On this episode, Mike and Jason discuss the upcoming NBA season, focusing on the Eastern Conference teams and their over/under win totals. They analyze each team's roster, coaching changes, and potential for success or failure. The conversation covers a range of topics, including the Atlanta Hawks' transition, the Boston Celtics' chemistry issues, the Brooklyn Nets' struggles, and the Cleveland Cavaliers' potential as a lock for the over. The hosts also touch on the Miami Heat's health concerns, the New York Knicks' risky trade for Karl-Anthony Towns, and the rebuilding phase of the Toronto Raptors and Washington Wizards.

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Mike: 00:01:03

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: 00:01:59

Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads podcast.

: 00:02:02

It's Mike cleansing here with my co host Jason Sunkel tonight.

: 00:02:05

And we are fast approaching the beginning of.

: 00:02:09

Thank God,: 2024

: 00:02:14

Thank God.

Mike: 00:02:14

Mike.

Mike: 00:02:15

Mike, I'm just going to say this right now.

Mike: 00:02:16

We are not talking about the Cleveland Browns today.

Mike: 00:02:19

I cannot even fathom having more of a discussion than saying we are not going to talk about the Cleveland Browns at the end of this episode.

Mike: 00:02:25

I cannot.

Mike: 00:02:26

I cannot stomach a five minute discussion about them.

Mike: 00:02:29

So that's all I'm going to say.

: 00:02:30

That's fair.

: 00:02:31

That's fair.

: 00:02:31

I'm.

: 00:02:32

I'm fine with stepping the Brown.

: 00:02:34

Notice what I'm wearing today.

Mike: 00:02:35

I'm wearing the Guardian shirt.

Jason Sunkel: 00:02:37

I'm excited for the playoffs.

Jason Sunkel: 00:02:39

The Guardians and the playoffs starting Saturday.

: 00:02:42

Yeah, I hope Tomi has a good postseason this year.

Mike: 00:02:45

Hey, listen, don't let go.

Mike: 00:02:46

Don't let Mike fool you.

Jason Sunkel: 00:02:47

He likes postseason baseball.

Jason Sunkel: 00:02:49

Mike does like postseason baseball because it's postseason baseball and it's not 162 games.

: 00:02:54

He's going to say all these funny things.

: 00:02:56

That doesn't mean.

: 00:02:57

That doesn't mean I can name more than five players on the Guardians.

: 00:03:00

But, yes, I will be paying attention to at least Guardians.

: 00:03:05

Postseason baseball.

: 00:03:06

I still do love postseason baseball.

: 00:03:07

The problem is because I don't follow baseball at all during the regular season.

: 00:03:12

My level of interest in the postseason is diminished because I just don't know the teams and the players.

Mike: 00:03:17

Here's what I'm gonna say.

Mike: 00:03:18

Here's what I wanna say.

Jason Sunkel: 00:03:18

The Tigers won tonight.

Mike: 00:03:20

The Tigers and the Royals both won today, Mike.

Jason Sunkel: 00:03:22

So that means that we're one win away or from each of those teams in the next two games.

Jason Sunkel: 00:03:29

They both win.

Mike: 00:03:30

We're going with three AL central teams and the New York Yankees in the AL.

: 00:03:35

All right, there we go.

Mike: 00:03:37

Because in the Astro law, I would.

Jason Sunkel: 00:03:39

Love if the Astros were outd, that would make me.

Jason Sunkel: 00:03:41

That would make me so happy.

: 00:03:45

How did Kirk Gibson do today?

Mike: 00:03:50

All right, let's just move on to.

Jason Sunkel: 00:03:51

What we were actually going to talk about.

Jason Sunkel: 00:03:52

So we're going to talk about Easter Conference over and unders, right, Mike?

Mike: 00:03:56

Easter.

: 00:03:56

Yes, we are.

Mike: 00:03:57

Eastern Conference over.

Mike: 00:03:58

So every year, you know, it's a really original podcasting gimmick that we're running here.

Mike: 00:04:06

But we do Eastern, we do an.

Jason Sunkel: 00:04:08

Over under of the.

Jason Sunkel: 00:04:09

Of the teams in the Eastern Conference and the Western Conference, and then the last week, I think we're going to bring back the wins draft, right, Mike?

Jason Sunkel: 00:04:18

We're going to bring back the wins and losses.

: 00:04:19

We got to do that.

: 00:04:20

We got it.

: 00:04:20

We got to do.

: 00:04:21

Last year.

: 00:04:21

We did.

: 00:04:22

I went back and looked at our sort of NBA preseason.

: 00:04:26

We did over and unders.

: 00:04:27

We did the wins slash losses draft.

: 00:04:31

And we also keep on that.

Jason Sunkel: 00:04:33

By the way, are we doing.

Jason Sunkel: 00:04:34

I guess when we do that, Mike?

: 00:04:36

I do.

: 00:04:37

What are we doing?

: 00:04:37

Listen, man, I'll take you out for pizza anytime you want.

: 00:04:40

I'm ready.

: 00:04:41

Let's do it.

Mike: 00:04:42

Okay.

: 00:04:43

I'm up.

: 00:04:43

I'm up for it.

: 00:04:44

I'm up for it.

: 00:04:44

You got to get some.

: 00:04:45

You got to get some permissions.

: 00:04:47

You got to get.

: 00:04:48

Tea leaves are pretty right now, so you got to get that.

: 00:04:51

You got to get the permissions in order for that to happen.

: 00:04:53

So, yeah, I'm ready for you.

Mike: 00:04:55

Okay.

Jason Sunkel: 00:04:55

What were you going to say?

: 00:04:56

We also did that.

: 00:04:57

We also did the tears, so we had the.

: 00:05:00

We can win it.

: 00:05:01

We think we can win it.

: 00:05:03

We can't win it.

: 00:05:04

I have them all written down, so I think we did that maybe as part of the preview, if I'm not mistaken.

: 00:05:11

I don't know how we're going to.

Jason Sunkel: 00:05:12

Get this all in like, we got.

: 00:05:14

We only have to figure it out.

Mike: 00:05:17

We might have to.

Jason Sunkel: 00:05:21

The tier.

Mike: 00:05:21

Maybe the tier.

Jason Sunkel: 00:05:22

Maybe the tiers are like, after the first week of the season, maybe we could.

: 00:05:25

Or the tears could be part of the preview.

: 00:05:27

The tears could also be part of the preview because it allows you to talk.

Jason Sunkel: 00:05:29

And we just got to do the Easter Cod.

Jason Sunkel: 00:05:31

We're doing the Easter Conference today.

Jason Sunkel: 00:05:32

We're doing the west to conference next week, and then we got to do the wins, losses draft.

Jason Sunkel: 00:05:36

And that's going to, that's going to take some time.

Jason Sunkel: 00:05:38

And then that's not even including the preview.

: 00:05:40

All right, we'll figure it out.

: 00:05:42

We'll get it.

: 00:05:42

We're two smart guys.

: 00:05:44

We can figure it out.

Mike: 00:05:45

Yeah.

Jason Sunkel: 00:05:46

Theoretically, we have a roll out, three hour NBA episode that everyone's going to listen to.

: 00:05:52

All right, over unders, man.

: 00:05:53

Let's go.

Mike: 00:05:54

Let's go.

Jason Sunkel: 00:05:55

All right, so we're going to start, we're going to go alphabetically by city.

Jason Sunkel: 00:05:57

There's no rhyme or reason to this other than it's alphabetically.

Jason Sunkel: 00:06:00

And we're going to start with the Atlanta Hawks.

Jason Sunkel: 00:06:04

And I thought, well, I'll say the over under for the Atlanta Hawks is 36 and a half, Mike, and I think that is a high number.

Jason Sunkel: 00:06:14

I'm going under.

Jason Sunkel: 00:06:15

That is a high number for a.

Mike: 00:06:17

Team that traded their second best and.

Jason Sunkel: 00:06:19

For most of last, for portions of last season, their best player.

Jason Sunkel: 00:06:24

I I just cannot, I cannot say.

Jason Sunkel: 00:06:26

See how they get to 36 or 37 wins.

Jason Sunkel: 00:06:30

I'm saying the under for the Atlanta.

: 00:06:34

Hawks, they brought in the number one pick in the draft, man.

: 00:06:39

You don't think recesse is going to turn things around for the Hawks?

Jason Sunkel: 00:06:43

Oh, come on now.

: 00:06:44

No, no.

Jason Sunkel: 00:06:47

Wembanyama didn't get them, did the spurs?

Jason Sunkel: 00:06:51

And this guy is not Wembanyama.

Jason Sunkel: 00:06:53

Come on.

: 00:06:53

You're not, you're not a recess shade truther.

Mike: 00:06:56

I'll be honest with you, Mike.

Mike: 00:06:57

Until you just said his name, I couldn't have told you.

Mike: 00:06:59

Who the jog strapped?

: 00:07:02

All right, well, hey, you're, I guess you're probably right there with 98% of Americans, and it probably, if I, if.

Mike: 00:07:10

You gave me five guys and put them in a lineup, I couldn't pick.

Jason Sunkel: 00:07:13

That guy out of the lineup.

: 00:07:15

I would say that's probably true, too.

: 00:07:17

That I probably could not do.

: 00:07:18

I would have agree with you there.

: 00:07:20

All right, so the Atlanta Hawks, as you said, they trade away Dejante Murray, realizing that the Murray Trae young backcourt was not going to be their path to title contention, the big question with Atlanta, and we've talked about it before, is how long do you continue to hit your wagon to the trae young experience and think that that is going to eventually lead you anywhere?

: 00:07:50

And now, again, this is what the caveat that they did get to the Eastern Conference finals and Trey did have a tremendous playoff run, totally different.

Jason Sunkel: 00:08:01

That was with a totally different roster, and that was three.

: 00:08:03

I understand.

: 00:08:04

Look, I understand.

: 00:08:05

I'm just saying that if you're the Atlanta Hawks, maybe that's what you're hanging your hat on, that if we can put, now, look, they got a ton of breaks to get to the Eastern Conference finals.

: 00:08:15

The same way, I think you look at what Indiana did last year, and maybe you get there when in all likelihood, had things been or gone the way that everybody expected to, teams didn't get hurt.

: 00:08:31

Atlanta doesn't get to Eastern Conference finals.

: 00:08:33

What was that in: 2021

: 00:08:37

Yeah.

: 00:08:40

And clearly Indiana probably doesn't get to the Eastern Conference finals last year without all the injuries to the Knicks, so.

: 00:08:48

But if you're the Atlanta management and you want to say, hey, we're going to try to build a team around Trey Young, it's possible.

: 00:08:56

I don't think it's the right strategy.

: 00:08:58

I don't know that with his lack of defense, it just makes it really tough because Trey Young is not a guy that goes both ways, and as a result of that, it makes it really difficult.

: 00:09:13

You have to put a very specific type of team around Trey Young.

