Listen to the song

• YouTube - https://youtu.be/Gjsr6Siv41c
• Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/track/6OuUISbNW1tLkDCilb6OSX?si=f5f8facb463f4444
• Apple Music - https://music.apple.com/us/song/when-you-were-lovin-me/1838780486
• Amazon - https://music.amazon.com/albums/B0FQFWKL3F?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_DJ7aVn46RvgzAdUL8H5LMNxI6&trackAsin=B0FQFBDSL5

Other links

• Eric Benét - “True to Myself” versions
• https://youtu.be/IwtVWu59Yn4
• https://youtu.be/ieQx7VL3bNg
• https://youtu.be/rsn78b843DA

Key takeaways

• In this episode, Trist and Elaine dive into Neil Sedaka’s “When You Were Lovin’ Me,” which features distinct tempo and feel changes, transitioning between nostalgic blues-inspired sections and upbeat gospel-like segments, creating a dynamic storytelling experience
• Elaine and Trist further explore the deep sense of grief and wistfulness in the lyrics, highlighting themes of longing, loss, and the emotional juxtaposition of celebrating happy memories while grieving their absence
• In the mailbag section, Trist and Elaine discuss the creative value of artists releasing alternate versions of their songs, citing examples like Neil Sedaka and Mariah Carey, and emphasizing the artistic reinvention that can bring new life to familiar tracks

About us

Trist Curless is a Los Angeles-based vocalist, educator, and sound engineer. As a performer, Trist has toured worldwide as a co-founder of the pop-jazz vocal group m-pact and a 10 year member of the Grammy-award winning The Manhattan Transfer. In addition to these two vocal powerhouse groups, he’s also performed with Take 6, Bobby McFerrin, New York Voices, Vox Audio, Naturally 7, and The Swingle Singers. His latest venture, The LHR Project, is a new vocal group collective celebrating legendary jazz vocal group Lambert, Hendricks, and Ross.

As an audio engineer, Trist has toured nationally with several vocal groups and bands in a large variety of venues, working for Grammy award winners Pentatonix and Take 6, as well as prominent a cappella vocal groups Straight No Chaser, VoicePlay, and Accent.

Elaine Chao, M.Ed is a San Francisco Bay Area-based vocalist, multi-instrumentalist, vocal percussionist, and songwriter whose career spans a cappella, contemporary worship, and classical music. She has leveraged her training in classical and choral music over the course of her contemporary performance, including in orchestras for musical theatre and in sacred spaces. In addition to music, she also is a martial artist and published author. She currently leads a product management team at a major software company dedicated to creative expression. All statements in this podcast are her own and do not reflect the opinions of her employer.

Elaine: Hey, Trist!

Elaine: What do we have this week?

Trist: Oh, we have a good one this week.

Trist: This week we have a song from an artist who had two top ten hits

Trist: with the same song, almost fifteen years apart.

Elaine: Oh?

Elaine: Okay. Tell me more about this.

Trist: And in typical fashion, it doesn't really have anything to

Trist: do with the song.

Trist: I picked a different song, but

Trist: we're going to listen to Neil

Trist: Sedaka's "When You Were Loving

Trist: Me."

Elaine: Oh, okay.

Trist: Again. Also in Trist fashion,

Trist: there's the big hits that he

Trist: had, and this was not one of

Trist: them.

Trist: But I do think it's pretty fascinating that he had two hits

Trist: with this song, "Breaking Up is Hard to Do," kind of a doo-wop-y

Trist: version of it in the 60s.

Trist: And then in the late 70s, on the

Trist: same album that "You Were Lovin'

Trist: Me" comes from, he redid it in

Trist: kind of a loungy slow ballad

Trist: version.

Trist: So it's cool to have hits in

Trist: different decades, but with the

Trist: same song.

Trist: And as a songwriter, heck yeah, I can make even more money off

Trist: of the same song.

Trist: Good job, Neil Sedaka.

