Welcome!

In this episode I am talking about the concept of reasonable risk and how it applies to our mindset with significant elders or aging parents.

How does risk calculation change over time?

How does quality of life factor in?

How do we approach this topic?

Want to check out the video - it's posted on YouTube.

Caveats:

• This is a judgement free zone
• There are no "shoulds" allowed, we live in curiosity
• Take what works well for you, leave the rest!

My course "unSandwiched: 5 steps to managing mental drama about aging parents" goes live on July 20th. Please see the interest list here.

If you are finding value in this podcast, please share and leave a review so others can find it too!

Rebecca

Disclaimer: The information presented on this podcast is solely for information purposes. We do not provide medical, legal, financial, or other professional advice through this podcast and we are not responsible for any errors or omissions. It is your responsibility to seek advice from a licensed professional. Any actions you take are done at your own risk.

Hello everyone.

So my name is Rebecca Tapia.

I know many of you have not met me before, and I am the host of the.

Podcast, real conversations about aging parents.

I've been watching the analytics about the podcast in the background,

and it's definitely been growing.

Thank you so much for sharing this, and if you find anybody else that might

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Written reviews are the best to help make sure that the.

Podcast is promoted to other people who might benefit from it.

So thank you from the bottom of my heart for being an early

supporter of this project.

It, it means more to me than you could know, so I know you've had

a lot of conversations thus far.

This is now our 10th episode, which is super exciting, and this is

gonna be a solo podcast, so I'll be doing more of these in the future.

But we will never stop interviewing, interviewing interviewing interesting

people and getting their stories.

We've got some really good ones coming down the pike here soon.

So today we're gonna talk about reasonable risk.

And I, I know this isn't necessarily a familiar term to most of you, it

wasn't to me until about a year ago.

And so the story is that we, we took our daughter.

To a summer camp last year.

And like any 11 year old girl when she got back from a two week summer

camp that was her first experience of that kind in a long time.

It did take probably weeks, maybe months to get it all out of her.

Like what ended up, what did she learn about, what were her friends like?

What were the experiences like?

And I remember very distinctly kind of probing her you know, you can only

go so far sometimes with, with kids.

And then I went back and asked again at some point, and we were

turning the corner just about a half a mile here from my house.

And I said, what did you guys do there?

Just like learned to make friendship bracelets and s'mores.

I mean, the pictures I saw looked like campfires.

And she took a deep breath and she looked at me and she said, I.

Learned how to take reasonable risk, and you could have hit me with a two by four.

That's way better than learning friendship bracelets.

Nothing against friendship bracelets, but if there was a cart as a parent and

I could take skill, skill sets and life lessons and move them into the cart and

purchase them, one of them would be.

Teach my children how to take reasonable risk.

And I asked her, and I said, what do you, what do you mean by that?

What do you think reasonable risk is?

And she said, well, when I'm trying to weigh out whether or not I should

do something, then I think about the upsides and the downsides.

And I think to myself, is this a reasonable risk?

And I said, well, could you give me an example?

And she said, yeah, there was this over in the lake where they have

a lake near their summer camp.

There's two platforms and then there's a rope in between them.

And you can with safety measures in place and with somebody there go and

hang on with, sounded like a monkey bar.

Prove that you can hang on the monkey bar for so long and then go and try to swing

on the rope between the two platforms.

And she said, I, I thought to myself, well, the potential upside of this is

I can make it to the other platform.

I could be successful, I would feel really great if I did that,

everybody would be happy for me.

And the potential downside is that I would slip off the rope and fall

into the water below and then have to swim my way over to the corner and

you know, kind of deal with myself.

And she said she carefully thought through this and said, well, I really, really like

the idea that I can get to the platform, to the other platform successfully.

And so I was decided to go up and you know, AP approach the person and like,

let me get on the rope and get across.

And I'm ply asking her this story, of course has already

happened many weeks ago.

And I said, what happened?

And she said, yeah, I, I just fell in the water almost immediately.

And I said, okay, how did you feel about that?

And she said, well, I told myself it was a reasonable risk to take.

Knowing that I could have gotten to the other side, but you know,

worst case scenario fell and you know, everything's okay.

And I thought a lot about that because we actually just took her back to

that same camp this past weekend.

And my husband and I were talking on the way home how mature

of a concept that is and how.

We're, how do we use that terminology in our lives when

we're talking to our children?

And what I'm gonna focus on today is how this concept applies to our

mental drama about our aging parents.

And one thing that strikes me that I know both living with somebody

nearly 90 years old at this point.