: 00:09:17

And I just look at this roster and I don't know that it makes much sense in terms of what do you do?

: 00:09:26

Like, there's clearly guys on this team that Atlanta doesn't want.

: 00:09:31

It doesn't want to pay DeAndre Hunter.

: 00:09:33

I'm sure that they could ship him out as soon as possible.

Jason Sunkel: 00:09:39

I don't know.

: 00:09:39

It to me, I agree with you.

: 00:09:42

I think I'm going to go under on the Atlanta Hawks.

: 00:09:45

I just don't know what the Hawks have or what the plan is.

: 00:09:49

Did you know Larry Nance is on the Hawks?

Jason Sunkel: 00:09:51

Yeah, he got traded when they traded for, when what's his name got traded.

: 00:09:58

When Shanti Murray.

: 00:09:59

They also picked up Dyson Daniel.

: 00:10:01

They also picked up Dyson Daniels from the Pelicans, who is a guy that there wasn't much playing time and for, for him in New Orleans, but he could maybe be a guy that could develop or blossom into something.

: 00:10:14

He sort of fits next to Trey Young, theoretically because of young shooting, and Daniels isn't as much of a shooter, more of a defender.

: 00:10:20

So Atlanta has some interesting pieces.

: 00:10:25

If Rhys ends up being a good player, they have Jalen John Johnson, who's 22 years old and had a really, really good season last year.

: 00:10:33

In between injuries, there's some things here.

: 00:10:37

But again, I think if you're trying to build around Trey Young, I'm not buying it.

Jason Sunkel: 00:10:42

Like, nope.

Mike: 00:10:44

To me, he's going to get hurt.

Jason Sunkel: 00:10:46

At some point during the season, right.

Jason Sunkel: 00:10:48

He's going to get hurt.

Jason Sunkel: 00:10:49

His, historically, is the last few years he's been out in games because he turns his ankle.

Mike: 00:10:55

I just, it's a lot of things you're.

: 00:10:58

I don't see the plan.

: 00:10:59

Yeah, I don't see the plan here.

: 00:11:01

I don't see the plan.

: 00:11:03

I don't know.

: 00:11:04

Again, if the plan is to build around Trey, I just don't know that that's a, that's a pathway to long term success.

: 00:11:13

It'll be interesting.

: 00:11:13

I know we've been predicting that Trey Young's going to be on a different team for a while now.

: 00:11:18

But when I look at the, this roster, it seems like they have some interesting pieces, parts and guys that could be solid rotation players on good teams.

: 00:11:30

But I don't know that if this collection of pieces, I'm just not sure what it ends up looking like.

: 00:11:38

I don't even know what their, what their starting lineup is going to be.

: 00:11:42

I mean, are you going to start?

: 00:11:42

Are you going to continue to bring Bob Danovich off the bench?

: 00:11:46

Do you start capella or a Kong woo?

: 00:11:49

Is DeAndre Hunter still a starter?

: 00:11:52

Do you bring in Daniels?

: 00:11:53

Is he the guy in the backcourt at 21 years old that you put next to Trey Young?

: 00:11:59

I mean, Jalen Johnson is probably their most important long term player.

: 00:12:02

He's the guy who's, I think, shown the most at age 22 as a guy who could be sort of that all around type of guy that you could build around.

: 00:12:12

But, I mean, I don't know this roster.

: 00:12:16

Like I said, I like some of the pieces on here, but I like them as my 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th man in a rotation.

: 00:12:24

And I'm not sure they have anybody near the top.

: 00:12:26

So I'm going to go under on Atlanta.

Mike: 00:12:28

We're on for 150 minutes podcast.

Jason Sunkel: 00:12:31

This is going to be good.

: 00:12:32

All right, there we go.

: 00:12:33

What was the, what was the number for Atlanta again?

Jason Sunkel: 00:12:35

36.

: 00:12:37

36 and a half.

: 00:12:38

All right, I'm just writing these down.

: 00:12:39

All right, let's go.

Jason Sunkel: 00:12:40

Right, the defending champions, the Boston Celtics, they're over.

Jason Sunkel: 00:12:46

Under is 58 and a half.

Jason Sunkel: 00:12:51

I am going under and I'm going to explain why I'm going under 58 and a half.

Mike: 00:12:57

I think there's going to be some.

Jason Sunkel: 00:12:58

Friction after the Olympic snub of the finals mvp.

Jason Sunkel: 00:13:04

I think there's going to be some letdown.

Jason Sunkel: 00:13:06

I think some like, and part of this is me wishing it upon them.

Jason Sunkel: 00:13:12

Okay, let's be clear.

Jason Sunkel: 00:13:14

I don't want them to do well, but at the same time, I just.

Mike: 00:13:17

Feel like teams in the east that.

Jason Sunkel: 00:13:21

Were bubble teams are going to be a little more, you know, not bubble teams, but like younger teams that are now more experienced and we'll talk about them later.

Mike: 00:13:33

I think they're going to be better.

Jason Sunkel: 00:13:35

I think the theoretical New York Knicks, which we'll talk about once because that trade's not been consummated yet, but it happens, officially happens.

Jason Sunkel: 00:13:46

The Knicks, theoretically, you know, we'll have it at discussion when we get there, are better.

Jason Sunkel: 00:13:50

I think the Cavs, I think, are going to be better this year because they actually have a coach that seemingly knows what the heck he's doing.

Jason Sunkel: 00:13:56

Milwaukee is going to be better.

Jason Sunkel: 00:13:59

Philly, I don't know about.

Jason Sunkel: 00:14:03

We'll talk about them, too, but I just think Celtics aren't going to have as many wins.

Jason Sunkel: 00:14:10

I think there's theoretical chance that they could be the one seed, but I could see them being as low as the four seed.

Jason Sunkel: 00:14:19

Think back to what year was that, Mike, that the Cavs were.

Jason Sunkel: 00:14:26

They were the one seed in the next year.

Jason Sunkel: 00:14:28

This was LeBron second stint.

Jason Sunkel: 00:14:29

I feel like they, they were like the three or the four seed, weren't they?

Jason Sunkel: 00:14:33

Like, they just kind of fell off a little bit.

: 00:14:35

Coasted.

: 00:14:35

Yeah, coasted through the regular because, because.

Jason Sunkel: 00:14:38

They know what they need.

Jason Sunkel: 00:14:39

They need to play, they need to be peaking at the right time.

Jason Sunkel: 00:14:41

And, you know, I just think, I just don't think they're going to have them as many wins.

Jason Sunkel: 00:14:46

I'm not, I'm not sold on them getting this 59, 60 wins, but, but maybe I'm just a negative Nancy or maybe I'm just a wishful thinker that I don't want them to get that high.

: 00:14:56

What do you think is the potential chemistry slash personality slash coming off the weird things that happen in terms of Jalen Brown winning the Eastern Conference MVP and the finals MVP, Tatum's Olympics, Brown.

Jason Sunkel: 00:15:14

Tatum getting the highest paid contract.

: 00:15:16

Right.

: 00:15:16

Derek White being on the team?

: 00:15:18

I mean, there's a lot of things that have gone on with this team.

: 00:15:21

Which one do you think is the, which one do you think has the biggest potential to this team?

Jason Sunkel: 00:15:28

Prediction.

Jason Sunkel: 00:15:32

Jalen Brown by the end of the season is going to be Kyrie Irving.

Jason Sunkel: 00:15:35

He's going to want out.

: 00:15:40

Because why?

Jason Sunkel: 00:15:45

Because Jason Tatum is going to be a diva or something stupid is going to happen.

Jason Sunkel: 00:15:49

I.

Jason Sunkel: 00:15:50

I just think based on everything that's happened, he wasn't thrilled that he was not chosen.

Jason Sunkel: 00:15:54

Derek White gets on the all star team or on the Olympic team.

Jason Sunkel: 00:15:58

He doesn't.

Jason Sunkel: 00:15:59

I just think there's going to be some issues here.

Jason Sunkel: 00:16:02

These guys, listen, they are as good.

Jason Sunkel: 00:16:05

They're, they're great NBA.

Jason Sunkel: 00:16:06

They're NBA players.

Jason Sunkel: 00:16:07

Okay, I get it.

Jason Sunkel: 00:16:09

But their egos are too big.

Jason Sunkel: 00:16:13

And there's a reason that they're that big.

Jason Sunkel: 00:16:15

They've been told for years and years they're the guy.

Jason Sunkel: 00:16:17

He literally wins the finals in the Easter Conference championship or finals mvp.

Jason Sunkel: 00:16:23

Doesn't even.

Jason Sunkel: 00:16:24

I don't even think they were sniffing to gas Jalen Brown to play in the Olympics, which is crazy because he had a great two series.

Jason Sunkel: 00:16:33

Like he was probably, you think of book back, Mike at those playoffs, he was probably the second best or the best player in the whole playoffs and was the hottest player and especially the last two series.

Jason Sunkel: 00:16:45

Like, how could you not want him on your team?

Jason Sunkel: 00:16:48

I know.

Jason Sunkel: 00:16:49

I don't want to try to legislate the Olympics and I'm not trying to legislate fit.

Jason Sunkel: 00:16:52

I'm just saying I don't get it.

Jason Sunkel: 00:16:54

I mean, the second Kawhi goes down, they play the same position.

Jason Sunkel: 00:17:00

How is he not the replacement?

Jason Sunkel: 00:17:04

You went with a short, shorter, scrappier guy, I guess, but I just don't get it.

Jason Sunkel: 00:17:09

I think there's going to be chemistry issues for sure.

Jason Sunkel: 00:17:11

And I think he's Kyrie.

Jason Sunkel: 00:17:12

hink he's Kyrie Irving on the: 2017

Jason Sunkel: 00:17:16

And then he's gone.

Jason Sunkel: 00:17:18

Checked out.

Jason Sunkel: 00:17:20

He's going to go on some, like, sabbatical or mensa retreat, just like Kyrie, and be gone.

Jason Sunkel: 00:17:29

That I just.

: 00:17:30

Okay.

: 00:17:31

All right.

: 00:17:32

So here's my take on the Celtics.

: 00:17:34

I think that I agree with you from a standpoint of Jalen Brown and the disappointment of not being chosen for the Olympic team and the fact that Kawhi goes out and Jalen Brown is at least a far more similar player to Kawhi than Derek White was.

: 00:17:52

So it seems odd why he wasn't given more of a look in terms of bringing him onto the roster.

: 00:18:00

Now the question then becomes, does that impact materially what the Celtics do or what the Celtics are going to be?

: 00:18:06

And I kind of think that those issues with Jalen Brown are really not.

: 00:18:14

To me, there's two more critical issues when you start thinking about where are the Celtics going to finish.

: 00:18:18

So they won 64 games last year, and typically teams at the top of each conference are going to win 60 games.

: 00:18:29

Typically there's at least one team every season that wins 60 games.

: 00:18:34

And so if you ask yourself who's going to finish at the top of the Eastern Conference, I think that you still have to say that Boston probably has pretty good odds of being at the top.

