What’s this episode about?

In the 3rd and final episode of the Branding mini series, Helen and I talk about visual branding. This isn’t an episode that is going to tell you how to create a great social media graphic or what fonts to use. This is much more about how we convey our brand to potential clients, from messaging and the language we use to the feel our brand invokes when people look at our social media and website.

If you’ve always ‘made do’ with a simple logo, brand colours and some social media templates, but it’s starting to feel a bit disconnected and like it doesn’t represent your business, or you spend hours on Canva trying to make things ‘work’ and want to develop a more cohesive brand look and voice - this episode is for you!

Episode key takeaways:

• Why branding is more than a font, colours and a logo (and what is really needs to include)
• When to invest in support with branding (and not to)
• The issue with using Canva for your branding
• How having a clear brand can decrease your mental load and increase your sales
• The ways your brand can attract dream clients (and repel ‘less than ideal’ clients!)

KEY LINKS:

Domestika course: Click here

Instagram: @mum_folk

Website: Mumfolk.com

INTRODUCING… HELEN BAMBOROUGH

Helen is a Brand Strategist, Creative Director and Founder of Mumfolk Studio - a Branding Agency for mums with creative, fashion & lifestyle businesses looking to stand out and make an impact. She’s designed for brands such as Whistles, The Bodyshop & Nobody’s Child before setting up her own studio in 2017 after having her first child. She helps mums in business gain brand clarity, magnetise the right clients and customers and build brand momentum. She’s also a Coach & Mentor for Brand Designers and featured Instructor & course collaborator for global teaching platform Domestika.

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Email me here: hello@sophiegriffiths.co 

Hello, and welcome to growing pains.

The marketing podcast for brands who want to grow and get more consistent

sales, but without the overwhelm of feeling like you have to be online

24 7, I'm Sophie, your host, and a Facebook and Instagram ad strategist

join me each week as I alongside some wonderful guests, she had practical

tips and advice about how you can use and combine marketing strategies

to get more impact for your effort.

Hello, so today I am thrilled to be here with Helen from Mum Folk.

Helen is the founder and creative director of Mum Folk Studio, a

boutique design studio for fashion, lifestyle, and creative brands.

She's designed for whistles, the Body Shop and Conde Nast, before setting up

her own studio in 2017, after having her first child to concentrate on working

with brands and founders who aspire to do things differently and want a brand

identity to match their big ambitions.

She's also a design teacher and course collaborator for domestica, an

international teaching platform, and the coach and mentor for designers aspiring

to run and grow their own studios.

So Helen, welcome to the podcast.

Thanks so much for having me.

I am really excited.

Before we gonna get into the meat of it all that's the official intro, but

what's your kind of work, family life?

Well, I'm a mom of two so four and seven.

My eldest has just turned seven.

Oh my goodness.

That it's like, what year is that?

Is that year three

you know

year three?

it is.

Yeah.

I'm moving into year three.

I really

moving to, yeah.

I feel like that, yeah, I feel, I feel like seven is quite a, an age.

It's like going into like the next kind of level of school, isn't it?

it is.

Next level of school, next level of attitude, you know,

everything that comes with it.

my five-year-old is bad enough.

I can't even imagine the naked could go off a level.

we go.

I, I won't scare you off

No, don't scare me.

Don't scare me.

Brilliant.

And whereabouts are you based?

I'm based just outside Cambridge.

Oh, nice, lovely.

Anywhere from home.

Yeah.

Work from home.

Yeah.

And have done pre pandemic and, you know, so nothing really

felt any different to be honest.

Yeah.

Lovely.

Fantastic.

Okay, now we have got to know you a bit more.

I will do the quick fire round.

Are you ready?

Ready?

Do you prefer tea or coffee?

Coffee.

Coffee.

. I know, I'm so,

tea.

It's a bit

oh, do you not?

I see.

I don't drink coffee.

I know.

I'm massively in the minority.

I always ask that one.

And everyone always like coffee, obviously.

Like is that even a question

It's the only way I stay awake.

Exactly.

Dogs or cats?

I feel a bit disloyal.

I've got two cats, but I'd say dogs any day.

I feel the same.

Like I've had cats and I still choose dogs.

Bagels or crumpets

Brew Bagels.

bagels.

I do, you know, I had a

Any carbs

breakfast this morning and I literally was like, oh, look at me.