And then professionally working with so many people in the the older age

group, the idea of what a reasonable risk is will change over time and

the calculations are different.

So if you're a math person, all the inputs and variables change over time.

The coefficients change.

What's more important to you?

What are you summing for?

And so if I am in my forties and I'm thinking I'm gonna live to my eighties,

Then when I'm calculating reasonable risk of any activity, I'm factoring

in if there was an adverse outcome.

So if I became disabled or injured, then I will have to live that

way, perhaps another 40 years.

But if I'm 78 years old and one of the potential outcomes is that

I have some physical demise as a result of this activity, maybe

I think differently about it.

The other side of reasonable risk that changes.

When from, from say middle age up into your senior years is that

we have to make sure that we're thinking about this in total.

And so we are not thinking about risk reduction down simply to physical safety.

Not that that's not important, but there is a large component of quality

of life, an agency later in life that will figure in greatly into

is this a reasonable risk or not?

Meaning they don't have as many years of experiences left as say

somebody in their forties or fifties.

And perhaps that changes the math and that changes the calculation of what

they're going to decide to do or not to.

So for example, some major areas would be compliance medications, compliance

with doctor's recommendations.

So, For instance, my grandmother stopped getting mammograms some

time ago because it was a very uncomfortable experience for her.

She's a very private person.

She didn't enjoy going to the doctor to have that done, and she

announced to me, this would've been probably five or six years ago.

I don't care if I get breast cancer, I just don't wanna do mammograms anymore,

and I'll just deal with it if it happens.

And that is an example of her doing a risk calculation and making a decision

for herself and her body and her health and what she's willing or not

willing to do as part of her agency to make those types of decisions.

But we have to remember that there is a potential for conflict here.

And so a lot of the drama I see about aging parents, Is the adult

child in the picture, which is me and you, us talking here today.

That's the main audience we have for this conversation.

Looking at the reasonable risk calculation of a significant

elder and disagreeing with it.

And so it could be, Hey, I don't think you should go up and down the stairs.

I don't think that's a safe thing to do.

Right.

And they think to themselves, well, I enjoy going up and down the stairs or

if you go back to say the podcast with Sally, she talks about her mother wanting

to go down into the basement to balance her checkbook, that there is something

that she gets out of going up and down the stairs or being alone in the basement.

Some sort of break, something going on there and she does this calculation

and says, yeah, I could fall down the stairs, but I'm deciding to do that.

And.

I'll deal with the consequences, right?

So where the drama comes in is when people are hitched together.

So we would say that, you know, my wagon is hitched to you super old term, but

like this idea that, you know, you can have as a risk falling down the stairs.

But what we think they're risking along with that is, say, a month or two of

our time, should they find themselves in the hospital in a rehab situation.

So, Or needing additional care.

So if I'm somebody that's sitting here looking at a potential promotion and that

person is walking up and down the stairs and, and I don't perceive this as safe,

then they're doing it maybe for their quality of life outta their decisions.

But you're also thinking, you know, right behind that is a potential

future obligation for my time, resources, money, attention, something.

So it's usually one of those buckets there, right?

So part of their reasonable risk calculation now has us tied into

it with the assumption that we are going to provide some care or

assistance or otherwise support should something bad happen.

And so a lot of the conflict comes from those risk calculations

and for the adult child.

To use mechanisms to try to control the decision making as far as what's

what, what the risk is, and then more than that even to control the behavior.

And oftentimes what this looks like is it's beyond usually a simple conversation.

So if the, a simple conversation would be, Hey mom, I noticed this rug doesn't have.

One of those anti-slip things underneath it.

Do you mind if I go to the store and purchase it and, and put it

underneath the rug so you don't slip?

That's probably not a IC drawn out conversation.

Right.

But Hey mom, I.

I think you should stop driving is probably one of the most

difficult conversations you sh you could possibly have.

And so the idea here is that there is friction between the reasonable risk

that, that I might think they should take because of what's risk is involved for me.

Right?

And then some friction of them trying to retain.

Their own agency and autonomy, and that's where we see a lot of this come up.

So the big buckets that I see this fall into, like I said, the, the

medication compliance or the medical compliance, physical activities.

So should somebody be stairs is a big one.

Sometimes one of 'em, I, I've, I've even heard somebody upset about

their mom taking a bath and having difficulty getting in and out of the

bath and that they sh she shouldn't be taking baths anymore because she

could fall and have a head injury.