Mike: 00:18:48

Oh, here's a spoiler, Mike.

Mike: 00:18:49

They have the highest win loss ratio.

Mike: 00:18:52

Not even close to anyone else.

: 00:18:54

Yeah.

Mike: 00:18:54

Or the highest over under.

: 00:18:56

I'm sorry, got you.

: 00:18:57

Which I would agree with.

: 00:19:00

So I think that's the case for the over.

: 00:19:04

I think that the chemistry issues as far as Brown, Tatum, Derek White, all that stuff, maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like the Celtics, despite the fact of what happened over the summer, I feel like getting to a championship after coming relatively close for a number of years, I feel like that's going to kind of allow them to not be as affected by that chemistry stuff as we might think.

: 00:19:35

However, I do think that there are two issues that Boston is going to have to deal with.

: 00:19:41

One is they were a completely different team last year when Porzingis was on the floor versus when Porzingis was off the floor.

: 00:19:48

And when you start talking about a regular season where Porzingis may not be back until January and now you have Al Horford, whos 38 years old and how many minutes do you want Al playing?

: 00:20:04

How many back to backs do you want Al playing?

: 00:20:06

And they really don't have anybody else that can replace Horford.

: 00:20:12

I guess you're going to play Luke Cornett as your starting center at that point.

: 00:20:17

So the downgrade from Porzingis with Horford coming off the bench to Horford with Luke Cornett coming off the bench, to me, that, that's a big issue when I start talking about regular season wins.

Mike: 00:20:29

Wait, wait, wait.

: 00:20:30

Stop, stop.

: 00:20:31

Didn't Horford retiree?

: 00:20:33

I don't think so.

Mike: 00:20:36

I swear I heard Al Horror retired.

: 00:20:38

Was retiring.

: 00:20:39

I don't think so.

: 00:20:39

I have, I have the roster pulled up right here and I have not heard that Al Horford retired.

: 00:20:45

So I don't know, maybe you were reading NBA centell.

Mike: 00:20:48

Oh, no.

Mike: 00:20:49

Okay.

: 00:20:50

Maybe you thought you were checking NBA Central and you were on NBA centel.

Mike: 00:20:54

Um, maybe I thought I heard it in a podcast.

Jason Sunkel: 00:20:57

He did not retire.

Jason Sunkel: 00:20:58

I apologize.

Mike: 00:21:00

I think this might be, I think he may have hinted at this as being his last year, but maybe I, maybe I conflated it, too.

: 00:21:06

But that could, that could be.

Jason Sunkel: 00:21:07

So.

: 00:21:07

Anyway, I think that.

: 00:21:08

I think the center situation with Porzingis is an issue then.

: 00:21:12

I think the second thing is you look at the postseason that Tatum had, and granted, Celtics win a title, but you and I spent a lot of the postseason last year talking about the issues, the challenges that Jason Tatum has as the alpha dog of a team and why we felt like he was a second tier superstar.

: 00:21:35

And I think that proved out over the course of last year's playoffs.

: 00:21:38

And then he goes into the Olympics and he shot, what, one for 17 outside of like 15ft?

: 00:21:46

And like, that's something that, that's concerning to me if I'm a Boston Celtics fan, in that Tatum really hasn't shot the ball tremendously well the last couple of seasons from three, and yet he still kind of treats himself like a 40% three point shooter.

: 00:22:05

And so I wonder where Tatum's game is going to be at.

: 00:22:10

And so for those two reasons, that's why I think the Celtics probably are not going to win as many games as they wondez last year.

: 00:22:20

The question becomes, can they get above that 58 and a half?

: 00:22:25

And I'm going to go, man, this is hard.

: 00:22:29

As much as I don't want to, I'm going to go over that on the Celtics because I think, I still think they're the best team in the Eastern Conference.

: 00:22:35

I'm going to go over on the 58 and a half.

Mike: 00:22:37

We're still on pace for two and a half hours.

: 00:22:40

All right, number three, this one's going to.

: 00:22:42

This one's going to go fast.

Mike: 00:22:44

The Brooklyn Nets over under.

Mike: 00:22:46

I'm gonna let you go first in this one, Mike.

Mike: 00:22:48

18 and a half.

Mike: 00:22:52

This is the lowest.

Mike: 00:22:53

We went from the highest to the lowest.

: 00:22:55

Mike.

Mike: 00:22:58

I'm gonna let you, I'm gonna let you take this one for 18 and a half.

Mike: 00:23:01

That's a small amount.

: 00:23:03

That is a low, low, low number.

: 00:23:05

You have to be really, really bad to win 18 games in the NBA.

: 00:23:11

But I look at the Brooklyn Nets roster and I honestly, other than maybe watching Cam Thomas shoot like 30 times a game, I don't really know what you're getting out of this team.

Mike: 00:23:32

So what you're saying.

Mike: 00:23:33

So you were just saying is the Cavs are going to have a dumb loss to them at some point in the season.

: 00:23:37

At some point, yes.

: 00:23:38

At some point the Cavs will have a dumb loss to camp.

: 00:23:41

Thomas will go for like 47.

: 00:23:43

And that will cause, I mean, you look at this Nets roster and there's some guys that I guess can be, okay, fine role players on a good team.

: 00:23:57

So Nick Claxton can be a good role player on a good team.

: 00:24:00

Dorian Finney Smith can be a good role player on a good team.

: 00:24:03

Cam Johnson can be a good role player on a good team.

: 00:24:10

Camp Thomas can score on a bad team.

: 00:24:12

I don't know where he fits on a good team.

: 00:24:15

Ben Simmons is Ben Simmons.

: 00:24:18

There just isn't anything on this roster unless there was some miracle revival of first or second year Philadelphia 76 or Ben Simmons, which I would put that the odds of that at.

: 00:24:30

.001% I just don't see how this team does much of anything.

: 00:24:39

I mean, you're basically looking at a roster of role players and cast offs and guys that I just don't know what this roster is.

: 00:24:49

There's just nowhere.

: 00:24:50

I don't know how they score, I don't know how they defend.

: 00:24:53

This has got to be an under.

Mike: 00:24:56

Yeah, I'm going on actually, Mike, they're terrible.

Mike: 00:25:02

Move on.

Mike: 00:25:03

All right, look at that.

Mike: 00:25:03

I better a pair of pace now, so not great.

Mike: 00:25:07

All right, the next one, the Chicago Bulls, they're over under is 27 and a half now, correct me.

Mike: 00:25:16

Lonzo is going to come back this year.

Mike: 00:25:18

So supposedly right versus immediate at me.

: 00:25:22

No, at media day today, they said that he's been playing five on five.

: 00:25:27

They're not sure yet how the knee is going to react as he continues to ramp up towards what's going to be required of him in training camp and throughout the regular season.

: 00:25:38

But the plan is that he's going to be ready to play on opening day.

: 00:25:45

And if that's the case, if you put Lonzo and Josh giddy together, Lonzo actually, to be honest, is the best version of Lonzo, is actually a great fit next to giddy because Lonzo is a tremendous passer.

: 00:26:02

Like, he's a guy that anybody who plays basketball would want to play with Lonzo ball because he's a guy who's a really good passer and I mean really good.

: 00:26:14

And in that sense, a guy who gets rid of the ball, he's not a guy who has to have the ball in his hands all the time.

: 00:26:21

So he fits really well next to a guy like Getty who's going to have the ball, who's a good playmaker in his own right.

: 00:26:29

But when Giddy moves the ball to Lonzo, Lonzo is going to make the next pass, the right pass, get it to the next guy and keep the ball moving again.

: 00:26:36

If he can play to me, I think if that's your backcourt or if those are your two guys who are handling the ball, I think you got a pretty solid start.

: 00:26:44

Lonzo was a good defender when he was in New Orleans.

: 00:26:47

I don't know how much his ability to move has been compromised now by what's going on with his knee, but I like the giddy ball combination.

: 00:26:57

If they're both healthy, specifically Lonzo.

: 00:27:02

But then I look at the rest of the roster and, okay, Zach Levine, how healthy is he going to be?

: 00:27:07

Has Zach Levine ever contributed to a truly winning situation?

: 00:27:12

I'm not sure he has.

: 00:27:13

And then in the front court, like, I mean, you got vouch.

: 00:27:19

You got Patrick Williams.

: 00:27:22

Where does Kobe White fit into that backcourt?

: 00:27:25

I mean, clearly so well.

Mike: 00:27:26

He played well last year and he's.

: 00:27:28

Going to be on.

: 00:27:29

I mean, Kobe White's going to be on the floor.

: 00:27:30

I mean, I think if Lonzo is healthy, my guess is he comes off the bench.

: 00:27:35

Maybe he's the guy that handles the ball when Giddy's out and they play some minutes together.

: 00:27:41

I just, I don't like this team's frontcourt.

: 00:27:44

I think if you're relying on Vooch, who clearly he's been diminished, he used to be an above average offensive center.

: 00:27:53

Now, I would say that his ability to shoot the ball from the outside has tailed off since he's been in Chicago.

: 00:27:59

He's not nearly as effective as he's aged in the post.

: 00:28:03

And so I'm not sure what he's bringing you besides below average center play.

: 00:28:08

Patrick Williams.

: 00:28:09

Williams, they gave him that big extension this summer.

: 00:28:12

I think they signed him for, I want to say it was $90 million for four years, which seems like a ridiculous overpay for a guy who really has done nothing of any significance since he was drafted fourth overall in the draft.

: 00:28:27

And there just really isn't much else on this roster in terms of size that can be effective.

: 00:28:37

And I don't know.

: 00:28:39

I just, I don't see how.

: 00:28:42

I mean, unless you're talking about a career year from Gideon, he carries them.

: 00:28:47

I just don't know.

: 00:28:48

They have enough in the front court.

: 00:28:49

I'm going to go under on the Bulls.

Mike: 00:28:50

I'm going over Mike.

: 00:28:52

All right.

Mike: 00:28:54

I'm a believer in Lonzo ball in his twelve minutes a game or whatever.

: 00:28:57

He'S going to play.

: 00:28:58

You said 27 and a half, right?

Mike: 00:29:00

Yeah, yeah, 27.

Mike: 00:29:01

I won over.

: 00:29:03

All right.

: 00:29:03

I'm going to go under on that.

: 00:29:05

They're one injury away from complete irrelevance.

: 00:29:13

If either Kobe white or giddy go down with an injury, this team is just, they got, they have nothing.

: 00:29:20

They have nothing.

: 00:29:21

So I'm going under.

Mike: 00:29:22

Okay.

Mike: 00:29:23

All right, next up, Lonzo's brothers team, the Charlotte Hornets.

Mike: 00:29:31

Their over under is 29 and a half.

Mike: 00:29:34

Mike, um, I'm really struggling with Charlotte here.

Mike: 00:29:44

I, you would think at some point they have to be better, right?

