If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed, anxious, or discouraged about the future, this conversation is for you. In this episode, Pastor Ken sits down with registered psychologist Joel Pukalo to talk about mental health. They explore common myths surrounding mental health in church circles, highlight the importance of community support, and remind us that God truly can turn every struggle into something good. Join us as we explore how God works through both prayer and professional help to bring hope and healing.

What You’ll Hear About:

1. Understanding mental health from a biblical perspective
2. Debunking the myth that “faith alone” or “therapy alone” can solve everything
3. Why community (the local church, friends, mentors) is critical on the journey
4. How to recognize cues that it’s time to seek professional help
5. Encouragement for anyone feeling hopeless or stuck

“Come to me, all who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.” – Matthew 11:28

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Looking for the transcript or resources to dive deeper into our conversation today? faith-for-real-life.captivate.fm

- All right.

Well, welcome back to the podcast

where we're starting a brand

new sermon series this month,

talking about, um, five elements of health

that God wants you to grow in.

So we're talking about

professional health,

financial health, physical

health, spiritual health,

and today we're talking

about mental health.

And so we have a guest, uh, Joel Polo,

who's registered psychologist say that.

Right. You got it. Okay. Awesome.

Which I've personally used

your services in the past Yeah.

You know, for, um, our family.

And so we're really happy to have you

with us today. So thanks for being here.

- Yeah. It's so good

to be here, man. Yeah.

Talk a little bit about your history,

- What you do.

- Sure. Well, man, when I was

growing up, I either wanted

to be a pastor, engineer, or teacher.

- Okay. So I

- Lived in all three realms.

I actually went to school first, uh,

did some bible college, uh, played soccer.

Yeah. I got a scholarship for that.

And then it ended up,

uh, pursuing teaching.

So that was my first degree.

I love working in schools.

My parents were both teachers. Yeah.

So I guess it kind of just

came naturally. Right.

And through that journey, I

was praying, okay, Lord, like

what is the next steps

in my life look like?

And I had a number of

conversations with people.

So if there's young people listening,

it's, it's a journey, right?

Yeah. Step by step.

And, and one thing I discerned

is I really am passionate

about helping people love teaching,

but really love, like

helping kids, helping,

uh, teenagers especially.

Yeah. So someone said, well,

you could be a counselor or psychologist.

I'm like, oh, cool, I'll check into that.

So after some research,

and, you know, a lot of

school Yeah. , I ended up

- And a weekend course, right?

Yeah. $500 later in a

weekend. Course . Yeah.

- Right. I end up on this

journey, uh, for the past 10 years

of being able to, um,

work in professional

practice in schools and,

and also, uh, support clients and families

- As well.

Yeah. Well, that's great. So

we're talking about mental

health, which is loaded, right.

That idea, especially I

would say particularly

within the realm of the church.

Right. There's some, um,

confusion about that.

And so just to maybe again,

set the table mm-hmm .

What are we talking about exactly when

we talk about mental health?

- Great question. I love even

to think about the term

wellness, you know?

So in terms of wellness, we

look at emotional, mental,

spiritual, uh, physical.

There's all these different

areas of course you guys

are covering, which is great.

And they all overlap. And especially

from a Christian perspective.

Uh, we have, uh, we're spiritual beings.

We have a soul and live in a body. Hmm.

So our soul, our mind will

and emotions is a really key aspect

of stewarding our mental health. So

- That's what we'll

talk about when we talk

about soul today.

And if we go into scripture,

the Bible will talk about soul.

And it's really that three,

those three things, our mind,

our will, our emotional.

So we're talking about

soul health. Mm-hmm .

Really today is what we're

talking about. Great. Okay.

There we go. Now we set the

table. Let's, so let's begin, .

So what are some, um,

maybe you would say common misconceptions

that people find around mental health?

