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Lost Socks, Homeschooling, and Coaching w/ Deena Stout
Episode 39 • 13th July 2023 • Barnyard Language • Caite Palmer and Arlene Hunter
00:00:00 01:12:07

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Today we're joined by Deena Stout, a farmer, mother, and podcaster from Ohio.

Thank you for joining us today on Barnyard Language. If you enjoy the show, we encourage you to support us by becoming a patron. Go to Patreon to make a small monthly donation to help cover the cost of making a show. Please rate and review the podcast and follow the show so you never miss an episode.

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Transcripts

Caite:

Welcome to Barnyard Language.

Caite:

We are Katie and Arlene and Iowa sheep farmer, and an Ontario dairy

Caite:

farmer with six kids, two husbands, and a whole lot of chaos between us.

Caite:

So kick off your boots, reheat your coffee, and join us

Caite:

for some barnyard language.

Caite:

Honest.

Caite:

Talk about running farms and raising

Arlene:

families.

Arlene:

In case your kids haven't already learned all the swears from being in the barn,

Arlene:

it might be a good idea to put on some headphones or turned down the volume.

Arlene:

While many of our guests are professionals, they

Arlene:

aren't your professionals.

Arlene:

If you need personalized advice, consult your people.

Arlene:

Another episode of Barnyard Language.

Arlene:

It is summertime, so that means none of us know what day it is, what time it

Arlene:

is, or even what month some of the time.

Arlene:

So I'll ask as usual, Katie, what's going on in Iowa?

Arlene:

What's happening on the farm?

Caite:

Arlene, this is already our second take at trying to record this update

Caite:

because the girl child waited literally until I hit the record button to come in

Caite:

and inquire about a fan for her bedroom, which was clearly something that needed

Caite:

to be addressed at this very moment.

Caite:

Yes, for sure.

Caite:

I believe today is Tuesday, maybe.

Caite:

Sure.

Caite:

And it looks like it's getting dark out, so I'm gonna say

Caite:

it's probably evening time.

Caite:

But you're correct.

Caite:

That's about all I know about times or days or anything else.

Caite:

So far this week we've had a waterline fixed because there was water from.

Caite:

By this morning from our barn to the road and not flowing into

Caite:

the house as it is meant to be.

Caite:

And then when they did fix that water line I'm hoping it was a coincidence,

Caite:

but our dishwater dishwasher started refusing to stop filling and poured a

Caite:

substantial amount of very hot water onto my kitchen floor and into the

Caite:

basement and a item on Oh, great.

Caite:

And the living room.

Caite:

Thank goodness for hardwood floors.

Caite:

Yeah.

Arlene:

So I'm guessing you have probably have an old farmhouse like me.

Arlene:

Some of that water's going then through the cracks in the hardwood

Arlene:

floors down into the basement.

Arlene:

Yeah.

Caite:

Yeah.

Caite:

It runs, yeah, the floor's at enough of an angle that it runs right under the wall.

Caite:

And Right.

Caite:

Yeah.

Caite:

Into the basement, which is handy at least, and it's a dirt

Caite:

floor basement, so it's not like it's gonna hurt anything once

Arlene:

it gets better.

Arlene:

Sure, yeah.

Arlene:

Then it's like you got a mopping, pre mopped wash situation.

Arlene:

Yeah.

Arlene:

Was it clean water or

Caite:

dirty water?

Caite:

It was clean.

Caite:

It was just a lot of it because I ended up having to go into the basement and

Caite:

find a step ladder to climb up to turn the water off at the supply line, because

Caite:

I, of course, assumed that it was, that the water was not draining, and indeed it

Caite:

was that the water was not shutting off.

Caite:

Even when the dishwasher was turned off, there was still water coming in.

Caite:

Oh, I

Arlene:

kept, just kept coming in.

Arlene:

Yeah.

Caite:

Yeah.

Caite:

And there's, the water goes through the softener first there,

Caite:

so the repairs to the waterline should not have had any impact on.

Caite:

How things were going with the dishwasher.

Caite:

It seems to just be a catastrophic I already replaced our stove hood on

Caite:

Saturday and then Sunday afternoon, I think it was Sunday afternoon

Caite:

Jim had to go pull the skid loader out of the bottom of the pasture.

Caite:

My father-in-law never did offer a satisfactory explanation as to

Caite:

why the hell the skid loader was in the bottom of the pasture.

Caite:

But it turns out that the skid loader cannot be driven through creeks or along

Caite:

creeks or with as many tractors as we own.

Caite:

Nobody is quite clear on why he had the skid loader down there, but

Arlene:

Right.

Arlene:

Yeah.

Arlene:

So nevertheless, all the water related incidents are happening this week.

Caite:

Yes.

Caite:

Also, my daughter this evening, the kids are in vacation Bible school for the

Caite:

first time, which has been An educational experience for the whole family.

Caite:

But today my daughter came home with a God's eye, which for any of

Caite:

you who participated in crafts as young people, is two Crust Popsicle

Caite:

sticks with yarn wrapped around them.

Caite:

And when I picked her up and saw that she had made a God's eye, which was

Caite:

a real nostalgic moment for me, she whipped it at me like a Frisbee and

Caite:

yelled at Ninja Throwing Star, which explains a lot about our family office.

Caite:

Maybe

Arlene:

not the, I think maybe not the intent of the craft, but yeah,

Arlene:

that's a good way to use it too.

Arlene:

Yeah.

Caite:

Yeah.

Caite:

So that's about how things have been going here.

Arlene:

Yeah.

Arlene:

And you got to go away as a human who is a individual as well.

Caite:

I did.

Caite:

I went to Suburban Dayton, Ohio.

Caite:

And visited one of my good friends.

Caite:

Hi Jamie.

Caite:

And had a lovely visit.

Caite:

It was very chill.

Caite:

Only downside was that on the trip home I ended up with a, I think,

Caite:

five hour layover in Chicago.

Caite:

That should have only been an hour because apparently the air conditioning

Caite:

on the plane stopped working.

Caite:

So it was working when the plane was in the air, but not

Caite:

when it was on the ground.

Caite:

And it was 90 some degrees in Chicago, which meant that it rapidly got too

Caite:

hot for them to board the airplane.

Caite:

So we had to sit there.

Caite:

Until it cooled off enough.

Caite:

That's a

Arlene:

valid reason.

Arlene:

Yeah.

Arlene:

Yeah.

Arlene:

Planes are, can be uncomfortable enough during the boarding process,

Arlene:

but if they're they're also as hot as your car when you open.

Arlene:

Yeah.

Arlene:

Open it up in a, on a sunny summer day that's not a

Caite:

great starchy.

Caite:

Yeah.

Caite:

And even once they got it cooled off, it was probably still 90 some degrees

Caite:

in air and it was one of those little commuter planes, so they wedged it full

Caite:

of people and got us into the air as fast as possible, which was deeply appreciated.

Caite:

But it was, it was real warm and real, real sticky in there.

Caite:

Not delightful.

Caite:

But it was fantastic to spend the 4th of July with small children, knowing that

Caite:

when they started screaming and there was crying and there was, fireworks

Caite:

that none of it was my responsibility, which was really quite nice.

Caite:

Someone, yeah.

Caite:

Someone

Arlene:

else's kids.

Arlene:

Yeah.

Caite:

Yeah.

Caite:

How have things been at your place, Arlene?

Arlene:

Things are good.

Arlene:

I would say almost, I hate to say it because after I've heard of all your

Arlene:

water issues, I feel like I'm tempting fate here, but quiet and almost boring.

Arlene:

I say that with with bated breath, but yeah, some hay's been happening.

Arlene:

It's been really hot, so we are lucky enough to have, not air conditioning,

Arlene:

but when we renovated the old farmhouse that we live in, we put in geothermal.

Arlene:

So it has like a cooling ability in the summertime and it heats

Arlene:

the house in the wintertime.

Arlene:

The house stays pretty cool.

Arlene:

So a lot of the time we're trying to stay inside.

Arlene:

We installed a bunch of fans in the barn last year, so the cows are

Arlene:

actually staying in more than normal.

Arlene:

We typically do still let our milk cows out, if not every

Arlene:

day, every other day at least.

Arlene:

But when it's really hot, they actually prefer to be in under the

Arlene:

fans rather than out in the blazing sun with a lot of them are black they,

Arlene:

they don't enjoy that quite so much.

Arlene:

So yeah, lots of fans while we're milking and staying cool.

Arlene:

We've been spending a lot of time swimming tonight, like you said

Arlene:

it's Tuesday when we're recording and in our little town, the.

Arlene:

The bagpipe band practices on Tuesday nights.

Arlene:

So we were down at the waterfront, the kids were swimming and we were

Arlene:

listening to the bagpipes and the drums practice and watching them

Arlene:

march around and get ready for the summer parades and things like that.

