In this special episode, Trisha and returning guest Ned Legaspi — cultural intelligence consultant, CQ Fellow, and author of Culturally Intelligent Storytelling for Southeast Asian Creators — put the Bamboo Framework to work by analyzing a film together. The movie? The Thai sensation How to Make Millions Before Grandma Dies.

What makes a story travel across borders without losing its cultural soul? Why did a quietly paced, deeply collectivist Thai film move audiences to tears from the Philippines to Indonesia — while barely registering in the US? Trisha and Ned unpack the cultural dimensions woven through the film — from collectivism and power distance to indirect communication and the Thai concept of Bun Khun — exploring why emotional truth is universal, but its expression is always culturally specific.

Connect with Ned at nedlegaspi.com and on LinkedIn. His book, Culturally Intelligent Storytelling for Southeast Asian Creators, is available globally on Amazon, Apple Books, and Google Books.

Join Trisha in this journey of growth and discovery throughout the year via Substack or LinkedIn.

Trisha is running a webinar with the Australian Psychological Society on Cultural Intelligence and Social Cohesion — open to psychologists, therapists, and coaches. Link: psychology.org.au/event/25795

Referenced in This Episode: Global Dexterity by Andy Molinsky (recommended by David Livermore) Episode 70 — Ned Legaspi and the Bamboo Framework (Part 1) Episode 71 — Trisha reflects on culturally intelligent storytelling

[00:00:39] Hi everybody. Welcome back to the Shift. I'm Trisha Carter, an organizational psychologist and an explorer of cultural intelligence I'm on a quest to discover what enables us to see things from different perspectives and why sometimes it's easier than others to experience the moments of awareness, the shifts in our thinking as we see different cultural perspectives . Cultural intelligence for those who don't know, sometimes referred to as CQ is made up of four capabilities. There's the motivational side, CQ drive. The cognitive side, CQ knowledge, the metacognitive, which is referred to as CQ strategy and the behavioral, which is CQ action. In this podcast, we focus quite a lot on the metacognitive aspect, thinking about our thinking, That CQ Strategy. If you listen to our last couple of episodes, you'll know that in episode 70 I had the pleasure of speaking with  Ned Legaspi, cultural intelligence consultant, CQ fellow, and author of Culturally Intelligent Storytelling for Southeast Asian Creators. Now Ned developed the Bamboo framework, which is a culturally intelligent approach to storytelling that helps creators craft narratives that resonate across cultures. In our last conversation that was episode 70 we explored the framework itself. Story root,, story craft, story pulse, story leaf. In episode 71, I reflected by myself, not with Ned, on why it's so important that those of us who value culture, who value different cultures, who value diversity, that we learn to tell stories in ways that demonstrate that value. So I've asked Ned to come back and help us learn more about culturally intelligent storytelling by analyzing a movie together. So welcome back Ned.

[00:03:04] Trisha: I can see that from from the data that I get. And it is very exciting to see all of those people from the Philippines who are listening in. Welcome everybody, and it's great to have you with us. I have a bit of a confession to make today. I'm not really a movie buff. I mean like this is Ned's life people, this is his career, his background, and maybe he'll tell a little bit more about that when he talks about his, his shift moment. But I realized as I was reading his book that I watch movies and I'm not very culturally intelligent. When I watch movies, I just sit down and switch off and watch a movie. And then I realized as I started. Looking through the lens that Ned had given me through his book. After I'd got a hold of it, I realized that I was actually quite biased in my movie watching, and that at times I could, I would sometimes leave a movie because I didn't like some aspect of it from a cultural perspective. And we'll unpack some of those aspects today. And so you can see perhaps, what I might have become aware of, but honestly, before Ned's book, I had not done that metacognitive moment of thinking about what I was watching and how I liked it, and seeing the impact that it was having on me. So I'm not a very good person to be doing this with you, Ned, because I'm,

[00:04:42] Trisha: I consume it, yes, but perhaps not a bit mindlessly. So, yeah, that's, it was an interesting thing to become aware of.

