We all hope that cancer never touches our lives, but if it does, we hope we will be on the list of resilient survivors. My guest for today’s episode, “The Someday is Now,” is Bonnie Katz Sailors. She is a 51 year-old, three-time cancer survivor who was at the height of her fitness game as the owner and operator of a personal training business in Seattle when the universe presented her with the cancer challenge which she met head on. Because she is an amazingly strong woman, she used this pivotal moment in her life to change direction and pursue her art once again—this time not as a career path as she had done coming out of art school, but for her own enjoyment and healing.

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[00:00:34] Lorna: Without further ado, let's dig in together and figure out ways to resist societal expectations while re-imagining a world where mature women are made visible and empowered to become their own passion projects. Let's do this.

[00:01:18] Lorna: She recently sold her personal training business and is retiring from helping others on their fitness journeys. She is an amazingly strong woman who believes her greatest accomplishment to date is surviving and thriving after having breast cancer three times. Now with a clean bill of health, she is ready to live life to the fullest and embrace her true passions as an artist, photographer, and traveler.

[00:01:48] Bonnie: Thank you, Lorna. This is so awesome. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it so much.

[00:02:01] Bonnie: Yahoo. Yeah. Since college. Mm-hmm.

[00:02:24] Bonnie: Well, you know, growing up. I grew up in a family full of readers and math people, and I was so not like

that. And so I grew up kind of thinking, you know, I like to paint, I like to draw, I like to be artistic. I'm just not cut out for regular school basically. And, uh, this is what I have to do because this is what I know.

[00:03:13] Lorna: So who inspired you? It sounded like you had some support, even though your family had maybe other ambitions for themselves.

[00:03:48] Bonnie: After that, you know, there was a real traditional. People out there, um, you know, that you would see at the museum or I was interested in Salvador Dali his stuff was fascinating. Kind of the surreal part of, you know, art. And then a lot of it I just didn't understand.

[00:04:13] Lorna: Conceptual stuff wasn't really something that they focused on necessarily. I felt like at Cornish when we were there too, it, it seemed like the program was geared more to traditional learning your medium and looking at the classical arts and trying to do the figure drawing and stuff.

[00:04:55] Bonnie: You work all year, and then the, at the end you do a big show and there was so much pressure. I won the merit award in my fourth year to, to go do my fifth year. So there was all this pressure on me to, to do well, and I honestly didn't know how to handle that. Like, one thing that was missing I felt like was, the artistic process. Like what artists go through in their studio and all the things they say. Well, all the stuff I was saying to myself and like, how was, you know, I was not being as productive and I wasn't, I was really hard on myself in my last year. So, and trying to like live up to whatever I won in the fourth year and trying to, you know, replicate it in the fifth year and it was just a lot of pressure.

[00:06:08] Bonnie: No thought, no creativity whatsoever. It was

[00:06:14] Bonnie: This is what you do. Go here, do this. And that was quite, that was a relief for me, at the time. And, uh, I really appreciated that. It was definitely different.

[00:06:53] Lorna: I remember for myself, like I would kind of forget about my body and physical stuff. I mean, maybe I would, just because I couldn't afford to have a car or anything. I'd be, you know, cycling, to school and back to my apartment and stuff like that and to work. But aside from that, I mean, it's really, people talk about how sitting in front of the computer is taxing doing art and putting yourself in a position where you are holding your, you know, your pen or your brush a certain way for extended periods of time and just focused on just that visual and your, maybe your hand is moving, but that's, it is, is really challenging. So I can see how it might have been refreshing to actually use more of your body.

[00:08:00] Bonnie: Anyway, so I applied to one school. I did not get in. I didn't apply anywhere else cuz I really didn't wanna move. I was living in Seattle and I didn't wanna move away from my friends and family. I didn't wanna go to the UDuB or anything. I don't know if they had masters in art. I met a, a woman who is a personal trainer and I decided, uh, I said, wow, that's really, that's cool.

[00:08:46] Bonnie: So that's what I did and that was great. I wound up, uh, getting a job right away. It was kind of an internship at the University of Washington Diabetes Prevention Program. I was a personal trainer on the program there. I got introduced immediately to the clinical side of fitness and how diet and exercise can help prevent or delay the onset of type two diabetes.