Arlene:

So that's fun to get to listen to bag pipes and watch your

Arlene:

kids swim at the same time.

Arlene:

Not a, not your typical beach music, but it's pretty, pretty cool.

Arlene:

And in other news, I don't know, I think it's been a couple weeks actually

Arlene:

since we recorded, so we'll say that we have a graduate in the house.

Arlene:

We have someone who has finished high school officially.

Arlene:

She wore the cap and gown and did all those things.

Arlene:

And we had a nice lunch afterwards with the grandparents

Arlene:

and some aunts and uncles.

Arlene:

And of course, my sister brought her inflatables.

Arlene:

So we had a nice Gathering of people who met her outside the

Arlene:

high school as she exited from the ceremony in their inflatable costume.

Arlene:

So that was pretty fun too.

Arlene:

And all three of her brothers actually put inflatables on.

Arlene:

I wasn't sure how they were gonna feel about that.

Arlene:

I left it to my sister to decide who was gonna come and get

Arlene:

dressed up, but they all did.

Arlene:

So that was pretty fun too, to see everybody waiting outside for her when

Arlene:

she was done graduating high school.

Caite:

The pictures were pretty cute too.

Caite:

Yes.

Arlene:

Yeah, it was a fun day.

Arlene:

Yeah.

Arlene:

So I think that's, The basics of what's been going on around here.

Arlene:

Like I said, boring.

Arlene:

There's been two cow shows so far and another few on the calendar.

Arlene:

So I make it to some and not to others because I think, like I said before,

Arlene:

my boys are not so much into cow shows, but my husband and a daughter are.

Arlene:

So they'll be going to some of those and the boys and I'll be doing

Arlene:

other things on some of those days and some of the more quote unquote

Arlene:

important ones I will go and watch.

Arlene:

But I think the next couple I might opt out of.

Arlene:

I don't mind a cow show, but I can also enjoy not watching cows in their

Arlene:

best hairstyles walk around in very hot

Caite:

fairgrounds.

Caite:

I was gonna say the the temperature.

Caite:

At many summer couch shows really does detract from the yes level

Caite:

of enjoyability that one might

Arlene:

respond.

Arlene:

Yeah.

Arlene:

And how much cover there might be too.

Arlene:

Some of them, if they're a fully outdoor situation I'm less excited about spending

Arlene:

my whole day and blazing sun watching cows, but I will definitely make it to

Caite:

some of them.

Caite:

I will say we took the boy child to the national Normandy show

Caite:

when he was about 16 months old.

Caite:

It's fairly, it's a few hours from here.

Caite:

And it was, at a fairgrounds.

Caite:

It's a nice little show, and none of us had really considered

Caite:

that what he knew about cows was to start screaming, come boss.

Caite:

As soon as he saw cows coming into the ring.

Caite:

So it was, thankfully people thought it was cute.

Caite:

Hopefully.

Caite:

Yeah, but it's, we have some pretty sweet videos of him calling cows.

Caite:

Yeah.

Caite:

Calling 'em in the middle of a cow show.

Caite:

Yeah.

Caite:

Yeah.

Caite:

Why

Arlene:

are they not coming or moving in the way that I want them to.

Caite:

Yeah.

Caite:

Yeah.

Caite:

Oh, and also a bunch of our cows got out yesterday, so that was a whole thing.

Caite:

Oh, great.

Arlene:

Over the water line or in a different zone?

Caite:

Around it, they could have really made a delightful mess.

Caite:

It was leaking badly enough that I could literally watch water bubbling

Caite:

up out of the soil, which Perfect.

Caite:

When the line is six feet down I shudder to think that the electric

Caite:

bill is gonna look like next month.

Arlene:

Guess right?

Arlene:

Yeah.

Arlene:

Yeah.

Arlene:

That means your ground has been pretty saturated.

Arlene:

Yeah.

Caite:

Yeah.

Caite:

Yeah.

Caite:

And how does the grass look?

Caite:

It's out in the driveway the driveway looks real.

Caite:

Real perky, if that's maybe a bit mushy too.

Caite:

Yeah.

Caite:

Yeah.

Caite:

And we had a heifer in heat for the last few days, so there's been a lot of noise

Caite:

and water and more water and Right.

Caite:

Also, it's been a great week, it sounds

Caite:

. Arlene: Shall we introduce

Caite:

week?

Caite:

I suppose we should.

Arlene:

Today we are talking to Dena Stout, who's.

Arlene:

Joining us from Ohio and Dina, we start each of our interviews with the

Arlene:

same question, and this is a way to introduce yourself to our listeners.

Arlene:

So we always ask, what are you growing?

Arlene:

So for farmers that can cover crops and livestock, but it

Arlene:

also covers kids and careers and businesses and lots of other things.

Arlene:

So Dina, what are

Arlene:

you

Deena:

growing?

Deena:

Oh, we grow everything from beef to kids and we are growing grass

Deena:

fed beef production, and we have six kids that we homeschool.

Deena:

And I'm also in the process of growing a motherhood support

Deena:

business that I'm helping moms through their journey of motherhood.

Arlene:

That's great.

Arlene:

So as a farming podcast, of course, people always want the details.

Arlene:

What kind of cows and approximately how many are we talking about?

Deena:

So our base herd is 25 and we have 25 mama cows and they are herford Angus.

Deena:

We usually do the Herford Mamas with the Angus Bull, and we're

Deena:

switching over to purebred Harfords.

Deena:

And we do we do grass-fed beef preferably.

Deena:

And we have 94 acre farm.

Deena:

One moment.

Deena:

Sure.

Deena:

The three year old found me, uhoh at me, honey.

Deena:

At me.

Deena:

Me.

Deena:

Okay.

Deena:

You're gonna have to go back downstairs like mommy told you.

Deena:

And you're gonna hang out with your brother and you can tell Cashy about it.

Deena:

Okay.

Deena:

Just like that.

Deena:

Oh, no.

Deena:

He today being mean yes.

Arlene:

Yes.

Arlene:

Anyone who's listening knows all about that, so that's a good good intro.

Arlene:

What ages are all of these kids?

Arlene:

Yes.

Arlene:

I'm guessing there's a

Deena:

three-year-old.

Deena:

Yes, there's a three-year-old.

Deena:

So I have a one-year-old, three-year-old, six yearold old.

Deena:

A 12 year old and 15 year old.

Deena:

Five boys.

Deena:

One girl.

Arlene:

Wow.

Arlene:

That is a lot of little people in your house.

Arlene:

Yes.

Arlene:

I love the positive cause that's what happens when I go, I've got four

Arlene:

and I do that when I go through the rages because it feels like someone

Arlene:

has always just had a birthday, so it's make sure I get this right.

Deena:

Yes.

Deena:

They're all mostly in the spring, so it's like we're all in their birthday month.

Deena:

So I'm going, who's what age now?

Arlene:

Yeah, that's right.

Arlene:

How old are they today?

Arlene:

Yes,

Deena:

exactly.

Deena:

So we are all on a 94 acre farm and we actually have farmed in two states.

Deena:

West Virginia is where the family farm like the heritage of beef farming was.

Deena:

And then we transitioned and moved our family and farm operation into

Deena:

Ohio and that's where we are now.

Deena:

So a lot of

Arlene:

farms.

Arlene:

Seemed to be tied to, like you said, the family farm.

Arlene:

How was that transition going from, not just within the state even, but from one

Arlene:

state to another and starting a new spot?

Arlene:

How did that happen?

Deena:

It was a lot of it, it was difficult.

Deena:

It was very difficult because you have all these memories.

Deena:

My, it was three or four generations on the one farm, and

Deena:

it was really hard because we had to leave like that heritage.

Deena:

And unfortunately due to family disagreements it just had to be

Deena:

turned over to different people.

Deena:

And so we had to start our own heritage and that was painful,

Deena:

but exciting all at the same time.

Deena:

So now to be able to have something that is ours and

Deena:

we're creating our own memories.

Deena:

We've had our land for four years.

Deena:

It was just open crop land with some woods.

Deena:

So we've really taken it and put it over into our style of how we

Deena:

want it, which is, good and bad.

Deena:

It's a lot of work, but it also has been really a great experience and now the

Deena:

kids really can feel a part of it because they've been through the whole process

Deena:

of it and they get to make their own memories to tell their families about.

Deena:

So it's been nice.

Caite:

As someone who is living on our farm, Our kids are the

Caite:

fifth generation on this farm.

Caite:

What do you, who do you blame stuff on when you come up

Caite:

against a stupid decision?

Caite:

Because here at least it can be like, who the hell did this?

Caite:

But if it's just you, who do you blame?

Caite:

Yeah, what, where do you go with it?