I'm literally living my, my podcast.

Yeah, exactly.

Beach or pool.

Probably lazy option.

I'll go through the pool.

It's just easier.

Less faff.

God.

God, I'm getting so old.

I am such a pool fan.

Like I took my two year old, which is great mistake, to the beach

with sand, and I was just like, oh God, I'm not doing this again for

a while, this was very stressful.

, like, she

done for

every, we're done, we're done.

Winter or summer,

Oh, summer.

Yeah, I know.

I mean, I'm kind of autumn, so I dunno why I put that question in there.

Cause some doesn't really cover that color or monochrome.

Oh, color.

Hands down.

every time.

Early morning or late night.

I would say late night, but I probably train myself to

be an early morning reluctantly.

a choice?

Do you?

I know, yeah.

Okay, brilliant.

So today we are here to talk all about branding.

And I know, I guess just to kind of set this up, the reason I've got Helen

on here is because from having lots of chats with lots of clients, I know.

, it can be seen as a bit of a thing where you're setting up your business

for the first time and you're creating your website and you're maybe trying to

make some Instagram posts and you think, right, I need to tick my branding off

and you might use Canva or you know, initially it's probably quite DIY and

it's sort of like done and dusted.

And really what we are kind of want to explore today is.

Where you go from there and how you kind of keep that branding on track

and the common mistakes people make.

And when you might be at a point where you need to kind of move

from doing it yourself into getting some support and help and, and how

that can help your business really.

And I kind of, it's a strategic business decision, not just a, oh,

I want prettier Instagram posts.

So yes, let's dive into it.

I mean, Helen, I know you talked a lot, obviously lots of clients as well.

What other things you most hear about branding from your clients?

I'd say the biggest one is just the indecisive loop

that you can get trapped in.

So the constant distraction, we've, we've all got it.

We've got you know, you are on Instagram and you're constantly

seeing other people's feeds and other people's businesses.

You might be on Pinterest and that's highly visual, so you've got

all these kind of inputs and it.

It's just that distraction that I think clients get caught in and then you're

constantly second guessing is, you know, should I be going in that direction?

You get distracted by design trends as well, so, you know,

lots and lots of things to kind of pull you off track if you like.

and then just people having that urge to change everything every five minutes.

So, you know, the constant need to be like, oh, but that one looks really good.

Or, you know, those color, that color combination looks so much better.

So there's that, but also spending too long designing for your brand

as well is a big frustration.

I.

Clients come to me often at that point where they're like, it

just, I can't make a decision.

It just, it feels messy because I've added loads of things on as they've grown.

And it just, there, there's no cohesiveness to it, so they

just dunno where to start and everything's just taking way too long.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, I could totally resonate with all of those points.

And I think as well, just thinking when you were talking there and you were saying

like, adding things on and you know, thinking, oh, this is a design style.

I think one of the things, and I've definitely done it myself as well,

is that you, obviously Canberra is an amazing tool and it really

gives people like accessibility to be able to like design things.

But I think there's, even if you have your, if you've really rigid with your

colors and your fonts, there's still.

Such a process of then you say you're designing your Instagram like post

let's say, and you'll do some templates.

You know, you can choose three different templates and still use

the same font, same colors, and they can be totally different style, can't

Yeah,

and I think that's something we can kind of get into like a trap

of, of just thinking as long as I use the right colors then my, my

brand is still on brand as such.

Like, I dunno if that's something your clients kind of find as well, but.

Well they do because yeah, like I said, camera's amazing.

You know, it gives you that accessibility to just jump in, create things quickly

and not pay for, you know, subscribing to.

Design packages and things like that.

So it's great for that.

But yeah, with it comes you know, the small print or the caveat of just knowing,

there's just, again, so much temptation to use different templates and unless

you are really clear on your, your brand language, like the visual language, how

it plays out it's really easy to go off.

because you need to, to grab a template, you need to post something.

And we're all trying to do it on the fly, on the go.

And that's when things start to get confused.

And before you know it, you've sort of lost your way and you dunno how to find

your way back to what the style was.

yeah.

Absolutely.

And I think especially when you are adding, like you, you mentioned like

adding services or products or your business evolves, doesn't it, over

time, like maybe you did your branding like three years ago and then you've

kind of raised your prices or you've, like, you're starting focusing on maybe

a slightly different ideal client.