[00:05:05] Trisha: I think the thing about cultural intelligence is we can always grow and develop it. And I think since reading your book, that is what I've been doing more of and being very aware of myself doing it. So that is one of the gifts that your book gives to people who aren't necessarily storytellers, but helps 'em to see what they're doing.

[00:05:34] and, looking at films from a cultural intelligence lenses is one way to exercise your cultural

[00:05:44] Trisha: Yeah.

[00:05:47] rolling.

[00:05:58] one?

[00:06:31] Everything is just so descriptive. Know I need a prescriptive approach because my goal is to, come up with a framework and then

[00:06:44] people write stories that can showcase their culture and can also speak to other people.

[00:06:53] behind what you were doing.

[00:07:03] If you want your content, your stories to go to resonate across cultures, somehow there must be intentionality also.

[00:07:18] but how do we become intentional?

[00:07:54] because Yeah. Why is a title like that?

[00:08:05] Ned: TikTok, I saw Filipinos filming themselves, entering the cinema you know, filming themselves using their mobile phone. And then midway they showed them their faces crying. And then towards the end, a lot of crying and I thought, oh my God, this Gen Z. This generation, they are not afraid to, you know showcase their emotions, crying because, well, in my generation we don't show, when we cry because of a touching scene in a movie, we kinda hide

[00:08:50] That I'm crying and look at me, I'm full of tears. And so that intrigued me and I said, oh, I might as well watch this movie without me knowing that while watching it.

[00:09:13] too?

[00:09:18] Ned: I did, but I never uploaded it on TikTok because I don't have the, the guts to do it, unlike the young people. But this is the one that's interesting. Trisha, I search TikTok.

[00:09:46] It's in Indonesia. And the movie shows a lot of spirituality, religiosity of Buddhism.

[00:09:56] There, there are so many scenes where Amah, the grandma, and then M they offer food at the Yeah. But it, made me ask, oh, so religion is not a barrier anymore to, Muslims like them because they cried and just like the Filipino who filmed themselves and showed it on TikTok.

[00:10:50] Could you give me list of countries where this movie resonated and it gave, of course Thailand, uh, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, Philippines, Myanmar, China. And then like what I said in the last episode, that was the aha moment because we are all, as CQ fellows, we are all trained and we all, we are all experts on the cultural dimensions.

[00:11:20] collectivists, all of these, they, in terms of power, distance, high particulars,

[00:11:27] Ned: they are in direct culture. Oh, sorry. What I'm trying to say is I began to see pattern

[00:11:38] Trisha: emerged.

[00:11:43] of the story and unearth what is beneath the surface, meaning to say what's the cultural DNA or logic of the story identifying or naming the cultural dimensions.

[00:12:00] clusters, it'll show you that a story would most likely resonate with clusters that have the same

[00:12:11] and it matched.

[00:12:37] And perhaps I should also say I cried too. Sadly, I was on an airplane. I think, you know, when you watch, so Qantas was showing it Qantas is the airline of Australia. Yeah. So it was showing it as a movie. And I think when you, I always think when you're in an airplane, it's a liminal space, you know, so you are more emotional often about movies.

[00:13:29] Ned: The

[00:13:33] Ned: Yeah. But

[00:13:33] grandson,

[00:13:37] Trisha: Sew is the mother.

[00:13:40] Trisha: Kiang forgive me Thai listeners who may recognize that I'm mispronouncing these names terribly. And then the other brother whose name I have forgotten 'cause I didn't like the

[00:13:51] one.

[00:13:53] Trisha: who had a gambling problem.

[00:13:55] And yes. Sorry everyone, we are giving away spoilers, so we are sorry if you haven't watched it

[00:14:03] it and

[00:14:04] back to us.

[00:14:19] And one of the most commonly referenced cultural dimensions is the difference between individualist societies and collective

[00:14:30] Ned: That dimension

[00:14:31] Trisha: yeah, so who do I see myself as? Do I see myself as an individual or do I primarily see

[00:14:41] Ned: And that makes this discussion very interesting because the two of us come from different location in that spectrum.

[00:15:03] Is that correct?

[00:15:56] And if you're from an individualist society, you might be with me and you might've been asking him. Was that a wise thing to do? So. That I definitely at that point, um, was very individualist and probably since then, as I have known more people and I've seen collectivism, play out in people's lives, I've valued it and can, you know, share some of that.

