Like many of us, we've longed to play professional sports, and for Zac Hoffman, his dream was to be an NFL quarterback. However, he faced many hurdles on the path to his goal and realized that his plan was out of his reach. With this realization, he went through an identity crisis. What was he going to do now? He made the brave choice to ask a coach for help.

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From the personal work Zac began to do, he then discovered his purpose was to have an impact on people. So he moved into coaching for international teams and started investing in his players' lives. Zac is now focused on helping guide players who are either retiring or missed accomplishing their own professional sports dream. Join us as Zac shares how you can find your identity and purpose in life.

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Connect with Zac Hoffman

Websites:

https://swaleadership.onuniverse.com/

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Instagram: 

https://www.instagram.com/zachoff12/

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Facebook:

https://m.facebook.com/swaleadership/

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LinkedIn:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/zachary-paul-hoffman-7a523884/

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Connect with Mike Forrester

https://linktr.ee/hicoachmike

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LFTP_S2_E152_ZachHoffman_PodcastAudio.txt

Mike Forrester 0:02

Well, hello, and welcome back, my friend of this week, I have Zach Hoffman. Zach is a former US football player, he has also traveled been a football player and a coach internationally. I mean, the man has really gone through making the transformation as far as you know, being kind of like, you know, not fitting the stereotype, and yet excelling in that environment and then bringing that to bear into his full life. So I'm excited to bring today, Zack, how are you doing today, my friends?

Zach Hoffman 1:19

I'm great, Mike, really appreciate you taking the time to have me on your show. And really looking forward to talking to you more about everything you just just mentioned. Like,

Mike Forrester 1:27

yeah, dude. I mean, it's, it's been interesting already. And like our pre conversation just talking about, you know, like, the different culture, how people, you know, you're coming into an area that's different from your own, and how people have, you know, good intentions, but it's like, you have to be cognizant that you know, how people are approaching you. So I absolutely love your, your wide scope perspective, and your acceptance and just welcoming this and friendliness with people, when it's like you may not see eye to eye. So let's, let's start off if we could, Zach, what does today look like for you on the, on the personal side of life?

Unknown Speaker 2:14

Mike Forrester 3:27

Cool. And does that also, is there other stuff on the business side, as well? Or?

Unknown Speaker 3:35

Yeah, absolutely. So like I said, this athlete evolution Academy, I'm in the process of creating a course. And we're looking to, you know, have a whole, you know, kind of package where, you know, these athletes come in, they have a course we do mentorship, one on one trainings, group training, and things like this. So, I really believe that this Academy will do a lot of great things for a lot of people who are lost in life at the moment because, you know, their ultimate goal was achieved, and they're going through a lot of personal questioning. And so, a lot of things I went through, and that I kind of thought through and that transformed me, and I'm really looking forward to helping other people in my line of work, which was athletic, for sure. Well, I

Mike Forrester 4:24

think there's like this image of, of athletes, like, you know, they've made it they're successful. Is is that, like factual. Is that accurate? Or is there like a difference? Struggle, like you're talking about, you know, when you may not achieve your goal, like, not everybody can be a Heisman Trophy winner or, you know, whatever sport they're playing in like that. That top tier is there. Is there a difference between what, what people expect?

