Episode Overview

In this episode of The Future-Ready Advisor, host Sam Sivarajan sits down with John Kailunas, a wealth advisor, author, and retirement mentor who brings a fresh perspective to one of life's most important transitions. John has spent decades helping clients build, preserve, and transition wealth, but noticed a troubling pattern: clients who had all the financial pieces in place were still floundering in retirement.

They discuss the emotional and psychological aspects of retirement planning often overlooked by advisors, the importance of having purpose beyond financial security, and how advisors can evolve their practice to meet clients' deeper needs. John shares powerful client stories and practical insights from his book Mission Retirement, offering a roadmap for creating fulfilling post-career chapters.

Key Quote

"All money does is give you liberty. The art is how you make people feel and how you leave them." --- John Kailunas

Key Takeaways

• Retirement is a transition, not a finish line - Many people spend decades planning financially but virtually no time planning what they'll actually do
• Purpose impacts longevity - Clients without clear direction often experience rapid physical and mental deterioration within 2-5 years of retirement
• The advisor's role must evolve - Adding the "art" of helping clients visualize their dreams creates unduplicatable value and deeper relationships
• Start small with deliberate actions - Like tiny habits, beginning with one meaningful step can lead to transformative retirement planning
• Involve spouses in the conversation - Using structured approaches helps couples align on their retirement vision and priorities

Sound Bites

• "They had the money, but lacked the mission."
• "Money gives you liberty."
• "The art is how you make people feel."
• "We're wasting a tremendous resource."
• "Start with something small."
• "Practice gratitude daily."
• "Be deliberate with your actions."

Topics Discussed

01:09 -- The Importance of Purpose in Retirement 05:59 -- Planning for a Fulfilling Retirement

10:05 -- The Consequences of Lack of Purpose 16:01 -- The Evolving Role of Financial Advisors 20:26 -- The Importance of Small Steps in Retirement Planning

Resources Mentioned

• Mission Retirement by John Kailunas and Kevin Burwell - Available on Amazon and Kindle
• Catalyst for Growth coaching and consulting

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• Join the conversation on LinkedIn---share your thoughts and connect with other forward-thinking advisors.
• Explore more insights on Sam's website.

Hi everyone. I'm your host, Sam Sivarajan. Welcome to today's episode of the Future Ready Advisor. Today, I'm joined by John Kailounis, a wealth advisor and now author, speaker, and retirement mentor who brings a fresh lens to one of life's most important transitions. John spent decades in the financial services industry, helping clients build, preserve, and transition wealth. But over time, he noticed a troubling pattern.

clients who had all the financial pieces in place were still floundering in retirement. They had the money, but lacked the mission. That realization led him to a new chapter of his own, helping people discover what gives them meaning after the paychecks stop. He's the author of the new book, Mission Retirement, a thought provoking guide to a purposeful and fulfilling future where he shares practical tools and insights to help people prepare.

not just financially, but emotionally and psychologically for this major life change. John, welcome to the show.

Sam, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here today.

I'm excited. think this is a timely conversation. think this idea that retirement isn't just the end of a road, but at the beginning of a new one and that perhaps that we might not be as prepared as we think we are, I think is a key conversation that's needed in today's time and age. So I'm excited about this discussion. Now, John, you've had a long and successful career as a wealth advisor. You still do. What

made you pivot toward the lifestyle and purpose side of retirement and ultimately write the book Mission Retirement.

I'm getting old, these are, when I start looking at my next chapter, down the road of retirement, I realized that, you know, we all work 30 to 40 years to get the income, to get the means, have the finances, the liberty to retire. But we don't spend a lot of time, and at least most people aren't spending enough time planning out what they're going to do. And when you look at it,

Who are we all?

you

you the average age and is roughly around 80 years. If you retire at 66, 65, you're gonna spend a lot of years in retirement. And what we're finding statistically is that people are spending their retirement years lonely. And when I found that out, it was sort of shocking to me. And I wanted to...

Mm-hmm.

I wanted to make sure that as a financial advisor, we've got all the science, right? The standard and deviation, the alpha beta, we're going through your mortality, all of that. We're doing all the science, all the math. But I don't think, especially the Generation 2 advisors are spending enough time talking about what's really important for the clients. All money does is give you liberty. So when we started asking our clients what their plans were, they didn't have it. So we created Mission Retirement.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

John, I couldn't agree with you more. think I always say that most of us spend 30 to 40 years working 40 plus hours a week and, you know, jobs and careers. And that job or career is our social network. That's our sense of purpose. It's how we spend our time. think traditional model is that we suddenly decide, you know, expected on Friday.

their identity.

