Jack O'Neill: Sobriety, Songwriting, and the Journey of Jackopierce

In this episode of 'Curious Goldfish,' host Jason English interviews Jack O'Neill of the iconic acoustic rock duo Jackopierce. Jack talks about his personal journey to sobriety, his military upbringing, and his 35-year friendship with Cary Pierce, whom he met at SMU. He opens up about quitting his day job to fully embrace his identity as a songwriter and artist. Jack discusses the songwriting process for new singles like 'Airport Bars and Air Guitars,' 'Damn Good Son,' and 'Weight of the World,' and shares the challenges faced in the music industry. His conversation includes the dynamics of his partnership with Cary, memorable recording experiences with T Bone Burnett, and the importance of curiosity in life. Jack also reflects on his acting career and the improvisational nature of performances. The episode ends with an acoustic performance, embodying the essence of his musical journey and lifelong friendship.

00:00 A Life-Changing Decision

01:06 Welcome to Curious Goldfish

01:48 The Story of Jack O'Neill

02:33 Jackopierce: The Dynamic Duo

03:47 Jack's Solo Journey

04:55 A Personal Connection

06:01 Interview with Jack O'Neill

06:22 Life in New York City

08:16 The Music Industry Today

11:09 Creating New Music

15:49 The Impact of Streaming

24:17 The Art of Songwriting

25:22 Diving into the Lyrics

40:47 A Military Family's Influence

48:47 Introducing Gina: The Creative Process

49:00 Live Show Reflections and Inspirations

49:54 The Algorithm of Creativity

51:55 Weight of the World: Song Insights

53:11 Turning Scenes into Songs

56:08 Exploring Relationships and Life Lessons

01:03:02 Curious Goldfish: Podcast Insights

01:11:28 The Journey of Jackopierce

01:19:38 The Mexican Tune: Origins and Evolution

01:25:31 Concluding Thoughts and Performances

Jack O'Neill: So I resigned from my job

2

and quit

3

drinking.

4

And basically

5

except for

6

one little moment, have never looked back.

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And It was during that period where I,

8

for the first time in my life,

9

uh,

10

and thanks to a good

friend of mine who was

11

was helping me get sober, that I was like,

you know what, I'm a I'm a songwriter.

12

That's what I, that's really what I am.

13

I'm just going to

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admit, I'm an artist,

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and this is what I do.

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And, I can try to pretend like

that's not a thing in my life, but

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the reality is it's

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totally a thing in my life.

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And kind

20

of once I gave that up, I gave

up drinking, I gave up this

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idea of

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of having some kind of normal

23

nine to five life, and was like, I,

I'm going to sit down and write songs,

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whether I want to or not, I might as well.

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embrace

26

it and enjoy it.

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And, and, um, honestly, now

I can't stop writing songs.

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Jason English (Host): Welcome to

curious goldfish, a podcast community

29

where music and curiosity come together

through interesting conversations

30

with the music makers of our world.

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I'm your host, Jason English.

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You can find curious goldfish and all the

major podcast and social media platforms.

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And of course, we have all of

our content on our website.

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Curious goldfish.

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com.

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Welcome into the mind of Mr.

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John Bernard O'Neill III.

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Okay,

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we will do this for anybody who's

spent, uh, Tuesday evenings at

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Mimi's in Greenville, Lebanon.

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This is so many years ago.

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Picture this deep dust in wild grass,

scorched now by the sun of July.

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The strong song current of the

little bighorn river running slow.

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Winding quietly through the valley

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Jason English (Host): Jack O'Neill,

the first half of the Acoustic Rock

46

Band, Jack O'Pierce, alongside music

partner Carrie Pierce, has always been

47

the mysterious darker of the duo, who

I've listened to for more than 30 years.

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Cary Pierce always seemed to be the

front man, often more expressive

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in his demeanor and body language,

as the two crisscrossed the country

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for the better part of four decades.

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That clip that just played is from

a song called Mexican Tune from

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the album Live From The Americas.

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Jack is the one narrating a story about

General George Custer at Little Bighorn,

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completely off the cuff and in real time.

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A terrific example of improvisational

creativity that became a staple of

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their live shows over the course

of Jack O'Pierce's early years.

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In this episode, Jack and I talk about

a bunch of topics, many of which I've

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wanted to ask him for so, so long.

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So yes, I ask him about the origins

of Mexican tune, along with some other

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tidbits about his 35 year partnership

with Cary, including whether they

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share a friendship and relationship

similar to Ted Lasso and Coach Beard.

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From the TV show, Ted Lasso.

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It's part of the conversation

that I think the most fanatical

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Jackopierce fans will surely enjoy.

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But this episode is mostly about

Jack and why he's deciding to put

66

together a full solo album in the

near future called North star.

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He's already started to release

some songs that will be included.

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And we dig into a few of

those in interesting detail.

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Jack has had an incredibly

unique life and career.

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And the songs he's pinned reflect many

different aspects of being the son of a

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military man and being a musician and part

time actor who landed in New York City.

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Once upon a time, the songs also

reflect struggle and triumph over

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alcoholism and questions that many

artists ask themselves about whether the

74

struggle and hardship is all worth it.

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Good news for us.

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Jack has concluded it is worth it and

he's focused on what he's destined to be.

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Which is an artist and a songwriter.

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But if you follow Jackopierce

for as long as I have, you

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knew that was always the case.

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Jack penned one of my favorite

songs when he and Cary were

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studying at SMU in the late 1980s.

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It's called My Time and it has the

sentiment and wisdom of a man three

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times the age of a college student.

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And it's helped me get through some

of my most difficult periods in life.

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Three years ago, in the midst of a

divorce following a 25 year marriage to

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the person who actually introduced me to

Jaco Pierce, I found myself on Interstate

87

70 in the middle of Kansas, headed

east to Atlanta from Boulder, Colorado,

88

contemplating the next chapter of my life.

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And during that drive, which was mixed

with gratefulness, anger, frustration,

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and sadness, I started to ponder the

future, not knowing what life would be

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like with kids out of the house, and a

long relationship in the rearview mirror.

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Jack reminded me in that song that

quote, dreams come clean over miles

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of road and that my future would

start to clarify itself with every

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passing billboard and rest stop.

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I'm grateful to speak with Jack on

this episode, and I'm especially

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grateful that he sings my time nearly

four decades after he wrote it.

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With his relationship with Cary as

strong as ever, and a new outlook on

98

life that's not clouded by the damaging

effects of drinking, You can say that

99

today, in 2024, it is Jack's time.

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From New York City, here's Jack O'Neill.

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Let's dive in.

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Jack O'Neill.

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Thank you so much for joining.

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How are you?

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Jack O'Neill: I'm great, man.

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Thanks for having me.

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It's a real pleasure.

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Jason English (Host): All right.

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Well, uh, you're, are you dialing in

from your house in, uh, in New York?

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Is that right?

111

Jack O'Neill: Yeah, I'm

in, I'm in my studio

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in New York City, also

known as my kids room.