Mike: 00:29:54

They've kind of been like the Orlando magic, you know, like four years ago when the Orlando match just continued to be bad and they kept having all these picks and Jonathan Isaac's knee exploded like 17 times and like, like, what.

Jason Sunkel: 00:30:07

Is, what is Charlotte, what are they doing?

Mike: 00:30:10

What's what, what's the goal here?

Mike: 00:30:12

And, you know, I think there were, there were glimpses last year, but then they never could keep sustained cause injuries.

Mike: 00:30:19

And they've got that guy on their team that's not really liked by some people and because of his.

: 00:30:29

How do.

Mike: 00:30:30

I put this gently, his treatment of women.

Mike: 00:30:37

So 29 and a half, it's a low number and I'm going to say it's under.

Mike: 00:30:50

I'm going to say under 29 and a half for Charlotte.

Mike: 00:30:52

Mike, I just, I just don't feel great about them in their season and, yeah, I just got to go under on them.

: 00:31:03

Okay.

: 00:31:03

So I think what you have to look at here is there's two things.

: 00:31:07

The two most important guys in the Hornets franchise right now are Brandon Miller and LaMello Ball.

: 00:31:14

And Lamello has had his share of injuries that have prevented him from being on the floor as much as you would like when he's been on the floor, there's been a lot of discussion over whether he's empty calories and can, what LaMelo does, can that translate to a winning team?

: 00:31:39

And is he a lot of empty calorie stats?

: 00:31:42

He has tremendous size.

: 00:31:44

He has a tremendous ability to pass at that size.

: 00:31:49

He's a really good shooter both off the catch and off the dribble.

: 00:31:53

There's a skill set here that very, very few players in the league have at his size.

: 00:32:00

And yet he doesn't play much defense.

: 00:32:04

He gambles.

: 00:32:06

He's not really somebody that you're going to look to on that end of the floor to be a defensive stalwart, let's say.

: 00:32:17

And then it's just the fact of, is he going to stay healthy and be on the court?

: 00:32:21

And then the second guy, obviously is Brandon Miller.

: 00:32:23

And Brandon Miller had an outstanding rookie year.

: 00:32:26

And I think this is the year that you and I talked about it a couple pods ago, where Charlotte is going to look to figure out what do we have in Lamello Ball and is he somebody that we're going to continue to build around or do we shift what we're doing more towards Brandon Miller?

: 00:32:45

And I guess what I would say is I'm a believer in Brandon Miller.

: 00:32:51

Lamelo I have questions about, but the talent isnt arguably there.

: 00:32:56

And so then you have to look at the rest of their roster and see kind of all right, what do they have?

: 00:33:00

So last year, Mark Williams, who they drafted two years ago and had a good rookie season out of Duke as a center, was out most of the year.

: 00:33:08

Hes back theoretically healthy.

: 00:33:11

So if he starts to continue on the development path that he showed in his rookie year, maybe he becomes a piece that can add to those two main guys.

: 00:33:23

And then from there, I mean, there's not a whole lot else on this roster to really love.

: 00:33:32

Obviously Bridges has talent, but, you know, we've talked about that.

: 00:33:35

Charlotte has obviously decided they're looking past his indiscretions off the field or off the court.

: 00:33:42

And when he's on the floor, he's been, he's been a productive guy for them.

: 00:33:47

They pick up Josh Green from Dallas, who maybe he gets some minutes.

: 00:33:52

They have Trey Mann on this roster.

: 00:33:57

I think it comes down to your betting on whether Lamar, whether LaMelo and Brandon Miller, where are they in their development?

: 00:34:05

And I kind of like Brandon Miller.

: 00:34:06

I'm going to go over on the hornets.

Mike: 00:34:09

Wow.

: 00:34:11

I'm going to go over.

Mike: 00:34:11

Wow.

Mike: 00:34:13

All right.

: 00:34:13

I think new own, new ownership.

: 00:34:16

I think that they've got, they got.

Mike: 00:34:18

Finally got the Jordan stink off of them.

: 00:34:20

They got the Jordan.

: 00:34:21

The Jordan ownership stink is awful.

: 00:34:23

So I think that, I think this franchise is headed in the right direction, ready to make some, some decent decisions.

Mike: 00:34:33

All right.

Mike: 00:34:33

All right.

Mike: 00:34:35

The Cavaliers.

Mike: 00:34:36

The Cleveland Cavaliers.

Mike: 00:34:39

They're over under us 48 and a half.

Mike: 00:34:42

I'm, I'm hitting the over on this one, baby.

Mike: 00:34:46

Give me the over.

: 00:34:47

All right.

Mike: 00:34:48

I mean, I don't know.

Mike: 00:34:52

I saw that video of Mobley shooting a bunch of threes and making them today.

Mike: 00:34:56

It made me excited.

: 00:35:00

Stack that up right next to the Ben Simmons collection of videos I like.

Mike: 00:35:05

But it wasn't, it wasn't in the corner, though, Mike.

Mike: 00:35:07

That's the impressive part because think of every single time Evan Mobley was shooting threes in games last year, where was he shooting them from?

Mike: 00:35:18

Corner.

Mike: 00:35:19

Right.

: 00:35:20

I mean, I feel like you've shot a fair share of them above the break, but.

: 00:35:23

Yeah, I get what you're saying.

: 00:35:24

Look, I mean, it's got to be.

Mike: 00:35:26

This is a hard over for me.

Mike: 00:35:27

I just feel like there's no, there's no the j.

Mike: 00:35:33

Listen, how many.

Mike: 00:35:34

Here's the question.

Mike: 00:35:37

How many wins would we have had last year?

Mike: 00:35:41

I'm not even counting the injuries.

Mike: 00:35:43

If JB wasn't our coach, there were like several games where things happened and we were like, these are idiotic decisions.

Mike: 00:35:53

Right.

Mike: 00:35:54

I mean, I just feel like Kenny Atkinson is a good coach.

Mike: 00:36:00

He's, he's gonna, he's gonna do a good job.

Mike: 00:36:06

The Cavs won 51 games last year with JB, Becker, Saf as their coach.

Mike: 00:36:10

The roster has not changed at all.

Mike: 00:36:13

Really, at all.

Mike: 00:36:14

They got a rookie.

Mike: 00:36:17

How could they not at least replicate that?

Mike: 00:36:19

And that, by the way, the 51 game winning 51 wins they had, when was when?

Mike: 00:36:25

Like, Mobley missed a month and a half, Garland missed a month and a half.

Mike: 00:36:32

Two months.

: 00:36:33

Jared is nowhere near, was nowhere near himself.

: 00:36:36

I mean, Garland was nowhere near himself.

Mike: 00:36:38

Well, he was fine until he got hurt, right?

: 00:36:40

So I'm saying.

: 00:36:41

Yep.

Mike: 00:36:42

So I'm just saying, if they, if they won 51 games last year and they, they stood fat, they bet on this team, how could.

Mike: 00:36:52

I don't understand how you could say under on 48 and a half.

Mike: 00:36:57

Because, yes, there are some other teams made moves, but, I mean, I just don't see it.

Mike: 00:37:06

They've got to be over.

: 00:37:09

Steams, healthy.

: 00:37:10

I don't see how they can go under that number.

: 00:37:15

They weren't healthy all of last year, as you said.

: 00:37:19

When you look at the roster, I mean, it's pretty much the identical roster to last year's team.

: 00:37:26

So, to your point about Jamie Bickerstaff, I do feel like it will be interesting to watch Kenny Atkinson coach this team versus Jamie Bickerstaff coaching this team.

: 00:37:39

I think you and I both believe that that's going to be pretty big upgrade.

: 00:37:44

Maybe we'll be proven wrong, but I think it's going to be a pretty big upgrade.

: 00:37:49

I think the season that Darius Garland had last year, with all the injuries, missing time and just never getting back, having his jaw wired shut and not being able to eat, I just think it was a terrible season for Darius.

: 00:38:02

By the end of the year, he looked lost.

: 00:38:04

He looked like the player that he was in his rookie season.

: 00:38:07

When we sat here and talked about how, man, is this guy ever going to make a floater?

: 00:38:11

He can't make anything.

: 00:38:12

He just looked completely lost.

: 00:38:15

And you think back to his all star season and how good he was in that year, and I got to believe that Kenny Atkinson and his coaching staff is going to figure out a way to help those two guys, Mitchell and Garland, maybe not to maximize one another, but to come closer to reaching the potential of that backcourt.

: 00:38:42

And I know there's challenges, and you and I have talked about it over and over again.

: 00:38:45

When you start talking about where they're going to finish and how they're going to play in the playoffs, two little guards, it's really tough.

: 00:38:53

But regular season wise, this team just has a ton of talent.

: 00:38:57

They have as stable of a roster situation as any team in the league.

: 00:39:01

There's been less turnover on this roster, at least in terms of the guys who are actually going to play, than probably any team in the league.

: 00:39:09

And when you talk about upgrading the coach, hopefully having a healthy season, all these guys are young.

: 00:39:17

I think certainly maybe Donovan Mitchell.

: 00:39:20

You say he's kind of reach the apex of who he is and what he's going to be, but I think Evan Mobley and Darris Garland, even Jared Allen to some degree, probably still have room to grow their games.

: 00:39:32

I just don't see how this team doesn't get better and win more than 48 and a half games unless there's serious injury.

: 00:39:42

I just don't see it.

: 00:39:43

So I'm going to take the over on the Cavs, too.

: 00:39:45

I think it's pretty if I was going to go for a lock at this point of what we've seen so far, to me, the Cavs at over 48 and a half's a lock.

: 00:39:58

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Mike: 00:40:46

Next up, the Detroit Pistons, coached by the guy we just besmirched, JB Bickerstaff y over under 25 and a half.

Mike: 00:40:57

Mike, I'll let you.

Mike: 00:41:00

I'll let you take this one first.

: 00:41:03

All right, so I think back last year, I think I was much higher on both Detroit and Orlando than the consensus.

: 00:41:15

And part of my reason for believing in Detroit was it felt like Cade Cunningham was ready to take a next step.

: 00:41:23

And obviously he's had injury concerns throughout his career.

: 00:41:30

Their young guys didn't really grow and get better, and so the team just kind of became a mess of pieces that didn't really fit together.

: 00:41:43

They just didn't have enough shooting around.

: 00:41:45

Cade Cunningham killed their spacing, and if you remember, we had coach Monty not playing Jaden Ivey and it just didnt make any sense what they were doing.

: 00:42:01

I mean, Monty Williams is now on a beach somewhere collecting his money for coaching the Detroit Pistons for the next four years.

: 00:42:11

And I just didnt like the direction that that team went last year.

: 00:42:14

I still felt like they had talent, which is why I thought they would exceed their win total last year.

: 00:42:19

I look at it now and you say, okay, what are you going to do with this team?

: 00:42:27

How is JB Bickerstaff going to put this roster together and put lineups onto the floor?