[00:09:52] Bonnie: And it was super awesome. So I did that for another several years and then the same person went and opened up his own gym or a personal training studio, and I kind of followed him along, you know, and I wound up opening my own personal training studio after a while. And that was the one I just sold.

[00:10:50] Lorna: It's just amazing how life gives you these detours. Well, sometimes they're handed to you and sometimes you create them, and this is a situation where you said, I'm gonna go to college for this now. I did the art thing. That was great at the time. Now I'm gonna transition, pivot, go over here, and focus on learning this new skill.

[00:11:17] Bonnie: Yeah, and it's, yeah, and there's these definite periods where you're like, okay, I'm done with that now and I wanna do something else. And I do follow that. I've, I've listened to that. I follow that. I kind of try and go where the energy is, uh, of what I'm, and it could be unexplainable, like, why do I wanna do that so much like,

[00:12:04] Lorna: And you know, some people do that. Life just throws curve balls and uh, and you do have to follow the energy. Different careers are good for you in different times of your life when you're growing. What I've seen is people are just like flexible. You have to kind of like bend, like a reed in the wind, and listen to your heart and your soul. Honestly, like I don't really even know that many people that came out of college doing the same thing that they went there for. I mean, I know that that was like the traditional way of doing things, but nowadays I feel like she knows I didn't do that. Uh, my husband didn't do that. He went to school at Cornish too for fine art and he came out after several years, being a technical director. So like, but it's, you know, no matter what you go to school for, you always, it's like a foundation for you to learn so many skills, I think.

[00:13:24] Bonnie: One thing I wanted to do when I was running my business, was create a business where I didn't have to be part of it. Where I could just be the owner and it could just run without me. And I did that because I kind of was at a seminar and this guy was talking about that, about doing something like that with his business, and cuz he wound up having a health crisis and, you know, needed money but he was so glad he had this business that could help pay for things when he wasn't available. So I was like, wow, I, that's a great idea. You know, like, hmm, may I try and do that with this my business? And, so I did that. I wasn't a trainer in my business, only sometimes.

[00:14:39] Lorna: What did that look like in your life when you learned the first time that you had breast cancer and you were working in your job in fitness and...

[00:15:17] Bonnie: Like, are we really doing this? And and he's, he stuck around, but. , it was, you know, quite a, you know, I had a client who was going through it at the same time and she was just real loud about it and, you know, told me about every appointment and told me about all this stuff and the chemo and, and it really, I so appreciate her because, it got me to look at my body and look at what was going on. I had a little divot that I was odd, and I thought, oh, and then I looked checked and there was a lump there, and I decided that, oh, I better get this checked out, and I probably wouldn't have if she had not been talking about it this whole time. Turns out I had it too, and I was 37 healthy. People couldn't believe it.

[00:16:12] Lorna: I think that, you know, there's a lot of stigma around any kind of cancer in general where people think that, oh, if you get cancer you must be doing something wrong with your health. You, you know, oh, it's because you aren't eating healthy, or you're in an environment, you know, you're stuck in an environment where you're not doing healthy things or you're smoking and stuff like that.

[00:16:38] Bonnie: I mean, I did think, wow, it could have been trauma, it could have been stress. You know, I'm running a business that's, I went through a lot of stuff in my twenties and just, you know, it could have been that, but I have to say nine years later, I got it a second time and I was having the time of my life, so it, it was a different cancer.

[00:17:27] Bonnie: So

[00:17:40] Bonnie: happened to me. and, I still don't know why. Uh, I mean, I, the theory is I have a gene that is replicating or replicated and it's genetic for me. They, I took all the gene tests and I don't have any of them that they know about, but I probably have ones that they haven't discovered yet. So that's what I believe.

[00:18:14] Lorna: Yep.

[00:18:21] Lorna: And so you ended up getting a mastectomy after the third discovery?

[00:18:46] Bonnie: They're like, this is super rare, you know, to get it. Twice, the same person like this. And I was like, wow. Yeah, that's just weird. Um, but it was on the other side and I knew what I'd be in for with a lumpectomy and radiation. So I said, okay, I'll do that treatment again on the other side. And my doctor supported me.