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Uh, I

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kinda, I kinda co opted it,

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but, um, yep.

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I'm in New York City.

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We're having a perfect

New York City afternoon

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and, um,

119

summertime.

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Um,

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Jason English (Host): Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Summertime.

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So we're Right around the 4th of July

125

I guess So there's a lot of things

that we're gonna get to hopefully

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in the conversation First off.

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I just want to say I don't want

to come across as too much as a

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fanboy, but This conversation is one.

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I've wanted to have for literally 30

years And I and I say that with all

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Authenticity and like genuineness and

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Jack O'Neill: I appreciate

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that.

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Jason English (Host): everybody

that listens to music, right.

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They, if they can make a soundtrack

of their life, you know, there's

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certain songs or certain artists

that would be part of that.

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And Jack O'Neill, which is half of

Jack O'Pierce, a longtime duo band, you

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know, uh, from way back when, uh, you

guys would be side A of my soundtrack.

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So, or on

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Jack O'Neill: That's amazing.

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Jason English (Host): So I just,

I just thank you for your time

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and just thank you for your music.

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Jack O'Neill: Well,

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thank you very

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much.

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That was very

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kind and warm.

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Jason English (Host): I

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Jack O'Neill: Um, you know, you

spend a lot of I spent, what's that?

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Jason English (Host): No,

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Jack O'Neill: No, no.

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I mean, I spend a lot of time in

this room writing songs, you know.

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And there are definitely

days where you're like, Why?

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Why am I beating my

head against this wall?

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And, uh,

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you know, somebody

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Really

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appreciates it, you know.

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it's a, It's good to know.

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It feels good.

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So thank you for that.

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Jason English (Host): No, you're welcome.

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And you

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Jack O'Neill: for inviting me on too.

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Jason English (Host): Yeah,

no, it's it's it's my pleasure.

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And you know, I I'm no I know I'm not

the only one that would want to tell

166

you that so I Think I'm probably saying

that on behalf of a lot of people

167

that again are probably late 40s early

mid 50s at this point So anyway, so I

168

wanted to lead with that and then yeah,

we have a lot to get to including You

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know the Jack O'Pears stuff and I in

but I want to focus on your um The solo

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album that you're working on or have

worked on and are slowly releasing.

171

But like this summer, it seems like

you and Cary, again, Cary Pierce of

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Jacko Pierce, you guys are traveling

and touring just as much as ever.

173

Um, I think you did a few shows

late spring and I think have more

174

planned, I guess it feels like

the last couple of years you guys

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have been on the road quite a bit.

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Is that, well that you think that'll

continue for the foreseeable future?

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Yeah,

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Jack O'Neill: the busiest

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spring we've had in a long time.

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I mean, obviously, COVID

kind of threw everything

181

out of kilter, but,

182

you know, we both, we're both dads.

183

Our kids are getting older and

184

we don't feel the need

185

to be around as much,

186

Um, so we're,

187

we're definitely taking advantage of,

188

of,

189

of

190

getting

191

back out on the road a little bit more.

192

Uh, this summer.

193

is not

194

crazy, but we're going to Montana in July.

195

We're going to actually play

with Toad the Wet Sprocket.

196

In uh, Kalispell

197

and Great Falls.

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And that's going to be,

199

that's going to

200

be awesome.

201

You know, we know,

202

we kind of

203

know those guys.

204

We've known some, you know, we've

205

played with Glenn before.

206

We've played

207

with Toad before.

208

It's been a long time, but um,

209

you know,

210

it's, Montana is one of the,

211

one of the states I've never been to, so.

212

you know, There's always a little

bit of that where you're like.

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Oh,

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let's get

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out and

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see

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somewhere we've never seen and

play a couple of shows and you

218

Just kind of awesome.

219

So we'll do that and then I know in august

220

we

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are going

222

man, I

223

think we're going out to like spokane

washington for the first time really cool

224

uh,

225

venue out there

226

I'd have to

227

look at the calendar, but but yeah,

228

the point is that

229

We seem to be busier I mean,

this first half of this year, I

230

think, is the busiest first half

we've had in a really long time.

231

Jason English (Host): this year,

232

Jack O'Neill: it going.

233

Jason English (Host): think,

is the busiest first half

234

we've had in a really long

235

Jack O'Neill: Oh, yeah,

236

Jason English (Host):

So, we'll keep it going.

237

Well,

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Jack O'Neill: Well,

apparently you are too.

239

Sweet water to Atlanta.

240

That's a long way.

241

Jason English (Host): it just worked out.

242

It worked out with my work and,

and, and, and those things.

243

So, um, awesome.

244

So yeah.

245

So part of your year obviously

is the new solo album.

246

You did some solo work probably, I don't

know how long ago, 15, 18 years ago.

247

I think you, didn't you

release some solo songs a

248

while

249

Jack O'Neill: Yeah, so I, I, Man, I,

250

did a solo record.

251

It's 20 years.

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is it long?

253

Yeah.

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And I recorded it in New

York with Doug Derryberry,

255

who's a great

256

guitarist.

257

uh,

258

instrumentalist, producer, engineer.

259

Uh,

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he's

261

an

262

amazing dude, an old

friend, killer resume.

263

And I recorded that in New York,

but I recorded that back when, you

264

know, you produced a physical CD.

265

You know, it was kind of, I think,

you know, Napster was kind of a thing.

266

but

267

streaming wasn't on the map yet.

268

And

269

so, you know, back then you'd

270

you'd make a record,

271

create

272

physical copies, sell it on the road.

273

You know,

274

we'd sell them at Jackopierce shows.

275

We'd sell Jackopierce

CDs, Cary Pierce solo CDs,

276

my

277

solo CD.

278

And

279

then, you know, over the years

it kind of just, it went away.

280

You know, like I kind of

281

stopped

282

thinking about it.

283

I got pretty involved with

284

my

285

day to day life in New York City.

286

And,

287

um,

288

and it was

289

really sometime during COVID I

started doing a lot of stage it.

290

from my apartment,

291

uh, which is that,

292

you know, an

293

online platform people can watch you

play basically from your living room.

294

And I started playing a

lot of those old songs,

295

and I

296

thought, I should

297

find out how that record got

on all the streaming platforms.

298

Cause I really don't know.

299

know.

300

I I had no idea.

301

idea.

302

So I literally went to Spotify

303

and was like,

304

You know got a message claim

your artist page, you know

305

for

306

jack o'neill and i'm thinking well,

307

I mean it's been up there for

I don't know eight 10 years.

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and I haven't even claimed the page.

309

I felt I felt pretty pathetic about it.

310

So

311

I

312

decided to go in the studio

and rerecord that album.

313

And

314

as I started to move forward on that

process, I thought that's actually

315

I don't need to do that at all

316

Could

317

just re release the songs as is

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But I did re record a couple of

them, Um, which then turned into

319

this

320

batch of solo songs that

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Jason English (Host): the album

is yet to really kind of fully be

322

released, but it's called North star.

