money.

Like our age group races.

Maybe they're making money by then.

Maybe the pro races have got more of a foothold in terms of sponsors, all that kind of stuff.

And yeah, eventually it's just gonna be like, okay, we need to cut this.

So I just, that's how I envision it.

I would love people to prove me wrong because obviously my whole coming up in triathlon and all that kind of stuff was defined by draft legal racing.

But yeah, it just feels like a lot of changing dynamics, market pressures, all that kind of stuff is probably going to be the end of it.

And at the end, this the way, Isn't this the way people qualify for the Olympics though?

I was curious on this timeline and I sent a message to my, one of my world triathlon people that I know who were pretty high up and he basically said, nothing's going to change for la.

That was the gist of it.

So I'm like, okay, so after la, I think the gloves are going to come off.

I think all bets are off because they also have this, what they're calling like a challenger.

So they're going to have 2, 100, they're going to have 50 and they're going to have this challenger series which is what the World Cups were.

But then you're like, is that non draft, is that draft legal again?

They don't have an idea fully figured out.

I think they're figuring it out right now.

They're trying to figure out right now.

But yeah, I just see this evolution, this change or whatever afoot basically leading to draft legal being cut out.

I would love to be wrong, but I don't think I am.

Yeah, I guess I, I didn't, I hadn't thought of that.

That would be, that would really be upending the sport completely because that would be saying that travel.

That's my essence.

Like I'm getting a TT bike, I'm getting as strong on the bike as I can, obviously trying to get Good at everything.

But the demands of competition are gonna just change on a dime, I think.

And no one's really talking about this, but I think, I don't know, maybe I'll be the one to raise the alarm bells of the for these development athletes because no one knows what's going on.

People think, oh, the people in charge, they know what's going on.

I used to think that and now I know.

These guys don't know what the hell they're doing.

They're just trying to figure it out as they go.

So yeah, it's definitely, that's definitely a second order effect that I don't think people are thinking about.

Some of them don't even care, which is fine.

It is what it is.

But yeah, just something to consider.

And I'm also like, it's really interesting.

Yeah.

I'm also thinking are they going to still have 20 athletes on the start line even though like they're going to have all these other athletes in the ecosystem.

It just doesn't make sense that way as well.

So maybe they'll open it up to 40 plus athletes.

Maybe they'll have 80 like they do in World cup cups with a race ranger.

Anything and everything.

That'll be interesting for sure.

That's really interesting, Matt, because I think about draft legal as being this amazing kind of almost minor leagues that's been giving us this incredible stream of athletes coming up out of Olympic cycles and then coming into the middle and long distance triathlons and it's been this amazing pool of talent.

And you're suggesting that could disappear and instead we'll just have this.

It might not disappear, but it'll just shift.

Right.

Like people will.

It's happening now anyways.

You see a lot of this new generation of athletes.

I always think of a guy like Rico Bogan from Germany who he won the 70.3 world championships.

I think he's 21 or 22, like he's super young guy and he never even went down the world triathlon draft legal road.

He just went straight to middle distance long course racing.

I think more and more people are doing that because they don't maybe see a future draft legal or there's just the incentives in long course are just so much better.

There's money in long course and there's not necessarily in draft legal.

So there, there is, but it's again, I would say it's not expanding.

Long course is expanding but short course draft legal is not expanding.

There's still money if you're good.

If you're a good athlete, you're gonna do well.

Matt Hower's doing well.

But yeah, I would say it's funny because I think of like in the past and they just.

I just saw one of these like today, the money lists, like the prize money list, you know, these lists that they come out with.

Yeah, typically, I remember even like mostly before COVID the top five, typically, especially women would all be like ITU short course athletes because the money was really good.

It wasn't as good as long in long course for the guys even.

I think it was pretty much like that as well.

And now like I just saw the one that came out today and the top five, six or whatever it was were pretty much T100 athletes because of just how much money is in the series, prize money wise.

Yeah, yeah.

There was this conversation took a darker turn than I was expecting.

I really thought you were going to be all over this as it's dark.

If it's dark, if you like.

I love draft legal racing, so it's like kind of dark for me.

For the normal athletes maybe who pay attention to pro racing, I don't think they're going to care that much.

