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Why is it that so many podcasters and podcast guests are doing

stuff that doesn't work is often boring and may even be damaging to their

personal brand and professional future?

Welcome to Podfluence, the podcast that helps coaches and speakers build

professional authority through podcasting.

In this episode, we're gonna take a look at some of the bad advice out

there and some of the things that I see people doing and have probably

even done myself from time to time.

That doesn't work, especially as a podcast guest who is looking to build authority,

become known, and maybe even get invited back onto some of the best podcasts.

Okay, let's start the show.

Now.

I can remember being on my way home one time on the bus that I've taken

many times, passing through the city center of Valencia where I live,

and we reached a stop by the train station and everyone else on the bus

got off except for me and the driver.

Now the urge to get up and get off the bus was so.

I almost did thinking, well, this must be the final stop.

Maybe for some reason there had been no announcement from the driver, and the

driver wasn't telling me to get off.

I convinced myself to stay put.

The doors closed, the bus carried on.

We trust the wisdom of the crowd, even at times when we shouldn't.

And I see and hear it all the time in podcasting.

In continuing with my series on the seven deadly sins of podcasting, we

Reach number three, ignorance or what?

Lack of awareness.

It's an especially important one for podcasters because most of us get into it

without a clue what we are doing at first, and many will make the same mistakes

that I, myself and countless others.

Of thinking that if you're having fun and enjoying it, then your audience will too.

I know I've said that and I've heard many other people say it too.

This is a wild and unfounded assumption, but I'm not gonna suggest that you

shouldn't enjoy your podcast experiences.

But let's take a look at the list so far.

So number one in our list of seven Deadly podcast sins was

gluttony, self-indulgence.

Number two was selfishness.

Number three is then ignorance or lack of awareness that still

leads us with 4, 5, 6, and seven

to come and they will be following pretty soon.

So we are not quite even halfway on the list yet, but this issue

may be the one that I hear most commonly from the podcasters that

I speak with on a daily basis.

Whilst it's true that you don't know what you don't, Ignorance may allow

for some short-term bliss, but in the long run it becomes painful.

We don't want to put in the work.

We hate the long-term process, and we just want to sit down and hit record,

but that's rarely a recipe for magic.

It's more like the ingredients for a casserole of mediocrity that

you'll be eating for every meal.

And maybe I need to ask my friend Simon Lancaster for some

help with my metaphors here.

So he is ignorance bliss.

Well, ignorance allows others to take advantage of us and it allows

us to think that we're doing great when we might actually be failing.

Choosing not to learn the ropes or receive any feedback on what you do or

how to improve it is gonna culminate in one massive reality check that

will pull the rug from under you,

and make you feel like the fool you hadn't realized you were, if

you don't hit pod fade before them.

I've had some similar experiences in public speaking.

It can be humiliating and most people will lose their drive and maybe even

quit after an experience like that.

So, how do our brains work against us?

Well, our brains are complicated things, but that doesn't always

mean that we are complicated beings.

The brain uses a lot of energy each day, about 20% of our energy

reserves even in a resting state.

Certainly more when we start to tax it.

So it should come as no surprise that our brains like to conserve energy by

taking shortcuts or perhaps what we can more technically call heuristics.

Some heuristics are constructive and save us a lot of time, but many

need to be corrected and lead to getting mired in fallacious thinking,

and sometimes to arguments and even fights if they're left unchallenged.

We can't be expected to constantly remember that we have received

programming throughout our lives that dictate our norms and values from

family, from school, environment, government, peers, and media, and more.

Transcending our programming is often viewed as an act of defiance

by those who either prefer to accept their programming as correct or are

too fearful or unaware to change it.

What are the effects of influence them?

Robert Cialdini talks about authority as being one of the key drivers of

influence and even cites some quite terrifying examples of experiments that

were done where people were prepared to deliver what they believed were

fatal electric shocks in a staged simulation to a subject who was an

actor because the person in a white coat conducting the experiment told them to.

Not everyone did, but most did.

