What does it really take to be a good mom, a good wife, and still run a thriving law firm? 🌍 When Hurricane Katrina forced Elise Buie to rebuild her life from scratch—not once, but twice—she discovered resilience most of us can only imagine. Today, she leads a 40-person remote-first firm with a culture built on accountability, kindness, and something she calls “unreasonable hospitality.” But how do you balance family, leadership, and growth without burning out—or losing yourself along the way?

Jonathan Hawkins: And you mentioned sort of the remote firm. You know, obviously hiring is the first key. But how do you promote the culture and the comradery in a remote firm? And it's a challenge, I mean, it is. And you gotta learn how to do it and figure it out. And any tips you have would be greatly appreciated.

Elise Buie: Yeah, well, it's funny.

Jonathan Hawkins: To others.

Elise Buie: it's funny that you asked that today. We literally just completed a small group retreat in our firm potluck this weekend. Like I've had, you know, 25 people at my home, you know, from Thursday till yesterday. And so it is, we do all kinds of things. I mean, we do these quarterly small group retreats.

Welcome to the Founding Partner Podcast. Join your host, Jonathan Hawkins, as we explore the fascinating stories of successful law firm founders. We'll uncover their beginnings, triumph over challenges, and practice growth. Whether you aspire to launch your own firm, have an entrepreneurial spirit, or are just curious about the legal business, you're in the right place.

Let's dive in.

Jonathan Hawkins: Welcome to Founding Partner podcast. I'm your host, Jonathan Hawkins. This is a podcast where I get to interview law firm founders and owners, hear about their journeys, and hopefully learn a lot about what they have learned along the way so I can implement it with my firm. And maybe you guys listening can implement it with yours.

Elise Buie: Sure. Thanks so much for having me, and thank you for the reschedules, those that were on me. I really appreciate it. So I, like he said, I do own a family, an estate planning law firm in Seattle. I've been running the firm for about 10 and a half years now. We are a remote firm. We've always been remote, so even before it was COVID cool to be remote.

How do we owners buy back a little bit of our time and sanity in this process?

Jonathan Hawkins: We all want that,

Elise Buie: Yeah,

Jonathan Hawkins: hard to come by sometimes. So what, so you do family law and estate planning, so what's the balance there? I'm curious about you know, how those two practice series work and how maybe the percentage of your firm.

Elise Buie: We are definitely by far heavier in the family law arena and we started doing estate planning a few years ago really it was a decision on my part that I had been referring out all my clients to this other estate planning attorney, and I thought, well, that was sweet of me to literally just develop this guy's practice.

And so.

Jonathan Hawkins: When you announced that was like the worst announcement ever for

Elise Buie: Luckily we're still friends.

Elise Buie: I, am.

Jonathan Hawkins: yeah. So, how did you end up in Seattle?

And when she offered me the salary, I was like, girl, you've got to be joking me. So I thought, yeah, no, I can't do this. And so I started my own practice and have kind of been going ever since then. And it was fun because she was somebody I was able to work with and really mentor through. I mean, she's now passed away, but through the end of her life.

And she was like, gosh, I wish I'd met you earlier. Like, my firm would've done better. I was like. But it was kind of cool 'cause she really helped me get into Washington family law, understand all the things I needed to know, introduced me to a lot of people and I was able, able to help her. And so it was just one of those kind of cool, symbiotic relationships at a great time.

Elise Buie: Well, it's funny you asked that actually. When Katrina hit, you know, I actually was married to my ex-husband at the time who was exceedingly tech savvy and kind of tech forward. So he ran a remote law firm in Louisiana when Katrina hit. So, I kind of got to see what was possible, you know, really early on.

When I started my firm in Seattle, we had an office in downtown Seattle, a little one. I mean, we still have a little office in downtown Seattle. We don't go to it very much at all. I mean, I've only stepped into it one time, I think in five years. So, but I knew at the time that I started this firm.

And so lucky for me that Washington is very forward focused and progressive and you know, we had electronic filing from long ago and we were able to do a lot of the things. So I have been able to do this remotely for a very long time, and that has allowed me to really be able to be a good mom, a good wife, and a good lawyer.