Elaine: Love it.

Elaine: All right.

Elaine: So before we pause, can you remind our listeners how we're

Elaine: listening to music as a part of The Musician's Loupe community?

Trist: Oh yes.

Trist: Especially with this great record.

Trist: There's some great players on this album, so you want to hear

Trist: it as good as possible, listening in the best listening

Trist: situation you can.

Trist: As I always say, we appreciate that you're joining us from your

Trist: walk, your run, your drive to the supermarket, whatever it is.

Trist: Sometimes you can't really

Trist: improve your listening

Trist: situation.

Trist: But if you happen to be in a position where you can take five

Trist: seconds and grab the nicer headphones or put it on the good

Trist: speakers, or get in a quiet place in your home where you can

Trist: listen to this music, that is the thing we're encouraging even

Trist: more than listening to us blabber on about it.

Elaine: Awesome.

Elaine: So we're going to go ahead and

Elaine: leave links to the song in the

Elaine: show notes and we'll be right

Elaine: back.

Elaine: All right.

Elaine: That was quite a trip.

Elaine: Holy cows.

Trist: Yeah. We like to mix it up here.

Elaine: So tell me a little bit more about the song.

Elaine: Why did you choose the song?

Trist: You know, like so many, this is just a song I've always liked.

Trist: I heard versions of this in different times in my life.

Trist: I think my parents had this record when I was growing up.

Trist: Because again, it had some other hits on it.

Trist: So this wasn't one of the hits, but I always liked this one with

Trist: the different feel changes.

Trist: it's kind of like two songs in one.

Trist: I guess I always knew why the changes were there, but, they've

Trist: come more into focus now that I've taken the time to listen to

Trist: it for this show.

Elaine: Well, tell me a little bit more about these changes.

Elaine: It was definitely something that

Elaine: I noticed and I have some

Elaine: thoughts about it, but I'm

Elaine: really interested in hearing

Elaine: where we're going to start out

Elaine: today.

Trist: I like the feel changes.

Trist: Especially when you're trying

Trist: for pop songs, you're trying to

Trist: have hits, which is probably why

Trist: this wasn't a hit, but you're

Trist: not doing these kind of changes

Trist: that frequently.

Trist: Every once in a while you'll

Trist: have the crazy 7 minute song

Trist: that was a big hit that had

Trist: seven different feel changes in

Trist: it.

Trist: It's just rarer that that stuff happens.

Trist: There's always formulaic kind of is where you get the hits.

Trist: But, now looking back, I love how the different feels happen.

Trist: Like when it goes to the upbeat, it's like a flashback in the

Trist: movie or in the TV show.

Trist: The flashback to when they were

Trist: together, how he's lamenting how

Trist: they're not.

Trist: But back then it was the happy.

Trist: So instead of just mentioning,

Trist: oh, remember, that was a good

Trist: time.

Trist: That was really happy.

Trist: No, he takes us there so we can experience how great it was.

Trist: And then back to remembering.

Trist: Yeah, that was really cool.

Trist: Don't you wish it was like that again?

Trist: I wish it so much that here we are.

Trist: Flashes back to another fun time

Trist: when we were at the circus or

Trist: whatever.

Trist: I think the other thing that I

Trist: like about, it's the feeling and

Trist: the sound and lots of the

Trist: musical idioms of gospel music

Trist: without being religious

Trist: whatsoever.

Trist: It's just a happy, fun time.

Trist: But a lot of the sound obviously

Trist: makes you think of like gospel

Trist: church music.

Trist: There's, there's zero church or

Trist: religious references whatsoever

Trist: in

Elaine: Mhm.

Trist: the lyric and the meaning and the context.

Trist: Yet there's that feeling that he uses for the happiness to take

Trist: us to the happy place.

Trist: I find that interesting.

Elaine: I also was listening to the two different themes.

Elaine: And one of the things I looked

Elaine: at was tempo, just trying to tap

Elaine: out.

