Binge drinking, gray area drinking, childhood pain, shame, and the hidden reasons we reach for alcohol with Life Beyond the Binge author Colleen Clifford.

You don't drink every day. You don't drink alone. You can go weeks without alcohol. So you couldn't possibly have a drinking problem... right?

In this episode of the Adult Child of Dysfunction Podcast, I sit down with Colleen Clifford, author of Life Beyond the Binge: A Commercial Fisherwoman's Journey Home, for an honest conversation about binge drinking, gray area drinking, shame, and the stories hiding underneath the behaviors we use to escape what we're feeling.

For years, Colleen could easily rationalize her relationship with alcohol because most of the time, drinking didn't create a problem. She calls it her “95/5 factor.” But that small percentage when things went too far carried risks that could change her life—or someone else's—forever. Eventually, one frightening experience forced her to ask whether alcohol was worth that risk.

But this conversation isn't really just about alcohol.

It's about the story beneath the behavior.

Colleen shares how she eventually uncovered an old painful belief that she wasn't lovable—and how that belief had quietly influenced her choices for years. We talk about why adult children often reach for alcohol, food, scrolling, relationships, or other quick sources of relief when uncomfortable emotions surface.

We also explore shame, the inner critic, self-worth, accountability, relapse, learning to celebrate progress instead of demanding perfection, and why getting curious about a behavior can be far more powerful than judging yourself for it.

Colleen offers one beautifully simple question:

“How is it working for you?”

If a behavior repeatedly leaves you feeling ashamed, afraid, disconnected, or wondering what happened the night before, maybe you don't need another excuse for it.

Maybe you need to become curious about what's underneath it.

And sometimes, saying yes to yourself is the first step toward changing everything.

Colleen offers listeners a FREE Self-Guided Journey Workbook designed to help you begin exploring the story beneath your behavior.

She also offers a free call after completing the workbook to talk through what you discovered.

Visit Life Beyond the Binge + Get Colleen's Resources

Colleen also discusses The Exhale, her intimate women's retreat planned for Bali in April 2027, centered around exploring the story beneath your behavior, reconnecting with who you are, and beginning to rewrite where your story goes next.

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good morning, everybody, and

welcome back to another episode

2

of Adult Child of Dysfunction.

3

Today, we have with us

a very special guest.

4

Her name is Colleen Clifford, and

she is the author of the book Life

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Beyond the Binge: A Commercial

- Fisherwoman's Journey Home.

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- I'm excited to hear about this,

first of all 'cause my husband's-

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a fisherman, so I was like- Yes … what

do I have to get myself into here?"

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But welcome, Colleen.

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Thank you.

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I appreciate your flexibility with that.

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I had to chuckle because anyone in

the fishing world knows that there's

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really no start and end date that you

can guarantee because, it's fishing.

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So I think we had to reschedule this, and

so I really appreciate that, thank you.

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Yeah, no problem.

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I'm flexible anyway.

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The other guy, yeah, yesterday's guy,

we recorded at 9:00 at night 'cause

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he had to take his son to the dentist,

so I'm like- Oh … I'm all good.

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It's, I'm very flexible.

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So I'm just gonna jump right in.

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Okay.

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First of all, I'm gonna ask you about

your fishing real quick, and we'll

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just touch- Okay … on that because

my husband is a fisherman, so I wanna

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know what you did as a fisherwoman.

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Oh.

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Okay, I still fish.

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And I work for a corporation,

so it's a large ship, honestly.

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It's not a boat.

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I call it a boat, but it's a huge ship.

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It's a factory trawler.

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We're off the coast

Bering Sea near Alaska.

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Oof.

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So we're on the other side

of the country, right?

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You're over on the east coast?

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I'm in Florida.

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Yes.

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Okay, so yeah, you're on the

other side of the country.

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So probably warm water.

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We're cold water.

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Very cold up there.

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I just got off my contract.

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I'm a chef on the boat, and

they're still out fishing.

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I have five weeks home.

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Yay.

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I got my land legs back after a

week, and I go back out probably

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in four weeks for just a month.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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So what do you fish for?

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We fish for pollock.

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It's, Okay … and it's huge quantity

fishing, so it's not like with a pole.

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It's with a net.

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And our pollock product goes

to all different sources.

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Some fast food restaurants use it for

fish sandwiches if they're a decent size.

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We make fertilizer with it.

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We send it to imitation crab.

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There's lots of uses for pollock, okay.

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Perfect.

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Yeah.

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I was just curious ', when you said Bering

Strait, I'm picturing the Deadliest Catch.

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I'm picturing- Yeah … you

hanging over with one of those big

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600-pound nets, and I'm like, "Oh,

I'm glad you're here, the ship."

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Oh.

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Yeah.

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Thank you.

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I did that once, and

that was enough for me.

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Yeah, it's enough for me just to watch it.

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, But anyway.

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Yes.

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But welcome.

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I do wanna say welcome.

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Yeah.

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And I wanna jump into your book because

I honestly, , most of the people that

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are listening to this are adult children

of alcoholics/dysfunctional families,

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so a lot of addiction, a lot of those

type topics, a lot of dysfunction.

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I've never had anybody come on

and talk about binge drinking.

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. It just kinda shocked me.

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I was like, wow, I'd never had

anybody even, use the word term

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in 360 episodes, but- Oh, wow.

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Gosh.

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Yeah.

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I think they, it, they, some people

may call it gray area drinking,

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but for me that's still floaty.

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Binge drinking is what it is.

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It's, we call it partying, and maybe

that's why people don't really associate

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it with having a alcohol use disorder

or, because there's a lot of ways you

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can deny binge drinking as being a

thing, and that's the story of my life.

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Because I am a former binge drinker,

and I'm in my, later years in life.

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So for many years I could talk

away any problem And I call it

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the 95/5 factor in my book because

meaning for 95% of my drinking

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experience, I- it wasn't a problem.

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I- you can party, y- you meaning anyone,

myself and not have a problem, right?

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Three beers, go home, maybe

have a headache the next

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day, but nothing happens.

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And I'm talking about when the three

accidentally turns to six or seven.

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We read about it all the time, kids that

get in a accident when they're partying.

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That's called binge drinking,

and it only takes one time of not

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planning your drinking, having

a binge, and maybe your life's

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completely destroyed from that moment.

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Oh, yeah.

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And it's, yeah, and it's those

decisions when obviously you're

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seven beers in, eight drinks in,

that you are not thinking obviously

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from the logical side of your mind.

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You're literally thinking from an

almost blacked out side of your brain.

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And I used to say that, and I cringe

now thinking about me saying it,

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but I was, I would say, "I will not

drive if I have one or two, but if

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I have eight or nine, I'm fine."

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Yeah.

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And that's the 5% I'm talking about.

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Because within that, so when you're

at a party, like you just said,

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if you have one or two, and it's

okay, you're not drunk, right?

