Season Two continues exploring themes of resilience, inheritance, and reinvention. In Richie Barlow’s story, we saw how unmet needs became entrepreneurial muscle. In this conversation, we step through another doorway—immigration—to ask how identity and family are reshaped across borders.

Mary Grace Lim was born in Carmona Cavite, Philippines, and came to the U.S. twice: once at five with her mother and stepfather, and again at eleven with her sisters. Along the way, she was raised largely by her grandmother, navigated her mother’s long absences and addiction, and found safety in community, sports, and faith.

In this wide-ranging conversation, Mary Grace reflects on:

• 💔 Growing up between two countries — and the ache of leaving her grandmother behind
• 🌱 Raising herself when adults fell short, and the survival instincts that gave her strength
• 🏐 Sports as salvation — how volleyball and basketball gave her purpose, discipline, and voice
• 💸 Generational cycles of money and survival — and how she’s working to break them
• 🙏 Faith and artistry as compass points — discovering God, creativity, and self-forgiveness on her own terms
• 🧩 Healing generational trauma — inspired by Mark Wolynn’s It Didn’t Start With You

At the heart of her story is a hard-won lesson: forgiveness of all parts of the self, and the courage to set new boundaries.

🔗 Resources & Links

• 📘 Book: It Didn’t Start With You: How Inherited Family Trauma Shapes Who We Are and How to End the Cycleby Mark Wolynn
• 🧭 TCOM (Transformational Collaborative Outcomes Management) – Learn more about shared language for healing systems
• 🌍 CDC on Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs)

💬 Favorite Quote

“I think I raised me. I took what I needed from where it was available—and gave myself what I didn’t get.”

🎧 Catch Up or Revisit

Missed our last conversation? Listen to S2 EP13: Finding Light in the Darkest Places and S2 EP14: Hold On Tight with Richie Barlow for more on resilience, survival, and transformation.

Additional Resources

• TCOM
• The Praed Foundation

Credits

• Hosted by Kristen Cerelli
• Cover art by @jacksonfall
• Theme Music by Kristen Cerelli. Additional music by Ray Wyssman and The Simoleons
• Podcast production by Timothy Fall

All content Copyright ActuallyQuiteNice, Inc & TCOM Studios, 2022-2025

Shift Shift Bloom S2 EP 15 : Mary Grace Lim

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[00:00:00] kristen: Here's where season two starts to braid itself together. In Richie Barlow's two-parter, we followed a kid who was never really handed stability and heard how he turned survival skills into entrepreneurial muscle, the kind that built a business, the dog walker, and eventually a life. Those episodes weren't a how-to on business so much as a study in alchemy, taking unmet needs and forging them into strengths.

[00:00:31] Today, that same theme appears through a different doorway, immigration, and another layer that I believe will keep surfacing this season. What we inherit from our mothers and grandmothers and what we choose to set down. You'll hear echoes of Richie's story in my guest's instinct for self-reliance.

[00:00:53] You'll hear echoes of Richie's story in my guest's instinct for self-reliance, mentorship, and building a home from scratch. You'll also hear the distinct contours of leaving one country landing in another and learning to speak in every sense a new language. This will be a thread we follow in upcoming episodes too.

[00:01:14] How migration reshapes, identity, family, and the stories we tell ourselves about belonging.

[00:01:21] My guest, Mary Grace Lim, was born in Carmona Cavita in the Philippines, and first came to the United States as a little girl with her mother later returning as a preteen. She now lives in Phoenix, Arizona.

[00:01:34] In our conversation. Mary Grace traces an immigration journey that's also a family story

[00:01:40] Being raised largely by her grandmother, navigating a mother's absence and addiction, and the way sports artistry and faith helped her raise herself as she puts it. And begin to break some generational cycles.

[00:01:55] If Richie's arc showed us how work can become a scaffold. Mary Grace shows us how voice and community can become a compass together. They map a season wide question, when early needs go unmet by systems, by circumstance, by the very people who should have protected us. How do we learn to give ourselves what we didn't get?

[00:02:19] Mary Grace was generous and unflinching in this interview. We start at the beginning, leaving the Philippines as a child and follow the many ways she's built safety, purpose, and home. Here's our conversation.

[00:02:34] Mary Grace Li Came to the United States with her mother when she was a child. Today she lives in Phoenix, Arizona, where she is gloriously Multihyphenate insurance agent actor, stage combatant athlete, and many, many other things.

[00:02:50] She has willingly and generously decided to share her immigration story with us, and I'm so thankful. Welcome Mary Grace.

[00:02:58] My

[00:02:58] guest today is Mary Grace Lim, who was born in the

[00:03:02] Philippines and came to the United States with her mother when she was a child.

[00:03:07] Today she is a

[00:03:08] multi hyphenate

[00:03:10] insurance agent, actor, stage combatant, athlete, and many, many

[00:03:16] other things.

[00:03:17] She has willingly and generously decided to share her story of immigration

[00:03:23] to this country with us today.

[00:03:25] Mary G: Thank you so much, Kristen. Oh my gosh. You're like going to make me so emotional from that introduction.