It's just for me personally, I'm just like, I don't love it.

Well, I hadn't thought, I hadn't thought.

Market response is what it is.

Yeah.

I had not thought that this could potentially be the end of draft legal racing in the Olympics.

That was not something that had I had clued into.

So I hope I'm wrong, but wow.

We'll have to.

Obviously we're going to have to follow that story as it goes, but geez.

Okay.

One other thing to consider, Jeff, is world triathlon models themselves or they position themselves as the governing body, like neutral governing body of the sport.

And so now like even at the beginning with that T100 kind of memorandum of understanding, 12 years, like that kind of made things, you put things in motion.

And now with this clear merger between world Triathlon and T100, like Iron man, you're like, what the hell?

Like we've agreed to go by your rules because you were the neutral governing body, even though they competed, I guess in some ways.

But now, like if you're Iron Man, I don't know, are you going to try and do your own governing body thing or just do your own rules and don't even deal with world Triathlon anymore?

That's something to consider as well.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I still don't know how much Iron man looks at T100 as anything more than a nuisance.

It's more just this relationship with World Triathlon is in flu.

Yeah.

And.

And maybe they were always ready to pull the trigger on getting rid of it for Iron Man's sake.

And this is going to be the dagger, I would think, because like how can you get in the room and deal with people and all that kind of stuff when you know they're competing against you?

Yeah.

It's just much more neutrality.

The neutrality is gone.

Like it's totally gone.

Yeah.

So yeah, for sure.

It'll be interesting to follow that storyline as well.

So much intrigue.

Okay, all right.

Just quickly the world or the grand final took place at a very odd hour.

I didn't really see any of it.

I don't.

I think you didn't either.

But the beginning of the woman's swimming.

Cause I was up doing stuff and then I was like, I'll stay up and see.

Cause I want to see how many people were watching.

And there was like 2,500 people tuned in to the live stream on YouTube, which I don't think commanding numbers but people were watching.

There were people out there in Europe and Asia, I guess.

Yeah, probably Europe and Asia.

Yeah.

Hayden Wilde, never a doubt.

Didn't take an extra lap this time and basically really commanded the race.

Although I was surprised to see Morgan Pearson come into second.

Well, you did.

You did.

And I very impressed with that call.

Did not expect him to do as well as he did.

I thought that was a one time deal and nope, there he was.

So good for him.

Yeah.

Like with.

Sorry to go back to Hayden, like it's just crazy.

We got to go back and talk about his like car like collision coming back being like, what if this guy didn't even have that?

It would have been.

It would have been over in July or whatever.

Just incredible year.

Yeah, he just had this incredible year.

It was pretty amazing.

It was dominating.

So yeah, super impressive.

Morgan, very impressive as well.

And then who was third again?

Honestly, I don't even remember who was third.

Yellow was third.

Blue.

He blew up a little bit.

Both of these 70.3 world champions suffering a little bit which.

Yeah, fair enough.

It's a lot.

I can't remember.

I cannot remember.

It's kind of bad.

Yeah.

It just goes to show, this is the problem when you put the race in Qatar is like it's very much out of sight, out of mind.

Right.

Women's side, Kate Wolf took the win, took the series.

Looks like very much in control too.

Yeah.

The end of that Run, she looked under duress and Georgia Taylor Brown was definitely coming back on her in the back half of that run.

But it's huge for her.

Like she wasn't a contracted athlete.

She was like one of the hot shot athletes for the T100 and came out with a bang.

Her and Hayden both won the first race in Singapore and then they both won the final race in Qatar.

It's a, it was a long year and yeah, she just held on, did what she needed to do.

On race day.

She was right in the front group in the swim, right in that front with Lucy Charles, Jessica Learmouth on the bike and then yeah, just did her thing on the run and really I think when she first came out on one Singapore, you're kind of like, oh wow.

Like maybe she just ripped up that winter training and maybe she'll fade in the second half of the year and she really didn't.

Maybe she didn't wasn't like on the entire year but was on when she needed to be at the world championship and boom, 200k later.

See ya.

Yeah, yeah, it was, I thought it was a pretty interesting year.

