This podcast episode delves into the evolution of human shelters, highlighting the transition from primitive structures to contemporary designs, with a particular emphasis on the burgeoning trend of sustainable living through container homes. We explore the motivations behind the increasing adoption of tiny homes, articulated by our esteemed guests, Gail Kingsbury from United Tiny Homes and Kevin Fulkerson from Cornerstone Design and Legacy Custom Homes AZ.

Together, they illuminate the myriad of options available for those seeking to downsize without sacrificing quality of life, as well as the financial advantages that accompany such a transition. Furthermore, we address the intricate dynamics of building regulations and how they shape the landscape of modern housing solutions. Join us as we navigate the complex yet rewarding journey of creating sustainable living environments that cater to diverse lifestyles. The podcast delves into the evolution of human shelters, tracing our journey from primitive bamboo huts to contemporary concrete towers. It highlights the pressing concerns of sustainability that have emerged in recent years, prompting a significant shift towards more environmentally responsible living solutions.

Central to this discussion is the rising popularity of container homes, a topic expertly navigated by host Steve Deubel, alongside guests Gail Kingsbury and Kevin Fulkerson. Together, they explore the multifaceted appeal of tiny living, considering factors such as affordability, efficiency, and the burgeoning trend of downsizing one's living space without compromising on lifestyle quality. The episode serves as a comprehensive guide for listeners contemplating the transition to a more sustainable lifestyle, inviting them to embrace the possibilities that container home living presents.

Takeaways:

• Human civilization has continuously sought to create adequate shelter from nature's elements throughout history.
• The evolution of shelters has transitioned from rudimentary structures to sophisticated architectural designs, reflecting societal advancements.
• In recent years, a significant movement has emerged advocating for sustainable living practices and environmental responsibility.
• Container homes present a viable solution for those aspiring to adopt a more sustainable and affordable lifestyle.
• The podcast discusses the rise of tiny homes and their appeal in providing efficient living solutions without compromising comfort.
• Engaging with knowledgeable builders can provide essential insights into navigating the complexities of building and zoning regulations.

Links referenced in this episode:

• unitedtinyhomes.com
• stardustbuilding.org
• idealhomeimprovementaz.com
• boxcaruniverse.com
• mrelectric.com/phoenix-metro

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• United Tiny Homes
• Cornerstone Design
• Legacy Custom Homes AZ.
• Ideal Home Improvement
• Stardust Building Supplies
• Mr. Electric of Phoenix-Metro

Since the dawn of time, mankind has searched for ways to shelter themselves from the elements.

Over the centuries, these shelters have evolved from bamboo huts to concrete towers.

The last few years, there's been a push to save the planet.

Are you ready to embark on a more sustainable lifestyle?

Look no further.

You're about to enter the adventures of Container Home living.

And now, contractor, racer and TV personality and your host for Boxcar Universe, Steve Dubel.

Hi, I'm Steve Dubell, host of Boxcar Universe.

And here's what's coming up on this week's edition of Boxcar Universe.

Today we've got a powerhouse lineup.

Joining us is Gail Kingsbury from United Tiny Homes, a visionary who's redefining how we think about space, efficiency and modern living.

Alongside her, Kevin Folkerson from Cornerstone Design and Legacy Custom Homes.

AZ is bringing serious expertise in high end design, custom builds and turning dream homes into reality.

From compact innovation to full scale luxury.

We're covering it all today, so stick around.

All that and more on this week's edition of Boxcar Universe, your home for container sustainable lifestyle living.

And we'd like to welcome all of you to the show.

This week we've got a lot of different things that we want to get to.

We're diving into a full spectrum of modern home building from compact efficiency living to fully custom dream homes with Gail Kingsbury from United Tiny Homes.

We're going to be talking with her about the tiny home movement, how people are downsizing without sacrificing lifestyle and affordability.

That factor and also turnkey tiny homes can be delivered in as little as just a few short months.

And as, as I saw on Gail's website, it is 120 days, so it is possible.

So we'll get into all that customization, financing options and why more people are turning to this as a smart investment of a housing solution.

And with Kevin, we're going to be shifting gears into high end design custom home building, which I am involved with.

With him, what is really taking a vision, taking he takes a vision to life.

How to manage budgets, expectations and the difference between building a house but also building it the right way.

So go tiny, go large to luxury living.

Done right.

We're going to be covering it all today.

And I want to welcome first up on the show today, Gayle Kingsbury from United Tiny Homes.

Gail, welcome to Boxcar Universe again.

Great to have you back on the show.

Thanks so much.

I love being here.

Oh, it's so good to have you back on here and God knows you've got A lot of things going on in your world, I know that.

But tell our listeners a little bit about, give us a little bit of background about you and the company before we get into some of the meat and potatoes of United Tiny Homes.

Okay, well, you know, the end of this month we're going to be five years old.

So, you know, we started United Tiny Homes right in the middle of COVID and we're hitting our five year anniversary at the end of the month, which is sort of exciting.

We went from you know, having a, another company white label for us to building in a dirt lot and now we're in a 68,000 square foot facility here in Goodyear, Arizona and delivering nationwide.

I mean, it's amazing.

You know what, you know, those are the kind of stories that you love to hear.

It's like some of the inventors were, and they started in the garage and now they're, you know, they got these multi million dollar warehouses and businesses and stuff like that.

And obviously when you started it, did you ever think you were going to be filling the niche that you're filling now, five years later?

