Today’s guest is Nicole BZ. In this episode, we cover a lot of ground and you get to hear about the absolutely fascinating and meandering career path Nicole’s walked.

We talk about being in control of your own experience, creating your own reality. And the fastest way to change anything is to change your perspective. Taking inspired action to put one foot in front of the other and keep going. To use your values as a compass to know which direction to go. And her definition of failure as the only way you fail is if you quit.

Nicole is a strategic business coach with 25 plus years of leadership, management, and entrepreneurial experience. She has started, advised or led more than 38 organizations and invested more than 1,000 hours into coaching executive level business owners. She keeps the embers burning with live music, being outside as much as possible, writing, and reading.

Nicole’s hype song is I Will Survive by Gloria Gaynor. Listen to it here: https://youtu.be/FHhZPp08s74

Website: https://nicolebz.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nbzcoaching/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thebzchannel

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebzchannel/

Find the Brene Brown values assessment tool Nicole mentioned here: https://daretolead.brenebrown.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Values.pdf

Quick reminder, for community and camaraderie, Come join us in the Fine is a 4-Letter Word Facebook group.

Hello, and welcome to Fine is a 4-Letter Word. My

guest today is Nicole BZ. And Nicole and I were introduced by

the magnificent Carolyn Herfurth. So I just want to give

a shout out to her and say welcome to the podcast, Nicole.

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm truly

honored to be here because fuck fine.

That's right. That's what we say around here. Yeah.

So yeah, I have a lot of notes from our original conversation,

and I am super eager about getting into hearing your story

sharing your story with with all the listeners, and let's start

out with what were the beliefs and values that were instilled

in you as you were growing up, that perhaps contributed to some

of the decisions and pads that you took as you grew up?

Fantastic question, I have first generation and so I

was very much taught to work and work hard. I was also taught

that, you know, they can take everything, but they can't take

what's up in here, and I'm pointing at my brain hole for

everybody who can't see. So you know, essentially, what you

learn what you know, and what you do, is who you are. And I

have carried that with me. I went through I have actually a

survivor, I had cancer when I was younger, so that just

compounded that work ethic that take life. You know, you are in

control of your own experience, you create your own reality. And

the fastest way to change anything is to change your

perspective. And then you just put one foot in front of the

other and you keep going the only way you fail is if you

quit.

Were you taught that failure that that's what failure

meant was the only way to fail is to quit, or was there a diff?

I don't know, there was lots of definitions. My

parents have a fairly narrow view of what successes and I

think for most of us, you know, it looks like a mortgage and two

kids, half a dog and a career that you spend 40 years then

with a 401k plan that will carry you after those that was the

definition of success. So very much carved out a very different

definition for myself and a path that I walk.

Yeah. So then what? So many questions. Okay, so tell,

cuz I know a little bit about your path. So share a little bit

about where you went first, on your career path. And then I'm

also curious to know how that went over in your family, given

what you just said.

Thank you. So I'll try and keep it brief. Because it's been it's

been a long and winding road. So I started working really young,

I got my first job at 14, I worked full time while I was in

college. And I mean, I didn't even go to graduation, I went to

work that you know, and I keep going back to this fine idea

because that's where you and I connected. You know, everything

was fine. I was I had a leadership position and an

amazing organization I was, you know, earning $50,000 a year

before I even graduated from college it I was on the quote

unquote, right path, but it just wasn't doing it for me. And so I

took a giant leap of faith I because I'd worked so much I

never got like that year abroad experience. And traveling is

something really close to me. So again, long story short, I ended

up in Australia. Following my heart following my passion,

which was music, as much as I love the creative arts, my

strength has always been in business. So despite the

positions that I put myself in, I always ended up managing that

space. And so I just kind of went with that and started my

first business at 23 started several more to my family's

disdain. And the good news is, is I in my perseverance, I've

demonstrated to them that I'm okay, and they don't have to

worry about me. But does that mean they're on board? Or they

understand? No, and that's the thing that's okay. I mean, one

of the things that happens when you're a trailblazer, would you

create your own definition of success? Would you say fuck you

fine. You are confident and who you are and how you're showing

up and what you're doing. And it's okay if other people don't

get that. And so I think I answered your question. Yeah.