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You think, but you are really

over the limit probably.

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But the eight or nine, - for a lot

of people, that's normal at a party.

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It was for me.

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I probably could have drank eight beers.

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, And that, that could be okay too, right?

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Maybe you don't drive home drunk, and

you wake up with a massive hangover

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a- and might think to yourself,

"Wow, I overdid it yesterday.

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I'm gonna slow down," right?

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That's what the story

everyone, a lot of people say.

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But I'm talking about what if you did

drive home drunk after the eight or

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nine when you swore you never would,

'cause when you're drinking, you still

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make i- irrational decisions, and you

end up killing someone or yourself,

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and that's the dangerous part of

evaluating our drinking, is it worth it?

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And for me, the last instance of

having a binge where I did drive home

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drunk, by the way .. i thought that

partying side of me was over years ago.

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I'm in my 60s for crying out loud, right?

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And I still drove home drunk.

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So I realized the next day,

and I'm ashamed of that.

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I'm doing my penance for Mothers

Against Drunk Drivers and what have you.

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I was scared straight I didn't hit rock

bottom because I had no repercussions,

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but I realized for myself- That in

order to never do anything again that

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could totally disrupt my life or someone

else's, I had to just eliminate alcohol.

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Because there's no guarantee

in that 5% of partying that

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something's gonna go sideways.

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Or not go sideways, so if you

look at the technical definition,

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they say binge drinking is just

more than four in two hours.

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I think that's what they kinda

classify binge drinking as.

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That's easy to do if you're at a party.

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That's easy to do if you're at a

college dorm and you're just…-

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easy to do.

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Exactly.

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And so what kinda differentiates in

your mind the difference between, like,

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how did you know, "Okay, this could

potentially be a problem if I keep doing

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this, and so it has to be a non-negotiable

for me to not hurt someone"?

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It's because over my years of drinking,

I've, in the back of my mind, when

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I did party or something happened

that, maybe I wasn't proud of, I

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would think, "Do I have a problem?"

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And then I'd push it aside because I

would say, "I don't drink every day."

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I had all these rationalizations

for why it wasn't a problem.

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I'd contact my friends.

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They'd say, "Oh, you

don't drink that much.

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You just didn't eat."

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All these excuses.

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So what finally pushed me into the

moment of, "This needs to stop forever,"

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was when I went to this last party,

as an adult now, five years ago, and

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I was only gonna have a few beers.

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I got there.

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The, it crept in, which it can, right?

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You only plan for two,

but you end up having six.

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And I irrationally thought I was okay to

drive, 'cause, I'm from the generation

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where we didn't have Ubers, and I hate

to say this, but many people have driven

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home drunk many occasions in my age group.

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They might not say it

out loud, but it happens.

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And it still happens today, by the way.

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There's one i- every 42 seconds,

someone dies by a drunk driver.

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So it's still a problem.

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But with all that being said,

I woke up and went, "Colleen."

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Even driving home I realized,

oh, my God, how drunk I was.

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I wasn't that drunk when I left.

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It hit, 'cause it was a long

drive, so after about a hour, I

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started seeing double, and I'm

like, "Oh, my God, I'm drunk."

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I didn't even think I

was drunk when I left.

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Again, that's the

stupidity of drunkenness.

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You don't realize how drunk you are

when you're in the moment, right?

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Someone has to point it out to you.

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And so at that point, rationally, yes,

I shoulda just pulled over and called

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my partner and said, "Come get me," but

no, I stupidly, I will say it, continued

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and said a promise "Get me home."

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Safely without killing anyone,

and I swear I will quit.

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And the next day I was

like I need to quit.

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I'm not…

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This binge drinking, I have a wild card in

my hand, and it could flip over any time.

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The only way to guarantee

something like that won't happen

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again is to just not drink.

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And so I started my journey of I

asked for help, because in the past

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I obviously couldn't do it on my

own, so that was a hard thing for me.

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Yeah.

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Best decision I ever made in my life,

and here I am now sharing the story and

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hoping that s- it will resonate with

someone, and maybe they'll make a shift

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for themselves too if it's a problem.

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It is, and it's a problem

for a lot of people.

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And unfortunately it starts, and

it's just like the normal, but I…

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People do, you can rationalize anything.

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You can…

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And I've heard it so many

times I'm just gonna have…

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Oh, I've had three.

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Let me go ahead and eat some

bread, and I'm gonna do this,

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and I'm gonna soak it up."

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And at the end of the

day, it doesn't matter.

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It's still, there's no reason to ke-

continue, but we don't think that way,

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and unfortunately we don't think that way.

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But I always say to people, 'cause I,

I do a lot of talking, I am addiction

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and recovery certified, whatever,

I don't know what the term even is.

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It doesn't even matter.

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But I do a lot, I work with a lot

of people that have gone through

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different addictions and have gone

through recovery, and that gray area

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drinking, kinda like you said, it's

always that, "I don't drink every day.

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I don't drink very often.

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I don't drink when I'm alone."

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Like, all of these things we've

kinda been like if I don't do

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that, I don't have a problem."

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But if you sit down and you have

two, and then all of a sudden you're

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like, "Wow, I can finally relax,"

and then you have three, and then

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it's "Wow, I don't remember the pain.

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I don't remember the hurt."

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It's like we're still, some people

are still drinking for a reason.

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And did you have a reason

that got you drinking?

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Oh, yeah.

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And I call it the story

beneath the behavior.

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That's my trademark now.

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It, this is what I speak on a lot, because

I believe exactly what you said, Tammy.

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There's a story beneath our

behavior, that we're drowning

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in however manner we choose.

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If it's scrolling, if

it's whatever, right?

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The uncomfortableness that

we don't wanna deal with.

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Yeah, I had a, something happen, and

this is what I write about in my book,

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is when I was like started writing I

didn't know that's what I was gonna write

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about, but after I wrote everything, I

realized that there was a pain point of

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a particular incident which I created

a story, which wasn't true, but I

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created it, and I continued to live out

my adult life with this belief I had.

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And it was un- it wasn't until

I could unearth that and go,

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"Oh my God, this is the problem.

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This is what I, this is why I was trying

to, this is why I was m- operating

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the way I have been," and then you

release that story and you just go,

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"Wow, that's incredible how many years

I spent- Not loving myself because

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of something that happened to me.

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It wasn't my fault, and yet I turned

it around into a shameful thing where

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I'm not lovable, and I honestly believe

that, and I continue to put myself

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in situations or with people who

kinda reinforce that belief, right?

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Not every decision.

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I have a, a wonderful family,

and my partner's amazing and…

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But, back in the day when I was

really struggling, unaware, living

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this belief, yeah, I was doing all

kinds of reckless stuff, drinking.

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It was very heavy in my 20s

and early 30s till I started to

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uncover, oh, wow, maybe I have a

problem, and figure it out, right?

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But it makes sense.