: 00:42:33

That makes sense.

: 00:42:36

And look, there's pieces here as young players that I think are interesting, that can develop into something.

: 00:42:47

But, man, I just don't know if all the pieces fit together.

: 00:42:51

Cause if you're gonna start Cade Cunningham, Ivy two guys that can shoot but aren't really shooters, a sort Thompson's gotta start.

: 00:43:05

He's not a shooter at center.

: 00:43:09

Do you go with beef stew or do you go with Jalen Duran?

: 00:43:15

I mean, Duran's probably the guy that you'd want to have filled that spot.

: 00:43:18

He's a non shooter.

: 00:43:19

He's a rolling big.

: 00:43:20

And then does Tobias Harris fill that last spot?

: 00:43:25

They drafted Ron Holland, number five, who seems like he fits this profile of young guys who I'm not sure what the skill is that they have that translates automatically to the NBA game.

: 00:43:42

This team just seems like kind of similar to the Hawks and that they have some pieces that are interesting, but I don't know that those pieces fit together.

: 00:43:51

I think for the Pistons, it comes down to, does Kate Cunningham develop into a guy who is maybe not an all NBA level player, but Kate Cunningham has to develop into at least an all star for the Detroit Pistons.

: 00:44:09

And I'm not sure that, a, he's going to, and b, even if he has that potential, that this roster allows them to maximize what Cade Cunningham can be and can do.

: 00:44:24

And so I'm going to go under on the Detroit Pistons.

: 00:44:28

I like some of their pieces, but I don't like the way those pieces fit together on this roster with this coach.

Mike: 00:44:39

Under Jamie Baker staff.

Mike: 00:44:43

That's all I need to say.

: 00:44:45

Okay.

: 00:44:46

All right.

: 00:44:46

Let's leave it there.

Mike: 00:44:48

The next team, the Indiana Pacers over under is 47 and a half.

Mike: 00:45:00

I think what happened to playoffs with the Indiana Pacer?

Mike: 00:45:05

Tyrese Hallburn never was the same after what?

Mike: 00:45:08

January, right.

Mike: 00:45:09

Was January when he got hurt?

Mike: 00:45:11

Hamstring.

Mike: 00:45:11

December, January.

: 00:45:13

Yup.

Mike: 00:45:14

He was never the same.

Mike: 00:45:15

He didn't.

Mike: 00:45:16

I mean he hardly played in the play in the Olympics, right.

Mike: 00:45:18

He played merely meaningless minutes in the Olympics.

Mike: 00:45:21

When it comes down to it, he didn't like.

: 00:45:26

Tatum or the guys that played the least.

Mike: 00:45:31

I think they overachieved last year, Mike.

Mike: 00:45:33

At the beginning they off to such a hot start.

Mike: 00:45:38

They got to the tournament.

Mike: 00:45:40

The TB.

Mike: 00:45:41

The t.

Mike: 00:45:41

Oh, not the TBT.

: 00:45:42

The championship tournament.

: 00:45:46

Tournament.

Mike: 00:45:46

It's NBA cup.

: 00:45:47

The NBA cup.

: 00:45:48

The NBA cup.

Mike: 00:45:49

The NBA cup.

Mike: 00:45:50

Thank you.

Mike: 00:45:51

Now presented on Amazon or something ridiculous we'll be presenting on Amazon next year.

Jason Sunkel: 00:45:56

I listen, I.

Mike: 00:45:59

47 and a half is.

Mike: 00:46:00

I mean, I think it's.

Mike: 00:46:02

I think this is gonna.

Mike: 00:46:03

I think this is blasphemy that the Cavs over under 48 and a half and Indiana Pacers over under 47 and a half because I think the Cavs are far superior to the Indiana Pacers in the central division.

Mike: 00:46:22

I guess I should.

Mike: 00:46:23

Far superior might be a stretch, but I think they're better than a game difference.

Mike: 00:46:30

And maybe, you know, this is Vegas setting lines.

Mike: 00:46:32

And as my dad says, when Vegas sets lines, they're really setting these lines so that people will bet on them.

Mike: 00:46:38

Okay, I have to go under on this, Mike.

Mike: 00:46:43

I think this team close to 500.

Mike: 00:46:47

I don't think this team is going to be much more than maybe a game or two over 500.

Mike: 00:46:51

I'm going, I'm going under.

Mike: 00:46:53

I'm not a believer in the Indiana Pacers.

: 00:46:58

So they started out the season, right with the best offense in the league, but also the best offense in NBA history for the first, I don't know, three months of the season and their defense was probably equally as bad.

: 00:47:14

And then as the season turned, those two numbers started to creep more towards the middle.

: 00:47:21

Their offense got worse, their defense got a little bit better, and by the time they get to the playoffs, they end up getting this depleted New York Knicks in the second round where all their guys get hurt.

: 00:47:33

They advance to the Eastern Conference finals.

: 00:47:35

They're pretty much, well, I mean, you can look at those games that they had against Boston and certainly there were some of those games that they were right there and they were probably more competitive with Boston than maybe the final game result would make you think.

: 00:47:55

But when I look at this team, I think it still comes down to your best player, Tyrese Halliburton.

: 00:48:04

And which version of Halliburton is the real guy?

: 00:48:09

Right?

: 00:48:09

Is he closer to that guy from the first three months of the season?

: 00:48:12

Is he closer to that guy from the last three months of the season and the playoffs?

: 00:48:18

Obviously, nobody knows the answer.

: 00:48:20

Clearly.

: 00:48:21

It would seem that if he recovers fully from his injury, you would expect him to get back to that form that had a lot of people talking about him as a first team All NBA player.

: 00:48:33

If that's the case, then I think you can make an argument that this number is fair.

: 00:48:41

I don't know if Halliburton is that good.

: 00:48:45

And I look at the rest of their roster and obviously they traded midseason last year for Siockham, who played very well with them.

: 00:48:54

He is what he is, not a superstar, but certainly a guy who can be the second or third best player on a really, really good team, which he was in Toronto and which he is here in Indiana.

: 00:49:07

I think the big question mark with this team is can they defend well enough over the course of a regular season to reach this win total?

: 00:49:17

I'm not sure they can.

: 00:49:19

I'm a little bit more bullish on them than you are.

: 00:49:21

I don't think they're going to be around 500, but I think for them to get to 47 and a half, I could see them winning 45, 46, 47 games.

: 00:49:31

I think that if Halliburton is the guy that everybody thinks he can be when he's healthy, then I think that's a realistic number.

: 00:49:41

So even though I'm a little higher on them than you are, I'm going to also go under.

: 00:49:46

But I think they're going to be.

: 00:49:47

I think that's going to be very close.

Mike: 00:49:50

Okay, well, next pick.

Mike: 00:49:54

Our next one is the Miami Heat.

Mike: 00:49:57

The over under is 44 and a half.

Mike: 00:50:03

Biggest question with the Miami Heat for me, Mike, is will Jimmy Butler be able to stay healthy?

Mike: 00:50:09

That's really what it comes down to.

Mike: 00:50:14

I mean, in hero, obviously, is this roster, as it's currently constructed, going to be roster at the end of the season?

Mike: 00:50:21

I mean, you've got Butler, you've got bam, you've got hero, you've got Kevin love in the 17th season.

: 00:50:30

Scary Terry.

: 00:50:31

Scary Terry Hawkes.

Jason Sunkel: 00:50:35

Yeah.

Mike: 00:50:36

I just feel like there's a move to be made for this team.

Mike: 00:50:39

If they want to make it.

Mike: 00:50:40

And if there's a team that's a.

Mike: 00:50:41

And I don't know what that move is, Mike, and I'm not going to even try to prognosticate what that move is because who knows who's going to be available come early February, late January, early February.

Mike: 00:50:56

With all that being said, I feel like I have to go on the over on this one.

Mike: 00:51:03

I feel better about Miami, even as its roster is currently constructed, than Indiana.

Mike: 00:51:10

I think, you know, I just, it's something about the key culture.

Mike: 00:51:15

I just feel like it has to be an over.

: 00:51:19

You said the number was 44 and a half, right?

Mike: 00:51:21

Yeah.

: 00:51:23

Okay.

: 00:51:23

So for me, this number all comes down to how many regular season games is Jimmy Butler going to play?

: 00:51:31

And he hasn't played a ton of regular season games over the past few seasons, and that has limited Miami's ability to win regular season games.

: 00:51:45

So obviously the year they get to the NBA Finals against the Nuggets two years ago, they come out of the play in and I mean, it just, I don't know.

: 00:52:02

To think that Jimmy Butler is going to play is going to suit up for 75 games in the regular season seems very, very, very unlikely.

: 00:52:13

And yet, if he doesn't, I just.

Mike: 00:52:17

Don'T see the last three seasons, Mike.

: 00:52:20

All right, but 60, that still means he's missing 20 games.

Mike: 00:52:24

Well, he's gone 60, 64, 60.

: 00:52:27

Okay?

: 00:52:30

I'd like my best player to play more games than that.

: 00:52:35

I mean, I know in today's NBA, maybe that's completely unrealistic of me, but I don't know.

: 00:52:42

I just look at the rest of this roster and look, bam.

: 00:52:46

Adebayo warrior.

: 00:52:48

You know what you're going to get out of him every night?

: 00:52:51

The All NBA, all NBA level defense.

: 00:52:54

He's going to do what he does offensively.

: 00:52:57

Pencil and bam.

: 00:52:58

For whatever, 20 and twelve every night.

: 00:53:02

He's going to do everybody else.

: 00:53:04

Tyler hero.

: 00:53:05

What are you getting from Tyler hero from night to night?

: 00:53:07

First of all, he's been hurt and really ineffective as a defensive player, has been big swings high and low on the offensive end of the floor and just, again, can't get on the floor.

: 00:53:19

So I don't know what I'm getting from him.

: 00:53:21

Scary Terry's been hurt off and on for the last couple seasons.

: 00:53:26

Don't know what I'm getting from him.

: 00:53:29

I mean, I guess you can make the argument that Hawkes is going to be better.

: 00:53:36

Jovic, who started a lot of the year last year, is going to continue to get better as a 21 year old guy.

: 00:53:43

But I don't know if you take Jimmy Butler's effectiveness out and then you look at the rest of the roster, I just don't see it.

: 00:53:52

I'm going under on Miami.

Mike: 00:53:54

Okay.

Mike: 00:53:57

The Bucks.

Mike: 00:53:58

Milwaukee Bucks.

Mike: 00:53:59

Doc Rivers led Bucks 50 and a half is the over under.

Mike: 00:54:10

Okay.

Mike: 00:54:11

So when I think about this, I think about how many games is, this goes almost the same exact thing what you just said about Jimmy Barlow.

Mike: 00:54:18

How many games is Giannis going to play?

Mike: 00:54:20

How many games are dame lawyer going to play?

Mike: 00:54:24

What's it going to look like?

