Today we're joined by Deena Stout, a farmer, mother, and podcaster from Ohio.

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Welcome to Barnyard Language.

We are Katie and Arlene and Iowa sheep farmer, and an Ontario dairy

farmer with six kids, two husbands, and a whole lot of chaos between us.

So kick off your boots, reheat your coffee, and join us

for some barnyard language.

Honest.

Talk about running farms and raising

families.

In case your kids haven't already learned all the swears from being in the barn,

it might be a good idea to put on some headphones or turned down the volume.

While many of our guests are professionals, they

aren't your professionals.

If you need personalized advice, consult your people.

Another episode of Barnyard Language.

It is summertime, so that means none of us know what day it is, what time it

is, or even what month some of the time.

So I'll ask as usual, Katie, what's going on in Iowa?

What's happening on the farm?

Arlene, this is already our second take at trying to record this update

because the girl child waited literally until I hit the record button to come in

and inquire about a fan for her bedroom, which was clearly something that needed

to be addressed at this very moment.

Yes, for sure.

I believe today is Tuesday, maybe.

Sure.

And it looks like it's getting dark out, so I'm gonna say

it's probably evening time.

But you're correct.

That's about all I know about times or days or anything else.

So far this week we've had a waterline fixed because there was water from.

By this morning from our barn to the road and not flowing into

the house as it is meant to be.

And then when they did fix that water line I'm hoping it was a coincidence,

but our dishwater dishwasher started refusing to stop filling and poured a

substantial amount of very hot water onto my kitchen floor and into the

basement and a item on Oh, great.

And the living room.

Thank goodness for hardwood floors.

Yeah.

So I'm guessing you have probably have an old farmhouse like me.

Some of that water's going then through the cracks in the hardwood

floors down into the basement.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It runs, yeah, the floor's at enough of an angle that it runs right under the wall.

And Right.

Yeah.

Into the basement, which is handy at least, and it's a dirt

floor basement, so it's not like it's gonna hurt anything once

it gets better.

Sure, yeah.

Then it's like you got a mopping, pre mopped wash situation.

Yeah.

Was it clean water or

dirty water?

It was clean.

It was just a lot of it because I ended up having to go into the basement and

find a step ladder to climb up to turn the water off at the supply line, because

I, of course, assumed that it was, that the water was not draining, and indeed it

was that the water was not shutting off.

Even when the dishwasher was turned off, there was still water coming in.

Oh, I

kept, just kept coming in.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And there's, the water goes through the softener first there,

so the repairs to the waterline should not have had any impact on.

How things were going with the dishwasher.

It seems to just be a catastrophic I already replaced our stove hood on

Saturday and then Sunday afternoon, I think it was Sunday afternoon

Jim had to go pull the skid loader out of the bottom of the pasture.

My father-in-law never did offer a satisfactory explanation as to

why the hell the skid loader was in the bottom of the pasture.

But it turns out that the skid loader cannot be driven through creeks or along

creeks or with as many tractors as we own.

Nobody is quite clear on why he had the skid loader down there, but

Right.

Yeah.

So nevertheless, all the water related incidents are happening this week.

Yes.

Also, my daughter this evening, the kids are in vacation Bible school for the

first time, which has been An educational experience for the whole family.

But today my daughter came home with a God's eye, which for any of

you who participated in crafts as young people, is two Crust Popsicle

sticks with yarn wrapped around them.

And when I picked her up and saw that she had made a God's eye, which was

a real nostalgic moment for me, she whipped it at me like a Frisbee and

yelled at Ninja Throwing Star, which explains a lot about our family office.

Maybe

not the, I think maybe not the intent of the craft, but yeah,

that's a good way to use it too.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that's about how things have been going here.

Yeah.

And you got to go away as a human who is a individual as well.

I did.

I went to Suburban Dayton, Ohio.

And visited one of my good friends.

Hi Jamie.

And had a lovely visit.

It was very chill.

Only downside was that on the trip home I ended up with a, I think,

five hour layover in Chicago.

That should have only been an hour because apparently the air conditioning

on the plane stopped working.

So it was working when the plane was in the air, but not

when it was on the ground.

And it was 90 some degrees in Chicago, which meant that it rapidly got too

hot for them to board the airplane.

So we had to sit there.

Until it cooled off enough.

That's a

valid reason.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Planes are, can be uncomfortable enough during the boarding process,

but if they're they're also as hot as your car when you open.

Yeah.

Open it up in a, on a sunny summer day that's not a

great starchy.

Yeah.

And even once they got it cooled off, it was probably still 90 some degrees

in air and it was one of those little commuter planes, so they wedged it full

of people and got us into the air as fast as possible, which was deeply appreciated.

But it was, it was real warm and real, real sticky in there.

Not delightful.

But it was fantastic to spend the 4th of July with small children, knowing that

when they started screaming and there was crying and there was, fireworks

that none of it was my responsibility, which was really quite nice.

Someone, yeah.

Someone

else's kids.

Yeah.

Yeah.

How have things been at your place, Arlene?

Things are good.

I would say almost, I hate to say it because after I've heard of all your

water issues, I feel like I'm tempting fate here, but quiet and almost boring.

I say that with with bated breath, but yeah, some hay's been happening.

It's been really hot, so we are lucky enough to have, not air conditioning,

but when we renovated the old farmhouse that we live in, we put in geothermal.

So it has like a cooling ability in the summertime and it heats

the house in the wintertime.

The house stays pretty cool.

So a lot of the time we're trying to stay inside.

We installed a bunch of fans in the barn last year, so the cows are

actually staying in more than normal.

We typically do still let our milk cows out, if not every

day, every other day at least.

But when it's really hot, they actually prefer to be in under the

fans rather than out in the blazing sun with a lot of them are black they,

they don't enjoy that quite so much.

So yeah, lots of fans while we're milking and staying cool.

We've been spending a lot of time swimming tonight, like you said

it's Tuesday when we're recording and in our little town, the.

The bagpipe band practices on Tuesday nights.

So we were down at the waterfront, the kids were swimming and we were

listening to the bagpipes and the drums practice and watching them

march around and get ready for the summer parades and things like that.

So that's fun to get to listen to bag pipes and watch your

kids swim at the same time.

Not a, not your typical beach music, but it's pretty, pretty cool.

And in other news, I don't know, I think it's been a couple weeks actually

since we recorded, so we'll say that we have a graduate in the house.

We have someone who has finished high school officially.

