The transformation of businesses leaping from being mere ideas to fleshed-out concepts with real potential to earn money occurs inside incubators. Business incubators act as a catalyst tool for the economic development of the company. In this weekly podcast episode of Diving into Crypto, Sam Lai, Founder and CEO of Metaincubator speaks about how metaincubator facilitates the launch and growth of start ups as well as corporations.

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INCUBATE TO ACCELERATE - SAM LAI

Participants:

JP ( Host)

Sam Lai ( CEO of MetaIncubator)

00:23

JP

Welcome welcome welcome to our episode of Diving Into Crypto. It's been a fantastic week, a phenomenal week in the crypto industry. We've seen so many things happen, and who better to guide us through today's program than the gentleman who we are about to introduce? Before we begin, ladies and gentlemen, please remember you have reaction buttons over there, so if something touches you, something resonates with you, feel free to use them. All views extended on this program belong to that of the speaker and is meant for educational purposes only. That being said, this is your host, JP. From AdLunam, Inc. Speaking to you about Web3. Ladies and gentlemen, let's welcome with a thunderous round of applause to the room, the founder and CEO of MetaIncubator. In Dubai. Mr. Sam Lai. Welcome, Sam.

01:22

Same Lai

Hey, thank you. Thank you. Love to be here.

01:27

JP

I'm so glad. I'm so pumped to have you on the show today. When we had met in Dubai, it was an amazing room that you had set surrounded by fantastic people and brilliant minds, and you were the first person that came to mind that I said, let me welcome you to the show so that you can share it with a much larger audience. So thank you for being here today.

01:53

Same Lai

No problem.

01:56

JP

All right, Sam, the audience is curious about who you are, a little about your background and what it is that you're doing. So could you answer those questions for us? Go for it.

02:12

Same Lai

Yeah, of course. Right now, I'm kind of the CEO of a MetaIncubator. Actually in Dubai. So our office is actually in Marina Plaza, actually even we incubate project not just from Dubai. We have a global mandate. So I think if anybody have a really interesting project and want some guidance from old guy like me, then I think definitely feel free to reach out. So I think I tell everybody a bit. Our background, as everybody called this, if it actually mean master in Chinese, so that I'm a little bit old. So when I was in college, I think a lot of you actually haven't been born yet. It was actually during the internet bubble, so that's why I actually studied computer science. Now you can tell how I am. And then after college, because I study computer engineering, after college, I actually joined a semiconductor company that designed CPU.

03:19

Same Lai

So hope I try to make it faster because maybe get yourself boarded. The thing I actually want to tell everybody here for me, study computer science. The right thing to do but potentially go to semiconductor industry is actually the worst decision I made. But at least for the bad decision, I make the good one. At least instead of join Intel, I actually join a semiconductor startup called Transmitter. It actually is a really awesome kind of software company that also building semiconductor. So one of my most famous coworker at that moment is actually the father of Linux Turbo. So I was working with a lot of really smart software engineer to try to design combiner making a real time operating system to try to actually make a kind of low power mobile processor and I think for younger generation at this point, you really don't care about this part of it.

04:20

Same Lai

But one thing I actually want to point out here is when you go to industry and also designing your project, I think it is better for you to study the whole value chain of that industry. You talk about Web3, right? That actually long value change too. When you are doing something in that, I think try to figure out the segment that you try to do actually have the most value capture. Not the least. Just like I'm in a car industry, right? It's a huge industry. A lot of money can be made. But then you figure out I'm only making the school of the car, then the value capture actually very little. Right. Then you actually need to figure out where is the biggest as you said, even cell phone everybody know the brand actually the most important that's why Apple always create all the most value, right?

05:12

Same Lai

06:04

Same Lai

And from there we actually start internally building the HP Tech venture. So right now it's a separate venture arm right now, but I'm actually one of the original member that actually tried to build a foundation there. And when I actually in charge of the whole Asia Pacific and Japan market in terms of working with startup, then from there I actually built the kind of the relationship with all the VC accelerator and a lot of good founder from there. And then after I left HP, I actually also working kind of in a VC firm called USA Venture. So my partner actually is a German investor. That's why we actually work with a lot of German corporate just like Audi, Siemens to help them actually scout startup and also do internal corporate innovation project. That's actually how I get into the startup industry. And then from there I actually figured out I need more experience on running the whole business.