And maybe if you can even

add from the church aspect

or the Christian aspect that

maybe some, some questions

that they have about it

or some misconceptions

or, um, areas

that there's just some

uncertainty regarding

for sure. Yeah. Mental health.

- Absolutely. You know, I love the church.

I've been to a lot of

different types of churches.

So through my personal

and professional experience, uh, you know,

I grew up actually Catholic.

So until I was about seven or eight years

old, attended Catholic church.

I've worked for Catholic school boards.

It's a beautiful tradition,

beautiful masses, beautiful songs.

I love to be a part of

that. I've also been in very

Pentecostal environments, so

kind of like the exact opposite

of that in many extremes.

And probably everything in between.

So the neat thing about

denominations in churches is we

each, I think, have a revelation

or understanding of God.

So there's different kind of,

I think, pitfalls or strengths

and challenges of each sphere.

You know, being a, a church, a part

of POCI think one thing

we often see in kind

of Pentecostal type

environments is the idea

of over spiritualizing.

Everything. For sure.

God is the most powerful

part of our lives,

and the Holy Spirit can come

and heal us, if any mental,

mental or physical disorders.

Um, but there's a journey.

And I love what one

pastor friend of mine said

that God heals and journeys

with us in many ways.

He uses counseling, he uses

prayer, he uses doctors,

he uses medications, he

uses inner healing, a lot

of the amazing ministries

that you guys have at your church here.

But it's a journey.

It's not just one thing.

It's a journey of many things.

And I think a key thing as

Christians is to be open to

how God wants to heal us journey with us

and bring restoration in different ways.

Right. One of my favorite

stories in the Bible

is that this guy name it Right.

And, uh, he's told, okay,

just go like bathe five or six times.

You probably say, I has

nobody exact reference.

And he's like, no, I don't wanna do that.

That's dumb. Yeah. And

- Sometimes, like my kids,

they never want a bath. Right.

- And sometimes Lord might be like, Hey,

you should go to your doctor.

Right. Check this out. Yeah.

Or maybe you should go to

this inner healing prayer

that might seem awkward

or uncomfortable for you.

But I think it's being open

to all the different ways

that God wants to heal and

journey with us. Yeah. That's

- A great idea.

So I know maybe two sides of the spectrum.

The most common ones that

I see is one who they

are repelled by medical professionals.

Right, right. Therapists

counts as a sign of weakness

and a sign of lack of faith

that if I have to succumb

to sitting under, you

know, the, the thumb of a,

of a psychiatrist or psychologist

or therapist, that somehow

I am a bad Christian.

Right. Right. I lack faith.

Right. God isn't working me.

Have you seen that? Absolutely. Okay.

So what would you say

to someone like that?

- Well, first I'd say,

I love his Bible verse

that God's power is made perfect.

Not in our strength, but

actually in our weakness.

And I'm praying to this year,

I love to pray each year

and say, okay, God, what are you focusing

on or highlighting this year?

And the scripture passages I go

after this year was Isaiah 61.

And the first part of the

passage talks about struggle.

It talks about bringing

comfort to those who mourn,

bringing garments of praise

for the spirit of heaviness,

the oil of joy again, for mourning.

And it talks about prisoners

as well, and being set free.

And the Lord spoke something

to me that's so important.

And the idea is, he said, if

you want to thrive in life,

you have to go through the process.

And the Jewish culture, they

actually really celebrate mourning.

Like when someone dies, they

have a whole, um, parade, so

to speak, and they hire even mourners.

So there's a process in which

we mourn things in our lives.

So it's very normalized in their culture.

Perhaps in all our culture,

it's not as normal.

So I think the idea that God

- Was Yeah.

People do not know how to mourn. Exactly.

It's like, I don't know how to, I want

to get outta this as fast as possible.

- Chi me out. Yeah, yeah. I know, right.

- The most awkward

conversations are at a funeral.

'cause no one knows what

to say. Yeah. Right.

- And just avoidance. Right.

Just avoiding all of that.