Unknown Speaker 4:54

Yeah, I think absolutely, because I think a lot of athletes resort to their comfort, which is their sport, which is training, which is, you know, nutrition, all things which we think we include in a healthy lifestyle. But what a lot of athletes struggle with is shifting that hard work. And that mentality that they had within their sport, and transferring that into other aspects of life, whether that be business, whether that be you know, writing a book, whether that be becoming, you know, an entrepreneur, because a lot, they struggle with understanding that, yeah, it's great to go to the gym, it's great to eat healthy, but those are all things you're comfortable with, you have to essentially recreate yourself, and use that same mindset, that same passion, and put it into this new endeavor that you have. Because like you said, there are a lot of athletes, 99% of athletes don't make it to the highest level. And when they retire, they don't have that stability, they don't have that financial security, and they need to rediscover themselves, they need to enter the real world, as employees or as business owners, or whatever that may be. And that same hard work, that same mindset that they took into athletics, while that will aid them for sure. It has to be adjusted into more structured, focused action. And for me, that's something that, you know, I see a lot of athletes now, they, you know, or athletes who are maybe trying to make it to that highest level, they're constantly posting pictures on Instagram have been training at the gym, working out showing off their bodies, all great things. But that's their comfort zone. That's what they're supposed to be doing. That's not exactly the holiday is really isn't their own life. So they're portraying the fact that are this outlook that, hey, I'm doing well, look, I'm fit, I'm in shape, but in reality, in their mind are thinking, Oh, my gosh, am I really my identity is it really this only the sport is is really my ultimate purpose. And so for me, that's a process I went through and helping myself. And now others understand that your sport is simply a platform for greater things and greater impact. But while you're playing the sport, it's often hard to see that because there's so focused on trying to get to the highest level, you don't see the reality of the situation, and I think is so much power, and there's so much value, and taking an objective approach to that, and saying, Hey, I'm pursuing this goal. But at the same time, I'm planning for my career, coast plane. And I think that's something that athletes have to do a better job of, and coaches have to do a better job of relaying this information to their young athletes, because that's the reality 99% of athletes will not make it professional. So what is next, and you have to really take that same passion you took into sport into your other aspect of life, because athletes have so many qualities that will do them very well in society, but it's just adjusting those qualities to fit their new endeavor.

Mike Forrester 7:59

So it almost sounds like it's like an identity crisis that's occurred, almost like, you know, for me when I was in corporate, and you know, you get laid off or fired, you're separated, downsize, whatever you want to call it, right, whatever situation occurs, is, once you're out of that role, then it's like, who am I? Because that's what you've been for a 10 plus hours a day for, you know, years, is it that same kind of situation like you're seeing? Okay,

Unknown Speaker 8:33

absolutely. I think it's an identity crisis, not the perfect word for what you just said, an identity crisis. Because you look, I'll give this example. Look at Tom Brady, you know, I'm not saying he's has an identity crisis, but he just he retired about five months ago, you know, he said, I want to spend more time with my family, I want to do this, and that this guy is everything in the world, you can ask for it. And he went back literally three months after his retirement. For me, that's a sign of, hey, this guy doesn't know what he doesn't know what to do after football. You know, he's had all this success, he identifies with his ability to throw a football and win games. And that's all fine and dandy when you're playing. But that doesn't last forever. It just takes one injury. It just takes one coach telling you, you're too slow. You're too old, you're not good enough or too small. And that's it. And so for me, this is just one small example of a guy who has it all who's at the top of the sports world, I guess you could say. But looking at it from that perspective, it's, for me, it's pretty clear to see he's having an identity crisis. He doesn't know he fears what comes next. And for him, it's okay, he's stable, he's secure financially. But, you know, a lot of athletes don't have that and they become depressed, they become anxious. And at the same time, they don't have that financial stability. They don't have that security. And they need that right mindset in order to pursue this next venture. And I think that's a Another problem a lot of athletes while you're playing your sport, a lot of things are, I don't want to say given to you, but you're not forced to kind of reach your mind into other realms, you know, you arrive at the stadium, you're closer in your locker, the food's on the table, the drinks are, you know, on the table, everything's prepared for you. But when you get in the real world, that's not how life works. And I feel like a lot of athletes struggle with that, too, you know, once their sports are done, and once that kind of save atmosphere goes away, they're left to figure out and pick up the pieces. And so that's why I think it's very important to, like I said before, take a proactive approach, rather than waiting and reacting. It's definitely a big problem. I noticed, and it's a problem that doesn't get talked enough about, but like you said before, with corporate, that's exactly what it is. It's an identity crisis. And it's something that definitely needs to be addressed. And, you know, Rod shed a more of a light on for sure.

