EP 414 - Dodge Woodall reveals how he mortgaged his family home during the 2008 financial crisis to launch what became the 30,000-person Bournemouth 7s Festival.

From growing up above a pub to building and scaling multiple businesses, this is a raw masterclass in risk-taking, resilience, and real entrepreneurship.

We cover:

• Why entrepreneurship is an extreme sport

• Risk addiction and betting everything

• Scaling a festival brand without investment

• Why most people shouldn’t start a business

• The power of phone calls over emails

If you’re serious about business, leadership, or starting up - this episode is essential viewing.

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The truth is this is an extreme sport. Being an entrepreneur, you do not switch off. You are 365, you are 18 hours a day, you're non stop.

If you're making 100 grand net profit as a business, you're doing really well as an entrepreneur. But the social media doesn't tell you that. You got a festival, it's a couple of million pound risk up front.

Six months leading up to that festival, Fleur, my wife, she was crying in bed four or five nights a week thinking, what are we doing? I was like, promise you we'll do it. And I just had this. Such self belief.

Naivety in business is a superpower and people can really remember that because you can overthink it sometimes.

What's the most valuable business lesson do you think you got out of growing up above a pub? What if the best business education isn't an mba, but growing up in a pub?

From selling nightclub tickets as a kid above his dad's pub, to risking his family home to launch one of the UK's biggest independent festivals, Dodge Woodall's story is pure entrepreneurship with without a safety net. He built and sold businesses, hosted over 300 episodes of his hit podcast, Eventful Lives and Lives by a straight talking philosophy. Great win wins.

But remember, entrepreneurship is an extreme sport. If you can't take risk, it might not be for you. This episode is all about raw lessons from the front line of business.

From cash stuffed pockets in the 80s to scaling multimillion pound festivals and beyond. Today, I'm absolutely delighted to welcome Dodge Woodhall with us. Dodge, welcome to the podcast.

Andy, lovely to be here.

Oh, fantastic, thank you.

Lovely setup you got, by the way.

Yes, quite nice.

Really nice.

You know, you've got the fake plants. We've got everything. All we need is. Yeah, more, more plants maybe, I don't know.

Anyway, so Dodge, you're known for your sort of raw, unfiltered approach to building businesses. You know, I mean, it would be great to sort of start with the foundations. I mean, you grew up in a pub. Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What's the most valuable business lesson do you think you got out of growing up above a pub as opposed to harms?

There's loads, there's loads. Growing up above a pub, living in London was great fun. From the age of 4 to 18, two bed flat above a pub, nightclub next door.

This was a big party pub, two floors, thousands of people coming in and out of dad's pub.

And which bit of London was it?

We were actually, we moved around, but the, the core one for us was actually in Kingston. Yeah. Which was, which was a very lively place in the 80s and 90s.

It was very different as it is now, but it was a very lively place because you had many people coming from all over the place to Kingston. There's three big nightclubs there and Yeah,.

I did a huge event in a. There's a massive nightclub there and we presented a first artist. We had like, it's almost ballroom, like.

Yeah, that's right. Oceana. About 3,000 capacity.

Yes.

Yeah. So, yeah, growing above pubs was amazing. Absolutely amazing. I wouldn't change it for the world because you're.

I was constantly around adults, you know, I was constantly learning my trade. I was understanding how people operated, how people earned money, creating win win situations and it was just. Yeah, it was a wonderful place.

It was madness though, you know, living above a pub where there's. With lots of characters. You had doorman, you had lots of.

There was police raids, there was characters earning money in there, there was lovely people, there's entrepreneurs, There was many faces in there.

You sort of see people at their most, I guess, relaxed and honest in a way.

Everyone was just, it just seem was just free. It was just free. People were just enjoying themselves.

And I grew up with a lot of, A lot of mum and dad as well as like, go and have fun, whatever you do. Go and have fun. Be happy.

Go and have fun.

There was no rules. I was going to bed at 11, 12 o' clock at night. Most nights. There was no rules.

It was a lot of freedom as a kid and, and, and I was taught early age, you know, respect, you know, and, and self respect and respect others and, and manners and they're the things that are really, really important. You know, there's lots of things I didn't learn.

You know, dad was from East End and mum was from, from Manchester and they were both fantastic entrepreneurs, good people.

It's sort of the opposite of most people's childhood, isn't it? There's much more behave. You know, your parents were kind of like. But they, they. There's a, there's there's a double edge to that.

They're kind of like, have fun but respect yourself and others.

Yeah, 100%.

Yeah. That's interesting. And the pub is a weird thing in British society, isn't it? Because I think the British people, you know, we do struggle a little.

Well, we're just, it's just quite sort of without, without alcohol. And you wonder, you know, you do wonder now whether it Matters that everyone stopped drinking because it was so part of our culture, wasn't it?

Yeah, you know, boring.

Yeah.

You know, I say now the Gen Z go and get, go and get, go and get on the beers, go and have a laugh, go and party, go and make mistakes. No one's making mistakes at the moment. You know, the Gen Z's coming through, don't understand the world.

I'm not saying everyone should go out to pubs and get smashed and do nightclubs and what have you, but people need to learn and go learn from the mistakes you make. You know, you meet amazing people. You're constantly, you know, having a laugh at new people. You're bumping into people.

That's not happening at the moment. Everyone's just stuck in their phones and losing four or five hours or six hours in your phone.

Yeah, it's an interesting point, that combination of people's experience now not not only are they stuck in their phones but they're also not, you know, not going to the pub. And people say, well that's good, you know, the mess just got through, you should drink less.

But I would argue that the way our culture is set up is we are, we need it as a social lubricant.

People, you know, I always joke like if you're having like a, you know, they do these American style things they try and do over here for entrepreneurs and they like try and sort of pump everyone up and you see all the British people like are just dying inside, you know.

But I'm, I've been trying to persuade London partners, they say they can't do it because of the Daily Mail test, but I'm like, why don't you get everyone in and give them all a couple of glasses of champagne I. And then have a go and we'd be good.

Yeah.

And do you, did you start a business then?

I started very young, I started very young. I started at the age of 10.

My entrepreneurship world, you know, you gotta remember that dad was, dad was a man who'd walked around with a grand in his pocket everywhere he went. Just the way it was bodybuilder, he had the Gold's Gym checker bottoms. He was very well respected man. Mum was very well respected entrepreneur.

Wheeler, they were Wheeler dealers, that's what they know. They earned money and back then everything, remember everything was cash, you know, so we had a nightclub next door.

So in my bedroom was. There was one wall and there was the nightclub next door.

So every night like Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, all you could hear is come on Eileen on the mic. And that. That was just life. So I didn't get much sleep on top of that. Obviously dad loved his animals.

So we had two Alsatians and a Doberman and we had bird budget regards flying around. We had a. We had a cockatoo called Bubbles because we're all West Ham fans. That was squawk. I'm forever blowing bubbles. I'm forever blaming but.

And we had a pet monkey and it was just. It was the 80s. It was the 80s.

Is your dad still with us?

Yes, he is and he's fabulous.

What's his name?

72. Roger Woodle.

Big up Roger.

Yeah. Fantastic bloke and he. And it was just. That's how it was. You gotta remember there's lots of drunk people coming to your pub. There was.

You saw things as a kid that kids shouldn't see. I wouldn't change it for the world but boy, it doesn't make you streetwise, you know.

It's a funny balance, isn't it, between sort of keeping a childhood or naivety and everything versus to exposing people. I mean I'm slightly in your camp that I'm like, just let them see reality, you know, and let them work it out. Do you think that's important?

100 I do. 100. Don't hold things back. Just let, let it be.

You know, you, you imagine if, if everyone becomes street wise at a young age, there'd be a lot more entrepreneurs being successful because no one's taught business, no one's taught how to create women situations. The things that I was taught as a kid was from mum and dad to always create a win win situation in business. Always.

What does that really mean?

So win win. For example, I started my first so called business as a kid, like the nightclub next door.

I'd go to the nightclub manager next door, buy 20 tickets off him on a Saturday night, a pound each. I'd sell them to the, the punters in the pub. They would go, give me two quid. The manager keep a quid, I'll keep a quid.

I only get 20 quid for half an hour's work. The punters are winning because they get straight up to the nightclub and they get Q jump.

Okay. And he doesn't care because he's going to sell them alcohol.

A young age, you know, look people in the eye, shake their hand. If you're going to do a deal, you do a deal, you know, so all these wonderful things and, you know, curiosity was a big thing as a kid.

I was very, very curious and always asked, always the one asking the questions in the class because I found it hard to learn at school.

You're dyslexic.

No, I'm not dyslexic. Just didn't. I just didn't. I just knew algebra and stuff, Latin and stuff. I knew. Just didn't make sense, you know, I was, I was.

I was a. I was a young boy, but I was around adults the whole time, so I guess it rubs off on you. And yeah, my main thing at school was really sport and earning a pound note off the kids at school.

Do you think having a business plan is bullshit? Like, you know, in terms of, you know, people think they've got to have.

Qualifications, so we're jumping probably 30 years. But I've never done a business plan in my life. I wouldn't know where to start. I just know business and I'm good at it. This is business.

Entrepreneurship is an extreme sport, you know, this is my sport, you know, and. And when you start at the age of 10, earning money, there's. There's many ways of earning money, all the way up until you become adulthood.