She wore the cap and gown and did all those things.

And we had a nice lunch afterwards with the grandparents

and some aunts and uncles.

And of course, my sister brought her inflatables.

So we had a nice Gathering of people who met her outside the

high school as she exited from the ceremony in their inflatable costume.

So that was pretty fun too.

And all three of her brothers actually put inflatables on.

I wasn't sure how they were gonna feel about that.

I left it to my sister to decide who was gonna come and get

dressed up, but they all did.

So that was pretty fun too, to see everybody waiting outside for her when

she was done graduating high school.

The pictures were pretty cute too.

Yes.

Yeah, it was a fun day.

Yeah.

So I think that's, The basics of what's been going on around here.

Like I said, boring.

There's been two cow shows so far and another few on the calendar.

So I make it to some and not to others because I think, like I said before,

my boys are not so much into cow shows, but my husband and a daughter are.

So they'll be going to some of those and the boys and I'll be doing

other things on some of those days and some of the more quote unquote

important ones I will go and watch.

But I think the next couple I might opt out of.

I don't mind a cow show, but I can also enjoy not watching cows in their

best hairstyles walk around in very hot

fairgrounds.

I was gonna say the the temperature.

At many summer couch shows really does detract from the yes level

of enjoyability that one might

respond.

Yeah.

And how much cover there might be too.

Some of them, if they're a fully outdoor situation I'm less excited about spending

my whole day and blazing sun watching cows, but I will definitely make it to

some of them.

I will say we took the boy child to the national Normandy show

when he was about 16 months old.

It's fairly, it's a few hours from here.

And it was, at a fairgrounds.

It's a nice little show, and none of us had really considered

that what he knew about cows was to start screaming, come boss.

As soon as he saw cows coming into the ring.

So it was, thankfully people thought it was cute.

Hopefully.

Yeah, but it's, we have some pretty sweet videos of him calling cows.

Yeah.

Calling 'em in the middle of a cow show.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Why

are they not coming or moving in the way that I want them to.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, and also a bunch of our cows got out yesterday, so that was a whole thing.

Oh, great.

Over the water line or in a different zone?

Around it, they could have really made a delightful mess.

It was leaking badly enough that I could literally watch water bubbling

up out of the soil, which Perfect.

When the line is six feet down I shudder to think that the electric

bill is gonna look like next month.

Guess right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

That means your ground has been pretty saturated.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And how does the grass look?

It's out in the driveway the driveway looks real.

Real perky, if that's maybe a bit mushy too.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And we had a heifer in heat for the last few days, so there's been a lot of noise

and water and more water and Right.

Also, it's been a great week, it sounds

. Arlene: Shall we introduce

week?

I suppose we should.

Today we are talking to Dena Stout, who's.

Joining us from Ohio and Dina, we start each of our interviews with the

same question, and this is a way to introduce yourself to our listeners.

So we always ask, what are you growing?

So for farmers that can cover crops and livestock, but it

also covers kids and careers and businesses and lots of other things.

So Dina, what are

you

growing?

Oh, we grow everything from beef to kids and we are growing grass

fed beef production, and we have six kids that we homeschool.

And I'm also in the process of growing a motherhood support

business that I'm helping moms through their journey of motherhood.

That's great.

So as a farming podcast, of course, people always want the details.

What kind of cows and approximately how many are we talking about?

So our base herd is 25 and we have 25 mama cows and they are herford Angus.

We usually do the Herford Mamas with the Angus Bull, and we're

switching over to purebred Harfords.

And we do we do grass-fed beef preferably.

And we have 94 acre farm.

One moment.

Sure.

The three year old found me, uhoh at me, honey.

At me.

Me.

Okay.

You're gonna have to go back downstairs like mommy told you.

And you're gonna hang out with your brother and you can tell Cashy about it.

Okay.

Just like that.

Oh, no.

He today being mean yes.

Yes.

Anyone who's listening knows all about that, so that's a good good intro.

What ages are all of these kids?

Yes.

I'm guessing there's a

three-year-old.

Yes, there's a three-year-old.

So I have a one-year-old, three-year-old, six yearold old.

A 12 year old and 15 year old.

Five boys.

One girl.

Wow.

That is a lot of little people in your house.

Yes.

I love the positive cause that's what happens when I go, I've got four

and I do that when I go through the rages because it feels like someone

has always just had a birthday, so it's make sure I get this right.

Yes.

They're all mostly in the spring, so it's like we're all in their birthday month.

So I'm going, who's what age now?

Yeah, that's right.

How old are they today?

Yes,

exactly.

So we are all on a 94 acre farm and we actually have farmed in two states.

West Virginia is where the family farm like the heritage of beef farming was.

And then we transitioned and moved our family and farm operation into

Ohio and that's where we are now.

So a lot of

farms.

Seemed to be tied to, like you said, the family farm.

How was that transition going from, not just within the state even, but from one

state to another and starting a new spot?

How did that happen?

It was a lot of it, it was difficult.

It was very difficult because you have all these memories.

My, it was three or four generations on the one farm, and

it was really hard because we had to leave like that heritage.

And unfortunately due to family disagreements it just had to be

turned over to different people.

And so we had to start our own heritage and that was painful,

but exciting all at the same time.

So now to be able to have something that is ours and

we're creating our own memories.

We've had our land for four years.

It was just open crop land with some woods.

So we've really taken it and put it over into our style of how we

want it, which is, good and bad.

It's a lot of work, but it also has been really a great experience and now the

kids really can feel a part of it because they've been through the whole process

of it and they get to make their own memories to tell their families about.

So it's been nice.

As someone who is living on our farm, Our kids are the

fifth generation on this farm.

What do you, who do you blame stuff on when you come up

against a stupid decision?

Because here at least it can be like, who the hell did this?

But if it's just you, who do you blame?

Yeah, what, where do you go with it?

Because I feel like that's probably one of my most common like complaints

to the universe is who the hell thought this was a good idea?

Yeah.

Or who did this?

Oh, I think, I feel like I'd really have a tough time with this.

Yeah.

We

just blame it on the previous owners.

What were they thinking?

Why didn't they, do the drain tile this way?

Because like I said, there was really, there were no buildings, so there was

only just some underground elements, like gas lines like unburied, gas lines.

Through the trails.

So we've hit those a time or two and have had natural gas just spewing everywhere.

So that's been fun.

So yeah, we have a few people we blame for that.