323

Is that right?

324

Yeah.

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Jack O'Neill: I haven't

finished that song, North Star.

326

There's a couple songs unfinished.

327

And, And, you know, I was just

kind of thinking, you know, like,

328

know, like,

329

streaming is such a different ballgame

from, from when Cary and I first started.

330

And it's

331

kind of a different approach, so

332

I just thought, you know,

I'll just crack singles.

333

you know,

334

throw,

335

throw a song out there

336

with

337

some kind of consistency

and see what happens.

338

I mean

339

I've been writing a lot

340

and it's just

341

really so much more accessible to

342

to

343

to

344

To release music,

345

you know through the

streaming platforms, So

346

I haven't really finished the album.

347

I kind of was like i'll start releasing

these singles and i'll see what happens

348

So i'm always kind of doing that.

349

Like, let's just see what happens

350

happens

351

Now, my,

352

my

353

idea is that when I

354

finish that final song

355

song

356

Maybe i'll compile it into

357

an album, But the truth

is, I don't think anybody's

358

anybody's finding a Pining

away for an album for me.

359

You know what I mean?

360

Like, you know what I mean?

361

Like

362

Jason English (Host):

Well, I, no, just kidding.

363

Yeah, no, I know what you mean.

364

So

365

are those, are the, so the songs that

you're releasing or will continue

366

to release, are any of them, is

it a mix of like new songs, new

367

songs in like rerecorded versions

of the, of the one 20 years ago, So

368

Jack O'Neill: From the

369

album from 20

370

years ago

371

and the rest of them are all new, like

372

written within the year or two

373

two.

374

So,

375

You know, there's a

376

lot going on there.

377

You know, for years, I just really

didn't, I wasn't writing a lot.

378

I was writing

379

very, very little.

380

and

381

the

382

truth is,

383

I

384

you know, I got sober

about five and a half,

385

six years ago.

386

and Kind of the game

changed for me personally.

387

and now, now I'm writing a lot more,

388

more.

389

And, And, I feel really good about it.

390

Versus whatever it was before that.

391

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

392

No, that's great.

393

You mentioned, like,

streaming's changed everything.

394

I heard the money's really good

right now, uh, for streaming.

395

Jack O'Neill: it's amazing.

396

I mean,

397

If you want to make a lot of money,

398

get into the

399

music.

400

business.

401

Jason English (Host): Literally,

like right before we started this,

402

I was scrolling through, you know,

my Instagram feed or whatever.

403

And the, and an artist, another artist was

like, Hey, we had a great show last night.

404

You know, I sold 500 of merch and

just a reminder, what does that trad

405

translate to streams on Spotify?

406

And he, he, he did the calculation.

407

It's like three and a half

million streams is basically.

408

You know, 12 shirts or however

many shirts he sold last night.

409

So he's like, please

continue to buy the shirts.

410

Cause the streaming thing is,

it's, it's too much to overcome.

411

It's crazy.

412

It's crazy how the math works.

413

I don't understand it.

414

Jack O'Neill: yeah, the

415

math,

416

the math is terrible

417

in

418

terms of, you know, how much

artists get paid for stream.

419

And,

420

paid per

421

stream.

422

you can, it's,

423

it's terrible.

424

Uh,

425

you know, I try to look at the

positive side of it, which is.

426

As an

427

independent artist,

428

you know, it is a

429

great way to try to find people

who might like your music.

430

You know

431

I don't know how, there's

like, I don't know,

432

400 million

433

Spotify

434

users.

435

I'm like, look, if I can't find

436

15 of those people that might

like this music, maybe, maybe

437

I shouldn't be making music.

438

But, um, yeah, the, the

439

numbers, Spotify are

440

terrible.

441

And, You know, I think I just saw

that the Spotify CEO, was it the spot?

442

I don't want to make up stuff.

443

Spotify CEO said something like,

uh, Cost zero to create content.

444

to

445

create

446

You know, it's

447

like, that's

448

it's a terrible way to look

at what we're all doing here.

449

I mean, We're all content creators

in your eyes, which is whatever.

450

Um, but I mean, it's,

451

you know, literally

blood, sweat, and tears.

452

Self financing everything.

453

I mean, an independent artist now.

454

is a,

455

a, you

456

a CEO, chief marketing officer,

social media guru, uh, you know,

457

you

458

you wear a million different hats.

459

Uh, The idea that

460

it's

461

easy to create a song and put

it on the platform might be true

462

from a technical aspect, but,

463

you know, all the work that goes in into,

you know, creating, being an artist.

464

Jason English (Host): Um, well, so for the

465

fans of yours, and then, you

know, obviously Jackopierce.

466

You know, I hate to like dumb this

down, but it's the best way to

467

support you guys, obviously going

to shows and buying merchandise.

468

Like, is that, is that the best way

to, you know, for those of you, for

469

those of us that are going to watch

this, hopefully that love you all.

470

We want to support you and keep you going.

471

Is that, does it just come down

to like, it's easy as that?

472

Or are there other things

that we could, we could be

473

doing?

474

Jack O'Neill: I mean, it's, it is,

yeah, it is certainly the best,

475

the best way

476

to support bands is if, if they're out

touring to, to go out and see them.

477

live for sure.

478

Um, You know, I think about young

479

artists that are starting now and

480

you know, maybe

481

they're, they're

482

doing amazing

483

things Tik Tok.

484

or

485

Instagram or even streaming, but

486

the

487

challenge is, you know, still

getting humans in the room.

488

You know, when they go,

you know, go on the road.

489

So I, I don't know.

490

it, It's kind of a heartbreaker because

a lot of young artists, I think.

491

You know, they go on the road, which is

492

kind of the dream of most musicians.

493

to be on the

494

road And play live and they get out there

and, you know, it's a barely a break even.

495

a

496

break

497

or even a, it's a loss.

498

Jason English (Host): my perspective

as a listener, it's awesome because

499

you, it's just there, it's accessible.

500

Spotify and others are great to, to

like, okay, if I like Jack O'Neill,

501

you know, who else can I like?

502

And they'll tee those up.

503

And so I would come

across bands and stuff.

504

Obviously I would never have

learned about without that.

505

Um,

506

but I just think the math, the math,

on your side is, I don't know, it

507

doesn't, it doesn't respect, like you

said, one, the, just the art form,

508

the talent, the time and all that.

509

So, um, so yeah, it's just,

it's really interesting.

510

Jack O'Neill: I just try to look at

it like, well, where else can you

511

have the

512

potential to reach this many people

that you would not reach, you know?

513

But it makes, you know,

514

there are definitely days where

you question the whole thing.

515

Just like,

516

why am I You know, why

517

am I

518

why am I doing this?

519

You know, this

520

is really, really difficult,

521

uh,

522

to go it alone.

523

And, You know?

524

The truth is,

525

you know,

526

back,

527

back in the

528

day, Cary and I made a cassette tape.