18, 19, When you set up your proper businesses, real businesses. But you learn in your trade at a young age.

How do you. Without a plan, just winging it. Surely that's doomed to fail. What are your. What are your. You must have some principles and guys.

So you gave some, like, look in the eye or, you know.

Well, no, it all depends what business you're going into. My first business was, was the nightclub world.

Yeah.

You know, so I, I was. I went to Loughborough Sports University, playing rugby and what have you. And in my second year, I went to the local.

My mum always taught me as a young kid. Pound a man, pound a man, pound a man, pound a man, pound a man. So roll on when you're at uni.

Second year, I went to the local nightclub at a thousand people in there in Loughborough, and you're one of the main faces on campus because you're a rugby player, etc. Etc. And I went to the Light Club and I said, you're charging two pounds to get in. How about we make it three pound. I keep a pound.

You're winning, I'm winning and I'll get another thousand people in there each week. So everyone was winning again and the students were winning because we're putting on great entertainment.

How did you find other people?

They're on campus. There's 12, 000 people on campus. Oh, so you just went, yeah, you're competing against the student union or another nightclub. And.

And that was the business model. You know, in my, in my final year, I had two nightclubs, one in Wandsworth in London called Liquid and one in Loughborough. And it was.

I was earning three grand a week cash, every single week as a student. I was hit the jackpot. This is like late 90s, you know, it was serious. And then when we finished, I was like, right, I need to scale this business.

How can we scale this business model that no one was doing? You know, there was lots of big nightclubs closed in every major city around the country.

So we'd go there and say, you're closed on a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday.

How about you open the club, we come in, we promote it with flyers and posters and, and look after all the, the main people in, in town, all the students. We take the door money and you take the bar money. So that's what we did for 10 years. And, and we grew that business.

12 Nightclubs every single week from Manchester to Birmingham, Leicester, two in London, Exeter, Bournemouth, Brighton. The list just went on.

Where were you finding all the people in those?

You were going to university, setting up teams. I was setting up teams of people going to that university town, get in the rugby captain, netball captain, hockey captain.

And then we'd set up about 20 people who would be doing all the flyering and poster in for weekly parties. And then we'd go up there and we'd have family and friends running the door. So no one was taking any of the, any of the money.

And head doorman would be on the clicker. So I couldn't be, you know, it was only Monday to Thursday. We'd have 12 nightclubs. I couldn't be everywhere.

You can't be in London and Manchester at the same time. So this was pre, this was pre, this was pre social media, the world I remember, this is pre everything. This was real entrepreneurship, you know, but.

You actually pound a man's margin.

Pound a man.

You actually got it ground into your head because people forget about margin.

Unbelievable.

You know what it would, you know, business seems really complicated, but business is just selling it for more than it costs you.

Absolutely.

You know, so margin is important. And then the other thing I really get off you is, is confidence, but in a good way. Not arrogance. Just sort of like.

Do you feel like I hate that word manifest, but do you feel a lot of this stuff? It's, you know, because. Because to go. It takes a lot of confidence to go and do what you did, you know.

Yeah, we had. I grew up with no fear again. Growing up in a pub and seeing stuff that you shouldn't see with Dorman there and bouncers and I just had.

Didn't have any fear.

But it makes sense because the trouble is when you hide people for things, oh, no, you mustn't see that. It makes it seem worse than it is. It's like, oh, what is it? You know, you're like, what's the most scary thing? The unknown.

You know, it's like even, I mean, you know, my dear sisters died of cancer. And I don't mean to bring that up and sort of, you know, it's been a terrible.

But I never forget her getting a diagnosis that she's going to die in six months. And it was horrendous. But she turned around and said, to be honest, you know, bear. She called me Bear.

Like, you know, after a year and a half of not knowing what's wrong with me, like, even. Even though the news is as bad as it possibly can be, I'm still happier than not knowing. I remember thinking, fuck, what a statement.

But there's something in that, that your parents didn't hide you from real life.

You know, success is hidden behind fear.

We are very interesting.

It's hidden behind fear. If you're fear to go and try something or give it a go, you're just going to sit there and in 10 years time go, why did I not give that a go?

Just go for it.

You know, if you are in a job right now and you are really annoyed in your job and you're getting frustrated and you feel stuck and you feel trapped, but you got this idea in the back of your mind that you want to go and do a business, start, get started. You got, you got 104 days. You've got spare 104 days of 52 weekends.

You've got all those days spare to go off and do, you know, your homework and build Something in the background.

This, I always think is a mistake. If you're starting a business, don't go and speak to a load of lawyers, maybe speak to an accountant, but don't go speak.

Everyone's too nick.

Yeah, well, also they'll tell you all the things you have to do, put.

Into place, blah, blah, blah.

And actually you got to do what you did as a young kid. It's just get on with it. Yeah.

Every business that we've done in the five businesses that I've created over the last 30 years, you know, businesses.

The first business went for 10 years, you know, only 2% of business get to 10 years, you know, 10 years doing a business that's really, really an achievement. Yes. You know, the second business is the festival we're in today, Bournemouth Sevens Festival.

We're coming into year 19 still independently owned, no investment anywhere, no bank investments, no hand me outs, no give me outs, nothing, you know. And it's a 30, 000 people festival. Three days sporting music with TV crews and celebrities and sports teams and 100 DJs and big.

It's what I'm trying to get at is here, just give it a go.

What do you focus on? There must be some things you focus on when you do that.

It depends what type of business.

Let's take that business. What are you focusing on? The people.

People. It's all about people. My game, you know, in the events world and, and tech world and now the media world, it's just people, you know.

I was always curious as a kid, so whatever you brought up, I was curious as a kid. Now I'm getting paid to be a podcast host and be curious, you know, pound a man as a kid drilled into me.

It's exactly the same with the Nicholas pound a man.

But now it's gone up to 200 pound of man because we own a festival, you know, so it's amazing, your environment around you, how it shapes you, you know, if you were brought up with an accountant father, you might be more risk averse. If you were bought with a lawyer farmer, you might father or mother, you might be more risk averse and you might be too cautious or.

I grew up in pubs, yeah. And it was a free for all. You go for it, go and learn it. Give it a go, dad. Can I do that? Mum? Give it a go. Go on, off you go.

And there's something very freeing as a dad today with my 11 year old. I'm very, very much the same, you know, they gave me self belief as a Kid. That's what they gave me. My parents, mum and dad, like, amazing. Thank you.

They gave me self belief. Believing yourself that you can do something if you put your mind to it.

And if you haven't grown up with that, you're sitting there now.

If I'm growing up with that, you've got to, you've got to, you got to delve into your. You've got to delve into your, into your mind and work out, you know, what is your belief system.

You know, your belief system around money, your belief system around happiness, your belief system around building a business, your belief system about everything.

You financially motivated. When you're doing these things, you like to, you know that if there's, if you had to put a finger on why you do these things.

Oh, it's changed over the years. Financially motivated. 100. As a kid, I was like, I'm creating win wins. They're happy, I'm happy, everyone's winning.

And I'm coming out of money and I'm building a pot of money up each week. Each week it's building and building, building.

You get into your 15s and the pot got bigger and 18s and the pot got even bigger in the nightclub world. And then you get in the festival, the pot got big. I love it.

But then you get to an age where it's not about the money because you're, you're in a comfortable position. And I never like to be comfortable because I'm very happy being uncomfortable. Like, I love risk.

You know, I'm not, I'm not an addictive personality, but I gave a talk the other day on stage and at the end there was a Q A and we're talking about addiction. And then the woman was like, are you an addict? I was like, no, no, not at all. It's not sex, not drugs, not eating, whatever.

And she went, I think you are. I was like, go on. She went, I think you're a risk addict. I was like, oh, my God. Yeah, you're right. I'm a risk addict. I love risk. I love risk.

But my wife is so risk averse, you know, we've been together 22 years and she's beautiful, from Wales, like the countryside. She's about animals, she's about greens, she's about. She's. She's just very rounded and living in the present.

Who doesn't like risk, you know, but we took, I've taken massive risks all my life.

It's quite risky. I don't. I mean, now running a pub is as Tough as it comes, you know, but I probably was back then too.

Run a pub moment.

You come from an environment where. And also you've got to find all those little bits of extra income. So they're entrepreneurs all the time.

Imagine your mum and dad working together from eight in the morning until the pub closed. 11 O' clock and they're open Chris and they're open Christmas Day. And they weren't alcoholic.

Dad was obviously fitness mum, they didn't touch the boobs. But imagine being around an environment where there's lots of alcohol and there's lots of things going on. Toxicity is created in an environment.

It's all about energy downstairs in a pub. Imagine bringing upstairs into a two bed flat above a pub, you know, no, no wonder they end up divorcing. Do you know what I mean?

It's like, it's a lot, it's a lot, it's a lot of pressure and they've, they've seriously, they are seriously resilient people who are, know how to graft.

And the risk addict thing's interesting. I mean you mortgaged your house to do the Bournemouth7 thing.

That was a. Yep, that was a.

Tell us about that.

I saw the nightclub world doing, going down this way because the smoking ban, the 24 hour license with the bars and they were just eating away at nightclubs. I was like, right, I need to think of something now. I always kind of five moves ahead. I'm sensing what's happening in that world or that world.