Caite:

Because I feel like that's probably one of my most common like complaints

Caite:

to the universe is who the hell thought this was a good idea?

Caite:

Yeah.

Caite:

Or who did this?

Caite:

Oh, I think, I feel like I'd really have a tough time with this.

Caite:

Yeah.

Arlene:

We

Deena:

just blame it on the previous owners.

Deena:

What were they thinking?

Deena:

Why didn't they, do the drain tile this way?

Deena:

Because like I said, there was really, there were no buildings, so there was

Deena:

only just some underground elements, like gas lines like unburied, gas lines.

Deena:

Through the trails.

Deena:

So we've hit those a time or two and have had natural gas just spewing everywhere.

Deena:

So that's been fun.

Deena:

So yeah, we have a few people we blame for that.

Deena:

But yeah, it makes things interesting

Arlene:

for sure.

Caite:

So did you also grow up on a farm, or how did you I did not.

Deena:

How did you get?

Deena:

I wanted to be on a farm.

Deena:

I was in a, just a small, typical town and I loved horses and so my

Deena:

sister and I, we boarded our horses.

Deena:

We never had the farm because my dad was from New Jersey, so

Deena:

a half acre was a farm to him.

Deena:

He was happy with that and my mom liked to look at animals, but wasn't

Deena:

very into, nature, things like that.

Deena:

But my sister and I just loved horses.

Deena:

So we spent, from the time we were like, Seven and eight just in the

Deena:

barn and taking riding lessons.

Deena:

I just always wanted to be in that environment.

Deena:

And then I met my husband who was like, yeah, I love farming.

Deena:

I, my grandparents do beef cattle and it's so much fun.

Deena:

And so we just started doing farm things together.

Deena:

And then as we started out as a married couple, we actually started

Deena:

in town on a little, like half acre postage stamp with the mind.

Deena:

Yeah.

Deena:

So we started on a little half acre with the plan to move up to the family

Deena:

farm and then we couldn't because of, like I said, just some family

Deena:

disagreements and so we decided to start our own and that's how, where we are.

Arlene:

So the, you mentioned in your intro that you're

Arlene:

motherhood support coach.

Arlene:

Have I got that wording right?

Arlene:

Yes.

Arlene:

I know you have a podcast yourself because I've been listening

Arlene:

to you in my ears lately.

Arlene:

And one of the things you talked about was teaching parents how to cope and also

Arlene:

how to move beyond coping into thriving.

Arlene:

Can you talk with us about some of the first steps when you're trying to

Arlene:

even just get to coping and then, like beyond that, into the thriving part?

Arlene:

Sure.

Arlene:

Cause that some days that feels impossible.

Deena:

Yes.

Deena:

So for me, I think the first thing is really about our thoughts.

Deena:

So as we're in a really hard day and we can feel like everything is

Deena:

happening to us in that we don't really have any control over the situation.

Deena:

And sometimes what happens is we get so caught up in our expectations of how we

Deena:

wanted things to go and what things should have looked like and what our plan was.

Deena:

And we judge ourselves by that.

Deena:

So we're like, oh, I had this set out but I didn't reach that.

Deena:

Okay, but why didn't you reach that?

Deena:

Maybe it's because you have a sick child that day.

Deena:

Maybe it's because you know something got spilled that you weren't expecting

Deena:

and now you're late for your appointment.

Deena:

And taking the time to realize that the things that happen we

Deena:

can't always control, but we could control how our thoughts about them

Deena:

and that it's so important to not be judging ourselves so harshly.

Deena:

And we really need to show ourselves mental compassion and to understand

Deena:

that was a great goal and you had every intention of doing it, but due to life

Deena:

surprises, limitations, it didn't happen.

Deena:

That was a perfect plan, but now what actually happened?

Deena:

And how to really control your thoughts in your day-to-day as to

Deena:

how you deal with your motherhood and how you deal with different things

Deena:

that you're thrown into the mix of.

Deena:

And for myself, I started out with, I always felt that I needed to work

Deena:

harder, do more, and that there was a problem with me because I wasn't

Deena:

reaching these high expectations that I had set out for myself.

Deena:

And so I felt that people could see how hard I was trying and that

Deena:

they needed to help me because I felt like I was struggling.

Deena:

Everybody else felt like I was succeeding, and there was this dis disconnect.

Deena:

And I'm going, I'm so worn out.

Deena:

I'm so tired, I'm so frustrated.

Deena:

Why is nobody helping me more?

Deena:

And it really turned out that I needed to say, Hey, I'm exhausted.

Deena:

I can't do this.

Deena:

And then say, will you help me in this way?

Deena:

And when we do that, it really gives our loved ones around us the

Deena:

opportunity to show how they care for us, how they appreciate us.

Deena:

But if we keep going along and saying, I'm fine, it's fine.

Deena:

I got this.

Deena:

Then what ends up happening is we create this hard shell, we become resentful.

Deena:

Towards our loved ones around us, and we're mad because they're not helping,

Deena:

but they don't even know what we need.

Deena:

And another important part is that we, when we're feeling these

Deena:

this way, it's really important to think about how am I feeling?

Deena:

What caused me to feel this way?

Deena:

And what would actually make me feel different?

Deena:

What would actually make me feel better?

Deena:

And it's important that we get really clear on that because if we don't, then

Deena:

we could just say, oh, I need help.

Deena:

Let's say I'm thinking, I need help.

Deena:

I want to go out for coffee by myself.

Deena:

And instead my husband does the dishes.

Deena:

There's gonna be, I'm still gonna be annoyed, and he's gonna be

Deena:

like, boy, anything I do doesn't make her happy because I helped

Deena:

out and she's still miserable.

Deena:

And so it's really important to focus in on what it is that we

Deena:

need, how we can voice what we need, and then how others can help us.

Deena:

So that's really like the beginning is our thoughts and then how we re relate our

Deena:

thoughts and our feelings to other people.

Deena:

I think that's like the first part.

Arlene:

What's a good way to respond when you ask for help and you're actually

Arlene:

explicit about what you need and your partner or the person you're asking

Arlene:

maybe can't, for a variety of reasons, like it's harvest season or they're at

Arlene:

capacity and they really can't help out.

Arlene:

How do you deal with then those feelings of I did the thing,

Arlene:

I I asked for what I needed.

Arlene:

And now you're saying no.

Arlene:

Then that.

Arlene:

Because sometimes the asking is really hard to do.

Arlene:

But then, right then the re when you're expecting an enthusiastic yes

Arlene:

and you don't get it, how do you deal with that process in your own head?

Deena:

Yes.

Deena:

So I like to say it's, this is when you say they, they love me,

Deena:

they respect me, they heard me.

Deena:

So I can't get this right now.

Deena:

So what are the things that I could do right now?

Deena:

And sometimes maybe that break is I would really like to go out of the house,

Deena:

but that's not a reality right now.

Deena:

So what is a reality?

Deena:

What is something that I could do that would give me that same mental break, but.

Deena:

Isn't leaving the house.

Deena:

So I really enjoy to, I like to recommend using AirPods, put in your earbuds

Deena:

and, put the kids in a safe space.

Deena:

And then whether it's a podcast or whether it's your favorite music, something

Deena:

that you know will change your mood.

Deena:

I think a lot of times it's easy to just grab our phones

Deena:

and, scroll and think, I'm fine.

Deena:

Or maybe put on Netflix and binge, but it really needs to be something more.

Deena:

Because if you notice when you do those behaviors, you still keep those

Deena:

negative feelings because now you're on, you're scrolling and you're seeing

Deena:

people who are the highlight reel.

Deena:

So then it's just starting to make your mood feel even worse because you're

Deena:

like, all these people are having a great time and I'm over here miserable

Deena:

and I'm angry and all the emotions.

Deena:

And so instead, it's better to think.

Deena:

What is something that perks my mood and makes me feel better.

Deena:

And even when it gets to the point where you can't do something like that,

Deena:

whether it's, putting the kids in front of a, the television to go take a hot

Deena:

shower or something, then I like to think about, okay, am I drinking enough water?

Deena:

Could I go outside?

Deena:

Could I literally go outside and get some fresh air?

Deena:

Just that change of scenery, which, we're farm wives.

Deena:

We know how much we can be outside, but then yeah, there's seasons and

Deena:

there's times where we're all inside.

Deena:

So

Arlene:

maybe I could drink water outside and

Deena:

multitask.

Deena:

There you go.

Deena:

There you go.

Deena:

The important things of like proper nutrition, just.

Deena:

Like how have I eaten today?

Deena:

Maybe that's part of my mood.

Deena:

Maybe I need to eat.

Deena:

I was so busy feeding everybody else, I forgot to make sure I had lunch today.

Deena:

So really looking for those opportunities.