Right. But I feel like the

Lord wants to invite each one

of us into our own personal journey.

And just being totally

honest, like I am a person

who thought, oh, I'm good,

God, I don't need help.

But the truth is, we're all on a journey

and there's always more healing for us.

Mm-hmm . So whatever that

looks like, you know, I've been

to counseling, I've talked

to doctors, I've been

to inner healing prayer, and it's amazing

how the Lord uses all those things

to take us one step further

on that journey of healing.

And I, I see people in my personal life

and sometimes the different

professional settings

where I just pray, Lord,

would they be willing,

would they open their heart

to just as we talked about,

name him just as we

talked about Isaiah 61,

would they be open to the

journey God has for them

because he wants to heal,

he wants to bring freedom,

and he really wants to help us thrive

and becoming the full

expression of ourselves,

but we have to be open to that journey.

- Yeah. So maybe what I

hear you saying is that, uh,

seeking professional help

from, um, someone who knows

what they're talking about in

the mental health field is one

of the ways that God

can provide, um, health

to us in greater wellness in our, in our,

in our world, in our, in our soul.

But you wouldn't say it is

the only way. Absolutely.

There are other ways that God does that.

And so I would say as, as

one of your pastors, um,

I have visited, um, psychologists

and therapists in the past,

and they actually have a goal

for this year for how

many times I want to go.

I'm actually go, like, I

want to go see them. Amen.

Because I've seen the usefulness of, um,

how God uses people in that field

to bring greater health to my life.

Uh, and so, you know,

as one of your pastors,

there's freedom there to

just break that stigma.

That that's, that's just

a wonderful thing. Yeah.

But I've also seen in my own life

and through ministry, the

other side of that being

that God has worked outside

of medical professionals through prayer.

Absolutely. Like just praying for someone

and God just breaks someone's, you know,

emotional bondage or, or an addiction.

I've seen that happen mm-hmm

. Like with my own eyes.

And so I believe in the pa

and it's a lot cheaper

than seeing a psychology .

And so, you know, that's

always my first line

of defense when people are

walking through, I, I bring prayer.

So maybe that's the other, I

talked about those two. Yeah.

Two, um, you know, sides of

the horse that people fall off.

I'm never gonna see a doctor

because that's a lack of faith,

or all I need is faith

and all I need is prayer,

and I'm never gonna go

see someone like that.

So, you know, maybe could

you speak to that at all?

- Oh, absolutely. You know,

I love what one pastor said,

Jesus has the one step program.

It's really simple about 12 steps.

It's not a thousand

steps. He wants to heal,

and there's always healing available.

I think a really interesting

aspect, you know, I've been

to inner healing, prayer,

I've got prayed for,

and it's just been life changing.

I think those are the, the moments

of the most quantum change

and the most powerful change.

But I believe healing's a journey,

and the Lord brings people into

our lives, pastors, friends,

mentors, counselors,

leadership consultants,

whoever it might be to help

us walk that journey out.

- Yeah. Galatians six

two, I think, is that, um,

I think the reference is correct.

He gives us one another to

carry one another's burden.

Exactly. That's the idea there.

- And the idea of, of mentorship

and walking with people, I

think is so, so important.

Um, because God can heal any moment.

And I love being in

that, those environments

where I've seen miracles

break. It's beautiful.

- Okay. So you are someone

right in the medical field.

Right. Okay. Yeah. Who makes

a living off of, you know,

being the head doctor ,

and you, I don't know if

that's derogatory, but, uh,

who has seen God's miracle

hand? Absolutely. Okay, cool.

- Yeah. Yeah. And my prayer point now as,

as I think about these

things is I pray, Lord,

would you give this person the

stewardship to walk it out?

- What do you mean by that?

- So,

I've seen people just

diving into subjects,

whether it be physical

healing, emotional healing,

mental healing, spiritual healing,

demonize, whatever it might be.