07:03

Same Lai

That's why I actually go back to my family business to run the business, our Beijing and also fascinating, I actually learned so much when I go to China, I see the scale of manufacturing. The potential was huge market. I was just doing that until the Pandemic. So it actually kind of go into the question that okay, why I actually moved to Web3 because during the Pandemic I was in Hong Kong. So I would kind of go back to hang out with some of the friends who also kind of lock up in Hong Kong, right? So we kind of like drinking every day, having meals and just talking. But I actually don't realize at that time all of my friends are actually most of them are actually in crypto business already. Because before the Pandemic, Hong Kong actually is pretty much the kind of the crypto capital of the world.

08:00

Same Lai

Everybody actually stayed. Finance was there, FTA is there, the people you name it is there. But at that moment, because I'm still for the old tech industry background, I kind of still don't watch Bitcoin. This is really true, right? Just like some software why people work a piece of software or some kind of digital token with that much money. But I'm still talking to them and they are some of the smartest people because all my friends are super smart. I'm always the most stupid people within our group, right? And I kind of talk to them, I argue with them.

08:37

Same Lai

And at the end, because at that time also there's a lot of options like people can make a lot of money on foreign exchange or like trading stock every different way, right? But why they so focused on crypto? And then I started listening to them and think about it and study it. Because I'm computer engineer in training, I so study XBox Blockchain. What is that different compared to the old technology? Why it's so unique? And then it really kind of make me become a believer of crypto. Actually, that two step. The first step is actually I read a really simple book. It's called "How to DeFi" by CoinGecko. I think everybody should download that book and you can finish in a couple of hours even after because it's actually really very it's a book for dummy. It teach you how to use connect to your wallet, put some money in your wallet and how to do some DeFi, go to compound and do some sticking.

09:40

Same Lai

It's very simple. And then it actually tell the book, tell you about what are the different company in crypto. Most most of them are DeFi and what they are doing. And then I kind of see that it actually will be a big disruption for the whole banking industry because you can actually put the human nature, you can put all the operator out of the whole equation because everything is decentralized and everything is automatic and everything is seamless. You don't even need permission to open a bank account. So I actually think it's really disruptive. And then whatever actually put the coffin on the nail is when BlackRock actually start investing crypto mining company. I think if you look back, go to Google it and search for BlackRock and crypto mining. But I think everybody in audience know actually what's the BlackRock? Right? So they are based in America.

10:38

Same Lai

11:36

JP

Well, yeah, looking back to it seems a spectacular story because I wanted to actually ask you specifically what got you into the Web3 space? And you answered that beautifully. And the answer was also in a situation where most of us would really love to be where we are not the smartest in the room.

12:00

Same Lai

Yeah. And then I think the main invitation is why everybody should get involved with wet feet. Then you can see, background is the American institution. So when an institution, influential institution, come in, it means they really will change for good or bad, right? Potentially they may have some regulation come in. That's why we actually all see recently for last month or something like that. But the good side of the regulation is actually if you remove all the scam project like the bank project in there and actually really going to hell for the good project. So even the valuation of the good project actually go up because when you have a kind of a fair regulation foundation for the whole crypto industry, then a lot of investment will come. Just like Blackrock is managing $10,000,000,000,000. They put 10% that's like a trillion dollar. And then you don't even talk about all other SS company.

12:57

Same Lai

Right? That's one thing I actually saw that actually it actually be a lot of more potential. And one thing actually the last thing I just like when I think about this question, it actually even make me more believe in crypto because that's also we can go back to later. Some of the project I'm looking at right now, especially on DeFi because they're not talking about sticking on. You don't kind of rude to anymore, right? It's really try to build financial product for regular people. That's actually one big avenue actually we're looking at also for regular people not just like you can talk about banking, you can talk about insurance or you can talk about gaming too. That's a lot of different variety. But even in terms of banking or insurance right now, the really interesting thing about crypto is that's something called DAO. So if you talk okay right now, pretty much banker and the insurance company have so much power to kind of affect your daily life.

14:07

Same Lai

Just like if I'm opening a noodle shop in Chinatown, I want to borrow some money. It actually already depends on the banker to lend money to me or not. It's a big decision but if you talk about we're free, I have a DAO investment DAO to decide if Sam should open a noodle shop or not. Potentially that may be a better decision because the DAO may be the local DAO in this thing. They all ported low Sam and then they say oh in this area they should really need a little shop and potentially a better decision can be made and also insurance company, right? If you talk about instead of but everybody kind of have a negative connotation about insurance company, right? They always love when they take your premium. They always say good thing oh we take care of you when you have problem, we take care of everything.