Well, you know, we didn't think we would be working with quite as many developers, but we always were going after that ADU market.

We were a little ahead of the game back then and you know, and municipalities were just starting at that point to, to say, okay, we're going to accept these as ADUs and starting to put in that, that ADUs are necessary everywhere.

We were a little bit ahead of the game and now we're, we're full blast putting them in backyards everywhere, filling up parks, creating rental neighborhoods with developers and helping, you know, some of these rural cities come back to life.

You know, it's amazing.

You know, like when we grew up, I mean, the only thing that you saw anything near that was mobile home parks.

Right.

Which was probably the forerunner to what we're doing today.

Absolutely.

And there's a lot of mobile home parks that are manufactured, you know, home parks now that are, that are switching over to tiny homes.

We have one in California near San Jacinto that we, we've, we've delivered four homes there, but they're taking a, you know, a somewhat dilapidated, an older RV mobile home park, small mobile homes, and they're just turning it into a tiny home community.

Which is pretty exciting.

Well, yeah, I mean, it's a, it's a, it's a great kind of facelift because I mean, obviously the, the tiny homes today look so much better than some of those mobile Mobile homes that people used to see dragging around and dropping on.

On pads and stuff like that.

So it's, it's, it's a.

It tells the tale of where we've gone the last 50 some years, right?

Yeah, absolutely.

But so tell us a little bit about.

Okay, so the forte, obviously you're doing a lot of residential stuff and community stuff.

What about commercial applications?

We're, as a company, we're not doing a lot commercially other than residential.

For commercial, you know, we're working with a developer up in Camp verde.

We're putting 65 homes in those are.

He's purchasing them all and they're going to be rentals because there's no worker housing near Sedona.

People can't afford to work there and live there at the same time.

So he just decided to make a difference because he couldn't keep people in.

In the jobs for his own company in Sedona.

And that was that.

That created a big.

A big issue for him.

So he's like, oh, I'm just going to put a bunch of homes here and let them rent them.

Yeah, I mean, that's, that's a big.

Well, yeah.

Sedona.

For all listeners out there, Sedona, Arizona is like what we like to call, you know, north, or when we used to live back in New York, we used to call everything upstate.

So Sedona is upstate from, from Phoenix.

But yeah, it's very expensive to live up there.

Not quite as bad as California, but it's still up there.

So I can understand why he was doing that.

Cause a lot of people, it's.

You can make a good salary depending on the job you have up there, but if housing is over the top, then you kind of like, you know, stuck in a rock and a hard place here.

Well, they.

In Sedona, they actually made it legal to sleep in your car.

Really?

Oh, don't.

Don't broadcast that.

Yeah.

They designated a couple of different parking lots, local parking lots that it was legal for you to sleep there because there was nowhere for people to live.

So.

Oh, wow.

It's really cool for us to be able to, you know, not only are.

We're building a home, we're building a business, but we're making a difference in people's lives.

And that's really what keeps us going.

I think that's.

Yeah, I remember, you know, and over the last.

I remember, I think it was.

Was it like three years ago when that tiny home village on the way up to Prescott opened.

Whistle stop.

Whistle stop.

Yep.

I think that's still in, I think that's still going because last time I went up there, there was tiny homes up there.

There was a couple of smaller mobile homes, but there were several tiny homes up there.

Yeah, we have a few tiny homes in that park.

It's a nice park.

And it's the great thing about that, it's, it's close to Prescott.

You know, when a lot of people in Phoenix, for all our listeners out there, you know, the one thing that we like to do during the summertime when it gets so hot down here, everybody wants to go north to the higher elevations where it's cooler.

Prescott is definitely one of the, one of the areas that it's probably not as expensive as Sedona, but Prescott's not cheap to live with either.

But it has a really old quaint type town.

I really, I really like it.

There's a lot of great people up in Prescott and, but it's, it's, you know, whistle stops right on the way up there.

So you don't have to get into town to be able to experience everything that up there.

You can go bring your tiny home up there and, and they, I think they have short term and long term leases up there.

So you, you've got a, got some great options going up there.

One of the things I didn't tell you about is that up in Page, Arizona, where Horseshoe Bend is, which is a big tourist place, there's a park up there.

We started delivering cabins there for short term rentals and they were booked from like the second day we had the house there.

Wow, that's amazing.

That's amazing that people just are having.

I think that's the way that people are looking now.

They're thinking small and more.

Everybody's got the word affordability.

Yep.

So, but that's something that people look at when they look at their budget.

So I think that is just something way to go.

Not just here in Arizona, but all across the country.

Lord knows they need a lot of that in California because California is just way too expensive to live out there.

I mean, people talk about that all the time.

That's why I think a lot of people are leaving in droves, you know.

Now the other project you've got going on down is in Bisbee, Arizona.

Yes, yes.

Bisbee's really exciting for, for us.

We're, we're actually doing a full development there and creating a neighborhood at the edge of town.

In Bisbee, they, they did a, a housing study.

They had a company come in and do A complete housing study for the city.

And they.

Because the city's dying.

And the biggest thing that they found, the reason why was for housing because it's an old.

For those people who don't know, Bisbee, Arizona is an old copper mining town.

Yes, yes.

And the mine shut down and the miners left and there's hundred year old dilapidated miner housing that they're now tearing down.

But they have nowhere for people to live.

And with the things that are happening with our borders, they've got more security, they've got border patrol, they have another mine that's opened up near there.