And I was thinking, how about going to the festival world? You know, most promoters in the nightclub world would go and buy a pub or go and buy a nightclub.

Very few of us went in and said, well, let's go and do a festival.

So I come up with the idea with my sporting background, rugby background, were to create a sport and music festival that no one had ever even, never even tried to do before. There's lots of music festivals back then.

You had Glastonbury Festival, you had Reading, you had Leeds, you had Isla White, you had probably about 10 back then. Now there's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds.

But I just come to the idea, how can we mix sport and music and called it Bournemouth Sevens and we had Sevens seven aside for rugby and then we added netball. Then over the years we've added hockey, dodgeball, volleyball, CrossFit, of course.

Yeah, well that was, there's a story in that as well, but that's what we did. And, and when you're Building a brand and building a business, you are constantly tweaking and tweaking and tweaking.

But to go into creating a sport music festival, year one, I was thinking it probably cost 100 grand. We run out of money six months prior to putting on the festival.

Everyone wanted money up front because I was thinking I was going to pay everyone afterwards. Like, you know that police licensing, door security, toilet showers, marquees, wife.

And we, the only option we had was to stop or gamble the family house and take a massive risk. And you gotta remember back then people wouldn't buy tickets online.

No one put their credit card over a computer and hand, duh, you're waiting on the day for people to turn up.

And people would turn up and pay.

In cash, and pay in cash. And you know, that's a 300,000 pound risk. And if people didn't turn up, you would have lost your house. And that's the fact of the matter.

And it's a very difficult conversation to have. Andy, when you get into that situation, then you have to sit down with your fiance at the time and say, this is our option.

Option one, we walk away for it. Option two, let's gamble the house and remortgage it with your risk averse Welsh fiance. Yeah. And luckily she backed us. There's a lot of tears.

Six months leading up to that festival. This is bringing back memories now. Six months leading up to that festival.

Fleur, my wife, she was crying in bed four or five nights a week thinking, what are we doing? Why are you doing this? What we do? Do you really believe we're gonna, I was like, we're gonna, we're gonna do this.

I promise you we'll do it, we'll do it. And I just had this such self belief that you, that it was gonna work. It has to work.

This is sort of all in entrepreneurship.

This is all in. This is, this is risk as big as you can get. And there's not many riskiers businesses out there than promoters who put on events in a field.

There isn't.

No, I, I know that feeling too. I haven't done it. A bit like, will they turn up?

You know, you gotta remember back then there was no social Media. Back then, it's flyers and posters. No one could say, oh, I think we're going. Are we going? And we're not going. It was, it was wild.

When I look back now, I think I'm coming into year 19 of a well oiled machine festival. A thousand staff every day and 30,000 people and all the TV crews and all that. I look back at these days and think, what were you doing?

Yeah, what a, what a crazy gamble. I now obviously mentor other entrepreneurs and if they ever came to move this business model, I'd say, run a mile. Run a mile.

You're gonna work 362 days a year for three days of that weekend to earn all your money on the last day of that festival. That is, that is, that's crazy risk.

So you wouldn't do it now?

Yeah, I would do it now, yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. But I'm in a different financial position right now.

Yeah.

So if I wanted to go and do a festival and it costs in the seven figures, I'd have a go.

But back then, when you're building something and you're 19 years younger and your house is on the line for year one and you forget year one, we made a thousand pound profit. So you do all of that all year with all those pressures for a thousand pound profit.

Did you break that to the wife? Did you?

She knew. She knew. She's in charge of the finances. She's in control of the finances now. She's obviously financial director of our group of companies now, but.

Oh, wow.

But yeah, Melvin Ben, who owned Reading and Leeds Festival and owned Festival Republic, he came down and was like, dodge, do not change a thing. You broke even. I'm sorry, you made a thousand pound profit in your first year. It takes seven years for music festivals to break even.

Wow.

So I was like, wow, I'm onto something here. I'm really onto something here.

So year two, obviously, and it costs 450 grand in year two, so you need more people through the doors to cover the extra 150 grand. And it just went on and it took about five years to really break the back of this festival. Yeah, but, you know, you're talking, you know, a thousand.

I was, you know, 18 hour days, just normal weekend, Christmas, Easter, birthday. You're just focused on making this festival work because you had a lot of doubters.

But it's a nice mix. Even though I can imagine people, people just go for me. But actually during the day at festivals, because the music is often about.

Once the night comes, almost in a way. Isn't it the day I can imagine the sport giving a really great focus.

Oh, it's amazing the vibe. You've got to remember if you've played sport at school uni, you know, this is an adult tournament, there's 450 teams competing over two days.

It really is, it really is. I've been to many festivals, it really is an unbelievable atmosphere and vibe there.

It's funny, you take the risk, but obviously you care intensely.

So, you know the wife crying herself to sleep and things that would have had an enormous impact on your focus, on your sort of like, I'm gonna make this work. Do you think? Do you think without that maybe, maybe it wouldn't have. Did it, did it add extra fire to the bellies?

Yeah, of course. You know, I run, I run my whole life off dopamine. I love dopamine, the chemical dopamine. I love dopamine. Endorphin, I love that.

I buzz off that every day. That's my thing, you know.

But I knew if your house is on the line and you don't want your misses crying and losing the house, you've got to make this bloody thing work. And when you're so focused on making something work, everything's out of the way. Get out the way, everyone. This is what we're doing, that's the goal.

We need this amount of people. But you've got to remember, year one, you don't know how many, you know, security would say, how many? Stop. Security do you need?

I'm like, I don't know. They're like, why? I said, I don't know. How many people can turn up? Toilet company, how many toilets? I was like, I don't know.

What do you mean, don't know? I don't know how many people can turn up. So the police were like, how many people do you think you're gonna get? I said, I don't actually know.

So what did you do?

You just wing it.

You just wing it.

You got to.

What did you. Guess it was me is what I want to know.

It's like any festival, there's never enough toilets. But back then there wasn't enough toilets, wasn't enough showers. You're just, you're just trying to make this thing work.

Then you learn after Year one, you learn after year two and then you're constantly tweaking, tweaking, tweaking. The reputation's getting higher and higher and higher gear 1, 3, 79 reputation. But you know, it's. It's something you got to live and breathe.

You got to be obsessed. In my opinion, in business, you have to be obsessed if you want to be successful in something.

If it's your own company, if you are an entrepreneur, if you are the leader of those people. You know, there's so, there's so.

You know, we talk about these days, Andy, of entrepreneurship and it's a cool, sexy thing now, but in the 80s it wasn't. In the 90s, it wasn't the noughties, it wasn't. But you think about the last 10 years, everyone wants to be an entrepreneur.

Every footballer I know a rugby player I know professional, have all got business on the side, they want to be entrepreneurs.

I think it's almost. It's got more of a label now, I think, before you just be self employed. Do you know what I mean? Or it's like it's.

Social media's made it really cool.

Yeah.

When we were growing up, it was Delboy.

Yeah.

It was the Wheeler Deer. There was only four TV channels, that's who it was. And then you got into the 90s, it was Richard Branson.

And then all of a sudden there's lots of entrepreneurs, good entrepreneurs, you know, there's lots of good British entrepreneurs and there's lots of entrepreneurs as well out there who are. Who are maybe pretending to be a lot bigger and better than they actually are and haven't got the proof in the pudding. Do you say, want your prent?

Oh, wow.

Yeah, there's no problem with that. But, you know, the true entrepreneurs can see through it. The people who maybe look up to them maybe can't see, can't see through it.

But focusing on the good entrepreneurs in this country, there's some wonderful ones.

Do you ever read books at all?

No, no.

As in, like, is any. Are there any entrepreneurs who. It sounds like your parents, but anyone else who really inspired you or you took lessons from.

No, no, no. I've almost. Business books, you know. You know, there were almost.

It can help because it's. Because it's naive. It's too much advice.

Naivety in business is a superpower and if people can really remember that, because you can overthink it sometimes. Naivety and business superpower. And so is curiosity.

And these are two big things that I speak about all the Time asking loads and loads of questions to people. People say, do you have a mentor? I was like, no, I had lots, I had lots of people. I'll ask questions to who I respected.

You know, you build these wonderful relationships as an entrepreneur and you make sure that everyone you meet is a contact. That's another lesson my mum and dad taught me as a kid. Everyone you meet is a contact.

You know, my, my never lost a number and I communicate with everyone, you know.

To have 9,000 individual people's numbers, mobiles is my, is my a serious asset, you know, so it's everyone you made a contact and you are open to give your contacts away as well. There's lots of people who want to keep their own contacts and not give to. If you want to contact you, come to me.

I'll set up a WhatsApp group, introduce you to both. Good luck. You're both good people. Bam. And I'll step out. Off you go. It comes back. Yeah, it all comes back.

It's funny, that fear thing too. The amount of people I know who hold themselves back because they feel they don't know. I mean, I, you know, you see it all the time in this business.

Yeah, but I don't know, it's like, yeah, look, not knowing is, as you.

Say, it's the best place. Oh, a blank sheet is beautiful.

Stupid questions are the best questions.

Best questions. Ask the questions.

I was the kid always asking the questions and all my mates around me go, thanks for asking that because we don't want to make look stupid. Ask the questions, be curious how, who, when? Tell me more. Break that down.

Were your parents sort of. They were popular in the community. Maybe some of the confidence comes from sort of like you were respected as a family.