Deena:

Keep your mind in like problem solving in instead of, everything's happened to me.

Deena:

I'm the victim here, poor me.

Deena:

Someone needs to come and change this for me.

Caite:

It's nice to think about.

Caite:

I often think, how would I resp, how would I talk to a friend?

Caite:

Would I ever talk to someone?

Caite:

I love the way I talk to myself.

Caite:

And it sounds like you're suggesting that we should also consider, if

Caite:

I treated a potted plant the way I treat my body, how would it respond?

Caite:

Exactly.

Caite:

No sunlight, no water, lots of sugar is not gonna do it any favors.

Caite:

Exactly.

Caite:

No matter how easy that seems.

Caite:

Totally.

Caite:

Oh.

Caite:

One of the biggest struggles that I faced is that, especially before we had

Caite:

kids, I was a little older than we got.

Caite:

I'm an expert.

Caite:

I retired by myself.

Caite:

It was so having to tell someone what I needed, the mental burden of having to

Caite:

think what would be helpful, and then my husband not being cyclic, and me having

Caite:

likeactually room has been such a strain.

Caite:

I just, it ends in this.

Caite:

It's easier to do it.

Caite:

I'll just do it.

Caite:

It becomes such a horrible martyr.

Caite:

You.

Caite:

You won't do it right.

Caite:

So I'll just do it myself.

Caite:

Oh yes.

Caite:

Why doesn't anyone ever help me?

Caite:

I'm like cuz I didn't give you any chances to help me.

Caite:

So I'm wondering what your thoughts are on how to get out of that cycle because

Caite:

it's just more work to ask for help, yes.

Caite:

But also nobody helps you if you don't tell them what you need.

Deena:

Very am.

Deena:

Something to think about is ask yourself what can I, what am

Deena:

I okay with being done poorly?

Deena:

Okay.

Deena:

If you have kids and you're telling them to load the dishwasher so I can sit

Deena:

there and think you're doing it wrong.

Deena:

I d it's not the right way.

Deena:

It's not exact.

Deena:

Or I can be like, Hey, The dishes are getting done, it doesn't matter.

Deena:

And that is another important thing, is to think about what

Deena:

can I handle being done poorly?

Deena:

Can I lower my expectations on this?

Deena:

Obviously, if you're, if it's something where you're worried about your

Deena:

child's safety or something like that, you know you're gonna choose wisely.

Deena:

But some things, it's just, we're gonna let it just be the

Deena:

action of letting them help.

Deena:

After they've gotten into the routine of helping, then

Deena:

their confidence is built up.

Deena:

Now you can make some suggestions, but it's a lot of giving

Deena:

and taking because Exactly.

Deena:

As women, it's oh, come load the dishwasher.

Deena:

Okay, now wait, you need to do it this way, that way.

Deena:

I don't like this.

Deena:

I don't like that Nobody likes to be micromanaged and it's it important

Deena:

to just look at the big picture.

Deena:

Look at the big picture, and we have to pick like what we're willing to

Deena:

sacrifice and what we're willing to, give, to have a ba a, a bigger response

Deena:

and a bigger oh, what's the word?

Deena:

Fulfillment in that.

Caite:

I think too, there's so much power in learning to give yourself

Caite:

some grace on those days that let, letting your four year old help wash

Caite:

dishes is just not gonna happen.

Caite:

And, you're not going to ruin your child's ability to be useful forever.

Caite:

If there's one day that you're just like, go watch tv Yep.

Caite:

Just go somewhere else.

Caite:

Yep.

Caite:

And leave me alone.

Caite:

Exactly.

Caite:

So because.

Caite:

Sometimes they have to learn to just back off too.

Caite:

Yes.

Caite:

That's a valuable skill for humans to have is to just go away.

Caite:

Yes.

Caite:

I'm a great mom, obviously.

Caite:

No I am a good mom and and this is the other thing is, it's

Caite:

so hard to say I'm a good mom.

Caite:

Because I am, my kids are happy, they're well adjusted, they're decent humans.

Caite:

They haven't said anything on fire yet, and they're, six and almost five.

Caite:

So I feel good about that.

Arlene:

Yeah.

Arlene:

You're teaching them to read the room.

Arlene:

It's

Caite:

embarrassing how hard it is.

Caite:

Yeah.

Caite:

Yeah.

Caite:

And sometimes what the room is saying is go away.

Caite:

Yeah.

Caite:

That's right.

Caite:

Now

Arlene:

is not the time to be in the kitchen.

Arlene:

No,

Caite:

You said it.

Caite:

No, we have a very small kitchen too, and it's the only bathroom in our house

Caite:

is on the far side of the kitchen.

Caite:

Oh, perfect.

Caite:

And we have two big dogs.

Caite:

And the kitchen is the first room you walk into and it's just no.

Caite:

Just

Deena:

get out.

Deena:

Oh, I get that so much Tiny kitchen right now and with eight people and

Deena:

they all come in and the refrigerator, water dispenser, I can stand like at

Deena:

the refrigerator and I can reach the sink and the stove all at one time.

Deena:

So with eight people and a dog and the water dispenser, everybody comes

Deena:

in and I'm like, I'm out of here.

Deena:

But Katie, you said it you said, I'm a good mom.

Deena:

And that's what we need to tell ourselves because I think that's

Deena:

the number one thing when you start feeling like mom, guilt.

Deena:

It, that right there proves that you're a good mom because you're

Deena:

worried that you're not doing it right.

Deena:

So you know that you are a good mom because you care

Deena:

and you want to do it right.

Deena:

And that's something that I first started reframing because when there were times

Deena:

where I felt like I was messing up as a mom, what, let's say, the kid back when my

Deena:

kids went to school, let's say they forgot something, or I forgot it was teacher

Deena:

appreciation week or something like that.

Deena:

And I would tell myself, oh, I'm such a terrible mom.

Deena:

I'm such a terrible mom.

Deena:

I'm messing everything up.

Deena:

And then I started a new mantra and I started saying, I'm doing the best I can.

Deena:

I'm doing, I am a good mom.

Deena:

And just that reframe, like the response in my body of, I'm doing

Deena:

the best I can, just calmed the nerves and okay, no pressure.

Deena:

We got this.

Deena:

We're gonna just do the best we can.

Deena:

That's all that's expected and it really plays a big difference in our bodies.

Caite:

I think too, for myself, taking that one step further and really saying,

Caite:

I am doing the best I can right now, right here, because it's so easy.

Caite:

I find myself going well, but I was better at this yesterday.

Caite:

But that was yesterday.

Caite:

This is today.

Caite:

Is this relatively close to the best that I can reasonably give right now?

Caite:

Yes.

Caite:

And to reframing for myself that if, I worry so much that people are judging me

Caite:

and that if people are judging, they can either be helpful or they can go away.

Caite:

That's not on me.

Caite:

If they're judging me, that's on them.

Caite:

And that's, that if you're worried that somebody's judging if your

Caite:

house isn't clean enough, they can get the broom or they can go home.

Caite:

Yes.

Caite:

That's.

Caite:

That's not my problem.

Caite:

Yes.

Caite:

That's, they can just go away with that.

Caite:

Yep.

Caite:

It's, I think we need to reframe so much of this is that it's,

Caite:

my children are my problem.

Caite:

My dogs are my problem, my work is my problem.

Caite:

Other people's judgment not my problem.

Caite:

Exactly.

Caite:

That's all on them.

Caite:

Yes.

Caite:

I hopped down off my soapbox on that one.

Caite:

I

Deena:

100% agree with your soapbox.

Caite:

Just go away.

Caite:

Yes.

Caite:

It's, yes.

Caite:

Its probably easier for introverts to say it like, I don't care if you leave.

Caite:

Cool, you're gonna leave me alone.

Caite:

Awesome.

Caite:

Yeah.

Caite:

Which makes it a rough transition into this next question.

Caite:

Okay.

Caite:

Is that being a parent can be really lonely.

Caite:

And especially I think for farm parents, like Arlene was saying about that.

Caite:

There are times that your partner.

Caite:

Cannot give you what you're asking for because there are other commitments.

Caite:

How do we work on reaching out?

Caite:

And what are some of the common struggles that you see with the

Caite:

people that you're working with?

Caite:

How do we fix

Deena:

all of them.

Deena:

Oh, I wish I had, I wish I had the special power of Hey,

Deena:

this is how we fix all of it.

Deena:

I think that the first thing is to not think you're the only one who's

Deena:

ever felt the way you're feeling.

Deena:

Cuz I can guarantee you there's a lot of moms that feel that way and dealing with

Deena:

the feeling of loneliness and isolation.

Deena:

I dealt with a lot of times because my husband was farming out of state.