But there's nowhere for anyone to live.

So we're putting in a full neighborhood development with the city that will be putting 80 homes in.

So there'll be some rentals and some land home packages for people.

We've done a lot with the municipalities all over, all over the country actually in changing some of their zoning and adding a few things to make it easy for people to be able to have these homes.

Yeah, I mean again, you're filling a need that is sorely needed for people.

I mean they need to live.

And looking at the way the population is moving around now, people are moving to areas that are more affordable.

But yet I think much like, well, here in different sections of Arizona where there isn't enough housing going around though, they've got to look at the infrastructure too.

Depending on where they're building these communities in Arizona.

I know with that big project that they've got going up north on I17, that big chip plant they've got to take into account, you know, where are you getting water?

I mean you could bring electricity over there, but you know, where are you getting the water from?

Because water is such a precious commodity here in Arizona.

So I'm sure that the right people hopefully are doing the right plans to build communities like that.

Absolutely.

I mean they're popular, getting calls all the time.

People.

We want to build a tiny home community or I want to put one in the backyard for my mom or my dad or.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's exactly what they're talking about.

And there are a bunch of different options out there which we're going to take a short break and when we get back on the other side, we're going to be talking with Gail a little more about shift to tiny home living.

Things that you need to know if you are looking for a tiny home.

So I want everybody to hang tight.

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All right, and you're listening to Boxcar Universe.

And we are speaking with Gail Kingsbury from United Tiny Homes.

And one of the things we want to get into at the moment is the tiny home movement and the lifestyle shift because I think we touched base a little bit on that in the first break.

But Gail, why do you find that people are choosing tiny homes maybe more now than several years ago?

Well, I think they're, they're choosing them for a couple of reasons.

One, there's a lot of people downsizing, you know, as the, as some of the older generations are, they're just downsizing.

They're looking at maybe travel.

They're putting them into places where they can visit, like in Arizona, going up to Pine Top and putting a cabin up there without having to build a stick built home.

That's going to take two years and tons of permits and, and then affordability is driving tons.

You can get a 25 year mortgage on a tiny home with as little as 5% down.

Put them almost anywhere if you're working with the right builder.

Right.

And multi generational housing is becoming more and more prevalent across the nation.

So putting grandma in the backyard is a lot easier than putting her in the house.

Yeah, well, that's true.

Let's throw grandma in the backyard.

Okay.

Better than the train.

That's true.

Better than the train.

How funny.

We have a family in California.

We put, they were spending $7,500 a month for their mom to be in assisted living.

We put a house in their backyard and her, her health, her health improved everything.

So they were able to have home health come and help with some of her medication.

She had her own space.

She wasn't worried about was anybody even going to come and visit me.

She's eating with the family, not wondering if she's going to get a ham and cheese sandwich for the third day in a row as a dinner and, and then preserving the family's wealth.

Those are the stories that I think are making a big difference.

And there, there's an entire culture that's moving away from big homes where, where, you know, we at our age, like, I love having a five bedroom house because I had kids and people all the time.

But all of the, you know, the younger generation, they don't want what their parents had.

They just want something simple.

They want simple living.

They're outside, they're doing, they're going and they're not.

The materialistic part of things has gone away and they're, they're really just downsizing.

That's what we see.

You know, and I think that's something is really good too because you could take a tiny home and you know, I know several different people that, you know, got in, got interested in tiny homes and now a lot of them, they built tiny homes and they're traveling around the country with them.

So there's nothing saying that you can't have a five bedroom house.

But also if you have a five bedroom house, you've probably got a big piece of property.

So you've got room to park that tiny home on your property and then take it anywhere you want.

Right.

You know, so.

But our other guest is online with us, Kevin Fulkerson from Cornerstone Design and Legacy Custom Homes.

And Kevin, do you have a big piece of property we could put a tiny home on along with a luxury house?

I got one.

We probably put 10 or 20amonth.

So yeah, it's really.

Yeah.

Well, we'll be getting together on stuff because we wanted, I, you know, we want to do some development work and got some areas laid out.

But one of the concepts or I guess misconceptions that a lot of people have is, well, we'll just go buy one to put it in our backyard.

And I, I caution people, you've got to know what the building codes are.

You gotta know what the building codes are and that and then work with the cities because most tiny homes, if you're going to put them in a standard area, you got to have,.

Oops, we lost you.

I think we lost you.

Yep.

But while we're waiting for Kevin, he is right, they don't Go in every backyard.

You have to.

So on the Phoenix and surround the area.

A lot of them have put moratoriums on modular homes or mobile homes and for the reason that they tend to get ratty and stuff.

But there's.

There's gonna.

A movement going to the smaller homes that, that are going to be a better quality, that type of thing.

So I just, I tell you, got to know the rules.

And the other misconception is, well, we'll just get one of those cargo containers and finish it out.

Well, it's not that easy because cargo containers, even though they stack them 10, 15 high, they're not structural when you go to do it for living.

So anytime you start cutting holes, you've got to have engineering on it and then finishing out, people think, well, it's only, you know, 300 square feet.

It's got to be cheaper per square foot.

It's actually more costly because you're still doing a kitchen, you're still doing a bathroom, and you've got your minimum insulation requirements.

So I.

It's.

Sometimes it looks like, well, we just put.

We put these containers on our property.

There are areas, there's some up around Young Arizona.

There used to be some out west of Prescott that you can.

There's basically, you go get the permit and it just says one small home or whatever it is.