[00:03:30]

[00:03:30] do you,

[00:03:31] are you bilingual?

[00:03:32] I am. I speak Tagalog as my native language. and English as a second.

[00:03:38] Um, but there are thousands of dialects in the Philippines. That's just like unheard of. Andthe Tagalog is like the universal. Yeah.

[00:03:46] kristen: I want to know what is your first memory?

[00:03:51] Like your, your oldest memory? And is it, is it a Filipina memory or is it a US memory?

[00:03:56] Mary G: It's a Filipina memory, definitely. And I. When I was very young, I was laying in bed.

[00:04:04] I think I was maybe like barely one, maybe one or two. There's this image of my aunt who was sitting by a window and she was smoking a cigarette. Wow. That was, that's my first memory.

[00:04:21] kristen: Wow.

[00:04:23] tell me a little bit, you mentioned your two sisters and their, their, their age and relationship to you.

[00:04:30] Mary G: My sisters, the backstory with us is that we're actually half sisters, the ones that are here with me in the States. I have one who is younger, like a year and a half younger than me, and another one who's about two, two and a half younger than me.

[00:04:46] dad. Both of them have different dads and When I found this out, I was probably like 14, 15, like very young when I found out we didn't have the same dads.

[00:04:56] kristen: when was the first time you came to the

[00:04:58] Mary G: I was very younger. I was like five.

[00:05:01] kristen: And what were the circumstances that brought you here when you were five?

[00:05:08] Mary G: My mom remarried, um, she married my stepfather, who's American, and

[00:05:14] They got together and then he came back to the Philippines with her and they decided to get married and they took uswith them to the States and they got married in the States and that was my first experience coming to America because of that.

[00:05:30] So,

[00:05:31] kristen: your mom remarries and you come to America at five. Where do you go? Where do you land? What state?

[00:05:40] Mary G: Whose house? house? Um, Nevada. We were in Nevada. My first, um,education experience was, uh, preschool in Nevada. I remember,

[00:05:51] I did. Three years of schooling in America. That was my first education.

[00:05:56] kristen: Did you know English when you got here or you were Tagalog speaking Filipina girl and you went into the American education

[00:06:04] Mary G: system?

[00:06:04] Right? No, I did not know English. I think, um,as a child, you just had to catch on and then that was it. system, I just did what I did and played. And, you know, whoever wanted to play with me, I played with.

[00:06:17] Whether she knew I spoke English or not. Do you have

[00:06:22] kristen: memories of that first stretch of time

[00:06:26] Mary G: here in the U. S.? Yes, I do. Um, I rememberremember the preschool that I went to. I remember the grape juice and the cookies that they would give us during our breaks. And I remember the cleanup song. That we would sing.

[00:06:41] Seriously, it'smean, honestly, I think how I learned English is by singing. Because I sang very early on as a child, like I was doing karaoke, like my stepdad would, uh, buy, he bought like a karaoke machine and he liked my voice and so that's basically what I did.

[00:07:00] I sang karaoke. I loved, like, Disney and we grew up watching Disney and that's kind of how I learned.

[00:07:08] kristen: Do you know your

[00:07:10] Mary G: biological dad? Um, I do, but I met him once. It was such a weird encounter because I was working overnight as a CNA and I don't remember why I called him. I think he just felt like, I feel pressured to just call because someone told me, Oh, call him. This is his number, say hi.

[00:07:32] And I knew in the Philippines, at night is when it's day,um, I called him at night on a Facebook messenger call and it was so weird. He like answered and then I told him who I was, but it was such a, a stranger talking to a stranger conversation.

[00:07:52] I had no connection, like, I didn't feel truly connected. It was just like, hi, this is me. Someone, you know, they gave me your contact and I wanted to call you and say hi and we didn't really have like a very, a conversation that like stuck , you know what I mean, like it very felt on the surface. And then I haven't, I've never spoken with him after that again.

[00:08:18] And the next time I heard about him, he passed away.

[00:08:21] I'm sorry. No, it's okay. Thank you. Um, it happened during the COVID like times. It was like November 19. 2020 . So was your stepdad was

[00:08:37] kristen: fulfilling that role for you

[00:08:40] Mary G: when you were five? Yeah. And it was, I mean, imagine, Kirsten, like I am this, you know, young little Filipino girl who. Well, she's an American man who doesn't look like her and my mom told me to call him dad .

[00:08:56] And for the most part, because I was very obedient, I didn't say like, Oh no, I don't want to call him dad. Like I called him dad, but I didn't really like felt the connection first. Like I felt like it was just something I had to say for the long time. And I don't think I really understood our relationship and how, how much important it was, how important it was for me until I was like 18, that I realized how big of an impact it was in my life, um, in that way.

[00:09:32] And because I think because of that resistance, I, The authoritative part of him didn't sit well with me growing up. So, and it's just the way that he parented. Right. And I think, you know, that's just kind of how it was. Um, but until I was like 17, 18, I realized, wow, I wouldn't be in this country if it wasn't for him.

[00:09:59] Let's talk about a little bit more about

[00:10:02] kristen: those. How many years before you went back to the Philippines, what you got here when you were five?