And it was in large part down to a mix of Cialdini's weapons of influence,

which also likely included a blend of consistency as they had agreed to

take part and maybe consensus as well, because it seemed like everyone around

was okay with this and it was normal.

It is honestly amazing and just a little scary, just how much we will

go along with consensus and orthodoxy just because everyone is okay with it

and there doesn't seem to be sufficient reason or always to question it.

This is one reason why cults teach adherence techniques

like thought stopping.

Because if you actually start to think rationally about what you're

being told and question the voice of authority, you will probably end up

coming to your senses and leaving.

Potentially stirring up similar ideas in others.

People are generally much quieter when they're not asking questions.

We move on then to the art of the con, and most cons happen when some

element of trust has been established and our reason to question what is

happening or why is happening has.

Turned off for a while, but we're regularly conned in other ways too.

Media and politics mostly drive the narratives of popular discourse, past

behavior, and our sense of who we are causes to act in ways that try to

stay consistent with that identity.

we follow the crowd because it seems like they must be right.

If everyone else is doing it, we should too.

Guess what?

This is a long-winded way to get to my point.

I apologize, but I feel like it was a necessary diversion.

As podcasters and podcast guests, the vast majority of us follow the

crowd and do what we see others doing.

Sometimes we see guidance and if we are fortunate, Or thorough enough, we may

find help that actually works for us.

Any podcast coach worth their salt will tell you there is a shit ton of

bad podcasting advice out there, and some is from seemingly successful

people who we may think we can trust.

Fantasy versus reality then.

We often get taken in by the idea of things.

It's a bit like getting a dog.

The idea for many of us is a nice idea.

Dogs are wonderful, but the reality is one of daily walking in all weather

conditions, picking up poop, lots of poop.

Vet bills, dog food, dog friendly hotels on your holidays, or dog sitters,

chewed furniture, fur all over the place, and a very distinct dog smell

that you never used to have at home.

And did I mention the poop?

That dog and its wellbeing are your responsibility, and if you are not a

particularly responsible person already, you are probably not going to suddenly

transform into one when the dog arrives.

More likely the dog will have a less than optimal existence that it's

ignorant owner thinks is just fine.

So it's not just about us.

Ignorance may be bliss for us, but it can be painful to others.

Like my friend, let's call him Fred.

Everyone else calls him Dan, but we'll call him Fred, who publishes his

unedited podcast conversations with no intros, a poor quality microphone, an

untreated room, and untreated audio.

He's an interesting and very intelligent guy.

I want to listen to his conversations, but sometimes, It takes so long to get to the

point in his episodes that I give up or the sound is so bad that I find something

with better quality to listen to.

I can't really say he's ignorant of this.

He knows and really he doesn't care enough to fix it.

For me, that's like having the best information and delivering it in the most

boring lecture style that you can manage.

Only the most committed people will wade through it.

What Dan is ignorant of is that podcasts also need to be entertaining

and not like you've just accidentally landed in someone's zoom room.

I've said many times before, but your enjoyment of a conversation does not

equate to good content, and your use of controversial opinions or strong

language doesn't necessarily make you edgy or compelling to listen to.

Do you have any idea how many people out there call their

podcast something like Real Talk?

It's not the hook point that you think it is.

Ignorance really is no excuse as a podcast guest.

So ignorance will hurt you as a podcast guest too.

If you don't keep a check on certain things like who's show you're going on,

what's their style of interview, whether the conversation will be edifying,

will the show get cut or promoted?

Will you sink or shine?

Do you give longer answers than are needed?

Are you really listening to the questions being asked and staying

aware and present with the interviewer?

Have you curated your message in the right way for that audience?

Do you know what the win is for you appearing on the show or for the host?

There's so much to consider.

One time I agreed to do a show where it seemed the primary product of

the show was built around marijuana edibles and there were other guests

that I didn't know about as well.

The one just before me was a Donald Trump loving gun toting, woke hating, redneck.

And let's just say I was in the virtual waiting room, wondering what

the fuck I had got myself involved in.

The interview ended up being great and a lot of fun, but when I look

back, Fun did not translate into professionally useful, and I'm not

in podcasting just to have fun.