14:59

Same Lai

But then the thing is when you have problem right, they try to do the best they can to give you as little money as possible. That's what insurance companies do, right? But if you come back to in a DAO situation, a more kind of commuter perspective, maybe the community will much willing to help you too because then we think about it, okay. Right now Peter have some emergency at home, maybe he really some cash, he got insurance too, he paid the premium then we should help it. But then maybe tomorrow I have the Same situation and then I wish other people will help me too. So it actually will have a very interesting effect on the society of the future. That's why actually I'm socially committed crypto that's why I moved to Dubai instead of the MetaIncubator and go 100% in crypto and metaverse.

15:55

JP

That's awesome Sam, I'm so glad that you're into this particular space where there is obviously so much that you are willing to share, more than just having learnt you're willing to share it with the community. It makes me curious to ask, what are some of the initiatives that you are a part of?

16:18

Same Lai

Yeah, one initiative I really want to get into is of course as a developer background, I want to connect with all the developer who actually or the builder of the Web3 industry rather than just people I think even some NFT back, some really good builder. But then I don't really want to work with some project. Right. Because Dubai actually is really unique because it actually got right now the policy is very supportive. The enrollment is actually very free. Pretty much everybody from around the world can get in. Even you are from Iran, you're from Russia, you're from anywhere. You can come in Dubai and work here. Right. And because of the oil industry and they have a really strong banking sector for doing financing and then because they also realize that the oil industry will not be there forever, they have a lot of incentive and policy to try to change the economy.

17:20

Same Lai

But then the only thing they really miss is and then of course because Dubai have a really awesome city life too. A lot of people love to live here. It's really safe, really clean. The service is amazing. Compared to a lot of other countries it's a good place to live. But then I think the one thing they're missing in terms of the crypto society is they don't have enough developer and builder and kind of a really good international marketer too. That's actually one thing I try to build. So I actually work with a group of really super technical people. Of course they are much smarter than I ever know and Dubai and have a kind of a society called Coffee With Crypto. And that's why every Saturday at the beginning just few of us are having coffee discussing technical issues. The difference between PoW, PoS, privacy on blockchain and that digital identity, auto technical stuff.

18:18

Same Lai

18:52

JP

Coffee is of course one of the most neutral things you can build a community around and the good fortune of being in the room with you guys and it's phenomenal the energy in that room. Ladies and gentlemen, I generally never promote anything on this particular show. But if you're ever in Dubai on a Saturday evening, make it a point to reach out to Sam here on his MetaIncubator handle. Visit that space. That room is pure energy. I mean, if you want to mint the crypto space, you need to be in that room.

19:27

Same Lai

Yes, a lot of people try to present their project to get feedback from a lot of experts and then we got to pick and picker. So it's a basic sure.

19:38

JP

I mean, that place, I guess, is on par with Diving Into Crypto. But yeah, just saying.

19:47

Same Lai

Yeah, hey, you're a part of it too. So we are together. We may not be like physically together, but in the Internet level, we are always together.

19:56

JP

Awesome. Okay, Sam, I have to say, being at the MetaIncubator. It looks like, of course, a fantastic set up and incubation actually means a lot of things to a lot of people. And I'm certain that a large number of people in the audience at this point are thinking about what incubation is, what it can do for a project. Could you tell us a little about that?

20:23

Same Lai

I actually think right now, I kind of think that the incubator kind of work, it's not appropriate word for what we're doing in here even actually you talk about y combinator or incubator accelerator too, right? When you talk about incubator, you talk about a constant nice temperature to maybe incubate an egg or a baby, right? But then what reality? What we try to do is actually give you the 100% dose of reality, because a lot of really good founder, they always have the vision, the idea. Therefore they try to build something that want to change the world, but then a lot of time that actually they don't really think about if that thing is really useful for other people or not. That's why incubation is actually when you develop a product, we actually put the reality back to you. So sometime actually we put you in help because we are really critical on your product market fit to really try to challenge your idea to see if people really need your product or not.

21:29

Same Lai

I think that actually what incubation do because I think that's the two main issue I saw from most of the project because a lot of them that we work with a really strong technical reality. But I think two of the areas they always missing, number one actually is marketing that actually will also actually go back to the product market feed and then are they actually running a good marketing campaign to promote the startup too?