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There's so many of the people that

would have these, I don't wanna

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say gray area drinking, because

if it's g- if it's gray area…

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I tell people, and this is just my

own personal opinion, if you wake

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up and you have shame or scared

or you're like, "What did I say?

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What did I…"

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You're blacking out, it's a problem.

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Absolutely.

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And no matter how you try to spin it, no

matter how you try to rationalize it, if

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it's one more thing that adds guilt and

shame to your plate, then it's a problem.

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And most people the, most of the people

that I know came from a very traumatic

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background, so a very traumatic childhood.

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And they drank to numb,

or they drank to be…

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it's our…

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N- drinking is a really good

way to get a quick dopamine hit.

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And when you have pain, whether it's

from your childhood or something

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that happened or a death right now,

pain and loss, it is really easy.

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It is really easy, and that's why

I think a lot of people have one,

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and they go, "Oh, I can fi…"

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With me, it was, wow, after three or four,

I can finally, quote-unquote, "be myself."

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I would let- It's a bad reason … loose

enough to not be afraid of my environment.

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And that's not a good…

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so it's but it's, did s- does

stopping alcohol actually fix that?

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No, 'cause you're not

replacing that dopamine hit.

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You're gonna get it somewhere.

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When you're in pain, you

will find a way to get that.

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And like you said, it could

be that doom scrolling.

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I think right now one of the biggest

addictions we have is that phone.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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I look at children and even

myself I'm guilty of it.

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Like, when I get nervous or don't

wanna have a conversation with

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someone, I open up my phone.

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I'm like, ah, TikTok, Instagram

what are we doing here?

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And it's like, because it

gives me that just quick sense.

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My brain gets that quick reward

of, okay, I had a relief from

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the stress for just a second.

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Tammy, I was at a concert the

other day, and I s- I noticed

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two people sitting down.

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It was a great show.

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Most of the crowd was up dancing, and

this isn't to judge them, it was just

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an observation of what you're saying.

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And they were on their phones,

like, looking at Facebook or

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whatever, and I thought, "Wow."

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I felt actually sorry for them.

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You can't put your phone down

and enjoy the experience?

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That we're so addicted to

looking at whatever it is we

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look at for that dopamine hit.

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That- and I just was like,

"Wow, this is a problem."

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Yeah, for sure.

295

I've said to parents, 'cause they're

like, "Yeah, I can't get my daughter

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off my phone and- off her phone," and

I'm like, "When you're getting ready

297

to have a conversation she knows she

doesn't wanna have, is it really intense?"

298

And she's like, "Yeah."

299

I'm like, "She's dissociating."

300

Yeah.

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That is a break from reality,

no matter how you look at it.

302

She is stepping away

going, "I can't deal."

303

And I think that, that drinking,

I know for me it was my dopamine

304

hit, and I could be myself, I

could lighten up, I wasn't scared.

305

I grew up with so much walking

on eggshells, and I had horrible

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relationships 'cause I didn't know how to

have a relationship 'cause I didn't know

307

what it looked like, and I had social

anxiety and everything else, and…

308

But get three or four beers in me

and I was the life of the party.

309

I was fun.

310

I was me.

311

Or so I thought.

312

Yeah.

313

The interesting thing is, you, which you

know I'm sure, is that after the second

314

drink, the dopamine hit starts changing

because the other chemicals, the d- the

315

serotonin which makes you depressed.

316

So it's, two drinks is the best

place to be if you're gonna drink.

317

And then it starts going

downhill from there.

318

Exactly.

319

And you- But you think you're going

uphill, but you're really going downhill.

320

Exactly.

321

And honestly, like you said, and when

you truly, and I've talked to a lot of

322

people that agree with this in their

experiences, is all of a sudden it's

323

two and then they start coming faster.

324

Yes.

325

And then it's, because it's

"Oh yeah, now this is-" Yeah.

326

"… this feels really good," until it doesn't.

327

It does.

328

Exactly.

329

I know.

330

Yeah.

331

Yeah.

332

So what are some of the things…

333

Okay, so you quit cold turkey.

334

I did.

335

You just said, "Bam, none, no more."

336

Yeah.

337

I had a, it wasn't a linear

quit, there, I am human, so I

338

did have some, it was a process.

339

But that was also learning experience

that, you know, even if I went 30 days

340

and maybe had two beers- In those 30

days, the rest of the month I did great,

341

which was better than I did before.

342

So it was just learning how to give

myself some grace and learn from it.

343

But yeah, basically I

did quit cold turkey.

344

I knew it the next day after I woke up.

345

I had all those thoughts you explained

of the shame, the guilt, time to

346

change, this is a problem, and I

knew that I had to figure it out.

347

Congratulations, 'cause most people don't.

348

Thank you.

349

And, or they go to something else.

350

Yeah.

351

Because they're not actually…

352

So I'm assuming, and I don't know, I

could be wrong, did you go back- … and

353

figure out, okay, why, 'Cause when I

go to do something, like I'm going to

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pick up my phone because I'm nervous,

I'll pick it up and go, "Tammy, why?"

355

I started questioning, what is going

through my head that I feel like I

356

need to step away and get on my phone?

357

And start questioning that.

358

Same thing with the drink not,

oh good this feels good, but why

359

do I feel like I need a drink?

360

- Did you go through all that?

361

I did, not to the depths of finding

the story beneath the behavior.

362

That was a, a number

of years of processing.

363

But what I, when I quit, when I

would have a craving, I would go

364

to the why am I craving it now.

365

It was a superficial craving thing,

not why did I drink in the first place.

366

But it would be like, why

am I having a craving now?

367

And then I'd look at, what's going on.

368

So I guess it's basically yes, to

answer your question am I anxious?

369

Am I hungry?

370

Is it just a habit because I

used to drink at 3:00 every day?

371

Or not every day, but when I did drink.

372

But when I'm home from the boat,

I have a lot of free time, so it's

373

not like I have many obligations,

so it is easy to drink more.

374

Or was easy to drink more, but.

375

So yeah, questioning it is good,

but that takes awareness, right?

376

And that's the first place to start

is why am I reaching for this beer

377

right now, and then figure it out.

378

And it's no different if you've got,

pre-diabetes and you're reaching for

379

a chocolate chip cookie every night.

380

Exactly.

381

Why am I reaching for this cookie?

382

And it's almost like I tell

people, have that replacement.

383

What could feel almost just as good

as that cookie right now, maybe not

384

quite as good, but what could give you

that reward that's not going to hurt

385

you or somebody else in the long run?

386

And so it's replacing

387

and it takes practice.

388

And it's really, quite honestly, I

like to be frank it's tough in the

389

beginning because that's the hardest

time, j- adjusting your habits and

390

your MO, your way of operating.

391

And but that's where you

get your support, right?