100%. That massively helped. Dad was massive respected because they're both very good looking people. They're both were in the casino world.

Mum was a croupier. My dad was a croupier in Mayfair in the 70s. Then they got into the pub world. They were very, very well respected and fun.

They were fun, they were happy, they were fun. They were always having a laugh. It was all about that, you know, and it's important now.

Even with my boy, every time we go to school in the morning, kind of fun, make people laugh.

People take life way too, way too serious.

We're here, we got one life. Andy.

Yeah.

I don't know how old you are,.

But like 47 I couldn't agree more about. It's a bit like, you know, I had to do a meeting the other day with a very wealthy man and whatever. You know, it's all this atmosphere.

I try a few jokes out. No one's laughing. It's just like. And I'm like, that's one of these.

I think business has gone too serious. Oh, you can have a proper laugh with people. You can go, I can sit in.

A room, 12 people.

And it's a big, I know, six figure deal for a sponsor or whatever. Go make people laugh. Don't take them out for steak. Have a glass of red wine with them like that.

But how do you make people laugh again? Again, you have to not be scared because it's about being. Playing the fool, saying the stupid thing.

But I mean, I would have said that it's like the glue. It's. It's like the superpower of the British and the Irish.

Yeah.

Is this humor and the way we can use it? I mean it was the way we can talk about things that other cultures get very awkward and tied up because we just joke around it, you know, so we know.

As a Brit, when someone says to us, I'm only putting. And sometimes they're not. They're actually really telling you they think something. But hey, you know. Yeah, more about it, man.

You know, I just. All I've done over the last 30 odd years, Andy, in business and created some real fun businesses and they've been successful.

But I've put in the graft and had fun and tried to bring happiness and try to bring jokes to things and it really does work. It really does work. Because people want to be around you. You want to be around people who are lucky, right?

I like to surround myself with lucky people. No one talks about that.

What's lucky mean?

Lucky people just. Who are just free and easy and they get lucky because they, they chat something and they meet someone. They open the door and the door.

Me, I cannot go on my. Like I'm always, you know the word, the word you said manifest before. I don't never use that, but I'm always visualizing.

And I was thinking about this on the way up here today. I'm always visual. What do you do? I'm always visualizing five moves ahead.

And when you're visualizing stuff in your mind within business, that creates luck, it creates opportunity because you'll meet someone. Might be a black cab driver, it might be someone on the train, it might be someone who you meet in a queue.

All of a sudden I get asking the questions. All of a sudden you think, bam, bam, bam.

Bam.

I'll give you a number. I can put you in contact with my friend who does that. Or here's your number, we can actually do business together. That's what creates luck.

Yeah.

You know, creating that optimism that you're always going to meet someone.

You got to put it out in the universe too, don't you? If you need something or want something, just start saying it to people too.

You got to start drilling. You got to start drilling in your own mind. This is what you're going to get. This is where you're going to be.

And you know, I speak a lot about lifestyle business in a good.

What lifestyle business. I mean, lifestyle business traditionally means a business that doesn't really scale. Well.

Well, no, I disagree.

What does it mean to you?

I disagreed. Well, I've started business. For me, it's actually again, part of self development as a kid. And. And what do you actually want your life to be like?

Does anyone ask you that at school? No. Did anyone ask you that at uni? No. Does anyone ask you that when you're in. Late in.

In proper life, when you're in your 20s, what lifestyle do you want to create for yourself?

Well, everyone just assumes the. I want to be really rich.

I want to be rich and have a car and I want to go on a holiday three times. Yeah. But actually break down what lifestyle means to you. Do you want to get up in the morning and have an alarm? No, certainly don't.

Do you want to travel when there's loads of traffic? No. Do you want to create a business that earns you enough money that you can have five, six, seven holidays a year? Do you wanna.

There's all these things you have to ask what you want. What do you want to achieve and create your perfect lifestyle? Now, if you break people down.

When I sit down with entrepreneurs, when I break this down, 90% of don't even know what they want. It's crazy. It's crazy. I could go in this, I could go in your offices today. I've seen some wonderful people here and give 20 minutes with each person.

A high percentage won't know what they actually want. They just think, well, as long as mortgage is paid, I'm gonna put some food on the table and don't. Nothing wrong with that.

No one's ever asked. Think about.

No one's ever asked that question to make people trigger to go. I've never really thought about that.

I think there's an aspect of which you're. You're, you know, confident, intelligent, you've come from certain experiences.

You've, you know, you've probably got some of that neural diversity meaning, like, you know, the way you're talking. Like I visualized it as well. Ask if you're dyslexic or something, but there's a lot of people who don't have that wiring or that background.

And then they're sitting in their job thinking, well, maybe I should be doing something else. And there's all this stuff on. I'll be an entrepreneur. I don't think, I mean, I don't think everyone can do it.

No, no.

Because I'm comfortable. Truth.

I've seen it because of the pandemic when people had lots of time on their hands like, oh, this is the perfect time getting paid to drink wine in the garden or I'm getting paid off for six months. Happy days. I want to create something. It's not easy. No, it's not easy.

And I've seen a lot of entrepreneurs, especially in this last, last 18 months, going, packing, the closing, the book of entrepreneurship probably lost 20 grand, 100 grand, 200, whatever it may be, which is lost and then going back, I need to go and find a job. Get me back in 9 to 5 and let me be secure. Because being an entrepreneur, you do not switch off. You are 365, you are 18 hours a day.

Like, you don't, you don't switch off. Then you're wanting to build a product or a service. Then you got to think about social media, you got to think about building a team.

Then you got to think about the culture.

Then you got to think about the marketing, you got to think about the sales, you got to think about the operations, you got to think about how people are, people taking sick days. You're non stop, you know, and I love the chaos when creating a new business because I know what's coming.

I know the first thousand days are going to be chaos. Whatever business I start, I love it, I love it, I love it.

There's an interesting point you're making in here is that you need to think about yourself, about whether you're really a risk taker, whether you really like it. And you said something before we came on a, you don't watch tv.

And so actually I relate to that on the, you know, I end up watching it to relax or whatever. But I actually think it's a waste of time. Like, I don't like not being productive.

It's like if I'm not learning, if I'm not moving forward, you know, and I think you're sort of leading to that. It's like I'm always on, you know, very ADHD comment. It's very like, you know, I've got this. If you don't have.

You might have an idea and you might also, you know, be fed up where you are and want to be your own boss. But that isn't necessarily a formula to, like, go be an entrepreneur. I mean, what. What are the elements?

You think it's dangerous? Yeah, it's dangerous. It's a dangerous game and it's a dangerous game that I've seen people lose a lot of money.

And if you're an entrepreneur and you end up. And you'll end up, what happens is, basically, is the excite. Exciting chapter. Exciting chapter.

You come up with an idea, Andy, I'll come this idea, what you thought. Give it a name. Let's think of a name. Buy the URL. It's on social media handles there.

They're all the exciting bit where you're telling all your mum, your dad, your uncle, your brothers and your mates. Then you go into this chapter of like, oh, well, I'm on a journey now. I'm in here now.

Then you go into this lonely chapter and it can be a very, very lonely. I don't know this because I don't know any different. So I've never had a job, but I would imagine there's a very.

I do know from speaking to other entrepreneurs and I call it the lonely chapter. And that's my chaos. That's the thousand days of chaos. Working it all out. What is your brand? What are you doing? How are you promoting it?

What is your product? Have you done enough homework? Have you done enough homework on everyone who's doing it out there so you know that your price is right?

You know, there's all these. There's so much to it. It's very, very complex.

So before we crack on with the show, please consider subscribing to this wonderful channel and to our mailing [email protected] you get free weekly from the best minds in business and free downloadable resources to strip away the jargon and give you the real world lessons. You don't get a business school. Thank you. What about meetings? And you do meetings or, you know, do you use techniques?

I'm just a phone person.

You just Ring people.

I'm. I'm. I'm a phone person. I'm a WhatsApp person. I don't do email. I've never done email.

Interesting.

Interesting. I've never wanted to do email. I have an email address. If something comes through very.

I'll ping it to my managing director or one of the directors of three businesses. Whatever it needs to be done. I'm a. There's my mobile. Call me. I'm a meet someone. I'll call you.

I don't care if you're a big celebrity or a big TV star or a billionaire. I'll call you. Let's have a conversation.

Yeah. Yeah.

If you're a sponsor, let's have a conversation. I'll take you out for a steak.

There's such value in verbal conversations.

It's the peep. I find it bonkers. I find it freaking bonkers. I don't want to swear on here, but I find it.

You swear. It's what you want, the swearing in the title.

That's a good point. In fact, I find it bonkers that people don't pick up the phone.

It's fear, though.

Fear of what?

Fear of what?

Why are you not picking up the phone? If, like, pick up the phone and speak to someone, pick up the phone and make a phone call and have a conversation. Open a door. Why?

There's businesses out there going, oh, we will do it behind the thing. We don't want to speak to anyone. Tell you what, your business will double if you end up picking up the phones. Speak to people.

All we talk about in this firm, because you have to try and you know this permanently. These email threads that I go and look at and I'm like, you can see they're getting pissed off now. I'm confused.

I know if I run my business off WhatsApp, I've got teams of WhatsApps for the different businesses.

Yeah.