But yeah, it makes things interesting

for sure.

So did you also grow up on a farm, or how did you I did not.

How did you get?

I wanted to be on a farm.

I was in a, just a small, typical town and I loved horses and so my

sister and I, we boarded our horses.

We never had the farm because my dad was from New Jersey, so

a half acre was a farm to him.

He was happy with that and my mom liked to look at animals, but wasn't

very into, nature, things like that.

But my sister and I just loved horses.

So we spent, from the time we were like, Seven and eight just in the

barn and taking riding lessons.

I just always wanted to be in that environment.

And then I met my husband who was like, yeah, I love farming.

I, my grandparents do beef cattle and it's so much fun.

And so we just started doing farm things together.

And then as we started out as a married couple, we actually started

in town on a little, like half acre postage stamp with the mind.

Yeah.

So we started on a little half acre with the plan to move up to the family

farm and then we couldn't because of, like I said, just some family

disagreements and so we decided to start our own and that's how, where we are.

So the, you mentioned in your intro that you're

motherhood support coach.

Have I got that wording right?

Yes.

I know you have a podcast yourself because I've been listening

to you in my ears lately.

And one of the things you talked about was teaching parents how to cope and also

how to move beyond coping into thriving.

Can you talk with us about some of the first steps when you're trying to

even just get to coping and then, like beyond that, into the thriving part?

Sure.

Cause that some days that feels impossible.

Yes.

So for me, I think the first thing is really about our thoughts.

So as we're in a really hard day and we can feel like everything is

happening to us in that we don't really have any control over the situation.

And sometimes what happens is we get so caught up in our expectations of how we

wanted things to go and what things should have looked like and what our plan was.

And we judge ourselves by that.

So we're like, oh, I had this set out but I didn't reach that.

Okay, but why didn't you reach that?

Maybe it's because you have a sick child that day.

Maybe it's because you know something got spilled that you weren't expecting

and now you're late for your appointment.

And taking the time to realize that the things that happen we

can't always control, but we could control how our thoughts about them

and that it's so important to not be judging ourselves so harshly.

And we really need to show ourselves mental compassion and to understand

that was a great goal and you had every intention of doing it, but due to life

surprises, limitations, it didn't happen.

That was a perfect plan, but now what actually happened?

And how to really control your thoughts in your day-to-day as to

how you deal with your motherhood and how you deal with different things

that you're thrown into the mix of.

And for myself, I started out with, I always felt that I needed to work

harder, do more, and that there was a problem with me because I wasn't

reaching these high expectations that I had set out for myself.

And so I felt that people could see how hard I was trying and that

they needed to help me because I felt like I was struggling.

Everybody else felt like I was succeeding, and there was this dis disconnect.

And I'm going, I'm so worn out.

I'm so tired, I'm so frustrated.

Why is nobody helping me more?

And it really turned out that I needed to say, Hey, I'm exhausted.

I can't do this.

And then say, will you help me in this way?

And when we do that, it really gives our loved ones around us the

opportunity to show how they care for us, how they appreciate us.

But if we keep going along and saying, I'm fine, it's fine.

I got this.

Then what ends up happening is we create this hard shell, we become resentful.

Towards our loved ones around us, and we're mad because they're not helping,

but they don't even know what we need.

And another important part is that we, when we're feeling these

this way, it's really important to think about how am I feeling?

What caused me to feel this way?

And what would actually make me feel different?

What would actually make me feel better?

And it's important that we get really clear on that because if we don't, then

we could just say, oh, I need help.

Let's say I'm thinking, I need help.

I want to go out for coffee by myself.

And instead my husband does the dishes.

There's gonna be, I'm still gonna be annoyed, and he's gonna be

like, boy, anything I do doesn't make her happy because I helped

out and she's still miserable.

And so it's really important to focus in on what it is that we

need, how we can voice what we need, and then how others can help us.

So that's really like the beginning is our thoughts and then how we re relate our

thoughts and our feelings to other people.

I think that's like the first part.

What's a good way to respond when you ask for help and you're actually

explicit about what you need and your partner or the person you're asking

maybe can't, for a variety of reasons, like it's harvest season or they're at

capacity and they really can't help out.

How do you deal with then those feelings of I did the thing,

I I asked for what I needed.

And now you're saying no.

Then that.

Because sometimes the asking is really hard to do.

But then, right then the re when you're expecting an enthusiastic yes

and you don't get it, how do you deal with that process in your own head?

Yes.

So I like to say it's, this is when you say they, they love me,

they respect me, they heard me.

So I can't get this right now.

So what are the things that I could do right now?

And sometimes maybe that break is I would really like to go out of the house,

but that's not a reality right now.

So what is a reality?

What is something that I could do that would give me that same mental break, but.

Isn't leaving the house.

So I really enjoy to, I like to recommend using AirPods, put in your earbuds

and, put the kids in a safe space.

And then whether it's a podcast or whether it's your favorite music, something

that you know will change your mood.

I think a lot of times it's easy to just grab our phones

and, scroll and think, I'm fine.

Or maybe put on Netflix and binge, but it really needs to be something more.

Because if you notice when you do those behaviors, you still keep those

negative feelings because now you're on, you're scrolling and you're seeing

people who are the highlight reel.

So then it's just starting to make your mood feel even worse because you're

like, all these people are having a great time and I'm over here miserable

and I'm angry and all the emotions.

And so instead, it's better to think.

What is something that perks my mood and makes me feel better.

And even when it gets to the point where you can't do something like that,

whether it's, putting the kids in front of a, the television to go take a hot

shower or something, then I like to think about, okay, am I drinking enough water?

Could I go outside?

Could I literally go outside and get some fresh air?

Just that change of scenery, which, we're farm wives.

We know how much we can be outside, but then yeah, there's seasons and

there's times where we're all inside.

So

maybe I could drink water outside and

multitask.

There you go.

There you go.

The important things of like proper nutrition, just.

Like how have I eaten today?

Maybe that's part of my mood.

Maybe I need to eat.

I was so busy feeding everybody else, I forgot to make sure I had lunch today.

So really looking for those opportunities.

Keep your mind in like problem solving in instead of, everything's happened to me.

I'm the victim here, poor me.

Someone needs to come and change this for me.

It's nice to think about.

I often think, how would I resp, how would I talk to a friend?

Would I ever talk to someone?

I love the way I talk to myself.

And it sounds like you're suggesting that we should also consider, if

I treated a potted plant the way I treat my body, how would it respond?