392

If you can do it on your own, great, but

I don't know, it's just so much simpler

393

when you have a support, a network of

people to, or someone to bounce back

394

where you are and how it is and how

challenging and how can I make it easier?

395

And knowing that your wins

will start building on top of

396

each other and it gets easier.

397

If you have three wins and you

have a fallback, it's okay, right?

398

The world's not over.

399

Why did you…

400

everything's a choice, so why

on that day did you choose

401

to, if it's drinking, drink?

402

And then you go, okay whatever, you

figure it out, and then you go back and

403

you just keep moving forward not going

down the ditch of I'm, I'll never quit.

404

What the heck, I give up right now 'cause

I had- Well- … one sip of a beer.

405

Yeah, and some- It's over.

406

And when you don't have an accountability

partner, whether you, like you said,

407

whether it's a community, a group,

a friend, a partner, whatever it is,

408

if you don't have that accountability

partner and you're coming from a place

409

which I truly believe like 99% of the

people that I work with are coming from a

410

place of whatever happened, for whatever

reason, they don't feel worthy or good

411

or enough, so they don't feel deserving.

412

If they don't do that, they're not

going to be able to see the wins

413

and celebrate the wins for themself.

414

Yeah.

415

I do…

416

it's very hard to be

like, "Way to go, Tammy.

417

You went 29 days, and

one day you messed up."

418

No, what do we do when we have

that inner critic, our little

419

subconscious inner critic sitting on

our shoulders where it's "You suck.

420

You messed that up.

421

You screwed up.

422

Why are you even doing this?

423

You're never gonna do it."

424

I can picture the words

going through people's heads.

425

And but if you have an accountability

partner or somebody that's gonna

426

say, "What, are you kidding me?"

427

"You went 29 days.

428

Good job."

429

Exactly.

430

Sometimes we need the validation,

especially in the beginning of our

431

journey of change- to reinforce

that positive good job, right?

432

And you're like, "Oh, okay,

I can maybe accept that."

433

And then you start doing it yourself.

434

You don't need the accountability anymore.

435

You start…

436

Once you get to that point of empowerment

of, "I got this," "I deserve this,"

437

I, It's just a beautiful process.

438

It really…

439

Yes.

440

Yeah.

441

So talk about a little

bit more about what you…

442

'Cause I'm sure you've learned a lot

too, and share with the audience.

443

I talk a lot about this, but

about the whole what makes some…

444

what happens inside your body as you're

going through that binge process?

445

S- for me, sometimes

the alcohol is a poison.

446

It's, and the way you can just show truth

to it is when we drink too much and throw

447

up, that's our body expelling the poison.

448

If it wasn't, we wouldn't be throwing up.

449

So physically, your body's going

through so many changes the second

450

you take a sip of alcohol, and

it's all in protecting the brain.

451

And so our bodies are really

452

fascinatingly geared to keep us

healthy and alive, and the brain is the

453

central spot because without our brain

functioning, our heart's not working.

454

And that's why some people black out or,

so the … It gets very con- complicated

455

with what goes on in our brain.

456

But with each beer, each alcohol

that we're consuming, different

457

parts shut down, and then you can

actually die from drinking too much.

458

Y- just where your body, your

brain, emotionally, the, y-

459

that's each person's journey.

460

I know for me, I just thought it was fun.

461

Like you, I was, thought I was more of me

when I drank more and, but honestly, I saw

462

a video of myself one time when I thought

I was perfectly fine, and I was horrified.

463

It's funny that we think we're operating

the best dancer in the room, the

464

funniest, and if you were to see yourself

transitioning the entire night of a

465

party, you might go, "Whoa, I need to

change," if I don't wanna be that person.

466

And 'cause a lot of times we don't wanna

believe it, i'll tell someone in my family

467

now who might be drinking that, "You did

this," and they'll go, "I didn't do that."

468

I s- next time I'm gonna get it on

a- on video so you can see, right?

469

So I hope I answered your question.

470

I, I- Yeah.

471

Yeah, you did.

472

Yeah.

473

And I had nine different thoughts come

through my head- … as you were saying

474

that, but I was kinda laughing because

I will lo- I love to go, I work at a

475

restaurant at night, and I love- … to

watch people who are at the bar, and

476

I'm like, "Ooh," "She should stop now.

477

Now."

478

And I'll be thinking to myself, and

I'm not serving them, so I'm like,

479

but you see the, the voice gets

loud, and then she gets a little more

480

energetic, and then she's dancing.

481

And I remember those.

482

I remember that, being

like, "Oh, did I really?

483

Did I really?"

484

But that's where, that's, you're in

college, and all of a sudden it's like,

485

"Oh that's fun," and that was funny,

but it's not funny because like you

486

said, anything horrible can happen

when you're making those bad choices.

487

And people, how many people get their

stomachs pumped every single night i-

488

co- from college dorms, and you can die.

489

And pe- and yeah, it's,

definitely you can die.

490

But it's-

491

It's hard to explain to a college kid.

492

You don't understand

what's actually happening.

493

I remember I was with some

friends one night, and they were

494

drinking tequila, margaritas.

495

And I was driving them home.

496

I had a brand-new car, burgundy paint

she threw up out of my car window.

497

Oh, my gosh.

498

And I didn't think anything of it.

499

I dropped her off.

500

I made sure she was okay, everything else.

501

The next day I go out, and it

was eaten down to the silver.

502

Oh, wow.

503

From the stomach acid and the tequila

and everything else, and I was like

504

I remember calling her up, and

I'm like, "Come look at this."

505

Wow.

506

And she came over, and

she's "That did that?"

507

I'm like, "Yeah, can you imagine what

it did to your intestinal lining?"

508

Yeah.

509

My gosh.

510

Can you imagine what

it did to your stomach?

511

Yeah, the fact that our brains

and bodies can recover from a

512

night of dumping a bunch of booze

down it is just incredible to me.

513

And I'm amazed.

514

That's another reason that keeps me off

the booze is my brain and my mental state.

515

Especially as I age, I need all

of it, my memory, everything.

516

Yeah.

517

I need help, and alcohol's

not helpful for that, no.

518

No.

519

But wow, what a story.

520

Yeah.

521

But did that stop you from drinking?

522

No.

523

No, not at that point in my life.

524

Exactly.

525

I had just happened to be the designated

driver that night, so I wasn't drinking.

526

She was, but- good for you … no, it

didn't, it, and it did … And now I do.

527

I think back, and I'm like, "Thank God."

528

I look at my children, and I'm glad

they have Uber, and they glad they have

529

things, and they always had me to call.

530

But not everybody makes

that good decision.

531

And like I said, it's that you

lose your … there's those stages.

532

One, you get a little ooh, I

feel a little bit something.

533

And then two, it's oh, I'm a little

happier and a little more relaxed.

534

, Your cognitive ability keeps

going down and down, and then

535

you don't make the decisions.