There's no inspection.

So it's a matter of knowing where you're going to put this and then, like you said, working with the rules.

So there are areas around here where we could go in and propose a.

A development where they're going to put 10, 20, 50, 100, whatever it is.

And when you do that now the cities are winteress because you're providing affordable housing, because housing has gone up.

And even though Arizona is still affordable in most people's eyes, for the common people, you know, guys working at McDonald's or a gas station or whatever, where do you live?

Unless you stack two or three families in a house, it's become a real challenge.

You know, it is a real challenge, and you're right, because the, the permitting and the zoning have everything to do with whether or not you can or can't have a home.

We've worked with a lot of municipalities to change the rules with them.

They all want to be able to accept them.

Some of them don't know how.

So wherever you're at in the country, wherever you might be listening to this, whether it's Arizona or Timbuktu, it's really important to work with a builder who knows what they're doing and have the builder speak to the city, not you.

Because a lot of times we know.

We know the verbiage and what they're looking for, and we can help them before they tell you flat out no, because, you know, the wrong words are being used.

Right.

And that's very important, too, because when in the early stages of using tiny.

Getting tiny homes and container homes, cities didn't know what to do when somebody presented them with a plan with a container home.

So, you know, again, the verbiage had to change as well as they got a little smarter because a lot more people were doing it.

So then it became turnaround, and the term was modular homes.

Modular could, you know, is a big gray area that covers a lot of different types of homes and.

And that's made life easier to them to get permit, to send them through the city and get permits.

Right.

But I think one of the biggest things.

And Gail, I'm sure you've hit a lot of milestones with all the different municipalities you've spoken to, but I think one of the biggest things that breakthrough in this industry was the fact in here in Arizona.

Well, I think it was maybe two several years ago, two or three, when the municipalities decided that they were going to allow secondary dwellings on the properties along with the initial primary dwelling.

And that.

That opened up a.

A whole new world for all of us that are in this industry.

Right.

I remember.

I remember you were out at Westworld when, I think within two months after that law was passed, because I saw the placard you had on the table that said, yeah, these municipalities are now allowing it.

I mean, it was just.

It was.

It was a pleasant surprise to see.

Yeah, you know what?

It's been a lot of work.

Yes, it has been a lot of work.

You know, and Kevin, you know, with some of the people that were down that submitted plans for container homes, you know, like you said, it requires engineering.

It requires.

The reviewers didn't know what they were looking at because it was like trying to figure out the value of a container home in a community where there are three regular homes.

And now you're building a container home.

They had no comparables, so they couldn't put.

They couldn't figure out what the value of it was.

But, I mean, you know.

Right.

And I know that you may have come by my phone, dropped a little bit, but on and so on.

The tiny homes, correct me if I'm wrong, you have a license, you're manufacturing them, so your inspections happen actually at Your facility, is that correct?

Yes.

So right now we have two different things going on here at the facility.

We have our ANSI certification for the factory, so they can have an RV tag or a parking lot.

But we've just worked with the state to get our factory building so that I can stop arguing with some of these other municipalities.

Same house.

Go ahead.

This is.

That's it.

Same house, different sticker.

But all of the inspections for the home are done in the factory.

So when we deliver it, it can just be connected to the utilities and.

You're done right now.

That was one of the issues with a lot of the container things, is if you're doing your own, you got to go through a lot of hoops.

But the guys that are building them in a factory, it's a lot less because you've got that, that.

That stamp or seal, that certificate, whatever the name plate.

And then so locally, if you do that, you're working with the jurisdiction, say it's in Phoenix, you're working with them for the foundation.

But.

But the state then controls the setting of it.

So it's.

It's not real difficult.

But if people don't know what they're doing, they can run into issues.

And so I just warn people a lot of times, be careful.

The guys that say, oh, we're just going to grab one of these, you know, these sheds that have little front porch built in.

We'll just build it out in your backyard.

Yeah.

And you might be, you know, building a very expensive.

How do I say this?

If you finish it out and then you get caught, you could either tearing stuff out or getting rid of the whole thing.

So, yeah, there's a lot of fines involved in that.

So, yes, it's important wherever.

Wherever you're building that you work with, work with a builder or find an installation company that knows what they're doing with the type of house that you're building, whether it's a container, whether it's a tiny home, if it's a tough shed that you want to put a bathroom in, those are.

You really have to work with somebody who knows how to do that permit,.

Knows what they're doing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You don't just get.

Somebody said, oh, we can do that.

We get a lot of that around here.

So, yeah, I caution people, if somebody.

Go ahead.

Sorry, go.

Oh, just don't buy one off the.

Internet, like, well, oh, geez, the ones we had, we're doing a work on a big commercial project out here for design a hotel, which is to Escape Park.

But the general contractor is a friend of mine.

He looked online at buying one of these offices out of China just to use on site.

That would have worked fine, but they actually placed the order and the company sent their deposit back and said we quit shipping.

What he found out was they didn't know if they could get it here because of piracy and so many things.

So they actually found one and Cat's grand came up construction site and using it for an office.

But they show these things in for 25,000.

You get one folded out and everything's involved and everything.

And I said, if you buy that, you're making a big $25,000 mistake because you won't be able to put it anywhere unless you put it on a travel trailer type body.

So.

Well, we actually, we had one of those really cool capsules.

Yeah.

At the factory.

Somebody bought it and they had it delivered here to see if they, you know, what they thought of it and stuff.