Deena:

So he was gone, or I went with him a lot, but there were a lot of times that

Deena:

I wasn't, and I think it's really good to evaluate that this is an opportunity,

Deena:

this is an opportunity that you can grow.

Deena:

And when we think about somebody who is doing weightlifting and they're

Deena:

trying to build muscles, they, their muscles break down and then the next

Deena:

day they repair and they get bigger.

Deena:

And I like to tell women to think of their motherhood as a muscle.

Deena:

And you're gonna have a day where you just feel like you're broken

Deena:

and everything just came apart.

Deena:

But from that experience, the next day and the days that are after,

Deena:

you're actually growing in your experience, in your resources that

Deena:

you have to go with the next thing.

Deena:

And when you're dealing with the loneliness, definitely try

Deena:

to search out someone that you feel like you can connect with.

Deena:

And social media is a great way.

Deena:

Listening to podcasts is another great way because you don't feel as lonely.

Deena:

You hear people's stories.

Deena:

So you get those moments of, Hey, me too.

Deena:

And it can lead to really good relationships and

Deena:

it can make a difference.

Deena:

But if you are feeling, if you're following accounts where you feel like

Deena:

you're just not measuring up or that you can't relate, and you feel like

Deena:

you, you have negative emotions about yourself afterwards, definitely mute them.

Deena:

Get away from them.

Deena:

Stop following for a while and look for the ones that are really

Deena:

sharing and talking to those emotions that you're feeling as well.

Deena:

And don't be afraid to reach out.

Deena:

Try to join mommy groups in the local area.

Deena:

Go to the library and you'll see moms that are feeling the same things that you are.

Deena:

So if they're a mom, they've, we've all felt those emotions, but definitely

Deena:

reach out and ask for support.

Deena:

There's no shame in asking for help in whatever way you need it for sure.

Deena:

Yeah.

Deena:

That's important

Arlene:

to remember.

Arlene:

I find too, I think that we as younger moms younger like whether you're a

Arlene:

first time parent or, look around, but don't look for someone who's maybe in

Arlene:

the exact same stage as you, right?

Arlene:

Like I would, it would be amazing for me to be able to support someone who is just

Arlene:

starting out or I remember looking at, my mother-in-law as a support person for me

Arlene:

and she wasn't the only person who was.

Arlene:

Was older than me in rural communities.

Arlene:

You have to look at who's there too, right?

Arlene:

Yeah.

Arlene:

Yeah.

Arlene:

The people around you may not be the exact same age or stage, but they can

Arlene:

still support you and you shouldn't feel like a burden because sometimes

Arlene:

someone would love to hold your baby while you have a shower or whatever.

Arlene:

Like it, it's sometimes easier for some of the times easier for someone to help

Arlene:

you if they're not in the same stage.

Arlene:

If their hands are full with babies and toddlers, maybe someone who's

Arlene:

got a six or seven year old and has, a smidge of more free time or empty

Arlene:

hands might be the ideal person to reach out to in, in that day.

Arlene:

Yes.

Arlene:

Where you really need somebody.

Deena:

Exactly.

Deena:

I totally agree, Arlene.

Deena:

I was thinking that it's good to look for someone who's three to five years ahead

Deena:

of you, because sometimes I've heard that, some women have a struggle with.

Deena:

Either their in-laws or their parents' age, because life is so different.

Deena:

Life is so different now from what it was when they were raising kids.

Deena:

I think about it with my mom.

Deena:

I'm like, she never had to deal with all of the electronic bombardment that

Deena:

I deal with today with my children.

Deena:

And so there's can be some sort of a disconnect.

Deena:

Like I love the values and there's a lot of great resources and

Deena:

knowledge that they can impart, but then there's also circumstances

Deena:

that they haven't dealt with yet.

Deena:

So when you find someone that's three to five years ahead of you, or even

Deena:

10 years, it can really help cuz they, it's still fresh in their mind.

Deena:

Sometimes I would ask my mother-in-law about things and my husband's

Deena:

the youngest of four siblings and they were like 12 years apart.

Deena:

So I would ask her some things and she would be like, I don't remember.

Deena:

So I was like, okay, try to look for somebody else then

Deena:

to ask about, so yeah, just

Arlene:

ask.

Arlene:

Yes.

Arlene:

Or they're looking back with rose colored glasses and they're

Arlene:

like, oh, everything was perfect.

Arlene:

They're like, that can't be true.

Deena:

Exactly.

Deena:

Oh my goodness.

Deena:

Yes.

Deena:

That is so true.

Deena:

For sure.

Arlene:

Yeah, I've heard that.

Arlene:

And anyone who still has, yeah, anyone who still has kids in their house, like

Arlene:

if they've got teenagers and you've got little ones, then they're not

Arlene:

gonna judge your parenting because they don't know what they're doing either.

Arlene:

They're at a whole different stage and they're struggling with

Arlene:

different things than you are.

Arlene:

Oh, yes.

Deena:

Absolutely.

Arlene:

Katie, did you have anything else you wanted to say before we

Arlene:

moved on to my homeschooling question?

Caite:

I was gonna say that quite possibly the kindest thing that anyone has ever

Caite:

done for me as a parent was my husband and I took the girl child to a tractor show

Caite:

when she was eight months old, probably.

Caite:

And I wanna say it was right before I got pregnant with our second kid.

Caite:

Our kids are 16 months apart, but we were at a restaurant, we had been in the

Caite:

car for five hours and then we went to a tractor show and we stayed in a hotel

Caite:

and we went to a restaurant and she's, throwing stuff and acting like a baby.

Caite:

And we're trying to eat and we're both exhausted.

Caite:

And finally a fam, a group of older folks that had been at the same tractor

Caite:

show because small town Minnesota.

Caite:

Everybody's wearing a bright orange shirt, it's obvious who they are.

Caite:

This woman comes over and she's probably in her seventies and she

Caite:

goes, that baby needs a grandma.

Caite:

And she held out her arms and I just, I was so shocked and exhausted

Caite:

that I just handed her my kid.

Caite:

I'm like, we're in a family restaurant.

Caite:

She's not gonna kidnap her.

Caite:

Like this woman's fairly old.

Caite:

I could take her, I could chase her.

Caite:

She's not gonna run with my baby, okay.

Caite:

And she did.

Caite:

She just took her over to their table and they all, this was obviously pre

Caite:

pandemic and they just passed her around and we ate our supper in peace.

Caite:

And it was like, there's a lot to be said for having those friends where

Caite:

you can just raid their diaper bag for wipes or snacks or whatever.

Caite:

But there's also a lot to be said for those folks who have

Caite:

the capacity to just help.

Caite:

Yeah.

Caite:

And as my kids are getting older, being able to pass that on even a

Caite:

little bit to newer parents to be like, your baby's not wearing socks

Caite:

and I'm not gonna comment on it.

Caite:

Or I'm just gonna say that your kid's real cute and I'm not gonna

Caite:

go, that baby's gonna freak.

Caite:

Yes.

Caite:

Cause you know, no child has died yet.

Caite:

Lack of socks.

Caite:

Yeah.

Caite:

But just to be open about that community because there's so much that

Caite:

if no one tells you that everybody is struggling because everybody

Caite:

assumes they're the only one.

Caite:

Then you don't know that everybody else is having the same problems.

Caite:

And I think the more we can just be out there with it, the

Caite:

more useful it is to folks.

Caite:

Yeah.

Caite:

I

Deena:

think there's

Caite:

for just putting my personal stuff all over the end,

Deena:

so I won't tell.

Deena:

I think too that there's a fine line between unwanted advice and then sharing

Deena:

a good experience, I think it can be so tricky as far as I've seen both sides.

Deena:

Sometimes women don't wanna say anything when someone is looking for.

Deena:

Answers and advice because they're like I don't wanna come across as pushy.

Deena:

I don't wanna let them, I don't wanna make them feel like I'm pushing my opinions on

Deena:

them, so I'm just not gonna say anything.

Deena:

And I'm going, but wait they wanna know I wanna know your secret.

Deena:

This worked for you.

Deena:

Why did it work for you?

Deena:

Tell me about it.

Deena:

And so it's that whole fine line of sharing and helping to offer support.

Deena:

In a positive way, without the judgment, I think no

Arlene:

judgey.

Arlene:

Yeah.

Arlene:

I think that loops back to what you were saying before, though,

Arlene:

being willing to ask for help.

Arlene:

Because if you have those people in your life, the ones who you most want

Arlene:

the advice from are the non judgy ones who are gonna hold back until you ask.

Arlene:

Yeah.

Arlene:

So if you say so true, I am actually asking a question here, what would you do?

Arlene:

Or what did you do?

Arlene:

Ask the question.

Arlene:

And as the person who might have some advice, it's also important

Arlene:

to ask the question first.