536

Once your inhibitions are completely

gone, that's where you end up, at the

537

frat parties doing things you don't

wanna do and it unfortunately happens,

538

And then the blackout, where your memory

center can't retain memories any longer

539

because it's moved over to some other

part of your brain that it needs to be.

540

Like, it's just like things start

shutting down- Yeah … the more

541

we drink, and, that's when you have

moments of the night you don't remember.

542

Yeah.

543

It could be a brown-out.

544

They call that a brown-out, too.

545

But yeah.

546

And so anyways- Yeah, and actually-

… these are my opinions … the

547

blackouts, that was the most confusing

thing for me as a child, because

548

my mother was a blackout drinker.

549

And she would say things, and the next

day I'd be like, "Why did you say that?"

550

And she's like, "I didn't say that."

551

And I can remember as a kid being like,

"Okay, we don't have many rules in this

552

house, but one of them is we don't lie."

553

Oh, wow.

554

And so I would say to

my father, I was little.

555

I was probably seven, eight, and

I remember saying to him, Mommy

556

told me last night she hated me.

557

, Why would she say that?

558

And now she's denying it."

559

And my father would just

say, "Oh, she was drinking.

560

" She doesn't remember.

561

That was so confusing to me,

and because I'm thinking…

562

I didn't understand alcohol at that point.

563

It was just she was drinking.

564

I drink all the time, and I still

don't tell my mom I hate her.

565

You know what I mean?

566

And , that went in my book.

567

I remember that as B.

568

I think it was blackout- … because I

couldn't wrap my head around the- concept

569

as a young child that you could say

something and physically not remember it.

570

Yeah.

571

Or do something, right?

572

Or do something.

573

Yeah.

574

Yeah.

575

Yeah, and that could be why some people

do heinous things and they deny doing it.

576

They don't remember.

577

Yeah.

578

And yeah, and then once you get

shown or you're like, "Oh, God."

579

Exactly.

580

"That was really stupid."

581

But usually, unfortunately,

sometimes it ends up in jail

582

, Your drinking came from obviously

trying to numb whatever it happened

583

that gave you that feeling of

unworthiness, unloving, and as a child.

584

What suggestions can you give

to people if they think they're

585

teetering on that gray area drinking?

586

Yeah.

587

A suggestion I like to offer,

which I do in my book, is just

588

how is it working for you?

589

It's a simple question.

590

Write your list.

591

Drinking provides this for me.

592

This is what I don't like

about my drinking habits.

593

And it's a matter of looking at your, what

you're doing with your drinking, how it's

594

making you feel, and if you really wanna

change, then take a first action step of

595

what do I need to do to start changing?

596

And for every person, - that's probably

gonna be different, but one of them

597

probably will be getting some kind of

help or join a group .. it's really hard

598

to change on your own, the drinking.

599

And honestly, I wanna add that because

I did that for years, and I know

600

everyone's not me, but I know I hid

in the fact that I had a problem.

601

I didn't want anyone to really know

when I came out and said I'm a binge

602

drinker, people were shocked because

they didn't see it as a problem.

603

And I tried to explain to

them it's, wasn't really a

604

problem until it's a problem."

605

Yeah.

606

And I didn't share when it was a

problem 'cause I'm not gonna wake up

607

and tell everyone I drove home drunk.

608

So nobody's gonna know except

me, unless I share that.

609

And once I started sharing it, it

released some of my shame too, because

610

I thought, "Oh, other people did it.

611

Other people had things

they were shameful about."

612

And so when you get in a group of people

who are on the same journey that you are,

613

it's nice to realize you're not alone.

614

You're not the only one with

this monkey on your back.

615

And there's ways to support each

other to get to where you wanna be,

616

wherever that is in, in your life.

617

And just, a lot of the people that

I work with too, you know with that

618

underlying feeling of I'm not worthy

and I'm not good enough and I'm not

619

lovable, and it's just you're…

620

- whatever the issue is, whatever the

feeling is that's making you feel,…

621

I try to tell people, "You were

put on this earth to do something

622

amazing, to be something amazing."

623

Whether you know it or not, I truly

believe God put every single person

624

on this earth with a mission,

with a plan, with a purpose.

625

And sometimes I feel like people that

get to that point "Oh, who cares?"

626

I'll be like, "You coulda died."

627

And they're like, "Who cares?"

628

You should care.

629

And it's that purpose.

630

If you had to pick one thing,

that's to me is what it is.

631

People need some kind of

purpose- that's beautiful

632

To make a big change.

633

They, you need to feel like you

have a purpose being here, or

634

it's just kinda "Eh, whatever."

635

And I've met people that have been.

636

I myself have been at that point in my

life where I'm like, "Eh, what, it, okay."

637

"I'm glad I didn't hurt someone, but

had I, if I hurt myself, oh that's

638

oh and I just, I encourage people to,

look at your … No, just, or try to

639

soak it in as much as you can when I

say that everybody has a purpose and

640

everybody was born amazing and beautiful.

641

And you will find way more pleasure in

the long run by finding those things

642

that light you up that are not harmful.

643

Exactly.

644

Yeah, that's…

645

Oh, beautifully said.

646

You're absolutely right.

647

I guess I don't even know where

I was going with that, but I just

648

feel like there are so many people

that just, they drink and you can't

649

make somebody want to stop drinking.

650

Oh, no.

651

That's a for sure.

652

I can relate to what you said

because when I came home the night

653

that I did drive drunk, I was more

concerned about killing anyone else.

654

I don't even said killing myself.

655

So I think the purpose is very important.

656

And then having your why do you wanna

quit, because like you said, nobody's

657

gonna quit unless they want to.

658

So there has to be a strong enough reason.

659

I know people who quit 'cause

their daughter said, "You can't see

660

my grandkids if you're drinking,

and I know you're drinking."

661

So if they wanna see the

grandkids, they have to quit.

662

There's reasons to push you to start

quitting, and then hopefully at the

663

end of the day you quit for yourself,

not- because you get a ultimatum.

664

But yeah, I remember a comment my son said

to me, and he's 30 now, but he was about

665

six, and we were at a party at my in-laws'

house, and we were doing something.

666

We were playing pool,

and we had quite a few.

667

And my son came up to me, he was probably

six or seven maybe, and he hugged me, and

668

he said, "Mommy, I don't like this you."

669

Oh, wow.

670

And I was like, "Ugh."

671

It was like a knife in my heart.

672

Oh, my goodness.

673

And I- I love that honesty … I

did not, I don't think they saw

674

me drink until they were teenagers

and could really rational…

675

You know what I mean?

676

Then I was like, "Oh, then now they

can kinda know what's going on," and,

677

but I was always very honest with them

about, they never met their grandmother

678

because she died of cirrhosis at 42.

679

You know what I mean?

680

It was like I was very honest about that.

681

But that one statement, I was like, "I

will never let them see me like that.

682

Never."

683

And- Wow.

684

Yeah.