And I'm constantly on WhatsApp. I know if I'm doing a deal with someone, I know when they've read it. Double tick, they know when I've read it. I'll come back to you straight away.

You ask me a question, I'll come back to you straight away. Bam, bam. Off my plate. Done. It's off my plate. It's in the balls in your court now.

I don't want to sit there on a Monday, on a Sunday night with a fear.

On Monday, there's going to be 22 emails I've got to get through and I've got to do all the nicety, start to start, and finish it off with a man, that's draining. I couldn't. I couldn't think of anything worse. I know what my strengths are and I also know what my weaknesses are.

And with my weaknesses, I just employ some quality people around me to make up for that.

How did you work out what your weaknesses are?

I know my weaknesses.

You've always known them.

Yeah, I know my weaknesses are email. I'm a people's person. I love people.

To be fair, you're a good conversationalist. You know, there would probably be a lot of people who aren't great with their chat, so maybe that it's much scarier for them. But again, it might.

That might be another sign of entrepreneurship. You know, in a sense, if. If you can't have the chat, you know, is that important that you.

Not that you can talk all day about stories, whatever, but you know how to make people smile or, you know, you're not scared of chatting to people and you enjoy chatting to people. Is that important? Do think being entrepreneur?

I think it's really, really important, you know, if it'd be an entrepreneur, a successful one.

You've got to be able to market yourself, market your brand and be able to sell and make friends and open doors and have contacts and the list goes on.

But those two fundamental ones have been able to sell and being able to market yourself or market the brand are key for you, whether you're going to be successful or not.

It's almost like there's some things you can learn and there's loads of things you probably should learn. And there's loads of brilliant books out there, I'm sure, to teach, you know, various concepts and ideas. But it's got to be in here.

Yeah, I agree. I'm in the middle of writing a book at the moment called Straight Talking Founder. I'm also launching a new podcast called Straight Talking Founder.

Nice.

And I just want to be having straight conversations, real conversations with real business people and real entrepreneurs. Whether you're turning over 100 grand or whether you're turning over £30 million, the conversation is the same. I'll dig deep and find out how.

I find out how your journey, how did you get there? What struggles are you doing today?

And I really feel I can add a lot of value to people, especially the listeners, but I could have a lot of value to the people who, who are trying to scale their business. And I've scaled five businesses, I've sold two businesses.

I understand the process, I understand the Process of selling a company, couple of companies.

So I really feel like I've been doing this for ages with everyone around me, but I feel like I just want to put it on a platform now and hopefully people may like it.

I'm sure you'll smash it.

Hopefully people may like it. I don't know.

Do you think you've obviously had on your own podcasts, you know, some people who've had eventful lives, you know, very eventful. What do you think?

You know, I mean, I don't want to use terms that are sort of disparaging to them or whatever, but you know, from the slightly more nefarious part of the world, you know, are they entrepreneurs? Is it, is it for you? Obviously we all have a fascination with that side of life. We want to understand it better.

You know, the Godfather isn't one of the most popular films of all time for any other reason. But what do you think we could really learn from people who've walked on the wrong side of the street?

There's lots to learn. There's lots to learn. People have walked on the wrong side of the street in terms of true crime.

Yeah.

The people I've had on who are from the criminal underworld or they from entrepreneurship or they're sports stars or the SAS or they're the. One of the biggest DJs in the whatever. We've had everyone on drug dealers. Drug dealers. Drug dealers are very, very good entrepreneurs.

They've just picked the wrong product which is illegal because drug dealers. There's a very fine line in entrepreneurship. Entrepreneurship is like that. You can go the legit way. A very fine line. You could go not legit way.

But drug dealers are very good entrepreneurs. They know their product, they know their value, they know what it's worth. They're very good at communicating.

I'm not advocating drugs here, but I'm going back to your question.

So you're almost saying they've got it in them.

They've got it in them. Just pick the wrong products.

And often that could be poverty related or other, you know, because I mean, the music industry has always been part of my life too. And selling weed is the way a lot of hip hop is.

Yeah.

Been funded for a long time. It's sort of like, you know, and.

It's great they've made that legal in certain areas.

Yeah. Well, actually an old friend said to me ages ago, so, well, the problem if you legalize weed, it's this economy of the poor.

Which is interesting talking to you now because it's More like you're an entrepreneur, just try and pick a different product because this is not a long term plan.

A long term plan. And the good ones is very. There's very few that haven't been caught. Majority get caught.

If you really want to be sitting in a cell for 10, 15 years going, I made a load of cash for the first three years and someone was on me for a year undercover and I got club and I got 15 years. Really. Do you know what's interesting?

The, the people who have been on the podcast from the criminal underworld who have been caught with lots of drugs or whatever it may be, they've got nothing to show for it. They would have earned millions or hundreds of thousands, whatever it be.

They've got nothing to show to because there's only so much you can keep moving this cash around because you earn 200 grand, then you put that 200 grand into a bigger deal, then that 200 grand becomes a million quid, then you put into a bigger deal.

You can never bank it.

And they get caught and you can't bank it.

No.

You know, there's only so many nightclubs you can go to and buying all the champagne, there's only so cars you.

Can have, well, good luck buying a car now.

That's what I mean. It'll all be caught. But it's interesting though, with Eventful Lives podcast is we've done 335 episodes.

That's 335 individual people we've had on from all walks of life. You know, people have done some amazing things. Some true entrepreneurs who've sold for 90 million quid or whatever it may be.

And it just makes it very, very exciting because every week I've got someone new to chat to and you learn and you understand their minds and a lot of them don't even understand their own minds. And there's a. Also there's lots of trauma as a kid that hasn't been cleared up.

So true.

There's lots of trauma and I've seen, I've seen huge amounts of trauma, you know, and I feel like a therapist sometimes because people leave and they go, God, that was cathartic. Thanks so much, Dodge, for that episode of doing that. I'm like, wonderful.

Sometimes I have to go home and take my shoes and socks off, walk around the garden, hug a tree. Figured. I mean, because you got it, you got to remember that it's.

You're taking on people's emotions and someone's telling you their life story in 90 minutes. They've got trust in you, you know, you're. You're listening very intensely.

You see, the humanity is a fascinating thing, isn't it? It's like even the person you think is, you know, could be characterized as this person is evil.

I mean, I think it is possible, you know, you get psychopathic, whatever you get people who are like mentally, yes, they are evil. They don't understand being a good person, you know, but that's like 0.01, you know. And everyone else is just complex, nuanced.

There's good and bad bits of everyone. And I'm probably, I mean, I share this feeling if, if you do like, you like to find the good in them.

I like to find good in everyone. Yeah, I like to find the good in everyone. But I'm very street wise and aware that it's not always good in everyone. I can see that my life.

Yeah, I can see it in my life.

If you had anyone on this, obviously, but if you ever sat there and thought, I'm actually they're. I'm struggling to find the good in this person. Has that ever happened to you?

No, because we only get people on who have done full circle and have redemption.

Oh, interesting. That's a requirement.

If it is business or they have done something bad or whatever it may be, it has to have redemption. You're not coming on the podcast.

Oh, how interesting.

So they might have found God. They might have found they brought their family back together.

Maybe they were big party animals in the 90s and naughties or they were in a Peruvian prison and they escaped because they did something really bad. Bad with job, whatever it may be.

You know, I know we're talking about this sort of criminal underworld here, but you have, everyone has to have redemption.

It's a bit like what happens with cancel culture now if you regards, you don't forgive, you know, if you don't allow, you know, people come out of prison and then they've said they in society's terms, they have served their time. We should be done with it now. Do you know what I mean? And the way people. Well, you know what they do?

A lot of people go and repeat. Yeah, I've had people on who go and repeat straight away and they've been bang, that's two or three times. Then they finally gone. This is stupid.

What am I doing? It all comes down to trauma as a kid. Yeah. And I normally try to help and find out what happened again.

It triggers, it triggers people, you know, to really try to clear things up as much as we can in such a short space of time.

Well, the irony, isn't it, that you suffer violence when you're young, you become violent.

Yeah.

You know, you think it'd be the other way around. And I think a lot of us experience things as kids and we swear to ourselves, I'm never gonna do that.

And then one day we do it and we're like, oh my God, I'm. I'm just the same. I mean, there's genetics, there's other things going on.

But you are your par. Parents whether you want to, whether you like that or not. We are our parents. A lot of people don't want to be that like their parents.

I really want to be like my parents. You know, I would choose my mum and dad if I had to choose out of a thousand people.

They're amazing role models.

Properly, proper, yeah. But real down to worth good people. You know, as an adult now, you start to reflect, you know, and it's important for me, bringing up our boy.

He's not obviously I would never want him to be in the pub environment for the stuff I saw. But I tried to give him the gifts I was given as a kid, which were really simple gifts, but are very powerful.

I think it's back to this point because I think it can be a dangerous one. Like you say, everyone's out there saying you should be an entrepreneur or that's the sort of thing.

And then, you know, we've got people who are, you know, really suffering economically in this country, got problems and stuff. I think we just have to recognize there are a bunch of people who are good at that.

And then I think the sad bit for me is that, you know, the environment here, unfortunately, you know, some of the narratives, it was the rich fault. It's like the word rich is really loaded because actually if you break that down, people, people sort of think in their head, yeah.