529

That was our first,

530

you know,

531

recorded product And that got

passed around by word of mouth.

532

And

533

you know, somebody in

Michigan would be like, Hey.

534

I've got This cassette of you guys

Will you come up to Michigan and play.

535

Michigan and

536

play.

537

Um, so, you know, that's kind of how

things went viral back in the day.

538

Jason English (Host): Yeah,

539

Jack O'Neill: was somebody

Burning, burning cassette tapes.

540

the streaming thing just kind of

satisfies a huge distribution issue.

541

So,

542

like when

543

we first made our first CD

544

in the

545

early nineties,

546

the

547

uh, the first

548

reaction from a lot of people

was like, you can do that?

549

You know, you can go out you

don't have a record label, you

550

can go out and make your own CD?

551

Oh, no

552

shit.

553

You know,

554

there were those kinds of gatekeepers.

555

But then after you make

a CD, you still need.

556

put it in

557

stores, and get people in the stores.

558

And

559

so now that this whole

creating a physical copy

560

and getting that distribution is

561

kind of solved by streaming.

562

You know, you

563

can make something on your laptop

and load it up and, you know, use

564

whatever distribution service and,

and, and your, your songs out there.

565

Uh, and

566

then

567

the really

568

hard work begins.

569

Jason English (Host): in terms of.

570

is

571

Jack O'Neill: of, you know, just the ease

with which you can get stuff kind of into

572

the world, but it doesn't make it any

easier for for people to to, to find it.

573

I mean, now there's

574

it.

575

I now there's

576

it's really difficult to keep up.

577

with everything, Whether it's

you know, streaming television.

578

Jason English (Host): television,

579

streaming

580

Jack O'Neill: music, you know,

581

know,

582

it's

583

just, it's hard to keep up.

584

So

585

Jason English (Host): up.

586

Since a little bit, this is with

my little podcast that I do.

587

But for me, if someone listens to this

show, like two minutes or 30 minutes,

588

and if someone listens to your song

for a minute or three and a half

589

minutes, that's actually a big deal.

590

Just given all the options that we have.

591

Right.

592

So, you know, it's all perspective.

593

I mean, that's a, you know, for,

to have someone listen to a song.

594

For that, like in the car or like

when they're exercising and then

595

like in their car listening to a

show like this for us to capture

596

their attention for however long.

597

It's like, okay, that's actually a big

deal because there's so many options for

598

people to like spend their time on, right?

599

Jack O'Neill: yeah, there,

600

Yeah.

601

it's true.

602

The, It's a battle

603

for attention.

604

It's a battle to get.

605

You

606

you know, how do you break through all of

607

all of that.

608

Yeah.

609

Yeah.

610

I don't want to say

611

noise, but

612

you

613

know, how do you break through all that

competition and I've heard very Well,

614

known established musicians talk about

How impossible it is to break through

615

and you're like, well, you're, you got

a huge name and you feel the same, You

616

know, you feel the same, same stress,

you know, and I think also part of it

617

is, you know, we're, we're, we're making

618

music, we're putting music in the world

and maybe it has visuals with it, but our,

619

you know,

620

that attention span,

621

you know, our music is competing.

622

not with just other music, it's competing

with everything, you know, like you

623

know, TikTok runs the gamut in terms of,

624

you know, what kind of, what kind of,

I hate to say content, but the content

625

that people are looking at, it's not

like everybody's putting out music,

626

you

627

You know, you're going up against

just silly stuff, I, it's,

628

it's, no

629

no rhyme or reason.

630

So

631

so.

632

No, it's, yeah, it's

633

I don't know.

634

They're, uh, yeah.

635

Jason English (Host): All right,

well, let's get back to the good

636

stuff, which is the art, right?

637

Um, and the, yeah, the

638

good stuff that you're, you're doing.

639

So, so far you've, uh,

released, I think, four or five

640

singles since February, right?

641

And actually today is the latest one,

just ironically here in late June.

642

That one's called Airport

Bars and Air Guitars, right?

643

Um, and, but yeah, you've, you've, uh,

644

Jack O'Neill: yeah, yeah,

645

Jason English (Host): that was your

continuation of, uh, living on a

646

prayer, I think from Jon Bon Jovi's.

647

Is that right?

648

Or your

649

Jack O'Neill: yeah, Yeah

panic in the cul de sac

650

Jason English (Host): Yeah

651

Pat, uh

652

Jack O'Neill: Yeah, yeah, yeah,

653

Jason English (Host): Uh, and then the

first one was Weight of the World, right?

654

So I think

655

Uh, and then there's a couple other

ones that we can talk about but

656

I guess could we just Hit each of

those at a high level Uh, just in

657

terms

658

of kind of understanding You Your mind

space, the context, and uh, and then

659

I've got the lyrics that, you know, I

might read a few lines because, uh, you

660

know, obviously a lot of it stuck out,

uh, when I was listening, but also when

661

I actually read the words on the paper.

662

So, um, yeah, if we can get

663

into it,

664

Jack O'Neill: Oh

665

Jason English (Host): I guess let's

start with the one, the most recent

666

one, uh, airport bars and air guitar.

667

So I

668

would

669

Jack O'Neill: Airport.

670

Jason English (Host): the time

in your life that inspired this

671

Jack O'Neill: So airport

bars and air guitars

672

Was definitely, uh, this is

673

at the very tail end

of my drinking career.

674

So, um,

675

I got, you know, I, I got pretty

676

reliant on

677

alcohol,

678

um, until I

679

quit drinking.

680

And when I quit drinking,

it was actually a really

681

huge challenge.

682

It was a

683

really difficult thing to do.

684

But,

685

you know, I

686

got to a point

687

in the, the mid

688

2010s.

689

Where I was just like, I, you know, I

was working a day job in New York City.

690

Uh, I was playing music on, you know,

691

a

692

weekend or two a month

693

with

694

Jackopierce, But I would bounce

from like this day job world

695

to the

696

road,

697

back to the day job world.

698

And the deeper I got into this day job,

699

the more demanding it became, you know?

700

like,

701

it Was almost like I.

702

Jason English (Host):

sales for like a magazine?

703

Is that what I

704

remember?

705

Jack O'Neill: Yeah, well,

706

I started in magazines.

707

Yeah,

708

I mean, it's, it's a

long, Convoluted story.

709

I started, uh, I was,

710

I started as a temp.

711

Back in the day I was an

actor in New York City.

712

Somebody was like, Hey,

you want to come temp?

713

I was like, I don't even

know what that means.

714

but sure.

715

And I

716

swear it ended up.

717

15 years later, I'm like,

718

what am I doing?

719

Um,

720

so I'd be on the road and

721

drinking way too much.

722

And if there was a robe in the hotel room,

723

I would

724

always

725

put on the robe and

726

crush the

727

minibar.

728

And You know, it was a

very unhealthy existence.

729

And I just kind of had this

730

thought one time I was like,

what if I called room service and

731

just ask for

732

a pistol?

733

Jason English (Host): Oh,

734

Jack O'Neill: Yeah.