Elise Buie: Well, back in the day, I did meet people in person a lot. I mean, they would come downtown to our little office. We had a conference room attached, and so, and I would meet them in person.

She was in her PJ's and fuzzy slippers and I was like, you know, we can do this here just as easy as we can do it anywhere. And so, you know, in that regard, I would say that one-to-one meeting was super powerful. But I mean, I can still do that now If I want. you know, most people don't want me showing up at their house though.

Jonathan Hawkins: If you bring coffee anytime, you know, so when you, when you practiced law in New Orleans, did you do family at all down there or was it something

And I thought if I'm gonna study like 20,000 hours on how to co-parent successfully, I might as well just put that into, you know, practice.

Jonathan Hawkins: So how long were you in Minnesota? I mean, you a firm there and then,

Elise Buie: I did, yeah, in for five years. We lived in Minnesota for five years.

Jonathan Hawkins: Okay. Okay. So then, so you've did the, you've done this twice. So I'm curious what it's like to move to a new state where you really don't. You're not in the embedded in the legal community,

Elise Buie: No,

Jonathan Hawkins: gotta start a criteria again. What was that like? You had to do it twice.

Elise Buie: twice. Yeah.

Jonathan Hawkins: I mean, once is a lot.

So anywhere you go, the grocery store buildings, wherever you're going, you are making connections. I had no idea that was very weird to New Orleans. So I moved to Minnesota and there I am chatting it up with the people at the grocery store, the people at the target, people in buildings when I'm, you know, going to job interviews and when everyone's looking at me like I have mental health illness, I was like, oh, I'm like, this is a different environment.

And so in a way I think that helped as I networked and you know, reached out to people because they'd be like, oh yeah, you're that odd one from New Orleans who's gonna talk to people? So, 'cause in Seattle people are very just quiet, reserved. I mean they call it the Seattle freeze and that's not a joke. I mean, you can like live here and not know your neighbors like, and that is wild to me.

Where you from? You know? What do you want for dinner tonight? What's your favorite cocktail? I'll bring it over. We can sit on the porch.

Jonathan Hawkins: They're definitely gonna ask about your cocktail for sure. In New Orleans.

Elise Buie: Oh yeah.

Jonathan Hawkins: yeah. You get your drive through daiquiris, you know, you know how it is.

Elise Buie: I didn't know that was weird either till I went to college and I was like, oh, y'all don't have drive through  daiquiris in Tennessee. What a funny thing.

Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah, so, so yeah. So back, you know. So You had to learn the practice

Elise Buie: Yeah,

Jonathan Hawkins: send me cases.

Elise Buie: I would say here in Washington it was very much related to my work as a guardian ad litem. I came in and was able to start working as a guardian ad litem in family law matters very quickly, you know, and two, I, because of the attorney I worked for before, she helped me know who are the top 15 family law lawyers in the city.

So I reached out to every single one of them, took them to lunch, you know, got to know them. And inevitably as is it is true everywhere, family law, you get booming business sometimes where you can't take it all or you have a conflict or whatever. So I was able to bring on cases, you know, almost immediately when I started my practice from that.

So in a way, that was such a lucky way for me to do it, because then again, I kept getting referrals from different attorneys all around and then have gotten referrals from courts, bailiffs, you know, a lot of things related to the guardian ad litem work that I did. I don't currently do guardian ad litem work anymore, but it was a big part of us getting started for sure.

Like I'd be able to put food on my table and make sure I was doing what I needed to do to support my kids. And then I kind of got that entrepreneur bug and I just really dug in and you know, really decided that I could do more, I could help more people, I could bring on people, you know, and it's just kind of grown from there.

Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah, so let's talk about that. I mean, you, you got 40 people now when you started, I assume it was just you. That's a lot of growth you know, in 10 years. you know, what was that beginning of that process look like? I mean, I've always, you know, my personally in talking to others, I feel like of have to make a decision.

Hey, I'm gonna go for it. What was the process for you?

Like the owner went to the dental hygienist and that was the wife of this guy. And so she really was like, you know, Elise, if you'll hire him and then, you know, we'll send over this paralegal too, then, you know, that would be really good. She's like, and I would feel good about all these things. And I'm like, okay, that'll be fine.