And the Lord heals you

right in that moment.

Um, I think he wants to teach

us how to live healed. Okay.

He, he wants to teach us how

to steward that every day.

So I think about a person maybe

who struggles a lot mentally.

So we pray for them and

the joy of the Lord comes,

but then God gives them

the strategic plan of how

to live in joy every day.

Maybe it's talking to a

friend, reading a Bible,

worship music, getting physical exercise.

There's actually a stewardship plan

where God doesn't just wanna

do something in a moment.

He wants to create a lifestyle of health.

- Yeah. Wow. I've never

heard of that said like that.

I actually think that's true

and helpful. That's great.

So as you talk about mental health, um,

maybe probably the two

most dominant things

that we're talking about

in, in people I'd imagined,

correct me if I'm wrong, would

be depression and anxiety.

So when I was a young, uh, pastor,

I would never really hear those terms.

Very, very few and far between. Yeah.

Now it feels like, uh, every

corner you turn, you know,

someone's struggling with that.

Right. What's going on there?

What do you think's happening?

- Well, I think first and foremost, we're

becoming more aware society,

and especially the church,

we're growing awareness of,

you know, these are

real medical conditions.

And it's not just okay, you know,

you're not praying enough today.

It's like we, we actually

go through things.

And I think that's encouraging

because going back to

that Isaiah 61 piece,

we're actually entering into

the process of our problems

so we can move towards the promise Okay.

Of what God wants to do. Okay.

- Okay. So you're kind of

recognizing something's

wrong. Yes. And you're able to say it.

- I think that's good. Right. Okay. Yeah.

Uh, a metaphor often

gives like a check engine,

like your car, if there's

something going on,

whether it be depression or

anxiety, et cetera, whoa.

Yeah. I need to do something about that.

And a wellknown psychologist from Canada,

his name's Dr. Gordon Neufeld,

he talks about emotions

that need to be felt.

So we need to be able

to feel our emotions,

and they're actually important messengers

that are telling us information.

Mm-hmm . It can become a problem though,

when we're not able,

or we don't have capacity to

do things with those emotions,

and then we can kind of spiral

or get locked into, uh, more

challenges in our lives.

- Yeah. I've often said, you know, kind

of pastoral perspective, if

I'm, if I'm preaching that,

you know, emotions are wonderful

slaves, terrible masters.

Right, right. They're, they're cues

that God has embedded into our

nature to tell us something.

Right. Anger isn't bad, it's

telling you something is wrong.

Right. But if you allow

it to master you, then

that's obviously not something

that you want to happen. .

- So I heard one pastor say,

how would you treat a friend

who lied to you as often as your emotions?

Yeah. a controversial

- Statement.

- I think from my perspective,

you know, I would say

emotions or their, to

help us, they're there

as our supportive partners.

They're, they're important

friends and messengers.

Can we, number one, listen

to them, partner with them,

and then work with them to move towards,

if you're feeling angry about something,

how is that gonna change you?

Maybe you have to change or

modify your environments.

You're not getting frustrated with

- That.

Yeah. Yeah. I remember when I came

to see you a few years

ago with my family, one

of my daughters, that was it.

It was emotional regulation.

And I remember that was

really helpful, that aspect,

that really practical,

Hey, here's some things,

some physical environment

changes that, that you can have

that's gonna help her mm-hmm .

Kind of be able to regulate

that. So I remember

that being game changer.

I mean, we pray and we pray

forever. We pray for her.

And, you know, after a few

months, um, of seeing you

and employing some of those

strategies, just, it changed.

But then I would tell you this is

that some of that stuff returned.

That's right. Right.

It didn't stay forever.

It helped in the moment mm-hmm

. And this past summer, um,

God touched her at camp

and she's like a whole different kid.

Amen. Like, she's, she's brave.

She's running an alpha

course at her, at her school.

Like, she's just a whole, so

I get like, emotional . Yeah.