Like a lot of interesting stories this year with rookies and with people like George Taylor Brown just having this phenomenal year, like just chipping away the whole year.

Her next year will be an absolute weapon.

Definitely someone who you're like, okay, she's podium conversation every single race.

Yeah, every race.

Because of your skill set.

Yeah, agreed.

And Paul Finley, as suspected, did not race.

I got the sense, like you said, she was just showing up just to check the box and yeah, seems like a long way to go for that.

But definitely hope she can heal up and get some good rest and recovery.

Yeah, this racing's hard.

It's a grind.

Obviously you're getting paid pretty good so, you know, maybe can't complain too much but that kind of travel at the end of a long season is a lot.

So yeah, definitely wishing her the best.

And yeah, kudos to all those athletes who really attacked that series because it's just very competitive.

You've got like at least 10 of the best in the world typically at these races.

I know maybe it wasn't always the case but generally they're just so deep and if you're able to put together a season where you, you know, like Morgan Pearson, Mika New, Rico Bogan, those guys.

Yeah, it's bloody impressive I think because it's just funny how these T100 athletes are getting sucked away from the Ironman races because of the incentives and Whatnot.

And it would be interesting to see conversation about, hey, what would Hayden do at 70.3 worlds?

Would he have dusted Blumenfeld and Gans, or would it have been a closer race?

Yeah, having him around in that.

There's always those questions as well.

Yep.

Great.

All right, let's move on to our next topic, which is a discussion of an article that came out in Triathlete Magazine.

I believe it was yesterday.

I said today, but I think it was yesterday.

And this article was all about whether or not triathlon is becoming too elitist.

And the gist of the article was really just centered around the idea that it is costing so bloody much for triathlon fees for just what you need to participate in the sport that there is a selection being made of the kinds of people who can have to be able to afford it.

And it is squeezing out the potential of having an entire portion of the population who just is never going to be able to participate in the sport, which by definition makes it a kind of elitist kind of pursuit.

And yeah, it's becoming too elitist, like the sport in general.

It's not that it's becoming elitist.

It's been this way for a very long time.

I've talked about this on my show many times, about the fact that the price of entry for triathlon is so bloody high.

The only thing that's really changed is that the race fees have gone up.

Like, I like, everything's gone up.

But it is always.

Look, when you start talking to people about how much it costs to get into triathlon, and you could say, oh, you could do it on the cheap.

You don't have to buy a $10,000 bike.

And they look at you like, you're like, are we speaking the same language?

Are we both speaking English?

And I'll be like, oh, really?

You can buy like a three or $4,000 bike.

And they still look at you like, okay, I'm done.

Yeah, I get it.

I get it and I totally understand it.

There's a reason why the bulk of people in this sport are men between 35 and 55.

It's because our society tends to reward men more than women, allow men to take more free time from their family than women, and that's where to dispose.

More time and income.

That's really what it boils down to.

So do you think the article is correct, is wrong in their premise that it's becoming too elitist or more elitist even?

Do you think, like, I think the article baseline, you're talking about of it being elitist.

But do you think it has become more than it usually was or used.

Than it was it the only way?

I think it is becoming more only because like you said everything's getting more expensive.

And also the race locations right now you gotta.

Because they've knocked off so many of the local races.

So now it's like racing is Ironman, it's MDOT.

Yeah there's T100 but there's not that many T100.

So you know in reality most people doing triathlon are focused on doing an MDOT race which means they have to either travel to one of those races or they have.

Even if they have one local they're still paying a big fee to get into it and it's a big commitment.

Yeah, I think if you're looking at the lens of if you're wanting to do yeah these kind of scaled T100 Ironman races then yeah it's going to be elitist because these guys are responding to market dynamics.

Are you familiar with the K shaped economy?

Have you come across this term?

Yeah, so they're responding to what is happening in the economy and unfortunately like the middle class in a lot of ways is getting hollowed out.

Like you think about the races of yesteryear like yeah, they weren't as done up as Iron man as polished but it was definitely more affordable for the average person.

And the reality is like just things are happening structurally whatever a bigger picture and yeah like they're just catering to what's happening in the economy.

You're going to see more watch companies sponsor triathlons and stuff.

That's where things are going in a lot of ways.