685

And it's, and it's, they know my history.

686

I'm on a, this podcast.

687

I do this.

688

I do all that.

689

They knew my history and everything.

690

But yeah, it's everything, it's

kinda like those two-by-fours I

691

call them that you get in life.

692

It's not a slap in the face.

693

It's a freaking two-by-four

that goes da-ding.

694

Love that.

695

Oh, my gosh.

696

Yeah.

697

That one sentence- … was a two-by-four.

698

Yeah.

699

That's beautiful, Tammy.

700

I love, that's- Yeah.

701

I always say, that's one of my

favorite expressions, you don't

702

have to hit me with a brick twice.

703

But some people, you have to hit

them with a brick over and over again

704

until that brick has some meaning.

705

Yes.

706

Yeah.

707

But not you.

708

You got it once.

709

But I do.

710

And he just, I remember looking him

up at me with those little innocent

711

eyes, and I remember thinking- Oh

712

wow, I never even got to

say that to my parents.

713

Oh.

714

So I'm gonna take that to heart, and

I'm going to act on that for sure now.

715

Yeah.

716

You have a chance to change.

717

Absolutely.

718

Wow.

719

That's beautiful.

720

Yeah.

721

So are you writing more

books, or what are you…?

722

Not at the moment.

723

Right now I'm in the - mode of

promoting, and the book's a platform

724

to speak hopefully find other

opportunities to share the message.

725

I do wanna speak at colleges,

and so I think I've got a lot of

726

work I can do around this book.

727

And honestly, it was a lot

of work to write the book,

728

so I'm ugh, done for a few.

729

Yeah.

730

You wrote your book too, right?

731

Yeah.

732

It was funny.

733

I actually had been thinking about writing

a book for a really long time, and my son

734

kept saying to me, "Just write your book.

735

Just write your book."

736

And I'm like, "I know.

737

When I have time."

738

And I was working at a restaurant

at night, and I just, everything

739

else was happening, and then I went

on a trip with my son and drank too

740

much- and fell off a scooter and

tore five ligaments in my knees.

741

Wow.

742

And as we were heading to the emergency

room or coming back from the emergency

743

room, I don't remember which it was, he

said to me, "Okay, so we've been telling

744

you to slow down and write your book.

745

Now God just said

fricking write your book.

746

'Cause now you have

three and a half months."

747

So in those three and a half months

I wrote and published two books.

748

Wow.

749

Yeah, are you still - are

you drinking now, or was that

750

the - period that you quit?

751

Are you a drinker?

752

I'm not.

753

I will have one, two maybe.

754

Two.

755

Anything more than one, like I get into

that second one, and I just think it was

756

God's way of saying, "Tammy, you really

probably don't need to be drinking."

757

But I told my husband, I've

said, "If I have one, I'm good.

758

If I have one and a half, I

throw up in my mouth all night."

759

So- Oh, wow … obviously my body

just doesn't like it anymore.

760

And, it's not every day I go out and

like party every once in a while.

761

That's not, I'll have

one- No … with dinner.

762

I will never order more

than one and a half.

763

You know what I mean?

764

It just, no.

765

Yeah.

766

It's not your identity anymore?

767

No.

768

And it really never was, but- … in,

except for when I was in my 20s.

769

When I was in my 20s,

when I was in college.

770

Actually, honestly, if I have to be

honest, most of my heavy drinking

771

was before I even got into college.

772

Was when I was in high school.

773

Wow.

774

Because that was when I was really

struggling and really, I was a number.

775

I liked just not being able to feel.

776

And I've spent 30 years trying to

figure out how to feel, and going to

777

therapy and , throwing all the spaghetti

at the wall because the generational

778

stuff, I was like, okay, the, let's

nip, like nip it in the bud here.

779

And I don't, I'm not

judgmental if people drink.

780

I don't think there's anything

wrong with a drink or two.

781

And that's just me.

782

But I do know that I have a tendency, and

if I let myself, I will drink too much.

783

And I don't let myself.

784

And I just don't.

785

I don't really have a friend group,

so it's just me and my husband.

786

And he's not a big drinker.

787

He has one or two, that's it.

788

So that's But yeah, so that

was several years ago, and

789

that was, yeah, that was dumb.

790

But- … it was, I got my book written.

791

Congratulations.

792

Ah.

793

Yeah what it takes, right?

794

Yeah.

795

. This has been super fun.

796

I feel like there's more topics I

wanna pull out of you, .. what else

797

do you have that you wanna share with

us, that you'd like to share with us?

798

Maybe another time.

799

Okay.

800

I'm just inviting myself again.

801

Please.

802

It's fun to have these conversations,

and hopefully s- it, it

803

resonates with someone out there.

804

No, I just think , just to add

on to what you s- were explaining

805

about your relationship with alcohol

and how you've worked it out, my

806

I'm on the same bandwagon as you.

807

I don't judge other people, and I

don't think drinking's a problem.

808

It's only a problem if it's a problem.

809

And so I always ask the question,

how is it working for you?

810

And you explained how it's

working for you, and that's cool.

811

And I explained how it's working for me.

812

And so everyone just, looking

at your drinking and ask that

813

question, and if it's working for

you, there's no problem, right?

814

And I say that all the ti- if I…

815

I don't ever wanna be in that

situation again where I wake up

816

and go, "Oh my God, what did I say?

817

Who did I hurt?

818

Who did I text?"

819

Now that we have texting, how

many divorces and fights are

820

probably caused by drunk texting?

821

Yeah.

822

Think, so I don't ever wanna put

myself in that situation again.

823

I'm over guilt and shame.

824

I spent many years letting go of

the guilt of, and shame for things

825

that were not even my fault.

826

And I'm like, why do I wanna

bring more of that on me?

827

I don't ever.

828

But you're right, you have to

ask, how is it working for you?

829

Because if you are feeling those

feelings, then it's worth at least

830

exploring or talking to someone.

831

And in the groups like you talked

about, everybody understands.

832

There's nothing I'm gonna say to you that

happened while I was drinking at a party

833

in college is probably gonna shock you.

834

It's- … it's just not.

835

People come to me and they're like,

"Oh my gosh, I just told you this

836

story and you didn't even flinch."

837

And I'm like It just, things happen.

838

Like I under- Yes … I don't judge.

839

When I look at the things that happened

with my mother when I was a child,

840

I don't even judge her for those.

841

I understand how sick , she was so

mentally ill, bless her heart, but she

842

was drinking to drown, and I get that.

843

I drank to drown for a long time.

844

And when you drink to drown,

you have to drink a lot.

845

Because when you just have

two, it doesn't drown the pain.

846

It ups the happy, but it

doesn't drown the pain.

847

So when I was at the heart of my drinking,

I had to get over that threshold.

848

I needed to get to where I felt nothing.

849

And that's a scary place to be because

by that point you are very unhealthy.

850

Yeah.