21:56

Same Lai

And then the second one is actually the fundraising. But fundraising also actually depends on your marketing because as you can see, right, if you have a high usability startup, it's much easy to raise money. If you do a startup that nobody ever have listened off and then no other VC have ever listened off, then people be more critical when they look at your project. I think that's why one of the really simple advice for all the founders who actually listen to the talk right now is at least spend like half of your money or half your resources to do marketing. Because for some incubator you talk about by company data, right, they probably just said you should almost pretty much spend 80% of your time on doing marketing, talk to potential customer, get feedback. When you build an MVP, always try to underbuild, not overbuild.

22:47

Same Lai

Because when you're underbuild because you know you're going to keep changing your MVP anyway. So why you want to overbuild? So get something kind of working. Can show what you try to do. And then talk to customer and get feedback and then you be able to get and then once you really got the product market fit when you're scaling then you really fix your scaling and technology issue. But that usually happens to all startup. It's very typical and similar. But then for me I have so much experience dealing with different companies then I can talk to the founder and give them more advice on which step and what should they do.

23:25

JP

Okay, so if you're a project then in a nutshell what an incubator helps you with of course is marketing with funding, building your community and of course advice. Right?

23:38

Same Lai

Yeah. But at the end number one thing is important market fee. Are you building something that other people want?

23:46

JP

Okay. Sorry, Sam. Go ahead.

23:52

Same Lai

No, yeah it is fine.

23:56

JP

Right, okay. You must be coming across so many projects and in an iffy uncertain industry like Web3 in crypto specifically, right. Is there also an avenue like other businesses or mainstream industries? Is there a lot of support from a government side?

24:25

Same Lai

It's actually not that much. Yeah, because Dubai they do have a lot of initiative on the metaverse on this, on that. But for me right, I think the most important thing for project is really getting the product market fit. The only actually kind of useful support is from the government. I saw other incubator and other VC who actually got funding from the Abu Dhabi government to invest on startup. So one of the program they have is called Flat6 Labs. It's actually kind of accelerator from YouTube but they have kind of department in Abu Dhabi right now. So they actually have totally funded a government funded accelerator program that's a post startup and the other one I think is a Sumo Ventures. They kind of work with Flat6 Labs and also have an accelerator in Abu Dhabi. But Dubai, I don't think there's anything yet. They potentially happen in later the year or the next year.

25:32

Same Lai

But for MetaIncubator right now we actually do everything by our own money. We funding it ourselves. That's why we are very selective on the project too because we have no quota to meet. The only kind of circle that we got to respond to is our own investor and own partner. That's how it works. But at the end one advice if you're doing a startup sometimes it's the last kind of outside influence that you deal with is the best. Because the thing that more really important thing is deal with your potential customer directly. Of course as you are an early stage founder you don't know how to reach out your potential customer that's why the incubator actually will help you.

26:22

JP

Certainly I mean there's two heads always better than one and it's always better to have an advisor or information from people that have been there, done that have a larger broader vision, right? And I believe that.

26:40

Same Lai

Also for startup speed is actually the number one thing. It's all about speed, how fast you iterate your product and have achieved product market fit. So sometimes when you're dealing with a lot of slow organization, like a government or a big corporate at the beginning, actually may not be a good thing. But when you scale, when you have achieved the Potter Market fit, and when you scale to mass market, potentially it's more useful at that stage.

27:09

JP

And that's, of course, that holds true for businesses, especially if you're looking to scale, you need to scale with speed, and for that, you need the right kind of help. It's interesting you mentioned this about projects and I'm certain that you come across a lot of projects some of them at different stages from either ideation to the point at which maybe they're ready to go to market but what is in some of these times it's like they're just halfway there, right? What's a stage from in your experience that a project is ready to be incubated or ready to at least send itself out there to the industry?

27:56

Same Lai

I think there's no officially the Y stage I think it really depends on the founder do they really want to work with someone that improves their idea? That's actually when they are ready to incubate because for some of the project I talk to them and I give them my advice and then they never show up again. But only a few founder. Then it's come back and we discuss more and they figured out the product market free. So one of the company actually I'm working with is called MetaEye. Just like I met the founder in one of the event. And then at that time he just started he just have an idea because he actually running his own kind of software consulting company already. It's a very successful one. That's why he know how to build product that can scale already. But then he kind of want to start doing his own startup and then he saw OpenSea is like a billion dollar valuation and then OpenSea still sucks.