You know, we get our gold watch and on Monday we're supposedly, you know, have this entire calendar in front of us, the week where there's nothing filled. And this idea that, you know, a career spent in chasing goals, building a business, what have you, suddenly can be put aside overnight and you're supposed to just sail off into the sunset and enjoy the spoils, I think.

I think that's the cliche and I think you hit the nail on the head. think the part of the angst and struggles that people are having, loneliness and sense of lack of fulfillment.

I think comes from the fact that we've been trained to believe that this retirement is the Holy Grail, right? That we are working for it. You can't even tell somebody that, look, I'm bored in retirement, I'm unfulfilled, I'm lonely, et cetera, because then the perception is, at least, I want your opinion. I think the perception for a lot of people is that there's something wrong with me. know, everybody is looking forward to retirement. I can't go tell somebody.

that I'm bored, I'm unfulfilled, don't know, I've lost the sense of purpose, et cetera, because the problem is with me and it's not with the expectations of how retirement's been positioned.

Yeah. And if somebody isn't in retirement and you say that to them, you're going to seem very odd because that's everyone's goal is to retire happy. They just don't plan it. know, I, my, my coauthor in this, Kevin Burwell is a brilliant guy and Kevin and I were talking about how retirement is. we, we, you know, we, we both sort of came up with this analogy. And if you can imagine Sam, you're in a playground and you're spinning around, you got your buddy, you know, winging you around the merry-go-round, right? And you're spinning around, you're laughing.

And then all of a sudden he wants to play a trick on you and he stops it abruptly, right? And it's sort of jolting, right? It shakes you to the core of your bones. That's sort of what retirement is for a lot of people because they don't have a plan. It's just a dead stop. And they try to fill it up with like, I'm going to golf, I'll travel, I'll do all of this. But it's not defined. And you can only play so much golf, right? You can only travel so much. And we see people travel in the beginning of their retirement and not at the end. So how do you plan that out?

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Absolutely.

And so our book has 10 sections to it and it goes through, it's very easy to understand, it's a very easy read. At the end of each chapter, Kevin and I put questions along with resources, but questions. can go through the book and almost like a workbook, write through your ideas. It's great to do it with your spouse to make sure you're aligned, but you can write down your thoughts and your ideas.

about all these 10 different segments that we've listed out in retirement that we feel is important to give people a fulfilling retirement.

So I'll make a couple of points. I love that analogy about that merry-go-round that suddenly stops. I think that is such a powerful.

So Sam,

you were a kid, you had a buddy that stopped going on you?

Yes, just buddy is a nice way to put it. I don't know if that's the way I would think about it. But yes, I think it didn't just joke me. I think I had skinned elbows and knees, you know, to show for it. But I, you know, to your point about the book, I went through it with my wife. I think it's a great conversation piece. And I think the way that you've structured you and Kevin have structured the book, I think is very powerful in the way that they're

I'm

You know, it can be read very quickly, but that's not the point of it. It's to sit there to kind of prompt a conversation, prompt some reflection and thinking, and, you know, probably be a resource for you to kind of... It's not... Retirement planning isn't done in one sitting. It is something that...

You have to let sit with you the ideas and the thoughts and the questions, et cetera, and it should be mapped out. And it's funny. I would argue that we spend years planning the financial side of our retirement and we should. This is not an argument that we shouldn't do that, but there's almost next to nothing.

that is being spent on preparing for the other elements, right? The non-financial elements, whether that's social, whether it's purpose, whether it's hobbies, whether it's... And I've heard from others telling me that, you you should start thinking at least five years before retirement date of what that might look like, you know, what your calendar might look like in a typical week. What do you think? Would that be your recommendation?

I think,

yeah, I think that's accurate. And, you know, I'll use Kevin, the co-author, Kevin Burwell, as an example. He knew he was going to retire at a certain age. He worked for a large insurance carrier in, in, in, on the West coast of the United States. And he knew he was going to retire. So he's an avid outdoorsman. So he bought his hunting property. He bought some, some, I don't like a tractor to work on the property and some things all getting in preparation for that retirement. So.