I think you, if you don't want to go down that road I actually think you can still do triathlon affordably but it's okay.

Who are you hanging out with?

Are you the people you hang out with want to do Ironman race?

It's just there's so many other factors.

I don't know if it's getting more elitist.

I don't know if I agree with that.

I think it's just great online bait, online buzzwords or whatever.

Clickbait.

Yeah, I think that's that was the premise and that's how media works a lot of times these days.

But yeah, of course it's getting more, more expensive but everything is getting more expensive and for reasons that are beyond like the triathlon entities control.

I think they're just responding like when the guy at the Ironman place or like when I Was in La Quinta says, you know, they're going to the Middle east because that's where the money is.

Like they're just following the money.

Like I, I don't know.

You look up at local sprint race.

Yeah, they're like a hundred bucks.

Like you can always.

You can borrow a bike if you know someone who has a bike.

Like I really think if you want to do it cheaply, you can.

But that's not how most people want to do this really.

And the other problem is, look, you could just show up and do a 5K.

Right.

Most people, they don't have to spend a lot of time training to do a 5K triathlon.

Kind of does demand for sure.

Definitely.

Yeah.

Even a sprint.

I would.

I mean there's always videos out there.

Like I did a triathlon for $300 or something.

So you can get creative.

But yeah, it's like, are you the kind of person who wants to do that?

And I just don't know if triathletes are generally like that all the time.

I don't know.

Right.

Maybe I'm generalizing.

But yeah.

And I also want to.

I. I can hear that there are going to be people saying the reason it's so expensive is because of Ironman.

And I.

Look, I do get that.

I do think that Ironman has driven prices unnecessarily and in an unsavory fashion pretty high.

But like you said, they are responding to market demand and market forces.

They are a for profit company.

Ironman's not a Fortune 500 company.

They don't make that much money.

And these races are very expensive to put on.

We know from you and I know from talking to someone in the know that Kona loses money often.

Even as with as expensive as the entry fee is, because entry fees basically cover the costs.

Like those races are super, super expensive to put on.

And I can understand.

I remember when Sam Ranuf was like, oh, we're going to make the T100 so much cheaper because we're going to do a better job.

And then as soon as they started putting on age group races.

Nope.

It was pretty much the same price.

Yeah.

Because they recognize if you want to put on a quality event, these are expensive things to put on.

So you're getting what you pay for in a lot of respects.

But that means you have to pay.

And when you want to do a longer distance race, it means it's expensive.

And I agree with you.

The way to get around that is to have more local options that are Shorter course.

But you're still.

Listen, it's still going to be the kind of sport that is going to remain niche just because it demands so much of someone really get into.

And I will say that I get.

Into time demands on people.

Yeah.

If a lot of people can't deal with that or can't manage that.

Yeah.

And people who get into it, they.

They feel the draw.

Listen, I got into it doing sprints and I did an Olympic.

And I'm like, I'm done.

No, I'm not gonna do more.

Okay, I'll try half Ironman.

Oh, I have to do an Iron Man.

And that's just a natural progression.

And, yeah, I think triathlon kind of filters for people who want to push themselves and want to climb the rung, so to speak.

Maybe that's why they.

I don't know.

Like, it just feels like it's a sport that.

Yeah, people want to push themselves and want to be the best version of themselves, so they're willing to invest.

I don't know.

Well, and I agree with that.

That's that.

I agree with that.

I was talking with Joe Wilson today.

Triathlon Joe, our friend.

There we go.

I said to him, I said, I'm not totally sure there's anything wrong with being part of this crowd.

And if.

Yeah, I, like, I don't think any of us feels particularly elitist spending all of this money to do this, but we do it because we're very passionate about it, because we really enjoy it.

We get so much out of it.

And Joe said to me, he's, look, I'm not a very wealthy guy, but I cut a lot of corners.

I do less so that I should do more triathlon.

I don't think that makes us elitist as much as it makes us maybe silly, foolish, but at the same time.

That'S for sure, there's worse addictions.

That's why I said, we don't have sports cars, we have fancy bikes.

Exactly.

It's funny.

I'm actually.

That's the one thing that's ironic about this article with me.

Like, I'm actually looking forward to stripping things back a bit if I do any of these local races this spring.