So, I know, like when when downsizing occurred, and I was in corporate, you know, for it. There was a level of shame, like you had mentioned depression, how are you coaching these athletes? You know, through that to, to walk through those emotions, and then to find a purpose, a new identity? How are you? You know, bringing them to that realization that place?

Yeah, absolutely. So, for me, it's about understanding the why first. So, for me, it's going back to their childhood and helping them understand, alright, why do I have this mentality? Why was I drawn to the sport? Why did I want to become a professional? What's the psychology? What's the why behind that? Because I feel like if you just simply address the change immediately, without understanding the why you're going to resort back to that behavior. For example, I know a lot of guys who have, you know, retired from the sport. You know, in Europe, I'm talking, you know, at the age of, let's say, 29, they go out for two years, maybe they try coaching, and then they try to, then they go right back into try to playing at the age of 33, for pennies on the dollar in Europe. And for me, this is the problem, because they don't understand what made them want to achieve that high level. They just know, it's a part of who they are. And they think it is who they are. So for me, the first and most and most important thing is to understand the why behind, you know, the reason you're an athlete, because once you understand the why you can reshape that why into your next endeavor, whether that be you know, becoming, you know, an actor or starting your own business, becoming a coach become a consultant. For me, that's really important because our childhoods and the way we're raised, they shape who we are, as adults, I've come to realize that as well. And you have to really understand that that's a possibility. And that that's the reality. And for me, that's really where I start, because it's what a lot of athletes, they skip that step, they just want to jump into a new endeavor because they think they're capable of it, which maybe they are. But mentally, they don't understand that. There's, you have to build yourself up to that you can't just jump to being a successful business owner, you have to, like I said, do research, read books, talk to people get mentors, not in sports, but in business. And so for me, really taking those baby steps and understanding the why is so important in terms of my experiences and what I try to relate to others.

Well, I wanted to step back, you had talked about, like adversity and and I knew, like being, as you'd said, like, undersized, and stepping into the sports like, how did you kind of face that, that adversity, that challenge and rise to the occasion? Because I mean, it's like, whether it's sports, at home, at work, we're all going to face a challenge that we don't feel equipped for. How did you, you know, rise to the occasion and kind of set yourself in the right mindset to, to traverse that?

Yeah, that's a great question. Because what I've come to realize is, as a young person, I would shape you know, young people. I like to use the example of oftentimes, it's like clay, you know, we as adults have the ability to mold young people in a way whether it being good or bad. And, you know, I was unfortunately brought up an environment where my undersized me being, you know, short for the quarterback position was constantly brought up when I would make a mistake or when something would go wrong. And it was something that I could not change physically, I could not make myself taller. And that was so frustrating for me because my coach would I remember I remember clear as day in the film session, he would say, you know why that pass was knocked down. Um, it's because you're five foot nine. I'm like, well, coach, that's something I can't really change. So, you know, what, can you tell me something else can I change my arm angle, whatever that may be. And in terms of overcoming that, I think as I got older, the only the only way that I could truly overcome that was to understand that I was not born and put on this earth to play in the NFL. I had to accept that. And I had to really internalize that. And once I was able to accept that, then I could say, Okay, what's my next step from here? Because once that dream died, you know, at the age of 20, once I had that realization that, you know, my ultimate goal was simply not going to happen. From there, I could say, I could look at other options that were out there. And so for me, that's how, for me, the adversity came from that self realization that, hey, I was put on this earth for something greater than simply playing a sport and providing for myself and my family. And once I took that into account, I didn't know what I was going to do at that point, all I didn't know was that I had to make a drastic decision. And I had to make a tough decision, I had to stop my situation in college, I had to stop playing football, I had to go back home, and I had to kind of think everything over and form a new plan of action. And it's funny that football ended up being my outlet to go over Europe to Europe. But looking back on it, I start to realize that, hey, if I wouldn't have had that realization, and if I wouldn't have made that tough decision to embrace this comfort, I would have never found this outlet, I maybe would have just, you know, kind of accepted the fact that or maybe said, hey, I'll find a way to make the NFL or I'll find a way, I'll just finish school, and I'll see what happens from there. But I'm very confident I would have never had the experiences that I had, if I wouldn't have made that tough decision. But it all started from that internalization, that I'm much more and I'm capable of more than simply the sport. I've been playing my whole life. And once I realized that, I can make decisions. So