Exactly.

No sunlight, no water, lots of sugar is not gonna do it any favors.

Exactly.

No matter how easy that seems.

Totally.

Oh.

One of the biggest struggles that I faced is that, especially before we had

kids, I was a little older than we got.

I'm an expert.

I retired by myself.

It was so having to tell someone what I needed, the mental burden of having to

think what would be helpful, and then my husband not being cyclic, and me having

likeactually room has been such a strain.

I just, it ends in this.

It's easier to do it.

I'll just do it.

It becomes such a horrible martyr.

You.

You won't do it right.

So I'll just do it myself.

Oh yes.

Why doesn't anyone ever help me?

I'm like cuz I didn't give you any chances to help me.

So I'm wondering what your thoughts are on how to get out of that cycle because

it's just more work to ask for help, yes.

But also nobody helps you if you don't tell them what you need.

Very am.

Something to think about is ask yourself what can I, what am

I okay with being done poorly?

Okay.

If you have kids and you're telling them to load the dishwasher so I can sit

there and think you're doing it wrong.

I d it's not the right way.

It's not exact.

Or I can be like, Hey, The dishes are getting done, it doesn't matter.

And that is another important thing, is to think about what

can I handle being done poorly?

Can I lower my expectations on this?

Obviously, if you're, if it's something where you're worried about your

child's safety or something like that, you know you're gonna choose wisely.

But some things, it's just, we're gonna let it just be the

action of letting them help.

After they've gotten into the routine of helping, then

their confidence is built up.

Now you can make some suggestions, but it's a lot of giving

and taking because Exactly.

As women, it's oh, come load the dishwasher.

Okay, now wait, you need to do it this way, that way.

I don't like this.

I don't like that Nobody likes to be micromanaged and it's it important

to just look at the big picture.

Look at the big picture, and we have to pick like what we're willing to

sacrifice and what we're willing to, give, to have a ba a, a bigger response

and a bigger oh, what's the word?

Fulfillment in that.

I think too, there's so much power in learning to give yourself

some grace on those days that let, letting your four year old help wash

dishes is just not gonna happen.

And, you're not going to ruin your child's ability to be useful forever.

If there's one day that you're just like, go watch tv Yep.

Just go somewhere else.

Yep.

And leave me alone.

Exactly.

So because.

Sometimes they have to learn to just back off too.

Yes.

That's a valuable skill for humans to have is to just go away.

Yes.

I'm a great mom, obviously.

No I am a good mom and and this is the other thing is, it's

so hard to say I'm a good mom.

Because I am, my kids are happy, they're well adjusted, they're decent humans.

They haven't said anything on fire yet, and they're, six and almost five.

So I feel good about that.

Yeah.

You're teaching them to read the room.

It's

embarrassing how hard it is.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And sometimes what the room is saying is go away.

Yeah.

That's right.

Now

is not the time to be in the kitchen.

No,

You said it.

No, we have a very small kitchen too, and it's the only bathroom in our house

is on the far side of the kitchen.

Oh, perfect.

And we have two big dogs.

And the kitchen is the first room you walk into and it's just no.

Just

get out.

Oh, I get that so much Tiny kitchen right now and with eight people and

they all come in and the refrigerator, water dispenser, I can stand like at

the refrigerator and I can reach the sink and the stove all at one time.

So with eight people and a dog and the water dispenser, everybody comes

in and I'm like, I'm out of here.

But Katie, you said it you said, I'm a good mom.

And that's what we need to tell ourselves because I think that's

the number one thing when you start feeling like mom, guilt.

It, that right there proves that you're a good mom because you're

worried that you're not doing it right.

So you know that you are a good mom because you care

and you want to do it right.

And that's something that I first started reframing because when there were times

where I felt like I was messing up as a mom, what, let's say, the kid back when my

kids went to school, let's say they forgot something, or I forgot it was teacher

appreciation week or something like that.

And I would tell myself, oh, I'm such a terrible mom.

I'm such a terrible mom.

I'm messing everything up.

And then I started a new mantra and I started saying, I'm doing the best I can.

I'm doing, I am a good mom.

And just that reframe, like the response in my body of, I'm doing

the best I can, just calmed the nerves and okay, no pressure.

We got this.

We're gonna just do the best we can.

That's all that's expected and it really plays a big difference in our bodies.

I think too, for myself, taking that one step further and really saying,

I am doing the best I can right now, right here, because it's so easy.

I find myself going well, but I was better at this yesterday.

But that was yesterday.

This is today.

Is this relatively close to the best that I can reasonably give right now?

Yes.

And to reframing for myself that if, I worry so much that people are judging me

and that if people are judging, they can either be helpful or they can go away.

That's not on me.

If they're judging me, that's on them.

And that's, that if you're worried that somebody's judging if your

house isn't clean enough, they can get the broom or they can go home.

Yes.

That's.

That's not my problem.

Yes.

That's, they can just go away with that.

Yep.

It's, I think we need to reframe so much of this is that it's,

my children are my problem.

My dogs are my problem, my work is my problem.

Other people's judgment not my problem.

Exactly.

That's all on them.

Yes.

I hopped down off my soapbox on that one.

I

100% agree with your soapbox.

Just go away.

Yes.

It's, yes.

Its probably easier for introverts to say it like, I don't care if you leave.

Cool, you're gonna leave me alone.

Awesome.

Yeah.

Which makes it a rough transition into this next question.

Okay.

Is that being a parent can be really lonely.

And especially I think for farm parents, like Arlene was saying about that.

There are times that your partner.

Cannot give you what you're asking for because there are other commitments.

How do we work on reaching out?

And what are some of the common struggles that you see with the

people that you're working with?

How do we fix

all of them.

Oh, I wish I had, I wish I had the special power of Hey,

this is how we fix all of it.

I think that the first thing is to not think you're the only one who's

ever felt the way you're feeling.

Cuz I can guarantee you there's a lot of moms that feel that way and dealing with

the feeling of loneliness and isolation.

I dealt with a lot of times because my husband was farming out of state.

So he was gone, or I went with him a lot, but there were a lot of times that

I wasn't, and I think it's really good to evaluate that this is an opportunity,

this is an opportunity that you can grow.

And when we think about somebody who is doing weightlifting and they're

trying to build muscles, they, their muscles break down and then the next

day they repair and they get bigger.

And I like to tell women to think of their motherhood as a muscle.