And out in our yard one day we hear boom.

And went out there and the windows had blown out on that big patio where it looks so cool and all those.

You're kidding?

Glass couldn't take the heat.

It wasn't.

I was gonna say because of the heat.

Yeah.

Really.

I mean, that had to be it.

And so it just blew out.

And we did have the state come over and they wanted to see it.

They looked at it and they're like, just please tell us you're never going to try and put this anywhere because we won't permit it.

Oh, yeah.

Ever.

Oh my God.

Definitely.

For people that are concerned, they're going to pick somebody reputable and like Stephen, we do construction.

Even when we do the design part, I always tell people, look, there's guys out there that'll be cheap.

And then there's also guys that would be very expensive.

It doesn't mean either one of them know exactly what they're doing.

We run into people who say they're doing a regular house.

And I've done these for over 30 years now and design.

Well.

They said we had to get a structural engineer.

We're going, why?

Well, they don't do structural.

Well, basic structural.

If you can't do that to me, you have no business designing or building.

But.

And then they make them get MP E on the house, which isn't required.

So I feel bad.

So we're.

We're going to start doing videos to market this and go, look, if you really want a tiny home, talk to us first.

But also you brought up about Going up at.

Was that Camp Verde?

Yeah, I think so.

There's other areas up there in Black Canyon city, there's a 200 unit now.

It's modular homes that they're putting up.

Not tiny, but it could have been modular homes.

Every one of them is rental for the workers going into the big factory up there.

Big chip plant.

Right.

There's three subdivisions up there of houses being built.

None of them are for sale.

The plant built those for the workers are bringing in because they have no housing.

Exactly.

So it's a huge market.

So we're going to be looking at that with you and stuff, because you've got the plans and we can get the development and all that work done.

And it just makes it go a lot easier when you have people know what they're doing from the development all the way up to getting the home set and ready to go.

That's right.

Because, I mean, how many businesses have we seen or developers have we seen to try and do certain things in certain areas?

You know, and they put up the construction fences and the big signs and, you know, we expect things to, you know, start growing out of the ground here in a couple of months.

And then all of a sudden you never see anything happen because something happened to developers or, you know, some.

Something they found out that is going to prevent them from building what they want because of a city code or something like that.

And it was an oversight when they first decided to commit to the property.

So these things are important that you, you know, you cross all your T's and dot all your I's to make sure that once you.

You venture into this and you put a large amount of money down that, you know, it's, it's.

It's going to be.

Something's going to be done with it.

It's not going to just go down a black hole.

So that's where people need to vet their contractors.

Steve, that one we were kind of involved in up in Williams and probably never came to fruition.

Died doing the containers.

He'd never done it before, but he was raising money and he got a commitment and we got doing the plans and stuff.

And I don't think new timber happened with it just because the guy didn't know what he was doing.

And that's, that's.

You see people coming out of the woodwork and they think they know or they.

They watch some YouTube stuff or go on to AI.

That doesn't always mean somebody knows what's going on.

So, no, it's just a real area to be very careful.

Yeah.

And it was funny too because, you know, I went up there the, the day that they were going up there and I had gotten somebody to do grading, to grade the property in lieu of getting, you know, getting ready to do pads for the containers and stuff.

And then when all that went south, you know, I still had the, the neighbor's phone number because I made sure I took the neighbor's phone number in case I ever needed them for anything or, you know, just to have a watchful eye next door.

And I called them one day and I found them like, did they ever build your container, the container home, your neighbor?

Yeah.

And they.

No, they said it never ever happened.

So the only thing that ever happened there was the, the grading got done.

So, you know, it's, it's amazing that people don't do their due diligence.

Even people that claim that they're doing well and it just doesn't happen.

But we're going to take a short break.

When we come back, we're going to talk about some of the, the process of getting a tiny home from Gail and a little bit more about customization and some other design tips from Kevin.

So I want everybody to hang tight.

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All right, we are back and you listen listening to Boxcar Universe.

And we are here today with Gail Kingsbury and Kevin Fulkerson.

And we were talking tiny homes, luxury homes, and everything in between and what it could take and you could have both.

Gail, how does some of the products and stuff that you have in the tiny homes are, we'll say green friendly.

We do actually a lot of green friendly.

We have got different materials that we can use.

We, we even have a really cool cork product to use as siding.

Looks like stucco, but it's made out of cork.

Triple a fire rated completely green.

No off gassing.

It's a really cool product.

That's not with Randy, is it?

Yeah.

Yes, I know Randy.

Yeah, that's a good, that's a good product.

I like that.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I know Randy very well and thank you, Gil, for introducing me to Randy.

You know, we went out and videotaped a couple of project commercial projects where he put cork on and he actually did his, his daughter's home over in Scottsdale.

I went to look at and it was just, it's just amazing.

It gives it a whole different look.

And Kevin, it looks besides looking like.

Yeah, it's cork, but it almost looks like a, almost like a sand stucco finish when it's done.

Yeah, we looked at one of the home show up at.

I think it was Westworld in Scottsdale that we met him up there.

Yeah, which by the way, Gail, are You going to be at the home show week after next, like the third or whatever?

Third, second, third.

Whatever.

No, they're here.

No.

Yeah, okay.

Yeah, because they, they have.

Yeah, I think that's it.

I think that's at Westworld, I think.

Yeah, but they're not having tiny homes with that one.

Oh, they're not?

No.

What's wrong with them?