[00:19:18] Lorna: right.

[00:19:42] Bonnie: Um, I had a double mastectomy. I had, I didn't have reconstruction because I had a lot of just, just reading about it and researching and things like that. It was just not beneficial for me. Um, after the second time, I had lymphedema on my arms, so that's a problem for surgery and things like. Finally I, yeah, I got the mastectomy.

[00:20:23] Lorna: Oh, is it controversial just in like the medical field or is it controversial with other women or men, or what are your experiences with knowing other people who have had mastectomies?

[00:20:58] Bonnie: My surgeon is a total pro at it, so, but it's a certain kind of surgery. Sometimes they bring cosmetic surgeons in to do it, but it's a, basically makes you look like a 10 year. Self again, you know, like nothing. Nothing. And it's flat. It's very liberating. I'm on, you know, there's Facebook groups out there.

[00:21:39] Bonnie: To me, what, and this is such a personal decision too, let's say I've been in my twenties or thirties, I probably would've done the reconstruction, but I'm in my fifties and I'm happy with what I

[00:21:51] Lorna: Did you have any kind of a, like a mourning that you went through with that loss? Because, there's so much pressure in our society I mean, you got it through hearing from the doctors. Are you sure you don't wanna have reconstructive surgery and like breasts are so important for being a woman and... what were your thoughts that were around that? Was it difficult? Was it painful or was it just liberating?

[00:22:28] Lorna: If that makes sense.

[00:22:42] Bonnie: You know, I wanted to understand what his thoughts were too. You know, obviously it's my decision, but yeah, I was aware that it affects him too. It affects everybody. You know, when I'm out in public, I just wear the fake one, you know, the fake inserts. Nobody, nobody even notices. Nobody cares, nobody.

[00:23:17] Lorna: So, she's showing me her breasts right now. Her, her inserts, and they're very perky,

[00:23:23] Lorna: They're good. They look good.

[00:23:27] Lorna: Totally

[00:23:28] Lorna: But your husband was accepting, it sounds like, I mean, in the conversation I had with you the other day.

[00:24:05] Bonnie: Like, that's not, it's not, it's not right for

[00:24:46] Lorna: So what are the mental tools that you use to fortify yourself when life gives you, not just lemons, but mul, moldy old burritos from the back of someone's fridge? Are you spiritual? Meditations? Things that you say to yourself to try to feel empowered.

[00:25:27] Lorna: A burrito, moldy burrito from the back of your fridge.

[00:25:57] Bonnie: I was like just devastated, heartbroken. Confused. Didn't understand I did everything right. Why is this happening? And then it turned out for the best because, you know, I had to run my business through covid. Two and a half years after that. Uh, I sold it to someone different. I got more money. I made more money during the pandemic

[00:26:45] Bonnie: And then I got it a third time. And so when you remove the breasts, Most likely not gonna come back ever. Um, so that to me, removed that feeling. But I had to have cancer a third time to actually remove them, to actually feel better now. So I, I just think these bad things happen, but so many good things come out of it, which is, but if you have to wait and believe.

[00:27:41] Lorna: She had been a phlebotomist and she decided to go back to school when she turned 50 for art. She's like, I am. That's great. I've done this. It was a good way to support myself. Now I'm 50 and she's like, so I just said to myself when I'm 50, it's kind of like this year where there's a fork in the road, you turn 50 and you can decide if you are gonna continue doing what you have been doing that's maybe stable. You're, you know, in this particular marriage, you've done things a certain way in the marriage. You've done things with your career. You could continue doing that until you retire or die, whatever. Or you can make this choice to kind of like reflect back on, what your life has been like, and shake it up.

[00:29:01] Lorna: And it's just so interesting to be talking with you where you are at the pivotal time of your life. You know? It's so true. And you are like, yes, I could continue to do the fitness stuff. This cancer happened to me and I'm choosing to drop that whole life that I was doing for the past 20-something years, and now I'm gonna like go back to this creative space that I had to abandon years ago because of the pressure.