And you're gonna have a day where you just feel like you're broken

and everything just came apart.

But from that experience, the next day and the days that are after,

you're actually growing in your experience, in your resources that

you have to go with the next thing.

And when you're dealing with the loneliness, definitely try

to search out someone that you feel like you can connect with.

And social media is a great way.

Listening to podcasts is another great way because you don't feel as lonely.

You hear people's stories.

So you get those moments of, Hey, me too.

And it can lead to really good relationships and

it can make a difference.

But if you are feeling, if you're following accounts where you feel like

you're just not measuring up or that you can't relate, and you feel like

you, you have negative emotions about yourself afterwards, definitely mute them.

Get away from them.

Stop following for a while and look for the ones that are really

sharing and talking to those emotions that you're feeling as well.

And don't be afraid to reach out.

Try to join mommy groups in the local area.

Go to the library and you'll see moms that are feeling the same things that you are.

So if they're a mom, they've, we've all felt those emotions, but definitely

reach out and ask for support.

There's no shame in asking for help in whatever way you need it for sure.

Yeah.

That's important

to remember.

I find too, I think that we as younger moms younger like whether you're a

first time parent or, look around, but don't look for someone who's maybe in

the exact same stage as you, right?

Like I would, it would be amazing for me to be able to support someone who is just

starting out or I remember looking at, my mother-in-law as a support person for me

and she wasn't the only person who was.

Was older than me in rural communities.

You have to look at who's there too, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

The people around you may not be the exact same age or stage, but they can

still support you and you shouldn't feel like a burden because sometimes

someone would love to hold your baby while you have a shower or whatever.

Like it, it's sometimes easier for some of the times easier for someone to help

you if they're not in the same stage.

If their hands are full with babies and toddlers, maybe someone who's

got a six or seven year old and has, a smidge of more free time or empty

hands might be the ideal person to reach out to in, in that day.

Yes.

Where you really need somebody.

Exactly.

I totally agree, Arlene.

I was thinking that it's good to look for someone who's three to five years ahead

of you, because sometimes I've heard that, some women have a struggle with.

Either their in-laws or their parents' age, because life is so different.

Life is so different now from what it was when they were raising kids.

I think about it with my mom.

I'm like, she never had to deal with all of the electronic bombardment that

I deal with today with my children.

And so there's can be some sort of a disconnect.

Like I love the values and there's a lot of great resources and

knowledge that they can impart, but then there's also circumstances

that they haven't dealt with yet.

So when you find someone that's three to five years ahead of you, or even

10 years, it can really help cuz they, it's still fresh in their mind.

Sometimes I would ask my mother-in-law about things and my husband's

the youngest of four siblings and they were like 12 years apart.

So I would ask her some things and she would be like, I don't remember.

So I was like, okay, try to look for somebody else then

to ask about, so yeah, just

ask.

Yes.

Or they're looking back with rose colored glasses and they're

like, oh, everything was perfect.

They're like, that can't be true.

Exactly.

Oh my goodness.

Yes.

That is so true.

For sure.

Yeah, I've heard that.

And anyone who still has, yeah, anyone who still has kids in their house, like

if they've got teenagers and you've got little ones, then they're not

gonna judge your parenting because they don't know what they're doing either.

They're at a whole different stage and they're struggling with

different things than you are.

Oh, yes.

Absolutely.

Katie, did you have anything else you wanted to say before we

moved on to my homeschooling question?

I was gonna say that quite possibly the kindest thing that anyone has ever

done for me as a parent was my husband and I took the girl child to a tractor show

when she was eight months old, probably.

And I wanna say it was right before I got pregnant with our second kid.

Our kids are 16 months apart, but we were at a restaurant, we had been in the

car for five hours and then we went to a tractor show and we stayed in a hotel

and we went to a restaurant and she's, throwing stuff and acting like a baby.

And we're trying to eat and we're both exhausted.

And finally a fam, a group of older folks that had been at the same tractor

show because small town Minnesota.

Everybody's wearing a bright orange shirt, it's obvious who they are.

This woman comes over and she's probably in her seventies and she

goes, that baby needs a grandma.

And she held out her arms and I just, I was so shocked and exhausted

that I just handed her my kid.

I'm like, we're in a family restaurant.

She's not gonna kidnap her.

Like this woman's fairly old.

I could take her, I could chase her.

She's not gonna run with my baby, okay.

And she did.

She just took her over to their table and they all, this was obviously pre

pandemic and they just passed her around and we ate our supper in peace.

And it was like, there's a lot to be said for having those friends where

you can just raid their diaper bag for wipes or snacks or whatever.

But there's also a lot to be said for those folks who have

the capacity to just help.

Yeah.

And as my kids are getting older, being able to pass that on even a

little bit to newer parents to be like, your baby's not wearing socks

and I'm not gonna comment on it.

Or I'm just gonna say that your kid's real cute and I'm not gonna

go, that baby's gonna freak.

Yes.

Cause you know, no child has died yet.

Lack of socks.

Yeah.

But just to be open about that community because there's so much that

if no one tells you that everybody is struggling because everybody

assumes they're the only one.

Then you don't know that everybody else is having the same problems.

And I think the more we can just be out there with it, the

more useful it is to folks.

Yeah.

I

think there's

for just putting my personal stuff all over the end,

so I won't tell.

I think too that there's a fine line between unwanted advice and then sharing

a good experience, I think it can be so tricky as far as I've seen both sides.

Sometimes women don't wanna say anything when someone is looking for.

Answers and advice because they're like I don't wanna come across as pushy.

I don't wanna let them, I don't wanna make them feel like I'm pushing my opinions on

them, so I'm just not gonna say anything.

And I'm going, but wait they wanna know I wanna know your secret.

This worked for you.

Why did it work for you?

Tell me about it.

And so it's that whole fine line of sharing and helping to offer support.

In a positive way, without the judgment, I think no

judgey.

Yeah.

I think that loops back to what you were saying before, though,

being willing to ask for help.

Because if you have those people in your life, the ones who you most want

the advice from are the non judgy ones who are gonna hold back until you ask.

Yeah.

So if you say so true, I am actually asking a question here, what would you do?

Or what did you do?

Ask the question.

And as the person who might have some advice, it's also important

to ask the question first.

If they don't explicitly ask, do you want to know what I did?

Are you looking for advice?

Like those are valid questions and the, and then you have to listen to the answer.

But to be, but to start with, I have something that might work.