Looking back, agreeing to that interview for me was a mistake, although thankfully,

not a very painful or costly one.

The most significant cost was the time.

I could have spent that time doing something to advance

myself professionally.

I needed to be more careful about what and who I was giving my time to and

how it may affect my professional.

I'd fallen into the trap of thinking that going on any slightly relevant

podcast at all would give me a boost.

If I look at my stats from such things, there have really only been two shows

that I guested on that gave me major boosts to things like my email list,

which is my main call to action.

And I realize that if I did more of those shows and less random stuff, I

would probably see much greater results.

In fact, there's no probably about it.

So do you just start or start right.

This is a hard question to answer and there's a lot to be said for

just diving in and getting started.

I would have to go with the diplomatic answer, which is that it depends.

Depends what you are looking to achieve by going on podcasts.

If you are all about just having fun, carry on as you are, doesn't really

apply if you're seeking to generate more business and build professional authority.

Then you would do well to get more strategic and prepare yourself well.

I'm not a big advocate of the expression how you do anything is how you do

everything, but it is useful in terms of how we think about things.

Again, a heuristic.

So since we have been talking about heuristics running in general

tendencies, if you do tend to half ass things, you're probably gonna do

that with your podcast interviewing.

What about the resistance?

Well, it always surprises me how often people resist the idea that you

need to work at podcasting and learn how to make a good show that has a

specific objective for the audience.

Just as much as being a podcast guest, people often think that

they are more interesting than they really are, or that they know enough

to be the expert, or they have the personality to be the next big thing.

But there are things that work and things that just don't.

I would hope that unless you are a very experienced speaker, you would

get some help in coaching before doing something like a TED Talk.

It would be see arrogance to think you didn't need it and would likely lead to

regret when your less than great talk is splashed around the internet and top of

search results when somebody Googles you.

Your professional image needs to be curated, and I know some people

don't like this idea, but it's the.

If you want to be seen in a certain way by your audience, you need to

do as much as you can to curate that image and act in accordance with it.

Speak accordingly, and even dress accordingly.

People are desperate to put you into a little box and identify you as one

thing, even though you are many things.

Your curated image should be authentic to who you are, but not to the point where

you are presenting a confusing image of who you are and what you are about.

Not looking, sounding, or feeling right is gonna hurt you professionally

and may already be doing that.

You're gonna get boxed and labeled whether you like it or not, whether it's right

or wrong, and you should do your best to make sure you end up getting filed in the

correct box in the mind of your listener.

Now writing this episode has been a bit of a challenge for me.

First, to keep it on track, which I only just about managed.

I think.

Secondly, the time commitment to actually do the writing and put

the put it in together, and then Covid, which at the time of writing

I was still trying to recover from.

But I believe more than ever, the professional and expert podcast guesting

requires a professional approach, and that perhaps a version of something

like Toastmasters or public speaking programs is needed to help with this.

I'm still noodling on what that might look like.

In the meantime, please keep learning from the podcast pros

who are my guests on the podcast.

Amazing people like Bob Gentle, Lee Carter Jason Cercone on those shows, we discuss

a lot of these issues around charisma, authenticity, and personal branding, and

I'm sure you will find that valuable too.

Now, various things have been getting in the way of my publication schedule

as happens when you are doing a podcast and working in a full-time job.

So I apologized for a lack of regularity.

I've been doing my very best to try and get episodes out more regularly, so

the schedule has been a little bit off.

I am still promising four episodes a month.

I will try to release them on Mondays as much as possible.

My next show is gonna be an interview with Tim Reid, a very experienced

podcaster from down and under.

Who has an incredibly successful podcast and knows a thing or three about being

on podcast, running a podcast, and building influence and persuasion.

He has built up a big business through his show and had a lot of fun speaking

to him, so make sure you don't miss that.

We'll be continuing the seven deadly sins of podcasting with

number four in a couple of weeks.

So make sure you are subscribed to the show and we'll see

you back again very soon.

Where if you're going, whatever you're doing, have an amazing day.