Amen. But God has just touched

her in a wonderful way,

and so I've seen in her life.

Amen. Um, God work through you,

and I've seen God just do

something independently of anybody

and just touch her at an altar.

Right. So I've seen both at

play, which I'm really thankful for both.

- Well, pray for us. We have

three young children now. Okay.

Yeah. And we're on that

journey, and my wife

and I were just talking

about it last night,

and one of our kiddos in

particular we're like, okay, Lord,

what systems and structures

do we need to put in place?

But we felt a real strong sense in 2025,

we wanna pray more

strategically for our children.

And that testimony is so beautiful, Ken,

and whatever age your

children are, my children,

for listeners too, that we

would ask God for wisdom

and insight, how to help them Yeah.

Personally, experience God,

whatever that looks like,

because that's what changes people's

lives, and that's what changes us.

And, and that's how we become

into the full expression of

who God's made us to be.

- Yeah. Wonderful. Yeah.

So you got people who are

listening who are struggling.

Yeah. Um, they're in the thick of it,

so they're scared about the future.

They're discouraged,

they're really battling.

They, you might, they might not say I

have mental health issues.

Yeah. But they're battling. Right? Right.

They're not, they're not. Well.

So when would be a cue for someone to

go reach out to a professional such

as yourself or someone in that field?

- Well, first I wanna say, you

know, fill word's with you,

and he wants to help you.

The cross is vertical

and horizontal, so God

is always there to help.

Um, but, but the horizontal

part is he brings

people into our lives.

We're only as strong

as our supporting cast.

So no matter what you're going

through today, you need help.

We all need help, and God

wants to send us help,

but one of the most powerful

and practical ways he

sends us help is people.

Hmm. So I think no matter who you are,

we all need that support and cast.

And I think that's the first step.

So if you have a friend, a pastor,

or someone else in your life,

they can really speak in

and guide inter direct you to those Right.

Supports. That's what I

love about the local church.

We're, we're becoming really strategic

and wise in being able to guide

and direct people to the right supports.

Yeah. And obviously if you,

if you're really struggling,

it's important, um, to reach

out, you know, there's,

there's, um, emergency numbers

that you can call if you feel

that that's urgent, practically

visiting your doctor,

that's something that's absolutely free

covered by Alberta Healthcare.

That's a great first step.

Or the doc, your doctor can

say, okay, I see these symptoms.

Here's some practical supports.

They might recommend counseling.

Um, sometimes doctors even

have referral to a lower cost

or free counseling too,

so they can steward

or help direct that system.

And, and often we are

really struggling unwell,

we actually need support in helping

us get to the right people.

So I just encourage you to think about

who are those people in your

supporting cast, friends,

mentors, pastors, doctors,

whoever it might be

that can help triage and direct

you to where you need to be.

- And maybe I'll just say,

you know, uh, assume a lot

of people from our who are

listening would be from our

church, is that's kind of

what the role of the local church is.

Right. Your pastors and

the volunteer leaders

who lead small groups and,

and things like that is to

carry your burden with you.

Mm-hmm . Uh, you're not alone in that.

And, you know, I would suggest that a lot

of first step is just, you know, prayer.

Amen. Right. And someone who

you trust, you can say, Hey,

listen, um, you know, we

have a list of, you know,

professional help that

we, we refer people to.

Um, but that's usually after

we meet and we pray mm-hmm .

And, um, it's not, I

would say our first step

is, Hey, see these people.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's just like,

I can't do anything, but

maybe these people can't.

No. The first step is, let's

see if God will do something

kind of just in meeting and praying and,

and then, you know, Hey, are you part

of, do you have any friends at church?

Do you have any people

who are lifting you up

and interceding for you

or can walk with you?

And so, yeah.

That community aspect of the

local church is probably an,

an unrealized resource for

so many people in their

mental health. Yeah. Walk.

- It's so true. And I,

I think about myself.