Do you want to hear it right now?

Are you in a place to hear what I have to say?

Because if they say no, then that's fair too.

They might have tried a million things and they just don't want to

hear one more piece of advice and they don't want what you have to say.

And that's fair

too.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

I love the way you phrased that.

Are you in a place, would you like to hear the advice?

Yeah.

Because it's so true.

It's just a common courtesy.

Yeah.

I feel like for myself too, if I can couch it in, I really struggled with X, Y, and

Z, or I just found out about this thing.

At least with folks that you don't know well enough to just go ahead and

ask 'em your stupid question, knowing that they're gonna laugh at you, but

that they're laughing because they've totally dealt with the same thing.

But that if you can say, oh, my kids love to be, they loved it

when I wore them, or, we found this kind of jammies that were totally

better than the ones with the snaps.

Or like what, whatever it is.

If you can bring it back to your own experience of struggling with things

rather than just did you not know about.

Have you heard of zippers?

Like maybe you didn't know this.

Yeah.

Maybe you've been living under a rock, but yeah.

Maybe you are actually as stupid as an empty soup can, but yeah.

Just stay away from those people.

Yes.

Anyone who starts a sentence with maybe you didn't know, just Yeah.

I feel like I can categorically say stay away from it.

Yes.

Nothing that is gonna happen.

Exactly.

And

follow your guide.

Yeah.

Until your kids get old enough, Katie, that they start to

actually, you so actually mom.

Yes.

Also,

then you have the girl child, then you have to live with the other day.

You got

actually, yeah.

Yeah.

She's six now.

She knows a lot of stuff.

That's

right.

So speaking about knowing a lot of, yeah.

Speaking about knowing a lot of stuff, you said you're a homeschooler

and I know that lots of people are curious about homeschooling.

Homeschooling, curious.

Is that a thing?

Yeah.

But not really sure how to do it or what it would look like.

So I was wondering what brought you to homeschooling, cuz you did mention

your kids were in school before.

Yeah.

And how does that look day to day with the number of people in your house and the,

all the things that you've got going on?

So first off, my confession is I never went to school.

I never went to a public school.

I was pulled out with a group of about 25, maybe 30 kids.

As soon as it was made legal in our state of Ohio, my mom and her

group of friends pulled us out.

So I was.

Raised homeschooling.

So for myself, it just always seemed natural that's what I

was going to do when I had kids.

And growing up it availed itself to so many opportunities for me that I was able

to have so many different experiences.

I was able to be way more involved with our taking care of our horses.

And it opened up to different work aspects because I had a lot of life

experience that I could bring to my jobs and I was able to graduate early.

So for me, homeschooling was like the best thing growing up,

honestly, I was like perplexed by the whole school system because I

never had a reason to go in there.

So it always was different for me.

So now fast forward, I'm a mom and I have.

A child that I was like, we're gonna homeschool and this is all gonna be great.

And I was doing the younger grades with him and noticing that there were

just things that were not clicking.

And I started having some red flags.

So around fourth grade, by this point I had four children and I was

trying to homeschool some of the other ones and I had a little one.

So it was very chaotic, very messy.

We tried doing online public schooling and that just kept getting messier cuz

he found a way to oh, I'm in class, but really I'm surfing the internet.

And I couldn't sit there and babysit him and that wasn't the point of it.

So we decided that it was time to take him and put him into public school at f.

Fifth grade.

So in person public school, I'll clarify that.

And so I was called into a board meeting and there were about 10 people at the

boardroom and they said, we're here to talk about your son's education.

And they went down the line as to, this is a reading interventionist,

this is a reading specialist, this is your ot, this is this.

And I thought no wonder I'm so tired I couldn't do the work of 10 people.

So they worked with him and helped him.

Then fa so him and my younger grades were all in public school all while they're

in public school, a lot was happening.

We had more kids.

We had baby number five and C O V I D hit and everybody came home and we moved.

Like I said, we were on this little half acre.

So we moved and now I'm in this home that we're renting currently, and we have 40

acres and we were in lockdown, right?

So the kids finished out the school year and then I'm looking,

going, I, this is ridiculous.

I just need to homeschool.

This is what I want.

This is where we're at.

This is what's gonna be best for our family.

So it was nerve wracking to say the least, because I was used to

sending three kids off on the bus.

My oldest, we homeschooled, the oldest grade, he takes care

of things and he's a help and.

When you have a teenager and a little one, it makes it really easy because

then the teenager can help you.

It's okay if you leave him with the baby to go run errands at the store,

so life looked totally different and I was this is easier now.

But then there was still the stress of keeping up with the school's

agenda, which was really hard.

And the kids were missing out on things With the farming, the kids were

missing out on the whole process of setting up our farm at our new place.

And cuz we're in the process right now of building our house and I just

felt this just isn't working for us.

It just felt really uncomfortable.

And I wanna say, when you have something just burning in your heart

that you are like, I have to do this.

I don't know how I'm gonna do this.

It's gonna be messy.

Just do it because the calm and the satisfaction of following

that intuition and that pool on your heart is just so important.

And so now my kids are home and they're helping with, we have goats

here at our rental home, and then we have the cows at our new place.

And so the kids have been able to help with the building of our home.

My teenager has been learning drywall and tile work, and they're getting

so much life experience that I'm so grateful for that decision that was a

right fit for our family at that time.

So I definitely feel that.

School system has its place and homeschooling has its place, and you

just have to figure out which one is the right fit for you and your family.

And I really like the homeschooling flexibility I get

to decide what they're learning.

Ohio has pretty, pretty great laws about homeschooling, and so I

decided to take advantage of that.

And so it gets messy sometimes.

There's days where it's okay, so your schooling today was helping

out with the house, taking care of the animals and bottle feeding

that calf and things like that.

So it's more of an education that works for the family.

That's good to

remember too, that just because you're doing it now doesn't mean you have

to do it next year or you know that that.

You when public school was what you needed, you sent your kids there,

and then when it wasn't working anymore, then you went another way.

That there, that you were flexible too, right?

And you didn't feel like a failure because oh, now they're in school and

that wasn't my intention I failed.

Yeah, it, it worked for a time and then when it wasn't that

you made a different choice.

So I think that's a really great example for them too, to realize,

they've had multiple opportunities too to see different ways to learn.

Definitely.

I think too for children that they have different learning styles and following

which style is suitable for which child?

My one son, he does better actually with a little bit more of the

competition of the other classmates.