So I didn't realize just how scary it was to have people, you know, on the payroll immediately, but the minute the guy was able to get his license, 'cause at the time he wasn't licensed, he, I can't remember exactly, maybe he had just graduated and was taking the bar. And so he then could take on doing the dependency work very quickly.

I mean, I'm talking like, you know, $300,000 a year in student, you know, tuition, payments. And so there wasn't so much deciding as there was survival and my ex-husband is not great at his part of the financial piece of all this. So I was like, well Elise, you better get this figured out real quick. And you know, 'cause you got tuition bills and so I mean it, it was a wild ride.

Like what's the deal? I mean, it was tough.

Jonathan Hawkins: Wow. So, I, I, I'm feeling it.

Elise Buie: Yeah.

Jonathan Hawkins: hearing you talk about it. I'm feeling it. what was, what was, you know, this is another thing, you know, people that want to grow, it's, it's, you gotta get clients and then you gotta get people to help work, work it, and, and you know, what was your experience, what was easier for you?

And then, you know, part of this too, in the backdrop is you have a remote virtual firm back before anybody else really did it. So was that a challenge to get to recruit people to come work for a remote firm, or was it easier?

I would say that I did not do as good a job repelling, misaligned people. At the beginning, and so nor did I really dig in good enough in the hiring process. I am definitely, definitely the weak link in our firm's hiring process because I am a, oh, I can help that person. You know what I mean? Like, oh, I see those red flags, but that'll be fine.

Jonathan Hawkins: So, have you been removed from the hiring process largely now.

Elise Buie: I have largely been removed. I still, we have this one area that. We have all we can all agree to. I have what we call the anti EO interview. So it's the very last interview, just like 15 minutes. 'cause I cannot work with eos, period. I have learned that if you are an eo, you and I are not gonna get along at all.

And then I'm gonna avoid that person. You know what I mean? Like, I don't even wanna get on a meeting or anything. So I have to do an anti EO meet interview and, 'cause I really need to work with growth minded people. People who are kind of positive and just like, we got this, you know, and they'll roll with things and I cannot work with a ho hum.

Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah. Yeah. When I was coming up, the firms, they would call it the

Elise Buie: Yeah,

Jonathan Hawkins: We, we'd go out. See if you pass that. Lot of ways to fail it. Lots of ways.

Elise Buie: lots of ways.

Jonathan Hawkins: So, so back to the growth. This is another question that, that I think about a lot. It's do you hire before you're overwhelmed with work

Elise Buie: Oh,

Jonathan Hawkins: you get overwhelmed with work? Then hire, what's your approach?

You know, maybe they're doing 10 hours a week, then maybe they're doing 20. Once they've hit 20 hours a week, we're looking at a W2 hire. You know, and then whether that person may or may not be appropriate, you know, depending on what they're looking for, what we're looking for. And so we kind of are doing it like in step, you know, constantly.

We're going in and out. And, I mean, the hiring process, I would say is probably one of the most important things when you own a firm is paying attention to it. Making sure you are building out a process that has a robust entry point into your pipeline, and then ensuring that you do have the interviews and que.

Jonathan Hawkins: So how did you figure out how to design this hiring process?

Elise Buie: Oh.

Jonathan Hawkins: you learn? Where did you learn

Elise Buie: That's a great question. Two things. The top grading there's a book, you know, top grading, there's a class I love Top grading and then the WHO process. And so we really have combined those and I would say we rely heavily on the WHO process and really, you know, we prepare scorecards so that?

we are, you know, looking at comparing candidates to scorecards.

Jonathan Hawkins: I love that, so, okay, so for the people out there that say, Hey, I gotta fill the spot, man, I'm so busy. I may not find a hell yes. I just gotta find somebody. What would you say to that?

Elise Buie: I, I mean, that's okay in that that's gonna happen, but be prepared for that to blow up, you know, that person to just resign on a dime or you know, whatever, which is okay. That's part of the growth process too. I mean, I can't tell you how many people I have had through the years that I have brought on, where at some point I asked myself, I'm like, huh, this person is really not a cultural fit.