I know that's something we're gonna talk about a little bit as well.

But what, what, at what point do you get people coming to you that they're

ready maybe to go from this DIY trying to piece it all together myself, like

to actually, do you know what I'm gonna.

You know, in whatever way it is someone to support me to do it or to do it for me.

Like at what point do you kind of get with people coming to you for that?

I find the most common point is, is when they've been in business for

say, I, well, timeline depends on really.

If you're part-time, full-time, but they get to the point in their business where

they feel like they know the customer.

They've got really clear on, oh, I wanna serve these people.

And perhaps they've then made those jumps in increasing their prices.

If they're a service-based business, for example, or really getting clear

on their product you know, the, their product range and what they're selling.

, they've answered a lot of questions that they didn't have for the answers

for at the beginning of their business.

They're suddenly sort of much clearer on what it is that they're providing

and then the realization that, oh, my, my brand actually doesn't match

up, or, I dunno how to ensure that the value that I know that I'm giving now

and really able to charge for that.

I need my brand to, to back it up.

So.

Probably the, the tipping point.

I get clients coming to me, but other times as well, it might be

people just setting up business, but it's not their first business.

It might be their second or third.

Go and they know the pain of not doing it before.

And they just know the return of investment as well.

So they've kind of been there, done that di wide changed tracks or set something

up differently and they wanna approach it with a, like a really good runway

so they've got everything in place.

You know, it's a bit like opening your shop before you're ready.

It's always gonna take you way longer to create something that looks brilliant

and is a really great experience.

If you've got clients in there at the same time and you're trying

to, you know, tidy this up and that up, we are never gonna have time.

Once you're in, once you're in your business and you get to that

point where you're busy, it's very, very hard to carve out time.

So that's the other kind of set of clients I have that I just like, I

don't want that to happen anymore.

I just wanna do this, you know, make my life easier and start fresh from the.

And then I guess when people get to that point, they're

like, right, I'm ready to invest, or I'm gonna just start like solid.

What are the things that you kind of talk to them about and why is that so important

to get it right, right at the beginning?

Yeah, well, we always start with strategy and really getting to

know their brand kind of inside out.

So before any star decisions are made, it's all about just setting the right

foundations and really understanding like the heart and soul of the business.

Really getting to know the customer and not just on a

demographic kind of profile way.

It's like getting inside their life, getting inside their brain.

If you like, looking at the, the psychographics that.

You know they drive their behavior.

Basically.

We wanna understand what their desires are, where they are currently,

what their pain points are, and how your business fits into their life.

So whether that's solving a problem for them or whether that's helping

them to realize a dream of, you know, becoming a different sort of person.

You, you know, we always start with that.

We always get really clear and then, also just understanding

where you fit in the marketplace.

So that's the starting point and then that then feeds through into

how that might play out visually in order to differentiate yourself.

So we're always looking at the competition.

What are they doing and what are the opportunities that you can

take to do things differently?

And then it's, you have so much more power to kind of stand in your

you know, just be sure that your brand is representing authentically.

What makes you brilliant and what makes you the only choice

for your ideal customer.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I love that.

When we were talking beforehand, we were talking about that.

How do you make your brand the only choice for your ideal customer?

I just think like if that's where we can all get to where we confidently

believe that we've like been the.

So specific and we know exactly who we're talking to.

And like that suddenly just takes away so many decisions, doesn't

Oh,

like, well, it's just really obvious cuz these are my people that

I'm talking to and I want to make it so I'm so bloody obvious to them

that I am the only option for them.

They cannot do it without me.

Like, I just think that makes life so much simpler than trying to like, you know, be

guided by what your competition's doing or what everyone else seems to respond.

Yeah.

And that's really, really important.

And I think we were talking as well, like beforehand about how it's really important

to look at what, you know, what you want your brand to represent and what you are.

But sometimes it can feel quite hard, can't it?

Oh my.

It can be, it can be the hardest thing and I always try and, and not sort of

overplay it to my clients being like, right now we're gonna find out your,

your deepest, you know, purpose, mission, and why, you know, it is, it's about.

. Just being able to almost see what's underneath your,

your nose a lot of the time.

So not overthinking things.

It doesn't have to be this big like offering that's like really

different from other people.