Yeah, I mean, what is wrong with them?

They feature us, they feature us once or twice a year, but I don't think they're doing a feature this time.

And so we won't be at this one.

Okay, sorry.

Well, we'll be on the lookout for it because obviously that's a, that is a big thing.

I mean, I know in the January show you had a really great presence over in the tiny home community and associate kind of different kind of alternative building homes in that area.

But, you know, we'll talk about design and you know, exactly what, when people come looking for a tiny home care, what did the, what's a consultation look like?

How do you decide on like what model would, might be best for them?

Because you've got several to choose from.

We do have several to choose from.

It really depends on what they're using it for.

Is it a vacation home?

Is it, you know, what are they really looking for?

For the thing about our homes that is, that are different than some are, that we, you know, we say go tiny, live large.

Right.

Everything in our homes are all full size appliances.

Full size.

Well, it says tiny home.

The first thing you say when you walk into one of ours is, oh, I could live in this.

That's the main idea.

Right.

Well, but it's like, you know, the bathroom's not so small that when you're sitting on the potty, your knees are in the shower.

Oh, yeah, that could be a problem.

You know, if they're, they're, they're not an RV in the typical sense and they're.

But, but we really, you know, we talk to people, it's like, okay.

Which they come in and they may say, well, I want this.

And then we talk about what their lifestyle is.

It's like, well, you may want to have this instead.

Maybe you want something smaller because you don't need the loft, your knees don't work and you're never going to get up there and you don't have grandkids to crawl up there.

So why don't we look at what is going to be, you know, make you the happiest in your lifestyle.

Lofts are cool, but like you say you have to, you have to think about that.

Is the person that's going to be living there going to be physically able to get up there.

All of our homes have a downstairs bedroom.

They all have a ground floor bedroom.

And the other thing that we talked about during the break was handicap accessibility and making sure obviously that the height of the tiny home is acceptable for the people that are going to be living there.

Or do they need a ramp?

You had mentioned that the door is ADA compliant, so somebody could get in through the door with a wheelchair.

Right.

We include 36 inch doors so that walkers and wheelchairs can get through if they need it to be, if they need a home to be wheelchair, you know, accessible.

We can lower, lower cabinets, make, make your sinks so that you can roll under them instead of having them solid.

And that's, that's a big plus.

Yeah.

And we put in roll in showers as well as change out the threshold in the front door, which are little things that people don't really think about.

But you know, when you're coming in and out of the door, if you don't have a, a wheelchair, you know, an 88 threshold in the door, it makes it hard because there's a little, it's a real pain in the butt to get things over.

Yeah.

Unless you've had somebody helping you get up and over.

And that could be that.

That doesn't always happen 100% of the time.

Yeah.

So that's, that's, that's important.

Kevin, do you find with the homes that you're designed and stuff like that, do you get a lot of people that are, that make mention that there, besides the home, There are people.

We're doing one now.

It's not the one we're building, but I've got one in design that all the, all the interior doors except for closets and guest bathrooms are all three foot in the bedrooms, everything.

And they just, they just wanted that.

So that's becoming more and more common.

And you don't have to have that.

You can do an offset hinge door which on the 26 will fold back and you get almost as much room as a three foot.

But there's a lot of options out there that people are considering now.

And you got people that aren't, they're not retiring it, you know, 60, 55 and 60 anymore.

They're working well into their 70s and 80s.

Right.

It's, I've got people that are, you know, they're going, well, everybody said, why you build this big home?

And my My thing for me is when I get ready to build one here pretty soon for myself is just because I want to.

What does it matter?

It's amazing to me how many old people just say old things and, you know, just, it's.

I don't know, it bugs me because I, I'm not, I'm not just gonna go.

I don't play golf and I'm not a sports nut.

I don't like the beaches.

I like.

I like what I do.

I like to work.

I like helping people.

So why do I.

Why would I give up?

Oh, it's so big.

Well, hire a housekeeper.

I don't know, I just.

It bugs me.

But yeah, I'm dealing a lot now where people older and they're.

And may, you know, maybe your kids will want to come and stay with you for a while.

You're not having to sleep on the floor on the couch or whatever.

So for me, it's.

It's what I want.

And I'm going to have what I want, even if it doesn't make sense to a lot of people.

Well, you know, if you can afford it, I mean, then, yeah, if you want it then, then you can get it.

I mean, there's no reason that you can't.

But again, you know, I think that's why, you know, around, around the valley, you see a lot of different size properties, all different size homes, even some of the ones that they're building now that are, that are a little bit crammed tight.

I mean, I know when I first bought my home in Arizona that, you know, it was, I think.

Well, let's think about this for a minute.

I think, Gail, you know, you three bedroom, two bath.

Yeah, yeah.

And that was, and that was.

It was.

I was beyond belief.

I'm like, you gotta build a home in 45 days.

Outside.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah, no problem.

Yeah.

And they did.

They did.

It was.

They just blow and go.

They just blow and go.

I've got a question.

It seems to me one thing is that tiny homes are becoming almost now what park models used to be in these mobile home parks or modular whatever you call retirement areas.

Yeah.

But I think it's a better product too.

Well, I mean, there's, there's different manufacturers.

Right, guys there?

Right?

Yeah.

You can still get a park model and you can still get a park model.

For a lot less than you could buy one of our homes.

Our home's gonna have a park model sticker on it as well.

But it's built for residential code and park models don't have to be built to a residential code.