Arlene:

If they don't explicitly ask, do you want to know what I did?

Arlene:

Are you looking for advice?

Arlene:

Like those are valid questions and the, and then you have to listen to the answer.

Arlene:

But to be, but to start with, I have something that might work.

Arlene:

Do you want to hear it right now?

Arlene:

Are you in a place to hear what I have to say?

Arlene:

Because if they say no, then that's fair too.

Arlene:

They might have tried a million things and they just don't want to

Arlene:

hear one more piece of advice and they don't want what you have to say.

Arlene:

And that's fair

Deena:

too.

Deena:

Yeah.

Deena:

Absolutely.

Deena:

I love the way you phrased that.

Deena:

Are you in a place, would you like to hear the advice?

Deena:

Yeah.

Deena:

Because it's so true.

Deena:

It's just a common courtesy.

Caite:

Yeah.

Caite:

I feel like for myself too, if I can couch it in, I really struggled with X, Y, and

Caite:

Z, or I just found out about this thing.

Caite:

At least with folks that you don't know well enough to just go ahead and

Caite:

ask 'em your stupid question, knowing that they're gonna laugh at you, but

Caite:

that they're laughing because they've totally dealt with the same thing.

Caite:

But that if you can say, oh, my kids love to be, they loved it

Caite:

when I wore them, or, we found this kind of jammies that were totally

Caite:

better than the ones with the snaps.

Caite:

Or like what, whatever it is.

Caite:

If you can bring it back to your own experience of struggling with things

Caite:

rather than just did you not know about.

Caite:

Have you heard of zippers?

Caite:

Like maybe you didn't know this.

Deena:

Yeah.

Deena:

Maybe you've been living under a rock, but yeah.

Caite:

Maybe you are actually as stupid as an empty soup can, but yeah.

Caite:

Just stay away from those people.

Caite:

Yes.

Caite:

Anyone who starts a sentence with maybe you didn't know, just Yeah.

Caite:

I feel like I can categorically say stay away from it.

Caite:

Yes.

Caite:

Nothing that is gonna happen.

Arlene:

Exactly.

Arlene:

And

Deena:

follow your guide.

Arlene:

Yeah.

Arlene:

Until your kids get old enough, Katie, that they start to

Arlene:

actually, you so actually mom.

Arlene:

Yes.

Caite:

Also,

Arlene:

then you have the girl child, then you have to live with the other day.

Arlene:

You got

Caite:

actually, yeah.

Caite:

Yeah.

Caite:

She's six now.

Caite:

She knows a lot of stuff.

Caite:

That's

Arlene:

right.

Arlene:

So speaking about knowing a lot of, yeah.

Arlene:

Speaking about knowing a lot of stuff, you said you're a homeschooler

Arlene:

and I know that lots of people are curious about homeschooling.

Arlene:

Homeschooling, curious.

Arlene:

Is that a thing?

Arlene:

Yeah.

Arlene:

But not really sure how to do it or what it would look like.

Arlene:

So I was wondering what brought you to homeschooling, cuz you did mention

Arlene:

your kids were in school before.

Arlene:

Yeah.

Arlene:

And how does that look day to day with the number of people in your house and the,

Arlene:

all the things that you've got going on?

Deena:

So first off, my confession is I never went to school.

Deena:

I never went to a public school.

Deena:

I was pulled out with a group of about 25, maybe 30 kids.

Deena:

As soon as it was made legal in our state of Ohio, my mom and her

Deena:

group of friends pulled us out.

Deena:

So I was.

Deena:

Raised homeschooling.

Deena:

So for myself, it just always seemed natural that's what I

Deena:

was going to do when I had kids.

Deena:

And growing up it availed itself to so many opportunities for me that I was able

Deena:

to have so many different experiences.

Deena:

I was able to be way more involved with our taking care of our horses.

Deena:

And it opened up to different work aspects because I had a lot of life

Deena:

experience that I could bring to my jobs and I was able to graduate early.

Deena:

So for me, homeschooling was like the best thing growing up,

Deena:

honestly, I was like perplexed by the whole school system because I

Deena:

never had a reason to go in there.

Deena:

So it always was different for me.

Deena:

So now fast forward, I'm a mom and I have.

Deena:

A child that I was like, we're gonna homeschool and this is all gonna be great.

Deena:

And I was doing the younger grades with him and noticing that there were

Deena:

just things that were not clicking.

Deena:

And I started having some red flags.

Deena:

So around fourth grade, by this point I had four children and I was

Deena:

trying to homeschool some of the other ones and I had a little one.

Deena:

So it was very chaotic, very messy.

Deena:

We tried doing online public schooling and that just kept getting messier cuz

Deena:

he found a way to oh, I'm in class, but really I'm surfing the internet.

Deena:

And I couldn't sit there and babysit him and that wasn't the point of it.

Deena:

So we decided that it was time to take him and put him into public school at f.

Deena:

Fifth grade.

Deena:

So in person public school, I'll clarify that.

Deena:

And so I was called into a board meeting and there were about 10 people at the

Deena:

boardroom and they said, we're here to talk about your son's education.

Deena:

And they went down the line as to, this is a reading interventionist,

Deena:

this is a reading specialist, this is your ot, this is this.

Deena:

And I thought no wonder I'm so tired I couldn't do the work of 10 people.

Deena:

So they worked with him and helped him.

Deena:

Then fa so him and my younger grades were all in public school all while they're

Deena:

in public school, a lot was happening.

Deena:

We had more kids.

Deena:

We had baby number five and C O V I D hit and everybody came home and we moved.

Deena:

Like I said, we were on this little half acre.

Deena:

So we moved and now I'm in this home that we're renting currently, and we have 40

Deena:

acres and we were in lockdown, right?

Deena:

So the kids finished out the school year and then I'm looking,

Deena:

going, I, this is ridiculous.

Deena:

I just need to homeschool.

Deena:

This is what I want.

Deena:

This is where we're at.

Deena:

This is what's gonna be best for our family.

Deena:

So it was nerve wracking to say the least, because I was used to

Deena:

sending three kids off on the bus.

Deena:

My oldest, we homeschooled, the oldest grade, he takes care

Deena:

of things and he's a help and.

Deena:

When you have a teenager and a little one, it makes it really easy because

Deena:

then the teenager can help you.

Deena:

It's okay if you leave him with the baby to go run errands at the store,

Deena:

so life looked totally different and I was this is easier now.

Deena:

But then there was still the stress of keeping up with the school's

Deena:

agenda, which was really hard.

Deena:

And the kids were missing out on things With the farming, the kids were

Deena:

missing out on the whole process of setting up our farm at our new place.

Deena:

And cuz we're in the process right now of building our house and I just

Deena:

felt this just isn't working for us.

Deena:

It just felt really uncomfortable.

Deena:

And I wanna say, when you have something just burning in your heart

Deena:

that you are like, I have to do this.

Deena:

I don't know how I'm gonna do this.

Deena:

It's gonna be messy.

Deena:

Just do it because the calm and the satisfaction of following

Deena:

that intuition and that pool on your heart is just so important.

Deena:

And so now my kids are home and they're helping with, we have goats

Deena:

here at our rental home, and then we have the cows at our new place.

Deena:

And so the kids have been able to help with the building of our home.

Deena:

My teenager has been learning drywall and tile work, and they're getting

Deena:

so much life experience that I'm so grateful for that decision that was a

Deena:

right fit for our family at that time.

Deena:

So I definitely feel that.

Deena:

School system has its place and homeschooling has its place, and you

Deena:

just have to figure out which one is the right fit for you and your family.

Deena:

And I really like the homeschooling flexibility I get

Deena:

to decide what they're learning.

Deena:

Ohio has pretty, pretty great laws about homeschooling, and so I

Deena:

decided to take advantage of that.

Deena:

And so it gets messy sometimes.

Deena:

There's days where it's okay, so your schooling today was helping

Deena:

out with the house, taking care of the animals and bottle feeding

Deena:

that calf and things like that.

Deena:

So it's more of an education that works for the family.

Deena:

That's good to

Arlene:

remember too, that just because you're doing it now doesn't mean you have

Arlene:

to do it next year or you know that that.

Arlene:

You when public school was what you needed, you sent your kids there,

Arlene:

and then when it wasn't working anymore, then you went another way.

Arlene:

That there, that you were flexible too, right?

Arlene:

And you didn't feel like a failure because oh, now they're in school and

Arlene:

that wasn't my intention I failed.

Arlene:

Yeah, it, it worked for a time and then when it wasn't that

Arlene:

you made a different choice.

Arlene:

So I think that's a really great example for them too, to realize,

Arlene:

they've had multiple opportunities too to see different ways to learn.

Deena:

Definitely.