Just to kind of wrap it up and where I'm at now. So ironically,

ironic. Yeah, my mom got sick. And so I left Australia and move

back to the States, burned it all down, you know, had to start

completely over. ended up in business again, and working in

music, which I never thought was gonna happen. But when you take

those crazy leaps of faith, amazing things tend to happen.

So I now have a A business where I have the flexibility I'm able

to go back and forth and support my mom. I actually just got back

yesterday, and I'm able to work from anywhere and still

trailblazing and still confusing the hell out of my parents. So

some things never change.

I do you have siblings?

I do I have two younger brothers.

Did they follow a more traditional path? I'm just

curious.

My youngest absolutely. My brother, the

middle child, he's he gets a lot of support from my parents for a

variety of different reasons. So we're all doing completely

different things. But okay, yeah, the My youngest brother is

carrying the torch. So hopefully he has some grandbabies for my

parents soon.

Right. Right. But you're the oldest so that also I

am. Yeah. And so my it makes us the, like, we have to clear the

trail for the ones behind us.

Oh, yeah. He's, he's good about admitting that I've

made things a hell of a lot easier for him. I may, I may

have broken a few souls in that process.

Again, that's more about them than you. Yeah, true.

Right. Right. Yeah. So when so we had talked so you spent 18

years in the music industry?

I did. Uh, yeah. I mean, like, I think I started

around 19 and I officially retired at 38. So yeah, it was a

wild ride.

What was it that made you decide to leave that

industry? Cuz it's not I mean, like people, you know, again,

people look at it from the outside, and they're like, Oh,

my God, that sounds so romantic, not romantic, what like, just

like, it's just sounds so cool.

Oh it was amazing. And the my last step, my last

couple years, where were dreams that I didn't know were

possible, I was working with one of my best friends with a an

artist to get to do all of the things that you dream about

artists getting to do you know, headlining that all of the

festivals that you've heard of making, you know, six figure

checks and a gag and traveling around the world and a list and

it was it was a dream, it was a dream. I had always said, since

I got started, that I was not planning on being a lifer, which

is how they refer to it. And at least in the music industry, I

would assume it happens in other industries as well. And I mean,

even 20 years is a pretty good run. And so at you know, at 20,

I was like not past 25 and 25, I was like not past 30, and so on

and so forth. And I don't know if I kind of set myself up for a

phoenix rising from the ashes moment with those limitations.

But my intention had never been to spend the rest of my life in

artists management, and it was just what was one of those

things that happened where I would see a problem and I saw

that and then I built a business around it, problem solved and

then built a business around it. And so I started making little

mistakes. just annoying a typo here. Incorrect date on a

Facebook post there and I mean, it feels trivial but when a

million people are looking at that Facebook post as the

announced for the next day, that's it is a big deal. And the

more I tried to overcorrect, the the more frequent these mistakes

were and it was one of those you know, my my friend and I were

like, what's what's going on here, and she, thankfully, and

don't get me wrong, this was probably one of the hardest

conversations I've ever had. But she said, You know, I don't

think you want this anymore. I don't think this isn't what

where we started this wasn't you know, where you're setting up

the gig and you're touring and you're managing your tour

managing and you're with the band and you know, you're

lumping it, and you're the one collecting the money at the end

of the night. This is like, you know, you have a driver that

picks you up and drops you off 30 minutes before the show and

everybody like walks out on the stage and then like afterwards,

you can figure out if you're gonna you know, so it was just a

very different thing than what I had originally signed up for.

