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102. Carbon Negative and Climate Beneficial: The Future of Sustainable Apparel with Edzard van der Wyck of Sheep Inc.
Episode 10229th July 2022 • The Good Dirt: Sustainability Explained • Lady Farmer
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Edzard van der Wyck is the co-founder of Sheep Inc., a sustainable apparel company that creates carbon negative knitwear made from merino wool. Sheep Inc's revolutionary approach starts at the source - the farm! Their partnership with regenerative farms in New Zealand and innovative manufacturing processes allow them to maintain a carbon negative status from sheep to sweater.

In this episode, we talk about the impact of the fashion industry on our climate, how Sheep Inc was born, why they chose to start at the raw materials, regenerative sheep wool farms and how they work, and why carbon neutral goals are not enough. We also discuss how we can collectively shift to a more sustainable economy as a whole, and Edzard's hope for what the future of purchasing looks like.

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Podchaser, Podtail, Youtube, or on your favorite podcast platform.

Topics Covered:

  • The impact of the fashion industry on our climate
  • Sheep Inc's innovative manufacturing process
  • Regenerative sheep farming in New Zealand
  • Why carbon neutral goals are not enough
  • How Sheep Inc maintains its carbon negative status
  • Sustainably dyeing their garments
  • How Sheep Inc avoids waste or deadstock in their manufaturing
  • The future of transparency and shopping sustainably
  • How social pressure may have a role in a more sustainable future
  • The true cost of fashion, and our perceived value of apparel
  • The durability of natural fibers
  • Why transparency is important, but may not be enough in the future

Resources Mentioned: 

About Lady Farmer:

Original music by John Kingsley @jkingsley1026

Statements in this podcast have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration and are not to be considered as medical or nutritional advice. This information is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease, and should not be considered above the advice of your physician. Consult a medical professional when making dietary or lifestyle decisions that could affect your health and well being.

Transcripts

Emma Kingsley:

You're listening to the good dirt podcast.

Emma Kingsley:

This is a place where we dig into the nitty gritty of sustainable living

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through food, fashion, and lifestyle.

Mary Kingsley:

And we are your hosts, Mary and Emma Kingsley, the mother and

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daughter, founder, team of Lady Farmer.

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We are sewing seeds of slow living through our community platform

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events and online marketplace.

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We started this podcast as a means to share the wealth of

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information and quality conversations that we're having in our world.

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As we dream up and deliver ways for each of us to live into the new paradigm.

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One that is regenerative balanced and whole.

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We want to put the microphone in front of the voices

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that need to be heard the most right now, the farmers, the dreamers,

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the designers, and the doers.

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So come cultivate a better world with us.

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We're so glad you're here now.

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Let's dig in.

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Hello, mom.

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Do you wanna tell us where you are joining us from today?

Mary Kingsley:

Yes, I am at Locals.

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It's a restaurant here in Poolsville Maryland, our little town, and I'm I'm

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here at this wonderful coffee shop with this wonderful coffee and local food...

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breakfast lunch, you can eat inside, outside.

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You can bring your dog.

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You can see everybody in town.

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It's so much fun.

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I'm here because they have good internet.

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And David has so kindly allowed me to come here and record.

Emma Kingsley:

Yeah.

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So internet companies, if you're listening, , we'd love to get

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some internet put in at the farm.

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That'd be great.

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It'll be great.

Emma Kingsley:

So I can't believe July is almost over happy birthday mom.

Mary Kingsley:

Oh yeah.

Mary Kingsley:

I almost forgot.

Emma Kingsley:

I hope that you had a great birthday and yeah.

Emma Kingsley:

So what's been going on this summer here at the good dirt.

Mary Kingsley:

Well, it's been a really eventful summer, as you know, and others

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who have been listening, we launched our new voicemail communication system last

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month, and that has been so much fun.

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This allows anyone at any time to reach out, call, leave us a message.

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Thank you so much to all of you.

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Who've called in to say hello, where you're calling from, what

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the good dirt means to you.

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Just really anything you wanna say about the good dirt, sustainability,

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the episodes, anything you have to offer us in terms of you and the good dirt

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episode, or really anything at all.

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Thank you all for being so positive and affirming about the show!

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We look forward to hearing from more of you and call it any time.

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443-459-1950.

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The number is in the show notes and in our bio on Instagram, hopefully it's easy to

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find, and this is a great way to support the show because it just lets us know

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who's listening and what's up out there.

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And also the very best way to support the show is by joining our membership.

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It's a slow living network where we publish a ton of content every

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Memberships directly support production of this show.

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Your membership is still crucial in making sure that this show happens every week.

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So we appreciate you so much.

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We welcome several new members into the ALMANAC this month, and we're so happy to

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have you and so grateful for your support.

Mary Kingsley:

Yes.

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And if you're a regular listener here, you'll also know that we just

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celebrated our 100th episode landmark.

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And this has given us the opportunity to look back and reflect on why we're

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doing this and why we wanna keep doing it, because it seems to be reaching

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more and more people who want these conversations and this information.

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And because I think more and more people out there are not only feeling

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the need for this shift towards a better way for all of us to live

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with each other and on the planet.

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But also because.

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They wanna know how to do it.

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to move in a better direction.

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And just week after week, we bring you conversations with people

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And it's just really been such a great adventure.

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So if you wanna keep hearing from us of the good

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dirt, join us in the Almanac.

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We thank you so much.

Mary Kingsley:

Okay.

Mary Kingsley:

So before we get into today's episode, I wanna give a shout out

Mary Kingsley:

to an organization that we follow.

Mary Kingsley:

And if you've listened for a while, you would've heard us talking about it.

Mary Kingsley:

It's plastic free July, which is a global movement that helps millions of people be

Mary Kingsley:

part of the solution to plastic pollution by offering a challenge every July to

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reduce the plastic use in your life.

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So even though July is almost over this year, we wanna direct you to

Mary Kingsley:

their website, plasticfreejuly.org.

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It's full of all kinds of great information and tips on reducing

Mary Kingsley:

the use of plastic in your life.

Mary Kingsley:

Even beyond July, of course, because as we all know, this is something

Mary Kingsley:

that we all need to address both as individuals and collectively, as we

Mary Kingsley:

move towards a consumer driven demand for policy changes up the ladder.

Emma Kingsley:

It's interesting that plastic free July, like at one point,

Emma Kingsley:

whenever plastic free July started, it was so revolutionary that we just

Emma Kingsley:

had to confine it to one month, right?

Emma Kingsley:

Yeah.

Emma Kingsley:

Like plastic free July.

Emma Kingsley:

And now it seems like it should always lead plastic free July.

Emma Kingsley:

It's like, of

Mary Kingsley:

course it should be plastic free every day.

Mary Kingsley:

Yeah.

Mary Kingsley:

But I know we all have to start somewhere.

Mary Kingsley:

Right.

Mary Kingsley:

So what's up for today's episode Emma.

Mary Kingsley:

Today

Emma Kingsley:

we have Edzard Van Der Wyck.

Emma Kingsley:

He is the co-founder and CEO of Sheep, Inc.

Emma Kingsley:

One of the world's first carbon negative clothing brands, which is super fun.

Emma Kingsley:

And you'll learn more about that in the episode, Sheep Inc's focus

Emma Kingsley:

is on regenerative knitwear and educating the consumer on the

Emma Kingsley:

wonders of wool even in the summer.

Emma Kingsley:

So they have a full like summer of wool line, which we're really

Emma Kingsley:

excited to share with you guys.

Emma Kingsley:

And they even sent us a couple of samples from the collection.

Emma Kingsley:

It is just the most Lucious, like light wool clothing.

Emma Kingsley:

We, I got a sweater and a little like turtleneck, and it just seems crazy to

Emma Kingsley:

think about wearing wool in the summer.

Emma Kingsley:

But as you'll hear Edzard explain wool is extremely temperature

Emma Kingsley:

regulating and wonderful, and you can totally wear it in the summer.

Emma Kingsley:

And so that's kind.

Emma Kingsley:

Their mission behind this collection, which is really exciting.

Emma Kingsley:

Sheep Inc.

Emma Kingsley:

Wants to create the blueprint for the garment industry to change its

Emma Kingsley:

ways and to bring us back in touch with where our clothes come from.

Emma Kingsley:

Sounds

Mary Kingsley:

awesome.

Mary Kingsley:

So as you can imagine, we were so excited to talk to Edzard because

Mary Kingsley:

this is exactly what the good dirt is all about among other things

Mary Kingsley:

sustainable beyond sustainable clothing.

Mary Kingsley:

This is carbon negative clothing.

Mary Kingsley:

So it's really interesting stuff.

Mary Kingsley:

Really great to learn about.

Mary Kingsley:

So listen and enjoy here's Edzard Van Der Wyck from sheep Inc.

Edzard:

My name is Edzard Van Der Wyck and I'm the co-founder of a

Edzard:

fashion brand called sheep, Inc.

Edzard:

Um, that launched about end of 2019, and basically Sheep Inc really set

Edzard:

out from the get, go to redefine how you can build brands in fashion.

Edzard:

That was really our ambition from the beginning was like, what does a brand

Edzard:

of tomorrow look like in fashion?

Edzard:

If you could start with a blank sheet of paper and you had the right mindset,

Edzard:

how could you start creating garments and creating a business that would

Edzard:

have a positive impact on the future?

Edzard:

The reason for wanting to start in fashion was because it is a huge

Edzard:

contributor to the climate crisis, as you may know, but the, the statistics

Edzard:

are really damning and about eight to 12% of the CO2 impact worldwide

Edzard:

comes from basically from the fashion industry was linked back to the fashion

Edzard:

industry and that simply needs to change.

Edzard:

And unfortunately it is one of those legacy industries that

Edzard:

is not changing quick enough.

Edzard:

And so we really came in and looked at that and decided that we wanted to

Edzard:

figure out how to do things differently.

Edzard:

Specifically looking at the real impacts of fashion, which comes from

Edzard:

the supply chain, which is 97% of the impacts that scope three emissions

Edzard:

come from CO2 impact from supply chain.

Edzard:

So not actually from the companies themselves, but from

Edzard:

how they produce their garments.