Deena:

I think too for children that they have different learning styles and following

Deena:

which style is suitable for which child?

Deena:

My one son, he does better actually with a little bit more of the

Deena:

competition of the other classmates.

Deena:

And then my other son that's like the detriment.

Deena:

So really knowing which environment is better and sampling if you want to, and

Deena:

it just, it really is trial and error, but if something's not working, definitely

Deena:

check out what o other options you have.

Deena:

So's important.

Caite:

So for those of us who aren't homeschooling full-time there are

Caite:

certainly things that I find very appealing about homeschooling,

Caite:

but just for our family, between work and what has most helped our

Caite:

daughter develop she didn't talk at all until she started public school

Caite:

because she just didn't need to.

Caite:

Mostly, we did speech therapy and did speech therapy and she was just like,

Caite:

nah, she got what she wanted and it was, but the minute she got in with

Caite:

peers and they wouldn't play with her unless she talked to 'em, she just.

Caite:

Bang.

Caite:

And so I think public school has been a very good situation for her.

Caite:

But how can we wrap more of the positives of homeschooling into our public school

Caite:

attending life without it feeling like we're just schooling our kids 24 7 in a,

Caite:

kids obviously are learning all the time.

Caite:

Yeah.

Caite:

But it feels really harsh to have them come home and be

Caite:

like, here is some more math.

Caite:

Beyond the experiential stuff, it seems, I think,

Deena:

A little rude but true.

Deena:

Very true.

Deena:

I think when they're out of school, then that's when we get to just

Deena:

saturate them in the real world.

Deena:

And when I say the real world, helping them with things that are

Deena:

gonna matter in their day-to-day lives when they've graduated.

Deena:

Obviously not for a six year old, that's a little different.

Deena:

But just asking questions, showing them, if we set the

Deena:

example that learning is fun.

Deena:

If they see us learning new things, trying new things, then they're also

Deena:

gonna be more apt to doing that.

Deena:

And I think we've tried to like package learning so much and really learning

Deena:

is just part of all of our development.

Deena:

We all just start out learning and when the kids' curiosity

Deena:

is perked about something, then that's when the learning happens.

Deena:

And I think we have such a great example and such great resources being.

Deena:

On the farm because we can be outside so much more where the kids

Deena:

are in a more relaxed environment.

Deena:

And then just teaching them and asking questions and the things that we can share

Deena:

with them to broaden their knowledge.

Deena:

You never know what's gonna p perk their curiosity.

Deena:

And then they're gonna go and take that and wanna do and learn more about it.

Deena:

And just giving tho them those resources available.

Deena:

You wanna learn about that?

Deena:

Great.

Deena:

Let's go look it up together.

Deena:

Let's go find out more information about that together.

Deena:

And then they see how fun it can be.

Caite:

So two, obviously one of the things we talk a lot about is the

Caite:

transition from no kids to kids.

Caite:

So obviously with six kids you've done this a few times.

Caite:

What was it like for you with that first kid though?

Caite:

And also, I'm gonna add to this Okay.

Caite:

Which, I know some folks who say that the transition from

Caite:

one to two was the hardest.

Caite:

I know some folks who say that the transition from

Caite:

zero to one was the hardest.

Caite:

I know folks who say that once you get past three, it really

Caite:

doesn't matter how many you have.

Caite:

So I'm wondering what your thoughts are on that.

Caite:

Okay.

Caite:

Because it, it seems to be a real division among people about

Caite:

what was the biggest change

Deena:

for them.

Deena:

Okay.

Deena:

So to answer about becoming a mom, I had a lot of good examples of

Deena:

good moms growing up that I watched.

Deena:

So being maternal was always very much instinctual with me.

Deena:

I was also a nanny before I became a mom.

Deena:

Actually, before I became a wife, I was a nanny.

Deena:

And I actually went through like the whole.

Deena:

Finding yourself and balancing taking care of yourself and a child.

Deena:

When I was a nanny and then I also went through it again when

Deena:

I had my first, my first born.

Deena:

So it was interesting because I was nannying about 40, 45 hours a week

Deena:

and I looked like the mom because even though I was only 19, I was, hair was

Deena:

always in a ponytail, barely any makeup, wasn't really taking care of myself.

Deena:

I just was like schlepping up to work and doing the mom thing and

Deena:

taking care of two little ones and going home and being exhausted.

Deena:

So there was definitely this like juggle.

Deena:

And that's why I quit being a nanny was because I was burned out, but then

Deena:

I became a mom and I couldn't quit.

Deena:

So it was time to figure this out.

Deena:

And what helped me was I, it was about the transition of three to four kids

Deena:

that really just started pooling at me.

Deena:

Again, my husband was farming out of state, so he was gone and, or

Deena:

we would go out of town constantly.

Deena:

There was a lot of things going on, and I just was like, this, I'm fried.

Deena:

And I just kept telling myself I had to try harder, I had to do more.

Deena:

I wasn't I had to figure this out.

Deena:

And what changed for me was when I started looking at women who

Deena:

seemed to have what I wanted.

Deena:

And instead of, I, I used to look at them and go, oh, sure they have

Deena:

more money they can hire help.

Deena:

They, have a live-in nanny and a housekeeper and someone

Deena:

who cooks for them, whatever.

Deena:

And then I found someone that I was like she was offering to coach

Deena:

women and to help moms with burnout.

Deena:

And I thought, you know what?

Deena:

She has what I'm trying to get and I wanna find out what her secret is.

Deena:

And when I did, that's when everything switched for me.

Deena:

And I was able to realize, oh, I'm not a victim in my life and I can figure

Deena:

this out and we're just gonna rearrange some things in our life and in our

Deena:

thought process and this is gonna change.

Deena:

And from that point on, I really start, started a different journey from being

Deena:

the tired, overwhelmed, stressed out mom who was miserable all the time.

Deena:

And that's the thing we all go through tired, stressed, and overwhelmed.

Deena:

The difference is, do we stay there?

Deena:

How long are we there?

Deena:

Is it a day, is it a week or is it a lifestyle?

Deena:

And that's where you have to look and say, okay, it's time for change.

Deena:

I don't wanna be miserable.

Deena:

I don't wanna be tired and angry and resentful all the time.

Deena:

It's time to do something about it.

Deena:

And that's what I did and that's what helped me transition out of the new mom

Deena:

phase, even though I was a mom to four.

Arlene:

Yeah.

Arlene:

I mean it's that, that aspect of getting overwhelmed and feeling out of control

Arlene:

or feeling like you've gotten out of your depth can hit you at different

Arlene:

points, but it's really, it's good to know that you got some support and that,

Arlene:

that made it a real difference for you.

Arlene:

So part of our reason for doing this podcast is to talk to other farming

Arlene:

parents, and we're always curious about what you really like about being

Arlene:

able to raise your kids on the farm.

Arlene:

What lights you up when you see your kids being raised on the land that

Arlene:

you're growing and raising animals on?

Deena:

I think I love the fact that they get to see the results of their hard work.

Deena:

That they get to see, if I apply myself and if I work hard, this is gonna happen.

Deena:

That there's a lot of oh, what's the word?

Deena:

Just this real fulfillment in it.

Deena:

And to watch them with the animals and, Their faces light up.

Deena:

There was a land born this morning.

Deena:

We had, there's a new kid.

Deena:

And to watch them nurture and to handle the animals and take care of them.

Deena:

I think those are skills that our society is losing is the nurturing and the

Deena:

hard work and the hard physical work.

Deena:

There's nothing wrong with the kids working hard.

Deena:

And I think I love so much the family, the farm family comradery of we're in this

Deena:

together, we're working on this together.

Deena:

We're a family unit.

Deena:

This is how we do things.

Deena:

This is our goal as a family and let's all stick together.

Deena:

I really like that.

Caite:

So sorry then What have the challenges been for you?

Caite:

Besides what I can only imagine is a tremendous amount of laundry.

Caite:

Cause if I have this much laundry with four people, I feel like

Caite:

eight people is probably more than twice as much with kids.

Caite:

It does not seem to be Oh, yes.

Arlene:

Attitude.

Arlene:

Oh yes.

Arlene:

And the clothes get bigger too.

Arlene:

Kg?

Arlene:

Yes.

Deena:

Oh, don't that.

Deena:

Yes.

Deena:

Yes.

Deena:

Because I, I have teenage boys and so

Arlene:

it's and huge shoes.

Arlene:

Those jeans are these, they're huge.

Arlene:

Yes.

Arlene:

Yeah.

Arlene:

Huge footwear boots everywhere.

Arlene:

Yes.

Arlene:

Yes.

Arlene:

The boots.

Arlene:

Boots

Caite:

are huge.

Caite:

Yes.

Caite:

We're all just gonna have to go barefoot.

Caite:

Yes.