My COO will start hearing about them. Like, you know, they'll hear me mention them multiple times and she's like, oh, somebody is heading to the toleration list. And you know, it's a little bit of a joke, but it's, I mean, when we realize somebody is misaligned culturally, we realize it's not good for them and it's not good for us.

And so really the best thing I can do is put 'em on my toleration list. Have very frank conversations with them about whatever the expectations are, what's going on, have good coaching and support, you know, to see if there's anything we can do. You know? 'cause like if I have improperly brought somebody on that is not a culture fit, like, I mean, sometimes I owe them an apology, you know, I'm like, whoopsy, you know, this was probably not right from the beginning.

Jonathan Hawkins: So, you know, I think anybody that's run a firm long, long enough, you know, culture, the importance of culture and culture fit and values and all that really becomes extremely evident.

Elise Buie: Oh.

Jonathan Hawkins: But it's not always that way in the beginning maybe it was for you all the way, but how long did it take you to sort of figure that out and figure out the culture and how important it was?

Whereas I think before I, again, it was my fault, I would feel bad and I would be like, here I is this person applying. And they're a lovely person and they're, you know, got the skills and, but I mean, they can be the most lovely person in the world with the skills, but if they are not a culture fit, and in our firm, being a remote firm has this very unique thing.

I mean, one, you better be very tech savvy. You know, you need to be able to deal with things, resolve things like figure things out. But two, this is probably the most important thing. You have to take the unfettered flexibility that we give you and literally turn that with the most highest personal responsibility because no one is watching over you every minute.

Jonathan Hawkins: And you mentioned sort of the remote firm. You know, obviously hiring is the first key. But how do you promote the culture and and the comradery in a remote firm? And it's a challenge. I mean, it is. And you gotta learn how to do it and figure it out. And any tips you have would be greatly appreciated.

Elise Buie: Yeah, well, it's funny.

Jonathan Hawkins: To others.

We do quarterly leadership retreats. We do a firm potluck once a year. We do all kinds of things on Zoom, where we have connection hour. We, you know, do random events where we do arts and crafts. We do cooking classes, we've done yoga classes together, like just a variety of different things. Then we also just do random small things where, you know, somebody might go host a lunch in Seattle, like maybe there's a few people gonna be around.

So it definitely takes intentionality for sure. But I guess I don't think of it as, I feel like I have to do the same intentional things even if I was in an office. 'cause it's pretty easy for the. The owner to be pretty removed from a lot of things, even when they share an office.

Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah, you get busy doing stuff, that's for

Elise Buie: Oh yeah.

Jonathan Hawkins: So another cool thing you do, at least when we first talked a while back is you have a, it's a 30 hour work week, but you pay for 40. What you, what, what do you call that and how did you, where did that come from?

Blah, blah, blah. And so it's funny because this year at the potluck, I did not announce anything. So I was like, okay, I won't get myself in trouble this year. But interestingly, since we announced it last year, then we beta tested it. We had one of our paralegals who is kind of loves data and loves to dig in on all those things.

She agreed to be our beta tester and literally let us pull down our hours, week over week, track all her KPIs. You know, it was a true like. Let's test. And then we got a lot of feedback from?

her around what worked, what didn't, how we could make it better. And so then we were able to roll it out in January.

You know, like, I don't know. To me as a young lawyer, if someone had given me back my 10 hours, I would've been like, oh, that is sweet. Like, I would've taken that and been like, I'll become way more efficient.

Jonathan Hawkins: Well, it's funny, it's like the opposite of every other law firm. Every other law firm. Law firm is 60, is the new 40,

Elise Buie: right? Exactly. Yeah. No, I mean, it's funny, but and I, I mean, I laugh about it, but like just yesterday there was a couple here, you know, one of the paralegals and her husband, and when they left yesterday, they were leaving to go on a hike. And they were just talking about how she has been just completely transformed by this.

So I mean, we bonus people based on KPIs that are more related to behavior. Like how do they provide feedback to their team members? How do they receive feedback? How do they provide unreasonable hospitality to our clients to each other? And So that's how people get bonuses rather than just like. You know, create this billing churn.

Jonathan Hawkins: So that's cool. So how do you measure that? How do you measure that for, for bonus purposes?