Edzard:

So taking that big piece into a account I can give you the journey to Sheep Inc.,

Edzard:

I actually first really started thinking about the impact of fashion

Edzard:

in my last business, which was a, also an eCommerce business in fashion

Edzard:

and taking all those stats that I just kind of reeled off there.

Edzard:

Like what really shocked me at the time setting up that business was how

Edzard:

little awareness I suppose, that you and I had about how bad the impacts was.

Edzard:

And it took me operating within the industry to basically figure out what

Edzard:

impact the industry I was operating in.

Edzard:

Was that the damage that it was doing.

Edzard:

So taking that into account, I really decided that again, that I

Edzard:

wanted to do something different.

Edzard:

And so Sheep Inc came about through that.

Edzard:

And what we do at our core in Sheep Inc is we create knitwear.

Edzard:

That's a starting point for USWA is a great category in

Edzard:

fashion to be in it's big space.

Edzard:

It's one of the biggest kind of product categories to operate within.

Edzard:

But it is also one of the most disruptive as well within the kind

Edzard:

of like the overall fashion space.

Edzard:

So what we did is we looked at that and we said, okay, again, with this idea

Edzard:

of what would you do with a blank sheet of paper, if you're gonna set up a net

Edzard:

web brand, but in general, also, if you want to be doing things differently to

Edzard:

the fashion industry in general, how can you have a positive impact as a brand?

Edzard:

And how can you really start thinking foundationally

Edzard:

about bringing about change?

Edzard:

And so what we did is to do that, we took the traditional supply chain model in

Edzard:

fashion and turned it on its head is the putting it the way that fashion brands

Edzard:

traditionally work is if they wanna make garment, they go to a manufacturer.

Edzard:

They say, I want to create a t-shirt.

Edzard:

I want to create a sweatshirt, whatever garment you are creating.

Edzard:

After they kind of give the brief to the manufacturer, they then go

Edzard:

through a selection process and they're picking the yarns et cetera.

Edzard:

And then the government is manufactured.

Edzard:

And the huge issue with that way of manufacturing is that you lose

Edzard:

visibility very, very quickly.

Edzard:

And what then happens is that you don't necessarily know exactly where

Edzard:

your yarns are coming from you.

Edzard:

Don't for instance, always know how the yarn is being dyed, how they're

Edzard:

been treated, and going back to the raw material stage is something you

Edzard:

definitely don't have visibility on.

Edzard:

So this is the huge problem of fashion in the fact that it has

Edzard:

this huge supply chain impact.

Edzard:

The problem that sits alongside it is that people actually don't know

Edzard:

what their supply chain is doing.

Edzard:

And it just means that you have no idea as a fashion brand.

Edzard:

Majority of them is huge.

Edzard:

Majority of them don't actually know if, for instance, the raw

Edzard:

materials are causing huge amount of environmentally impacted there's

Edzard:

ethical issues in the supply chain.

Edzard:

They simply don't have that insight to be able to understand how to fix things,

Edzard:

because there is so little transparency.

Edzard:

So we looked at that and said, well, that needs to change.

Edzard:

And the only way you're gonna be able to change that is if you bring

Edzard:

a hundred percent transparency into your supply chain, because that's when

Edzard:

you know how to really understand it.

Edzard:

And the only way that you're gonna be able to do that is not by starting in the

Edzard:

manufacturing stage, which is actually by starting in reverse, or you would argue

Edzard:

in the right way, which is starting at the raw material stage and kind of working

Edzard:

your way up through the supply chain.

Edzard:

That was the model that we kind of started with.

Edzard:

We said, okay, if we want to have full control of our supply

Edzard:

chain, we need to overturn the traditional supply chain model.

Edzard:

Then knowing that we wanted to be a knitware the big question mark

Edzard:

came, then how do we create it?

Edzard:

What material should we use?

Edzard:

How should we manufacture it?

Edzard:

And how do we do so to not only get a great product quality,

Edzard:

because that is imperative.

Edzard:

And you know, you can't have a sustainable fashion brand proposition.

Edzard:

If your product's not good enough, how can you go to really, really

Edzard:

high quality product, but how can you again do so whilst having

Edzard:

positive impacts on the environment.

Edzard:

And so what we do is we very quickly figured out that we wanted to

Edzard:

use merino wool as our material.

Edzard:

The reason for that is that it's a great natural fiber.

Edzard:

It is a natural fiber, therefore it's a hundred percent biodegradable, so it

Edzard:

doesn't need any impact after it's had its life compared to a synthetic fiber, which

Edzard:

obviously stays in landfills for eons.

Edzard:

We wanted to use merino wool also because it feels great against the skin.

Edzard:

It's incredibly soft.

Edzard:

It has great technical capabilities.

Edzard:

It's very good temperature regulating, it doesn't hold any moisture.

Edzard:

Therefore, you know, if you sweat it, doesn't start to smell the garment.

Edzard:

So it has all these amazing properties to it and through those amazing

Edzard:

properties, it also means it doesn't need to be washed that often, which

Edzard:

is of course also a huge problem.

Edzard:

If you look at, for instance, a cotton, t-shirt a huge part of its impact comes

Edzard:

from fact that you need to continuously wash it after every use pretty much.

Edzard:

So knowing that was the fiber that we wanted to use, then the big question came,

Edzard:

okay, but how can we justify using it?

Edzard:

Like, can we justify using merino wool knowing that it's this great

Edzard:

fiber and how then do we turn it into a final garment in the most

Edzard:

innovatively sustainable way possible?

Edzard:

The way that we do that is from the raw material stage.

Edzard:

We got into conversations with a lot of farms.

Edzard:

And so some farms in New Zealand that really at the forefront of

Edzard:

the regenerative farming movement.

Edzard:

So really trying to figure out how they can operate in a way that again has

Edzard:

a positive impact on the environment.

Edzard:

So understanding how to kind of manage biodiversity on their land, how to

Edzard:

integrate the sheep in a way that is more holistic and sort of, kind of

Edzard:

the overall biodiversity of the farm.

Edzard:

And to basically optimize all the entire property for natural carbon sequestration.

Edzard:

And on top of that, also bringing in pieces, like making sure that all the

Edzard:

farm equipment is running electric, where possible not in diesel engines

Edzard:

and also bringing in pieces like giving the sheep seaweed supplements to cut

Edzard:

down their methane output to really, again, trying to kind of optimize

Edzard:

basically at the raw material stage for having a carbon negative impact.

Edzard:

And that was for us really a starting point.

Edzard:

We wanted to be, again, regenerative.

Edzard:

We wanted to have a carbon negative impact because the real issue again

Edzard:

with fashion is that there's a bunch of big fashion brands out there saying

Edzard:

they're gonna be carbon neutral by 2035, 2040, whatever their target is.

Edzard:

The real problem is it's only a select group of the brands

Edzard:

that are really targeting it.

Edzard:

So it's still, there's a low percentage of what's needed.

Edzard:

And on top of that, the industry is growing and having a bunch of brands here,

Edzard:

carbon neutral is not also mitigating for the impact of the rest of the industry.

Edzard:

So we looked at that and said, we want to actually have a positive CO2 impact.

Edzard:

So we actually want to be carbon

Edzard:

negative.

Emma Kingsley:

So you said you came into this through, you had an eCommerce

Emma Kingsley:

brand before this, and that's kind of when your eyes were open to sort

Emma Kingsley:

of the state of the fashion industry and how destructive it is, correct?

Edzard:

Yep.

Emma Kingsley:

So can you talk about that non sustainable eco-friendly

Emma Kingsley:

fashion venture to, was it just cuz you wanted to be more eco-friendly or

Emma Kingsley:

what was it about that shift for you personally and your sort of journey?

Edzard:

So I listen the, the first man, I said, I already, we were building

Edzard:

sustainability pieces into how we were kind of like doing things, right?

Edzard:

So the materials we were using, we were actually using a lot of recycled

Edzard:

materials and that I think the real piece for me there came, like I

Edzard:

really wanted to create an iconic, sustainable fashion brand proposition.

Edzard:

And that's not for my ego purposes, but because I just wanted to.

Edzard:

Actually set something up that could prove to the industry that

Edzard:

there's a different way of doing it.

Edzard:

And that had to start with a blank sheet of paper because you have to

Edzard:

start that with every single part of the business geared towards that.

Edzard:

Right.

Edzard:

So that was super important for me.

Edzard:

On top of that, the other big piece that I wanted to do is that I also wanted to

Edzard:

bring kind of consumer change into play.

Edzard:

So I didn't want to just kind of prove to the industry that

Edzard:

things could be done differently.

Edzard:

So I also wanted consumers to start changing the way that they're buying

Edzard:

stuff, or at least start to think about the Providence and the impact

Edzard:

behind the things that they buy.

Edzard:

And so that was really how the whole thing kind of came together.

Edzard:

It was like this kind of idea of like, okay, it has to be this very

Edzard:

sustainable fashion brand proposition.

Edzard:

And then conceptually, there also has to be something that gets

Edzard:

people to think and to understand impact and to really start to drive,

Edzard:

changing their own personal behavior.

Edzard:

And that was kind of like the meeting of those two things

Edzard:

was super important for me.

Edzard:

And I just knew that in my last brand proposition, it was just

Edzard:

like, it was an established brand.

Edzard:

At that point again, there was lots of sustainability elements being brought

Edzard:

into the business and that all the products were starting to be made from

Edzard:

recycled materials and everything for packaging, all of that, those bits and

Edzard:

pieces were being thought through, but it couldn't do something that I wanted to,

Edzard:

which was fundamentally shift consumer and the industry into a new direction.

Edzard:

This was simply, it was almost like trying to make the business

Edzard:

be sustainable rather than really start with an inherent sustainable

Edzard:

proposition that can hopefully.

Edzard:

Be seen as, as being innovative in the market.

Edzard:

So something that is kind of more proactive than being

Edzard:

reactionary to the market.

Mary Kingsley:

It's so interesting.

Mary Kingsley:

What you said that you had the realization to create a truly sustainable that

Mary Kingsley:

term sustainable versus regenerative.

Mary Kingsley:

Yep.