how did you like you're looking and going, I want to get to the NFL. Right? That's the dream. And then there's that tough decision of okay, as much as I may want this. I'm, I'm not seeing that before me. How do you like balance out? Yes, I'm going to persevere towards you know, my goal, or, Hey, this isn't a realistic goal. How did you differentiate that?

That's a great question, too. Because I feel like a lot of people, you know, while you see all these inspirational things, follow your dreams. Anything's possible. But, you know, we all know that's not really true. When we looked and done it, it comes down to who you are, every person is different. Every person has different capabilities. So for me, that came with just looking at my situation, I was a five foot nine, quarterback, playing in a division three school, who was a sophomore, got some playing time, but wasn't even a starter yet. So I've just kind of, I just kind of was real with myself. And I said, it's not that I'm, you know, putting myself down saying I'm not capable, I'm just looking at it from a lens of reality. And I, I guess I could say this is this is another motivation for me and was even stronger than my willingness to make it to the NFL, was my fear of living a life of me that impacted nobody. And so for me, that fear of not having an impact a greater impact on others, or leaving a legacy like, like, I like to say that fear was even stronger than my will to make it to the NFL. And I think I kind of knew that that impact wasn't going to come from playing at the highest level. So I had to find another way that were that impact would come. And I would say, at that point in my life impact looked like success, accolades, you know, being recognized. But as I went through, and as I went to Europe, and you know, kind of grew along the way, I realized that impact is something totally different. And legacy is something totally different. It's what you leave behind in terms of your leadership, in terms of your guidance in terms of your mentorship that others are, the next generation will take with them, hopefully, and carry it on to the next generation. So I guess you could say my whole ideology behind legacy and impact changed as I grew, but for me, going back, the biggest decision and the biggest fear I had was not having an impact living a life of mediocrity. And I think that fear outweighing my will to play in the NFL was what kind of pushes through to make that tough decision.

How did you come about changing your perspective on what a legacy that you want to leave? Looks like I mean, did you just wake up one day? And it was kind of like, hey, you know, here's the news. And here's my challenge and perspective, or was it? You know, something you did like exercise introspective work? I mean, like, what did that look like to make that shift?

Yeah. For me, it came from coaching, when I transferred from an athlete to coaching young people, and being an American football player in Europe, and kind of seeing that, you know, whether I liked it or not, young people were looking up to me, and the responsibility that came with that. And just seeing through time, you know, how I changed my coaching style and how I started to shift more towards a results based mindset on the field to more of an impact based mindset in terms of how do I help these kids succeed in the next phase of life? Because the reality is, most of these kids won't be a professional athlete either, if they want to great, and I hope they do, but if they don't, how do I help these kids under? How do I help these kids understand and see what I couldn't see at their age? And, for me, that's what kind of what I realized is, hey, I went, I was born John like these, like these kids were, how do I help them not go through what I went through? How do I help them maybe take a shortcut? How do I help them define themselves and see the potential they have in their life, outside of the sport. And for me, that's kind of what I realized that, hey, this is what I was, this is part of my journey. This is part of who I am, what I was meant to be, what I went through and what I didn't see, I can now help these young people along the way and see the reality of their situation.

So did you kind of go through a process of looking at the different values and kind of purpose that you could bring to people was that like, where you went, Hey, I do want to stand for this, I don't want to stand for that. Was that kind of an exercise as well, that kind of forged who you are, and how you how you changed as a coach?