Caite:

When my kids get into the gir size.

Caite:

Cause there's already so many boots that it's just this yeah.

Caite:

It's a whole thing.

Caite:

Yeah.

Arlene:

Okay.

Arlene:

So

Deena:

the biggest challenge, oh my goodness.

Deena:

Yeah, I think it's.

Deena:

Just the day to day, we can get caught up in just the hard work and the

Deena:

to-do list of what has to be done.

Deena:

So the challenge of balancing that there's work and there's play and they're

Deena:

both important because if we don't have the play, then that's when the

Deena:

burnout and the frustration builds up.

Deena:

And so I think that is one of the hardest things to keep level.

Deena:

But we're working on it.

Deena:

We're working on it.

Arlene:

We're all a work in progress, right?

Arlene:

Yes.

Arlene:

Yes.

Arlene:

So you have a pretty wide range of ages of kids.

Arlene:

What are some of the practical ways that you get them involved, whether

Arlene:

it's during their school day or outside of kind of the formal school hours?

Arlene:

What kinds of tasks?

Arlene:

Cuz I'm always looking for, ways for people to help out.

Arlene:

Age appropriate ones.

Deena:

Yes.

Deena:

Yes.

Deena:

So the oldest, typically he goes and helps dad.

Deena:

He, my husband does farming and he does a construction business as well.

Deena:

So he has been busy learning the construction trades and, but as far

Deena:

as helping out around the house, it's the typical helping with

Deena:

dishes and laundry and childcare.

Deena:

That has been, that's been a really big gift when it comes

Deena:

to the large family aspect.

Deena:

It is so special to watch your teenager, who always was rough and tough, be kind

Deena:

and gentle and loving with a baby, and to have the child's eyes just light up

Deena:

when the teenager walks in the room.

Deena:

It's so precious to watch.

Deena:

So the teenager helps out a lot, but I try very hard to ask and not expect.

Deena:

Because I never want him to feel like I didn't have these kids.

Deena:

I don't want kids.

Deena:

I'm always being dumped on.

Deena:

And so then the other ones they help with laundry and, farming.

Deena:

Farming has a long list of chores, and so they help a lot with that.

Deena:

They have helped a lot with our with the building of our new house.

Deena:

They did hardwood flooring.

Deena:

The little ones helped carry the pieces, and they were so happy to be helpful.

Deena:

And they helped a little bit with some of the painting where it

Deena:

was suitable, where they could be messy and it not be an issue.

Deena:

And yeah just helping them like, Hey, this is the big picture.

Deena:

This is our project that we're working on, and this is how it's

Deena:

going to benefit you in the long run.

Deena:

And I think that really helps them too because like I said, building our house

Deena:

has been almost two years, so they've been through this process and we're all

Deena:

tired, but we're all getting it done.

Deena:

And it's a whole heap of memories and lessons learned, and

Caite:

that's what matters.

Caite:

I think it's so cool to talk about asking your kids to participate, because I know

Caite:

so many families where the parents take on goats and chickens and whatever, whatever.

Caite:

And then it's just added to the kids' chores list.

Caite:

And like on the one hand, it is really important for them to

Caite:

learn to be part of the team.

Caite:

But on the other hand, it's really unfair to just take on all these things without

Caite:

them getting any say in it and then it getting handed over to them, especially

Caite:

when it's not what supports the family.

Caite:

When it's not a, when it's a hobby for the parents, but it's

Caite:

a requirement for the kids.

Caite:

Yes.

Caite:

That's, yes.

Caite:

It's not unfair.

Caite:

It's not cool.

Caite:

And, oh, anyway, it's

Deena:

funny you brought that up.

Deena:

My oldest is funny because he doesn't, he's not into animals.

Deena:

He's not into animals.

Deena:

He likes all the equipment.

Deena:

And his thing is because he doesn't want something that he feels will

Deena:

live or die based on his actions.

Deena:

Like he just, he likes other things that you could just put it on the

Deena:

shelf and it can leave it there for five years and it'd be fine.

Deena:

So it is interesting because children, yeah there's a difference

Caite:

for sure.

Caite:

But how great for your kids too, to get that opportunity to learn

Caite:

these things about themselves?

Caite:

When it's not, oh, should I bought 40 cows and I actually hate having

Caite:

cows and now I have all these cows and what the hell was, I think yes.

Caite:

Yes.

Caite:

Much better to look at 15 when they're not your cows and you can just be like, yep.

Arlene:

Yes.

Deena:

All right.

Deena:

That is a very good question because there's quite a few things

Deena:

at the county fair that I feel like I would love to try entering.

Deena:

I don't know.

Deena:

That's a really good question.

Deena:

I tried thinking about this even beforehand I'm gonna say I would be

Deena:

the motivator, best in class motivator.

Arlene:

Being a cheerleader is an important role.

Arlene:

Yes.

Arlene:

I guess, and I guess as a motivator, you're not, I was just gonna say, but you

Arlene:

did say motivator so being a cheerleader is just being positive, but motivator

Arlene:

could also mean that you're the one being like, come on, don't quit now.

Arlene:

Exactly.

Arlene:

It's not just the positivity, it's also the yeah.

Arlene:

Motivator is tough love.

Arlene:

Slightly different than just tough.

Arlene:

Yeah, that's right.

Arlene:

Yes.

Arlene:

All right.

Arlene:

So we will go ahead and move into our cussing and discussing segment.

Arlene:

We've registered for an online platform where listeners can leave

Arlene:

their cussing and discussing entry.

Arlene:

So go to the show notes and click on the SpeakPipe where you can leave us

Arlene:

a voice memo, or you can always send us an email@barnyardlanguagegmail.com

Arlene:

and we will read them out for you.

Deena:

This is a little deep, but my pet peeve, especially because the day

Deena:

we're recording, this is International Woman's Day, that women are viewed

Deena:

as powerful and amazing creatures until they get a pregnancy test that's

Deena:

positive and then everybody has to second guess the heck out of them.

Deena:

And that drives me nuts.

Deena:

That really just gets me so fired up because Katie and I are doing a

Deena:

lot of, we're capable of doing yeah.

Deena:

We're capable of doing amazing, wonderful things, but as soon as we say, oh,

Deena:

I'm pregnant, it's this could go wrong and that could go wrong and all of

Deena:

these ways you could be a failure.

Deena:

So I think that's my pet peeve.

Arlene:

Yeah, that's right.

Arlene:

And don't do that task that your doctor has said is completely fine, because

Arlene:

if you put your hands over your head or lift anything heavier than a single

Arlene:

potato, then all of a sudden you're putting yourself and your child at risk.

Arlene:

Yes, let's just trust that the, our bodies can handle a few things.

Deena:

I, I think the farming families would have just, like not

Deena:

existed anymore if that was all

Arlene:

true.

Arlene:

Yeah.

Arlene:

All right, so we'll wrap it up quick because I know anyone listening already

Arlene:

knows that this is something to cuss.

Arlene:

It's the mystery smell.

Arlene:

Like you said, knowing, like finding it when you get out, but like

Arlene:

knowing that something smells, but not being able to find the source.

Arlene:

That's the one that I hate, where it's or you walk into a room and you're

Arlene:

like something smells weird, but you have no idea what the smell is or

Arlene:

where the, where it's originated from.

Arlene:

That drives me crazy, and I don't have a great sense of smell, so I'm also always

Arlene:

worried that my house smells anyway and sometimes it is a rotten potato.

Arlene:

I've de, when I can smell something, it's oh dear, how long has this happen?

Arlene:

Oh, that's funny.

Arlene:

Is it Definitely had the rotten potato as the source of the mystery smell, or Yes.

Arlene:

You get something under your finger.

Arlene:

Get something under your fingernail, and it's just like walking around with you.

Arlene:

Yeah.

Arlene:

Mystery smells.

Arlene:

Yeah, that's right.

Arlene:

Yes.

Arlene:

Yeah, that's right.

Arlene:

All right, so we're gonna sign off for today, Dina, if people want to

Arlene:

find you online, if they want to talk to you, where should they find you?

Deena:

They can find me on Instagram at Dena.

Deena:

That's d e n a Stout, s t o u t.

Deena:

That's where I hang out the most.

Deena:

And then I also was including in your show notes if they would a freebie from me.

Deena:

I have three tips to thrive as a mom.

Arlene:

That is fantastic.

Arlene:

Thank you so much for that resource, and we'll definitely share

Arlene:

everything in our show notes too.

Arlene:

We'll let you get back.

Arlene:

All

Deena:

right.

Deena:

You're gonna say hi to Of course.

Deena:

Thank you ladies.

Caite:

Thank you for joining us on Barnyard Language.

Caite:

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Caite:

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Arlene:

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Caite:

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Arlene:

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