Mary Kingsley:

But in order to create a truly sustainable fashion business, you

Mary Kingsley:

had to start with a blank slate.

Mary Kingsley:

And that's interesting because we've talked to so many people who are doing

Mary Kingsley:

brands and working in sustainability.

Mary Kingsley:

And so.

Mary Kingsley:

And it's true that there's so many aspects of it.

Mary Kingsley:

There's so many pieces of the puzzle that if you try to approach

Mary Kingsley:

it from like the whole thing, it seems like an impossible task.

Mary Kingsley:

The supply chain, the sourcing, you know, the manufacturing, all the

Mary Kingsley:

chemicals used, all the materials used.

Mary Kingsley:

All of these things is just so vast the whole thing.

Mary Kingsley:

And then what you just said, getting the consumer on board as well.

Mary Kingsley:

So for you to say, I'm gonna start a business using a blank

Mary Kingsley:

slate and do the whole thing.

Mary Kingsley:

That's really, really ambitious.

Mary Kingsley:

It's really, really impressive.

Mary Kingsley:

And it's not what you hear.

Mary Kingsley:

You, you hear more companies saying they're gonna take this

Mary Kingsley:

piece of it or that piece of it, or that's all they can do.

Mary Kingsley:

But I think that's where Sheep Inc goes from sustainability into regeneration.

Mary Kingsley:

I want you to talk about that a little bit, cuz that is a really, really

Mary Kingsley:

important piece and what you were talking about, what you're feeding the

Mary Kingsley:

sheep and so forth because it affected the methane and all these things

Mary Kingsley:

we hear a lot about carbon neutral.

Mary Kingsley:

You guys are carbon negative.

Mary Kingsley:

So I want you to talk more about that and really let that sink into our listeners.

Mary Kingsley:

This is different.

Mary Kingsley:

This is something we haven't heard before.

Edzard:

Yeah.

Edzard:

So this, this, this sense of carbon negativity again came from

Edzard:

exactly what you talked about is that so much of the industry is

Edzard:

geared towards carbon neutrality.

Edzard:

That was a big conversation piece still is, but a couple years ago, every was

Edzard:

like, we're gonna be net zero by 2035.

Edzard:

And again, we looked at that and went.

Edzard:

That's slightly terrifying because first of all, there's only a couple

Edzard:

of brands, you know, it's yes, it may end up being 30, 35% of the industry,

Edzard:

whatever the numbers end up may being, but that's only a group of people

Edzard:

who are neutralizing their impact.

Edzard:

They're not actually in many cases improving the plans in any sense.

Edzard:

Right.

Edzard:

And so I think that for us is really important.

Edzard:

We looked at 'em and we said, well, actually there has to be this new

Edzard:

way of doing business, where again, you have a plus effect on the planet.

Edzard:

And that for us was achieved through being carbon negative.

Edzard:

And that meant that our supply chain naturally, so without buying offsets,

Edzard:

we had to set up the supply chain in a way that it like there was more

Edzard:

CO2, naturally being mitigated in our supply chain than was being produced.

Edzard:

Again.

Edzard:

Obviously we have the, sheep, the problem as it were like, that's

Edzard:

a methane producing animal.

Edzard:

And again, it produces a fiber that is natural and great in it's

Edzard:

obviously in itself, regenerative, it grows back year after year.

Edzard:

So it's an amazing fiber, but, but she was the problem in that sense.

Edzard:

So that's what we really needed to figure out at that point was like, okay, how do

Edzard:

we now take this carbon negativity piece?

Edzard:

And how do we kind of make it work within this supply chain?

Edzard:

And the way that we did that was again, by working with these farms, that really

Edzard:

their single goal is to kind of lower and get a negative carbon footprint, right?

Edzard:

And so they've optimized everything on their farms to be able to achieve that.

Edzard:

And that means every single kilogram of wool that we source from those farms,

Edzard:

which again is a select few has a minus 14 kilogram natural CO2 impact, except the

Edzard:

kilogram of raw naturally mitigates on the farm itself, minus 14 kilograms of CO2.

Edzard:

And then it became a connect, the dots exercise through the rest of the supply

Edzard:

chain, where we went, okay, we've now figured out the raw material stage, we're

Edzard:

starting with a negative carbon balance, which is of course fantastic, but we

Edzard:

now need to make sure that we don't then upset that balance as we go through the

Edzard:

rest of the supply chain, where we just start to do business as usual, and then

Edzard:

very quickly your, your footprint will.

Edzard:

So we had to then clean, you have to scour the wall, which is the next

Edzard:

stage in the supply chain process.

Edzard:

And we do that with a firm in Italy.

Edzard:

That's first B corp registered textile mill in Italy.

Edzard:

And through their processes there, they are able to, again, clean the wall in the,

Edzard:

in using renewable energy that again has no CO2 impact, but then the next part of

Edzard:

the equation is also treating the yarn which we do also in Italy and spinning it.

Edzard:

And we do in Italy and Bulgaria, where again, we don't use any harmful chemicals.

Edzard:

We use process Forter XK, which is all applied using renewable energy.

Edzard:

And then the next stage of the process is manufacturing, which we do in

Edzard:

Portugal using whole garment knitting machines, which is the easiest way

Edzard:

of explaining them as they look like giant kind of desk printers.

Edzard:

And they print out the garments, which means that they have very

Edzard:

little waste during manufacturing.

Edzard:

Because of course, normally you have cut and sew.

Edzard:

You get end up with loads, bits of material on the

Edzard:

floor, and there's a lot of.

Edzard:

Using that process, we're able to have very, very little waste

Edzard:

during the manufacturing stage.

Edzard:

And on top of that also that whole process runs on renewable energy.

Edzard:

So there's a solar panel array on the roof of our knitters runs the machines.

Edzard:

And through that whole process, we were able to have

Edzard:

a carbon negative supply chain.

Edzard:

So once you kind of added all the numbers up, we get to, for instance, for

Edzard:

hoodies amount, minus seven kilograms, CO2 E impact, and the important bit,

Edzard:

cause this is the bit that always jumps immediately into people's heads, which

Edzard:

is like, if you are getting wool from New Zealand and you are cleaning it in,

Edzard:

you're spinning it in Italy and then you are manufacturing it in Portugal,

Edzard:

how the hell can you be carbon negative?

Edzard:

And the answer to that is, and this is where it's so important for brands to do

Edzard:

is that you have to understand where the weight of your impact is coming from.

Edzard:

And in our case, the weight of the impact would've come from the raw material stage

Edzard:

transport is actually a very small part of the problem of the overall CO2 impact.

Edzard:

It is only about one and a half kilograms.

Edzard:

So I say only of course, every amount matters, right?

Edzard:

Compared to a minus 14 kilogram natural sequestration, that's happening at

Edzard:

source, one and a half kilograms is obviously more than mitigated by

Edzard:

what's happening at the farm stage.

Edzard:

Right.

Edzard:

And that's how we kind of, we calculate, it's a very data driven approach.

Edzard:

We have low impact.

Edzard:

That's totally, um, third party audited by, by various groups and

Edzard:

then held to international standards, the carbon neutral pro protocol

Edzard:

being one of them, because we want to make sure that everything we are

Edzard:

doing is also backed up by data.

Edzard:

Right.

Edzard:

Rather than it being something that is just us making bold claims, we wanna make

Edzard:

sure that there, this trust element comes in where people go like, okay, their

Edzard:

impact has been assessed by a third party.

Edzard:

They've come in, they've done the analysis of the supply chain.

Edzard:

And they're doing what they say they're doing.

Emma Kingsley:

So when you found this specifically, I guess we can

Emma Kingsley:

start with the farms in New Zealand.

Emma Kingsley:

Were they already set up this way when you found them, you just sort, you knew what

Emma Kingsley:

you were looking for and you found it, or is that sort of a collaborative process or

Emma Kingsley:

was it just sort of there for you to find

Edzard:

so the way that we came across 'em so first of all, the good thing

Edzard:

is like in New Zealand, there is farming is the biggest contributor

Edzard:

to impacts in the country, right?

Edzard:

It's a big, big problem.

Edzard:

It's obviously a big farming nation and it's unfortunately this idea, pure

Edzard:

New Zealand and the big kind lag that they're doing back up by the kind of

Edzard:

Lord rings, movies of this amazing epic majestic landscapes, and very kind of

Edzard:

clean nature, unfortunately, is coming under attack, especially due to farming.

Edzard:

Thing is like a lot of the farms realize it, that they are creating, you know,

Edzard:

they're part of an industry that is becoming increasingly problematic, but

Edzard:

a lot of the farms also really care about the environments and they care

Edzard:

about the wellbeing of their animals.

Edzard:

They care about the wellbeing of the planet.

Edzard:

They, they are inherently connected to nature.

Edzard:

They spend all day in it and they want to come up with solutions that

Edzard:

will basically help the planets rather than them being a part of the,

Edzard:

the, kind of like the vilified group of farmers that are causing harm.

Edzard:

And so what was interesting about that process is so the, the way we

Edzard:

came across them practically is we started working with a group called

Edzard:

Zuki Marino, which is group in New Zealand to really focus on having farms.

Edzard:

They have a group of farms they work with and they focus on farms that

Edzard:

have, again, animal welfare and, and biodiversity welfare, like very

Edzard:

high on their list of priorities.

Edzard:

So they have to have certain standard to be qualified for

Edzard:

what they call the ZQ program.

Edzard:

And then within that group.

Edzard:

And, and to that extent, only about 1% of cheap stations and,

Edzard:

and wall providers worldwide would even qualify for the ZQ program.

Edzard:

So it's a very high standard.

Edzard:

They actually set the standard for, um, a group called the

Edzard:

responsible wall standards.

Edzard:

Well, so they very much are kind of just class leading in their

Edzard:

approach to, to these matters.

Edzard:

But then the real question became like, okay, listen, 1% of you at

Edzard:

the farms worldwide would qualify, but what's your 1% of your 1% like

Edzard:

who really are the farms who are leading the charge for change.

Edzard:

And that's how we came across three farms.

Edzard:

Our initial three farms once again were really innovators

Edzard:

within an innovative group, right.

Edzard:

And one of them in particular is doing everything possible to make sure that

Edzard:

everything on farm is again, really, really optimized for minimal CO2 impact.