29:00

Same Lai

Can we do something like this? That's why we start talking about the idea then I say hey but then there's so many NFT marketplace already why you want to do another NFT marketplace? And that NFT Marketplace is really the Same kind of the real product that solve someone's problem you don't need to solve everybody's problem but what you at the most basics idea is all start up to solving small group of people's problem at the beginning. So we talk, we kind of iterate that idea from kind of OpenSea version of the platform and they become cross-chain. How can we maybe support? And then we talk about metaverse. So we become kind of a platform, the metaverse but metaverse have different metaverse, right? How can we transfer a 3D object NFT across the different metaverse? So become a cross-chain kind of marketplace but still the idea is not there and then we keep talking about iterated and then at the end we actually find out the real problem on the market is now the life of all the 3D kind of object creator.

30:21

Same Lai

Their life, it just sucks. Even when they create an object, they spend so much time designing it, drawing it, creating it, and they only make maybe $50, $60. Banks because they have other password out there taking a big cut. And then a lot of them are kind of really customized. They cannot be shared. And they're not talking end customers directly. There's a lot of so many middle men in between, and that's why they're working on creating a platform that actually really target 3d creator and then really help changing the workflow so they can create a 3d object fair UCD and also lean the NFT fair ECD. And then they're also working on potentially working with some kind of 3d object standard. Then the object can share between different metaverse and then that idea become a much better idea because the market is bigger and you're really solving someone's people's problem.

31:29

Same Lai

And that's why the staff got funded because investor only really kind of focus on what kind of business you deal with. Building is not what kind of product you're building in there. I think it's really kind of a specialized issue. I want to mention to all the founder in there. When you have a startup, right, you want to build a product it doesn't matter what it is, it can be a game, it can be a software, it can be whatever, it can be a token. What it need to be is solve someone's problem. Anyone just like your grandma, maybe the Same across the street like someone or maybe speedy creator or maybe trader a special group of people solve that problem. But you are not trying to build some product that solve the investor problem because VC doesn't care. Because VC have no problem. They're rich people, they just stay in man, they have no problem whatsoever.

32:31

Same Lai

But what they really focus on is what kind of business are you building? So you can have a product that solves other people's problem but we will never make money, just charity. So that's why you need to by solving other people's problem, you got to have a business model too, right? Eventually you're solving those people's problem but those people are willing to pay for that from that moment that actually become a business and then investors are only looking for that. People will like to pay for your product rather than. Just your product, it's useful so it's this really subtle difference but that's exactly sometimes the incubator people we actually have you to go through this like to help you understand it. What are the differences that when you have when you go to present to the investor right then you have all the information that investor actually looking at.

33:28

JP

Exactly. I think you explained that you've described that as one of the things that most people just take for granted the fact that business exists to solve problems right and the more fundamental they're able to solve that actually larger the that audience they are able or the larger the client base they are able to reach.

33:56

Same Lai

Yes. You guys are building a wonderful product for the launchpad too right? I'm looking forward you guys solve a huge problem for a lot of projects.

34:10

JP

Well, we'll certainly look to synergize more with MetaIncubator. For certain Sammy because there is so much of a network that all of us in this room and in the industry can aim to work together in that Same direction. That said Sam, what I have to ask you is that a large number of people in our audience and me personally also big Shark Tank fan, right? Dragons there Shark Tank and it doesn't matter which country it came from I'm certain you're working with some really stellar projects and you've given us one example. Are there more that you can share with us?

34:58

Same Lai

Yeah, of course. Another company is Cohy Pubmai. So they are actually kind of a decentralized Identifier or identity company. Because then you can see, right, because right now everybody dealing with kind of a Web3 is just a wallet and wallet is just a number. But then how can you kind of build a personality on top of that number, right? That's actually a lot of work to be done on that area. And that's why you can this is also kind of a big kind of runway space. When you solve this problem, there's so many application can be on top and really growing a billion dollar industry and potentially can bring billion people into the Web3 kind of area. Right. So that's actually I think it's another disruptive area even that's why they have a lot of competitor. But then our orders different company the best team and incubate them and hope them they can become one of the top kind of products in that space.

36:06

Same Lai

Because that's exactly why when Jesse talked about the webFi architecture and then when even Retardic from Ethereum also talk about the bank token it's actually talked about the Same thing. How can you put the people back to Web3? It's actually kind of correlated because why people look about all those because they are solving the issue for all the DAO. So right now when you have a DAO right potentially most of your user are actually robot so how can I solve that make sure that every one of them are human being. Because when you say oh, I'm doing just like as election, right? When I'm running an election, I don't want bunch of robots actually putting that ballot, right? I actually want real person. And then how can you make sure that it's a real person and then there's a lot of technology on it.