And for most people, like that's where that's where they wanted

to be. But for me, based on my behavior and how I was showing

up in my day to day, it was very clear it's not where I wanted to

be. And so to hear that reflected back at me again, lots

of tears. But she she was incredible. And we were able to

have like a very amicable and separation that you know, took a

couple of months to figure out and it gave me the opportunity

to really figure out where to from here. So yeah, and it's

it's it's been my key indicator of burnout because my

inclination is to work too much and over schedule. I love what I

do. I'm so lucky that I get to do what I'm passionate about.

It's still work and so when I start to double book, my

calendar when I start to forget things that I think needed to

get done that you know, fall under a certain threshold. I

realized that I'm probably overdoing it, I need to take a

step back. Or I just really need to check and make sure that this

still feels good. This is still where I want to be and make

changes accordingly.

Yeah, so checking in with yourself I so what was it

that you? What were some of the the tools maybe that you used or

the things that you did to help you in that transition period,

figure out, Okay, I don't want to do this anymore. But what is

it that I do want to do?

This is not a shameless plug, this is real

talk, I hired a coach. So one of the things that I did do was a

yoga a yoga teacher training, yoga had always been like my

mental health once you know, I did the therapy and medication.

And as I kind of, was able to create healthier habits. In my

day to day life, I was able to step away from some of those

other modalities of healing. And yoga was has been and will

always be a huge part of that for me, at my yoga studio, we

were doing sort of like a, you know, make make your year

awesome, or some type of workshop and I met another

coach, and I wasn't a coach yet. She She ended, she talked about

her life and her lifestyle. And I said that that sounds

familiar. I don't know, I don't know who I am, if I'm not a band

manager, but I do know, like, I need a computer, and I need

flexibility. And especially with traveling to be with my mom as

well. I have to create a life that that looks that at least

ticks those boxes, she just so happened to be a career coach.

And I thought, okay, I'm making a major career transition, I'm

going to get some help with this. That was, I mean, I still

work with this woman, I am now a coach, I ended up studying at

the same place where she studied. And that taught me not

only I mean, it didn't just give me the space to figure out what

next, but it stopped taught me how to how to iterate on that

repeatedly, and how to check myself when I am getting into

those spaces of burnout, or why I am letting fear make decisions

for me and what fine feels like because fine, can be a useful

barometer, especially for someone like me, who is who

moves very, very quickly and takes really, really big risks.

like is this fine? Is it healthy questions sometimes. But fine,

is as a be all and end all are a place where I can stay, it

doesn't work for me. So I've just got so many more tools in

my belt now as a result of of asking for that help getting

that support, and then applying that support as I've moved

forward and created more expansion and growth.

Yeah, but really yoga was kind of the catalyst

for you that he wants you to this coach.

Yeah, I signed up because I had been I'd literally

been traveling and on the road for, like over 10 years. So I

signed up for the teacher training so that I couldn't

leave. Like I had like, an extended program. Yeah, it was a

six month program. And it was every weekend. And you couldn't

you couldn't miss one. Yeah. So that that's actually why why.

And I'm one of those people that you know, I was in a yoga class,

I think, just contemplating like the mistakes I had been making

and my own happiness. And like I was existing in this space of

fine, but aware that I was just existing. And then they

announced the yoga teacher training. And then I looked into

it, and then I had this conversation with my partner and

I was like, Okay, well, this will this will anchor me this

will give me the space, I now have a six month runway here

until I take off again. And so yeah, it was a combination of

things.

It sounds like you took inspired action, though.

100%

That's that's one of the key things is not just doing

something to do something, but you listened and followed kind

of followed the breadcrumbs if you will, that to an inspired

action that led you to the next thing.