Hmm.

When he when he got there, it was already that that that retirement dream was not only funded again. Money gives you liberty, but it was funded with the items he needed to make that hunting property a little special and to start working towards that goal. So I think five years is a perfect sort of way to look at it and maybe maybe break it up into chunks. know, as you said, when you went through the book, it's not a hard read and it's not intended to be.

Thank

I've had some really moving quotes that I've read in my life that have changed sort of my behaviors and that's what we wanted this book to do is to have people just sort of look inward. It doesn't give you the answers. It's thought provoking language to get you and your spouse or you in your own head thinking about what you want and how you want to be, how you want to spend your end years.

Mm-hmm.

So I think that's a good segue. You've worked with countless clients over the years. What perhaps were some of the early signs that to you that financial readiness wasn't giving you the complete picture or the clients the complete picture, that there was something deeper that perhaps might be missing in how financial advisors help people prepare for retirement?

I think it's, it's, I've seen numerous clients and I can even see my parents, um, you know, talented people. Um, my mom was a teacher and when she retired, uh, she didn't have a plan. Uh, it wasn't, you know, going and mentoring children in the schools. wasn't doing any of that was sort of like, we're going to watch TV. We're going to go out to eat and, um, we're going to have a hobby or two, but there was no plan. Now my mom is 83 years old. She's been retired for close to.

30 years and there wasn't a plan in place. And I think that we're put on this earth for purpose. And if you're not uplifting your purpose, it's sort of your moral and ethical obligation to maybe lift people up to make sure you're getting the best out of yourself. You grow and learn when you face challenges. And what better challenges to face that now that you've got the liberty of income taken care of, that you can go conquer a new skill or

Mm-hmm.

or see a new culture or deepen your spiritual activities or stewardship or work in your legacy. What a tremendous, tremendous thing. I've seen so many people, I'm a first-generation immigrant and I wanted my mom to sit down with my children and to go through her journey so we could document it. But she just didn't have an interest to do that.

you

Mm-hmm.

Right.

That's nothing against my mom. It's just that's the way she wired. And I started looking at other clients and I was seeing the same thing. And what I was seeing with a lot of the clients, especially male clients, without a purpose, the deterioration of them physically and mentally was very quick. Within two to five years of retirement, I'm doing death claims on my book of business by somebody when they were working, you know, were healthy and they had vitality.

Mm-hmm.

And without a purpose, they didn't. And they slowly started to retract from family, friends, society, and then, you know, perished. And I think there's so much talent in these older generations that we're missing as a society. I feel that with this type of book, if they dig a little deeper in themselves and what they want to do, they could plan out a hell of a retirement and really touch people that they care about in their lives.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I think every advisor listening to this episode can relate. They have all had clients that went through that exact path that you talked about. And related to this idea of purpose, I think, is this concept of identity, right? And we touched on this, that so much of our purpose and social life is tied to our work, for example. So what happens when that's gone?

Can you share an example or two of someone that you've dealt with that has struggled with that loss? hopefully there's a good news story how they might've eventually found new meaning.

Yeah, I have a client. he worked in the Midwest. He retired early and he's Haitian. He was a Haitian orphan and he dedicated and planned his retirement to go back to Haiti and to develop an orphanage. And so he had he had roots in western Michigan and he worked very hard.

Hello.

He still comes back and fund raises through church and some private corporations and stuff. He comes back two, three times a year for fundraisers, but he's literally built an orphanage in a school. And I sit there and I look at his footprint and what he's leaving behind. You know, kids that were in unsafe environments and, you know, were hungry and sick and how he's leaving a legacy. Now he also has six or seven kids on his own. So

Mm-hmm.

He's decided that he wanted to take this thing on and he built it from the ground up. he's he's really, you know, it's sort of touched me. But imagine all the people that he's touched and then their kids, that legacy and that stewardship he has, you know, reinvesting his his time, talent and resources with a purpose. It's a phenomenal story, and it's going to touch so many lives and generations will never see.

Mm-hmm.

No, it is a phenomenal story. And I think to your point beyond the, the, the, would almost call it a side effect is that the people that he's touching, right? The primary purpose, when you talk about purpose for him was to do something that he felt could, you know, use his skills, give him a sense of why he's getting up in the morning and doing what he's doing, et cetera. And you know, that

is the primary objective, I would almost argue. And the secondary benefit that he gets out of this is that he can pay it forward. He can pay back for all of the benefits that he's had to help out in some way, shape or form.