And then same with like you know, feedback and we have one KPI now related to really celebrating your team members, like really giving kudos when you know those are warranted. 'cause I find we sometimes, me included big time, like there's me pulling out my mirror again. I forget to say when people do a great job.

You know what I mean? And so we've decided to put a KPI on that. So we encourage people to look for when people are doing a good job, you know, and really call it out. I mean, kind of like, you know, when you have kids, they really teach you, you gotta look for the good behavior rather than just only pick out the bad behavior.

Jonathan Hawkins: So, okay, so let's say somebody does do that recognition who records it, the person that does it, or the person that received it. How, how are you making sure that you

Elise Buie: The,

Jonathan Hawkins: track of that stuff?

I mean, we are really kind of crazy, like probably a little over the top, crazy about using Clio as our shared brain for all things so that, you know, like VAs can go in and track all these metrics and I can go in and look at matters and see, you know, everyone, one of our metrics is Clio Hygiene, we call it.

So I should be able to see the most recent communication, and it should not be older than two weeks on every matter. So, you know, at a minimum I can go in or somebody can go in and triage things pretty successfully without missing a beat. I mean, let's say we missed two weeks, but I mean, we don't, because we track other things, but you know what I mean?

Worst case scenario, you would be in a little two week window where you're like, oh, I don't know what happened last week. And that's a lot easier to handle than, you know. Where a lot of people's case management PR practices are, and they're like, I got no idea what's going on in this case. And we, you know, like everything else, I mean, we had an experience where I had an attorney go on emergency medical maternity leave on a dime.

So you can imagine how cute that was. And after that, this girl was like, oh yeah, we're never doing that again. Like.

Jonathan Hawkins: wow. So, okay, so when you say like, back to the, the sort of the, you know, they, they make a, a a public call out, something good, somebody did. How do you record that in clue? I'm curious. Is it a time entry, is it a note? Is it.

Jonathan Hawkins: Nice. I like that.

Real quick. Thanks for listening. If you're getting any value out of this podcast, please take two seconds to hit the subscribe button and leave a five star review. It would really mean a lot to me. Now back to the show.

Jonathan Hawkins: So another thing I like, I went and looked at your website. It's real. I really like it. That's a cool website.

Elise Buie: Oh, thanks.

And I'm curious what those two roles do and maybe what's the difference between them.

Elise Buie: Yeah, well, the client hospitality role is definitely a pretty unique role and it's a newish role in our office. Like, I mean probably in the last 18 months I'm not gonna remember exactly when she switched from one role to the other. But that role is very much geared towards how do we provide truly unreasonable hospitality to our both potential clients, but also current clients.

You know, there's a lot of things. So we have used it and we've just recently developed a preventative part of this. So like if a legal pod in our firm feels like they have a client that is like kind of really struggling or having problems, maybe they're complaining about their bill or they're not understanding something and they ask.

You know, multiple times they will send it, the legal pod will send it in the preventative feedback loop so then we can watch it and we can pay attention to it. And so our unreasonable hospitality coordinator, she might call that person and be like, you know, what can I help you with? Because none of her work obviously is ever billable.

Whereas I'm not saying the legal teams won't be as patient, but they've got so much more pressure, you know, to get the workout. And I mean, you know, lawyers. They have to be in court or be in mediation. And when they're answering a question, you know, for the 17th time they're not billing the client for that.

You know, like, they're like, huh, I have not said this very well. You know, like, what can I do better here? But that becomes a real tension, you know, of them getting their work done. And so we have found that having this unreasonable hospitality role has been very powerful in addressing problems both preventatively, but then also after the fact problems where somebody might be angry about something and they're like, you know, I wanna talk to Elise.

She's gonna start like an a little investigation. She's gonna dig in with the legal team, she's gonna dig in with the billing team, you know, get and collect all her information. She's gonna make a recommendation about what she thinks, you know, should happen to address whatever the issue is. And then she's either gonna determine, you know, oh, I got this, I can handle it myself.

We can do it quicker, you know, because all this background work is happening and then any follow-up just gets put on my calendar and I can have those communications and help navigate whatever the problem is. I mean, to be honest, most things get resolved without me, so it's not and again, that's another thing that I was really bad at.