735

like I've, I've, I've done with

736

this.

737

It's a

738

pretty dark.

739

subject matter, but it's tongue in cheek.

740

It's tongue in cheek.

741

I don't know.

742

Probably

743

shouldn't share this.

744

It's it's pretty dark actually, but um,

745

Jason English (Host): No, this

is this is this is it right?

746

This is what it's about

747

Jack O'Neill: but it

748

was you know, it was you

know, I was that miserable.

749

I was at a point where I

was like, man, i'm just

750

I can't, I don't know what I don't

know what I can't do anymore, but I

751

whatever i'm doing I can't do anymore

752

And I don't know

753

if it's trying to be a

754

musician when I, I don't write anything.

755

Uh,

756

or

757

being

758

a, a guy with a day job who

feels like he's totally faking

759

that whole thing.

760

And,

761

it led me to was finally going

like, I'm going to quit drinking.

762

And actually I quit my job

763

and quit drinking.

764

So I resigned from my job

765

and quit

766

drinking.

767

And basically

768

except for

769

one little moment, have never looked back.

770

And

771

Jason English (Host): Oh, good

772

Jack O'Neill: And It was

during that period where I,

773

for the first time in my life,

774

uh,

775

and thanks to a good

friend of mine who was

776

was helping me get sober, that I was like,

you know what, I'm a I'm a songwriter.

777

That's what I, that's really what I am.

778

Not,

779

you know,

780

it

781

know, it took that, it took that

782

experience for me to like,

783

not have a revelation or

anything like that, but

784

to get to a point in my life where

I was like, uh, I'm just going to

785

admit, I'm an artist,

786

and this is what I do.

787

And, I can try to pretend like

that's not a thing in my life, but

788

the reality is it's

789

totally a thing in my life.

790

And kind

791

of once I gave that up, I gave

up drinking, I gave up this

792

idea of

793

of having some kind of normal

794

nine to five life, and was like, I,

I'm going to sit down and write songs,

795

whether I want to or not, I might as well.

796

embrace

797

it and enjoy it.

798

And, and, um, honestly, now

I can't stop writing songs.

799

Jason English (Host): Oh, that's

800

Jack O'Neill: So it's a really

weird place to be kind of this late

801

in my life,

802

but you know, never better

late than never, I guess.

803

So,

804

Jason English (Host): with

songwriter rather than actor.

805

Jack O'Neill: yeah,

806

Jason English (Host):

You know, like that's

807

interesting

808

Jack O'Neill: well, you know,

809

Jason English (Host): you know, yeah.

810

Jack O'Neill: well,

811

it's

812

kind of, you know, I, I,

813

I

814

spend more time writing songs

815

than I do acting.

816

And that's because I can

totally control writing songs.

817

you know, uh,

818

Controlling

819

acting gigs a little tougher.

820

But,

821

even the acting thing is something

I came back to in that period after

822

I quit

823

drinking.

824

And

825

even that wasn't really a

conscious decision, man.

826

It, it, It's crazy how the universe speaks

827

to you.

828

It was just kind of one day, it was like a

829

slow moving

830

realization where I'm like,

831

oh,

832

when I first moved to New York,

833

you know, I was

834

involved with

835

the Flea Theater downtown.

836

I was in the downtown theater scene.

837

and.

838

I slowly just pulled myself out of that.

839

I slowly pulled myself

out of being a musician

840

to try to satisfy this other idea I had

of what I should be doing with my life.

841

And here I am back where I started

20 years ago, almost, you know,

842

like kind of crazy now that I

843

talk about it out loud.

844

Um,

845

Jason English (Host): Are

846

you,

847

Jack O'Neill: I was always much,

848

Jason English (Host): sorry, do you think

like today, uh, are you, are you happy?

849

And are you, is this

like, are you content?

850

Are you, you know, like what you're

doing, is this what you should be doing?

851

Jack O'Neill: Yeah, I, I've never,

I've never felt this level of like

852

um, Comfort with

853

my place in the world.

854

You know, you know what I mean?

855

Like, um,

856

I, Yes, very happy, very content.

857

You know, kind of like uh, you know, it's,

858

it takes a lot of stress off.

859

in the

860

sense that,

861

you know, I feel

862

like when I was younger it

was like, man, I need to, uh,

863

something big needs to happen

864

so I can be happy.

865

Or something big needs to happen

so I can have money to be happy.

866

or, you know,

867

shit like that.

868

And now it's like, man,

my life is fantastic.

869

As it is

870

right now in this moment.

871

Like,

872

I could not ask for more,

873

So

874

why not write a song about

airport bars and air guitars?

875

Who's, you know, you

know what I mean, Like,

876

um,

877

Jason English (Host): yeah, no,

here's, here's what I think.

878

I mean, my point of view on that.

879

And so like, just real quick,

well, if you, do you mind if I

880

read a couple of these lines just,

881

you know, for

882

Jack O'Neill: yeah, sure.

883

Jason English (Host): uh, so

I, you know, I called room

884

service, requested a revolver.

885

It paused from reception, then laughter.

886

Alone in a hotel robe, I cradled the

phone and wondered if I got it wrong.

887

Uh, you know, it goes on about,

you know, shaving cream and

888

razors and the typical things you

might call reception for, right?

889

Um,

890

uh, and then it's like airport

bars and air guitars, last call

891

ringing out in power cords,

losing my way, losing the war.

892

Don't ask me how I'm getting home.

893

Um, but I think like, The fact that you

wrote that today, when you are, you know,

894

or recently when you're like the happiest

moment, I mean, those feelings must still

895

be so real that they're still accessible.

896

Right.

897

And I think what's cool about it is,

uh, there's probably others, whether

898

there's listeners or other artists that

might be asking those same questions.

899

You know, how do I get home right now?

900

And the fact that you're kind

of on the other side, I think

901

is, you know, speaks a lot.

902

Probably will give people

some, uh, some inspiration.

903

So I think that's great.

904

Jack O'Neill: Well,

905

I, man,

906

that that's

907

such an insightful question.

908

Um,

909

that's a great

910

point because

911

it's like when the song was

realized, I had already kind of

912

kind of made it through.

913

that period When I first came up with

914

the idea of

915

air airport bars and air guitars, I

was in an airport bar in Nashville.

916

and

917

some guy was playing, you

know how they have guys,

918

um, And I use anyway.

919

There are people performing

in the corner and I was like,

920

airport bars and air guitars.

921

And of course I was getting hammered.

922

Um,

923

But

924

when I was, and I still do, I still write,

925

like,

926

I don't want to call it journaling,

927

I don't know what you call it, but

928

I

929

always was, found comfort in words.

930

Whether it was reading something,

931

listening to

932

some, something with good

933

meaning.

934

Words

935

that spoke to me, or writing my own words.

936

I always found it

937

It was a comfortable place to be like

938

Jason English (Host): Like,

939

Jack O'Neill: I could say that

kind of stuff, like, I called

940

reception requested a revolver,

941

and they laughed at me,

942

and it kind of

943

feels good to put it on paper

because it's ridiculous.