[00:10:08] Mary G: When did you go back? second grade. So that would be me like when I was like seven, almost seven turning. Yeah. Yeah. Turning eight. Yeah. And what was your

[00:10:20] kristen: living situation during those

[00:10:23] Mary G: few years that you were here?

[00:10:25] um, we were living in an apartment with my mom, him and my sisters, and then my. Dad would travel now and then, and my mom would go with him. And so, we had our stepsisters step in and just watch

[00:10:41] now because they were like 16, like they were like high school, 16, 17. Maybe one of them was like in early 20s when they, because one of them already had a family when they were taking care of us with their kids.

[00:10:54] So, so they were older, much older than we were.

[00:11:00] kristen: And so if I could pull back for just a minute, I wanna share that it was here in our conversation that it dawned on me that Mary Grace and I might be talking about another subject in addition to or beyond the story of her experience as an immigrant. I mean, well, I think you're about to get the same sense I got from her.

[00:11:20] Mary G: I mean, it sounded to me like her mom and her stepdad, in spite of all they did do for Mary Grace, basically abandoned her and her sisters as very young children and for very long stretches of time. Do you remember having

[00:11:38] kristen: thoughts and feelings about that as a five

[00:11:41] Mary G: and six year old because of the way that I was raised in the Philippines, I've had to learn to adapt to people quickly and my environment quickly. So, For me, it was just kind of like same old, same old. Like, oh, okay, another person is here to take care of us, to take care of me, and however way that was. And it wasn't always a walk in the park, right?

[00:12:08] um, and so, We had good experiences with them and some not good experiences.

[00:12:15] kristen: And I started off with, I think, one of my aunts and I live with them. And I think in the span of a month or less, I would have to move. To another family member and everybody was very poor. Like nobody really had, like, one of them was more better off than the other.

[00:12:35] Mary G: And some of them were very, very poor, like barely making it. So when they couldn't take care of me, I would have to live with another family

[00:12:43] but, to be honest, I thought it was normal. Sure, it

[00:12:49] kristen: was all you knew. It was your normal. Was part of your normal being hungry?

[00:12:54] Mary G: Uh, yeah, I guess so. I mean, my normal was not to ask more than what I was given.

[00:13:00] What else was

[00:13:02] kristen: normal? Like, um,

[00:13:04] not

[00:13:05] Mary G: knowing where mom was? Oh yeah. So, throughout the time when I was living in the Philippines after America, my mom wasn't around.

[00:13:17] My grandma raised us, me and my holidays. Like she would come back for holidays, she would come back for me like a couple weeks, um, and then she would go off again.

[00:13:28] And so as a child child. It was just kind of like, Oh, mom's here.

[00:13:32] kristen: question, but did you feel, uh, like grandma was mom? Like grandma was who you bonded to as your, your maternal figure.

[00:13:40] And, and so who does mom sort of become in that scenario? who's

[00:13:44] Mary G: mom? Yeah. So it's funny because we call my grandma. So in the Philippines, Lola is grandma. Okay. And I didn't call my grandma Lola. I called her Nanay and Nanay is mom or mother in Tagalog. Wow. She was always Nanai, not just to me, but to everybody.

[00:14:04] So she was Nanai to everybody. And when my mom would be around, I didn't call her Nanai. And I don't think I've ever called her Nanai in my native tongue. I've always called her Ma or Mom. so weird. Now that I think about it, there's always this significance, like Uh, separation from that with her.

[00:14:25] Yeah. And, um, she was like, especially in the beginning, someone I didn't know at all, you know? like, if I got in trouble, I wasn't running behind her. I was running behind my grandma. Yeah,

[00:14:44] Sure. Just, she was my safety for a long time. And when my mom would come around, one of the memories that I had with her coming back, and I remember being very excited with her being back because you know, she's my mom...

[00:15:00] but at the time my mom was dealing with, um, her gambling addiction and she asked me to talk to my stepdad because we needed more money, she asked me to tell him that I was sick and that we just needed more money. And I was so confused by this ask because I was like, but I'm not sick.

[00:15:24] But she was like, just say it. Just do it. And that was my first lie. Like to me, that was my first lie.

[00:15:30] So, yeah, that's, I think ever since that experience, I've kind of felt like this need to protect myself from the emotional side of like latching onto her in that way.

[00:15:43] kristen: That's a lot to take on as a 7-year-old. Yeah. did your grandmother or anyone, not that it's an appropriate conversation to have with a 7-year-old either, but did anyone tell you like why mom wasn't around you? Un you understood she was traveling with your stepdad?

[00:16:00] Mary G: Yeah. Yep. That's basically, yeah, they just told me that she's, you know, with him.

[00:16:06] kristen: But your mom was only there very, very occasionally.

[00:16:11] Mary G: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[00:16:13] Like she kind of did my own thing and if she needed me, it was because it was time to eat. You know, like there wasn't areas of us to really like, have full on conversations as just a child and a mother trying to tell, trying to teach me a lesson. Right. So

[00:16:32] kristen: when you came here again, you were

[00:16:35] how old?

[00:16:36] Mary G: 11. 11?