Yeah, no, it is. And I look at that and he's very admirable. you know, when you tell that story, hear that story, we all know of somebody like that. And they're elevated to a different status in our mind. And yet we don't take the, you know, couple hours a year for five years ahead of retirement, making those type of decisions and planning and working towards those goals. Again, I always look at this as what we do.

for clients there's a science and those are an art and the science is the numbers the art is how you make people feel and how you leave them and if you leave them in a better spot which is truly what you should be doing as a fiduciary.

100 % and I was smiling as you were saying this because I think I read a stat somewhere that most people spend more time planning their next vacation than they do and planning their retirement right and it sounds trite and clear but I believe that's probably true and to your point Look there's an evolution right? mean, you know as a fiduciary I totally believe that our job as advisors primarily is to make sure that

we're doing what needs to be done from a financial perspective. As you say, the technical stuff that we've anticipated, the uses of the funds that we've built a plan that we've prepared for market volatility, unexpected emergencies, all of that. as...

As the world has evolved, as these industries evolved, as clients' lives have evolved and we're living longer post-retirement, I think that the advisory, the nature of an advisor's work has to evolve as well. And think that's exactly what you're saying, that we need to be that, call it retirement coach or life coach, et cetera, to be able to...

You're not going to find them a hobby, you're not going to find them a purpose, but I do believe that it's incumbent upon us if we are the advisor of the future to help that client think through some of these issues that they may not be thinking through on their own.

Yeah, I'll take it one step further. And I think you summed it up perfectly there, but I don't want to have a caveat. If there's a financial advisor listening and they're not doing this type of work, they're going to race the bottom for costs. And there's so much AI coming and there's so much, you know, people can go on a portal with Vanguard and give them their life savings. If you're not doing this type of, as I call it, art or this type of discussions with your client,

They can put all of their assets in a box and not deal with you. This is a value added. And if I was I still have my own personal book. If I was going to go out and try to secure new clients, I would focus so heavily on this type of concept because it's adding a value that can't be duplicated without you and your team as the advisor. It just can't be duplicated. It it it it sets you apart and it makes your your your clients very sticky.

and it builds deep relationships with them. So it doesn't work anymore. You're talking to a friend about finances or what they want to do.

Right.

Now that's a great point. It's what I call the human touch, right? I think you bang on that everything else, the technical stuff is important. And a few years ago, people kind of prided themselves and set themselves apart on their stock picking ability or their asset allocation ability, et cetera. And AI can do that or is pretty soon at the point where it can do that, right? So I think the only way that your sustainable competitive advantage to use business school talk is your human touch.

If you help somebody visualize their dreams and put them into place, how is anybody going to compete against that? You own that relationship. You own the client. You've created a pathway for them that no other advisor has done or tried to do. It's really the next evolution of advice. And it's getting them to really get in touch with who they are.

100%.

and to think things out and to go through these 10 steps. you know, you say we talk about there's 10 steps in the book, they don't have to do all 10. They're not hard by any means. But maybe there's two or three that just jump out and they want to work on those. That is a great starting point, right? And that starting point will help them launch into other things and give them purpose. But when you know, when we're reading these statistics and they're all in the book about, you know, loneliness or

They're spending 10 to 11 hours a day relaxing or watching TV. What a waste of some of the talent, the institutional knowledge we have with our seniors. What a waste of resources that could make the world a better place and in turn make their lives a better place. Or even if they don't have an altruistic point, making their own lives better for their family.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

It's just a tremendous resource that we're wasting because we're not thinking it through.

No, I book, would say that, and that's assuming that the 11 hours that's on television is actually television you enjoy. And I think that's based on even with all the streaming services, I, I've got all these streaming services and I can't find anything I really want to watch. So I think to your point, I liked the idea of, you know, starting small. There's a book by, a behavioral scientist, BJ fog called tiny habits. And his whole point is he gives us an example that if you.

hate flossing your teeth and but it's you realize its importance he says start by flossing one tooth and you do that for a few days and that's all it is it's two seconds work that you have to do but after about a week of doing that you suddenly say to yourself that i'm here i might as well do a couple of more teeth right

And so you do a couple more teeth and, you know, by a few more weeks of that, then you're suddenly flossing your entire mouth, et cetera. It's this buildup of tiny habits, right? And I think that's exactly what you're suggesting. It's not, don't let the enormity of the task scare you from starting. Start with something small, whatever appeals to you or whatever is a low hanging fruit. And then, you know, let nature take its course and evolve. It'll automatically start

getting you to the next question or the next topic in your book, et cetera, that makes it relevant for them, right?