Like, I want to do it on my gravel bike.

I want to just get out of my trainer and shoes.

Like, just strip it back a little bit.

I'm actually really looking forward to that.

Just to, I don't know, get back to the grassroots, I guess.

So it's a different motivation, but still want to be involved in the sport.

Yeah, I look forward to hearing how that goes.

All right, we are gonna finish the program tonight with the discussion about stretching.

Matt, you brought the topic to me.

What were you thinking and why does this tickle your fancy?

I was thinking like crap.

I need to think of a training topic.

So.

Love the Odyssey.

It's.

That's the reality.

My producer is off this week, so I gotta come up with my own ideas.

But stretching, it's one of those things, I don't know, maybe when we got into the sport, like the trends in sport, stretching maybe used to be a thing that people did.

Maybe not so much now, but people did it for a reason.

So I don't know.

What's your take on stretching?

Where are you at with stretching?

So I have static stretching.

I'm talking about just like static stretching.

Stretching your hammy or whatever.

Yeah.

So I've done some research on this because it was a question that was asked on the Tridarc podcast.

And if you have questions about training or health or supplements or stuff like that, we do answer those things on the Tridoc podcast all the time.

So if you're not already a listener, I hope you will have a look at that show.

But we looked at stretching and we did do a deep dive into the evidence.

And the evidence on this is pretty clear.

If you are doing stretching to become more flexible, absolutely.

It will make you more flexible.

Like a range of motion you're talking about.

It will improve range of motion, it will improve your flexibility.

So we talk swimmers, for example, this idea that they.

There's a limitation to your ability.

I'm doing something that you can't see as you're listening to this, but I'm raising my arm.

So there's this idea that you have shoulder mobility restrictions.

You can improve that by stretching.

There is no evidence that stretching will prevent injuries.

So there was this long held belief that if you stretched before you did exercise, it would allow your muscles to become more limber, it would allow them to become more loose, and you would become less likely to get injured when you started doing activity that has been disproven.

In fact, stretching may cause injury if you do it before exercise.

So what is recommended instead is to do something called active warm up.

So you just basically ease into your exercise by warming up with active movements instead of stretching.

So stretching to prevent injury, not really a thing.

Stretching to improve flexibility is a thing.

Stretching for performance gains is a little bit more.

Not easily easy to say.

So where flexibility can help performance, like swimming, for example, having better shoulder Flexibility that can potentially improve your performance.

It's very hard to actually show that one goes with the other, though there's no benefits.

It does not seem like stretching and flexibility can make you a faster runner or a better cyclist.

But there may be something to swimming.

It's not all that clear.

So where do I come down with it?

I tell my athletes if they want to stretch, go for it.

I actually was doing a stretching program for much of last year, trying to become a little bit more loose in the back and the hips actually ended up with an injury.

And I was trying to, yeah, not from stretching, but I got this like lower back thing and I was continuing my stretching routine and I came to realize that the back wasn't healing because I was stretching.

And once I stopped my stretching program, my back immediately got better and I had to actually lay off the stretching for a little bit.

So I'm going to go back to it.

I don't do this like major huge terror.

I do a 20 minute stretching routine really focusing on my hips and lower back.

And that's just because as I've gotten older, I find those to be areas of tightness.

Yeah.

Do you think like for in longevity.

Speaking of like longevity and stuff, do you think stretching maybe as you get older, if you're an older athlete, might actually be more in the cards than if you're younger?

I haven't seen anything to say that's the case.

I think that strengthening is more important than stretching.

But I think that there's certainly.

I haven't seen anything that suggests that stretching hurts.

Now again, if you're stretching as your warmup, yes, stretching can hurt in that case.

But if you're stretching for flexibility, I've not seen anything that says that it hurts.

I haven't seen anything that says that it's super beneficial as you get older.

But because just being an active older person is better than being a sedentary older person.

But if you're not going to be active, stretching is probably better than not stretching, if that makes sense.

What about if you sit in an office for eight hours a day, all.

Of a sudden we know.

Yeah, we know.

That's not great.

You need to get a standing desk.

I do have standing desks.

I need to use the standing part more.

Yeah, gotta figure that out.