I think that the question that can set a lot of people off is

what's, what makes you different?

Mm-hmm.

You know, and then you're like, oh God.

Well, I don't know.

You know, and it can be a simple thing.

It can be, you are just, your philosophy, how you approach something doesn't have

to be sort of dramatically different service or product or, you know, Whatever

it is that you are, you are doing.

So it can be just really tapping into those like nuances that you know are

gonna be really important but also intriguing and you know, something that

your, your customer desires we'll see and be like, oh, that's exactly me.

So it's really sharing those connection points and you can do that through.

Your language and your messaging and what you represent and what

you believe in, you've gotta give them something to kind of buy into

that's bigger than the business.

And then also with your like, visuals to really kind of give

off the right signals as well.

So it is a really, well, I take a really holistic approach to the branding

process so we don't separate you know, just looking at a logo, for example.

. It is a, it is a whole process and that's why, because it just

generates bigger and better results.

Yeah, no, I totally agree.

I think, and that is another trap I think we can all fall into is like

we think about branding just as like our website colors and our Instagram

posts, and it's like it's easy to.

Of branding is just the visual, isn't it?

And actually it does start with that core understanding of your ideal client and

your messaging and who you're talking to and your values and your mission.

I thought I'd share as well.

So I'm on my third business and so like those clients you talked about.

Yeah.

And like those clients you talk about, you do learn over time that actually it's

much easier to take that decision away.

Once you've got your colors and.

A visual level, like the colors, annual fonts, like you don't need to add to it.

Like, and it's not boring for people and you don't have to keep spicing it up

and you know, to get people's attention.

Like, actually I think you gave me an amazing stat about consistency.

Yeah.

So, well, yeah, consistent brands see 23% more in sales.

So they, if you stay consistent, you know, you're more likely

to see that in the bottom line.

So in, in terms of the sales that you make.

And I think that's quite comforting.

So you can sort of take the pressure off yourself, even if you feel like.

I don't feel like it's the most inspiring you know, visuals

or, or visual identity ever.

There's just the fact that you're showing up and you're being

consistent builds that trust and that's what will lead to people then.

being more likely to buy from you, and then you can build on on that.

So, you know, another mistake is just like chopping and changing everything.

And it just, it never leads to anything that it basically just keeps you

stuck in a loop because you're, you're making kneejerk changes based on what

you're seeing because you like it.

and it just looks great and you want it, and you want your brand to look great.

So you do it and then you'll find something else and you'll, you'll never

get to a point unless you really stand true in your foundations of the brand.

And what makes, what makes your brand brilliant and you've got really clear on

that and you've got a strategy for that.

You'll continue to make subjective decisions like just

based on your favorite things.

And it's not what it's.

Yeah, and you want customers to know what to expect from you,

don't they like people like that, like when they see a post before

they even look at who's posted it, they know it's you because you are.

That's such clear visual identity.

When I was starting this business, I worked, before I started on

my, on any kind of branding.

Well, even really who I knew, who I was working with, I worked with a wonderful

coach called Colette Macbeth, and I'm hoping she'll come on the podcast.

And she did some really great stuff around like values and really, she's

talks a lot, she's actually an author and a ex presenter and she talks a

lot about like your story and like your niche and your Your uniqueness

is all about you and your identity.

And we did this big piece of work and I did this piece of work on values.

And honestly, it was a bit like life changing for me because I real,

I realized that like I'd always thought my values were like, and they

Oh yeah.

Tell me, what were they?

Yeah.

Right.

So I always thought they were things like honesty

we go.

Yeah,

and then, you know, like things that like, oh,

definitely are part of my values.

One of them, I always was bold.

Like I do, I make bold decisions.

I wear bold colors.

I'm not today ironically, but I normally wear really bright colors.

And actually that has stayed with me really strongly.

And then when I came to looking at.

My my business and my branding.

I was so, I so felt like I needed to do the like gold, pale, pink,

neutral colors because that's what everyone else seemed to do.

And I'm genuinely like, I thought it looked great.

I was like, I was so classy.

Like I wanna be the person who has a really classy brand.

And then I was looking back at these values and actually that's just not me.

Like I'm quite loud and I have bold colors and I take risks and.

You know, in my whole life, not just in my business.

So that's why my colors are quite jarring and they're like bright pink

and bright yellow and like a teal green.