[00:16:31] Ned: Well, definitely the family unit is central in the movie.

[00:16:44] Yeah. So yeah, this is a very a classic example of a collectivist movie because what is important is, you know, not the individual, but the collective or the group harmony, in this case, the family of Amah.

[00:17:17] Analysis. No, Let ask you, Trisha, in. Anglo cultures, how is power I mean what is the relation in terms of old people, elders?

[00:17:32] Trisha: I think that. If there are elders in a family, then probably love would where there is love, then there's probably some respect, but there's also probably teasing. And so that that person is somebody who can be disagreed with.

[00:17:51] Trisha: Yeah.

[00:18:11] Yeah.

[00:18:18] We revere our elders. As a matter of fact, it's very difficult for us, unimaginable, even to some families to bring their elders to home care. So it's not uncommon for Filipino families or Southeast Asians to take good care of their elders at home, even to the point of somebody sacrificing normally it's the it's the youngest, it's most, especially the woman.

[00:18:53] So, and we see that in the movie the middle child, the mother she is the dutiful daughter, you know, taking care because there is the later on after I watched the movie, I did some research. Thailand as a cultural, this is more nuance of power, distance, and collectivism in particular is Trisha. They have a cultural concept of, Bun Khun I'm not sure if I pronounce it correctly,

[00:19:38] that when somebody, you know takes care or took care of you in a way, you have to take care of that person.

[00:20:09] It wasn't alien. So even if there were nuances, we were prepared to hear that kind of we are culturally prepared to hear that kind of story. And I, I, I will give you some data. Trisha, I tried to look at the figures on how this movie performed in the us which is an individualist culture. Well, I may be wrong in, I may be because in my assumption, but.

[00:20:48] And my theory there is that I think the movie is too collectivist and to high power distance for an individualist and a low power distance society, such as the USA. Because even among the, our fellow CQ fellows during our November retreat last year, I asked them and some of them, ah, what's that movie? So, it didn't, even reach them.

[00:21:18] in in Asia.

[00:21:23] Ned: Oh, but I did the research on that. The success of that movie in Australia partly due to Southeast Asia diaspora,

[00:21:37] Trisha: Yeah. Yeah. No.

[00:21:43] sense?

[00:21:51] is one of those moments where my bias comes out. So there were times where, people were, so I'm thinking of when people were speaking to the son, whose name we can't remember, who was the gambler.

[00:22:22] Or something like that. And a part of me was going Just say it.

[00:22:26] say it. Come on, say it out loud to

[00:22:34] Trisha: That's right. So I was wanting the direct communication to take place that didn't take place and the same in those moments, but they were actually very beautiful where M and Amah

[00:23:04] But there were definite moments where the indirect communication things that weren't said aloud, but were obviously communicated. But I wanted them to be said aloud.

[00:23:21] dimension. But I'm just curious, Trisha, because in that movie, grief and Love, they are, and felt in glances and

[00:23:37] Trisha: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Even right at the start in the initial opening Ching Ming scene where they were cleaning the graves and the grandmother was saying what she wanted and you could see the daughter wanting to be able to give her mother, but feeling like she couldn't, and you know that there was already then this sense of.

[00:24:03] to, to,

[00:24:26] So it was people's different ways of facing up to That

[00:24:33] Ned: yes. Yeah. But in in Anglo cultures, do you need to say, I love you if you want to, express that love for another person.

[00:24:57] so I can appreciate the unspoken, but demonstrated love

[00:25:04] Ned: Yeah, because in the movie, of course, it was subtitled and well, right now there are dubbed versions in English, but I never heard the line. I love you in. In the movie, but I felt it, if you remember, there was a scene that Amah was talking about the fruit, and then he, he picked one a fruit and then he, she was peeling it off. That's love.

[00:25:32] That's your way of saying, I love you, grandson. In our culture, we don't really have to verbalize or say it, but we say it indirectly. Through just what I said, gestures, actions. But you know, in our culture we already know, oh, my grandma loves me because he did it or she did that.