Elaine: Okay, where is this tempo?

Elaine: And so the first theme, this kind of like medium tempo.

Elaine: It's about 68 beats per minute.

Elaine: So not too fast, not too slow.

Elaine: And then it went into what I

Elaine: just denoted like Black church

Elaine: experience, right?

Elaine: Like full with tambourine.

Elaine: It's got the choir going.

Elaine: It's got the call and response, which I felt

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: like was a very, very like Black church / gospel feel to it.

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: And also a lot of horns, which I was like, oh,

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: okay.

Elaine: Interesting.

Elaine: Got the horns going on here.

Elaine: And then it slowed down.

Elaine: So it went back to the first theme and it slowed even slower

Elaine: than the initial bit.

Elaine: So the first bit was 68, this

Elaine: went back down to 60 or 62, And

Elaine: then it went back up to about

Elaine: 112.

Elaine: And so there's this feeling of going back and forth.

Elaine: It's not exactly half time.

Elaine: It's a little bit more feeling than that, but what I wrote down

Elaine: for the theme one.

Elaine: There was a sense of blues.

Elaine: It wasn't really a full blues kind of feel to it.

Elaine: But for me, it had a little bit of that lamentation in it that

Elaine: you were talking about.

Elaine: Maybe a little bit more of a nostalgic feeling that was

Elaine: happening in that theme one.

Elaine: The second time through theme one, I was like, man, it's got a

Elaine: tuba going on in there.

Elaine: It's got some brass going on.

Elaine: And I was like, oh, interesting.

Trist: Bass trombone, bass

Elaine: Oh, bass

Trist: trombone,

Elaine: trombone.

Trist: bass

Elaine: Okay.

Trist: trombone.

Trist: I do love that.

Trist: Just a big splat.

Trist: Wahhhhh.

Trist: Love- Yeah.

Trist: One of the loudest bass trombones you'll hear in a song.

Trist: Man, love it.

Trist: Yes.

Trist: Yeah, it kind of introduces the new section again.

Trist: When it goes back, it's just like, "Wahhh."

Trist: It's like the signal that, okay,

Trist: we're going back to this gospel

Trist: feel.

Elaine: Well, the interesting thing to me about the second theme, and

Elaine: especially as it returned the second time I started to write

Elaine: down the words New Orleans,

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: which began to give maybe a slightly different feel to me,

Elaine: because there are different types of celebrations in like

Elaine: New Orleans music.

Elaine: And one of them is actually in the context of a funeral.

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: And so the funeral rites also are very peppy, right?

Elaine: It's like a

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: celebration of life as a part of the grieving process.

Trist: Sure.

Elaine: And I thought that given the

Elaine: lyrics, which I do want to go

Elaine: into, it was a very interesting

Elaine: juxtaposition between them

Elaine: because even in the happy times,

Elaine: where you were noting as the up

Elaine: tempo areas, it did say, "I

Elaine: can't help but thinking about

Elaine: you back when you were loving

Elaine: me."

Elaine: And

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: so in some ways, there's that

Elaine: sense of wistfulness that

Elaine: happens even in these up tempo

Elaine: sections.

Elaine: And one other thing that I wanted to note here was there

Elaine: was an interesting break going from the first kind of up tempo

Elaine: section into the slow section in, you know, trying to figure

Elaine: out, oh, how are you going to go from this, this brighter theme

Elaine: into the slower theme?

Elaine: There's literally a stop and then it

Trist: Right.

Elaine: starts again.

Elaine: And is that something that

Elaine: you've heard before in other

Elaine: songs?

Trist: You know, I think it calls a bit

Trist: to again, the difference in

Trist: recording style, if you were to

Trist: do this now would be all in the

Trist: digital workspace where you

Trist: work, you would kind of map out

Trist: the times.

Trist: And I have a feeling I wouldn't like it as much because I like

Trist: how you said the second time it goes down to the slower tempo.