People who just got piles of money from their daddy or something. It's like reality of the rich people is that hell of a lot of them are the entrepreneurs who've succeeded, you know, and they're not bad people.

They're not the problem.

If I don't want to live in a society when we're pointing at anyone saying it's their fault, you know, so there's something going wrong which is driving the entrepreneurs away. But I think there's so much still good, you know, like, like humor and stuff, you know, so many good things about it in this, in this country.

But it's. Don't sit there and Think, oh, I should be an entrepreneur. I think you need to think deeply. Are you one inside, you know, or.

Have you got people say to me, what is entrepreneurship? I said, finding a problem that pisses you off and solving it and trying to see if you can earn money from it.

Yeah.

What else does that again? Don't overthink it. Keep it really simple, Keep it really simple. But entrepreneurship is hard because I like the idea of being taxed.

I love being taxed.

But tax me on my profit, don't tax me on everything before I even make a profit because you're going to make me not want to employ more people, unfortunately.

And I agree. And you know, our mutual friend James Sinclair's obviously hugely passionate. I love James, he's an amazing human.

You know what? James is a good friend. I love him to bits. And he's one of the best entrepreneurs in the country.

Brilliant.

He invited me on his podcast and we had an hour, he interviewed me, we had two hour chat and it was brilliant. Yeah, absolutely brilliant. And he's full of love. He's full of love and he is juggling, he's juggling a lot.

But I mean, the trouble is, is someone who's taxed, that's my profession is. I know. How are you the tax. Yeah, I'm a chartered tax advice.

Right, stop, stop. Get me out of here, please.

No, I'm on the good side.

Are you on the good side? Yeah, good, good, good.

But the, the unfortunately, the whole stealth taxes, the whole taxes. You, you know, they have a division of HMRC about simplifying tax and all that's happened as tax gets more and more complicated. But also if you sim.

You know, that's how they get you. It's like, it's easier to get you in all these little places politically, you know, it's like there's vat, there's this, this. That's crazy.

Tweak it, tweak it, tweak it. Because if you had one headline rate and you just said.

Because I said to Jay as well, you're basically saying, screw all the other taxes, tax me at 40. Corporation tax or whatever hit me hard on corporations, on my profit, on my profit. Yeah, corporation tax hit me.

But I just know that architecture is how you would.

You're not going to unravel, you're not.

Going to unravel it.

Something's got to, something big's got to happen to unravel that. But the problem you've got is for me to go and employ a managing director for 100 grand. I've got to go and give the government 15 grand every year.

Yeah, 15 grand I'll give the government just to employ someone for 100 grand. If I go employ someone, I've got to give the government that. That's not incentivizing me to go and employ more people, employ hundreds of people.

You want to be incentivized. We're not incentivized as entrepreneurs.

We're not. And actually that's a good example of a tax. It's really in most countries called Social Security. We call it national insurance daylight robbery.

But we're basically paying for pensions that are almost worthless in the health system. So you get into those very complex questions. No, no country in the world can really afford its health system.

You know, employers tax is daylight robbery. You're giving the government money to employ people. Yeah, don't, don't charge, don't, don't sting us on that.

Let us build our business up so we can actually earn money that we can actually go. And the vat at 20 is way too high. Yeah, it's way too high.

Even if you just eased it to 15, every entrepreneur, every small business owner will go, oh, I've got 5% more in my pocket.

The frustration thing, whether it be the Laffra curve, all these things is proven globally. When you lower taxes, you get more. You know, the frustrating thing is they.

Know what to do, they don't know what to do.

But the, the, the, the there is knowledge to show. If you want to go for growth, you need to, I mean, they're about to bring in this employment law.

It's coming so you can have immediate employment rights for all employees. Huge process costs. And I was sitting there, we will all be looking at it. And I was trying to work out who wrote this thing, like, what logic.

And I've read it, I've looked it, I've tried to be positive, I'm trying not to be a dick about it. And I get to conclusion. It's, it is.

It's been written by a trade union who obviously thinks that money companies have infinite money and that they're bad. Then a fair, you know, they're up to it and we need to crack down on them because they're screwing the employees.

And look how you've talked about your staff and your team. It's like my experience of entrepreneurs. They care so deeply about humans.

They are not, you know, they will, they will take less out the tin to make sure their tin's okay.

I was always taught got buy My mum and dad break even in every business you do and everything above that is a bonus.

Yes.

And that's again, this is what I teach like it's. If you can have that attitude, everything's a bonus. You haven't got to go, I need to get 100 grand net profit.

If you're making 100 grand net profit as a business, you're doing really well as an entrepreneur. But the social media doesn't tell you that.

No, social media tells you if you're making half a bar or a million quid, 100 grand net after you're paying everyone off, you live with a hundred. That's a really good business.

Well, you've just hit on what was not understood by the government and you know, not. Not to get into the politics but is in. They didn't appreciate how many entrepreneurs live on break even. And actually it's.

You're really nice what you're saying there. Aim, like aim as a minimum. And also don't be ashamed. That's not a failure.

Yeah.

That's a business.

Yeah. I know you money is 80 plus. Businesses don't make any money right now.

Oh, I tell you from my clients. You know, people are like be. Some clients come in and they're like, well, we haven't done very well. I'm really sorry.

They apologize to me and I'm like, listen, John.

Yeah.

Everyone's like this, you know.

Yeah.

Everyone's books could be better. Everyone.

No one talks about this, Andy. No, because no one wants to be seeing that person going, oh, I made a loss, I made a loss.

Or if you're in a job and you get made redundant, you then don't go on Facebook and go, I've been made redundant. People, you slip underneath and go, I hope anyone doesn't find out that's why the unemployment rate's doing that. But no one's talking about it.

No one's talking about this unemployment rate. And it's happening fast. I'm seeing it around with many of my friends, businesses. Everyone's going, getting rid of people.

Everyone's getting rid of people.

Well, it started with the ni I. Plenty of clients like you. It's the bonus. They would live off the dividends.

Yeah.

Top the profit. I remember Tom, one of my first clients ring me up like that next morning, he's like, I've done the maths, mate, I'm not going to make any money.

So I was like. And we chat about it for 10 minutes, we're going to do. And he's like, oh, yeah, he's got a business in. He's got an office in Ukraine. Yeah.

Harm or staff in Ukraine. Yeah, done. Right, done.

You know, or imagine if you're a business and you were borrowing money off the bank.

Yeah.

So you're making a profit at the end of the year and you've got. Just paid the bank off and you're left with nothing.

Or you don't make a profit, then you're in debt to the bank and then you've got to work out so you. No one wants to. No one wants to run a business. And actually, after three, four years, run that business. And they're drilled into the ground.

One, they don't like it. Two, they're not obsessed by this business. Three, they've had enough. There's too much pressure and it might be burnout, like you said.

I don't know what burnout is, but it might be like stressing and they've got to fold it. They've got maybe a underground 200 grand, 300 grand, 400 grand final around their necks, the rest of their lives in debt. Having to pay someone back.

Even if you like. This is real. It's very real real what's happening right now in the country.

It's happened for years, don't get me wrong, but I feel this last couple of years, people are getting. Their businesses are getting squeezed and squeezed every day, and I'm seeing people just getting squeezed.

As the days go on and the weeks go on, I'm seeing more unemployment. I'm a real optimist, by the way.

I can tell.

I'm a massive optimist. I just like, you know, business. But I'm also been in the game for many decades and I can see what's going on.

I think it's one of the, you know, and I'm not old enough, but I work with my dad every day. He's 83 and he. He's. He's dark about it. He's like, people are massively underestimating how bad this situation is.

Your dad say that?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's like. He's been around the block.

Yeah.

He's watched the 60s, 70s. We still work together every day. He did a speech for the staffs. People came up to me at the party and were like. Because they were worried.

It's a bit negative. He was just being real. He was like, there are far too many people not working and not.

You know, we've had him on this show and he's become incredibly popular. But to me, it's populism, what he's spreading. Cause it's half true, half not.

The Gary Stevenson thing is then to say, because people are gonna lose jobs and get poorer and say it's those rich people's fault. And that to me is the most dangerous. The people I know are leaving.

They're like, I didn't expect a thank you card, but to be then resented for what I've done. I'm. Yeah, you know, like, I've got.

I've got six, I've got about eight friends now. They've moved to Cape Town, they moved to Dubai and moved to Portugal. They employ lots of people.

We're taking the best minds out of our country, the best entrepreneurs. We're employing people with the greatest minds. We're taking, put them into other countries. What's that going to do to our own country?

I'm here to stay. I'm proud, very patriotic British businessman, entrepreneur. And I'm here to stay. But I can see what's happening.

How do you react to it? How did.

How.

What. What do you do as a bit. Because we can't control our environment. And I think, by the way, if you're not aware of it, the employment bill is coming.

You talk to employment laws in this office, you talk to real businesses. What that really means is, let me give you an example. You decided to give everyone private health care.

Private health care has been doubling every year for the last however many years. Suddenly you can't afford it as a business.

So now you sit down with your team and say, look, I know I said, I'll give you this all, but it will kill my business. We're going to be bankrupt. So I want to adjust your contract so it's called har and referred. So you basically do new terms. Will all.

You all accept it now, it is going to be illegal to do any of that. That is immediately unfair. So what actually happens, you say, I'm going to go bankrupt and I cannot adjust your terms of contract. You're fired.