You know, you can give the book to your spouse and simply ask them of the 10 things. What is something they want to focus in, in the retirement? And what a great starting point, especially if you're a male, look at how you're incorporating and bringing your wife in these conversations and, and, listening, you know, we all get accused as husbands of not listening much. So it's what a way to involve that in and you give the 10 and that's the starting point wherever your spouse wants to start and, you know, start constructing your plan with.

with what's important to them. And then you can start chipping away, like you said, tiny habits, the other chapters. And we're not talking long chapters, as you know, Sam, you've read the book. There's seven to 10 page long chapters with some websites and stuff that you can go and research some of the concepts we talk about in the chapters. But there's also little places, and I think that's where the most important thing is, is there's little places, lines and spaces in which you can write your thoughts and your ideas. And then if you go to our website,

there's a downloadable form and you can just put it all in one and create your own Word document for the beginning of your retirement activities and plans.

That's great.

Now, I think you can probably agree with this comment that many advisors probably feel quite uncertain about how to open up and get into these more personal type of conversations, the softer conversations, if you will. What's your advice for advisors who genuinely want to support their clients in this type of thinking and conversations, but worry that they're stepping into unfamiliar territory?

Well, we have whole thing. We have a whole training program about that. I said my partner in the book and in the consulting company, Kevin Burwell, he's trained thousands of agents and we run regular training to people to show people how to use this. But we have 19 activities or ideas that you can use the book. I use them my personal practice at annual reviews and we can white label these books so it can be done in your corporate colors.

Hmm.

You as the advisor can write the forward and then your mugshot's placed on the cover. So almost like an NIL deal, right? Your name likeness we can do the book in. But what a great gift to give your clients at renewals, or excuse me, not renewals, but reviews. And then also if you're doing seminars or you're doing prospecting meetings, what a way to sit down and start a relationship that's so dramatically different than any other advisor.

Mm-hmm.

That's great. Now, you've said before that retirement isn't a finish line. It's a transition into a whole new chapter. But as we all know, that transitions can be messy. What are some of the emotional or psychological roadblocks that tend to surface? And how can advisors help clients anticipate and prepare for them?

I think you know, you've mentioned behavioral psychology. Change is the hardest thing we have to overcome as human beings. So preparing and talking through them, through the change and what's going to happen is probably the best thing. It's like, you know, give them a little prep or check sheet to go through it and give them the book and have them walk through it. But I think having those conversations years in advance and talking to them about

your experience as an advisor because that adds value, right? You're talking about your experience, not gloating or trying to self promote, but just talking about that client that you had that retired that passed on early because they were inactive or didn't have a lived long time. It didn't have a fulfilling retirement and that you don't want to see that happen with them. And this is a way that you could work with them to make sure that that doesn't happen. I think those conversations

should be a third of a review meeting as you're going into your retirement years and as you so accurately pointed out five years before retirement. Those are great conversations to have to start getting them to think about it because change is the hardest thing we have to do as a human being.

Totally agree. It seems to be getting harder every year. now in your line of work, you've probably seen some truly, I would call it transformative retirements, know, people that maybe started off drifting and then they really managed to figure it out with or without your help. And they started going from drifting to living with clear purpose.

Can you share an example or two and maybe pinpoint what might have made the difference in that transition?

Yeah, I'll give you an example. have a family that had a business owner. They sold the business. They did quite well. The kids were not part of the business. They didn't want anything to do with it. So they sold it to a strategic buyer and he had a pile of cash and he had some ideas on what he wanted to do with that to support the community because it's a community business. And we talked about mission retirement. I said, why don't you share this with your children?

Mm-hmm.

you know, passing on your personal legacy, stewardship with some of the two of the ten missions in the book. And he did. And what they did is pretty interesting. He's giving the money now to the community through his children. And what it's doing is allowing the children to really see what the values are for that mom and dad that raised them. Now they know it, right? But now it's seeing it in living person and now they're part of it. So

Mm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

They do a pretty cool thing. They go out west skiing every year and beginning of the year. know, grandma and grandpa who have the funds pay for everyone to go to this pricey resort. They do a family meeting and they decide where money is going to go in the charity, who's going to attend and represent the family. There's three children in the family and one lives away from where the other two live and where the charity is occurring. So

Mm.