Trist: It's not quite the same.

Trist: If you're mapping that out now ahead of time, you would go back

Trist: to the same tempo because you go, oh, let's go back down to

Trist: the slow tempo.

Trist: You can manipulate it as such to have a more real feeling.

Trist: But because that wasn't the case

Trist: then, I have a feeling these

Trist: musicians were live in the

Trist: studio.

Trist: I don't know, but it feels like

Trist: because of that, where it was

Trist: like, no, someone's just

Trist: conducting.

Trist: And it was going by the feel of it, by how it felt, how fast

Trist: should we go?

Trist: How slow should it back down to?

Trist: And everyone is so good.

Trist: The band on this, I mean, Steve

Trist: Cropper, Dean Parks, Leland

Trist: Sklar, David Foster, Chuck

Trist: Findley, some of these names my

Trist: music heads out there will know,

Trist: big wigs that have played on

Trist: hundreds and thousands of

Trist: records.

Trist: So, definitely players that

Trist: could really do it and really

Trist: deal with the time changes

Trist: without having to punch in a

Trist: lot, or just do the rhythm

Trist: tracks, etc.. I have a feeling

Trist: this is probably all done kind

Trist: of a live in studio mostly is my

Trist: guess.

Elaine: And

Trist: Uh,

Elaine: it's

Trist: yeah.

Elaine: so well mixed though.

Elaine: For something like that, I felt like nothing

Trist: Yeah.

Elaine: really overwhelmed, which I

Elaine: think is super hard to do,

Elaine: especially if you're talking

Elaine: about a more live scenario like

Elaine: this, where you're talking about

Elaine: lots of different, very loud

Elaine: instruments in the same room

Elaine: together.

Elaine: And I was just thinking about

Elaine: the mix and how it just seemed

Elaine: very natural.

Elaine: It seemed very well balanced.

Elaine: I would say that it was mixed with more foundation.

Elaine: So, a really nice fat bottom.

Elaine: It had some really nice kind of like mid to low tones, very

Elaine: different than I'd say your classic 1960s, even 1970s.

Elaine: Like, I think if you hear some

Elaine: of the Tower of Power stuff

Elaine: happening in the 1970s, it

Elaine: doesn't have the same kind of

Elaine: foundation as this particular

Elaine: song had.

Elaine: So yeah, I would love to hear some of your thoughts about the

Elaine: mix on this one.

Trist: Oh, yeah.

Trist: I mean, it just sounds great.

Trist: And now that I'm seeing it, I'm realizing that these people

Trist: played on it.

Trist: It's no surprise.

Trist: And probably with his success.

Trist: And by this time he was a staple in music and entertainment.

Trist: And, someone who's has a good

Trist: record label, going to have a

Trist: good support team, going to have

Trist: great engineers.

Trist: So it doesn't surprise me at all that it sounds so good and has

Trist: held up over the years.

Trist: It looks like it was on Rocket, which is, I believe, Elton

Trist: John's label, which also doesn't surprise me that he appears on

Trist: this album as well.

Trist: So that makes sense.

Elaine: Hm. Really interesting.

Elaine: So let's switch gears and talk a bit about the lyrics because

Elaine: there's a lot here.

Elaine: What do you see in the lyrics

Elaine: that you'd like to call out for

Elaine: us?

Trist: Mostly what we've already said.

Trist: It works in the lyrics too.

Trist: There's the reminiscin' and then

Trist: it kind of takes you to the

Trist: place.

Trist: Like these are the things that you did kind of when it moves to

Trist: the gospel feel.

Trist: These are the ways in which you made life better.

Trist: Things were better back then for us.

Trist: So yeah, I like that the lyrics

Trist: represent the change again,

Trist: reminiscing and then kind of

Trist: going there.

Elaine: I wanted to add to that a little bit because the verses are

Elaine: really easy to skip over, but I think it really sets the tone

Elaine: for the rest of the song.