I mean, I feel like this could be a whole podcast on all the things Elise is bad at, but um, when somebody would call me and they would be angry, I would just be like, oh, well let's just give 'em a full refund. I mean, every time. And my billing person one time was like, well, Elise, are you actually like doing anything wrong or are you giving them a refund?

Like, you know, or did they just lose and they're upset, you know, with you? And, and you know, one time she asked me, she goes, do you tell them they're all gonna win? And I'm like, no, of course not. We can't do that. Like, we can't guarantee results. And she was like, well then that's just part of the deal, you know?

And so, but it's hard. I think as the owner, at least it was for me, you know, to listen to upset people and not just immediately be like, just give them the money. Like this will be easier and I'll just go deal with whatever I gotta go deal with. Whereas now it is a much more thoughtful process and you know, it's just, it got my emotions out of it and, you know.

They're probably not the right person to do it. And I mean, you've probably found these people just want somebody to listen to Completely. yell, and scream for a while, right.

Elise Buie: A hundred percent. A hundred percent. And if they really need to yell and scream even more, you know, I am willing to hop on and listen to that because I, and You know, I mean, so much of what we deal with is people who are just in fear. I mean, real, genuine fear for their family, their money. I mean, we are dealing with kids and money.

Like those are some important things to people.

Elise Buie: Criminal law, personal injury, anytime that you're really dealing with the public, you know, that kind of has a. Like they're faced with the legal process that they might not understand. I mean, I've worked with personal injury attorneys who have put it in place, And it has been game changing to have those deeper conversations about the medical stuff, what's going on, what kind of trouble are they having, you know, getting into their doctor or getting, you know, help.

And then a lot of times that unreasonable hospitality coordinator can help with that. You know, they might be able to let the attorney know like, oh, you know, this is why we're having to wait on this and you know, this is what's going on. It just gives so much more depth and nuance to the communication with the client, which if you ask me, that's always a win.

Jonathan Hawkins: And you mentioned working with other attorneys. Maybe that's a good segue. So you also, in addition to, you know, building and running this firm you're, you're a consultant to lawyers as well, so maybe, what sort of, what do you do there and how did you get into that?

Elise Buie: Hmm. Well I got into it randomly because I decided to just put a post out and I was like, I'm gonna do consulting. And I, you know, I thought like maybe one or two people would reach out, but I was a little bit wrong about that. And so we got a lot of interest and I was like, oh, okay. So even with that, I would say again, Elise and her mistake making, again, I am not the right consultant for people who are not willing to do the real work.

Like, let's just be serious. I mean, I could probably name 10 problems in my office right now and explain to you how they tie back to me. You know? And it's like, okay, but without realizing that you're just playing this game of pointing your finger out the window at other people, and the same mistakes just repeat over and over again.

I mean, I make a lot of mistakes, but often they're new mistakes. You know? Like I'm like, oh look, here's a new one we haven't done before. And I'm like, yippee, something else for me to learn.

Elise Buie: Well, I mean my favorite clients are family law firm client, you know, family law firm attorney owners just because it's what I know the best. So, you know, it's just, and a billable our model in the sense of that was probably one of our biggest revelations, was understanding the leaky bucket of our billing engine and really being able to plug that leaky bucket.

And that would almost be a whole another podcast, but helping people understand how to ensure that they are in fact billing on invoices, the amount that they say and they think they are based on what they're paying their people. And so, I mean, we were able to plug about a $700,000 leak a few years ago, and it kind of revolutionized everything.

Like I am not the person who's gonna just tell somebody what they want to hear, just so we can like, stay friendly and cozy and whatever. Like if I actually think you're not doing the work and you're not trying, and you're not whatever, I'm not gonna keep taking your money. I'm gonna tell you like, I am not the right person for you.

You should go find somebody else who's just gonna tell you, yay, you, you're doing great, even though you're not doing anything. And so because I, I am a firm believer in this work we're doing as law firm owners, it is hard. I mean, it is just plain hard. You should be getting a benefit from your firm and it should be a genuine benefit.

We run it against those financial controls. Like we are, like, if we start creeping up in our people costs or, you know, creeping up in our operations cost, I mean, we are gonna catch it immediately and I'm gonna be like, what? Why, what are we doing? You know, what is the trade off here and, you know, what are we doing instead?