They they determine who's going to come in for what event and how the family is going to interact and say thank you to the community and help it. And they almost have like it's a it's a boardroom type meeting that he's constructed and goes through. And they bring in the accountant, they bring in the advisor, the attorney if they need it. But they have a family sort of a family office meeting. But it's it's it's too small to have a family office, right? But.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

It is, it is, it's really cool to see how the kids are getting to see the principles of the parents again later in life. They saw it when they were, they were being raised, but now they're truly seeing it again. And what a lasting imprint that's going to make. And he's really, he's, he's, he's promoting his legacy and creating his personal legacy. We all think we, that happens when you die. He's doing it ahead of time. And I just think it's a really cool way to.

Mm-hmm.

touch the community and to, you you're running the business of the family like a business, but you're also doing it for the benefit of other people to help promote your morals and your values in the community in which you made all the money. So.

Mm-hmm.

I love that. And I've seen that work with many wealthy families. And I think the added benefit beyond the fact that as you rightly put it, eloquently put it, you're putting your values to work, the kids are seeing the values to work, but they are adult children and inevitably there's going to be, especially the one that is living away, et cetera, that they're going to be...

you know, separating, they're not going to be as close as they were when they were kids, and there's going to be the typical sibling rivalry as it grows. what I've seen work, and it sounds like in this case, is that because they're working together for a third party cause, there is less ego, there's less, okay,

I want this, if I get this, you don't get that, et cetera. There's none of the zero sum game that's working. The money is already dedicated towards a charitable cause and you three siblings have to work together to figure out how to put that cause, move that forward, et cetera. So it achieves, I think, brilliantly this idea of both promoting the values, giving back.

but also creating a closer relationship between the next generation.

Yeah, you know, they also they also see if things are managed right, how it's going to be for the benefit of them too, because, this gentleman decided to disclose all the finances and everything. And he's really did a well, he did a really nice job. And, you know, he's all got he's got great. They've got great children. They're all, you know, successful and educated and their own rights. So, you know, he's about four years into this. They look to it as a family retreat.

The family retreat in meeting and they, they meet on a, they all come in on a Friday. They meet a Saturday morning in a boardroom and then they ski Saturday, Sunday and do a big Sunday dinner. And then Monday, is an optional day. They sometimes they say, sometimes they can't cause of work obligations, the children. but yeah, then they take off on Monday. So, it's a great getaway. It's in the calendar. It's the same weekend every month or every year, excuse me. So, they plan all around it.

Mm-hmm.

That's awesome.

Mm-hmm.

And it's really sort of cool because it comes right after Christmas, about six weeks after Christmas, four weeks after Christmas in there. so, you know, it's another way to get the family together. And it's just done very, very smartly.

Mm-hmm.

Now that's a great example, John. Thanks for sharing. Now, if an advisor is listening and thinking, okay, John's convinced me, I believe this really matters, but how do I bring this into my practice? What's the first step that you would advise they take to start integrating this softer side into their conversations?

Yeah, thank you. I think the first thing they do is they set up a call with myself or Kevin Burwall. You can go to our website, which is catalyst, the word catalyst, the number for growth.org catalyst for growth.org. You can go there, send us an email. We'll set up a time. We'll call, learn a little bit about your practice. You know, I've coached hundreds, not thousands of advisors. So we'll find out a little bit about your practice, see if it works to implement something like this.

And then we can go over how you can buy, you can buy this on Amazon. If you just search Burwell, B-E-R-W-A-L-D or my name, which is Colunas, a little tougher K-A-I-L-U-N-A-S or Mission Retirement will pop up on Kindle or Amazon. But if you want to buy it in bulk or what I said earlier, white label it, you know, use that N-I-L-D-O-M, do the forward and everything. There's different prices obviously when you custom print it. So we'll cover those with you, see what it does. The whole process, if you decide.

If you decide to go ahead with it, it takes about a month and you can have, we do them in a box of 100 books and you can have 100 books to give your clients and help deepen those relationships in your practice.