Yes, I would say when I first started coaching, my biggest issue was I was coaching, like I was still playing, I was trying to be an athlete, who was still a code, and I understand I came to realize that you can't, you can't make plays for the, for your guys on the field, you have to, you know, teach it in a way that they will understand and transfer that information to the field. And I would say when I started to realize that, you know, it was more than just about the game itself, was when I had players come up to me and, you know, show me the report card, or tell me what was going on at home, or, you know, ask me advice on you know, whatever that may be just life advice, I started to realize that, you know, this was much more than simply me helping kids, you know, get better at a sport or again, this was being a mentor to those who maybe didn't have fathers who maybe you know, didn't have those positive adult mentors in their life. And, for me, that's where I guess my fulfillment was found. Because as an athlete, and um, you know, I'm sure you can relate, as, you know, with your role in corporate, it's an identity crisis, like you said, you know, we want once we have to change or once you know, we're forced to go in a different direction, that's tensive fulfillment that we have can get lost. And for me, as an athlete, the fulfillment i got was, you know, throwing touchdown passes, you know, making plays in the field. And then I started to realize that true fulfillment, was the ability to, you know, have a positive and be a positive influence in these young people's lives. And, like I said, it didn't happen in a way where I just, like you said, woke up and said, Okay, well, this is how I think now, it was me realizing through time, and kind of maturing, as a man that this was a bigger responsibility than simply a sport on the field. This was, I was in a position to be a mentor, and a father figure and a brother, a big brother, to people who maybe didn't have that opportunity. And I came to learn that there's nothing more fulfilling than that, to know that your leadership in your direction is bettering the life of a of a person. And so for me, that was, I guess that was my motivation, and why I really grew to love coaching because I worked with kids who weren't very athletic, who wouldn't, you know, they just could tell the sport of football wasn't for them. But I saw it as a situation that, okay, how can I teach something to this individual that will help them become a better student or will help them maybe have the confidence to pursue that career, or how do I help them find their traits? Find their strengths, and bring those out. And so for me, that was also a fun challenge that I enjoyed, and why I love working with the youth. Because it's, there's such a change that goes on during those, you know, from the age of 14 to 19. You know, your mindset, everything was changing. And just to be a part of that, and, you know, kind of really dig deep into these kids lives was really a growth experience for me. And I learned so much, just being in that situation, I learned so much about my past, I learned so much of the reason why I thought a certain way. And to know, I was also able to, you know, be a coach and an influence on these young people.

Now, were you also, I'm assuming you were getting coaching on how to be a better coach, you know, in football, were you also getting coaching or mentoring on how to, you know, level up your life and improve your your own life as you're helping these other guys? Is that something you were doing as well?

Absolutely, I would say there was a period, when I stopped playing that, I know, I was depressed, I didn't know what to do with my life. I was in a situation that I wasn't headed down a good path, I wasn't really seeing the potential that I thought I had myself, I kind of lost my way, I guess you could say, and I sought out a mentor or another coach within the club, I was coaching in Austria and Aaron Mitchell. And I just told him, I said, Coach, you know, I see how you interact with the kids, I see how, you know, when you enter a room, you have this persona about you. I want to know what that's all about. And, you know, God bless him, he took the time to meet with me once a week in a shopping mall in Austria. And we met once a week, and I just picked his brain asked him questions. Really, he told me what he thought my flaws were. And just having that mentor and that person to be honest and real with me, but at the same time, be vulnerable as a man, and helped me understand that what you're going through this identity crisis, this is something that I went through this is this is something you don't have to hide your feelings, your emotions. And that's so that was so vital to me in my life. And I think without that experience, I don't want to say I wouldn't have ever, you know, recovered and got better. But it would have definitely delayed the progress that I made. But it started from being vulnerable. It started from understanding that I don't have all the answers, I'm going through this, who do I seek out? Who do I trust that I know, you know, is living a life that I'm striving for. And so for me, that was a huge, huge, it's helpful, and I'm so thankful for him today. And I consider him you know, my mentor for life. Actually.