Edzard:

The extent that it sent carbon.

Edzard:

So that's how we came across them.

Edzard:

And the great thing about it was like kind of a meeting of minds, right?

Edzard:

It's like they, again, this group of people who just understand it again,

Edzard:

they, they want to make sure that their industry is no longer ified.

Edzard:

Mm-hmm they really want to be seen as people who are positive

Edzard:

contributors to the planet rather than, as, as again, being the enemy.

Edzard:

So they're very much driven by that.

Edzard:

And that was for us kind of an ideal partner then to meet up with.

Edzard:

Yeah.

Emma Kingsley:

Okay.

Emma Kingsley:

So then going down the supply chain, we're also interested in, especially for this,

Emma Kingsley:

your summer wool collection, which we'll also talk more about wearing wool in the

Emma Kingsley:

summer, but the colors are just amazing.

Emma Kingsley:

They're fun and bright and different, and curious about the dying

Emma Kingsley:

process and what that looks like.

Emma Kingsley:

And I think that's something that.

Emma Kingsley:

Also kind of a mystery to people, how clothes get to be certain colors.

Emma Kingsley:

Yeah,

Edzard:

so we, we use a dying process.

Edzard:

It's all blue sign certified.

Edzard:

So it means that no hazardous chemicals can be used.

Edzard:

And the most important thing with the dying process is water filtration, right?

Edzard:

So you get all these horrific images of dyes leaking into lakes, and you see

Edzard:

these kind of bright red, you know, kind of bright red lakes, which of course is,

Edzard:

is environmentally incredibly harmful.

Edzard:

So what we do there is that we make sure that the water filtration process

Edzard:

is such that actually the water entering into the factory is less clean

Edzard:

and the water exing the factories.

Edzard:

So they really cleanse the water of every single last drop chemical.

Edzard:

And then again, all the, the kind of the process itself is once again, blue sign

Edzard:

certified, there's no hazardous chemicals.

Edzard:

Now dying is a really interesting one because there's like a lot of we're

Edzard:

focused a lot on like what's next in dying and like bringing in really natural dyes.

Edzard:

And next thing we're working on.

Edzard:

Unfortunately at the moment, the dying industry still is you can't

Edzard:

from a real natural plant-based dive.

Edzard:

For instance, you can't get as vibrant colors.

Edzard:

As you say, we're known for our colors.

Edzard:

We spend a lot of time selecting colors, and if we choose a hue of red, like it

Edzard:

has to be very particularly hue of red.

Edzard:

We don't want to be like every other red in the industry.

Edzard:

We spend a lot of time selecting those, but figuring out

Edzard:

how to, again, move forward.

Edzard:

As we always say internally, it's a journey, never destination.

Edzard:

We're always looking to improve and dying is next.

Edzard:

Definitely next on our list to also figure out how we can get into more

Edzard:

natural dyes and get into more and more into, into kind of better dye practices.

Edzard:

We're actually also about to launch a t-shirt.

Edzard:

We just done knitted t-shirts merino wool t-shirts and we are about to launch

Edzard:

a non dye t-shirt oh, interesting.

Edzard:

Which is a white t-shirt and because New Zealand merino wool, the one that

Edzard:

the type that we use is the whitest.

Edzard:

Basically the whitest woo.

Edzard:

In the world, you can actually release an un-dyed garment.

Edzard:

It looks very close to a normal white T show.

Edzard:

So that's for us really exciting.

Edzard:

Cuz in that process, of course there's no dying at all.

Edzard:

Hmm.

Emma Kingsley:

Yeah.

Emma Kingsley:

That's fascinating.

Emma Kingsley:

So just to clarify for people who might not know the yarn is

Emma Kingsley:

dye before it's knit, right?

Emma Kingsley:

Or do you knit the garment and then dye?

Emma Kingsley:

No, no,

Edzard:

no.

Edzard:

You, you dye before it's knit.

Edzard:

So it all comes in spindles basically kind of spins of colors and then, and

Edzard:

what we've also optimized for, which is again for sustainability purposes

Edzard:

is we have a certain type of yarn it's called a 2 48 yarn, which is

Edzard:

just listen to thickness of Y yarn.

Edzard:

How many times it's been wrapped around and we've figured out a way

Edzard:

of being able to create all our garments of a single yarn type.

Edzard:

And the great thing about that is that you then again, minimize

Edzard:

the risk of having dead stock.

Edzard:

So you often, for instance, if you were to release a red t-shirt

Edzard:

as an example, And you figure out that it doesn't sell as well.

Edzard:

You would've probably started to commit to a lot of red yarn.

Edzard:

Do you know what I mean?

Edzard:

Mm-hmm by us being able to use Y yarn across all our products, we can then for

Edzard:

instance, turn it into a red beanie when you turn it into a red hoodie and we can

Edzard:

figure out multiple use cases for us.

Edzard:

And then we may figure out actually the red hoodie sells incredibly

Edzard:

well because that's, again, a huge issue in fashion in general is that

Edzard:

of course dead stock can account up to 20, 25% of the industry, right?

Edzard:

So like stock that never goes to use.

Edzard:

And so we really want to also optimize for that and, and holding

Edzard:

a single yarn type is part of that.

Edzard:

Also in another piece, we don't, you know, we're not fashion in the sense

Edzard:

that we have collections that come in and go out, collect, come in and go out.

Edzard:

We do have, we sell network essentials.

Edzard:

So it's very much around products that will have a very long shelf live.

Edzard:

They don't necessarily have an expiry date.

Edzard:

And so that means season after season, we can continue to

Edzard:

sell a hoodie in red, right?

Edzard:

It's not to be outta fashion again after one season.

Edzard:

So that also minimizes our dead stock, even see if stuff sells slower, we

Edzard:

can keep it going for a long time without having to take it off and then

Edzard:

take this on the supply basically.

Edzard:

And then also be another contributor to textile waste.

Emma Kingsley:

That makes so much sense.

Emma Kingsley:

Speaking of selling, I'm curious how the products sell and how

Emma Kingsley:

you mentioned a little bit at the beginning of the conversation about

Emma Kingsley:

communicating with the consumer.

Emma Kingsley:

Anytime you're trying to do anything ethically in this space,

Emma Kingsley:

it's going to obviously cost more money, which is just kind of a.

Emma Kingsley:

Fact a truth that we, as we produced and manufactured a line of clothing early on

Emma Kingsley:

a few years ago, and we actually found that our strength was in the education

Emma Kingsley:

piece of it, which is an hour podcast.

Emma Kingsley:

So we do like about it.

Emma Kingsley:

So it was a great learning experience for us.

Emma Kingsley:

So I just love to talk about it with other brands who are trying

Emma Kingsley:

to sell, do the right thing and this economy, you know what I mean?

Emma Kingsley:

Yes.

Emma Kingsley:

Yes.

Emma Kingsley:

So I guess I'm just curious what you think resonates with customers, what

Emma Kingsley:

people are buying and like why it can really feel like an uphill battle.

Emma Kingsley:

Sometimes I know it seems so silly that the answer to so many problems.

Emma Kingsley:

Could be, if we all just wrap our heads around the fact that we might

Emma Kingsley:

need one, $300 sweater to replace a closet full of sweaters, we don't need.

Emma Kingsley:

Yeah.

Emma Kingsley:

But that's just like so hard to wrap our brains around.

Emma Kingsley:

So yeah.

Emma Kingsley:

I don't know what you wanna say about that.

Emma Kingsley:

Anything, but I love this conversation.

Emma Kingsley:

Yeah.

Edzard:

This, I think value is the, the big piece that, that kind

Edzard:

of emergence of fast fashion has changed our perception on value.

Edzard:

Right?

Edzard:

And it's your point?

Edzard:

Like you can buy, yes, you can buy a $20 sweater, but the value that you

Edzard:

will get out of that will be so much less because obvious, quality's not

Edzard:

that gray often, it's kind of, it'll be more of a trend driven piece.

Edzard:

Therefore potentially won't wear it after a few wears and the stats are out there,

Edzard:

but it's five to seven times per garment.

Edzard:

You know, the people only wear garments five to seven times

Edzard:

before trucking them away.

Edzard:

So I think that sense of value is massively shifted when it comes

Edzard:

to the emergence of fast fashion.

Edzard:

And I think that's a bit that we almost need to do a sense check on is

Edzard:

that - you cannot be selling things that price level without harming something,

Edzard:

you know, and that is often ethical.

Edzard:

It often comes down to how they source materials and the

Edzard:

quality of the materials as well.

Edzard:

You know, kind of the durability of the quality, all those things have an impact.

Edzard:

And I think that's the bit we need to realize, n understand that will

Edzard:

be out of the price range for some.

Edzard:

But I think in general, this sense of value perception has to change, you know,

Edzard:

because yes, you can keep on buying stuff for $20, but it's gonna, it has such a

Edzard:

detrimental impact on the planet that by the way, that particular chicken will

Edzard:

come home to roo at some point, right.

Edzard:

You know, as weather starts to damage more and more, our planets and our

Edzard:

homes, et cetera, that's gonna have to.

Edzard:

Be paid somehow, you know, we're gonna have to put money towards all this

Edzard:

damage that's being caused and that will eventually come out of one's tax dollars.

Edzard:

And I think that's really important to also understand is that idea of impact,

Edzard:

it may not be, you know, that $20 garment that you bought cheaply is going to impact

Edzard:

things down the line and is going to have a destructive component to it that

Edzard:

is going to cause more environmental, but also more financial damage.

Emma Kingsley:

Totally.

Emma Kingsley:

It's that term, that documentary of the same name, The True Cost.

Emma Kingsley:

So in business, the true cost of something is sort of what doesn't make the line

Emma Kingsley:

sheet that for whatever reason has been determined, that it's not, doesn't need

Emma Kingsley:

to be calculated into the cost, but that's sort of what we've done with basically

Emma Kingsley:

our entire like consumer culture is we're not considering the true cost of things.

Emma Kingsley:

And, um, I think that's kind of what you were just saying.

Emma Kingsley:

Yes.

Emma Kingsley:

You said

Edzard:

that in a far more concise paper than, oh no.