And the, the issue with a lot of the permitting.

Right.

Is that they'll put park models in parks, but you can't put a park model in the backyard because it's not.

That's right.

Code.

And so the piece that we work with all these municipalities is changing the definition.

And once they change the definition that it has all of these residential features that they want, then they're.

Then they're changing it.

Right.

And to me, so it's almost some of these big retirement communities.

They've got a clubhouse, they've got different activities things.

But you could do the same thing they're doing with park mods with these.

One question I had.

Go ahead, sir.

Our houses right now, like we've got, you know, people looking at our homes, inspectors and stuff saying that our homes have like a 75 year lifespan.

And you're not going to get that with a park model.

No, no.

Even though a lot of them, they last a while.

But how do you do one?

And we have a situ.

We had a situation putting one in the backyard where there's no alley and you may or may not have a side gate that's big enough.

Can you crane them in?

Yeah.

Okay.

I figured you had to have some option for that because that does happen around here where it comes in.

People have a house and nobody uses their garage anymore.

They park out in the front driveway, fill the garage full of crap.

Well, they want to close it in.

But you can't get a building permit on a lot of houses because if you don't have a 10 foot side setback and you don't have an alleyway, you can't provide code, legal parking.

So we'll just park in the front of our garage.

It doesn't meet code in most places you're building or you're parking in the building setbacks.

So being able to create one of these in is huge.

Because a lot of times they can't close in that garage now.

Yeah, we crane.

We've craned plenty in.

Yeah, I mean that's.

Yeah.

Really?

That's the only thing.

That's the only way you can do it.

I mean, even with, you know, I've done that with spas.

You can't get through this side gate with the thing on end.

It just call, call your Local crane company and they will crane it over your house and put it on the pad that you've created for the spa.

And it's the same thing for a tiny home.

Absolutely.

You've got.

Yeah.

Real quick too.

Can these be set up for natural gas?

Yes.

Like what tanks is water heaters and stuff?

Absolutely.

Okay.

Natural gas, propane or all electric.

Perfect.

Good.

And go ahead.

Steve.

Sorry about that.

On the unitedtinyhomes.com website you've got for all our listeners out there, I urge all of you to go on the website.

There's a lot of different sizes and styles.

I'm looking at a couple here, you know, 340 to 399 square feet called the Cheyenne, the Drifter, 380 square feet.

And then for all our luxury people out there who love, you know, Cadillacs, they have the denali extreme, the 400 square foot home.

So which is, you know, it's 10ft by 40ft long, which is pretty much just a smidge wider than a 40 foot container home.

But that, there's several other ones on there, the Gemini, the Sierra, and then the studio design, which is, is an interesting concept because Gail, that might be, that might be the home for grandma.

You never know.

300 Square feet.

And a lot of those homes as, as, as backyard casinos for parents.

And the Cheyenne is also a great one too.

And we've, we've done some, you know, we also do custom work.

You've got a specific thing.

But you know to what you were talking about, Kevin, with ADUs, you know, they're, most municipalities are changing those setbacks.

So if they're allowing you to put a guest house in your backyard, they're changing the setbacks and they're, they're changing the, a lot of these parking things.

Part of the problem is, is parking.

That's a big problem.

And that's why they're like in the city of Phoenix you can have a guest house, but technically you're not allowed to have it as a Airbnb because,.

Because there being a parking space.

One thing just real quick on is so parking there right now and it's probably going to change.

ADUs do not require any additional parking.

Correct.

And so I know in Mesa I had a gentleman that had a house and he went on doing adu.

So I went in just to check with the building code people and he could have an attached ADU and a detached ADU and not have to have any additional parking.

He was like, I don't know, half mile from asu.

So it was great.

So a lot of places are doing that.

Where the required parking comes in is the original house has to either have one or two depending on when it was subdivided and all that.

But parking is going to become an issue because so many people are getting upset that people have an adu.

They got a big house and they got five, six, eight cars there.

But they're only, they're only required to have two parking spaces.

So.

Right.

Yeah, it's something depends on neighborhood you're in.

If you're in an hoa, that's where you got to really watch the rules.

Because hoas can supersede the codes.

Most of them work alongside it.

But I've had people that couldn't do what they wanted to do because the code says we don't care what the city says.

You, you bought this and signed, you obey our rules.

And they, they just don't give a lot of things.

Yeah.

HOAs are the one thing that can trump the city.

Yep.

Except for life, safety.

But other than that they can, they can do it.

Definitely.

Yeah.

I mean, yeah, it's, it's again, you know the, the HOA police to come by your home and, and start giving you grief based on.

Oh, they do that too.

Oh yeah.

Yeah, they'll do it now.

Also the code change that in most jurisdictions if you put a, if it has sleeping and kitchen purposes, it's an adu.

It's no longer a casita.

Used to call them casitas and I get red lines.

All this is not casita, it's an adu.

So I got around one where they, it was basically a, like a studio.

Had a bathroom.

We didn't put anything cooking in.

So we're able to call it a casita.

We avoided having to submit it.

I got that one over the counter and we didn't have all those.

The new handicapped adaptable rules.

And they're gonna put a sink in.

You can have a little refrigerator but no cooking.

Later on they put in hot plates or whatever.

So that's another thing.

I love these.

I tell people, you really, most people, you can have a convection oven on the countertop and stuff.

I rarely use my oven in my house.

I don't cook big meals like that.