Jonathan Hawkins: Have you always been a data person or is this something that you developed over time?

Elise Buie: Yeah, it's something I developed. I mean, I've always liked numbers. Like I've always liked math, you know, like as a younger person, I liked math. I actually thought I was gonna be a biomedical engineer. But I got to like that fourth level of calculus and I was like, woo hoo. Can't do that anymore. So, I had to.

Yeah. Yeah.

Jonathan Hawkins: calculus. Yeah.

Elise Buie: So I changed that. So, but I, I realized as I was coming along in this journey, I mean, I read Brooke Lively's book From Panic to Profit, and I think that book spoke to me. And then also Greg Crabtree's book, I think it's called Like Small Numbers, big Profits or Big Profits, small Numbers, I can't remember.

So I have to like, save money every pay period to pay those payrolls, you know, when no revenue is coming in. I'm so slow on the uptake. I didn't do that for the longest time, and it was such a struggle. And now I'm like, you know, got a whole system. I know exactly what I save every week. I, I know what gets in those savings.

Like I know what's happening and I build it in our forecast.

Jonathan Hawkins: Boring and financially secure is a lot better than excited and barely making ends meet. So,

Elise Buie: It is to me for sure at this stage of the, of the game. Maybe when I was 25, I don't know, maybe I would go for the more excitement, but in the 55 ish range, I'm like, I'll take boring and financially secure all day long.

Jonathan Hawkins: So, so back to the coaching thing. So do you have a limit on how many folks you work with at a time? I

Elise Buie: I do.

Jonathan Hawkins: does that work? So if somebody's out there listening and they say, Hey, I like what Elisa's saying, I, I'm hiring her today. I mean, what, what's the process there?

I feel like I can help them and they're getting something of value from it. So but you know, we have like a fee agreement just setting up, you know, some basic things and then we can move forward. I mean, right now I don't have any openings like today. I mean, I've been working with some people pretty consistently since I started.

But then I've had a couple come and go, you know, so that I've opened up two spaces or three spaces. But yeah, and I definitely limit it because I do offer. Unlimited, like email, text, phone, kind of communication. So if people are having things happening, I want them to feel like they can reach out to me right away in the moment.

And so that is something that I very much want to keep is that tight one-on-one thing where people will, you know, they'll be like, I'm interviewing the attorney now. Like, you know, they've said they want this, you know, and I'll be like, well, I'll run some quick numbers for you while you're in your interview, you know, and I'm able to run an ROI on that employee that maybe what they've asked for and you know, give them some guidance on that.

Jonathan Hawkins: So you've been, you've been running your firm for a while. You've been coaching other lawyers and helping them run their firms. Are there any top lessons to other law firm owners out there perhaps, that you think

Elise Buie: Absolutely.

Jonathan Hawkins: focus on?

Because until you have your books where you understand them, I mean, you're literally flying your plane blind. I mean, forget flying it while you're building it, which we all joke about. I mean, you have a blindfold on while you're building it. And it is, it is so critical to understanding what you're doing.

And I mean, you will find so many leaky buckets in your firm if you deeply understand your p and l.

Jonathan Hawkins: Such great advice. So we've been going at it for a while. I want to ask, ask all my guests this. You've got your coaching business, you've got your law firm. You got your personal stuff as you look forward for the next 10, 15, 20 years, what's the vision? What's next?

Jonathan Hawkins: I love the mystery. You got me. You got me. So we're gonna have to get you back on once, once it's happened, you're gonna have to, then you can tell

Elise Buie: A absolutely.

Elise Buie: Probably just reach out to my email and I'm sure we can put that in the podcast notes, but it's a EliseB@elisebuiefamilylaw.com and I would be happy to talk to anybody. I'm really kind of an open book, so sometimes people reach out and they just want to see like, what report do you have, what do you do?

How do you measure this? How do you do this? I'm happy to share those things.

Jonathan Hawkins: Awesome. Well, again, thank you for coming on. It's been awesome.

Elise Buie: Yeah, thank you and I hope you have a great rest of your day.

Jonathan Hawkins: You too.