And then my other son that's like the detriment.

So really knowing which environment is better and sampling if you want to, and

it just, it really is trial and error, but if something's not working, definitely

check out what o other options you have.

So's important.

So for those of us who aren't homeschooling full-time there are

certainly things that I find very appealing about homeschooling,

but just for our family, between work and what has most helped our

daughter develop she didn't talk at all until she started public school

because she just didn't need to.

Mostly, we did speech therapy and did speech therapy and she was just like,

nah, she got what she wanted and it was, but the minute she got in with

peers and they wouldn't play with her unless she talked to 'em, she just.

Bang.

And so I think public school has been a very good situation for her.

But how can we wrap more of the positives of homeschooling into our public school

attending life without it feeling like we're just schooling our kids 24 7 in a,

kids obviously are learning all the time.

Yeah.

But it feels really harsh to have them come home and be

like, here is some more math.

Beyond the experiential stuff, it seems, I think,

A little rude but true.

Very true.

I think when they're out of school, then that's when we get to just

saturate them in the real world.

And when I say the real world, helping them with things that are

gonna matter in their day-to-day lives when they've graduated.

Obviously not for a six year old, that's a little different.

But just asking questions, showing them, if we set the

example that learning is fun.

If they see us learning new things, trying new things, then they're also

gonna be more apt to doing that.

And I think we've tried to like package learning so much and really learning

is just part of all of our development.

We all just start out learning and when the kids' curiosity

is perked about something, then that's when the learning happens.

And I think we have such a great example and such great resources being.

On the farm because we can be outside so much more where the kids

are in a more relaxed environment.

And then just teaching them and asking questions and the things that we can share

with them to broaden their knowledge.

You never know what's gonna p perk their curiosity.

And then they're gonna go and take that and wanna do and learn more about it.

And just giving tho them those resources available.

You wanna learn about that?

Great.

Let's go look it up together.

Let's go find out more information about that together.

And then they see how fun it can be.

So two, obviously one of the things we talk a lot about is the

transition from no kids to kids.

So obviously with six kids you've done this a few times.

What was it like for you with that first kid though?

And also, I'm gonna add to this Okay.

Which, I know some folks who say that the transition from

one to two was the hardest.

I know some folks who say that the transition from

zero to one was the hardest.

I know folks who say that once you get past three, it really

doesn't matter how many you have.

So I'm wondering what your thoughts are on that.

Okay.

Because it, it seems to be a real division among people about

what was the biggest change

for them.

Okay.

So to answer about becoming a mom, I had a lot of good examples of

good moms growing up that I watched.

So being maternal was always very much instinctual with me.

I was also a nanny before I became a mom.

Actually, before I became a wife, I was a nanny.

And I actually went through like the whole.

Finding yourself and balancing taking care of yourself and a child.

When I was a nanny and then I also went through it again when

I had my first, my first born.

So it was interesting because I was nannying about 40, 45 hours a week

and I looked like the mom because even though I was only 19, I was, hair was

always in a ponytail, barely any makeup, wasn't really taking care of myself.

I just was like schlepping up to work and doing the mom thing and

taking care of two little ones and going home and being exhausted.

So there was definitely this like juggle.

And that's why I quit being a nanny was because I was burned out, but then

I became a mom and I couldn't quit.

So it was time to figure this out.

And what helped me was I, it was about the transition of three to four kids

that really just started pooling at me.

Again, my husband was farming out of state, so he was gone and, or

we would go out of town constantly.

There was a lot of things going on, and I just was like, this, I'm fried.

And I just kept telling myself I had to try harder, I had to do more.

I wasn't I had to figure this out.

And what changed for me was when I started looking at women who

seemed to have what I wanted.

And instead of, I, I used to look at them and go, oh, sure they have

more money they can hire help.

They, have a live-in nanny and a housekeeper and someone

who cooks for them, whatever.

And then I found someone that I was like she was offering to coach

women and to help moms with burnout.

And I thought, you know what?

She has what I'm trying to get and I wanna find out what her secret is.

And when I did, that's when everything switched for me.

And I was able to realize, oh, I'm not a victim in my life and I can figure

this out and we're just gonna rearrange some things in our life and in our

thought process and this is gonna change.

And from that point on, I really start, started a different journey from being

the tired, overwhelmed, stressed out mom who was miserable all the time.

And that's the thing we all go through tired, stressed, and overwhelmed.

The difference is, do we stay there?

How long are we there?

Is it a day, is it a week or is it a lifestyle?

And that's where you have to look and say, okay, it's time for change.

I don't wanna be miserable.

I don't wanna be tired and angry and resentful all the time.

It's time to do something about it.

And that's what I did and that's what helped me transition out of the new mom

phase, even though I was a mom to four.

Yeah.

I mean it's that, that aspect of getting overwhelmed and feeling out of control

or feeling like you've gotten out of your depth can hit you at different

points, but it's really, it's good to know that you got some support and that,

that made it a real difference for you.

So part of our reason for doing this podcast is to talk to other farming

parents, and we're always curious about what you really like about being

able to raise your kids on the farm.

What lights you up when you see your kids being raised on the land that

you're growing and raising animals on?

I think I love the fact that they get to see the results of their hard work.

That they get to see, if I apply myself and if I work hard, this is gonna happen.

That there's a lot of oh, what's the word?

Just this real fulfillment in it.

And to watch them with the animals and, Their faces light up.

There was a land born this morning.

We had, there's a new kid.

And to watch them nurture and to handle the animals and take care of them.

I think those are skills that our society is losing is the nurturing and the

hard work and the hard physical work.

There's nothing wrong with the kids working hard.

And I think I love so much the family, the farm family comradery of we're in this

together, we're working on this together.

We're a family unit.

This is how we do things.

This is our goal as a family and let's all stick together.

I really like that.

So sorry then What have the challenges been for you?

Besides what I can only imagine is a tremendous amount of laundry.

Cause if I have this much laundry with four people, I feel like

eight people is probably more than twice as much with kids.

It does not seem to be Oh, yes.

Attitude.

Oh yes.

And the clothes get bigger too.

Kg?

Yes.

Oh, don't that.

Yes.

Yes.

Because I, I have teenage boys and so

it's and huge shoes.

Those jeans are these, they're huge.

Yes.

Yeah.

Huge footwear boots everywhere.

Yes.

Yes.

The boots.

Boots

are huge.

Yes.

We're all just gonna have to go barefoot.