Edzard:

That's great.

Edzard:

And I think, you know, also nose brands are not penalized for it, right?

Edzard:

That's the, kind of also the crazy part of it.

Edzard:

It's like, there's no checks and balances for brands who are doing that.

Edzard:

I

Mary Kingsley:

wanted to ask you Edzard where do you think consumers are on this?

Mary Kingsley:

Do you think we're making progress on the whole thing about our own consumer

Mary Kingsley:

Shifts are gonna be key in really creating the new industry, the new

Mary Kingsley:

paradigm where we can move forward without just destroying our planetary

Mary Kingsley:

health and our personal health.

Mary Kingsley:

And what do you see are good signs that people are beginning to catch on?

Mary Kingsley:

If they are.

Edzard:

I think there is a shift happening.

Edzard:

I think COVID accelerated things.

Edzard:

I think there was a real shift.

Edzard:

Now it's slowed down a tiny bit and people are regressing a bit.

Emma Kingsley:

Mm-hmm

Edzard:

uh, I do think people are becoming more aware and

Edzard:

what I hope and I also do believe is that sustainability will be the

Edzard:

first disqualifying factor in like is a brand sustainable or not.

Edzard:

And then I'll make my decision on what I want, you know, but

Edzard:

if a brand's not sustainable, then I won't even consider it.

Edzard:

And I think that's why the industry will have to shift towards that.

Edzard:

But I think the real question for me is like, how quickly will that moment come?

Edzard:

And will it be when kind of like the ocean is our doorstep or

Edzard:

somewhere and will it be too late?

Edzard:

They're encouraging signs.

Edzard:

And a lot of the stats are pointing to the fact that people do care,

Edzard:

whether it happens quick enough.

Edzard:

I mean, we, we all know it's already too late and I do worry that the time

Edzard:

unfortunately is passing, but yeah, hopefully stuff does continue to change

Emma Kingsley:

going back really quickly to the costing and the

Emma Kingsley:

price stuff I've been thinking about this so much, just because...

Emma Kingsley:

well, I guess I'm in the phase of my life, you know, I have

Emma Kingsley:

friends that are purchasing homes and just general inflation.

Emma Kingsley:

I don't know how it is in the UK right now, but in the states

Emma Kingsley:

it's just crazy inflation.

Emma Kingsley:

Yeah.

Emma Kingsley:

Yeah.

Emma Kingsley:

With the lack of raise in wages.

Emma Kingsley:

And it's just so crazy.

Emma Kingsley:

So I really do think, and this might be like philosophical, but the way

Emma Kingsley:

that we think about what things cost and how we spend our money, it

Emma Kingsley:

is a certain set of programming.

Emma Kingsley:

And like, for example, to use the property purchasing analogy, it's

Emma Kingsley:

totally normal to buy a several hundred thousand dollars piece of property

Emma Kingsley:

or whatever, or a house or apartment.

Emma Kingsley:

And then even if you can't afford.

Emma Kingsley:

And you take on a certain amount of, and then you just sort of resign,

Emma Kingsley:

like that's the system like, you're like, okay, then I'm gonna spend

Emma Kingsley:

the next 30 years paying this off.

Emma Kingsley:

And then there's no way in your head to do the math of interest or whatever you

Emma Kingsley:

just sort of, the bank sort of tells you a number that's cost every day.

Emma Kingsley:

Mm-hmm . I think it's kind of similar to how we've reasoned in our heads.

Emma Kingsley:

Like, yeah, I can go buy a $20, even a $50, even a hundred dollars sweater, like

Emma Kingsley:

a $100 sweater that I think looks cool.

Emma Kingsley:

It's a hundred dollars, but it's not 300, you know, whatever mm-hmm and I might

Emma Kingsley:

wear it a couple years but like for whatever reason, because we're not used

Emma Kingsley:

to a dollar amount and we don't understand the value yet, as you were saying, it's

Emma Kingsley:

really hard to like reason in our minds.

Emma Kingsley:

And so I think that's sort of what has to happen is we just have to

Emma Kingsley:

think about buying differently and why we are buying things.

Emma Kingsley:

How often and who wears, it's like a totally different set of criteria, as

Emma Kingsley:

you were also saying mm-hmm , hopefully people will figure out, oh, if I don't

Emma Kingsley:

agree with the values of the brand, I'm not buying from them in general.

Emma Kingsley:

But-

Mary Kingsley:

Part of it is, um, you talk about , the houses in the apartments,

Mary Kingsley:

you know, the cost of living in these, the cities just keeps going up and up and

Mary Kingsley:

everybody's going, where will this stop?

Mary Kingsley:

And the thing with in fashion is , there's this alternative, there's this cheap

Mary Kingsley:

fashion existing system that gives someone the answer to that problem.

Mary Kingsley:

They don't have to buy a $300 sweater cuz they can buy the $20 sweater.

Mary Kingsley:

Big box.

Mary Kingsley:

Yeah.

Mary Kingsley:

That's that's true.

Mary Kingsley:

But the thing is we don't have the messaging.

Mary Kingsley:

I mean, we're all working very hard on the messaging.

Mary Kingsley:

Obviously companies like yours, sheep Inc.

Mary Kingsley:

And you know, this podcast and our company, lady farmer, we produced

Mary Kingsley:

a line of clothing as well.

Mary Kingsley:

When we first started out.

Mary Kingsley:

This is the messaging.

Mary Kingsley:

This is, this is why we're doing this.

Mary Kingsley:

And you're asking why it costs so much.

Mary Kingsley:

And we're so glad you're asking this because this is why.

Mary Kingsley:

And we give all these reasons, all these things we've been talking about

Mary Kingsley:

this whole hour, but the question I think, and none of us here knows,

Mary Kingsley:

but is this messaging enough?

Mary Kingsley:

It is just such a, a behemoth of a thing.

Mary Kingsley:

And as you just said, Edzard, you know, in many ways it looks like, I don't

Mary Kingsley:

know, we're already behind the eight ball and can we catch up, but we don't

Mary Kingsley:

wanna be like all dooms day and stuff.

Mary Kingsley:

And we don't wanna tell people there's really nothing you can do.

Mary Kingsley:

So go ahead and buy that $20 sweater.

Mary Kingsley:

We want people to feel like they have a agency in this.

Mary Kingsley:

Somehow.

Edzard:

I also think that it, it becomes about being it's

Edzard:

the good citizen piece, right?

Edzard:

I think it comes about how am I being perceived wearing this mm-hmm how

Edzard:

am I being perceived driving this?

Edzard:

How am I being perceived, acting in a certain way.

Edzard:

And I think that's where hopefully, this kind of idea of, of wearing fast fashion

Edzard:

and wearing, you know, synthetic fibers that becomes more and more something that

Edzard:

is slightly looked down upon, or , all seen as being problematic to be like here

Edzard:

in London, people driving around and mega diesel Range Rovers, you know, and just no

Edzard:

need in London to driving a range Rover, especially one that pumps out diesel.

Edzard:

And I think that shift hopefully starts to come a bit into fashion as well.

Edzard:

The food industry is the same, right?

Edzard:

Where you have this kind of like checks and balance system that's now starting

Edzard:

to more and more take place when you buy.

Edzard:

You do tend to kind of want to understand where does it come from?

Edzard:

You kind of want to understand if you are not vegan, like,

Edzard:

am I getting free range eggs?

Edzard:

Because you have this image of, you know, horrible kind of battery chicken, egg

Edzard:

conditions, and you start to bring that thinking into your behavior piece because

Edzard:

you don't want to impact you don't want to hurt the battery chicken, even as it were.

Edzard:

Right.

Edzard:

You wanna understand that it's a happy chicken and I think

Edzard:

that's the personal piece.

Edzard:

And then I think also from the outside in people will also , they will look at you

Edzard:

if you are not behaving in a certain way, or if you are behaving in environmentally

Edzard:

impactful way with a frown on their face.

Edzard:

Right.

Edzard:

And I think those two things hopefully become more prevalent by the way,

Edzard:

as the next generation the younger generation is already a part of it.

Edzard:

It's like, you know, they are against the actions of the older

Edzard:

generation, you know, and probably in some ways also massively.

Edzard:

Driving the generation above them to, especially with their parents

Edzard:

to also start thinking about these things, you know, mm-hmm so it's a

Edzard:

very long-winded way of answering the question, but I think all these, these

Edzard:

little social dynamics is also, what's gonna have to click into place for

Edzard:

us to start behaving in a better way.

Emma Kingsley:

Yeah.

Emma Kingsley:

That's social pressure is interesting.

Emma Kingsley:

It's also complicated because there's also the defense, which we've come up against

Emma Kingsley:

a lot, which is like the perception is that you have to buy expensive

Emma Kingsley:

things to be environmentally friendly.

Emma Kingsley:

And it's like, that's not what it is either.

Emma Kingsley:

It's sort of outside of our current understanding.

Emma Kingsley:

I think that's, what's so hard about it is that brands like yours

Emma Kingsley:

and people who think like us, we're sort of talking about these things.

Emma Kingsley:

They're kind of old new ideas.

Emma Kingsley:

Mm-hmm, , let's go back to actually caring about the people who made

Emma Kingsley:

our things crazy, crazy thoughts.

Mary Kingsley:

what a concept

Mary Kingsley:

. Edzard: Yeah, but I also think it's

Mary Kingsley:

interesting one in all of this, right?

Mary Kingsley:

The Tesla is, it was an incredibly expensive car.

Mary Kingsley:

They've now kind of like bought some cheaper cars out, but it was

Mary Kingsley:

like an extremely expensive still is there model less, whatever is

Mary Kingsley:

like a really expensive offering.

Mary Kingsley:

But the big thing about it, what they have done is they've ushered

Mary Kingsley:

innovation into the space and they've ushered change into the space.

Mary Kingsley:

Therefore you can now mm-hmm, , it's coming back to that selection

Mary Kingsley:

process is like, do you want to go and buy more sustainable car?

Mary Kingsley:

You are going to go and buy an electric car and then you can

Mary Kingsley:

go, okay, now walk my for right.

Mary Kingsley:

and then you have Tesla at the, kind of like the best end of the

Mary Kingsley:

spectrum or the most innovative.