I've been there, man, and

it's been tough, you know,

but it's been amazing how just

reaching out to one person,

it changes your whole landscape.

You feel like you're alone in the dark,

and all of a sudden just talking

to one person brings light

at the end of a tunnel.

I can think of times I've

been so anxious, so depressed,

like I, things I've really

struggled with in my life,

and it's been extremely challenging.

And in those moments, man,

I'm just so thankful, um,

for the people in my life

where I was able to call

and say, I'm really struggling.

Can you help me? And just

having that conversation

and feeling heard

and feeling understood

and feeling supported.

It didn't make everything go away,

but it made things like night

and day better difference.

- Yeah. Yeah. Uh, we see in

scripture multiple examples of,

um, people who are walking

through soul issues.

Right. We see David in

Psalm 42, like, my soul,

why are you so downcast?

You know, why are you so disturbed? Right.

We see, uh, Elijah in one

Kings 19, he's depressed

to the point of asking God

to take his life like he's suicidal.

That's he's suicidal.

Yeah. Even Jesus, right.

Our Lord in, uh, Gethsemane,

uh, you know, he,

he is, he's troubled, right?

His soul, right? Mm-hmm

. Our savior, his soul,

his mind will and emotion

are troubled within him.

And so, uh, we see a biblical example

and normalization of

emotional, you know, and, and,

and mental struggles that,

that are happening with people.

And so the reality is, is people

who are watching listening,

they're just, they're

just walking through that.

So what would you say from your seat,

someone who's listening right now,

and you know, the future is gray.

Yeah. There's lack of

hope. They're discouraged.

Maybe they're anxious or depressed.

Maybe they're not clinically right,

but they are been diagnosed like that,

but they're just sensing, man,

I have no joy for the future.

What would be something,

some practical things

or some encouragement you

could bring them today?

- The number one thing is

hope. That there's always hope.

You know, it's says well known scripture,

right in Jeremiah 29 11.

I know the plans I have for

you declares the hope plans

to give you hope and a future.

And I think you might feel like the

furthest thing away from that.

And I just wanna encourage you,

there's so many people, uh,

with similar stories and testimonies,

because the testimony of

Jesus is a spirit of prophecy.

So I'd encourage you,

number one to know, there's

so many people were, they

were on their last leg.

They were down and out.

And the Bible says, these

light momentary afflictions are

working in eternal weight of glory.

It's my greatest privilege

to walk with people

who are in those moments,

because that's when God shows up.

That's when, when we're at our worst

god's, at his best, yeah.

When we're most desperate,

we're actually the most open to change.

So it's an extremely

challenging place to be,

be It's not fun.

It's very painful. It needs

to be stewarded very well

with practical, medical,

psychological, emotional help.

But it's also a place

where miracles are born.

It's where God shows up

and speaks to you in

ways that you've never heard him before.

It's when there's clarity that

comes and, uh, understanding

and a clear vision for your life.

And I personally can think of

that one particular moment

when I was about 17 years old,

I was in and I was feeling

super depressed, super anxious,

struggling like you wouldn't believe.

And I just remember that a moment

that absolutely marked my life.

And I just felt like God came

and just very practically

through the Bible spoke some

verses and, and a mission

and a mandate for my life.

And I was honestly at the point

where I'm like, okay, Lord,

why do you still have me on this earth?

Or what am I here for? And very

practically with scriptures

and just the Bible, the Lord

really answered that question,

and it's marked my life ever since.

And I, I can think of similar

moments. It wasn't just one.

You know, we go through the

highs and lows of lights.

You know, Psalms 23, you

know, in those valleys,

in those dark places, his

rawness staff, they comfort us.

And, and the shepherd of

our soul, you know, Jesus,

he shows up and just speaks

to us in such incredible ways.

And I could almost tell you any person

who's doing amazing

things for God, you know,

who's, who's in the kingdom.