851

Yeah.

852

But- So it can feel like a

lot, but it's really doable.

853

Oh, yeah.

854

Yeah.

855

So sometimes it can feel like a lot

if you're in that space, but but just

856

saying yes to yourself is the first step.

857

And then how to get past that,

what's the first thing I need

858

to do- … in saying yes?

859

And you're right.

860

And s- stepping, making that first

commitment to I want to, me- knowing,

861

meaning I have to tell somebody

else is the absolute hardest part.

862

So if you need to run it by someone,

go run it by Colleen, run it by Tammy.

863

Run it by some- just have a, a shoulder

or somebody, a friend or whatever.

864

But in the meantime, talk to

yourself like your own best friend.

865

When you have that little inner critic

sitting on your shoulder, picture,

866

and it's telling you, "You suck.

867

You're no good.

868

You mess everything up.

869

You can't even do this right," and all

those things that are probably gonna

870

go through your head as you're trying

to make that decision, put yourself

871

in your own best friend's shoes.

872

And say, "If this was my best friend

coming to me and having all those

873

thoughts that are going through my head

right now, what would I say to them?"

874

And i- I always do that because our

inner critic is our subconscious.

875

It is all of the experiences and

pain that we didn't wanna deal with.

876

To me, that, at least in my experience.

877

So when that inner critic comes

at you, be its best friend.

878

And that will soften everything.

879

Yeah maybe not.

880

I don't know.

881

No you are, and I'm shaking my head

'cause it's a practice, and I need,

882

I'm, even though I'm where I'm at

now with my drinking, there's still

883

other areas of life where the inner

critic can rear its ugly head.

884

And so you're absolutely right, Tammy.

885

Those are, that's the best advice or

suggestion, is to talk to yourself like

886

you're talking to your best friend.

887

'Cause you're not gonna tell

your best friend, "You're never,

888

you're gonna suck at this speech.

889

Nobody's gonna like it."

890

You're gonna say, "You're gonna rock it.

891

You're gonna be the b-

they're gonna love you."

892

And it's just a easy flip.

893

Yeah.

894

If we can do it.

895

Yep, and I do.

896

I do, been doing NLP for many

years, so it's it's all reframing.

897

I have things where I've literally

sat, like I'll sit there with

898

something, an object, and pretend

it's the little six-year-old

899

Tammy and be like, "We got this.

900

I got you this time."

901

And it's just whatever you have to do.

902

But I think that's an easy…

903

You're right.

904

It's an easy kinda tweak just to

snip, I call it nip it in the bud.

905

The minute you have that thought,

just nip it in the bud and be

906

like, "Why would I say this to me?

907

I wouldn't say this to my best friend."

908

Flip it around.

909

Because yeah.

910

And then know that everybody just needs

to know that they are so worth any, any-

911

And anything good that they want, they're

worth it, worthy of it, yes, absolutely.

912

This has been super fun.

913

Thank you.

914

It has been super fun.

915

I know.

916

I feel like I could talk to you forever.

917

I'm still i- in awe of the fact that

you go on one of those big ships.

918

And yes, you're right, if you call

one of those big ships a boat in front

919

of the captain, he will take you out.

920

Yeah, I don't think I have,

honestly, 'cause I'm scared.

921

No, my…

922

Yeah, my dad was in the Navy,

and I used to be like, "What kind

923

of b- what boat were you on?"

924

He's like, "I was on a ship."

925

I was like, "Oh."

926

I s- I know.

927

My dad always is correcting me,

"Honey, it's not a boat, it's a ship."

928

Okay whatever.

929

It's a ship.

930

Yes.

931

It's big enough to put boats on.

932

Yes.

933

You can put boats on it, so

it's, that makes it a ship.

934

Yes.

935

But Colleen, before you leave, first

of all, I wanna say thank you so much.

936

Oh, you too … I want to let people

know where they can find your book, what

937

else you do if you take calls, coaching.

938

I'm not sure what else you do

in this realm, if anything.

939

But I want to know where they can find

your book and all that good stuff.

940

Okay, cool.

941

I do have a website, which is a

great place to go for everything.

942

It's called lifebeyondthebinge.com.

943

And I'm offering, which I would

like to offer to your listeners, I

944

have a self-guided journey workbook-

Oh … that I can send to you.

945

It's it's a PDF.

946

- It's also for sale on the website,

but for your guests it could

947

be free if they're interested.

948

And after, if they wanna fill out the

workbook, there's a free call with me

949

if they wanna talk over their guided

answers that they worked through.

950

I have a retreat coming up in Bali

951

marketed yet, but I know it seems like a

long ways away, but it will be here soon.

952

That's like eight months.

953

Yeah.

954

I had it scheduled in October, but

because of my commercial fishing

955

slowing down I thought I might miss

it, so I've had to push it out.

956

But I'm excited about that.

957

So do you mind if I ask a little

bit more about the retreat?

958

Sure.

959

Is it geared specifically towards

people that are struggling with a

960

relationship with alcohol, or is it…?

961

It's for women, and it's going to

be very small so it can be intimate.

962

It's geared around asking the

story beneath the behavior- Okay

963

because that's really my bottom line.

964

I don't really- Okay … my binge

drinking was the behavior I chose-

965

But I had a story beneath it.

966

So it's a retreat to,

it's called The Exhale.

967

So it's…

968

And I love Bali, it's a magical

place, so it is a destination.

969

It takes effort to get there,

and I'm transparent about that.

970

But once you're there, it's a

beautiful space for this kind of

971

work that we're gonna be doing.

972

There's gonna be some fun involved.

973

But basically it's for women to, who

are at a point in their life where

974

they might wanna rewrite their story.

975

They don't necessarily have to

rewrite the whole thing, but even

976

maybe finding out what is, who am I?

977

What has been my story, and where

might I just want it to begin to go?

978

You don't have to map

out your entire life.

979

But just the idea is to leave the retreat

with some solid forward motion, and then

980

we follow up later after the retreat

to see how it's progressing for you.

981

So it's yeah.

982

So that's…

983

So I can share when I get more information

with you if you like, Tammy, and- Yeah,

984

I definitely want to, and I'll send

out an email to everybody, because

985

everybody needs something like that.

986

I think especially in the world that I'm

in and the world that most of the people

987

that I work with are in we don't know

those qu- answers to those questions

988

sometimes, and that's where we're stuck.

989

We spend this whole time, this, we

spend our lives in this reactive

990

world based on the past, and we

forget who we are, that authentic

991

who I am underneath all of the ick.

992

Yes.

993

And I'm actually

interested in your retreat.

994

Oh, I love that.

995

And here's something else about it is

once I started, I don't know about your

996

listeners, but once I started investing

in me, like treating myself, that I'm

997

worthy to spend money on me, it's like

another, another thing in your bucket

998

of self-love and self-fulfilling.