And

that's what has impact

Exactly, and I've kind of li and every time I get, but

I still get that like, oh look, she branding looks really classy.

like, oh, I wish mine looked this, you know?

And you see the like, especially like the Instagram gurus, they always have that

like really neutral nuy kind of colors.

And I'm like, oh, it always looks so good.

And then I just come back to the fact that that is just fundamentally not me.

And if someone is attracted to that and wants that, then they shouldn't work with

me because that is not going to be how.

Do business with them, like it's gonna be much more like energizing and like

big and bold and I'm gonna push 'em to take risks and make hard decisions.

Yeah, exactly.

And that's what you said about giving off the right kind of vibe if you like.

So making sure that that matches up with your visuals.

But if you do go down the route of.

Cause it's a hard, it's actually quite a hard thing, a scary thing to put yourself

out there in a way that's different.

Right.

And I think just even recognizing that is is good because.

You sort of give yourself permission to be like, oh, I now

know why I'm sort of resisting it.

I know why I wanna go with the crowd and just do something that

I see is looking really nice.

But all that will happen if you do that is that you will just blend in.

So you're gonna then work so much harder to make sales so much harder

to make an impact and, and be seen.

And the whole point of branding is to differentiate yourself.

So we've all.

Try and find that courage somewhere to really stand behind your values

and then know that it's okay to put yourself out there like that.

In fact, you're doing customers a massive service by helping them think

about how much we see on a daily basis.

Again, coming back to that constant input, constant messaging.

, the more you can do to say like, oh, I do it in this way and I think you

might like it because of X, Y, Z.

It's a huge thing that you can do for your customers to help them

be like, oh, oh, I like that.

You know that that's actually helping me make a purchase decision.

And that's part of the job.

yeah.

I know.

I totally agree.

And I think.

You're right is, and it's helping people say, yeah, that's what I want.

And also, no, that's not what I don't want.

And that's fine.

Yeah, and that's actually really good.

say, and that's really good.

Like I want people in my world that are totally on board with me and my

messaging and my jarring colors, because if that irritates them or that's just,

they just find that really unappealing.

That's fine.

like, because there's other people out there who do also do Facebook adss

that are not like that and they, you know, they might be a much better fit.

It's also taking the pressure off just your visuals.

So there's a strategic reason why you've chosen those visuals, and that's gonna

work to your advantage with your brand because you're helping yourself stand out.

So you're giving yourself the competitive advantage by doing that.

And then because you're clear on your messaging, you're clear on

what you offer that's different.

Then if a customer.

Does come to you and doesn't like your branding, it's okay.

That's not gonna be the deciding factor for them because they can see

a 3D brand in front of them that is communicating in really strong ways.

So it is about really taking the pressure off the visuals and just taking that

again, like 360 degree approach to building something that should be a kind

of living, breathing thing, not just flat visuals, you know, a pretty color.

And I think especially from work, I've worked with quite

a lot of hyp birthing instructors.

Yeah.

and you know, antenatal and all lots of that kind of mum

and baby in that kind of area.

And it's really, I think it's really hard to differentiate on your core services

because ultimately, like a hypno birthing course is a hypno birthing course.

You're gonna cover like reasonably similar material.

And actually, I think it's much better if you can go down a, I'm gonna speak

to people who I swear a lot, so I'm just gonna, like, I'm gonna carry on swearing

and that's gonna be part of my brand.

And if people don't like me swearing, that's fine.

I'm not for them.

Yeah, and that's great actually.

We wanna get that polarized point of view.

So the more, again, the more you can understand your approach and why it's

great, and why it's the perfect fit for your, for your ideal customer, then it

doesn't matter that people will come across your brand and be like, oh, not for

me, because you're doing such a good job attracting the right people that you, you

know, you won't even notice by that point.

yeah.

But yeah, there, there's a lot of shoulds I think in business and especially

like, I do feel like for you know, for women setting up businesses as well, a lot

of the time we, we are people pleasers.

We have that sort of disposition.

So then really getting to the point where you're just gonna put yourself

out there is something different.

Act actively put people off, feels a really, you know, tricky place to be.

So I just think the more support you can get on that and the more you can stand

again in your power knowing that you're making these really strategic, powerful

decisions for your business, then the, the stronger, more confident we are at doing.