[00:16:38] Mm-hmm.

[00:16:39] Mary G: Who came with you? My sisters. Me and my sisters. Rosen Mel. But not grandma? Not grandma. No, she wouldn't leave.

[00:16:49] kristen: Do you remember leaving her, like, do you remember leaving the house and going to the airport and, and coming here again? I do.

[00:16:57] Mary G: I really do. And it like puts an ache in my heart when I think about leaving home.

[00:17:05] I remember we were in this apartment,

[00:17:09] And we were in this room and I remember. Sitting with my grandma and hugging her and telling her how much I'll miss her. And then I remember going into a, a Jeep taxi And I sat in the car, window side, and I just looked out the window and I was just like, this is it.

[00:17:34] I don't know what I'm gonna feel when I get to the other side.

[00:17:37] I had no idea.

[00:17:40] And then you came,

[00:17:42] kristen: was that Nevada?

[00:17:44] Mm-hmm.

[00:17:45] Mary G: That was Nevada. Yeah. We came to Nevada, Lovelock, Nevada. Um, and we live with our, my mom's in-laws, And we lived in a trailer in the back. my parents, uh, slept in the house, but we, as children, we slept in the trailer because it, there was only two rooms, so they slept in that one room, and then we slept in the trailer.

[00:18:10] But we loved it. It was like a, it was like a.

[00:18:13] kristen: You know,

[00:18:13] Mary G: we

[00:18:14] kristen: played like around all the time

[00:18:15] Mary G: adventure.

[00:18:15] kristen: Mm-hmm. Like a camping adventure. And at that point were your mom and stepdad more present?

[00:18:24] Mary G: Yeah, absolutely. It, it felt like it was a lot more energy because he had a very family oriented family.

[00:18:34] Like they all loved my mom, um, and welcomed her in the family and they loved us. like they were all very welcoming. And I've always been grateful from that because one of the times when my mom kind of disappeared for a little bit because of her gambling,

[00:18:52] I had this other relative who lived in Winnemucca, And she took us in like gracefully and like didn't question it.

[00:18:59] And if she didn't, we would've, me and my sisters would've had to be in the foster care.

[00:19:04] kristen: What has that done to you in terms of your

[00:19:10] emotional self, in terms of the dialogue that happens around, the adult being the adult in your life and mm-hmm.

[00:19:19] Like did something. Yeah. Did, did something break inside you as, as a result of some of

[00:19:24] Mary G: this? Absolutely. I was angry. I was angry as a child. Um, at that time when that happened, I remember they came into my school, I was in middle school and they had me sit in this room and somebody came in and they started asking me about my mom.

[00:19:41] But I was reluctant to tell them the truth about my mom's whereabouts.

[00:19:46] And to be honest, I didn't know.

[00:19:48] But when they told this, the situation and when they've kind of explained to me, well, she has been around, like it's alarming that she's been gone for like almost a week. No supervision in our household. Right. We were three under minors in the household, but we were not really taken care of.

[00:20:07] So to me, in my mind I'm like, we're fine. Like, what are you talking about? Like, like, we're not starving at home. Yeah. So I don't know what you're talking about.

[00:20:16] and they were like, well, do you have any other relatives? And I think they called my uncle Roger, whichmy stepdad's brother. Um, and that's when they were like, yeah, we'll take them.

[00:20:29] And because we weren't adopted by my stepdad that they almost didn't let us go. Right, right. We were only there by marriage, but it wasn't like he did like adoption papers, but because of his marriage with her, they were, we were able to go. So I just remember being angry when I saw her.

[00:20:51] My mom came in the room and she was like crying, And I just remember like, I could not believe that you let this go on this long for them to almost separate me and my sisters like,

[00:21:07] mm.

[00:21:07] Mary G: That narrative kept laying in my mind and I was upset and I was angry at her for a good while.

[00:21:14] kristen: What were the stories you were being told in terms of why this had to be the way things were in your, in your life? Is there ever any explanation given to you, why, why you are, you know, not being cared for by your mother?

[00:21:31] Mary G: no. No. And I think the adults who did take care of us just kind of filled in, understood what we needed, understood that their presence alone was enough for us to feel cared for. And because of that, I always felt like, okay, this is okay.

[00:21:54] Like, I didn't question it after that.

[00:21:56] Like I vocally, I couldn't speak it out. And so at that age where I'm like, in my growing teens, it's like, then what's the, it's the same thing. Same deal. What's the point of speaking it out? And there's no one that's gonna do anything different for it. No one has the power to change that.

[00:22:15] kristen: Did you know then she had gambling addiction issues or that's just something you've come into knowledge as, as an adult?

[00:22:23] Mary G: when we were taken away, that's when I knew, that's when I knew that that's what it was.

[00:22:29] Um, she always, I, she always was secretive

[00:22:32] Right. And there's times where she would tell me things, but I, I couldn't, it would have to be hush hush, like, you know, don't tell your dad.

[00:22:42] Um, and so when I knew she had a problem with addiction, I think I just kind of accepted that that's just who she is.