Mary Kingsley:

And then you have mm-hmm whatever kind of cheaper offerings out

Mary Kingsley:

there as well that you can go to.

Mary Kingsley:

And I think that that's gonna be the difference of brand in that case, right?

Mary Kingsley:

Is that hopefully we get to a point where a lot of the

Mary Kingsley:

brands are starting to behave.

Mary Kingsley:

You want the best quality, sustainable, you know, the kind of

Mary Kingsley:

the most innovative then potentially you go with a brand like ours.

Mary Kingsley:

If you want something that's not potentially as innovative when it comes

Mary Kingsley:

to quality or the manufacturing, but still is considered sustainable, then

Mary Kingsley:

you can go somewhere else, you know?

Mary Kingsley:

And mm-hmm, , I think that's hopefully, again, a bit what's gonna

Mary Kingsley:

happen within the fashion space and we will therefore still be a more

Mary Kingsley:

premium brand proposition in there.

Mary Kingsley:

Mm-hmm but hopefully we would've ideally also drag the rest of the industry along

Mary Kingsley:

with us also start behaving better.

Mary Kingsley:

And I would argue that.

Mary Kingsley:

Just because of our margins are actually less than a traditional fashion brand.

Mary Kingsley:

You know, I think quality wise, hopefully we will continue to

Mary Kingsley:

be kind of Excel the average.

Emma Kingsley:

Right.

Emma Kingsley:

And I'm glad you said that.

Emma Kingsley:

I would hope that people listening would understand, hope everyone listens to

Emma Kingsley:

this podcast understands that it's not expensive because you're trying to be

Emma Kingsley:

cool or you're trying to sell this idea.

Emma Kingsley:

It's literally more sustainable and ethical stuff is more expensive

Emma Kingsley:

because it costs more to make.

Emma Kingsley:

And as you just said, your margins I'm sure are less than

Emma Kingsley:

traditional fashion brands.

Emma Kingsley:

And I think that's another thing that could help change things.

Emma Kingsley:

As soon as people understand that regular just like traditional luxury conventional

Emma Kingsley:

stuff is like 10, 12 times a profit margin to the cost because it's so low quality.

Emma Kingsley:

And like just in your regular store and your regular target, I think the standard

Emma Kingsley:

is like six times or something like that.

Emma Kingsley:

So when you're buying cheap things, it's like really, really,

Emma Kingsley:

really cheap for them to get it.

Emma Kingsley:

And.

Emma Kingsley:

They're making so much profit.

Edzard:

That's exactly right.

Edzard:

And you had in the UK, you had, um, this kind of massive backlash

Edzard:

against this brand here released a one pound bikini, you know, and

Edzard:

all the papers wrote about it.

Edzard:

And there should be no way that you are doing anything vaguely

Edzard:

ethical in your supply chain.

Edzard:

If you're releasing one pound.

Edzard:

I mean, just think of whether you look at environment or whether you look at the

Edzard:

ethics, like someone has to be working on that garment and you simply cannot

Edzard:

be getting any type of course, outta the one pan garment where someone is

Edzard:

being paid minimum wage, even, right.

Edzard:

We're not even talking about a fair living wage and yeah, that is the huge, you know,

Edzard:

that is again, a huge problem in that, in that space is that it's the impact

Edzard:

that happens behind the scenes is vast

Mary Kingsley:

mm-hmm and Emma, to your point a little bit

Mary Kingsley:

ago about people buy, houses.

Mary Kingsley:

Condos and things because they think that's the stage of life

Mary Kingsley:

and this is what they need to do.

Mary Kingsley:

And they get mortgages and they, they plan these things for over a long period

Mary Kingsley:

of time, you know, 30 years, even what if some of these brands like yours Edzard

Mary Kingsley:

are offered, you know, we have this, this sweater for instance, maybe $300

Mary Kingsley:

and you can pay on it for like a year.

Mary Kingsley:

And I wonder if that would make people really internalize the idea

Mary Kingsley:

of investing in your clothing and investing in quality clothing.

Mary Kingsley:

Because most people shop a long time for their house.

Mary Kingsley:

You know, they shop a long time for their things that are gonna

Mary Kingsley:

designate a quality of lives and living in a healthy sound way.

Mary Kingsley:

And our three basic daily needs are food, clothing, and shelter.

Mary Kingsley:

To your point, as our, you said, people are starting to pay more

Mary Kingsley:

attention to food beginning, just to pay more attention to clothing.

Mary Kingsley:

But I wonder if we reframe clothing in, in the way that we

Mary Kingsley:

think about housing and, and are beginning to think more about food.

Mary Kingsley:

Is that a crazy idea?

Mary Kingsley:

Um, that we talk about clothing in terms of

Emma Kingsley:

crazy.

Emma Kingsley:

You're crazy, mom.

Mary Kingsley:

I know.

Edzard:

Well, I think that idea of it being an investment, I

Edzard:

think, I think that's kind of what sits to the core of it.

Edzard:

Right.

Edzard:

I think that's the interesting mindset shift where it's like,

Edzard:

okay, I'm gonna have this thing.

Edzard:

And I have have it for a long time.

Edzard:

I mean, I remember when my dad died and he had all this knitwear and he'd

Edzard:

had it since he was like 30, right.

Edzard:

So he'd had it for like 50 years and I inherited it and

Edzard:

I was saying great condition.

Edzard:

And it was a really good quality stuff and you go like this has had a long life,

Edzard:

and will continue to have actually have value, you know, maybe not purchase price

Edzard:

value, but it will continue to have value.

Edzard:

And that for me is also, that's our mindset.

Edzard:

It's like, I'm buying something now that is going to be an investment.

Edzard:

And by the way, I would argue that's actually where luxury fashion brands.

Edzard:

They do try to instill a bit of that.

Edzard:

Right?

Edzard:

You buy whatever handbag or some bag, the bag, this thing will

Edzard:

continue to appreciate in value.

Edzard:

It's an investment.

Edzard:

I think that is a valid way of kind of, of framing that particular item.

Edzard:

Right.

Edzard:

I think that that is important.

Edzard:

It's not something you'll just buy to kind of throw away.

Edzard:

Um, so I think that's where you can take some cues from luxury fashion taking

Edzard:

off whether, whether it's be made in the proper way, kind of aside from

Edzard:

it, it's more like, what am I doing when I'm actually buying this thing?

Edzard:

Am I treating it as an investment?

Edzard:

Because at that point you could argue that if you have something for 80 years, like

Edzard:

if it was slightly harmful, it's making.

Edzard:

Then it's more than offset by the fact that you've worn

Edzard:

it for eight years and right.

Emma Kingsley:

And you didn't need to buy five more of them.

Emma Kingsley:

Exactly.

Edzard:

You didn't need to buy five more of them and you didn't need

Edzard:

to, um, you know, come like replace it with, with fast fashion impact.

Edzard:

Mm-hmm

Edzard:

, Emma Kingsley: you know,

Edzard:

Woo.

Edzard:

Which a lot of people think, okay, wool sweaters.

Edzard:

That's just one season out of the year, but I love what you guys are doing with

Edzard:

offering products like t-shirts and short.

Edzard:

So let's talk about summer wool.

Edzard:

And why does that work?

Edzard:

Why is that a good idea?

Edzard:

So it's

Edzard:

kind of crazy, but wool is a very, very good summer regulator, right?

Edzard:

The sheep that we get them from in New Zealand, they have to withstand

Edzard:

very hot summers, very cold winters.

Edzard:

So the world, therefore the fleet itself adapts to those conditions, right.

Edzard:

It understands that it has to be kind of more kind of like

Edzard:

letting out heated in summer.

Edzard:

And it has to retain the heats when it comes to the.

Edzard:

So, again, it's very, very good at Thermo regulating.

Edzard:

We also treat it with something called eternity XCO, which is again,

Edzard:

totally Chlor free, no harmful chemicals that increase the Thermo

Edzard:

regulating, but also kind of almost like added cooling effects to the art.

Edzard:

So you can wear it in, uh, and you can wear it in the summer.

Edzard:

And the t-shirts great.

Edzard:

I bought it here, London in kind of, we just had that heat wave.

Edzard:

It's like 28 degrees and it wears incredibly well and it just kind of always

Edzard:

feels kind of cool against the touch.

Edzard:

So ours is, I would argue particularly good at thermal regulating, but

Edzard:

Marin woo itself is already very good at regulating temperature.

Edzard:

So this idea that cotton or linen is the only material to go through,

Edzard:

go for in the summer is not necessarily totally, totally accurate.

Edzard:

Will, can definitely, definitely sound alongside it.

Emma Kingsley:

That's so awesome.

Emma Kingsley:

I don't know if I'd ever heard of a wool t-shirt before, but I'm excited to.

Emma Kingsley:

Yeah.

Emma Kingsley:

It's like I'm wearing one.

Emma Kingsley:

It's great.

Emma Kingsley:

It's comfy.

Emma Kingsley:

Yeah.

Emma Kingsley:

I think, I, I think I recognize that I'm actually wearing a little sweater right

Emma Kingsley:

now because it was like slightly cool when I woke up today just in my house.

Emma Kingsley:

And this is also a regenerative old sweater from a California brand and nice.

Emma Kingsley:

It really it's true.

Emma Kingsley:

Like I it's summer and I like wearing the sweater in the mornings.

Emma Kingsley:

So there

Edzard:

it does.

Edzard:

It's like it wears to you.

Edzard:

It does wear very, like, we just, he is comfortable, you know?

Edzard:

Yeah.

Mary Kingsley:

So we talk about these things being long lasting as

Mary Kingsley:

an investment, but is there a point where the natural fibers will break

Mary Kingsley:

down in a natural way, like in nature, whereas people do, they perceive that

Mary Kingsley:

something poly a blend or a polys or something is longer lasting because

Mary Kingsley:

it has these synthetic materials.

Mary Kingsley:

I'm thinking of examples of like, you know, where you get organic cotton

Mary Kingsley:

undergarments or something that's due, maybe not last as long as a

Mary Kingsley:

synthetic thing, but you have to make the decision that you're gonna do it

Mary Kingsley:

because it's organic cotton and that's what you wanna wear against your body.