999

So you don't have to do my

retreat, but I'm just saying

00:46:06,571 --> 00:46:08,201

treat yourself to a massage.

00:46:08,201 --> 00:46:11,391

Treat yourself to some self-care

that, we're all worth it.

00:46:11,501 --> 00:46:11,591

Absolutely.

00:46:11,591 --> 00:46:13,661

We deserve to be loved on.

00:46:14,001 --> 00:46:14,461

Yes.

00:46:14,771 --> 00:46:18,521

And every time that you don't

abandon yourself, that's why I'm

00:46:18,521 --> 00:46:20,351

so big into boundaries with people.

00:46:20,351 --> 00:46:25,011

Every time you say yes to yourself

or every time you say no to something

00:46:25,011 --> 00:46:27,531

else, you're saying yes to yourself.

00:46:27,541 --> 00:46:33,141

And that is how you grow your confidence,

and that is how you get back who you are.

00:46:33,141 --> 00:46:37,151

Like I'm a big proponent on if it

doesn't light you up, don't do it.

00:46:37,151 --> 00:46:38,051

I don't care what it is.

00:46:38,731 --> 00:46:38,821

Absolutely.

00:46:38,891 --> 00:46:39,271

Don't do it.

00:46:39,961 --> 00:46:43,511

We're gonna have to talk about this off

on the side, 'cause- Yeah … who knows?

00:46:43,941 --> 00:46:44,121

Absolutely.

00:46:44,121 --> 00:46:46,521

Maybe you'll wanna co-host

it with me or something.

00:46:46,531 --> 00:46:47,151

There you go.

00:46:47,151 --> 00:46:48,567

That sounds amazing.

00:46:48,567 --> 00:46:49,477

Sounds good.

00:46:49,487 --> 00:46:52,307

And then before you go- Oh,

yes … so I will put your links

00:46:52,307 --> 00:46:53,547

in the show notes and everything.

00:46:53,547 --> 00:46:56,917

So guys, if you're driving, if you're not,

don't wanna write down, just don't worry.

00:46:56,917 --> 00:46:58,287

I'll get you to the links for that.

00:46:58,557 --> 00:47:01,921

Take advantage of the- , free book?

00:47:02,181 --> 00:47:03,335

Free workbook yeah, there's free workbook.

00:47:03,605 --> 00:47:07,375

And then the call with Colleen,

because there is nothing more valuable,

00:47:07,375 --> 00:47:11,505

if you're out there listening, to

deal with somebody that has gone

00:47:11,525 --> 00:47:13,335

through what you're struggling with.

00:47:13,385 --> 00:47:18,015

You can go to any textbook therapist, any

textbook counselor, any textbook coach

00:47:18,205 --> 00:47:22,215

who has read all the books and done all

the things, but when you go to someone

00:47:22,215 --> 00:47:27,465

like Colleen that has struggled with binge

drinking and you're teetering on that

00:47:27,465 --> 00:47:29,635

gray area drinking, she's been there.

00:47:29,635 --> 00:47:31,105

She knows what you're feeling.

00:47:31,105 --> 00:47:35,175

She can literally have so much

empathy and help you so much.

00:47:35,475 --> 00:47:38,485

Transformation is just so much

faster when you go with someone

00:47:38,485 --> 00:47:39,605

that has lived experience.

00:47:39,605 --> 00:47:40,725

I truly believe that.

00:47:40,735 --> 00:47:43,395

So reach out for her free

offer, whatever it is.

00:47:43,555 --> 00:47:44,345

Get hold of her.

00:47:44,615 --> 00:47:48,305

I've only known her for one hour and

three minutes, and I already love her.

00:47:48,355 --> 00:47:52,485

So but for those of you that

are listening and, or for you,

00:47:52,525 --> 00:47:54,425

Colleen, I'm sorry, what…

00:47:54,445 --> 00:47:57,655

If you had to give the listeners

one last message, words of

00:47:57,975 --> 00:48:01,045

wisdom or piece of advice, what

would it be for the listeners?

00:48:03,559 --> 00:48:10,159

I guess it would be in this moment,

change is scary and that's normal.

00:48:11,119 --> 00:48:13,559

Fear is really normal in change.

00:48:13,829 --> 00:48:17,289

But if you have that inkling that

something's not right or something's

00:48:17,289 --> 00:48:24,029

not sitting in your behavior that you're

feeling you need to change just go for it.

00:48:24,209 --> 00:48:25,009

It's okay.

00:48:25,039 --> 00:48:25,739

We all…

00:48:26,779 --> 00:48:31,779

Those - of us who have gone through

it have survived, and we're here.

00:48:31,849 --> 00:48:40,069

And it's like Tammy, you mentioned,

it's just s- realizing that we are whole

00:48:40,079 --> 00:48:42,759

human beings that have a purpose in life.

00:48:42,819 --> 00:48:45,969

And when you start that process

of change, you might not believe

00:48:45,969 --> 00:48:47,959

it, but there is something.

00:48:47,979 --> 00:48:51,549

And once you discover it, your

life just becomes magical.

00:48:52,699 --> 00:48:56,799

So- I love that … I hope

that's helpful to somebody.

00:48:57,289 --> 00:48:58,299

Oh, I'm sure it will be.

00:48:58,439 --> 00:48:58,559

Thank you.

00:48:58,559 --> 00:48:58,609

That was my experience anyway.

00:48:58,609 --> 00:48:58,659

No, and I 100% agree.

00:48:58,659 --> 00:48:58,807

And I think I end my podcast

by saying, "You are, you're

00:48:58,807 --> 00:48:59,301

enough right here right now.

00:48:59,301 --> 00:49:01,369

You are way more than enough."

00:49:01,369 --> 00:49:03,139

I think that's how I end

00:49:09,289 --> 00:49:09,369

it.

00:49:09,379 --> 00:49:10,679

But you have to believe that.

00:49:11,019 --> 00:49:14,329

And- … and change and moving

forward, I truly believe you're

00:49:14,329 --> 00:49:16,439

either evolving or dissolving.

00:49:17,059 --> 00:49:17,522

Love it.

00:49:17,522 --> 00:49:18,229

So make a step.

00:49:18,499 --> 00:49:19,239

Make a step.

00:49:19,609 --> 00:49:20,379

That's awesome.

00:49:20,379 --> 00:49:22,459

You have some great one-liners, Tammy.

00:49:23,849 --> 00:49:25,339

Evolving or dissolving.

00:49:25,349 --> 00:49:26,649

That is so true.

00:49:26,649 --> 00:49:29,729

That's, what you're doing, so you

might as well be moving towards

00:49:29,759 --> 00:49:31,689

peace and joy and love and happiness.

00:49:32,069 --> 00:49:36,509

So you all have an amazingly blessed

day, and we will see you back soon.

00:49:37,649 --> 00:49:38,269

Bye.

00:49:38,489 --> 00:49:39,019

Bye.