[00:25:57] So my

[00:26:05] So,

[00:26:45] Um, the the grandmother's congee business, nobody explained all of that. Yeah. So it was like. There were things that were just very Thai and they just were there and they stayed there, and that, that was wonderful.

[00:27:01] Ned: I think in my, in the book where I analyze other. Content? No. They, they share three common qualities. One is the universality or of emotions and themes. They share humanity.

[00:27:35] but it resonated.

[00:27:37] Ned: Yeah, it resonated. One of the cultural value dimensions is time. And I am curious, Trisha, how did you when, how was the pacing of the movie to you? Because it was very I would say polychronic. It wasn't rushing,

[00:28:07] This one is really more present. It actually, the film's rhythm actually reflects our being orientation.

[00:28:19] Ned: You know, silence is honored. That silence is allowed to speak. There are many scenes that it was so silent

[00:28:34] But to us it's, wow we know the emotion there

[00:28:40] I think in terms of time, if it had been on another topic, it might have. It might have frustrated me because sometimes when a movie is slow, it is one of those reasons where I said, I have noticed my bias, but this was about dying

[00:29:04] So, I've sat with them and yeah, so it. I guess because of the universality of that experience,

[00:29:19] difference for me.

[00:29:38] And then there are many things like the concept of saving face.

[00:29:55] but what else?

[00:29:57] Trisha: The.

[00:30:02] Ned: The, yeah. Or slippers. Yeah,

[00:30:09] culture. So you see I think. People now are very open to learning. I mean, understanding other cultures. And I think that is what makes it successful also, because it was so authentic.

[00:30:29] themselves. I think the paradox of of this movie and of also the framework is that the only way to be universal is to be culturally specific. It's a paradox. Right.

[00:31:15] it's the same thing.

[00:31:25] The problem child, I'm not gonna say that any of my brothers are like that, but you know, we all have this element in and in families where there is somebody maybe who has a problem. And then, yeah. I think I I, feel like everybody watching it would have been angry or disappointed when Arma went to her brother. So it would've been, it would've been M's great uncle and asked for help because she wanted to buy a burial plot,

[00:32:07] Ned: Oh, that's so yeah.

[00:32:31] And then the ultimate is M's character development and

[00:32:36] Trisha: And you know how initially he was a very annoying

[00:32:43] Trisha: Yeah, yeah, Yeah, Teenager and then basically became this lovely young man.

[00:32:53] Ned: So what I'm getting from what you're saying, Trisha, is that the emotional truth is global,

[00:33:10] Trisha: Yes. Yes.

[00:33:22] and then the yeah, but we feel it.

[00:33:37] Yeah.

[00:33:44] movie?

[00:33:57] I think it was cultural alignment.

[00:34:06] Trisha: Yeah.

[00:34:15] I think that's my takeaway from this movie.

[00:34:20] Trisha: So mine is so much more simple and it's that, a grandma's love can

[00:34:55] that is is the feeling that stayed with me from the end. Yeah.

[00:35:00] Trisha: Well, Ned, thank you. I hope

[00:35:20] We are going to watch the Drover's Wife, so we'll put a link to the movie and I'm sorry we can't show you where you can see it all around the world. It is an Australian movie. And so we'd ask you to watch it and then we will discuss it, we will unpack it through the Bamboo framework as we have done this

[00:35:43] Yeah.

[00:35:45] Trisha: And I have a special. Notification for you all. Dear listeners, I have a copy of Ned's book that I'm going to give away, and so if you are interested in getting a hold of Ned's book, what we would ask you to do is to write on LinkedIn or Facebook if you're a Facebook person. and tag. Ned and tag my me, Trisha Carter and just write something about what you have learned about storytelling from these episodes. And after the next episode, we will we'll have a look and we will decide who we are going to award the book to. So thank you for listening with us. And also just a notification for those of you who might be interested. I am running a webinar in the week ahead with the Australian Psychological Society, and it's going to be looking at cultural intelligence and social cohesion. So if you're a psychologist or a therapist or a coach I will put the link to that in the show notes. So that you can join up with us and come to that discussion as well. So thank you everyone for being on this journey with Ned and I, and we look forward to having another discussion with you.

[00:37:19]