Yeah, absolutely.

You're right.

Like it's really hard to hear, oh, you weren't for.

Yeah,

because it's like, well, why not?

What have I

I

wrong?

Like, why don't you like me ? Like I'm a really nice

I know

Like it's really hard, isn't it?

But ultimately, like the more you can zone in on that and.

You know, it doesn't even have to be a specific niche.

What Colette kind of teaches it has, it's just you being as you as

possible and you are your niche, like what you bring to the table.

But I think sometimes it's actually allowing ourselves to bring that out

and like actually convey that, isn't it?

Like how do we convey that?

Because it can feel quite, especially on social media, quite vulnerable can't it?

Like putting yourself out there and open to like criticism and what people sort of.

Yeah, because it's like a public, you know, it's public forum, isn't it?

So it can feel really daunting.

and I guess from just kind of looping back to getting support with

this and the kind of support that you can get with it, I think, I don't know, but.

I imagine one of the benefits for your clients is that having someone

to support you with that and almost, I mean, sometimes we all need to be told

like, it's okay, like it's gonna be fine.

This is what you want to convey and this is how we can do it in a way

you're comfortable with and kind of supporting you through that process.

Is that something that you kind of get involved in with clients?

Oh yeah, absolutely.

So I mean, I, I think one of the phrases I always come back to is that you can't

read the label from inside the bottle.

So when you are really close to your brand, it's so hard to separate yourself.

From, because you do think it's a representation of yourself.

And part of the process is really kind, almost like separating.

So even when you are uh, I've worked with a lot of coaches actually,

who see is their name on the door.

It's their approach.

It's, it's a personal brand.

But even in those circumstances, Just, you've got to separate and

look at it you know, separately.

It's not it, it's then about your customer.

It's not so much about you, and it's getting that overlap that's

gonna be a kind of sweet spot.

So I can't remember what your original question was.

yeah.

I think just, I guess When you are thinking about this sort of thing,

if you are really struggling, like it is an area where like this is we

were talking about before as well.

Sometimes it can be when you're setting up a business it feels like right,

branding tick website, tick, you know, and you are kind of like, I'm done.

I've done my branding.

yeah,

And you might evolve over time and you do your Canberra and you might add in

a few another color or a new font, but.

elements

Decorative elements and different types of things and, and you know, when

you're doing your website you might, you know, change something or, you know,

add a service, but ultimately you feel like your branding is done and then this

sort of gets to a point where you are feeling maybe a bit wobbly about it.

And that's really, it's an ongoing thing that you can get support

with that doesn't have to, like, I think sometimes it feels a bit.

Frivolous is the right word.

I

yeah.

No, no, absolutely.

but is this really like, shouldn't I be spending money on

something that's like directly gonna get me more sales or I don't know.

Yeah.

Completely.

And.

Actually all the time, you know, the, this view that I'm just gonna treat myself, I'm

gonna treat myself to some new branding.

And actually it's a case of just like, you know, taking a step back and thinking.

Well, no, there's no point really in treating yourself if it's not

gonna get you a return on investment.

You know, we need to look at it through the eyes of a really

like entrepreneurial decision.

So, and that comes down to where you're at versus where you want to be.

So you're talking about kind of feeling wobbly.

It's you know, when you said again when you said, when do

clients come to work with me?

That can be a real, that's often the tipping point where

they've increased the price.

and they don't feel like their brand kind of backs it up.

So that's like the wobbly point.

But it's at that point that you make an investment to then grow your business to

you know, make sure you're fully booked to sell out that product range to get

into stores that you want to get into.

you know, so making those leaps is, is what branding and investing in

strategy and branding is all about.

So there are different points in your business where that

is a great decision to make.

And times when you don't, like, you don't really need to do that.

So when you're saying about sort of ticking off the, the branding process

at the beginning when you're setting up, if you're not really clear on.

You know what it is you want to be doing.

So you've got a vague idea and you're just gonna play it out and see what happens.

Which is a great approach when rather than standing still, isn't it?

You just get out there, you try it.

Exactly.

You know, that's not the time to be really like investing in strategy

if you're still figuring things out.

And you just want to, yeah, just see how it goes.

You might change your mind.

You might go into something else.

So having something that looks professional is ideal.

So it, that is almost like a tick exercise in terms of just getting set up and

in business and kind of open the door.