Elaine: So thinking about verse one, you're talking about a birthday

Elaine: and he talks in a way that really anchors us in time.

Elaine: There's this moment where it is

Elaine: a passing of some kind of thing

Elaine: that he remembers, which is this

Elaine: birthday.

Elaine: But he does refer to the fact that this person is in his past.

Elaine: And so there's that anchoring in the first verse.

Elaine: And then in the second verse, he talks about how he's still

Elaine: pining and longing for this person because he's talking

Elaine: about "Just like dust that's in a room / I'm still expecting

Elaine: that I'll see you very soon."

Elaine: And so there's a sense of like, hey, I'm just hanging out here

Elaine: waiting for you.

Elaine: And at the same time, he comes

Elaine: to this understanding, I should

Elaine: have known better than to know

Elaine: that you were going to come

Elaine: back.

Elaine: And

Trist: Right.

Elaine: it was interesting because in the first verse, it ends that

Elaine: first verse of, "happier moments when you were loving me."

Elaine: So he's unhappy now and he was happier before.

Elaine: And in verse two, he's talking

Elaine: about like, "gone are the good

Elaine: times."

Elaine: So he's grieving the good times.

Elaine: "When you were loving me."

Elaine: And so the chorus then brings us into this interesting thing

Elaine: because he's talking about how this person has made him feel.

Elaine: But the last three lines were

Elaine: really interesting to me because

Elaine: this is where the twist is

Elaine: happening.

Elaine: "You couldn't help me see / of all the stuff that you've done

Elaine: for me / that there would be a time when I'd want to forget /

Elaine: that you were

Trist: Right?

Elaine: loving me."

Elaine: And

Trist: Right.

Elaine: so there's a sense of, it hurts so bad that I want to forget

Elaine: that you loved

Trist: Yeah.

Elaine: me.

Trist: How

Elaine: And

Trist: good it

Elaine: so

Trist: was.

Elaine: yeah.

Trist: Yeah.

Elaine: And so I just felt like there was this very deep sense of

Elaine: grief in all of these lyrics.

Elaine: And so when we got into the

Elaine: gospel segment, it's just like,

Elaine: okay, cool.

Elaine: You have dancing.

Elaine: You've got all the stuff that this person has said.

Elaine: It's been like, so happy.

Elaine: I can't help but think about you back when you were loving me.

Elaine: And that just adds to the sense

Elaine: of wistfulness, of loss that

Elaine: comes in, which I think, maybe

Elaine: that's why I ended up in the New

Elaine: Orleans funeral grieving,

Elaine: because in some ways it's like I

Elaine: am only able to grieve by

Elaine: celebrating, which I felt like

Elaine: was a very particular, cultural

Elaine: experience that maybe I don't

Elaine: personally understand, but was

Elaine: interesting for me to think

Elaine: through.

Trist: Yeah, I think to close our

Trist: hitting on the lyrics, I'm

Trist: pretty sure this marks the first

Trist: song we've had that talks about

Trist: hot cakes.

Trist: So we've got that going for us.

Elaine: Yeah, totally.

Elaine: So before we wrap up here, is there anything else that you

Elaine: want to add?

Trist: Yep. I think that's it.

Trist: I mean, after hotcakes, nowhere else to go but there.

Trist: Oh, you know where we can go after there?

Trist: To the mailbag.

Trist: To the mailbag.

Trist: Go to the mailbag.

Elaine: That's right.

Elaine: To the Mailbag.

Trist: The mailbag.

Trist: This is the place we really want to hear from you.

Trist: Did we cover a song that is

Trist: really near and dear to your

Trist: heart?

Trist: There's another version of it we should hear.

Trist: Is there some information that's really cool or a cool anecdote

Trist: you might have maybe about hearing this live sometime?

Trist: Or really actually, maybe it's

Trist: just a song that you've always

Trist: hated and we made you hate it

Trist: even more.