Mike: 00:54:27

But then I just think about it and I'm like, Giannis has been pretty healthy.

Mike: 00:54:33

He's played a lot of, and he plays a lot.

Jason Sunkel: 00:54:39

Another year under Docker Ruth's.

Mike: 00:54:42

I don't know if that's a good.

Jason Sunkel: 00:54:43

Thing or a bad thing.

Mike: 00:54:45

50 and a half is, you know, I think the cows and the Bucks are pretty comparable, in my opinion.

Mike: 00:54:53

I think obviously, I think the Bucks have the better player in Giannis, but I also don't think they have.

Mike: 00:55:03

I think they're, I don't think they're.

Jason Sunkel: 00:55:04

As theoretically deep as the Cavs, but.

Mike: 00:55:07

I just, I can't go, I cannot in good conscious take the under with the bill Bucks because they just have a proven track record.

Mike: 00:55:16

They're going to win games in the regular season and then they're going to lose in the first round because Giannis.

Jason Sunkel: 00:55:20

Is going to get hurt.

Mike: 00:55:21

I mean, that, that's what it's going to come down to, Mike.

Mike: 00:55:24

And, and you're roping.

: 00:55:26

You're roping Giannis into the Joel Embiid corollary.

Mike: 00:55:30

I mean, I mean, has it happened the last two years, Mike?

: 00:55:34

Two seasons in a row, plus even the championship season.

: 00:55:38

Remember, he got hurt in that Eastern Conference final series against the Hawks and came back against the Suns, but did get hurt during that playoff run.

Mike: 00:55:46

So that's what I'm just saying.

Mike: 00:55:47

I'm just saying, like, I'm going to rope him into that.

Mike: 00:55:51

He is hurt in the playoffs the last two years.

Mike: 00:55:53

He's been out in the first, out of the first round and they've lost, right?

Mike: 00:55:57

Correct.

: 00:55:58

Correct.

Mike: 00:56:00

So I'm going to say they're going to go over and then he's going to get hurt and they're going to lose in the first round again to the end.

: 00:56:06

Okay.

: 00:56:07

So I think with Milwaukee, I mean, if Giannis is healthy, that's pretty much a guaranteed you're going to win 50 games.

: 00:56:16

If he plays 70 to 75 games, certainly that's the case with most superstar players.

: 00:56:23

But I think this Bucks team, one very old two last year with all the coaching situation with Dame being far below what he had been in previous seasons, with Middleton being out for large portions of the year, not that he's not going to be out for large portions of this season, but they really had a very, very, very difficult year and they still won 49 games and their depth last year was not good.

: 00:56:55

Connaughton had an off year.

: 00:56:56

Maybe he just is on the downside of his career at age 31, but I do like what the Bucks did around the periphery of their team.

: 00:57:07

So they signed three guys who I think are probably going to play for them at various times, Gary Trent junior, Delan Wright and Torian Princess.

: 00:57:17

None of whom are great players in terms of they're not guys who are going to be carrying your team to post season victories, but they are guys who, if you throw them in there in high leverage situations as your fifth player, I think they all have roles and places where they can be effective.

: 00:57:39

So I like what the Bucs did around the periphery.

: 00:57:42

And look, the Bucks success in the playoffs is going to depend first and foremost on Lianis health.

: 00:57:51

Secondly, if the Bucks want to get where the Bucks would like to get, which is to win another NBA title, the only way that happens is if Chris Middleton is completely healthy and playing at a level that approaches a what he did when they won a championship, which may be a little bit too much to ask, but he was also very good last year in the first round against the Pacers.

: 00:58:12

He played very, very well.

: 00:58:14

And so if you can get some version of that Middleton come playoff time, the Bucks will be, I think, in good, in good, in good position.

: 00:58:24

So because they won 49 games in a season where just about everything that could go wrong did, it feels like even if they have a normal season in terms of what Dame and Giannis can produce and what you would expect from injury from a team of this age, I still think regular season, that the Bucs go over this number and then any success they're going to have in the postseason completely hinges upon the health of all their old, old guys.

: 00:58:55

And obviously the health of Giannis is first and foremost when it comes to that.

: 00:58:59

But I'm going to take the over on the buck.

Mike: 00:59:00

Okay.

Mike: 00:59:02

All right.

Mike: 00:59:03

The New York Knicks.

Mike: 00:59:03

Mike, we've finally gotten there.

Mike: 00:59:05

The New York Knicks.

Mike: 00:59:08

So the trade hasn't happened yet officially.

Mike: 00:59:12

Correct?

Mike: 00:59:12

Correct.

Mike: 00:59:13

Has not.

: 00:59:13

Officially, I have not seen, I've not seen anything that says that it's been, but it seems like with approval.

Mike: 00:59:20

It seems like Carl Anthony Towns is going to be going to the Knicks for Julius Randall and Dante Vicenza, which at Knicks media day neither Julius Randall nor Dante Devicenzo were there.

Mike: 00:59:32

I did not see whether at Minnesota's media day cat was there, but I'm going to go ahead and assume that he was not because it's pretty much seemingly a done done deal.

Mike: 00:59:45

I think this is an interesting situation, Mike, because I think offensively this team is probably better, right?

Mike: 00:59:54

They're better because Carl Anthony Towns won't spread the floor a little bit.

Mike: 01:00:02

I think someone, Simmons made a good point on his podcast saying whenever Julius Renault got the ball, it was like kind of a what is he going to do with the ball?

Mike: 01:00:11

They kind of stuck in mud a little bit.

Mike: 01:00:14

They didn't like situation whereas Carl Natal.

Jason Sunkel: 01:00:19

Is a little more not.

Mike: 01:00:21

He doesn't dribble the ball and is slow moving to attack the basket.

Mike: 01:00:24

He makes a pretty good quick decision.

Mike: 01:00:27

But I think defensively in the toughness thing, they're taking a hit on this.

Mike: 01:00:37

I think they're taking a little hit on this because Carl, Danny Towns is not.

Mike: 01:00:42

I also feel like Julius Randall was a, is a, is an emotional leader for the New York Knicks.

Mike: 01:00:50

Take all his downsides away.

Mike: 01:00:53

I think he's an emotional leader for the Knicks.

Mike: 01:00:57

I don't see O'Connor Anthony Towns as a very emotional cat, pun intended there.

Mike: 01:01:03

I just don't see it.

Mike: 01:01:06

You know, I kind of get the Carlton Towns is a nice dude kind of vibe from him when I watch him play basketball.

Mike: 01:01:14

I think he's had his fair share of spats and he got involved when Rudy Gobert was getting choked last year.

Mike: 01:01:21

But I just feel like.

: 01:01:25

I don't know, I just feel like.

Mike: 01:01:26

The Knicks, they're going to not have the edge and I mean, and how many minutes is Tibbs going to play?

Mike: 01:01:33

Carl Towns get to play 46 minutes?

Mike: 01:01:37

I mean, and get them hurt.

: 01:01:39

I mean, might have to.

: 01:01:40

Baby, when you look at this roster, I mean, I didn't tell you what.

Mike: 01:01:45

The over under was.

Mike: 01:01:46

Mike, your head's going to explode.

Mike: 01:01:49

What do you think their overarching is?

Mike: 01:01:51

I'm going to let you play guess the lines with cousin Jason.

: 01:01:55

I'm going to say based on what I see, I'm going to go 53 and a half.

Mike: 01:02:00

54 and a half, Mike, I'm going under on this.

Mike: 01:02:05

I just don't.

Mike: 01:02:07

They're going to have to figure it out.

Mike: 01:02:09

I mean, they don't even have the trade like done yet, so they're missing like training camp started and they don't have all their guys.

Mike: 01:02:16

Who knows when the trade is going to go through.

Mike: 01:02:21

I just, I'm going under.

Mike: 01:02:24

Do I think the Knicks are going to be a good team?

Mike: 01:02:26

I do.

Mike: 01:02:26

I want to be clear, and I'm not saying they're going to be bad, but I just think it's going to be hard for them to get to that, to win total.

Mike: 01:02:32

I mean, they have the second highest win total in the Eastern Conference over under.

Mike: 01:02:41

I just can't.

Mike: 01:02:42

I kiss, can't get, I can't get behind it.

Mike: 01:02:45

You know, it's, it's, it's going to be, there's going to be a, there's going to be a learning curve here at some point.

Mike: 01:02:51

Whenever that happens, whenever that straight happens.

Mike: 01:02:54

But.

Mike: 01:02:54

So I'm going under 54 and a half is too high for me.

: 01:02:59

Right.

: 01:03:00

So when this trade came down, my immediate reaction, which I believe I texted to you, was, I mean, this is a terrible trade for the Knicks.

: 01:03:12

And when I look at a, what they gave up and look, I think that the Knicks, with the success that they had towards the end of last season before everybody else got hurt, but when Randall was out and an, and Obi was healthy and they had, they were what, 23 and two or something ridiculous when Randall was not in the lineup, but Ananobi was, I think got them thinking that, hey, we can win and have a team without Julius Randall.

: 01:03:46

So from the nick standpoint, when you ship out Randall and bring in towns, you're essentially replacing a guy who was not a part of your best stretches of the season last year, and you're bringing in a guy who obviously towns, his offensive talent, I don't think is in question in terms of his ability to shoot the ball at his size and all of that.

: 01:04:10

There's no question that Towns has ability.

: 01:04:14

But when you ship out RANDALL and you ship out Devon Schenzo, who was a huge part of what the Knicks do.

: 01:04:23

Now, you could argue if you're a Knicks fan or you're the Knicks front office, right, that towns, essentially his three point shooting, essentially replaces Devincenzos.

: 01:04:32

But it's at a more premium position.

: 01:04:34

And I think, if I'm not mistaken, Devon Chenzo averaged like ten threes a game, not making, but he shot like ten threes a game for them last year.

: 01:04:43

And that's a pretty high volume.

: 01:04:46

And Carl Towns has always been a high volume three point shooter.

: 01:04:51

He played for Tibbs in Minnesota.

: 01:04:53

That didn't go particularly well.

: 01:04:56

Carl Anthony Towns does not seem like a Tibbs sort of player.

: 01:05:02

Whereas when you look at the rest of this roster and how the Knicks have been building prior to this move, it felt like they had a bunch of guys who were kind of bought into the defense.

: 01:05:12

First, high iq, tough, all characteristics that I don't think Carl Anthony Towns has necessarily been described as over the course of his career.

: 01:05:25

And to me from a personality standpoint, kat on this team just doesn't make any sense.

: 01:05:33

Now, maybe the thought process is you bring him into this particular group, that's one.

: 01:05:41

You bring him into this particular group, he's got experience with Tibbs.

: 01:05:44

So even though maybe it didn't go perfectly, he knows what he's getting himself himself into.

: 01:05:49

And maybe it goes differently this time, maybe cats at a different point in his career where he's more receptive to playing a different way and fitting in with this particular roster.