With shutting the business. It's these things. You don't get what you think you get. It sounds bad, but the immediate employment rights, you know, meaning that.

That you'll have to go through a process from day one to consider. It's just madness.

It's painful. Even. Even listening to it's painful.

Yeah.

What's going, I don't mean that. And you said it. I just mean listen to. Because I know what's coming. But, you know, I think, how do you react? How I. I try to stay in my bubble.

I try to not let the noise get in the way of my mind. I try to protect my subconscious mind, my man, the person talking to me about what we're doing.

I try to get to a point where we try to make it really lean, make it leaner than it's ever been in terms of what the costs are. And then everything after that is a bonus.

It's unfortunate you have to look at your team and say, you know, I'm only keeping the best you.

If you got to, you got to do. We got to do it. If you're looking after you and your family, you've got to make some tough decisions.

And, you know, as an employer, it's a lot harder to get rid of people than it is an employee to go hammer, notice them off after a month. See you later.

Yeah.

You know, nothing, nothing is in. Nothing really is in the employer's favor, you know, but then, beauty of being an entrepreneur, you haven't got set earnings.

Your scalability of earning is untold. So there's beauty in that as well. And there's beauty in dividends. There's lots of beauty in certain stuff. And also in investing.

You know, I never normally invest, but I've invested heavily in this company called Jack Just Ask a Question, A P. It's a mental health app business. Nice, wonderful business. I think it's going to be a unicorn, but. Yeah. This is a nice conversation, by the way. I didn't realize.

I didn't know what conversation we're going to come into, but this is a.

Really good to have you on, man. You're a great, great, great mind. I mean, I think the. I think the other thing as a country is we all need to grow up a little bit.

You know, I think the. The 30. You know, I think the London Tube strike was a great example of sort of them wanting 32 hours a week.

And we're as entrepreneurs, sitting there thinking, I'm gonna have to get my staff to work more, or do you know what I mean? I need less for more. You need to work harder. I need to work smarter.

But staff, yeah, I know. Go and get a job for the civil service, the government. You can work from home two, three days a week. No one can really get rid of you.

No one really knows what you're doing. You're safe.

Yeah.

Horrible to say. I've got friends who work for counts. Lovely people. They go, we're so safe. I'm wife home, two, three. No one knows what I'm doing.

There's no account, there's no real accountability.

Well, I, when the HMRC ever want to come for an inquiry, I always have great pleasure and saying absolutely 9am because they don't get out of bed 11, 12. They want to.

I feel sorry for the, the, the, the car dealers, the, the people selling boats, people selling houses, people like real, real business.

Like we spoke about restaurants, bars, whatever stuff that we all find happiness in, you know, happiness in going to the local pub, but pubs are closing down 10 to the dozen right now. You know, that's where we go and have a laugh. That's where we go.

And no, if you're a lonely person and you're in your elderly, you go to the bank to go and have a chat with someone. The banks are closing down. Used to go to the bingo hall if you're elderly and go and have a chat and socialize and have interaction. That's all gone.

You know, everything, everything is going very quickly. The banks are going like. It's, it's a, it's a, it's a very, very.

We're at a point now where the world is changing very, very quickly as we know it's getting more and more difficult for people.

Yeah.

You know, so.

Well, there's a funny thing in what you're saying because there's a lot of things that are disappearing in society that cause, you know, cohesion actually business and entrepreneurship. And I feel it like, I feel it when I talk to, you know, James Sinclair. You're full of heart, full of love.

You know, I mean, you, you, you reached out to us, you reach out to people, you want to talk to people. And I think there's something in that too, is that, you know, if anything is dividing us is, you know, it's probably the social media.

But this politics of envy that I'm sure people look at you dodge and they hate you for your success. You know what I mean? But there'll be that net.

But I'm almost reaching out into that world to say, don't like, you know, that, you know, if you, if you, your entrepreneurs in your community, celebrate them, you know, help them, they're. They're the people just trying to take the risk you to build businesses. They're not, I hate this word rich, rich people.

It's like, it's such a derogatory.

I am seeing in this country is the rich are getting richer. Yeah, they are. Whether you like it or not, they are. The middle class are blending in with the lower, the, with the poor classes.

And I'm seeing that happen very quickly and we've got lots and lots of friends in all classes and I'm not here to take sides or whatever, but.

But the middle class, the people who'd have a couple of holidays a year with their kids, with their family looking after, they're now at the end of the month going, we can't make ends meet. No, I've got, I've got school. This is another one. I've got school. Teacher friends. Can't make ends meet.

They're a couple, been in this pride, working a private school for years. Their salary doesn't. They can't afford to pay their mortgage on the house and try to live.

So they've gone back on, on campus where the school is because they get a free house there and trying to make ends meet again. Now these are people who give their lives for teaching kids. I feel sorry for the nurses and doctors.

I feel sorry for ambulance people who get abused when they go to. When they go and to do a job.

I feel sorry for the police who are walking around the street knowing that they don't really believe in what they should be doing. Or should I really go and chase that guy out of a shop because he might pull something on me. But I've got, I've got two kids at home and a family.

Do I really need the headache for 40 grand or 38 grand? I don't need the headache. I've just let it be.

It.

I feel sorry for a lot of people, I really do, who are in that world.

I think you've given a real masterclass there and just, you know, be, be naive and believe and you know, pick up the phone. But you know, what happens next?

Let's say we've got the business going, it's running, you know, what have you done with your businesses in terms of scaling or selling them?

Scaling's key, you know, if you want to build a business, you always build a business in the mind that you want to sell it because then you look after your finances, you keep everything tight, you keep a strong team, you build culture and you need to package it up so that you, the person who owns it, make sure the best case scenario is when you package a company up, that you go to sell it, that you are not needed. Of the two businesses I've sold, I've had 100% money up front. No, earn out.

God, this is such a good point. It's very hard to do sometimes because they always want you, they always want you.

But you have to stay strong.

You build it in a way that you put the right directors and management in place that you step out of it and you tell them, I'm not in the day to day business, I'm not in the operations, because I'm genuinely not in the operations.

Is an earn out a bad thing to do?

I mean, I don't have it on now. I want to sell. Gone. Done. Thank you. Go. It's all yours. I'm on the end of phone if you need me.

But you've got my management team or my direct team of directors already there because they go, go with the business. But there's an art in that. And, and I haven't been taught this but, but selling two companies now, it's.

I feel like it's a real, for me a big achievement to sell big achievements at one company. It is lucky.

It is really hard to sell it. And did you sell it to multinationals?

Yes.

And what, what, what did you get wrong? What would you, what did you learn.

That you got wrong in that naivety? In my first business, the first one we sold, the sportswear brand, built that for eight years.

They knocked on the dorms like, like, we've been following you for three years, we want to buy you. I was thinking you take. Is this a joke? Like I thought it was my best friend.

But it goes to show that if you build a brand and you build your socials well and you present yourself well on LinkedIn or you people are watching you, whether people are liking and commenting, you'll have thousands of people watching you. So you got to keep your standards high the whole time. But the first time we sold end up taking eight months.

There's me thinking, I'll be done in two months. Lawyers, accountants, that was an eight month process. You go through the emotions.

It is quite good, but you go through a lot of emotions in eight months. You go through a lot of emotions laying their bed at night going, what if they pull out? What happens then? What if they do?

Then you'll continue thinking tactics. If they pull out, is there someone else who can buy? You're constantly playing this whole mind, meanwhile.

You're completely distracted from running the business,.

Really?

Yeah.

Oh, congrats.

Online online education Tech business closed yesterday. Yeah, closed yesterday. So super happy with that. And again, 100% upfront and no earn out.

But again, you know, this is what I'm, this is what I teach is the mentorship is this is what you go through as an entrepreneur.

This is the journey, this is the lonely chapter, this is the crazy chapter, this is the chaos, this is how you scale, this is how you try to keep your costs down. You know, at the same time, it's all about the entrepreneur's mind as well. How can I improve that entrepreneur to become a better entrepreneur.

And when you work with people, it's not just about business. All of a sudden then you start finding, they open up to you and start finding about what happened as a kid. Why is that blocking you?

What's your beliefs around money? Well, mum and dad said we've never had any money, we can't afford that, we can't do that.

You're now scaling a business but you still got that same mindset. So we have to unravel that, unwrap that and feed it something new to fresh to go. Now we can move forward, you know, we can speed that process up.

When you sell a business, how much do you end up putting back on black and just starting a new business?

I'm straight in for Newman. I love it. I'm content, my mind, I'm constant. I'm constantly thinking of a new one. And we're launching the, the new Straight Talking Founder.

So now that's done. I've got three businesses at the moment.

We've got the media company, we've got the festival company and they get the online education company just sold. But now going into Straight Talking Founder as a podcast, Straight Talking Founder as a book. And I'm just here to see how many people I can help.

I've got no goals on. I need to hit this amount of people or that amount of turnover or whatever it may be on the mentorship. I just want to see how many people I can help.

I'll only work with someone who I genuinely think I can help.

I wouldn't just say, oh, come to me and work with me and if I don't really enjoy, enjoy that person's business or that person might not be a right fit for my style because you're going to get raw, real honesty from me. We'll break down your business. We're workout tactics and strategy.