Yes.

When my kids get into the gir size.

Cause there's already so many boots that it's just this yeah.

It's a whole thing.

Yeah.

Okay.

So

the biggest challenge, oh my goodness.

Yeah, I think it's.

Just the day to day, we can get caught up in just the hard work and the

to-do list of what has to be done.

So the challenge of balancing that there's work and there's play and they're

both important because if we don't have the play, then that's when the

burnout and the frustration builds up.

And so I think that is one of the hardest things to keep level.

But we're working on it.

We're working on it.

We're all a work in progress, right?

Yes.

Yes.

So you have a pretty wide range of ages of kids.

What are some of the practical ways that you get them involved, whether

it's during their school day or outside of kind of the formal school hours?

What kinds of tasks?

Cuz I'm always looking for, ways for people to help out.

Age appropriate ones.

Yes.

Yes.

So the oldest, typically he goes and helps dad.

He, my husband does farming and he does a construction business as well.

So he has been busy learning the construction trades and, but as far

as helping out around the house, it's the typical helping with

dishes and laundry and childcare.

That has been, that's been a really big gift when it comes

to the large family aspect.

It is so special to watch your teenager, who always was rough and tough, be kind

and gentle and loving with a baby, and to have the child's eyes just light up

when the teenager walks in the room.

It's so precious to watch.

So the teenager helps out a lot, but I try very hard to ask and not expect.

Because I never want him to feel like I didn't have these kids.

I don't want kids.

I'm always being dumped on.

And so then the other ones they help with laundry and, farming.

Farming has a long list of chores, and so they help a lot with that.

They have helped a lot with our with the building of our new house.

They did hardwood flooring.

The little ones helped carry the pieces, and they were so happy to be helpful.

And they helped a little bit with some of the painting where it

was suitable, where they could be messy and it not be an issue.

And yeah just helping them like, Hey, this is the big picture.

This is our project that we're working on, and this is how it's

going to benefit you in the long run.

And I think that really helps them too because like I said, building our house

has been almost two years, so they've been through this process and we're all

tired, but we're all getting it done.

And it's a whole heap of memories and lessons learned, and

that's what matters.

I think it's so cool to talk about asking your kids to participate, because I know

so many families where the parents take on goats and chickens and whatever, whatever.

And then it's just added to the kids' chores list.

And like on the one hand, it is really important for them to

learn to be part of the team.

But on the other hand, it's really unfair to just take on all these things without

them getting any say in it and then it getting handed over to them, especially

when it's not what supports the family.

When it's not a, when it's a hobby for the parents, but it's

a requirement for the kids.

Yes.

That's, yes.

It's not unfair.

It's not cool.

And, oh, anyway, it's

funny you brought that up.

My oldest is funny because he doesn't, he's not into animals.

He's not into animals.

He likes all the equipment.

And his thing is because he doesn't want something that he feels will

live or die based on his actions.

Like he just, he likes other things that you could just put it on the

shelf and it can leave it there for five years and it'd be fine.

So it is interesting because children, yeah there's a difference

for sure.

But how great for your kids too, to get that opportunity to learn

these things about themselves?

When it's not, oh, should I bought 40 cows and I actually hate having

cows and now I have all these cows and what the hell was, I think yes.

Yes.

Much better to look at 15 when they're not your cows and you can just be like, yep.

Yes.

All right.

That is a very good question because there's quite a few things

at the county fair that I feel like I would love to try entering.

I don't know.

That's a really good question.

I tried thinking about this even beforehand I'm gonna say I would be

the motivator, best in class motivator.

Being a cheerleader is an important role.

Yes.

I guess, and I guess as a motivator, you're not, I was just gonna say, but you

did say motivator so being a cheerleader is just being positive, but motivator

could also mean that you're the one being like, come on, don't quit now.

Exactly.

It's not just the positivity, it's also the yeah.

Motivator is tough love.

Slightly different than just tough.

Yeah, that's right.

Yes.

All right.

So we will go ahead and move into our cussing and discussing segment.

We've registered for an online platform where listeners can leave

their cussing and discussing entry.

So go to the show notes and click on the SpeakPipe where you can leave us

a voice memo, or you can always send us an email@barnyardlanguagegmail.com

and we will read them out for you.

This is a little deep, but my pet peeve, especially because the day

we're recording, this is International Woman's Day, that women are viewed

as powerful and amazing creatures until they get a pregnancy test that's

positive and then everybody has to second guess the heck out of them.

And that drives me nuts.

That really just gets me so fired up because Katie and I are doing a

lot of, we're capable of doing yeah.

We're capable of doing amazing, wonderful things, but as soon as we say, oh,

I'm pregnant, it's this could go wrong and that could go wrong and all of

these ways you could be a failure.

So I think that's my pet peeve.

Yeah, that's right.

And don't do that task that your doctor has said is completely fine, because

if you put your hands over your head or lift anything heavier than a single

potato, then all of a sudden you're putting yourself and your child at risk.

Yes, let's just trust that the, our bodies can handle a few things.

I, I think the farming families would have just, like not

existed anymore if that was all

true.

Yeah.

All right, so we'll wrap it up quick because I know anyone listening already

knows that this is something to cuss.

It's the mystery smell.

Like you said, knowing, like finding it when you get out, but like

knowing that something smells, but not being able to find the source.

That's the one that I hate, where it's or you walk into a room and you're

like something smells weird, but you have no idea what the smell is or

where the, where it's originated from.

That drives me crazy, and I don't have a great sense of smell, so I'm also always

worried that my house smells anyway and sometimes it is a rotten potato.

I've de, when I can smell something, it's oh dear, how long has this happen?

Oh, that's funny.

Is it Definitely had the rotten potato as the source of the mystery smell, or Yes.

You get something under your finger.

Get something under your fingernail, and it's just like walking around with you.

Yeah.

Mystery smells.

Yeah, that's right.

Yes.

Yeah, that's right.

All right, so we're gonna sign off for today, Dina, if people want to

find you online, if they want to talk to you, where should they find you?

They can find me on Instagram at Dena.

That's d e n a Stout, s t o u t.

That's where I hang out the most.

And then I also was including in your show notes if they would a freebie from me.

I have three tips to thrive as a mom.

That is fantastic.

Thank you so much for that resource, and we'll definitely share

everything in our show notes too.

We'll let you get back.

All

right.

You're gonna say hi to Of course.

Thank you ladies.

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