Yeah, and oftentimes the next thing didn't get like

there was a breadcrumb. So I definitely got distracted and

yoga teacher training and was like, Oh my gosh, I'm going to

be a yoga teacher. And I stepped that out. And then I thought I

realized fairly quickly, I don't love this. And then it's like,

well, is it just because you're not good at it? Or is it just

because this is something new? And it's like No, I mean,

really, I did this to deepen my practice and to then enable

myself to be able to practice anywhere, anytime I didn't need

a class or a studio. That's freedom for me. But I definitely

It is like I started walking down a path and I was like, Oh

no, this isn't this wasn't this wasn't the This wasn't where I

thought this inspired action would lead me or doesn't feel

the way that I thought it would feel. So I'm going to take a few

steps back and then step out something else. And that's how I

ended up back in Colorado, which is another long story but that I

was here and I had a month. On the side of a mountain, and I

thought, this is where I want to be, and I don't have a plan. I

don't have anything other than this feeling. And this

inspiration of this is, this is what my next step is. And then

that led to, you know, a whole bunch of different opportunities

that I stepped out and then realized, you know, so it was it

was a lot of trial. I don't want to say trial and error, but

trying things really stepping into Is this where I want to be,

How good does this feel? Is this fine? Or is this fabulous?

How good does this feel? That is, yeah, that is

such a great way to look at it into a question to ask yourself

as you're doing it. And the other thing you mentioned, it is

something that we've talked about in previous episodes and

keeps coming up, is you don't have to see the whole staircase,

just take one step, follow that one breadcrumb, if that's all

you can see, then do that thing. And then the next thing will be

opened up to you as you go. But you're not going to see the next

thing until you take that first step. Follow that first

breadcrumb, yep.

On because if you're trying to do something

completely new that you've never done before, and for a lot of

the people that I work with, no one's ever done before. There

isn't a map, there isn't a trail of breadcrumbs. There isn't a

blueprint, there's one step forward. And then from there,

you get to see the next step, but you're not going to know the

how on the one. And it's it's, your brains going to tell you

no, but your hearts gonna be like, yeah. Yeah, the more you

can just tune into that compass and that guide of No, this feels

good. take another step.

Right, this feels good. And as you also mentioned,

if it's not leading you where you thought it was going to go,

or it doesn't feel good. As you continue, you can make a

different decision. Nothing is permanent here. Nope.

Well, in 2020 hindsight, when you look back,

you've made it all work. That's why you're standing here right

now ready to take another step. So chances are, you're gonna

make this work, too. And yeah, you're either gonna win or

learn. That's the way I look at it.

Yeah, going back to when we were talking at the

beginning about what's the definition of failure? That's

Yeah,

yeah. That's just standing still going. Giving up.

Giving up? Yes. Yeah, we haven't. We haven't

used that one as the definition, but I agree giving up. So when

we talked before this interview, we were talking a little bit

about defining, defining for yourself what your values are,

and then using those as a filter to help you make decisions on

how to go forward, since we're talking about making decisions,

how have you used that? Or how do you advise people to use to

tap into that as a tool?

Love it. So in that, like, you don't know how you

don't know and you just got to take one step forward. When you

use your values as a filter, you're that step is going to be

a positive, expansive step. So for me, it's fun, excellence,

adventure and authenticity. Those Those are my values. And

so if I can take those four boxes off, I'm saying yes, there

have been a lot of things that if I hadn't put it through that

filter, I use the example of working with my accountants.

Okay. It is a tenuous relationship mainly I have I

have four different businesses and so just me getting my books

It took us a couple years just for the bookkeeping and their

systems and my systems to align and then you know, there's

deadlines there's expectations and when I was having kind of a

temper tantrum because I think this was before everything

that's been going on you know, we were we were pushing may and

my taxes hadn't been filed and I thought you know, I'm gonna fire

these guys. And I went through my value filter because it it

you know, everybody knows like getting a new Firstly, you want

to, I like loyalty. I like relationships. And I thought,

Okay, this is uh, this is feels like a knee jerk reaction

because I'm pissed off right now. I don't like making

decisions, but I have a lot of energy around them. So let's use

your values as a filter here. And is it fun? No, but like,

it's working with your fountains fun? I don't know. Is it

adventurous? Yeah, I mean, they're teaching me a hell of a

lot. They have such a large base of clients, but they have a very

strenuous system that they put you through. And yeah, I'm

learning something new every day. That's my definition of an

adventure. Is it authentic? I'm expressing my needs, they're

expressing their needs there. I have a lot of trust with them.