They had these moments, they

had these defining moments,

and I wish they were on the mountaintops

when everything is great.

But that's usually when we're

like, okay, I'm good God,

I'll just coast and have some fun here.

But it's in the valleys

where God just meets us

and defines our life and our

moments and speaks to us.

So number one, there's hope.

Number two, there's purpose.

That there's a purpose and

plan God has for your life.

And when we reach the end of

ourselves, we find this plan.

And I think that's such

an encouraging thing.

Doesn't feel fun, but reaching

the end of end of ourselves.

And I love what one pastor said,

that's a blessing when

our only option is God.

Yeah. It doesn't feel like a blessing,

but that's one of my favorite

verses often quote, you know,

in terms of counseling

and supporting people,

it's these light momentary reflections.

They're not fun. They don't

feel like it's not great,

but they are working in

eternal weight of glory.

So you'll look back on the

season in these moments

of your life, and I can say four

or five seasons like this for me.

And you'll say, that was the

moment, that was the season.

That was the defining moments

where the Lord spoke to me,

brought clarity, vision, direction.

Yeah. And literally, the

reason I'm here today, sitting

and talking to do this podcast

is those types of moments

where the Lord's met me.

- Yeah. It's powerful. I mean,

that would, would bring a lot

of hope, hope to people in

those spaces that, you know,

you never know what God is

gonna do in those space.

I would say for me, something

similar where I have felt God

and experienced his presence in a way

that have been few times

in my life, was in a season

of grief when my dad passed.

And it was just like, you know, the,

the comfort of the Lord.

I would never would've experienced that.

I'd never experienced the realness

if I didn't go through that suffering.

Now, I don't want that suffering.

No one wants that suffering. Right.

We don't call what is evil Good, right?

Mm-hmm

- .

- But yet God redeemed that moment

and shaped me through that.

And almost anyone that

I can say that I look up

to in the faith who I'd want

my life to emulate theirs

are people who have walked

through suffering and trials and,

and hard moments and,

and have had that, you know,

emotional battles within them.

Right. Um, and so, God,

that seems to be true.

- He'll add two pieces that number one,

we're only strong to supporting cast.

So if you go through alone,

it is not gonna be good.

It's gonna be very rough. Mm.

That, that is not God's

plans, not as well.

The only way to get through

seasons like this is

that supporting cast

the people around you.

So community is absolutely so key.

The other side of things is faith.

I love what one past are

shared recently, he said,

imagine Ken, you had $10 million.

You wrote me a check for like a zillion

- Bucks.

Hold on, just let me sit there

for a little while. . Right?

- Okay.

- Okay,

- Good.

Okay. I hope you have

a good plan with that .

So if you call me up

and say, Hey Joel, I'm gonna

give you a check on Friday

for $10 million, have give it all away.

Just let's say 1 million.

Okay? Okay. Okay. .

So, so am I gonna get excited on Friday?

Am I gonna wait or am I gonna

get excited when you tell me?

Yeah. Because you're a great guy. Yeah.

An awesome guy I can trust. Yeah.

I'm gonna get excited the minute you

tell me, Joel, I'm give

you a million bucks.

I am rejoicing. Yeah. And that's

Romans 8 28, right? It is.

Yeah. Right. So God said

he causes not some things,

not a few things, but all

things to work for good.

He doesn't cause create

chaos and crap in our lives,

but he turns it for good.

So that is the million dollar

check that he's written to us.

When we experience tragedy

difficulty, we have to say, okay,

Lord, thank you for this check.

Thank you. That working great.

All things. Yeah. For good.

I'm not gonna wait till it gets good

to rejoice. I'm rejoicing now.

- Come on. I think that's great, .

If that doesn't give you a little hope,

I'm ooh, I'm ready to go. .

So Joel, why don't you

tell us a little bit about

what you're up to right now

with some of the, the projects

and initiatives that,

that we can expect kind

of coming from you for those

who are listening Yeah.