944

Um, and not something I think I

would ever do, obviously, but um,

945

when

946

I say, you know, I've definitely

hit a low point in my life,

947

it was pretty low, you know?

948

But to be able to record that

now and look at it and say

949

Yeah,

950

and that snapshot of that moment is real.

951

You know, like,

952

that's some real shit right there.

953

But, you know, hopefully as a little

bit of humor comes through in there.

954

I mean, like, the, at the end of the day,

all I do is, like, I think about just

955

walking out wearing the robe.

956

You know like Maybe, you know, you know,

we get, we get pretty down on ourselves.

957

We can beat up ourselves.

958

I know.

959

I think that's a universal thing,

whether you're an artist or not,

960

we can just be our own worst critics,

961

regardless of what,

962

what we do in life.

963

And I think everybody can relate

to like, just really like,

964

getting down on yourself and, and

kind of like, let's, let's worst

965

case scenario, this, you know?

966

let's, let's worst case scenario

that, now that I release it that

967

I start to have reservations,

968

where I'm like, Wow, that

is kind of some intense

969

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

970

Jack O'Neill: Is it intense, Or do people,

971

You know,

972

now, now I have self doubt

973

channeling through my

974

veins of

975

did, you know,

976

you know,

977

um, cause you don't want to you know,

978

you

979

you want to, don't want to, uh,

980

want

981

make fun of of, you know, serious

982

of

983

make

984

you know, anybody might

have, but I can only say that

985

know,

986

I shared them, you know, like,

987

Jason English (Host): you know,

988

anybody like that.

989

But I can only say that I share them.

990

Of his journal when he was

trying to become sober.

991

So like when he was going through that

process every day, he'd wrote, he'd

992

write down just a random thought and

it could be sad, it could be anger.

993

It could be something that reminds

him of his family or whatever.

994

And his point in that is like, if people

were trying to do dry January, even

995

that is a struggle for a lot of people.

996

And so he just wanted to put out like

these thoughts to encourage people.

997

And uh, you know, I think the response

To him of that being vulnerable just

998

on social media like on instagram of

sharing those things I mean, I know he's

999

gotten so much positive feedback of like

man, I you know I know what that's like

00:36:59,495 --> 00:37:03,565

and it's the it's the roller coaster of

the feelings and all those things so I

00:37:03,565 --> 00:37:08,165

think like that to me, that's why art

is art and music is music and we need

00:37:08,165 --> 00:37:15,445

people like you all to express those

Experiences in a way that It can relate

00:37:15,445 --> 00:37:17,105

to, you know, as many people as possible.

00:37:17,105 --> 00:37:19,735

So I know, I know what you're saying in

00:37:19,735 --> 00:37:20,095

terms of the

00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:20,300

Jack O'Neill: No,

00:37:20,365 --> 00:37:22,215

Jason English (Host): doubt, but

like it's, it's all good man.

00:37:24,290 --> 00:37:24,660

Jack O'Neill: yeah, I,

00:37:24,700 --> 00:37:25,600

I appreciate that.

00:37:25,650 --> 00:37:29,760

I mean, you know, to me that

the art I always connect with is

00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,150

something that, you know, obviously

00:37:32,267 --> 00:37:33,029

know, obviously

00:37:33,029 --> 00:37:33,410

says

00:37:33,420 --> 00:37:36,660

says something about like,

Hey, you're, you're not alone.

00:37:36,700 --> 00:37:36,930

Like

00:37:36,930 --> 00:37:37,310

we're, we're

00:37:37,310 --> 00:37:39,510

kind of all, we're all

00:37:39,510 --> 00:37:42,020

kind of going through

this thing, you know, Like

00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:43,370

you're not crazy, man.

00:37:43,390 --> 00:37:44,090

You know, like

00:37:44,630 --> 00:37:45,630

what you're thinking about.

00:37:45,630 --> 00:37:48,330

or what you're feeling, You

know, you're, you're not the

00:37:48,330 --> 00:37:50,030

only person in the world that's

00:37:50,268 --> 00:37:50,641

feeling

00:37:50,641 --> 00:37:51,015

that

00:37:51,065 --> 00:37:51,565

right now.

00:37:52,045 --> 00:37:56,645

And, um, so I've always kind of

gravitated that kind of stuff.

00:37:56,905 --> 00:37:58,725

Even when I was a kid, you know, like,

00:37:59,037 --> 00:37:59,587

like,

00:37:59,845 --> 00:38:01,005

the lyrics were important.

00:38:01,375 --> 00:38:03,625

Um, the Edmund Fitzgerald, I

don't know if you remember that

00:38:03,993 --> 00:38:04,544

Jason English (Host): that

00:38:04,805 --> 00:38:05,555

Jack O'Neill: I was fascinated

00:38:05,555 --> 00:38:07,255

by it when I was like

five or six years old.

00:38:07,515 --> 00:38:07,995

Because

00:38:07,995 --> 00:38:08,475

it

00:38:08,625 --> 00:38:10,785

Cause it told the true

story about the shipwreck.

00:38:12,390 --> 00:38:12,710

You know, and I

00:38:12,720 --> 00:38:13,300

asked my mom,

00:38:13,300 --> 00:38:14,440

like, is this real?

00:38:14,500 --> 00:38:16,200

She was like, it's a real thing, man.

00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,680

And uh, she was like, look

it up in the encyclopedia.

00:38:19,810 --> 00:38:20,980

Jason English (Host): Oh

my gosh, that's awesome.

00:38:20,980 --> 00:38:21,250

Yeah,

00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:22,640

Jack O'Neill: which we had and

00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:24,410

which it was in there,

you know what I mean?

00:38:24,500 --> 00:38:26,720

I was like, this, this

is in the encyclopedia.

00:38:26,720 --> 00:38:27,870

This is some legit shit.

00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:32,250

Um, but I mean that universal story,

you know, I just thought about

00:38:33,010 --> 00:38:36,050

the sailors on the ship and their

families at the church service.

00:38:36,050 --> 00:38:39,630

And I just, that was so just

profound to me is a six year old.

00:38:39,630 --> 00:38:39,890

So.

00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:44,080

That kind of stuff, um,

kind of sticks with me.

00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:46,330

So maybe that's the reason,

you know, maybe that's the

00:38:46,330 --> 00:38:50,160

reason, you know, a lot of times

you start writing something and

00:38:51,540 --> 00:38:52,880

you don't know where it's going.

00:38:53,210 --> 00:38:55,640

You don't know why you're writing it.

00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:01,420

You know, you don't, you know, it's

like the, the, the secret reveals

00:39:01,420 --> 00:39:03,120

itself or it doesn't, I don't know.

00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,990

You know, it's, it's like a,

being a detective kind of.

00:39:09,145 --> 00:39:12,325

Jason English (Host): again, as a fan and

someone that's listened to you forever,

00:39:13,245 --> 00:39:16,885

the fact that you came to that realization

that you're an artist and a songwriter.