That's awesome. So, I knew, as I was growing up, that this was the vast majority of my life, you know, very much like a victim mindset, being depressed, and, you know, not knowing my true purpose, therefore not really fulfilling my identity. How did you get yourself from the place of being depressed to being open for the, for this coach to invest in you? And, you know, just be vulnerable? Like, you talked about? How did you get to that place? Where is, you know, I know, for myself, and, and my, some of my clients, like, they're just like, nope, not there. You know, like, that's the journey we've gone? How did you prepare yourself to be open and vulnerable to that?

Another great question. I think, unfortunately, for myself, I waited too long, because I think I had so much built up. And I had this mentality that I could, you know, growing up in sports to always be tough, physically, mentally, don't show weakness. And I think there came a point where when I didn't have that outlet of sports and the plane, you know, kind of get my problems out. And, you know, kind of take that out on the field. I was at a point of desperation, I guess you could say, where I, I just didn't have any answers. I just didn't have any answers. And, you know, I definitely waited too long. And I think I was raised in a way that, you know, probably didn't, you know, enact that behavior within me. I was raised in a tough way, you know, to be a man, I guess you could say, and I guess I kind of grew up and learned that that's just not reality. That, you know, we as humans, we all have the same emotions. It's a genderless emotion. And I think, and I know that's part of my purpose now to really help young young athletes and not just athletes, people in general, take a proactive approach to their mental health. Understand that while you may feel great, now, there's going to come a time in your life where you're going to face adversity, and you know, That's subconscious mind and those things that happen in your past, you know, they can come out later in your life. And I think just making that awareness that you have to be proactive, regardless of, you know, the state you're in, you know, having healthy habits will go a long way into avoiding that desperate situation that I found myself in, where I just was so desperate that I needed help. And I knew it. And you know, I went to that person, but I think there are ways to do it better and do it more effective. But it all starts with being proactive in your agenda.

So what is a proactive approach look like? Let's say like, right now, sun is shining, I'm doing fantastic, you know, top of the world kind of thing. What is that proactive approach that I should be taking? Now for, you know, when the clouds move in, and I hit the struggle or life just happens? Is it, you know, Will? What, what does that investment now look like in a proactive approach?

Yeah, for me, for sure. It sounds simple. But I, I realized that just being grateful for, like you said, be grateful for the sunshine, understanding that you're valued, and you have worth, and it's a miracle that you're alive and on this earth. It's something we take for granted every day. For those of us who are blessed to live, you know, the life and when you're really being grateful, it's something that I didn't have, as a young person, I was always kind of pessimistic, looking down on my flaws, focusing on those flaws. And for me, there's so much power and practicing, you know, self affirmation, and really recognizing the simplicity of life, recognizing them and calling them out, under understanding that you are blessed, and that we were blessed to be on this earth and see the sunshine, were small steps that I didn't take as a young person, but I kind of learned throughout my life and understanding the importance of the family, and for those of us who have a family to be thankful for that as well. And to hold that close to us. And I can honestly say now, and I'm very grateful for this, because it's the one point I wasn't like this, but through this mentorship and this transformation I went through, I'm 30 years old right now. And I can honestly look back in my experiences with a smile and say, If my life were to be taken tomorrow, I'm very blessed and thankful for everything I've got to experience. And so for me, that's the ultimate form of bliss, when you can kind of have that outlook, and be at the same time, looking forward to the future. And you know, have goals and aspirations habits that are taking you towards that next phase of life, but to also look back with a smile, and be grateful for every day that you've had, and understand that all the adversities you went through, are shaped have shaped the person you are today. So it sounds very simple. But I think just really recognizing gratitude will go a long way. And that's one way, you know, many, of course, to kind of take that proactive approach. And I tried to do that I tried to do when I was coaching, I would show up in practice, like, Hey, guys, it's a beautiful day today, if we lose what what's the worst that can happen? We go to school the next day and you live your life. You know, it's just a game. Be thankful, you know, you get to wake up and play a sport with your friends. Little things like this, that I didn't realize that I tried to you know, kind of preach today.