That's great. So John, we're coming to the end of our episode. So I have a few rapid fire questions that I ask all of my guests. If you're ready.

I am ready.

So number one, professionally, what is the most important lesson you've learned over the years?

Humility.

Can you expand on that?

I think in our business, the first tough years are hell. And then after that, you you're underpaid the first five to 10 years after your career. And then after that, you're overpaid. And I think a lot of people I've watched and I've coached and I've mentored and have been in our broker dealer RIA. I've seen them get very arrogant and they miss the whole point of helping others and also being respectful to those that help them got to that space.

their head gets bigger than their talent and it usually ends up in a bad space either economically or individually in their family. You know they lose relationships. So I think humility is something as you get more more successful in this business you have to really have a good handle on it.

love that, John. I couldn't agree with you more. And I would dare say that it probably applies in all fields, right, for all of us, et cetera, that, you know, we can never forget where we started and that, you know, be grateful for what we got. We've worked hard for it, but, you know, what was the original reason for coming into this? And are we still living that purpose, right?

Yeah

What is one

Practicing gratitude around you, especially the people that support and help you, should be a daily occurrence.

Yeah.

Too true. And in our rush and daily, I get it. We live in a hectic world and a hectic lives, but.

It's tough

if you're not consciously thinking of it's like mission retirement. If you're not thinking about your retirement and planning it, you don't think about gratitude and practice it. It gets lost. We have to be very deliberate with our actions.

And I think that's a good general piece of advice for people. We do so many things mindlessly, especially multitasking, et cetera. My wife always tells me that...

you know, and I've gotten better at it. But, you know, we've lived 20 years ago where this idea that you could multitask and that's the way to do things is, was prevalent, but there's a lot of research and that's a whole different topic. There's a lot of research that shows that you actually can't multitask, whatever anyone tells you. It takes you, know, 20 minutes to switch between one task to the other. And, you know, if you're, if you're re-switching back to the next task, et cetera, you don't really get any deep thought or deep work done.

I am probably the perfect example, Sam, of doing that. Something I've got to work on. Something I got to work on. As you're saying it, I'm thinking like, man, we might be married to the same lady because I get that get that told by my wife.

We all are. I again, I'm good.

I'm going to blame it on the fact that we're all, you know, both approaching retirement. so this was in our, when early in our careers, this was what we were, it was drummed into us that we can multitask that you only need four hours of sleep and all of that, et cetera. So it's not our fault. It's how we were, you know, how we were trained. So.

and

Well, that was back in the day, right? Now it's the

world's changed and that's probably been a good positive thing of the evolution of the workplace.

Yeah, I would say so. And finally, what is one practical tip you would offer listeners keen on applying your insights?

One practical tip is I mentioned it a little bit earlier here. Be deliberate with your actions. Be deliberate in saying thank you to people, especially your clients. Do random acts of kindness. If you, you know, I know you're a hockey fams, Sam, if you were a client of mine and I saw an article about the Habs, I'd forward it to you and say, hey, Sam, I was thinking of you. Handwritten notes.

Right. I appreciate being on your podcast. It's a great podcast. Thank you for all that you did to help promote mission retirement. I think those moments and I'll use the term deliberate, that we archive those and share those with people. it would make it an easier workplace. It would make it more fun, and much more personable. I think deliberate actions, as long as they're positive actions.

I think that's great. John, this has been a delightful conversation. think listeners will walk away with a new perspective on what retirement really means and how we as advisors can show up differently for our clients. I know you've mentioned it, but again, if listeners want to learn more about you or find out about your book, where should they go?

Thank you. On Amazon and Kindle, you can just search the last name Burwell B-E-R-W-A-L-D or Kalunis K-A-I-L-U-N-A-S. You know, the two authors of the book. The book is called Mission Retirement. You can search under that. If you want to be coached in how to use this and we do the coaching for free because you're purchasing the books from us, you'll purchase them in bulk. You can reach us at Catalyst, the word catalyst, the number four.

growth. So it's all one word catalyst for growth dot org. Pop us an email. We'll have one of our team members schedule a time and we'll sit down and chat.

Awesome. John, this has been a great conversation and thank you for joining us today on the Future Ready Advisor.

Damn it's been an honor to be on this podcast. Thank you very much. You was a great host and a great time and hopefully we can be back one day.

I would love to have you. Thanks, John.

Take care.