Yeah, I mean a lot of, a lot of people when they are, they scale down.

They are, they're calling.

Either calling doordash or they're getting some of those other places where they have those pre cooked meals which is really great for them because.

Yeah, all I gotta do is warm em up and that's it.

And then it's not like the old days.

I remember when I was a kid, you know, my gonna show my age here.

You know, my mom used to pull out, I think once a week she used to pull out those Swanson TV dinners in.

You remember those?

Oh my God, yes.

And especially the ones with the string beans, which I just got rid of those.

The string beans.

Ned didn't like string beans.

But anyway, but you know, again, these are things, and I wanted all our listeners, these are things that you need to consider about.

And I think the best way to obviously do that is to talk with Gail and also with Kevin, depending on your particular situation and see exactly what you want to do and sit down and figure it all out first.

And if you need their assistance, they'll be more than happy to have consultation with you and help you with, you know, you want to, you do what you want and what model you might want for a tiny home, whether it be a custom built or an existing model.

And then Kevin also with his expertise and dealing with the municipalities and stuff like that, these are two great people that have a wealth of knowledge to be able to help you make a decision on what you'd like to do with the tiny home that you have.

And then again, like we said, you know, you have your initial, you know, wants and desires now, but you need to take a look at the long term aspect of what you're doing here because you know, it, they're, they're not, you know, inexpensive and you are going to put some money down on it, but you want to make sure that you use your money wisely and they could help you through that process, which I think is very, very, very important.

And it's.

And please, and I'm sure you guys will agree with me, please, please, please, if you see something that you like on the Internet, don't buy it.

Oh my God, Please, please, please stay.

Away from that TEMU stuff that they're.

Oh yes.

Oh my God.

That TEMU stuff is like, I think that stuff is like worse than China.

Well, can I tell you though that there are so many fake tiny home.

Oh yeah, there I, there, there's.

I constantly see homes, pictures from our factory of homes we've built and delivered to other people that are sold for 25 grand on these sites.

And you know, it's crazy because I go on and I say, hey, I really love this house.

How can I buy it?

Can you, can I come and see it?

Blah, blah, blah.

And one, one group even had A picture on the inside.

It had our logo on the inside on the tv.

And they were selling our home.

I was like, you gotta be kidding.

So you're getting extra exposure.

We're getting extra exposure, but it's really damaging.

But not the way that you wanted it.

Yeah, we had one couple come in here and they had sent $15,000 to a company that they found on Facebook that was said they were building their home and they were a total scam.

We went so far as for this particular couple, it was, this was their last home.

They had, they had sold their home is all they had left.

They were living on friend's couch because the home never got delivered.

Oh my God.

Yeah, we worked with them and, and just took, took that out of our profit margin and disconsider the 15 grand somebody else.

Those are the ones you real feel sorry for.

I've got two clients right now.

Contractor took money and now it's ghosted him.

And I'm trying to help them get through but they, they need that money back and so they're working with your roc and stuff.

But it happens a lot just on regular little stuff too.

So.

But, but I think we got some real good possibilities.

When you know what you're doing, you don't have to worry if you're gonna get clients, the good clients will come in and the ones that are really cheap, they'll go out and try to do it themselves, whatever get burnt and said not everybody understands it's not free.

Just because they're tiny doesn't mean you know that they're free so.

Or that they're cheap.

Cheap.

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, it's amazing.

Yeah.

There's a little guide on our website, you know, like questions to ask if you're thinking about getting a tiny home.

It's a free guide on our website that helps you questions you should ask, things you to think about.

And that's.

It can be helpful.

We're updating that right now because some things, you know, as everything changes.

We're updating that guide but it's got a lot of good information.

That's great, that's good to know.

But Gail, tell our listeners again how they can contact you.

They can contact us@unitedtinyhomes.com.

And phone number.

Phone number is.

I never remember this off the top of my head.

And then Kevin, how can our listeners contact you?

They can get through your website.

I think we're still on there sits working together Cornerstone Design Associates.

Our website is being, is, is being updated so they may not be out yet.

But my email, rto52s n.com they can just get in touch with you and do that.

But we highly advise people the consultations are free.

I'd rather help with somebody for free, stay out of trouble, then get a job and not be able to, to satisfy the client.

So let us know if you've got any questions at all because we do a lot of, I say free work, but it really, it helps people out and that always pays off in the long run.

Yeah, that's really great.

And for all our listeners, make sure that, you know, your, you know, Earth Day will be here in a few days.

So make sure you take some time out during the day to do something for enhancing your sustainable lifestyle.

And you know, that's not like going to Starbucks and getting rid of your straw.

No, I'm talking about something, talking about something real and make sure that you take an interest because we all have to live on this planet.

I think it's very important.

I just, you know, I just caution people because there are people out there that take this green, you know, the green movement that we talk about all year long to the extreme.

And I think that's when it becomes dangerous.

So you need to use good common sense when you're talking about going green and living a sustainable lifestyle.

So make sure that you do that.

And that'll be coming up here in a few days.

But thanks to all our listeners for listening to Boxcar Universe every week.

You know, we are your source for cutting edge information on container luxury design homes and container pools.

So let us help build your dream home vision.

And these two, my two guests today are definitely people that can help you do that.

If you have any questions at all and would like to contact me, you could always contact me at steve@boxcaruniverse.com and Boxcar Living can be heard weekly on any podcast player.

And always remember, let us containerize your lifestyle.

Have a great weekend.

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