Cool. Yeah, gratitude is important. And, I mean, having the foundation of, of a morning habit. Setting gratitude is amazing. But I think part of it is, is also carrying it throughout the day, like you're talking about going and seeing, you know, those that you're coaching or those that you work with your family, you know, just being grateful throughout the day, because if for if we're grateful in the morning and grumpy in the afternoon and evening, it's not gonna weigh out all the same. So, yeah. What would you say is another, like action? If you're like, Hey, Mike, I want you to take this proactive plan. What's another thing you might suggest to me as far as you know, setting myself in a healthy direction?

Absolutely. This may sound kind of unconventional, but maybe you've had similar experience. For me, it's interaction and positive interaction with strangers. For me, if I go to a coffee shop, and I start up a conversation with the cashier, or the person next to me, just make a simple compliment. That makes me feel good inside when I leave that situation. You know, I feel like wow, hey, I didn't expect that interaction. But you know, I was able to relate to that person and give them some gratitude and some encouragement for the day, you know, and they also they gave me that as well. So I noticed that those small interactions that we often let go, you know, we let pacify because, you know, we're all busy. You know, oftentimes, when we're on the move, we're not thinking about this. But there are so many opportunities and real everyday situations to, you know, compliment someone or, you know, relate to someone or on a deeper level. And I've really come to learn that those small interactions, even if I'm feeling down, or, you know, down and out for a minute, if I'm able to have a positive interaction with a stranger, it gives me a, you know, gets, I don't want to say it, you know, it's a miracle, but it gets me back on the right track, you know, in terms of, okay, well, that was a positive part of my day, now I can attack the next base in a better manner than I maybe would have not. So for me, I've just been, it's it was a surprise to me, because I didn't think that it would have the power that it has on my life. But just simple everyday interactions, positive ones, and encouragement can go a long way, for sure.

Gotcha. When you were, you know, fighting the depression and the identity, you know, transit transition. Were, were those kind of interactions, something that you experienced during that time? Or was that pretty? Just kind of like, it didn't exist at that point? Yeah.

Well, that's, I think I, I didn't realize it was happening at the time. But it definitely was, for example, the interaction with my coach, like I told you, the mentor was having if I was feeling down, that hour or half hour with him, would give me a boost in my mood, and help me pursue the next portion of my day, in a more effective manner. And for a lot of people that therapy as well talk therapy, or, you know, just expressing what you're feeling and having that comfort and that space to feel safe. Or whether that be a friend or a mentor therapist. I feel like that's a good place to start. But then, like you mentioned before, how do you carry that into other aspects of your day. And for me, that's just kind of seeing those opportunities as they come. You know, as you go through your day, you kind of you kind of learn how to realize those opportunities and wait when they're when when they are before you and but for me, it started for sure, with that time with my coach a, I call him just being with him, and you know, getting that boost, and that redirection kind of helped me realize the power that that could entail.

Yeah, there's definitely it's almost like a, like, your eyes open. And the way you perceive things is different. You know, being depressed and you know, not not knowing who you are, or, you know, what your purpose is, versus like you're talking about now where you are, and you're like, This is my clear identity. This is where I'm going. So, dude, Zack, totally love it. very appreciative of you sharing your story and your perspective. How can people reach out and connect with you outside of the podcast here?

Sure. So I wouldn't say the easiest way to connect with me is on Instagram. My handle is at GHC H O FF, one, two, Zach off 12. But you can also on my website. It's going under some construction now but you can find my email on there. It's swell leadership.on The universe.com You can find my email other podcasts I've done. You know, things I talked about my leadership concepts, my book everything on there as well.

Awesome. Sack. I appreciate it. Thank you very much, my friend.

Thank you, Mike. Appreciate you.