[00:22:53] kristen: Did you talked about, you, you then went into a rebellion phase yourself as a teenager. Oh yeah. It was bad. Was it worse than you think the average teen or, or

[00:23:07] Mary G: I mean, no, I think everybody have snuck out, but I was really bad. Like I, I remember, um,

[00:23:15] so I was seeing somebody and he wanted to see me and it was nighttime and I was like, well, I guess I can sneak out. And so I did what everybody did where I like packed my bed with like pillowcases and pillows and just kind of make it look like someone's sleeping there. And I had a window and I snuck out that window.

[00:23:38] and then I remember, and then my phone rings and my sister's like, mom knows you're gone. And I ran. Across town, Chris, to tell you that I ran so fast for my life. I came home and my mom was like, whatcha doing? And she is like yelling at me and I was like, I just wanted to go out.

[00:24:07] And then I went back to my bed and after like maybe an hour, not even, I went back out. You went again? Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Like I didn't respect her. I think that part of me was like, kind of died a little bit. Like, oh, whatever you say doesn't matter.

[00:24:28] kristen: So was there ever a moment in the, in the journey where she stabilized at all?

[00:24:35] Mary G: I think when we came to Phoenix, there was a shift, like in my journey as a teen, I was going through a really rough patch and and I remember feeling like if I stay here, I would've gotten pregnant. I would've gotten pregnant. At some point I was around people that were probably not good for me. Mm-hmm. And, um, and the people that I thought were my friends or, you know, said were my friends, didn't really kept me from doing unsafe things. So I felt like when my mom said, you know, your dad wants us to move to Phoenix, what do you think?

[00:25:17] And at when she said that, I said, okay, let's go. Like, I had no hesitation. I was like, I want to start new somewhere. I just wanna get out of this really toxic environment right now for me.

[00:25:30] And I think it was partly the reason was for my dad wanted to monitor my mom a little bit more, um, So that was probably the, when we got to Phoenix and we bought a house here, that was probably the first time that I felt She's finally wanting to be a mom and be with us. But that was kind of short lived, I think by the time I was 16, that my mom and him decided to get a divorce. Um, and that was, that

[00:26:03] kristen: So you're an adult now?

[00:26:05] So, so tell me a little bit about how you unpack that as an adult or how you continue to be in conversation with that narrative as an adult.

[00:26:18] Mary G: I think I have to say that because of sports, it allowed me to see what teamwork means.

[00:26:28] What it means. Being supported by another person in a way that was like, I don't know. It makes you feel good. 'cause when I was as an athlete and I wasn't good at sports, keeping mind Christian, I was like that one person that had to put in 200% to just be good. And I remember playing basketball, wait though, and I was so bad.

[00:26:57] You mean,

[00:26:58] kristen: you mean you weren't necessarily natural at every sport you played, so you had to work hard? No, but

[00:27:05] Mary G: very hard. Did you

[00:27:05] kristen: wanna play or were you told you had to?

[00:27:08] Mary G: No, I wanted to play. You wanted to play I think. I think that was the only time that I chose to do something that I wanted to do when I got into sports.

[00:27:19] I don't think my stepdad saw the value in it. I don't think he saw my potential in it because they never went to a game and my mom barely went to a game and I don't think he ever saw me really truly be on the good parts of the games. Like, you know, it was in middle school when I started basketball and I.

[00:27:45] Volleyball. But I was really, I went to a camp when I was in eighth grade for volleyball right before freshman year. And I loved it. I loved it. We went to Lake Tahoe and I, it was just a group of girls just learning volleyball, just passing, doing drills. Like, it was amazing. And it gave me energy. It gave me like a purpose,

[00:28:10] you

[00:28:10] Mary G: know?

[00:28:11] And the fact that they were so accepting of me and they didn't, you know, it, it wasn't like they weren't gonna take anything from me that I, I, you know, nothing there, there wasn't something there that I knew that would've broken my heart unless, you know, if I didn't play or if I got hurt. I think when I got hurt is when my heart was broken.

[00:28:38] 'cause I couldn't play, but I had this drive to want to do better and be better and sports was the, the answer. And in my freshman year when I tried out for the volleyball team in Lovelock. I got into varsity. Yeah. As a freshman. Freshman year. As a freshman, I got into varsity.

[00:29:06] kristen: So, and your assessment that you weren't good is just, you didn't feel maybe like you were. Again, you had natural inclination, but you were clearly good. Whether that was through sheer hard work and discipline and effort or, or a natural talent that you're not comfortable talking about or comfortable saying.

[00:29:26] Was there,

[00:29:28] what did sports teach you about you that you didn't know before?

[00:29:34] Mary G: Honestly, it was the coaches They saw that I would just, I'm a go-getter and I'm an action person. Yeah. So if they told me to adjust something, I did it. If they told me to go guard someone, I did it. If they told me to play a position, I did, I didn't question it. I trusted them wholeheartedly and they pushed me. To literally to the farthest of what I thought I could achieve through drills, through conditioning, um, everything.

[00:30:08] And, and I remember it was like the way that they looked at me, made me feel important. They gave me a position of leadership and power. They, and my teammates supported that.