Mary Kingsley:

And that's what you want.

Mary Kingsley:

You don't want something to go in the landfill, that's

Mary Kingsley:

gonna be there 50, 50 years.

Mary Kingsley:

So when you talk about durability, is that sort of nuance in terms

Mary Kingsley:

of organic and natural materials,

Edzard:

On durability.

Edzard:

I think cotton tends to degrade in quality because you have to wash it a lot, right?

Edzard:

You wear cotton once you tend to have to wash it, you know, and in the washing

Edzard:

cycle, it naturally just, it always.

Edzard:

it's degrading in quality.

Edzard:

So in that sense, wool really doesn't need to, I've got sweaters.

Edzard:

I've just never washed, you know, and it really doesn't do anything to it.

Edzard:

Ah, and so I think that's the big thing is that as merino

Edzard:

wool is a self cleansing fiber.

Edzard:

So you really, unless you've done something particularly kind of

Edzard:

exhausting in it, or you just feel like you want to give it a wash,

Edzard:

then you don't really need to.

Edzard:

So I think that plays a part in the longevity, ah, is that you don't

Edzard:

need to put it into a washing cycle.

Edzard:

Now I think the big question is I think it's more about the appearance of wool.

Edzard:

That over time you get pilling and all of that, but the piece there that I

Edzard:

think is a big educational piece, it's like, you can maintain the sweater.

Edzard:

You know, I think it is a lot of people wear, it starts to pill a bit.

Edzard:

They go like, well it looks now it looks rubbish.

Edzard:

I'm gonna get rid of it.

Edzard:

Mm-hmm cause it just looks tatty.

Edzard:

And I think that's a big piece there to understand is that you can, you get a

Edzard:

little pill code, we send everything with little pill code, so you kind of clean

Edzard:

it, but you can also get these electric fabric shavers, which are amazing.

Edzard:

And you just pass them over the garment and it makes garment

Edzard:

look kind of brand new again.

Edzard:

I think that's, again, that's an education piece, right?

Edzard:

It's like, you can maintain these garments and if you maintain them,

Edzard:

well, they can last a long, long time if you snag them or anything like that,

Edzard:

and you need to have them repaired,

Edzard:

but

Mary Kingsley:

it's true.

Mary Kingsley:

I think that's gonna be a huge learning curve for consumers that

Mary Kingsley:

right there, because we're so

Emma Kingsley:

conditioned really

Mary Kingsley:

geared toward cleaning

Emma Kingsley:

things as soon as something like breaks or it

Emma Kingsley:

doesn't look as new anymore.

Emma Kingsley:

We've been conditioned to think, oh, I need a new one

Emma Kingsley:

or this doesn't work anymore.

Emma Kingsley:

We have lost the art of maintenance.

Emma Kingsley:

Yeah, I think in general,

Mary Kingsley:

that's true.

Mary Kingsley:

And I was also talking about just, if this is a little dirty, it has a spot

Mary Kingsley:

on it, spray something on it, throw it in the wash, hot water, you know, we're

Mary Kingsley:

really not educated on how to care for things because it's all a vicious cycle

Mary Kingsley:

because they're so cheap and it doesn't matter if it gets a hole or whatever.

Mary Kingsley:

So the thing about wool, really not needing to be washed, I think that's

Mary Kingsley:

a real discovery for a lot of people.

Mary Kingsley:

It has been for me.

Mary Kingsley:

And even when you know that it's still tempting to wanna clean it or, you know,

Mary Kingsley:

whatever, I was talking to a fiber artist just the other day about wool felting.

Mary Kingsley:

Yep.

Mary Kingsley:

And I was wanting to experiment with that, I would say, but how do

Mary Kingsley:

you clean it before you felt it?

Mary Kingsley:

She was saying you don't have to, you know, I have sheep,

Mary Kingsley:

I love to work with the wool.

Mary Kingsley:

I'm trying to learn to work with it more.

Mary Kingsley:

And that's kind of a hard thing to get your head around.

Mary Kingsley:

So I think that's worth just talking about a lot, the properties of these natural

Mary Kingsley:

materials and their needs and you just don't treat 'em like everything else.

Mary Kingsley:

And that's how you protect your investments.

Mary Kingsley:

So kind of close that loop there.

Edzard:

No, totally.

Edzard:

And I think it also, that's where this thing of like, if you have

Edzard:

a nice handbag or if you have a nice pair of shoes, funny enough.

Edzard:

I think you probably do spend a bit of time maintaining

Edzard:

it and making sure that it.

Edzard:

Looks and stays good.

Edzard:

Right?

Edzard:

You Polish your shoes.

Edzard:

you put shoe trees in them, whatever it is.

Edzard:

And like our other garments often don't get that same amount of respect, right?

Emma Kingsley:

Yeah.

Emma Kingsley:

Edzard, are you familiar with the term slow living?

Emma Kingsley:

Do you know about that?

Emma Kingsley:

No.

Edzard:

That's I could hazard a guess,

Emma Kingsley:

but so, you know, slow food probably.

Emma Kingsley:

Yeah.

Emma Kingsley:

In like slow fashion.

Emma Kingsley:

Yes.

Emma Kingsley:

So this podcast, generally, we love to talk about slow living

Emma Kingsley:

and I'm just interested without giving you any more information.

Emma Kingsley:

What does it mean to

Edzard:

you?

Edzard:

So I imagine it, a lot of it comes down to consideration.

Edzard:

So slowing down to make decisions.

Edzard:

I think that's for me would be the big piece.

Edzard:

Obviously it's in fashion, it's relatively easy to go.

Edzard:

Something that has been considered and taken a bit of time to make and

Edzard:

arriving with use, you know, slower, not to have everything speedy,

Edzard:

speedy, and immediate gratification.

Edzard:

But I think that more for me, personally, I think it is more about slowing

Edzard:

down and making the right decisions, you know, and making sure that you

Edzard:

don't just impulse buy everything.

Edzard:

You actually look into stuff before you buy it,

Edzard:

so

Mary Kingsley:

za, what makes sheep Inc unique in the

Mary Kingsley:

world of sustainable fashion?

Mary Kingsley:

And we wanna hear all about your Connected Dot.

Edzard:

When you, get a sweater from us that has a little NFC tag in it

Edzard:

that you scan with your phone, and we connect you with a sheep on the same

Edzard:

farm, your sweater's wool is from, and there's this idea of bringing you back

Edzard:

in touch and making you aware of the provenance behind the things that you buy.

Edzard:

And I think that's part of this slow living piece.

Edzard:

It's just like, again, taking the time to consider where has this come from?

Edzard:

What impact has it had, before you make purchasing decisions?

Edzard:

We have a supply chain that we can obviously be proud of.

Edzard:

And so we wanted to make sure also that everybody understood exactly

Edzard:

that the provenance basically behind every single garment that we buy.

Edzard:

So we built a digital supply chain tracking software basical.

Edzard:

Looks at every single part of the supply chain and registers information of events

Edzard:

happening throughout the supply chain.

Edzard:

So that means that we can see the unique journey for every single

Edzard:

piece of clothing that we create.

Edzard:

And that helps us internally because we can track garments,

Edzard:

but also it allows the customer to see the history of the garment.

Edzard:

Now, the big thing with transparency and such a buzzword in the industry

Edzard:

is that my opinion on it is that transparency of course is needed.

Edzard:

It's a hundred percent.

Edzard:

We need to get to this transparency.

Edzard:

You need to have transparency.

Edzard:

Doesn't sound where your impact is, et cetera.

Edzard:

But the consumer change piece is not gonna be driven by simply

Edzard:

offering up transparency because the consumer doesn't really care.

Edzard:

Like it's not that interesting to know all this very detailed

Edzard:

provenance piece behind the garments.

Edzard:

So we said, well, we need to make that experience of Providence more

Edzard:

interesting inherently kind of more emotionally engaging fashion is a,

Edzard:

obviously an, an emotional media so we said, well, if we're gonna be talking

Edzard:

about Providence, why don't we actually make people connected to the Providence?

Edzard:

How can we do that?

Edzard:

Or the way that we do that is by making them a adopt a sheep, basically on the

Edzard:

same farm that sweaters wool is from.

Edzard:

So when you get the garment, as again, has a LFC tag in it, you tap

Edzard:

it with your phone and we give you the whole history, but we also connect

Edzard:

you with a sheep on the same font.

Edzard:

So you can see where it is.

Edzard:

You can see ITSs bio its details, and it's just this kind of this simple mechanic

Edzard:

where it just makes the Providence real.

Edzard:

You know, it's like you start to think about the fact that this can actually

Edzard:

came from rash sheep, which is, I think a piece that we've kind of lost touch

Edzard:

with in, in our purchasing, we've talked about here is like, we don't think

Edzard:

anymore about where things come from, we just pick something up, we try it on.

Edzard:

We like it.

Edzard:

We can afford it, we buy it, you know, and I think that's the big

Edzard:

piece that needs to change again, is there needs to be this consideration.

Edzard:

And the only way you're going to do that is by.

Edzard:

Triggering some, the mono device that's gonna have people go like how, how do

Edzard:

I trigger something that, that makes me think about where it comes from?

Edzard:

Mm-hmm for us, that's a sheep, which is probably the opposite analogy of what we

Edzard:

were talking about before with the kind of the battery chicken, where you think

Edzard:

about sort wanting it to be a battery chicken in our case, you want to think

Edzard:

about the happy sheep that sits behind.

Emma Kingsley:

Yeah.

Emma Kingsley:

It reminds me of, are you familiar with the show Portlandia?

Emma Kingsley:

Yeah.

Edzard:

Yeah.

Edzard:

I remember the chicken in that.

Edzard:

Yeah.

Edzard:

Isn't that great.

Emma Kingsley:

There's literally scene where they sit down as fashion.

Emma Kingsley:

They're like, can you see the chickens papers?

Emma Kingsley:

Yeah.

Emma Kingsley:

Yeah.

Emma Kingsley:

That's what it reminds me of, but in a good way, it's

Mary Kingsley:

are you literally connected with like an individual

Mary Kingsley:

sheep, like with a name and everything?