And I think another way that I'd like to, to propose that we think about

it and this is a big deal for me as somebody who's a professional in the

brain injury and trauma rehab world, is we have to first be really honest.

That we cannot mitigate risk for anything down to 0% in these scenarios.

And so if we look at probably the number one risk mitigation strategy

focus for older adults is to not fall.

And so the number one cause of head injuries and older adults is falls.

And then a major cause of hospitalization and disability in older adults is falls.

And so if I was just looking at.

Reasonable risk related to falls, then I would tell Nana, my grandmother,

well then just don't get outta bed every day because her going horizontal,

sleeping to vertical, standing up and getting outta bed is the highest

risk of fall, is just being vertical.

If she was horizontal all day, right, unless she just rolled out of bed

on purpose, she would never fall.

And so the two most common places to fall are gonna be her

standing up to get outta bed.

And the second, or an additional, probably this is the most common place,

is actually gonna be falling in the bathroom, taking a shower, getting up

from, from the toilet, that type of thing.

And so if I was just focused on risk mitigation for falls, then somebody

would stay horizontal all the time.

And if they stayed horizontal all the time, I.

Then they would have respiratory problems because all that junk in your lungs, you

know, sits on the back of your lungs then.

And then they would have pressure sores, which are also can be

very deadly for older people.

And then she would have UTIs because she wasn't getting up and

going to the bathroom as much.

And UTIs can kill people too.

And so then I could hop over and say, okay, well let's just, you know, mitigate

the risk of UTIs and make sure you drink this much every day and test every day.

Let's mitigate the risk of bedsores and make sure you're

outta bed as much as possible.

But then I increase the risk for falls.

And what, where I, where, what I'm talking about is to be realistic

about everybody having a constant negotiation in their life between

reasonable risk and daily activities.

And for a adult, say anywhere from 25 to 75, the highest risk activity

they have on pretty much any given day unless they're intoxicated.

It, well, specifically they're intoxicated, but even for non

intoxicated people is physically being in a car or a vehicle and traveling.

So we as humans are soft sheed, right?

We're like masses of, you know, not of highly vulnerable, you know, tissues.

And we place ourselves inside a hard shell, which is a car.

Unless you're crazy enough to be on a motorcycle, which is a whole other

podcast, but you put yourself inside a hard shell and then you run that

hard, shell say 70 miles an hour down a highway with debris and other drivers,

et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

So we getting out of bed in the morning or taking a reasonable risk

and then getting in our vehicle or taking a reasonable risk that we assess

and what we assess to be reasonable changes throughout our lifetime.

And you.

If, if you're a parent, you know, you spend a lot of time just

explaining to kids why some risks are worth it, why some are not.

How, you know, how did you come to this conclusion?

What did you actually think that that got you this far?

And so the way I think about it is if you've evolved a lot and say the last

10 to 20 years what you're willing to risk, and, and in some areas

your risk tolerance may go higher.

And so you may be taking more risk and there are other areas of life

where your risk tolerance may be lowering and you can see it over time.

It actually just kind of undulates in many areas and

as it undulates, right?

I mean, it's gonna continue to undulate as somebody gets older.

And so, one of the, the ways I think about it or the ways I like to approach it, Is

just to be as honest and transparent as possible, and to be honest with myself.

And so if I say Nana, I don't want you to shower by yourself, right?

And I'm saying that because I don't want her to fall.

Then what I'm also saying then, then I to have a complete conversation.

Then we have a whole other conversation about privacy and safety.

And at her age, she may come and say, you know, I'm willing to take the risk that

I fall and maybe you're not home, and maybe nobody finds me and maybe I die,

but I still wanna take a shower by myself.

Thank you.

Now, we've never had this conversation specifically, we had a lot of

similar conversations, but this would be an example of that's

exactly what I would expect her to say and why I haven't asked her yet.

And she hasn't demonstrated a lot of safety issues with the bathroom.

But the idea is that when I think about it, there's a surface thought

that feels super self-righteous and kind of like perfect daughter

ish, which is, you know, I'm just super concerned about your safety.

And you'll hear this when people talk about it.

They'll say, I don't want mom and you know, to go up and down the stairs

because I'm concerned about her safety.

And I'm not saying that's not true and that's not an initial

thought that your brain has.

But as we'll talk about both in my podcast and any other content that I put

out there, I love complete sentences.

I love to look at secondary and tertiary layers of that thought because I actually

think that's where the real work is.

And if we just stopped at that and said, oh, look at this daughter,

she's just super concerned about.

Somebody's safety going up and down the stairs.