Yeah, it's inspiring to hear and I think, I think also that point that you just go straight back in, you know, again, I don't the idea that, you know, entrepreneurs build businesses and then they sort of tap out and live in Marbella for the rest of their life. It'll be boring.

Well, you know, that's one of the theories of what is adhd? It's the warriors.

So the, the people in a society who like to be in a war situation, who like, you know, with any, if you took a group of people, you need some who are like, yeah, let's go fight. Yeah, yeah, let's have it. And I, I, you know, I feel the same.

It's like when the pandemic happened, I've never worked so hard in my life, but that's where I feel calmest and more in the zone.

I need to think of an online business, online businesses, because my business is physical. You got a festival, it's a couple of million pound risk up front.

You know, you have dealing with sponsors, you're dealing with caterers, you're dealing with revenue streams of tickets and camping and glamping and. And then the bar on the weekend. It's a big bougie sport and music festival.

And two months before we meant to open the doors, it got canceled, right? Yeah, it was in May.

Yeah.

So we moved it to August. It got canceled again. We're like, you're joking me. My God. So we moved to the following year. May again got postponed.

And then we moved to August the following year, thinking this is our lifeline. This is. And seven weeks before, the government said you can put your festival on.

But you gotta remember, for a year and a half, no security have been working, no bar staff have been working. We have a thousand staff to find in seven weeks. You know, this was serious pressure. But my point was in the background.

I was thinking, I need to make a pandemic. Proof business because something might happen again. And then I got my bus. The last five years I've been, I've been full on.

Any businesses gone wrong, Tits up, Complete disasters.

Touch wood. No, I've got. My first business was the, the nightclub Student Nights, which was not sellable. So you did 10 years in that. And we did extremely well.

And then we got into the festival and we still own that today, so that's 19 years.

The next business was the sportswear brand Viper 10 Sportswear, which we started in the last financial crisis as well, which we built that for eight years and that was sold.

Wow, there's a good record. Would you sell the festival? It's the oldest one. And you.

It's 19 years. There's no whether we're still independently owned.

If someone came along, is that, is that closer to your heart?

Maybe it's really close to my heart. Would I sell it? I would sell shares in it.

Okay.

Because I love it.

Yeah.

I love the risk again, like, I know my wife's like, can you please stop?

You're there for the third.

Of course.

Two, three days.

Of course, yeah.

Do you drive around in a giant golf buggy or something?

Yeah, I try not to, but you. Because there are golf buggies taking everyone around and everyone wants to chat. You know, I'm on the floor with people, I'm on the ground.

People want to chat to you, people want to have a photo, people want to ask you questions and who's the.

Person you've met at the festival that you most like?

I, I don't, I don't. I just don't get starstruck. Right.

Okay.

I don't get starstruck. I just. Everyone to me as a kid, whether you're dinner lady, whether you're the CEO of a company or your celebrity, we're all the same.

Yeah.

You know, and I was best mates for the dinner ladies, the kids, because I know I'd get seconds and thirds. Do you know what I mean? They're like, oh, yeah, come on. You always chat them up and have a laugh and they're. More food, lovely. More dessert.

Come over. They love you. And you know, that's just, we're all. I just Treat everyone the same. Business. Yeah, yeah, have some of that. Here we go.

You could have that in meetings, you know, just like flash it up, you know. So basically we're going to name some terms. This is a business or quiz. We'll show you some business terms or phrases.

You have to tell us where you think it's business or we can discuss. Clear?

Yeah. Okay. Quality.

All right, here we go. Number one MBA.

MBAs for me. Yeah. MBAs is basically your degree.

Yeah.

There's so many degrees out there. If you know what you want to do, go and do it and do it as a degree. I understand.

If you do not know what you want to do, don't pick a degree just so you can go three years away from home and end up £50,000 worth of debt. You got 50 grands worth of debt until you're 60 odd. Why, why would you want to do that?

It slows you down too. But in fact, I think you go backwards. We take in kids who are 18 and we take in kids who are 21. I mean the 18 year olds, you know, they're hungry.

Yeah, they're sometimes ahead of the 21 year old.

If I've got two, if I meet two people and there's one of a degree and not a degree and one's super hungry and sharp and get some content. Great at communicating. You're in. I'll teach you the rest.

It's also that you have to learn to talk to adults like you grew up in a pub. So one of the things, when they come in as 21, you're still used to only talking to people your age. I mean, it makes me cracks up.

I'll go up to talk to them and you can see them like, do I have to say something to the teacher? And I'm like, we're all in this together now. I'm communicating. I agree. AI created content.

For me. It's not real enough. I understand why people want to use it.

But if I see someone, if I see someone comment on LinkedIn, one of my posts or something and they've written straight, I'm going. Army going. I don't believe I lose respect straight away. Yeah, I lose respect. I understand AI is there to help. But yeah, for me, it's not real.

It's not real. Be real. Life's so much easier. Business is so much easier.

We're plagued with it now. Fake it till you make it.

I heard that. I was in the SAA the other day and this, this, this girl, she said, I've Just got this job and I, I'm just faking it until I make it.

I just don't like that saying. I don't like that saying, fake it till you make it. Like we're all winging it. It's not fake. We're just winging it. We're just learning as we go along.

But just that word, fake. There's too much fake in the UK right now. There's too much fake everywhere. And real spot, fake, fake, don't spot fake.

Very true. And actually I liked your check because it's semantic slightly.

Because there is an element of business that you've got to, you know, when you're starting out, you know, can you put 30, 000 person.

Oh, God, of course you're winging it. Of course. Okay. Of course I'll make that work. But that's self belief.

Yeah.

You know, whether you're going to end up getting that or not. But I remember in year one of the festival, I said, sky Squawk's gonna be there. I said, these celebrities are going to be there.

I said, because I've said it and it's on a flyer. I then had to make it happen. Yes, you're committed.

It's almost actually. I don't know what the catchphrase would be, but it's like just, just believe in yourself and you'll make it.

Believe, believe and you'll make it, you know, Very good. Do you know these things? B corpse. You bumped into them. B Corpse.

It's an American system that you can sort of look at your company that it's doing the right sustainability, social things. It's a framework. Lots of sort of cosmetic or food companies will do it, you know. Well, lots of companies do it full stop.

So I mean slightly virtual signaling, but it's, it's, you know, it's a real framework to say, you know, am I by being nice to people or doing the right things?

I guess if that's what they got to do and they got to do, it's part of business and they got ticks and boxes.

Fair enough.

I don't know too much about that. But if they've got tick boxes, that's what they've got to do. So I'd probably go business.

Fair enough. Influencers, business or you are an influencer.

I don't like the word, I don't like the word influencer. I think it's got connotations of people being paid to post something on social media. I like to be a creator where you're Creating stuff.

You're creating content. You are creating. That's just me. But people may see me as an influence. I just don't like the word influencer.

I think just because you've got followers, the idea that you're an influencer, particularly, I always say, like, how old of these followers. People like what it's like. Well, look, hang on. If Everybody is under 15, you know,.

There's lots of influence with lots and lots of following. But don't have a business.

Yeah.

But from the outside, they pretend they might have a really successful business, become a creator. People believe. People believe in you. People listen to you on different channels. People will see that you're the same voice, everything you do.

And that creates trust.

Yeah.

And then when you've got trust, you can do business.

Yeah. It's all about trust.

That's all you got. Yeah, all I've got. And it is my reputation. That's all I've got.

Yeah.

I'm gonna be left with. I've just got my reputation. If you are someone, I like him or I like his work or whatever they may say or.

Yeah, you can't let you. You can get away with the odd error, but you can't let people down or not do your word, is it,.

You know, a man of my word.

Yeah.

Yeah. That's another wonderful gift my old man taught me. Man of your work. Shake someone's hand. That's good enough for me. I've done so many big deals.

Just shake the hand. It doesn't really go. It has to go back to lawyers. But I've done so many deals when we haven't even used contracts.

He didn't give me the card for it. But out of pure curiosity, bitcoin business or bullshit?

Oh, God, there's. I would go. I would go business.

The face.

Reluctantly, for our radio listeners.

You pulled the most interesting face there.

Reluctantly. The only reason why is because I. I bought bitcoin two or three years ago and I don't know what it is at the moment I bought it.

I said, I'm never going to look it until the day I need to look at it. I don't get caught up with, oh, it's gone up to. Gone up 2 pounds, not 30 pounds, but people are making money from it, so it is a form of business.

But would you take. You know, it has never. It hasn't really ever taken off. But the idea is, people, bitcoin, I'm.

Sure it will take off because there's a certain amount of bitcoin I think it will take off at some point. And people. I've got friends who are deep into bitcoin and live and breathe it.

Yeah.

And they've also lost a lot of bitcoin, but they've held on. They've gone back up again. I've also know people who lost a load and got out and then gutted. They didn't hold on. I guess it's.

I don't know too much about it, but I just wanted to be in the game for. So I was in the game.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you got to skin in the game. Dodge. It's been an absolute pleasure, you know. Thank you for all you do.

I mean, what great businesses you're running and good energy you're pumping out into the world. Thank you. Thank you for coming to do this today. I think you have brilliant, brilliant advice for everyone. Really inspiring.

That has been this week's episode of Business Without Bullshit. You'll find us next week. Ciao.

Good man. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Andy, you're a good host.

Thank you.

Cheers, mate.

Ciao.