Edzard:

So you can name it.

Edzard:

You can give it a nickname, but yes, it is an individual sheep.

Edzard:

Oh my gosh.

Edzard:

Well, the sheep are registered and we we're doing some

Edzard:

quite cool stuff in, um, Q3.

Edzard:

That's gonna make that experience more involved and kind of

Edzard:

more connected at the moment.

Edzard:

It's I think it's fun, but I think we're about to move it to kind

Edzard:

of the next level of experience.

Edzard:

Because you already want to make it more engaging, but

Edzard:

yeah, it is, it is a real sheep.

Edzard:

Like all the sheep have NFC, also NFC technologies.

Edzard:

They have tracker tags.

Edzard:

And so they, you get, and they get weighed and they'll just get all the

Edzard:

stats and the pregnancy scans, et cetera.

Edzard:

So you can actually get all that information that sits then in

Edzard:

a farm database, we can pull that through the customer.

Emma Kingsley:

Wow.

Emma Kingsley:

That's

Mary Kingsley:

amazing.

Mary Kingsley:

Oh my gosh.

Mary Kingsley:

I really appreciate like how also on your website, you answer a lot of the

Mary Kingsley:

questions that people have about the humaneness of sharing sheep and some

Mary Kingsley:

of the methods that, you know, people have heard about that are scary.

Mary Kingsley:

What is it?

Mary Kingsley:

The mulesing is that how you say that?

Mary Kingsley:

And you explain how you guys don't allow that people, again, it, it circles

Mary Kingsley:

back around so much to education.

Mary Kingsley:

People get these ideas about things that are bad or things that are good and it's.

Mary Kingsley:

This transparency is so key and you do a good job on your website of,

Mary Kingsley:

uh, explaining why it's not only okay to shear sheep, but very necessary

Mary Kingsley:

for their health and comfort.

Mary Kingsley:

Yeah.

Mary Kingsley:

And in fact, it's cruel not to shear sheep.

Mary Kingsley:

a lot of people just don't understand that.

Mary Kingsley:

So it's another way in sort of, you're sort of leveling up people's awareness

Mary Kingsley:

of supply chain issues and practices.

Mary Kingsley:

And thank you.

Mary Kingsley:

Yeah.

Edzard:

Unfortunately, reality.

Edzard:

I think we've entered this such like binary black, white world, right.

Edzard:

Where it's like, you gotta sit on one side and it's not.

Edzard:

And I think that's the, yes.

Edzard:

That we always need to bring that nuance back into the conversation

Edzard:

a bit where mm-hmm, not one thing is always totally bad and not

Edzard:

one thing's always totally good.

Edzard:

You know, it's like that there can be in, in the case of will, for instance,

Edzard:

mm-hmm, , there can be a more nuanced conversation there, which is both.

Edzard:

I think that you talk about the evolving customer.

Edzard:

We see a lot of challenge to our concepts.

Edzard:

Like, you know, a lot of people are coming out.

Edzard:

They go, what about this?

Edzard:

What about this?

Edzard:

What about this?

Edzard:

You know, We see that almost as a positive though, we see that is

Edzard:

customer is becoming more informed.

Edzard:

They are starting to challenge.

Edzard:

They are starting to understand that there's a lot of brands out there

Edzard:

who are greenwashing their claims.

Edzard:

And for us, even though it's often tedious to have to get a line of attack

Edzard:

that you then have to counter, I do think that it is an encouraging sign,

Edzard:

that people are starting to more and more think about where things come from.

Edzard:

They are starting to challenge the assumptions made by a lot of these brands.

Edzard:

And that means people are becoming more important.

Emma Kingsley:

Yeah.

Emma Kingsley:

That's a great way to think about it.

Emma Kingsley:

That's the, I agree.

Emma Kingsley:

Spin.

Emma Kingsley:

Thank you.

Emma Kingsley:

So what does the good dirt mean to you?

Emma Kingsley:

Good dirt.

Emma Kingsley:

Good soil.

Emma Kingsley:

Yeah.

Emma Kingsley:

Good dirt.

Emma Kingsley:

That's it.

Emma Kingsley:

Good.

Edzard:

so that can que the carbon.

Emma Kingsley:

Yeah.

Emma Kingsley:

That's what it's all about.

Emma Kingsley:

That's the basis of it, right?

Emma Kingsley:

Yeah.

Edzard:

Yeah.

Edzard:

And, but I think that's it, you know, that's, it's the non

Edzard:

disruption of good solve, right?

Edzard:

I mean, that's, that's, again, the big part of the regenerative farming

Edzard:

process is to making sure that mm-hmm , the soil can have time to.

Edzard:

Sequester carbon doesn't get disturbed and it has good roots.

Emma Kingsley:

Definitely.

Emma Kingsley:

So, absolutely.

Emma Kingsley:

Is there anything else that you want to leave with our audience or that you

Emma Kingsley:

want people to know about sheep, Inc?

Emma Kingsley:

Maybe.

Emma Kingsley:

I don't know if we've talked about what sheep Inc actually means.

Emma Kingsley:

I thought it was like sheep incorporated, but I don't know if you wanna talk

Emma Kingsley:

about the name or anything else.

Edzard:

So this sheep included as we included she, but I think that

Edzard:

no, the, the only other thing maybe of interest is we also invest 3%

Edzard:

of our revenue back into our supply chain into biodiversity projects.

Edzard:

So we do that on the, we call it the radical farming fund.

Edzard:

And what we do is we, again know we can have enough positive impact.

Edzard:

So we, we invest into the farms we work with just kind of insetting projects

Edzard:

to make sure that again, there is a positive impact happening there.

Emma Kingsley:

Very cool.

Emma Kingsley:

Yeah.

Emma Kingsley:

I have one more little question.

Emma Kingsley:

Just something that I'm curious about, I guess I'm just curious

Emma Kingsley:

in how you raise the resources for these amazing, like this incredible

Emma Kingsley:

supply chain that you've set up.

Emma Kingsley:

Is there a good amount of like venture funding for this kind of thing?

Emma Kingsley:

And I can imagine this being more, I don't know, there's just not a ton of

Emma Kingsley:

companies in the states that I know of that are doing this kind of stuff,

Emma Kingsley:

or are you totally bootstrapped or how does that have you gotten this far?

Edzard:

So it's a mixture of both actually.

Edzard:

We've, we've got great angel masters who came into the business and we

Edzard:

try to be as disciplined as possible.

Edzard:

This idea.

Edzard:

Well, we have big ambitions for the company.

Edzard:

We think that it can be something, it can turn into

Edzard:

something relatively, um, Iconic.

Edzard:

Yeah, but we've tried to very much kind of both bootstrap it.

Edzard:

And let's saying that we also have a great bunch of investors and by the

Edzard:

way, the farms also investors in our business, they've also come in, which

Edzard:

is great to have such kind of aligned

Emma Kingsley:

investors.

Emma Kingsley:

That's super cool.

Emma Kingsley:

Yeah.

Emma Kingsley:

I'm always curious about that.

Emma Kingsley:

Just because having been on this side of it with our clothing, we haven't

Emma Kingsley:

gotten to anywhere near the scale that many of the brands that we even

Emma Kingsley:

interview are at, but just the sheer it's just so layered and complex and

Emma Kingsley:

expensive to do things the right way.

Emma Kingsley:

So I also think that that is a really important part of the conversation as

Emma Kingsley:

far as transparency goes, like, how are the, what's the word I'm looking for?

Emma Kingsley:

The pioneers, you know, funding.

Emma Kingsley:

Yeah.

Emma Kingsley:

Getting the resources to forge ahead because it's, uh, very risky.

Emma Kingsley:

And again, it's hard to create a product that the consumer doesn't quite exactly

Emma Kingsley:

understand yet, but we're getting there.

Emma Kingsley:

We

Edzard:

started getting there, hopefully.

Edzard:

Yeah.

Edzard:

Yeah.

Edzard:

Kicking and screaming better dragged and kicking and screaming into it.

Edzard:

But yes.

Mary Kingsley:

Yeah.

Mary Kingsley:

How could our audience connect with you and find you and follow

Mary Kingsley:

you and, and where should they go to learn more about sheep, Inc?

Mary Kingsley:

So you

Edzard:

can, obviously, our website has got hopefully a lot of information on it.

Edzard:

Sheep inc.com or Instagram, also sheep, Inc.

Edzard:

It's all pretty straightforward.

Edzard:

and then if you want to email any questions to us, just email the, our,

Edzard:

our team as the flock sheeping.com.

Edzard:

Cool.

Emma Kingsley:

I can say your website is super informative and engaging

Emma Kingsley:

and really fun to click around.

Emma Kingsley:

So thank you.

Emma Kingsley:

Yeah.

Emma Kingsley:

Recommend it.

Mary Kingsley:

Good job.

Mary Kingsley:

Yeah.

Mary Kingsley:

Are you on social

Edzard:

media?

Edzard:

Yes.

Edzard:

Our Instagram handle is at sheep, Inc.

Mary Kingsley:

Okay,

Emma Kingsley:

excellent.

Emma Kingsley:

Very good.

Emma Kingsley:

Well, thank you so much, ed.

Emma Kingsley:

Great to talk to you both.

Emma Kingsley:

Yeah.

Emma Kingsley:

So lovely.

Emma Kingsley:

Yeah.

Emma Kingsley:

Meet you.

Emma Kingsley:

Thank you so much.

Emma Kingsley:

Have a great rest of your day.

Emma Kingsley:

You too.

Emma Kingsley:

Bye.

Emma Kingsley:

Thank you for tuning in to the good dirt podcast.

Emma Kingsley:

If you enjoyed this episode, we hope you'll share it with a

Emma Kingsley:

friend to spread the good dirt.

Mary Kingsley:

This show is produced by lady farmer, a slow living lifestyle

Mary Kingsley:

community, and the original music is composed and performed by John Kingsley.

Mary Kingsley:

For

Emma Kingsley:

more from lady farmer.

Emma Kingsley:

Follow us on Instagram at we are lady farmer that's.

Emma Kingsley:

We are lady farmer or join us online@wwwdotlady.com.

Emma Kingsley:

We'll see you next time on the good goodbye.

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