36:59

Same Lai

How can you keep track of a lot of information? What have you done before? Just like if you look at some people like a linking profile, it's very easy to tell that it's a real lengthy profile or kind of fake linking profile. Right. Because view linking profile, they actually have story, they have history, they have conveyance and there's a lot of thing to do. They can even see what kind of friends you have because if you have a very famous friend so that you are a good person too, right? If not, those people will not be friends of you. That's a lot of things and kind of put the humanity back to the internet and that actually exactly I think it's one of the powerful thing about Webb. It's a little bit romantic but that's actually one of the way I'm looking.

37:53

JP

Always since the beginning of time have been looking for ways to connect with whether it is the universe, earth around us and most importantly people.

38:04

Same Lai

Yeah, exactly. Then of course some other infrastructure kind of a stop I'm looking at, one of them is called software. They actually try to use BitTorrent technology. So everybody BitTorrents. Everybody can put in any device and start mining. Not just mining, right? Sticking to support all the defined project. I think it's just cool at the end. You don't need essential because they do the study, they do the mathematic, do the calculation. So somehow if people just utilize all the computer that's sitting on the desk, they're doing nothing or even all our old cell phone whatever, doing nothing if somehow all those device can pump back to the internet and then to provide the computing that the Web3 need. Right, so the cost is only less than 10% of AWS. Yeah. Because you thought that you centralized is more efficient. Right. But it's actually not decentralized more efficient.

39:12

Same Lai

But the problem is all the decentralized stuff are idle right now. Thank you for density. It's actually very funny but somehow when I read this I had to look at the kind of presentation and calculation I said oh, that actually give me excited too. That's something I never think of before. Go for it.

39:38

JP

Go for it. I was just about to say that is brilliant because that's exactly what Web3 is trying to do is just decentralize everything and if you can decentralize computing power once again, great fundamental point.

39:52

Same Lai

Yeah, and then I integrate a few kind of GameFi project too because I think gaming actually is going to be actually one of the biggest few coming up in next year or so. Allow Pay to Earn, Engage to Earn or Whatever to Earn. Because I think at the end when you want to attract more and more people to Web3, you also need someone tell the story. And gaming actually is one of the big kind of piece of product that can tell a good story and get people comfortable with the Web3 environment. Just have a wallet, I'm making token. I can transfer, buy and sell digital object, virtual object online on the metaverse and all those things. The project I'm incubating is called metaphor. They actually are very aggressive. So they are actually a team from Casta. Just a bunch of really kind of hardcore and very kind of enthusiasts about game programmer and they want to develop their own games and they're not just one game, right?

41:00

Same Lai

They want to use the Same IP, the Same character and develop a whole set of games and they have the whole tokenomic ecosystem working. Then people have a good time and also enjoy kind of the virtual economic system from there. I think for your audience, the most important thing of course, if any of you audience you won't invest in any of the company, of course reach out to me or you can reach out to them directly. And for people in audience, I think a lot of them are kind of aspiring founder then my two points of advice is when you put even pitching to me or pitching to any other investor is always try to make the product you try to build as simple as possible in terms of language. When I make a spaghetti, just say I want to make a spaghetti with chicken.

42:03

Same Lai

Don't try to say I want to create a dishes. That kind of revolutionalize like people culinary experience. When you say something like this I have no idea what it is and then I just food the trash can. When you say that I want to make a spaghetti with crypto on top, okay, that's reasonable. It's just simple because sometimes building a product is tough and then always try to simplify in terms of language. And when you reach out to your investor because the investor the first way you look at it is they need to understand what you try to build first. If even they have a hard time understanding and assume that the VC actually say your grandma if your grandma don't understand what you try to say, the VC won't understand it too. So they will never invest, right? The first thing you could make sure that they understand what you try to build because then they can really evaluate your problem because they actually meet a lot of they look at a lot of companies, they look at a lot of product every day.

43:13

Same Lai

They know what other people are building too, right? So they need to really perfectly understand what the product you try to build. So in order to you want to make your language as simple as possible. So once they understand what you try to build, then they will look at the team to see what is the track record of the team, the background of the team, right? Because that's actually one of the issue I think in Dubai, because you go back to Silicon Valley, right, then people all have connection, just like a lot of connection that people don't even know, right? Just like sometime maybe the Airbnb founder actually worked for some other famous internet company before, right? They have lineage. But if you don't have the lineage, right, then how can you prove it? Potentially you also need to have an MVP. That's why in some sense if you're a founder, you have a good idea and you have good background, good track record, you don't necessarily need the MVP before people invest with you.