And is it excellent. I mean, they guarantee what they do, and

they'll backup you if you ever get audited. And I was like,

Okay, I'm going to step this out a little bit further, I'm going

to give this three more months and just see where we land. And

as I advocated for myself, I, I worked with one of their

bookkeepers, so that at the to ensure that my bookkeeping was

done in alignment with how their systems work, I got to learn

more. And then I ended up getting a massive, massive

return, because it turns out, they've been going through the

last five years of my taxes, not just this, this tax year,

because we'd created some new business structures. And it was

like, Okay, great, you know, had I reacted in the moment of

frustration and doubt I would have, I would have started down

one path, but I used my values, they kept me in check. And then

I ended up getting a really fun reward. So all all was good. And

for, when you don't know the how on the one, you're you're

looking for evidence, you're looking for proof, but you when

you're creating something totally new, all you can do is

look at the success you've got behind you and then trust you're

going to step it out and values are just, I think, a fantastic

parameter within which to go, yes, this feels right, or, you

know what, like, this isn't an alignment. And it doesn't take

off three or four, the my value, so it's it's a no for right now.

And we'll see maybe things will change.

Right? How did you arrive at those values like I

did? Was there a exercise that you did that helped you

understand what your values are?

I love that question. So there are, I think, like

every leadership psychology MBA program has an exercise akin to

a values assessment, Brene Brown, and her Dare to Lead.

I've not actually read that book, but she has a PDF online

that I will direct people to that has a whole list of values.

So it's it's a very, very common exercise. It's interesting, I

find that a lot of people think about it from their personal

lives, or they don't I believe that your values evolve. I mean,

the easiest example as soon as you have children or potentially

get married, or go through like a near death experience, like

everything in your life kind of kind of changes, right? And so I

believe that values evolve some you know, if you've read Ray

Dalio principles, he would argue that there are overarching

things that you're born with and never change, I'm sure maybe for

some people. So when I start to feel a little bit panicky and

weird, I call them my mid year crises. Because like, every six

months, I'm like, Oh my god, what the hell am I doing? I'll

do I'll just go back through values assessment. And it's

basically just going okay, what's the most important thing

if it's useful, there's a ton of lists online that you can just

like go like sir list of values or values assessment, and you'll

circle 15 to 20. And then you'll start to look at it like how did

I arrive at authentic well, truth, commitment, loyalty, work

ethic, a lot of these things that are really important to me,

roll up into that term. And what I realized the reason authentic

is the word that resonated is this idea that what I know to be

true in this moment is an empowers empowering myself to be

able to change my mind, and voice that new reality, whatever

I need to that's really what authentic embodies for me, and

it might mean something different to somebody else. The

challenge is if we have 15 to 20 values, like that's just a lot

of boxes to be continually like thinking about so if I am

refining it, those those four have really carried me and

probably for the last four or five years. Adventure was one an

excellent, you know, those were kind of words that I've played

around with, but adventure for me rolls up, spontaneity,

challenge, yeah, learning, development growth. You know, so

again, there's a lot that can kind of be included in in some

of these terms. And you know, have have fun with that play

with that. And it's, I find it really useful in business

specifically, because your values are how your long term

loyal customers, buyers, clients are going to connect with you

and why they're going to keep coming back from so yeah.

Right. Why? Because there are plenty of people who

can offer what you offer, potentially. Why would they pay

you and it always comes back to because of you they connect with

you. And they're connecting with you on that level. I mean,

hopefully on several levels, but it starts with the values. I

like what you said about re evaluating the value Because

they evolve, they change they do. And this is one of the

things Yeah, when I'm working with my clients in the fog being

find experiences, we start with values and getting clarity on

where what it is that you really, truly want. And one of

the foundational things to figuring that out is to

understand what you value.