Trist: Whatever it is, we'd like to hear from you.

Trist: So how can people let us know their thoughts?

Elaine: So definitely feel free to email us at themusiciansloupe, that's

Elaine: L-O-U-P-E at gmail.com, or you can reach out to us via

Elaine: Instagram or Threads.

Elaine: That is @themusiciansloupe.

Elaine: And speaking of Threads, this

Elaine: week's mailbag is sourced from

Elaine: Threads.

Elaine: It is from a user named Wolf Lanier from January of 2026.

Elaine: And the question is, "How do you all feel about artists putting

Elaine: out multiple alternate versions of the same song?

Elaine: Because I personally love making multiple versions."

Trist: Oh, man.

Trist: Yeah, I love it.

Trist: Well, it's probably the jazzer in me, right?

Trist: Like one of the tenets of jazz music is the fact that there are

Trist: the standard songs that are played, often largely coming

Trist: from shows, a great American songbook, classic songs.

Trist: And so you go hear some jazz

Trist: band play trio, quartet,

Trist: whatever, and they might do 10

Trist: songs and you've heard all of

Trist: the songs before, but that's the

Trist: magic is this is a song that I

Trist: know.

Trist: But now I'm going to hear it in

Trist: a way that I've never heard it

Trist: before, because these people are

Trist: going to create it in the

Trist: moment.

Trist: So I think the essence of that, variation like, oh, I love this

Trist: song and now you're going to do this other thing to it.

Trist: Even back in most of my classical music listening, when

Trist: I had to do that in school, I liked the theme and variations.

Trist: Those are my favorites.

Trist: It took me a while to realize,

Trist: "Well, that's because I'm such a

Trist: jazz fanatic."

Trist: I like hearing the same thing,

Trist: but then hearing the varieties

Trist: of it.

Trist: So yeah, I'll tend to like a

Trist: particular version more than

Trist: other.

Trist: But I like when people put out

Trist: alternate versions of the same

Trist: song, even like we just talked

Trist: about with Neil Sedaka, fifteen

Trist: years later, had another hit

Trist: with his same song with a

Trist: totally different arrangement of

Trist: it.

Elaine: Yeah, I was just thinking about a band that I was introduced to.

Elaine: I don't know, twenty years ago called Moxy Früvous like

Elaine: Canadian indie band.

Elaine: And they did, a couple of their

Elaine: songs in a couple of different

Elaine: ways.

Elaine: And one of them was called the

Elaine: King of Spain, which was this

Elaine: very fun, kind of like pop

Elaine: thing.

Elaine: And then they did a grunge... it wasn't even a grunge version.

Elaine: It was just a really crunchy dark version of it that I

Elaine: thought was absolutely hilarious on a live version of that.

Elaine: And so I think that there is something that is very magical

Elaine: about reinventing something that someone knows very, very well.

Elaine: And in the case of Moxy Früvous, this was a band that had such a

Elaine: following that people would memorize the lyrics and sing

Elaine: along with the band.

Elaine: And so to hear a complete reinvention of this, I think was

Elaine: probably something very magical for the audience.

Trist: I think this also creeps into,

Trist: when someone does remixes of a

Trist: song, maybe the band doesn't

Trist: necessarily do it, but they

Trist: approve.

Trist: Oh yeah.

Trist: You're going to do a remix.

Trist: So, the remixer through the artist or the label has access

Trist: to the actual tracking, so you can take out a particular thing

Trist: and reharmonize, etc.. So I mean, a lot of times, frankly,

Trist: the artistic musical vision of that never satisfies me.

Trist: It's like, oh man, they didn't, they didn't have access.

Trist: They just used the regular recording and they decided to

Trist: put this other baseline while those chords are playing on the

Trist: original and it doesn't match.

Trist: And these notes clash, and my music brain just isn't happy

Trist: with that kind of stuff.