00:39:17,185 --> 00:39:21,415

And the fact that now that you Have

sort of accepted the fact that you

00:39:21,445 --> 00:39:24,935

need to write songs is I think it's

great news for everybody But you've

00:39:24,935 --> 00:39:30,325

been writing amazing songs with amazing

lyrics for 30 35 years So for all of

00:39:30,325 --> 00:39:33,295

us, like we're i'm excited to hear that

you're going to be doing more of that.

00:39:33,295 --> 00:39:33,885

So that's great

00:39:35,300 --> 00:39:36,070

Jack O'Neill: Well, thank you, man.

00:39:36,230 --> 00:39:36,720

Thank you.

00:39:37,325 --> 00:39:41,425

Jason English (Host): it's almost fourth

of july Um in one of the Other recent

00:39:41,425 --> 00:39:47,175

songs that you've released as part of

this process is called damn good son and

00:39:47,175 --> 00:39:54,165

uh Yeah, this is like it's like a born

on the fourth of july kind of vibe, uh

00:39:54,185 --> 00:39:58,015

when I listened to it and when I read

it um I'll just read some lyrics and

00:39:58,015 --> 00:40:00,465

then if you could give us some context

to that we could talk about that.

00:40:00,485 --> 00:40:00,795

It's

00:40:00,815 --> 00:40:05,945

uh um This is kind of in the

middle in good american country.

00:40:05,965 --> 00:40:07,415

What's left of a hurricane?

00:40:07,970 --> 00:40:09,760

So it's a small southern town.

00:40:09,890 --> 00:40:12,820

We stand our ground beneath

the trees that line the lake.

00:40:13,260 --> 00:40:17,170

I was a damn good son and I did what I

could to be everything you asked of me.

00:40:17,570 --> 00:40:20,790

The words I spoke, the oath I took,

and just the beating heart of me.

00:40:21,390 --> 00:40:23,630

You can cover yourself in

the night like a glory.

00:40:23,670 --> 00:40:25,490

It ain't never gonna set you free.

00:40:26,430 --> 00:40:32,320

Um, so I'm getting that, hey, I'm a

damn good son of America and I gave an

00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,360

oath to serve the country and stuff,

but I, I'm just wondering like what.

00:40:36,375 --> 00:40:37,925

When did you come up with that?

00:40:37,925 --> 00:40:39,375

And what was the context of that?

00:40:41,770 --> 00:40:45,260

Jack O'Neill: Well, I mean,

that's a pretty spot on analysis.

00:40:45,340 --> 00:40:45,940

So,

00:40:47,655 --> 00:40:47,825

Cause

00:40:47,825 --> 00:40:49,885

Jason English (Host): you, you come,

you come from a military family, right?

00:40:49,980 --> 00:40:50,295

Jack O'Neill: Yeah.

00:40:50,295 --> 00:40:50,610

So

00:40:51,007 --> 00:40:51,087

Jason English (Host): Yeah.

00:40:51,122 --> 00:40:51,862

Jack O'Neill: I come from a,

00:40:51,892 --> 00:40:54,542

uh, my dad, it was a career army.

00:40:56,032 --> 00:40:56,882

Uh, the army.

00:40:56,882 --> 00:40:57,037

Yeah, right.

00:40:57,317 --> 00:40:58,167

He didn't choose the

00:40:58,167 --> 00:40:58,517

army.

00:40:58,517 --> 00:40:59,167

Let's put it that

00:40:59,167 --> 00:40:59,397

way.

00:40:59,397 --> 00:41:00,347

The draft

00:41:00,387 --> 00:41:00,957

chose him.

00:41:00,957 --> 00:41:01,687

during Vietnam.

00:41:01,687 --> 00:41:02,837

He's a combat veteran.

00:41:03,617 --> 00:41:05,027

Uh, he's a paratrooper.

00:41:05,497 --> 00:41:05,667

My

00:41:06,117 --> 00:41:06,847

My mother

00:41:06,857 --> 00:41:08,677

was pregnant with me

00:41:08,947 --> 00:41:10,357

when my dad went to Vietnam.

00:41:10,907 --> 00:41:12,027

So this, um,

00:41:13,727 --> 00:41:15,477

you know, so I

00:41:15,497 --> 00:41:17,417

grew up in, in, in that environment.

00:41:17,457 --> 00:41:19,137

My dad was a career army guy

00:41:19,957 --> 00:41:20,317

and just

00:41:20,317 --> 00:41:20,437

a

00:41:20,457 --> 00:41:21,187

great dude.

00:41:21,197 --> 00:41:22,277

He's a great dude.

00:41:22,917 --> 00:41:24,797

Um, you know, but

00:41:24,797 --> 00:41:26,487

he's, you know, master parachutist,

00:41:26,907 --> 00:41:27,207

Been in

00:41:27,207 --> 00:41:28,327

combat, like,

00:41:28,847 --> 00:41:29,347

so cool.

00:41:29,357 --> 00:41:31,597

But I grew up bouncing

around all these army posts.

00:41:31,627 --> 00:41:33,717

And I mean, it was just

such a huge part of my life.

00:41:34,277 --> 00:41:34,907

All of it.

00:41:34,967 --> 00:41:37,037

Um, so I don't know

00:41:37,037 --> 00:41:37,477

when it was.

00:41:37,497 --> 00:41:37,987

It was

00:41:38,647 --> 00:41:40,097

six years ago or something.

00:41:41,187 --> 00:41:41,507

there was

00:41:41,507 --> 00:41:43,247

a really rare hurricane

00:41:44,587 --> 00:41:44,947

that

00:41:45,587 --> 00:41:45,857

was

00:41:45,897 --> 00:41:50,457

weak and lame, but it soaked the shit

out of Texas on Memorial Day weekend.

00:41:51,607 --> 00:41:54,407

And I'm up in New York, and I'm

like, man, that is going to ruin

00:41:54,567 --> 00:41:55,847

some barbecues, you know?

00:41:56,242 --> 00:41:57,092

Jason English (Host): Seriously, yeah.

00:41:57,787 --> 00:41:59,517

Jack O'Neill: So then,

of course, I'm like,

00:41:59,517 --> 00:42:00,997

well, you know, it's going to

00:42:00,997 --> 00:42:03,127

ruin barbecues, man,

but it's Memorial Day.

00:42:03,127 --> 00:42:06,187

I mean, we should, you know, we should

be also be thinking about the sacrifice.

00:42:06,187 --> 00:42:09,587

you know, So I got all heavy about

it, and I thought, all right, What

00:42:09,587 --> 00:42:11,737

if, what if a bunch of, uh, you know,

00:42:12,064 --> 00:42:12,438

veterans

00:42:12,438 --> 00:42:12,812

were

00:42:12,817 --> 00:42:14,587

veterans were like, screw it.