: 01:06:04

But I've watched enough Carl Anthony Towns to see him do so many dumb, stupid things on a basketball court in terms of the unnecessary fouls and hacking guys in situations that he has no business picking up his third foul or his fourth foul, just plays that are low iq offensively.

: 01:06:28

I've seen him take bad shots, make decisions where he should shoot and he drives or he runs a guy over or he just, and then he just has a goofy, goofy personality that when you watch him, you're just like, I don't get this guy.

: 01:06:42

Like, I don't get what he's doing.

: 01:06:44

I don't get his demeanor.

: 01:06:46

And to me that doesn't jibe with what this Knicks team has been building.

: 01:06:52

And then I look at it and I say, all right, so this roster, what they have, their starting lineup is going to be formidable.

: 01:07:00

And I think you're right.

: 01:07:01

They're probably going to be able to score.

: 01:07:04

When you talk about Brunson, Kat Annan, Obi Bridges and Josh Hart are probably going to be your starters.

: 01:07:15

It's pretty good starting five.

: 01:07:18

I still don't like cat just as a player.

: 01:07:21

I mean, I think he fits with that group, but I just don't love his personality right now.

: 01:07:26

Mitchell Robinson's out, they're, they're bench like.

: 01:07:30

I mean, you're talking about Cameron Payne is going to be playing minutes for this team.

: 01:07:39

Machua is going to be playing minutes.

: 01:07:41

Kate Abates dia they just don't have, there's Miles McBride.

: 01:07:47

They just don't have much depth.

: 01:07:48

There's not much coming off their bench that I would trust to play in big moments.

: 01:07:54

I think the trade to me was a downgrade for the Knicks because I just don't believe in Carl Anthony Towns as a guy who's going to win big.

: 01:08:05

And I don't believe him on this roster with this team.

: 01:08:08

I think Minnesota won the trade.

: 01:08:10

I'm not sure Randall, we'll talk about it with the Western Conference over unders later.

: 01:08:13

I'm not sure Randall fits tremendously well with the Timberwolves.

: 01:08:17

I do like Devoncenzo on the wolves, but the big thing for Minnesota was getting out from under.

: 01:08:22

Towns has four more years on his contract.

: 01:08:25

I believe he makes 60 some million in the last year of that deal.

: 01:08:29

And I will be stunned beyond belief if four years from now we're saying, man, what a great signing or what a great trade that was for the New York Knicks.

: 01:08:40

I just don't think that happens.

: 01:08:42

And basically now with where the Knicks are in terms of their salary, they've kind of painted themselves into a corner where what they have is what they have.

: 01:08:53

And that's with Brunson taking the $100 million less than what he could have on his contract.

: 01:09:00

So I don't love this trade for the Knicks.

: 01:09:03

That number of 54 and a half seems really, really high.

: 01:09:07

Cause if any one of their top six guys goes down with an injury, they are very quickly looking at guys who probably shouldn't be in an NBA rotation.

: 01:09:19

And so I'm going to go under on the New York Knicks, and I'm going on record that this trade is going to be.

: 01:09:27

I think the Knicks are going to regret trading for Carl Anthony.

Mike: 01:09:31

Towns like the Browns regret trading for Deshaun Watson.

Mike: 01:09:35

All right, Orlando Magic, 47 and a half.

Mike: 01:09:46

So this one's tough for me, Mike, because I think they're.

Mike: 01:09:54

I think this is pretty close to the number for Orlando.

Mike: 01:09:58

I think that this is pretty, pretty, pretty close.

Mike: 01:10:02

Now, last year they didn't.

Mike: 01:10:04

Last year.

Mike: 01:10:06

Let's see, where'd they get?

Mike: 01:10:07

Where'd they get last year?

Mike: 01:10:14

47.

Mike: 01:10:15

I mean, man.

Mike: 01:10:23

Right.

Mike: 01:10:25

I.

Mike: 01:10:25

I'm going to go over, Mike, just because I think they're going to continue to grow.

Mike: 01:10:31

Um, but I think that's close to the number.

Mike: 01:10:36

I think.

Mike: 01:10:36

I think 47, 48, 49.

Mike: 01:10:41

I think fifties probably their ceiling, but I think they're somewhere in that 47 to 49 range.

Mike: 01:10:50

Paulo is going to be, you know, he's a stud, man.

Mike: 01:10:55

He's a stud.

Mike: 01:10:56

The guys around him have another year, maybe Jonathan Isaac going to play this year?

: 01:11:02

I don't know, you know, made it through last season.

: 01:11:07

Yeah.

Mike: 01:11:08

Hey, you know your boys free agents, though.

: 01:11:11

I know Markel faults.

Mike: 01:11:13

No one.

Mike: 01:11:14

No one signing him.

Mike: 01:11:15

Is he wanting too much money?

: 01:11:16

Like, seems crazy that he's still on the market.

: 01:11:19

I don't know, man.

: 01:11:20

Again, obviously wasn't a terrible.

Mike: 01:11:23

He wasn't terrible.

Mike: 01:11:24

I mean, I can't.

: 01:11:27

I just can't believe I got.

: 01:11:28

I got.

: 01:11:29

I got to believe he's going to get picked up at some point.

Mike: 01:11:32

Yeah.

: 01:11:34

So which way you going?

: 01:11:35

You're going over?

Mike: 01:11:36

I'm going.

Mike: 01:11:37

I'm going over.

Mike: 01:11:38

I'm going to go over.

: 01:11:38

Okay.

: 01:11:40

All right.

: 01:11:40

So far as Orlando goes, I mean, I look at them and they're honestly probably in a very similar position to the Cavs minus Donovan Mitchell.

: 01:11:52

Right.

: 01:11:52

They don't have anybody who's more of a veteran that's at that stage of their career that's at the level that Donovan Mitchell is.

: 01:11:59

But you're looking at the Cavs and you're saying, I think they're going to improve and get better because those young guys are going to continue to improve.

: 01:12:06

And this team also has the same sort of roster stability that the Cavaliers have, is that you look at the guys who are going to play for this team, and it's pretty much all the guys that played last year, and you had Paulo, who's 22 years old, you have Franz, who's 22 years old, and clearly, you would expect at that age that those two guys are going to continue to get better.

: 01:12:32

And they're both also very, very good at this point right now.

: 01:12:36

You talk about the development of Jalen Suggs last year and his improved shooting.

: 01:12:43

Does that shooting continue to improve?

: 01:12:45

Does it stabilize where it's at?

: 01:12:47

Does he regress back to where he was a rookie?

: 01:12:49

I would expect, based on everything that I've read, seen, heard about Jalen Suggs and his work ethic, I'm guessing that he was in the gym continuing to improve and get better.

: 01:13:00

So I would expect that continued development from him.

: 01:13:03

And if for no other reason than those three guys alone being better, I just don't see how this team goes backwards from the number that they achieved in sort of their first year of ascension.

: 01:13:18

I don't expect Paulo and Franz to take a step backwards.

: 01:13:21

I expect them only to continue to keep advancing.

: 01:13:24

As you said, paulo is a guy who, I don't know where his ceiling is.

: 01:13:30

I don't know that he can be a top five player in the NBA, but with his body and the varied skills that he has, I don't know that that's completely out of the question.

: 01:13:43

If he continues to work and develop.

: 01:13:45

And obviously, I think the thing that he's going to need is to be able to shoot the ball just a little bit better than what he can now.

: 01:13:52

But I expect this team to continue to progress.

: 01:13:54

I think they're going to go over that.

: 01:13:57

47 and a half.

Mike: 01:14:00

All right, Philadelphia 76 ers.

Mike: 01:14:06

The over under is 52 and a half.

Mike: 01:14:08

Mike, I'm, I'm hitting the under, baby.

Mike: 01:14:11

Give me.

Mike: 01:14:12

Give me the under.

Mike: 01:14:13

Joel Embiid, Paul George, not reliable.

Mike: 01:14:21

I just can't wrap my head around this team got 47 wins last year.

Mike: 01:14:30

I don't think they're a five and a half point team.

Mike: 01:14:33

Better.

Mike: 01:14:34

I mean, here's the question you have to ask yourself.

Mike: 01:14:37

Like, I know Tobias Harris was not the man, but the man that they needed into the third spot, but he was there and he played.

Mike: 01:14:50

Can we really rely on Paul George to play a full season?

Mike: 01:14:55

I mean, can we really rely on Joel Embiid to attempts to play a full season?

Mike: 01:15:04

If they, if the Sixers want to, want to prepare for the playoffs, he can't.

Mike: 01:15:08

They need to rest him.

Mike: 01:15:11

They can't play him as much.

Mike: 01:15:14

So I'm going, I'm hitting the under on this and I'm almost willing to say that's a lock for me.

Mike: 01:15:20

Mike, I feel very good about the under in the Philadelphia 76 ersitive.

: 01:15:27

So I don't think you can make a counterargument to what you just said about Embiid.

: 01:15:33

I certainly will not try to.

: 01:15:34

It's a train that I've been riding for a long time.

: 01:15:39

Embiid's toughness, his conditioning, all those things to me are question marks.

: 01:15:46

Paul George, obviously a guy who has a checkered injury passed is not likely to approach anywhere near 70 games for this team.

: 01:15:57

So of their big three, Max is young.

: 01:16:01

He's going to be on the floor.

: 01:16:02

He's probably going to play 70, 75 games, I would guess.

: 01:16:05

We talked about it last weekend.

: 01:16:06

Bead 50 games.

: 01:16:10

If they're smart, they obviously haven't been very good without him.

: 01:16:17

So if you're going to play 30, 35 games without Joel Embiid, seems like that's going to have a negative effect on your regular season record.

: 01:16:27

Who knows what Paul George's health is like.

: 01:16:30

I think the one thing I will say for the sixers is that when you look at sort of the guys that they brought in as a supporting cast, keeping in mind that these are going to be guys that are not key components, but guys that they can play off the bench, Andre Drummond is certainly a serviceable backup center, probably better than most of the guys that Philly has trotted out during MB's career.

: 01:17:02

Eric Gordon, proven veteran guy.

: 01:17:04

Reggie Jackson?

: 01:17:05

Same thing.

: 01:17:06

Kyle Lowry.

: 01:17:07

So that's three old guys in the backcourt, but you probably only need one of those three, maybe two out of those three to give you something.

: 01:17:15

I think the Caleb Martin signing.

: 01:17:17

Look, Caleb Martin is not the Caleb Martin that he was when he played for the Heat and was destroying the Boston Celtics with his shooting.

: 01:17:24

But he's a good player who I think is going to help the Sixers.

: 01:17:31

They brought Kelly back.

: 01:17:33

I think they have some pieces off their bench, which maybe you could argue if the main guys get hurt, that those guys can prop you up for small periods of time.

: 01:17:45

I would probably argue against that, but you could make that case.

: 01:17:50

I think those guys are all good role players when the big three are healthy.

: 01:17:55

I'm with you.

: 01:17:56

I don't.