Trist: But when they can get in there

Trist: and take out the things and

Trist: recreate musically some hit song

Trist: that you knew, I always like

Trist: when that's done musically, even

Trist: if oftentimes I like the

Trist: original better.

Trist: I love just the creativity of the remixes.

Trist: So when a remix is just, I'm going to speed it up a little

Trist: bit and add four on the floor.

Trist: Well, that's not that creative to me.

Trist: But if you completely re sing them...

Trist: Total tangent, but Mariah

Trist: Carey's biggest hits over the

Trist: years have had remixes where

Trist: instead of just taking the

Trist: elements, it's just resung

Trist: altogether.

Trist: "Remix" is not even a good term for it.

Trist: It's like a reinvention or rerecording.

Trist: Her lead vocal is new and different.

Trist: The background singers are different, the remixer programs

Trist: all different stuff for it.

Trist: And they are these new magical creations.

Trist: Love it, love it, love it.

Elaine: I think you bring up a really

Elaine: interesting point having to do

Elaine: with covers.

Elaine: And I think that there are covers where the song is

Elaine: completely reinvented, and that is something that the purists

Elaine: will be angry about, but everyone else will be like, oh,

Elaine: my mind is now blown.

Elaine: I think also there is a sense of the artists reinventing

Elaine: themselves and reinventing their own work, which probably is more

Elaine: along the lines of what Mariah Carey is doing that you just

Elaine: mentioned is reinventing her own songs in a different way that we

Elaine: haven't heard it before.

Elaine: Is that something that we have heard other people do as well?

Trist: Yeah, actually another artist that'll probably make an

Trist: appearance here someday.

Trist: I'm just trying to decide which song to do.

Trist: Artist name Eric Benét, amazing

Elaine: Mm.

Trist: singer, songwriter.

Trist: And, especially on his first

Trist: album when he had the record

Trist: label money to put out a CD

Trist: single that had like five,

Trist: remixes.

Trist: Instead of just the normal, oh, this one again, it's just got a

Trist: little different beat to it, but it's all the same.

Trist: He had these drastically different- This might be a good

Trist: candidate for the show notes.

Trist: So maybe check out the show notes.

Trist: We can put some links to some differences here.

Trist: And here are the originals, and here are the remixes, the

Trist: alternate versions of the tunes.

Trist: Always loved that.

Trist: In the group m-pact that I sang

Trist: in for so long, a cappella

Trist: group.

Trist: Well, we would run into the problem.

Trist: Sometimes we would make a recording and on the album

Trist: there'd be all these parts.

Trist: And then we would be faced with trying to cover live with just

Trist: five people and no band.

Trist: We would have five people trying

Trist: to cover ourselves from our own

Trist: album that we wanted to sing for

Trist: people live.

Trist: Sometimes it would just be

Trist: whittling it down and getting

Trist: the essence of it and then just,

Trist: okay, well, that's as good as we

Trist: can do.

Trist: And there was one song at least where we just did a completely

Trist: different version because there wasn't enough harmony parts and

Trist: it needed a groove.

Trist: So if we had one of the people doing vocal percussion, then we

Trist: were missing a chord tone.

Trist: And if we had the chord tone, it

Trist: didn't have the groove that we

Trist: wanted.

Trist: So instead of just doing a

Trist: version of the song that we

Trist: weren't happy with, we just

Trist: rearranged it, did a completely

Trist: different version.

Trist: And people who knew the album, they recognized the song

Trist: recognize the lyrics.

Trist: It was like the acoustic version.

Trist: Obviously, even though we were a cappella,

Trist: it was always acoustic.

Trist: But

Trist: you know, if we were a regular

Trist: band, this would have been

Trist: the stripped down acoustic version

Trist: of it that we had to do live.