[00:30:27] And that's why I love volleyball so much is because I had control of my own abilities. I had control of that agility of mine. I had control of my speed and um, and my techniques. And so, and it was noticed. I was noticed, right? Like that was, you know, my shining time.

[00:30:49] And that was a lot of pressure at the same time, right?

[00:30:52] Like, that was my mentality and I think that's what made me strong. I think that's the discipline and the mentality of an athlete's kind of what helped me be where I am now.

[00:31:04] kristen: Do you think you also just had good instincts? Did did that help you develop instincts around adults? Like, uh, around who was trustworthy and who wasn't around? Who was?

[00:31:18] Mary G: Oh, definitely. I knew who to confide in and I knew who I couldn't, and I knew if it was safe to be around this person. I knew when I wasn't.

[00:31:32] kristen: So what was the impact of that? Tell me more about that. I.

[00:31:36] Mary G: Oh my goodness. Um, so,

[00:31:41] You know, just thinking back to all the choices I've made as a teen, they weren't good for me. And with the peers that I was around, I

[00:31:50] you know, we just wanted to be a part of a group. And

[00:31:54] I thought I could control that. I thought I could control the acceptance part or the, I thought I could like build a family around that, but I couldn't.

[00:32:06] So I had no boundaries. I had no boundaries as a teen. And that cost me a lot and. And then when I, in high school, I ended up just being in a relationship. I decided, you know,

[00:32:25] I kind of developed this sense of like, belonging with someone. Like I felt like I had to be with somebody, like a partner to have a family of some sort.

[00:32:38] Right. I realized that I would, if I had to choose between the boyfriend that I was with or my family who didn't approve, I would choose my boyfriend.

[00:32:49] because I didn't always, I couldn't always rely that my family was gonna be there. But I knew he would be, if I wanted him to be there, he would be there. I had control on that end, but I had no control of what my family would do to me, but I had control of what I could do in this relationship.

[00:33:10] kristen: You have a childhood story that is without boundary really. Mm-hmm. Appropriate boundary, appropriate framework

[00:33:22] and as you were talking, what I wanted to ask you really is like, who do you feel like raised you? Like But who gets the credit for that?

[00:33:31] Who raised you?

[00:33:33] Oh

[00:33:33] Mary G: man.

[00:33:35] I don't think I've ever thought about that. Wow. That's crazy. Um,

[00:33:42] kristen: I think I raised me. I think I did. And it makes so much sense because when someone tries to tell me what to do, I don't have a good feeling about it. Yeah.

[00:33:58] I, I do think you, you get credit. I do think you should give yourself credit

[00:34:04] Mary G: Yeah.

[00:34:05] kristen: It's like you took what you needed as a person who was raising herself and got it from where it was available.

[00:34:13] Mary G: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. That makes a lot of sense.

[00:34:17] kristen: What is being single

[00:34:20] teaching you that

[00:34:23] you weren't able to get from any, anyone who participated in the raising of you? Boundaries.

[00:34:32] Mary G: Boundaries. A hundred percent. Um, and boundaries in every level. Personal, professional, um, intimacy, friendships, family members didn't have any of it. As a single person, I, I'd had to identify what are my values and principles just for myself and not as a group or a whole.

[00:35:03] Right. Or, um, a couple. Um. I've had to learn how to detach myself from ideas that weren't mine. I've had to learn how to have a voice that was only mine. You know, I'm learning to build a relationship with myself and who to build a relationship with from that, like, from that root. And I've also, and I also learned that I wanted to know how to have a relationship with God.

[00:35:40] a good part of my childhood was always telling me who to appoint as God. And I had no idea why I didn't believe in the Catholic practice. I thought it was just, just didn't feel right with me. And that's how my grandma's a Roman, a Roman Catholic at heart. Like she's just like, that's her spiritual side.

[00:36:08] And I respected that and I, and I liked going to church with her, but when it came down to my choice, and I've been exposed to so many different churches, the Baptist Church, Christian Church, so many different ones, Jehovah, which is what my mom is now. Um, and none of them really resonated as something that I can trust.

[00:36:35] That I felt that I could trust myself in. And when I decided that, you know what, it's not about them bringing it to me. It's about me bringing myself to him and surrendering that part of my control. It's that if I really wanted a genuine connection with God, that I have to start talking to him. And that's the only way that I can get to know him.

[00:37:02] and I didn't realize that until I was alone that I needed to understand that relationship for myself or you know, or even the universe. I think I've kind of put them two as one, the universe in God as one, um, that they've always had my back.

[00:37:26] Hmm. You know,

[00:37:27] kristen: Mm.

[00:37:27] What is your relationship like with your mother now? Do you have one?

[00:37:34] Mary G: Yes. Um, she is definitely different now.

[00:37:40] She, I mean, she's a lot more present. she's chosen the Jehovah Path with her husband. Her husband's of Jehovah now, her new husband. And they both are very immersed in the Jehovah community. Um, but I have my feelings around that because I think because she's never really gone through that pathway of like, wanting to be better from the addiction side.

[00:38:14] To me it just feels like she kind of replaced it with that,

[00:38:20] kristen: What are other things that help you feel like you can change and you are on the path to changing an old story into a new story?