Yep. When often times, I find that when we're

experiencing friction and struggle in our day, there's a

misalignment with our values. So we feel like we're having to

sacrifice one of these things that's incredibly important to

us. And what I find really interesting about the challenge

of business and, and professional values, is, in our

personal lives, we can just be like, nope, get out of my way

like these are this is what's most important to me, like, take

it or leave it. But in business, we're often working with people

that we need to address the fact that we're having some friction

here and negotiate it. And so a family is super important to

you. And excellence is really important to me, and we've got a

client who's just called at 5pm. On a Friday, I might get really

upset about the fact that you want to go home and you might

get really upset about the fact that my expectation is is that

you would stay. And there's an interesting opportunity there

for both of us to honor what's important, and then figure out

how we're going to move forward with us without anyone ever

having to sacrifice or then build resentment or, you know,

all of the other things that kind of come along when we feel

like we're martyring ourselves,

yes, to look at it as a growth opportunity. Yeah, I

was just having this conversation this afternoon with

a friend about working with difficult clients. And my stance

was, well, when you're an entrepreneur and you're running

your own business, you can tell them to go away and not have to

work with them. And her and her vision of it is well I see it as

an opportunity to grow and that they're challenging me in some

way. That gives me an opportunity to grow. So two

different. I guess it depends how how much they're pushing

you. Whether you whether it's worth it or you just don't wanna

you know, the challenging client can mean a

lot of different things it can mean someone who's like very

much doubt space and they don't they don't know if they can do

it. And so that is an opportunity for growth but if

you have someone who's just making a ton of excuses, and not

taking accountability and then blaming you for it, that's you

know, like two very different values there are being honored.

So

yeah, and that's what our conversation was

around. So it's interesting that you're bringing it up now.

Yeah, isn't it funny how that always happens?

Yeah, clearly the universe is sending us a message

around that particular topic not just me because here we are

sharing it with everybody now so exactly everyone benefits

well, and this is normal like that it is a it is

normal to feel frazzled and challenged and intimidated by

what's happening and that's where again I find like this the

values are an anchor and then all of the uncertainty that

we're experiencing you can go back to them and go Okay, well

Am I taking these off? Am I safe? Am I secure? Great. And if

not, it's like well are these still important to me? Yeah,

they are okay well then something in my experience needs

to shift it's not me I'm not doing anything wrong here but

like if I you know, my boss is continually asking me to stay or

you know, my client is continually asking me to work

late and family is my number one, then this isn't going to

work that needs to shift and I can address that simply by

saying like these are these are my values and these are kind of

non negotiable right now. So how can we either shift what's

happening externally, or just agree that this isn't a good fit

any longer,

Right. Yes, that's so good. All right. That is a

fantastic place to leave this conversation however before we

do I need to ask you what is the song that you listen to? When

you need an extra boost of energy? You seem pretty

energetic as as the as a person overall anyway, but when you

need extra energy you need that boost of enthusiasm. What's the

song that you can't sit still too?

Well, so like as someone who worked in music

picking one song I know is a challenge but the song that's

really stuck with me is Gloria Gaynor is I will survive

personally like 70s disco anytime I need to like a quick

pick me up that is a go to that song for a lot of different

reasons has been a part of my experience for since my

childhood. And it's kind of an inside joke with some of my like

inner people as well. So it's a pretty special tune but yeah for

a lot of different reasons like that one just gets me going

That is such a good one and then you you said the

Gloria Gaynor version because the other Yeah, it's been redone

a few times but that's the original.

Because it's so good.

It is it is so good. Yeah. Nicole, where can people

get in touch with you if they want to continue this

conversation?

Um, well my favorite form of communication is text

and so people can text me 720-704-4865. I love solving

business conundrums. So hit me up with a problem you're

experiencing in your business. I'm on all the socials, my

handles the BZ channel, and my website is Nicole BZ dot com.

Okay, I will put links to all of that in the show

notes. Thank you so much for joining me today on Fine is a

4-Letter Word.

Oh absolute pleasure. And thank you for creating this

resource for your listeners. And thank you listeners for

listening. This is just so powerful and I just appreciate

everything you're doing for the community.