Trist: Anyway,

Trist: we lived that a little bit in that group where we were trying

Trist: to cover ourselves. A

Trist: lot of times we had to come up with alternate versions. And

Trist: usually when the audience knew

Trist: the original, it always got cool

Trist: reactions. Like

Trist: halfway through the first little part of the verse, you'd literally

Trist: see the faces go, oh, this is that song. That

Trist: was always fun.

Elaine: I love thinking about these reinventions of songs.

Elaine: I also think just reflecting on the nature of a cappella,

Elaine: because for the most part, a lot of it is very scripted because

Elaine: in order for people to have all of these voices singing

Elaine: together, you basically need to script almost everything.

Elaine: It is a lot harder to do in a cappella, because you have to

Elaine: rememorize everything instead of doing it with instruments.

Elaine: And I feel like as an instrumentalist, that is one of

Elaine: the easiest things I can do.

Elaine: It's like, okay, we got a new arrangement.

Elaine: Cool.

Elaine: You know, between one week and

Elaine: another, we can completely pick

Elaine: up a new arrangement, and it is

Elaine: a lot harder to nail in a

Elaine: cappella.

Trist: Well, right, yeah.

Trist: Because you need to arrange

Trist: who's singing what parts on the

Trist: chords.

Trist: If you have a solo guitar record, if you're a singer

Trist: songwriter and you play a certain set of chords that you

Trist: sing, and then at the gig you want to play different chords,

Trist: you just decide to play different chords, and then you

Trist: can do it however you want.

Elaine: But

Trist: Um,

Elaine: even with a band,

Trist: yeah,

Elaine: right, it's a lot easier.

Trist: yeah, even with the band.

Trist: But yeah, like we can't just

Trist: decide the night at the

Trist: soundcheck.

Trist: Oh, tonight let's do this minor

Trist: and then let's modulate up a

Trist: third on the bridge where we

Trist: normally just modulate up a half

Trist: step.

Trist: Okay, See you there tonight.

Trist: Like you can't just say that and push some buttons and make it

Trist: happen or strum some chords.

Trist: You could do it and you could do it quickly if you're good at it,

Trist: but it takes a minute to actually redo and assign parts.

Trist: And that is something about that that's

Elaine: Yeah,

Trist: harder

Elaine: it is

Trist: to

Elaine: interesting

Trist: do.

Elaine: to think about, how things just

Elaine: are different in different types

Elaine: of media.

Trist: Yeah, we just had to figure out a way that would work for us.

Trist: You know, adapt and survive.

Elaine: Awesome.

Elaine: Well, any last thoughts before we close out today?

Trist: That's it.

Trist: Hope you liked this song.

Trist: Neil Sedaka passed away not too

Trist: terribly long ago, and his

Trist: passing made me think of this

Trist: song, made me think of the hits,

Trist: but I've just always loved this

Trist: one.

Elaine: Awesome.

Elaine: Well, thank you for bringing it to us.

Elaine: And best thoughts to Neil Sedaka's friends and family and

Elaine: those who remember him fondly.

Trist: If you were a Neil Sedaka fan or, you know someone who is you

Trist: want to send them this episode.

Trist: Or if any of the episodes strike you as, there's a song or a

Trist: topic that we cover, maybe even in the mailbag that we cover a

Trist: topic maybe a friend of yours might be interested in.

Trist: Please pass it along.

Trist: Spread the word.

Trist: Write your friends and let them know about this.

Trist: Share these podcasts and help us grow the audience.

Trist: Rate and review, please.

Trist: We love the feedback.

Trist: Appreciate it.

Elaine: One hundred percent.

Elaine: And with that, we will see you next week.

Trist: See ya.

Elaine: Nailed it.

Trist: Nailed it.

Elaine: I should probably not do this while I'm pouring tea.

Trist: Oh, what's her name, like the

Trist: only pop star of the last like

Trist: five years.

Elaine: I can say this.

Trist: I say that way better.

Elaine: Remind me what hot cakes are?

Trist: Pancakes.

Elaine: Oh, okay.