Well, how concerned are you also, in whatever scenario to make this calculation

about their quality of life and where does that figure in and how concerned are you

also about their autonomy and their agency and if you are so into this, and I've

been there, okay, that you're going to employ pressure, coercion, and harassment.

To get somebody to acquiesce to your reasonable risk calculation and

say, you really shouldn't do this.

You know?

Right.

Then you know that you're not in a good space.

Right.

That's not good for your relationship.

It's not good for your stress management either, but it feels very righteous.

It feels like you're fighting for somebody and really, really, if we're

gonna go another layer or two underneath that, what's actually happening?

The second, right underneath that is actually a very ego driven

thought, which is, I don't have time for a crisis right now.

Right?

If the shit hit the fan and there is an accident or a hospitalization, right?

I've got this going on.

I've got kids that are really involved in things and I've got

a career that I'm managing and I don't have that much sick time or

whatever it is going on that right.

It is a very sneaky thought that doesn't declare itself, but can

drive a lot of the drama around it.

And so when you're talking about this topic and you get really expressive

about it, and you're, excuse me,

and you're really, really into it, the next question would be, do you know why?

Is it bothering you so much?

So, so you think they're making a bad decision?

Have they ever made any other bad decisions in a lifetime?

Have you.

If we have the bad decision police, there'd be like unlimited number

of police in the world, right?

So, the idea would be that the second layer there really is, you

know, it'd be super inconvenient if something really bad happened.

And when I say that out loud, I sound like a total asshole.

But the issue is, I, it's true.

I can both these, both of these things can be true.

I love you and I'm really concerned about your safety.

And the second thing is, since I'm your medical power of attorney, it would

be the next of kin in this situation and be nearly required to go to the

hospital and make decisions for you.

You know, like, it's kind of like bad timing.

So how do we risk mitigate this?

And part of this is just having that conversation, right?

And then I think there's a third layer, and I always love the third layer because

it's the, the most fascinating to me.

And in this particular topic, I think the third layer, at least for me is

the guilt or resentment that I'm going to feel if and when this happens?

And that is a very negative emotion for me.

That's a very activating emotion for me.

And so the idea is, well, I told you not to.

I told you not to.

I told you not to, and then you did it anyway and then this happened and

I'm gonna be stuck in my brain with simultaneously feeling sorry for you.

Right, and then feeling like a dipshit for also being really

angry with you at the same time.

And I say this not just as a personal experience, I'm sorry you're getting

to know me, but I'm gonna be really, really real with you guys, right?

I see this play out perpetually in the world of rehab because in the

rehab world, we see pretty much every catastrophic incident you can think of.

And there's this, in some cases, Not only is there the grief about what's

happening to the person or the stress of the hospitalization and the rehab

stay, then there's also this sort of secondary, well, you know, I told

them X, Y, Z, and they did it anyway.

And that's a really, really hard thing to reconcile.

And so all of these things can form like a thought tornado.

That make me want to control the way another person behaves.

And that to me is my big red flag.

And I think, okay, well one, if I was really successful at doing

this, then, you know, I would have a whole different career.

But, but two, it doesn't feel good.

And all I can know that I have are my own limits, my own boundaries

that I have the best relationship I can have and say with sincerity.

I really hope you're safe.

You know, here's how I think of this.

This is what could happen if this happened and have a discussion if appropriate,

and then move on with my life.

I can't sit there and beat somebody up over it all the time.

If I think they should be in an assisted living, and I think this

over and over and over again, they're staying in their home, right?

What are, what am I supposed to do?

Go and kidnap them and admit them to an assisted living.

You know, an assisted living will not admit somebody who they feel like is

going to leave or be a risk of leaving.

That's not a good investment for them.

And so they need the buy-in of primarily their, their client, which

is going to be the, the significant elder, and then whomever else is,

is sort of part of their care.

Right.

And speaking of aging in place, this is a massive topic, is the calculation of

reasonable risks with aging in place.

And so, How long somebody stays in their own home before they either

get help in the home or decide to move it into assisted living, right.

I've been right there at that intersection, hundreds and hundreds and

hundreds of times of how people make this complex decision, and there is not a one

size fits all for it, but for an adult who retains capacity and their ability

to make their own decisions and control their life, And they can understand the

risks and benefits of any given setting.

Right?

And they make that decision for themselves, right?

That they're, that's up to them.

As painful as that can be, and as challenging as that can be, and if

that's the course that they take, and that's a hard course to take, right?

Then you do the best that you can as well and manage your mind at that point.