[00:38:33] Mary G: well, my approach is just to be very honest with myself first on where I am. When it came to money is just this idea of like trying not to be that, like living up to an expectation that people view me as, and not just strangers but my family. Right? Like, it's such a sensitive topic in our family that instead of money becoming a source of help or aid, that it's become a source of grudge and I don't know what the word is.

[00:39:10] Um, anxiety. Mm-hmm. It's a lot of anxiety around money. Yeah. but I also had to surrender that hold.

[00:39:19] Because I think I've, I've learned how to take advantage of people for money. Hmm. Because of, I've seen my mom do it, so I did it. I've learned how to navigate that part of myself, and I don't always feel good about it.

[00:39:33] I did it to family, I did it to friends. Um, I did it to my relationships. You know, I've, I've learned how to survive that way, and that is a part of me that I do feel ashamed about and I'm wanting to work on now.I want a better relationship with it, you know, and I don't wanna pass this down to my next generation. This is the cycle that my family in generations past generations from my grandma, her mom, and their mothers who suffered through the same chain reaction and nobody's tackled it in a sense of awareness and accepting that there's gotta change.

[00:40:20] This has to change somewhere.

[00:40:22] kristen: Mary Grace, can you articulate that just a little bit more specifically for me, because I think it's so important, and I think so many people are going to resonate with what you just said, but what was it specifically, what is it in the ancestral, the generational story of repetition around the women and the money?

[00:40:46] Mary G: So there's such a sense of entitlement with money. we used to be wealthy, I do believe that we were wealthy. My grandma and her mom, when they lived in Selma, they had this huge mention house that they had and they had land. And it belonged to my grandma's parents.

[00:41:14] But when my great-grandpa passed away and the house went under his wife's name, she sold the property.

[00:41:27] And my grandma had a sister and she, her sister inherited some part of, part of that money along with my great grandmama, but my grandma did not.

[00:41:40] kristen: That was taken. So they, they cut her out of the, her share her, her part of the mm-hmm. The family fortune.

[00:41:48] Mary G: Mm-hmm. Yep. And so ever since then, my grandma had to just make her way through everything.

[00:41:57] She is literally was just providing for herself, her family, that she's grown. And she, this woman was a superwoman 'cause she traveled all the time, but she had a habit of asking for money from friends. She's had a habit of, um, what we call Utang. Utang is like loan, like loan me some money, like loan me, you know, Ang and when someone has an ang with someone, you owe that person.

[00:42:31] My grandma did that a lot I remember.

[00:42:35] Mm-hmm.

[00:42:36] Mary G: And I learned that from her that it's okay to ask when you need help.

[00:42:44] kristen: So do you think there's sort of a tipping point with that mentality where it goes from, you know, an okay thing to do if you really, really need it into a mm-hmm. An expectation of, I I don't have to do anything else, I'll just keep asking other people for the For the loan, right? Mm-hmm. And you, you mentioned entitlement, so I think you, you are making a link between not only just the loss of the wealth that was there, but then the feeling of like, it's mine.

[00:43:13] I want it, I want it back. Give it to me.

[00:43:16] Mm-hmm.

[00:43:17] Mary G: Right.

[00:43:18] kristen: Um,

[00:43:19] so she had a, she had to look elsewhere for it, but maybe that, that they always say, like, especially for us as women, we should really, really be looking and asking our mothers what their mothers were like.

[00:43:31] Mm-hmm.

[00:43:32] And when

[00:43:32] kristen: our grandmothers are alive, what was your mother like? Because all of that is in our DNA. Whether we have any idea what the story really was or not, it's in our DNA And I think that's kind of what maybe you're putting your finger on is what came down in the water to you. Mm-hmm. And what pieces of it do you wanna undo?

[00:43:58] Mary G: Yep, exactly. Um,

[00:44:01] Why my mom's biggest, I guess her reasoning behind her gambling was always to provide for the family in the Philippines, because they're always asking, you know, and, and she feels also, I also believe that my mom feels guilty for somewhat abandoning my grandma.

[00:44:20] Um, because for so long my mom did what she had to do and I have a lot of respect for her for that.

[00:44:33] A part of me is always genuinely grateful for her for having that drive, you know, and I didn't see that anybody else in our family, none of her brothers and sisters graduated high school. And, um, and that's why she's kind of been the pillar for a lot of things from the family. And that's a big part of the pressure and of her, of her gambling.

[00:45:04] 'cause it was never enough, never enough, whatever money she had in her pocket, it wasn't enough to give back to the Philippines. It wasn't enough to take care of them. Every day is always a, a, you know, a, a tackle of challenges based on money. Where can I get it next? Where can I get it next? How can I double this?

[00:45:26] How can I do this? Right. That was the constant narrative that was playing in her head for a long time.

[00:45:32] kristen: I wanna, I wanna finish because I'm mindful of time with a question I've never asked anyone before, but I started today thinking we're going to get an immigration story, but what we got is so much different than that.