But really if you wanna start growing and being, you know, growing in

the marketplace, making sure that you're attracting the right people

that value what you do, and that we really buy into what you do.

And.

A loyal keep coming back.

They'll tell all their friends, you know, they'll rave about you.

That is when investing in like the strategic process of branding and then

making sure all your visuals and all your you know, your, your messaging and,

and how you sound, everything adds up.

That's when you really start to see the impact.

Yeah, absolutely.

And just as you were saying that, I guess I was kind of thinking how

does that work alongside your, I guess your website is your main.

Portal, if you like, alongside your social media.

But that's a bit more dynamic cuz you can start to then change

your messaging going forward.

But I guess your website is something that needs to be, is a bit more of a

chunky piece of work that would maybe need to reflect what you're kind of doing.

Do you work alongside, how does that kind of work?

Do you work alongside web designers or would that be like

for someone to do afterwards or?

Yeah, no, I do.

Well, we kind of, so basically I never work with clients on their web

design unless they've gone through the strategic branding process.

It just doesn't, it just doesn't generate the, you know, best

results I've found over the years.

So that's kind of number one.

And then it depends on requirements, so.

Client is different.

Their what they need from their website is different.

Again, being really strategic and intentional.

Some people just need a really basic site set up and therefore I would

recommend them to someone that could do that for them within their budget.

So it's really taking a sort of creative director role and.

helping them partner up with the people that ne, that suits them,

suits their needs at this time.

And whereas other people will work with them full service till the very

end because it's the right fit and it's the right solution, it's gonna

get them the right results at the end with a website that you know,

functions in the best possible way.

And I think if you're in, if you sell products and you, you are looking at

Shopify and things like that, there's so much, there's so much scope that it's.

Really, you just need a plan at the beginning to know, right, this is what

I need now, or I'm gonna invest in the whole thing and I'm going for it.

And you know, you the reasons why are, it's a financially great

decision for you to do that.

Yeah, absolutely.

I have recorded an episode with L who is a Shopify expert.

And she, her, like one key thing for everyone on Shopify was to, they've

got a new system and you have to go through and like update your template

basically to get onto the new system.

And she, her like big advice is like, you need to get onto it cause

there's so much full flexibility.

And I think really if you are, it's a, it's a big piece of work and

it's quite time intensive if you're going to do that and make that leap.

, then that's the time I guess to look at something like this as well, isn't it?

Cuz you don't wanna make that leap.

Just replicate what you've already got and then go and do

like the branding and strategy.

It's like brand and strategy.

Update your template and kind of get it all into play there.

So like really

The whole point in strategy is knowing like your business goals,

so it, it doesn't make, it is kind of working backwards if you do your

website without really knowing what your goals are in the first place.

Yeah, and sometimes you just, especially with product websites as well,

I think it's really easy to just think, well, the products are there, like the

products, they just need to be there.

They just need to be there on the website, available for people to buy.

That was such a useful conversation.

I hope everyone found it really interesting.

If you have love listening to all Helen's tips and advice, and if you want to hear

more, the best way to do that is follow her over on Instagram and it, I'll put the

link, but it's at Mom Under School Folk.

She also has a course on Domestica, which is like, what did you say?

Is that for people quite early on in the stage if you want to do it yourself,

Yes, definitely.

Yeah.

DIY kind of understanding visual identity.

Yeah.

Amazing.

And that's like a nice low-cost program that you can go through and kind of

get a bit of an, like a initial idea of kind of what it was all about.

And then if you are ready to invest, if you listened to this and thought Yep.

, that is exactly me.

I'm feeling wobbly.

I really need some support.

I wanna tidy up my brand, I wanna get consistent.

Like I wanna have confidence when I put my brand out there.

Helen does a design intensive which is over two weeks, and you can work with

her to really kind of get your brand sorted then following that as well, if

you want to really look at your strategy and brand blueprints and really kind

of invest in your brand going forward.

Then she also does those sessions as well.

So you can head over to the website, which is mom folk.com and you can

find the link in the show notes.

Fantastic.

Well, thank you so much for joining me, Helen.

It's been such a brilliant episode, and I hope everyone got a lot from it.

Thanks so much.

Thank you so much for joining me this week before you go, make sure you subscribe

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Thank you again for joining me, Sophie, in this episode of