: 01:17:57

I'm not a believer in Philadelphia in the regular season for the reasons that we just talked about that.

: 01:18:01

I don't think I.

: 01:18:02

Two out of their three main guys are going to play a ton of games, and as always, and we can talk about it when we get into the previews, but I'm never a believer in Philadelphia's postseason chances when your best player is Joel Embiid.

: 01:18:19

I just don't think that he has what is necessary to carry a team for two months and four rounds of NBA playoff basketball.

: 01:18:28

So I'm going to go under because Philly's going to do everything that they can to prepare him to try to do that.

: 01:18:35

I don't think that's going to bode well for the regular season record, and I don't think it's going to work for the postseason.

: 01:18:39

So give me under on the Phillies 76 ers.

Mike: 01:18:43

All right, we got two left, Mike.

Mike: 01:18:45

I think these are going to be quick ones.

Mike: 01:18:47

I think these are going to be quick ones.

Mike: 01:18:48

Toronto Raptors, 29 and a half.

Mike: 01:18:52

What if I told you that the only guy I can name on the Toronto Raptors is Scotty Barnese?

: 01:18:59

Well, you probably could name somebody else.

Mike: 01:19:02

Let me think.

: 01:19:03

If you think about that, if you think about the Knicks trade that they made, you could probably name some other guys.

Mike: 01:19:08

They've RJ Barrett.

Mike: 01:19:09

Right?

Mike: 01:19:09

And they're RJ Barrett now.

: 01:19:11

They have RJ Barrett.

: 01:19:13

They also have Emmanuel.

: 01:19:14

Quickly from that.

Mike: 01:19:15

Okay, I.

Mike: 01:19:16

Listen, I'm not a believer in any of those guys.

Mike: 01:19:18

Who's gonna say that right now?

Mike: 01:19:20

I'm not a believer in any of those guys.

Mike: 01:19:23

Um, 29 and a half low and seeing that I'm going to go with the under on the next team.

Mike: 01:19:35

I'm just going to preview that right now.

Mike: 01:19:37

The Washington Wizards are.

Mike: 01:19:38

They're getting the under for me, Mike.

: 01:19:40

Okay.

Mike: 01:19:41

Oh, I'm going to go over for Toronto.

: 01:19:43

I think it's.

Mike: 01:19:44

I think they get 30 wins.

Mike: 01:19:45

That's where they're going to go half a game over.

Mike: 01:19:47

They're going to.

Mike: 01:19:48

They're going to squeak it out.

: 01:19:53

So your guy, RJ Barrett, had a really good Olympic season and played very well for the canadian national team.

: 01:20:03

Despite their team downfalls in the Olympics and coming up short of expectations, I think Barrett on this team makes sense.

: 01:20:15

I think he probably is a victim of being the number two pick in a draft or, sorry, being the number three pick in a draft that produced Zion and Ja and he was the number one high school player in that class and came out of Duke, pick third.

: 01:20:32

And I think he's sort of a victim of expectations.

: 01:20:35

I think RJ Barrett is probably a better player than most of us have given him credit for.

: 01:20:40

So I actually like him on this team.

: 01:20:43

Scottie Barnes, I'm not convinced that he's going to ever be the best player on a really, really good team, but that doesn't mean Scottie Barnes isn't a good player because he certainly is.

: 01:20:53

He showed flashes last year of his jumper starting to develop.

: 01:21:01

Obviously he's going to need to become more consistent with that to reach his highest potential.

: 01:21:05

But he's a dude who's 610, can pass the ball, can rebound, can defend.

: 01:21:13

Pretty versatile young guy.

: 01:21:18

I think those two make a pretty good pairing.

: 01:21:21

And then I know Toronto probably believes in Emmanuel quickly more than maybe I do.

: 01:21:27

As far as him being a top tier point guard in the NBA, obviously he was the 6th man of the year with the Knicks.

: 01:21:33

So you take those three as sort of Toronto's big three and then you look around at the rest of the roster and try to figure out, okay, what else are they really doing?

: 01:21:44

They have Bruce Brown as a guy that can fill in as a spot starter, come off the bench.

: 01:21:51

They have Kelly Olenek, who always is a guy that's valuable as your 6th, 7th, 8th man.

: 01:21:57

You got your man peertle in the middle, manning the center position.

: 01:22:03

I don't know.

: 01:22:04

I don't think the rest of this team really makes a whole lot of sense around those big three guys.

: 01:22:12

I think the thing you have to ask yourself is where is Scottie Barnes in the development arc and is he ready to sort of be the focal point of this team, which he became after they traded Siokam.

: 01:22:25

Is he ready for that?

: 01:22:27

I think I agree with you that he's ready to lead a team to 30 wins.

: 01:22:31

I'm not sure he's ready to lead the team to 45 wins or to relevancy, but I think the combination of Barrett Barnes and quickly, those are three, I think, pretty good young players, maybe not great, but three pretty good young players.

: 01:22:47

I'm going to give them 30 wins and I'll give them the over as well.

: 01:22:52

All right.

Mike: 01:22:52

The wizards of your over under is 20 and a half, Mike.

Mike: 01:22:57

I'm going half.

Mike: 01:22:59

I'm going under.

Mike: 01:23:02

They're bad again.

Mike: 01:23:08

They can't get out of their own way.

Mike: 01:23:09

They're bad again.

: 01:23:12

Well, they want to be bad.

: 01:23:13

So, yeah, it's probably a good thing if you're a Wizards fan.

: 01:23:16

The Wizards are incapalooza the process.

: 01:23:19

So in the Eastern Conference.

: 01:23:21

Right.

: 01:23:22

I think that the only teams really that want to lose at this point are the Wizards, probably, and the Nets.

: 01:23:33

Because the Nets they did get, I didn't they get theirs.

: 01:23:37

They got some of their draft capital back that they had traded out.

: 01:23:42

And so I think they are.

: 01:23:45

And the Wizards are the two teams that are set up to, to take.

: 01:23:49

Yeah.

: 01:23:49

If you look at the Wizards, you have to just say, I don't know.

: 01:23:56

I'm not sure what this team really is trying to do.

: 01:24:00

Well, I know what they're trying to do.

: 01:24:01

They're trying to, they're trying to lose.

: 01:24:04

And the question for the Washington Wizards this year is, what do they have in Alex Saar?

: 01:24:12

That's the number two pick in the draft?

Mike: 01:24:14

Yeah.

: 01:24:14

Hula, Hula Bali, who they drafted last year at, I don't know, number seven or number eight.

: 01:24:19

It was teammates with Lemonyama.

: 01:24:21

How does he continue to develop?

: 01:24:23

Is he a guy that's going to be a part of their core moving forward?

: 01:24:26

I know they're excited about Bub Carrington, who got drafted this year out of Pittsburgh.

: 01:24:31

He was like the 16th or 17th pick and there was a lot of buzz around him.

: 01:24:35

At summer league.

: 01:24:36

My guess is he gets a decent amount of minutes.

: 01:24:39

So this team has some okay players, but as a collective group, I'm not sure how much sense any of them make.

: 01:24:48

And clearly this team is going to be trying to lose games.

: 01:24:52

And so the combination of a weird roster playing, lots of young guys motivated to lose, to get into this year's draft lottery and get a shot at Cooper flag and probably to stay bad to get a chance at the bandsta the next season.

: 01:25:12

In that draft, I think Washington is going to be committed to doing whatever it takes to finish at the bottom of the Eastern Conference.

: 01:25:20

So I think it's going to be a tank off between them and the Brooklyn Nets.

: 01:25:24

And so I would expect that the Wizards are going to go under 20 and a half.

Mike: 01:25:30

All right, we've done it, Mike.

Mike: 01:25:33

We've succeeded all these teams.

: 01:25:37

Do you want me to recap it?

Jason Sunkel: 01:25:39

I mean, if you want to, why.

: 01:25:42

Don'T you pick, well, here's how, here's how I'm going to recap it.

: 01:25:44

I'm just going to count the over and unders for each of us, and then why don't each of us pick our favorite lock?

: 01:25:50

So while I'm doing this, you can kind of be, oh, I'm listening.

Mike: 01:25:53

Or think my, my lock is the Cavs and over.

Mike: 01:25:56

Done.

Mike: 01:25:57

Locked.

: 01:25:58

Okay.

Mike: 01:25:59

Locked in low.

: 01:25:59

Right.

: 01:26:01

I think that might be mine.

: 01:26:03

In all honesty, too.

: 01:26:04

Like, I look at that number and I just don't see with the continuity.

: 01:26:08

And then, by the way back, I.

Mike: 01:26:10

Want to do revisionist history.

Mike: 01:26:11

I said the Cavs won 51 games last year.

Jason Sunkel: 01:26:13

They only won 48 last year, Mike.

Mike: 01:26:15

Okay, but still spill, still listen, they.

Jason Sunkel: 01:26:18

Were so injury prone in J.

Jason Sunkel: 01:26:20

Baker staff was your coach, and they won that many games.

Jason Sunkel: 01:26:22

So I just can't, I can't wrap.

Mike: 01:26:24

My head around them not winning that amount.

: 01:26:28

All right, so, Jason, you have six overs.

: 01:26:33

You have the raptors, the Bulls calves, the heat, the buck and the magic as your only over.

: 01:26:43

So you have six overs, nine unders.

: 01:26:48

I have the Raptor.

: 01:26:50

These are my overs.

: 01:26:51

The Raptors, Celtics, the hornets, the calves, the Bucks and the magic.

: 01:27:00

So I also have, if I counted right, I also have six.

: 01:27:06

So we are counting on our overs to go way over at our, I'm sorry.

Mike: 01:27:11

Yeah, we haven't done the western conference yet.

: 01:27:15

That's true.

Mike: 01:27:16

That bounces it out a little bit.

: 01:27:18

That is, that is true.

: 01:27:19

That is, that is true.

: 01:27:20

So, all right, well, we both went with the Cavs as a lock.

: 01:27:24

I think I feel pretty good about that.

: 01:27:25

I don't think that's a homer pick.

: 01:27:27

In all honesty.

: 01:27:28

Just looking at it and trying to evaluate it, I feel like that's a reasonable, to me.

: 01:27:36

Yeah.

: 01:27:36

To me, that one, that one stands out despite the fact that I know we're cast fans.

: 01:27:39

So.

: 01:27:40

All right, we will leave it there.

: 01:27:43

Next week, we will come back with the Western Conference over unders.

: 01:27:47

At some point we will do our tiers of the NBA, whether we incorporate that into the preview or not.

: 01:27:54

We'll also do our wins and losses draft, which was fun.

: 01:27:57

I still owe Jason a pizza from that.

: 01:27:58

He's trying to get some permission to get paid up on that pizza, but nonetheless, we appreciate you checking us out tonight.

: 01:28:08

And to everyone out there, thanks for listening and we will catch you on our next episode.

: 01:28:13

Thanks.

: 01:28:17

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