[00:45:49] Very rich. What is the core of your story? If you had to really, if you were forced to articulate, and I won't hold you to this of course, but what, what, what is the story that we heard today? It, what are you really in, in search of and, and, and, and who is at the core of you? Yes, it's an immigrant, but mm-hmm.

[00:46:12] It, it's something else too.

[00:46:15] Mary G: The core is, for me, it's just.

[00:46:20] to forgive all parts of myself. and

[00:46:26] I've been frustrated. There's this part of me that felt so frustrated in my process,

[00:46:34] There are versions of me that I didn't know how to accept.

[00:46:37] And I've spoke on this narrative of wanting to fix things that I couldn't, And then now that I'm here learning how to run a business, learning how to navigate who I am as an artist, learning how to navigate who I am as a woman, not just a woman, but a woman of my word, what I put out and owning that,

[00:47:01] and honestly, the core is, just me trying to find peace within myself

[00:47:07] with no judgment

[00:47:08] And some of it is still unknown. I think some of it is still very,

[00:47:14] I can't really put it in words because I'm probably at the most peaceful I've ever been in my life.

[00:47:22] Hmm.

[00:47:23] Mary G: and I think some of me is like thinking about what my future self would say to my now self or my future self is gonna say to my future daughter that I would have one day or son and what I don't wanna bring with me, that they would have to carry. You know, the, the biggest thing that I've l read in the book that I'm reading with, um, this book called It Didn't Start With You, was a Trauma Doesn't Die.

[00:47:57] And all that does, it just gets passed down to the next generation.

[00:48:03] But when you do unravel, when we get to learn about it and we get to know it, that it becomes your friend right. It becomes a part of you,

[00:48:13] he just doesn't go away.

[00:48:14] So I gotta learn to live with it. And that's a big part of the lesson that I'm learning now in my adulthood, in this part of my life, that it's not totally your villain. It's actually, it's a sense of part of who you are, way past you.

[00:48:33] Mm-hmm.

[00:48:34] Mary G: And when you learn how to understand it, you're better for it.

[00:48:39] And um.

[00:48:41] Oh God. There was something that I wanted to share with you, But I did go through a imaginative, what do we call it? Active imagination of seeing all of my younger self in each version of myself and giving myself a hug.

[00:48:57] Every single one. And every single one of them felt a different weight. And that's when I started to really love myself again. It's like, okay, now we get to walk together in this journey. We're gonna go through this together and it's gonna be okay.

[00:49:20] kristen: Yeah, it sounds to me like you've been good at that from the beginning in a way. You know, like knowing that things are gonna be okay and having magically somehow or not, maybe that's also part of your DNA Mary Grace is you're really strong. Mm-hmm. Thank you. You land on your feet and you seek the truth.

[00:49:45] So I just wanna thank you for sharing all these incredibly interesting. Challenging head scratching, you know, wonderful parts of yourself. And

[00:50:02] Mary G: yes,

[00:50:04] kristen: So thank you for that.

[00:50:06] Yeah. I wanna,

[00:50:08] kristen: I want to give you my, uh, 10 question, rapid, rapid fire questionnaire. Everybody always gets mad at me because they think it, it's not that easy to answer some of these, but I always say, don't think too hard. Just say the first thing that comes to your mind. The first question is a fill in the blank.

[00:50:27] Okay. Fill in, fill in the blank. Change requires blank courage. If you could go back in time and change one thing about your past, what would it be?

[00:50:42] Oh,

[00:50:43] kristen: see, my grandpa. What is one thing, big or small that you'd like to see change in the world?

[00:50:57] Mary G: The schooling systems. Especially in the Philippines.

[00:51:02] kristen: What is one thing, big or small that you hope never changes?

[00:51:07] Chocolate.

[00:51:15] What is one small or superficial thing about yourself that you'd like to change?

[00:51:24] Mary G: Oh, yes. Um, my not wanting to put my clothes away. Get that.

[00:51:34] kristen: I get that. What is one bad habit? And this might be the same question. What, what is one bad habit you'll probably never change?

[00:51:43] Mary G: Yeah, that's funny.

[00:51:46] Oh, probably being late. Okay.

[00:51:55] kristen: Knowing that we're, we all have aspects of each of these, are you primarily a change maker, a change seeker, or a change resistor?

[00:52:08] Ooh.

[00:52:10] kristen: I'm a change seeker. What does your next change look like? And feel free to be imaginative, fanciful, or aspirational in your answer.

[00:52:22] Mary G: My next change is creating a home for me, that's a big part of my goal right now and my circumstances.

[00:52:35] It's, uh, my living circumstances is what I wanna change.

[00:52:40] kristen: What are you most proud of in yourself, Mary Grace? Oh,

[00:52:47] Mary G: honestly, my artistry. My artistry brings a part of me out that very, it's authentic and it reaches people's hearts and it warms me.

[00:53:04] kristen: It's warming to be on the other side of your artistry and your humanity. And I'm very grateful that you made yourself available to talk to me today. Thank you.

[00:53:15] Mary G: Absolutely. Kristen, thank you so much. Thank you. Bye.

[00:53:21]  

[00:53:22] Mary Grace Li lives in Phoenix where she is an entrepreneur and an artist.