00:42:14,617 --> 00:42:17,017

we're going down to the lake,

drinking beer, and we're going to,

00:42:17,298 --> 00:42:17,672

then,

00:42:17,672 --> 00:42:18,046

you

00:42:18,077 --> 00:42:21,087

we're going to toast, toast

ourselves, toast our absent

00:42:21,087 --> 00:42:22,187

friends, that kind of thing.

00:42:22,557 --> 00:42:24,657

So that's on the surface,

where it started.

00:42:24,657 --> 00:42:25,457

And of course, I

00:42:25,997 --> 00:42:29,237

specifically am thinking of like Fort

Hood, Texas, and the lakes around

00:42:29,237 --> 00:42:30,347

there, where I went to high school.

00:42:31,097 --> 00:42:36,247

You know, so I can be very specific with,

you know, like, geography and stuff.

00:42:36,247 --> 00:42:36,907

when I'm writing this.

00:42:37,987 --> 00:42:41,047

But I was working on that song for a long

time, I'm like, man, this is just too

00:42:41,647 --> 00:42:41,957

this is

00:42:41,957 --> 00:42:42,417

too much.

00:42:42,417 --> 00:42:43,017

What am I doing?

00:42:43,017 --> 00:42:44,237

It's too heavy handed.

00:42:44,237 --> 00:42:46,447

Like, I It's truthful.

00:42:46,497 --> 00:42:48,627

I believe this, but I don't know

00:42:49,712 --> 00:42:49,842

Uh,

00:42:50,342 --> 00:42:50,672

It's too

00:42:50,672 --> 00:42:51,282

much for me.

00:42:51,422 --> 00:42:52,312

you know, So I kept

00:42:52,572 --> 00:42:53,312

walking away from

00:42:53,312 --> 00:42:53,472

it.

00:42:54,392 --> 00:42:54,702

and then I

00:42:54,722 --> 00:42:55,302

go back.

00:42:56,002 --> 00:42:56,732

And, um,

00:42:58,342 --> 00:42:59,852

The Damn Good Son thing,

00:43:00,712 --> 00:43:01,112

uh,

00:43:01,512 --> 00:43:03,202

It hit me, like, about a year ago.

00:43:04,842 --> 00:43:05,392

uh, that the

00:43:05,392 --> 00:43:09,242

reason I wrote the song, actually, you

know, topically, yes, you're correct.

00:43:09,292 --> 00:43:12,442

That's what it was topically,

But really, the story,

00:43:13,172 --> 00:43:15,872

for me, internally, personally, is

00:43:17,597 --> 00:43:18,127

Finding my

00:43:18,127 --> 00:43:20,447

way back from, uh, from being a

00:43:20,577 --> 00:43:21,677

really terrible

00:43:21,727 --> 00:43:22,767

alcoholic dude

00:43:23,867 --> 00:43:24,387

And,

00:43:24,397 --> 00:43:25,287

and, and,

00:43:26,067 --> 00:43:27,797

and trying to find my way,

00:43:28,087 --> 00:43:32,147

way back to being, you know,

kind of the, the kid I was.

00:43:32,147 --> 00:43:36,557

you know, And what really drove

that home is, is uh, a couple of

00:43:36,557 --> 00:43:39,127

years into my sobriety, my mother

00:43:39,350 --> 00:43:39,774

mother

00:43:39,774 --> 00:43:40,199

passed

00:43:40,227 --> 00:43:42,787

um, who passed away in March.

00:43:43,077 --> 00:43:45,307

um, Said to me,

00:43:45,715 --> 00:43:46,139

Jackie,

00:43:46,139 --> 00:43:46,563

you

00:43:46,747 --> 00:43:48,957

And she always called me

Jackie, she said, Jackie,

00:43:49,109 --> 00:43:50,382

when you were

00:43:50,382 --> 00:43:50,806

15

00:43:50,927 --> 00:43:53,247

you remind me of how you were

when you were 15 years old.

00:43:53,297 --> 00:43:53,817

You're just

00:43:54,201 --> 00:43:54,625

seen

00:43:54,817 --> 00:43:55,377

so,

00:43:55,474 --> 00:43:56,322

in a

00:43:56,322 --> 00:43:56,746

long

00:43:56,957 --> 00:43:58,807

I just haven't seen

this kid in a long time.

00:43:59,047 --> 00:44:00,447

you know, and I'm like, oh wow.

00:44:01,167 --> 00:44:01,837

And.

00:44:04,257 --> 00:44:06,327

My parents knew I quit

drinking, but I didn't

00:44:06,387 --> 00:44:09,037

they didn't know, like,

the, you know, the,

00:44:09,147 --> 00:44:10,887

the, the

00:44:10,897 --> 00:44:11,437

inside

00:44:11,437 --> 00:44:12,027

boxing

00:44:12,177 --> 00:44:13,347

of the whole thing.

00:44:13,417 --> 00:44:14,967

You know, they were just

like, oh, you quit drinking?

00:44:14,967 --> 00:44:16,067

That's, that's good.

00:44:16,077 --> 00:44:17,007

You don't need to do that.

00:44:17,007 --> 00:44:17,907

Here, have a beer, you know.

00:44:17,907 --> 00:44:21,097

Um,

00:44:21,277 --> 00:44:21,677

but it

00:44:21,677 --> 00:44:23,847

kind of hit me, uh, about a year ago.

00:44:23,857 --> 00:44:26,077

I was like, oh, that's actually

what the song is really about.

00:44:26,107 --> 00:44:28,887

And that's why I couldn't

let it go, and that's why

00:44:29,537 --> 00:44:29,977

I made

00:44:29,987 --> 00:44:34,507

up another story to try to

tell, uh, the actual story.

00:44:34,527 --> 00:44:42,527

which is, you know, a pretty classic

story, the lost son, but, um, You

00:44:42,527 --> 00:44:45,357

know, It's like trying to find your

find your way back after you, you've

00:44:45,357 --> 00:44:45,372

gone

00:44:46,322 --> 00:44:47,762

gone through something, whether

00:44:47,842 --> 00:44:49,122

it's by your own design,

00:44:49,122 --> 00:44:50,882

which in my case, mostly was,

00:44:51,452 --> 00:44:51,872

you know, it's

00:44:51,882 --> 00:44:53,792

finding your way back to to being

00:44:53,792 --> 00:44:54,442

a, uh, the

00:44:54,462 --> 00:44:57,182

the better or best version of yourself,

00:44:58,322 --> 00:44:58,802

or the, maybe

00:44:58,992 --> 00:45:02,462

the version of yourself you were

always supposed to be before you

00:45:02,462 --> 00:45:04,232

lost, kind of lost your shit.

00:45:04,342 --> 00:45:08,762

And kind of, kind of, uh, uh, you know,

a universal, uh, you know, I think,

00:45:09,712 --> 00:45:11,002

I think we can all relate to that.

00:45:11,452 --> 00:45:14,722

Uh, just The story, the

details are different.

00:45:14,742 --> 00:45:15,982

The story is kind of the same.