That's what I'm so big about with mindset, right?

Which I.

If you're not gonna control what they're doing, which we've talked

about, can be fe futile anyway.

And then next to that, the idea is gonna be, you know, if I can't

control you, I can control myself and I can control my mindset and support

you and find ways to support you and find ways to think about this.

And, and what, what are the benefits of this?

And this happens a lot.

So we have an older adult that starts falling at home and

then we solve for the safest.

Fall averse setting, and then it becomes basically a place

with very little furniture.

It doesn't, it becomes clinicalize, it becomes institutionalized.

And you walk in and it's like, oh, great.

This is like a box with a bed and a walker and a call light.

And now they can't fall.

They still do.

And so even in settings like even hospital settings, you know, patients

still fall even sometimes when there's somebody paid by the hour to sit

next to that person to try to make sure they don't fall short of shoving

them back into bed, it still happens.

And so the idea is you're not gonna risk mitigate falls.

Down to zero in-home or in assisted living.

It theoretically should be less in those types of settings, but

always have a complete conversation because we're complete human beings

with a lot of other considerations.

And there may be an older adult that you're dealing with who's

consideration of simply extending life for the maximum amount possible.

May not be how they're thinking.

And I can tell you for sure, my dad doesn't think that way.

If you go back to the podcast with my dad, he doesn't think that way at all.

Right, so he's a person on blood thinners who rides horses, and so that

is not a reasonable risk I would take as a head injury specialist who's seen

people get thrown off of horses on blood thinners and have a bad outcome.

But I sit in this space of knowing that that is a risk he is willing to

take, and it brings some joy to him.

It brings some amount of accomplishment, agency joy.

Right.

And so I have to reconcile that and I, and, and that is just part of

what this negotiation is going to be.

Or you can go back to the podcast with Jaylynn and she talks about her mom being

hyper-focused on extending her life.

So everything was about solving these medical problems and

just simply living longer.

And so maybe with her, maybe her reasonable risk profile looks different.

Right.

And so she had a bunch of procedures to try to extend her life.

And if you listen to the podcast, I mean, sometimes those

end up working against you.

And as a physician, we're very comfortable with reasonable risk.

Anytime we do any, even a minor procedure, we, you know, take a, a a consent

paper that says you could get some inflammation or all the way up into death.

And you have people sign it because you don't know exactly what's gonna happen.

And you can say, well, it's very low risk.

Right?

But you go in and, and have it done anyway.

Anytime if anybody has ever been under anesthesia or gone

to have a surgery, right?

There's risk just from the anesthesia alone.

And I think about this because it, I, I just have this weird kind of, Headspace,

when I think about elective surgeries, so like cosmetic surgeries and so forth that

aren't meant to preserve or extend life, but to change aesthetically, I think to

myself, there are people out there who are signing consents for general anesthesia.

So intubation, the whole nine yards and general anesthesia alone has a

non-zero risk of adverse outcomes or, or complications, but they're

looking at it and saying whatever cosmetic procedure they have.

It's a reasonable risk to them.

So they've done some risk assessment and we are okay with that, obviously.

I mean, it's totally illegal and common to do that.

And so when, when you're having conflict with a significant elder over judgment

that they're making or, or a choice that they're making, I, I would encourage

you to get still and realize that there is a mismatch or a gap between

reasonable risk assessments on other side.

The way I think about it is there's a bright red line.

If they're taking a risk, that's, that's potentially going to hurt somebody else.

And so if they're driving and they shouldn't be driving because they have

a history of vision problems or their memory or they're, they're making se

impaired when they're driving, they're having increased number of accidents or

tickets, those types of things, right?

And those laws do vary by state.

How and if you can report other people you feel like are unsafe to

drive, but to me, if they're making decisions that put anybody else in

harm's way, there really isn't this reasonable risk gap calculation.

Right.

So then the, that goes back to just sort of laws and ethics about how you

help protect the public health and protect people around that person.

And we do have a, a lot of those types of considerations in a medical

setting when a patient's really agitated and couldn't danger.

Staff or other patients, and, and that kind of puts us in a different mode.

But short of that being the case if the risk is to themselves and they

are able to make those decisions to the extent possible, honoring those

decisions and, and letting them right, make those decisions is an important

thing to protect their agency and their quality of life and their autonomy later.

So, And I think about this even in the language that we, we use.

And so I hear people say, well, you know, I'd feel really guilty if X, y, Z happened

because I let them stay in their home or because I let them do this activity.

And the idea is that that's not even real language.