44:17

Same Lai

But if you have a good idea but you don't believe that you have the track record yet. So try to build some MVP first. And the thing is, as I said, when you build MVP, don't try to overbuild, try to underbuild.

44:37

JP

It, right? You're bringing it out.

44:39

Same Lai

Yeah, you're showing it. But that's the whole point. You only are showing it. You don't need to spend years of engineering effort to do it. Just do something that kind of work and can show the investor and how it will look like. Then they can understand your product more and because when you're doing it, you also gain kind of credibility among the investor too. So don't just come to a VC with an idea and nothing else. Especially you have not kind of spectacular background but build something, try to build a website, build MVP, really simple MVP that we be not but at least have MVP then we can see and how we can incubate. That's usually how I work with project, just like as I said, right? The first project for market high, I can see that person already running a huge software consulting company that he can build any software that he wants, right?

45:39

Same Lai

Then I don't need even see the MVP or whatever, then we can talk about something else.

45:47

JP

That is so true. And it's also very good by Sam that you need to go with fundamentals and have your message very clear. And if a project is not doing that, then obviously they're shooting themselves in the foot more on what some of these projects are doing. What aren't they doing right? What are they doing wrong?

46:11

Same Lai

I think what they're doing right is after talk to me, right, they really focus on their product. But then because at the end you have a product and porter not just a piece of technology, it's what kind of thing you build that people will pay for it. And then also you can talk about pricing too, right? And the easiest way to kind of find that you can see you have potential competitors, especially some competitors doing really well. So, one of the company I work for, Hypermine, they actually create kind of a little bit different product on top of what the system that they have is actually helping people to do. Kind of the Web3 marketing promotion. Just like when you do air job, when you run a campaign, join my Discord, join my Twitter, all those things. They have a tool to automate so before, right, they don't even know they can build something like this.

47:12

Same Lai

It's just oh shit, I'm promoting my network but I actually need to do one marketing. And then they actually find a company called Cream. I think most of you know, right, they use Cream to do all the marketing campaign and then they actually think Cream sucks, okay, because I have the digital identity kind of foundation, I can build that too. Very easy. I just feel it's very similar to but totally compatible. Boom. And then suddenly they have a lot of customers. All the advertising agency are using that too. Right? The thing is, okay, I have that too, but they also have a difficulty on how to price it and kind of charge customer for it. So actually they look back to Cream and potential other company to see how they can charge people on that. And once you actually have the revenue model, then the VC, you all love you because then you are speaking their language.

48:13

Same Lai

That's the thing. Right? But then the thing that they really did wrong is a lot of them didn't focus on marketing from the beginning. And marketing, I said is also a systematic approach to marketing too. Like not just giving some press release, not some holding event or group. It's how can you identify customer and talk to your customer and actually do focus group with the customer? When I'm building a product for all the 3D creator, okay, first of all is how can I get a group of 3D creator in my community first? And then the second thing is, okay, once all those people are in my community, can I leverage them to actually help to improve my product, to really narrow down the product market. And once you kind of go even you are doing that process and you can even show to DVC that you're doing that process, you way ahead of 99% of the project.

49:18

Same Lai

But still most 99% of the project never done that. I think most of the people did your boss. That's why I think you alone fan, right? Because you actually have access to a lot of potential user for a lot of different program. A lot of projects should reach out to you right now, even you're not doing anything. You're not officially launched a product. Do something, right? Potentially they can some collaboration you guys can do and do this kind of thing too, right

49:50

JP

Exactly, you just have to keep moving forward no matter what tries to slow you down.

49:57

Same Lai

Also, one more thing I think a lot of projects make the mistake is they too focus on VC. They spend too much effort to try to make something that the VC light, but at the end they're totally the other way around. You should spend all the time to make something that for your customer. Once you get that working, then the VC will just come automatically.

50:19

JP

Yeah, if you build it, they will come. Exactly.

50:24

Same Lai

Solve someone else's problem. Not just building it, people will come. It's when you solve people's problem, then people will come.

50:36

JP

At this time, Sam, I'm going to ask the audience to get ready with questions that they may want to ask you. Audience those of you that are listening in, by all means, please give us a reaction. You can raise your hand if you want to ask a question. You can tweet that in to Sam directly at MetaIncubator or you can even tweet that onto AdLunam, Inc. And we will take your question and share it on the show right now. So give us a reaction in the meantime, but also send in your question. Raise a hand if you want to ask a question to our guest today, the co founder of MetaIncubator. Sam Lai. You've heard so much and Sam, it's so much of learning and I'm really glad to have you on the show sharing these insights. Okay, it looks like we are getting questions coming in.