[00:29:47] Bonnie: And yes, it took a lot of work to get here. Uh, but I always, like I said, I knew it was gonna come back around. I didn't know it was gonna be this kind of journey. But, uh, I'm just so glad to be here... I'm painting every day. We're traveling. Taking photos and I'm just a much more mature person, although I think of art school often, you know, cuz that's picking up where I left off.

[00:30:40] Lorna: The self-judgment.

[00:30:59] Lorna: Someday is now.

[00:31:04] Lorna: The someday is now. So make it happen. The things that you wanna do in your life now is the time.

[00:31:26] Lorna: I mean, obviously from just your talk with me today, I can tell what your badass qualities are, but what do you think that people would say about you? What do you think people believe makes you a badass? Do you feel like a badass?

[00:32:07] Bonnie: You just do it. And, that's what builds your strength. I mean. I ran my business through Covid, but I also ran my business through the 2008 recession, so that helped me. I didn't have a fear running it through Covid. So I had already built that muscle way back then. Having these hard experiences, I know it's so cliche, but that's what makes you stronger and then you have less fear cuz you're like, oh yeah, I've done that.

[00:32:51] Lorna: to catch your breath

[00:32:56] Lorna: So do you feel like you are your own passion project now?

[00:33:23] Bonnie: Um,

[00:33:45] Lorna: I mean, it could just be like health, like my passion, I am my passion project and my goal right now is to be healthy, is to be a healthy person. You know? Or like, yeah, to be healthy and I'm gonna make art and you know, but it's the turning the focus back on yourself. I think giving yourself permission to live your authentic self

[00:34:31] Bonnie: It's like the airplane thing, you have to help yourself before you can help anybody else. And I have to rest, repair, recover. My art is helping me, with recovery and with health. My health, it's just calming me down and putting me in a different state of mind and a different pace of life.

[00:35:12] Lorna: Yeah. I mean it, it can be fast for some people, but yeah, it's usually pretty slow. It's like the slow food.

[00:35:32] Lorna: What would you tell your young self if you could reach back in time, what would you tell your young self maybe back in college?

[00:35:59] Lorna: Yeah, I, I definitely remember that time. what's gonna happen? I need to like be doing all of the things to be on the right path for success and all the pressures that surrounded that, those ideas instead of just like living in the moment and appreciating where you are. Just being like happy for what you have.

[00:36:28] Bonnie: Yeah, totally.

[00:36:46] Bonnie: Yeah.

[00:37:29] Lorna: And I feel like so many people would benefit from being able to do that. I wish there was a time machine send us all back so we could just poke at our younger selves and be like, no, you got this. You're gonna be fine. Just like focus on

[00:37:46] Lorna: You are gonna be fine. It's all gonna work out. You're gonna be fine. Yeah. So why don't you share with, the audience and myself, what is going on? What, projects you're working on right now, do you have any shows lined up or is that even something that's on your radar?

[00:38:26] Bonnie: You know, there's, there's no doubt. Show deadline, there's no, this deadline, there's nothing. It's just. Paint, do whatever you want, paint whatever you

[00:38:40] Bonnie: It's a little bit of a sabbatical, um, right now. I think eventually I will get myself out there and I'm happy again with my website and I'm trying to do a show or submit somewhere.

[00:38:59] Lorna: I could totally see you doing that because what you paint are these beautiful Georgia O'Keefe-inspired landscapes that are just so stunning.

[00:39:11] Lorna: Well, I wish you all of the best with all of your endeavors and I wish you health and happiness, and I just wanna thank you so much for being my first guest on, uh, my new podcast, and it really was like an absolute pleasure and I can't wait to see any shows that you have coming up and artworks that you have. And if you have a website for your artwork,

[00:39:41] Lorna: Great.. Great. So now everyone knows where to see your lovely artwork. Thanks again, Bonnie and I, you know, you are awesome.

[00:39:55] Lorna: Thank you for listening to this episode of I Am My Passion Project. New episodes drop every Friday. If you enjoyed this content, please consider sharing with a friend or two or more, or leaving a review wherever you listen to podcasts. Until next time, I hope you're able to move through your week speaking your own truth and embracing your badass self.