I mean, you didn't let somebody do something.

So, we'll use a synonym to, to permit, and I'm a linguist at heart, and so to permit.

Means per means through admit means send.

So to send through as if somebody's coming to your gate and you're doing

some assessment and you say, okay, well you can go through so I will

permit you or send you through, you know, to the, to the choice that you've

made so you can take this activity.

And so putting myself in the position of permitting or otherwise obstructing

somebody from doing something that's within their rights to do is never

a good place to be with you or.

Outsourcing your emotional experience to somebody else's decision making?

I am not a pro at this yet.

I still feel like I struggle with this.

Even as a physician, we see people make decisions or risk tradeoffs that you

would think maybe I would make that one.

It can be difficult, but when you go back to even how physicians

are trained, so first do no harm.

Right.

So I'm not going to go over to their house and harass them until they make

a decision that I'm happy with, right?

Because regret works both ways, and I've seen it work both ways so many times.

So there's this idea that there's some adverse event and somebody's like, oh, I

told them they shouldn't have done that.

But then I've also seen people pass in settings or situations

or have things happen.

Where there's some regret that that person was too constrained or too

restricted or too guilted into low activity levels that don't make any sense.

And I'll give you just one more example.

So, some of the assisted living type settings or nursing facility type

settings won't permit any alcohol on the premises, which makes sense, right?

Because you don't want a bunch of people walking around inebriated.

But there are some people whose life tradition.

Would be, say, drinking a beer and watching a, a football game

on a weekend or something, or drinking some wine at night.

And maybe that's how they've lived so dang long by drinking the wine.

And when you're looking at selecting facilities and having that as a question,

you know, what is your policy about this?

Because I'm acknowledging that this is an important part of their life.

And I'm not, I'm not saying this for like patients that struggle

with alcoholism or things like that.

I'm talking specifically about social quality of life type issues,

and then asking, you know, what is what is, how do you approach this?

What's your policy about this?

And then, and then again, that's a holistic approach that's gonna think of

them as a whole human being, not again, a soft shelf thing that needs to not find

themselves on the ground, which is true.

We don't want anybody to find themselves in the ground.

But as I've said, you have to be vertical to be healthy.

Right.

And there's just so many things in this world, even for non an elderly people

that we just have to be aware of.

And so taking reasonable measures to say, you know, fall proof the house,

house as much as possible, or to, you know, prevent as reasonably as

you can, bad things from happening.

So if they're still driving, that they have a car that's in good shape,

that they have tires that are Good.

They have breaks that are good just like anything else, right?

Those are where you really get into starting then to blend

sort of those risk calculations.

So I know that's a lot of information.

I am really excited to see my daughter come back here in about two weeks and

to learn more about what she's, if they're still talking about reasonable

risk or how she's thought about this I would encourage you to, to think about

things in those terms and just know.

That there's a lot of variability about how people calculate that.

And the way that your significant elder may calculate it may have nothing to do

with you, may not be a slight, it may not be it might be an extremely personal

calculation as to how they arrived there.

If you have curiosity about it or willing sharing, you can talk to them about it.

And then also if you wanna share how you, how you think this might affect you,

if you think that might be helpful in the conversation, that's an option too.

So, well thank you for listening to that.

I will tell you, I have been working for the past six months on

building a course on this topic.

Not specifically reasonable risk, but the entire topic of mindset when it

comes to approaching your mindset about your aging parent or significant elders.

That course is going to go live on July 20th.

If you are interested in it, please go over to rebecca tapia

md.com, join the interest list.

I'll make sure you get some information.

I'll make sure that you're access to this course immediately.

On the 20th.

I think it's gonna be an excellent conversation for us to have in

between you and I through this course building on a workbook.

I am really, really excited to share it with you.

I've been working really, really hard on it.

And I just, I, I think it's gonna be a, a very, very interesting course edit.

So, coming up on July 20th, I'm gonna release the course I've

been working on for the better part of the past year or so.

It's called Un Sandwiched, five Steps to Manage Your Mental

Drama About Aging Parents.

I say un sandwiched because I'm referring to the sandwich generation where people

feel pulled between their careers and their own kids and their aging parents.

And so working on un sandwiching that part of the brain.

So that'll be available on July 20th.

If you'd like to go over to rebecca toka md.com or hit the

link in the show notes here.

I can tell you more about it.

If you again, if you have anybody who would benefit from these kinds

of conversations, please, please share the podcast with them.

I'd be greatly appreciative of that.

Thank you so much.