51:35

JP

Let me just see. Right. Okay, so I have a question in. I can't see who the person is, but the question is what can Web3 learn from traditional businesses? Sam.

51:56

Same Lai

That's why I go back. Right. Traditional business while they are still existing as of today, it means they are solving someone else problem. But then the only question for Web3 is how can you actually use Web3 technology to disrupt the conventional business? You can do something better. That's why people go to you that's exactly go back to the banking and the insurance kind of example, right. Banking and insurance already serve people really well. But then for Web3, maybe potentially we can do it even better and more fine grain, more community level base and more human base rather than just a system with some kind of operator like bank teller between you and the service. Right. That's actually what technology is trying to make things better. But you need to learn from the conventional business is actually what kind of people are they helping and can you do the job better?

53:04

Same Lai

That's actually one thing I think a lot of startups should look at because you got to think about is that most of the thing that we have managed already invented, but then with new technology, can we do the Same thing with a much better way of much higher efficiency and productivity?

53:25

JP

Okay. So yeah.

53:27

JP

They should explore a lot more of what's happening in Web3. I agree with that. There's already transitions that are happening in the reality space, in education. Hey, we even had a guest on the show who was doing ads, paid ads in the metaverse. So yeah, there is so much of transition that can happen.

53:51

Same Lai

Yeah.

53:54

JP

Okay, Sam here. So my last question for you today, because we're almost out of time, but I'm certain that this is a gem. That is your personal philosophy that I'd like you to share with the audience. So you've accomplished so many things in the brief time that you've walked this planet, right? What's your secret, Sam? What's your secret to finishing your day strong?

54:22

Same Lai

I always finish my day is kind of looking at some macroeconomics news. First of all, I'm a trader trading crypto, and sometimes crypto are also affected, correlated with the traditional stock market too. Right. So that's why I like to look at the macro level economic news, because at the end, I always it's a belief of history. Sometimes even our technology improve a lot. Our human nature haven't improved a lot. So you can learn from there. And actually keep me refreshing too. Because sometimes when I see a problem, when I'm dealing with something, when I actually watching what happened in the world, like go boldly in a higher level, then I actually see that, hey, maybe this is just the Same. Problem that people before in other part of the country other part of the planet dealing with the Same time too. That actually just abnormal.

55:21

Same Lai

Then I just then we take the issue with kind of a normal emotion and try to just drop it. It give me energy back. And then one thing actually, then when I eventually right before I really want to shut down, then I actually just want to listen to some classical music. I think in a lot of kind of interview, I told everybody my most favorite piece of music is GoPro variation from Bach. Kind of curious, why didn't a lot of people actually know this piece of music?

56:00

JP

Well, I'm glad you shared that with us, and I'm certain I'd love to have you "bach". Yeah, that was a terrible joke.

56:14

Same Lai

No, it's a good joke. It's just a network of issue. Good save.

56:22

JP

Thank you, Sam. Appreciate it.

56:24

Same Lai

Yeah. If anyone have problems, feel free to reach out to me anytime.

56:31

JP

Yeah, most certainly will. And once again, on that note to the audience, if at any point of time you are in Dubai or you want to reach out to Sam for an idea or a project that you are thinking of having incubated, reach out to Sam at MetaIncubator. His twitter handles here.

56:52

Same Lai

56:58

JP

Yes, exactly. Whenever you're in Dubai, please stay back for the weekend and attend that. Like I said, it's a room that's filled with pure energy, fantastic people, and valuable insights on crypto.

57:14

Same Lai

Okay.

57:16

JP

So Sam, once again, for the last time, thank you so much for being on the show. Really appreciate you making the time to be here and spending some time on Diving Into Crypto.

57:25

Same Lai

Yeah, thank you for inviting me too. Okay, bye.

57:29

JP

It's been a blast. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you once again for being on the show today. Remember, we're here the Same time, Same place on Diving Into Crypto. We also have our show on Twitter Spaces, which is on Tuesdays at the Same time called The Future of NFTs, where our co-founder Nadja Bester hosts. The show focused on NFTs, so if you are a project or an artist.

57:54

JP

Reach out to us at AdLunam, Inc. Thank you so much once again. This is JP from AdLunam, Inc, speaking to you about Web3 cheers.