I think like for myself, like I grew up swimming, I think my body, it's just hyper mobile almost.

So I agree, like, I think stretching is not good for someone like me.

Like you said, strength is definitely what I need to be doing.

To manage my body.

Like, I think about, like that time when I went through puberty and you're awkward and your limbs are all over the place.

That was like me.

And so I think that's partly why I had so many injuries as I was developing, because I probably wasn't doing enough strength and I maybe was stretching when I shouldn't have.

So, yeah, maybe not a huge issue for our listeners, that context, but, yeah.

It'Ll be an issue for the occasional listener.

Exactly.

We can get that.

Gen X or Gen Z, rather, audience, who knows?

But, yeah, I think stretching, maybe in doses, like, I enjoy stretching.

I will say I enjoy it, but definitely not something I do before training.

Definitely something I do afterwards just to.

I don't know, it makes me feel good when I do it.

My quads.

Oh.

And I think that's huge.

I think that's huge.

Right?

I say that all the time.

If something makes you feel better, then go for it.

Who cares what the evidence says?

If it feels good, why not?

Yeah, I. I don't think that there's anything super compelling against stretching except as a warmup, but I definitely think that the evidence for it is lukewarm at best.

And, hey, if you feel like you're a person who's tight or if you have some range of motion stuff, by all means, I think stretching can definitely help with that.

And you just have to be gentle.

You have to be careful.

I was surprised to see that yoga can lead to some pretty serious injuries and mostly amongst men.

And it's because the men are so competitive.

They're trying to really get into the poses and trying to show how flexible they are.

And so they.

They end up tearing their muscles and getting into trouble.

Men will do that.

Yes, they will.

I don't know.

That Y chromosome again.

All right, I think we've come to the end of another episode.

Now, if you have a question or something that you'd like us to discuss in the vein of training, I hope that you will let us know.

We've had some suggestions in the Tempo Talk.

Tempo Talks Facebook group.

We would love to see even more of them.

So if you're not already a member, please do look for that on Facebook.

Answer the easy questions will gain you admittance.

There's also other ways to reach us.

You can DM us on Instagram.

You can drop us a line in all kinds of different ways.

We'd love to hear from you.

Matt.

What, are we doing an episode next week?

Jeff, we should.

Probably.

Let's just hash this out now.

Okay, so definitely next week.

I am.

I think next week we can do after that.

We will have to take a break because I will be.

It was the dates on this travel.

All right, so I leave the evening of the.

Yes.

Evening of the 26th and I will be back on the 6th.

So we will have to take a two week hiatus and we will pick up the show the week of January 5th.

So that'll be when we return.

But we'll do a show next week.

It's probably good to take a little breather.

I don't know.

I feel like we're doing a pretty good job.

I actually, I'm like really trying to get someone to, to do the editing for you and do all this.

So I'm working on the behind the scenes right now.

I think it'd be nice to do that.

I've got actually got my brother coming over the holidays and he is like a media guy.

So we're gonna do a big kind of pow wow about just like the newsletter and all this kind of stuff.

So I'm actually really looking forward to doing that because right now I'm running around with.

With my head cut off like a chicken.

That's where I'm at right now.

So I definitely think maybe taking a little breather on the podcast.

Even though I love doing it, it's probably going to be good.

With that said, then next week we should come with our choices for our top triathlon stories for this year.

Nice.

All right.

Nice.

Yeah, that's a good one.

That's a good one.

All right, listeners, you can look forward to that.

Do you have thoughts about your top choices of triathlon related stories?

Let us know what you think they are and if they merit inclusion in next week's episode.

Thanks for being here.

We love having you along for the journey.

Don't forget to leave us a rating and a review wherever you get this content and share it with a friend.

We look forward to catching up with you again next week.

Have a very joyful Christmas with your families if you celebrate and Hanukkah if you are partaking of Hanukkah.

And we'll see you again next week.

Thanks for being here again, Matt.

It's a great show.

Yes, thank you.

Thank you.

And see you next week for the last one of the year.

Foreign.

Talks is a production of the Triathlon Performance Hub and is produced and edited by Jeff Sankoff in the basement of Nakatomi Tower in the Hans Gruber recording vault.

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