Who just thought that was

really valuable. Yeah.

What, what can we expect from

- You?

Yeah, so good. Well, my wife

and I are kind of feel assigned.

We have a practice called

Family Life Psychology,

and we're so blessed and fortunate.

We just had our team meeting this morning.

We've got, uh, 10, uh,

registered provisional

psychologists working with us.

And our greatest passion is

supporting, encouraging them.

In addition to that, we

really feel, uh, probably

for at least 15 years, we've

really both felt called

to ministry and supporting people.

So we're actually launching an online

platform called Thrive for Life.

And our passion is

to support people in whatever

their journey might be.

There's gonna be e-course

and supports for, for parenting,

for relationships, uh,

for spiritual growth and development.

We're partnering with churches right now

to develop a Thriving Leaders project.

So for leaders, could it

be in the marketplace?

Could it be in churches,

uh, to be able to learn

and level up their leadership skills both

spiritually and practically.

And as well, we're gonna be,

uh, creating a series of,

of inspiring videos just to

help, uh, people in the body

of Christ reach the full expression

of who God's called and to be.

'cause that really is the target.

That $10 million thing, you know,

I'd give you $10 million

if I could reach the full

expression of who God's made me to be.

And I feel like there's nothing

greater than thriving in

life, spiritually,

emotionally, relationally.

God is call us two thrive.

He's cred us with that

picture in Genesis one

and myself, my wife, our team,

in whatever small role we can play.

We really want to equip the body of Christ

to see every person thrive. Yeah.

- I imagine those hearing

that right now, that idea

of thriving can feel so far off from

where they're at right now through that.

Um, but the hope of that

that's possible. Yeah.

That through God it can happen.

- And that's the story. You know, I,

I've experienced that so

many times in my own life.

And like I said, the testimony

of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

So it's so cool when God

is at work in your life

for our listeners, that it

might not be in this moment,

but they're gonna look back

and say, Hey, that was the season.

I often think of David in the cave.

Aon was a very dark time. Right.

You know, you get all his

promises, you're gonna be king.

You're this great warrior.

You've got all of a sudden

invited into a great family,

and all of a sudden everything

turns south as really bad.

And David finds himself

in this very lonely place,

and all these other

people in the same space,

in the same part of life,

you know, they're lonely,

broken down, depressed,

miserable, whatever it is,

they come together and meet 'em

and say, Hey, like, let's

figure something out.

Yeah. And from that, these

lowly people become the most

mighty warriors in history.

You think about the Avengers,

but in real life they became

mighty warrior. You read about him.

- Yeah.

- In, in David's journeys and,

and all the things he's overcome.

And I believe that's the mandate

that the Lord is calling us to as people.

We have our struggles and challenges,

but the Lord takes those challenges.

What the enemy meant for

evil and turns for good,

and not just okay, kind

of good kind of a right.

But we actually become

the oaks of righteousness,

the planting of the Lord,

the Isaiah 61 picture

that helps other people in their journey.

So just even as I share

this, if I rewind 10 years,

it was the people who

helped me get to this point.

Hmm. And there's gonna be people

listening in 10 years from

now, they're gonna be in our chairs.

Yeah. Equipping

and supporting others as

they've gone through

their own process. Yeah.

- Thanks Joel. Absolutely. Yeah.

Well, thanks everyone for tuning in

and, and, uh, listening to this.

If you found it helpful,

we're happy about that.

And the reality is that God

loves you. God cares for you.

He does have a plan and

a purpose for your life.

And there is hope available

for you today in him.

You know, I'm reminded of

Jesus' words in Matthew 11.

Come to me all who are weary

and I'll give you rest.

And I just really want to,

uh, encourage you to enter

that rest to, um,

prioritize that relationship

with Jesus in this season of struggle.

Uh, if you might be in that

and just experience the

rest that Jesus has for you.

Thanks for watching.