Shownotes
High-achieving women don’t burn out because they “lack discipline.” They burn out because their nervous system is stuck in survival mode.
In this episode, I’m joined by Julie Hagen (former attorney turned psychedelic facilitator + integration expert) to unpack why microdosing and macrodosing can feel life-changing for some people — and unsettling for others. We talk about the real differentiator: safety, nervous system regulation, and integration (not hype, not escapism, not “just have a ceremony and hope for the best”).
You’ll hear:
- Why some people feel calmer, clearer, more creative… and why others feel anxious or scattered
- The truth about set + setting (and why it changes outcomes)
- What “integration” actually looks like after a journey
- When microdosing may not be a fit (and why that’s not a failure)
- How intention + grounded support can create sustainable change
✅ Want to know if microdosing is for you? Take Julie’s 2-minute quiz here: Quiz
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Grab a free Client Acquisition Audit and I’ll show you exactly where your message, offer, and CTA are leaking conversions—and the 3 fixes to turn your podcast/Substack into a client pipeline.
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This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
Podtrac - https://analytics.podtrac.com/privacy-policy-gdrp
Transcripts
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: High-achieving women don't burn out because they lack discipline or mindset. They burn out because their nervous system is stuck in survival mode. And there's one overlooked reason why microdosing and macrodosing only works for some people.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: While others feel worse afterwards, we will share how to know if it will work for you here shortly. Hi, and welcome to the You World Order Showcase Podcast, where we feature life, health, transformational coaches and spiritual entrepreneurs stepping up to be the change they seek in the world. I'm your host, Jill Hart, the Coach's Alchemist, on a mission to empower coaches and entrepreneurs to amplify their voice, monetize their mission, and get visible
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And start attracting… if you're ready to start attracting premium clients without chasing algorithms or hunting people down like a banshee on a mission, head over to Coachesalchemist.com and schedule your free client acquisition audit. It's the first step to building a business where your clients seek you out rather than you having to hunt them down. Today, we are chatting with Julie Cyvonne
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Julie is a former attorney turned psychedelic facilitator and integration expert who helps high-achieving women use micro and macro dosing to regulate their nervous systems.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: reduce anxiety and create sustainable success. Drawing on her background in law, neuroscience, and thousands of hours of plant medicine facilitation, she blends intentional dosing with grounded integration practices so transformation becomes safe, measurable, and lasting, without chaos, hype, or dependency on stimulants or medication. Welcome to the show, Julie. It's great to have you with us.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: Hey, thank you so much for having me, I'm excited to just be here today and have this conversation.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Me too, I'm… I'm super interested in what you're doing. But let me ask you the big question first. What's the…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: In your opinion, what's the most significant thing, in your opinion, as individuals we can do to make an impact on how the world is going?
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: You know, I really… I'm an ex-attorney, right? And so, when I decided to go to law school, I thought, sort of naively, that that was going to help me change the world.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: What I know now is that when anyone enters the legal process, they're never going to feel whole again. No one's ever going to be 100% happy with that outcome, whether we're looking at a criminal proceeding, a civil proceeding, a class action lawsuit, right? So…
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: What I see from the work that I do today is that people genuinely feel happier, healthier, more loving, more compassionate, kind, when they leave this work, and that affects the communities they're in. That affects their partners, their children, the people they see at the grocery store, and that the ripple effect is real. So I truly believe if you want to make a difference, start with yourself. Start with yourself and focus on becoming
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: The version of you who you want to be, and see how that impacts the people around you.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And you help people with that. You help them move from this place where their nervous system is all tied up in knots, and they're anxious about life in general, because that's how the system is set up, to make us fearful and full of anxiety, and…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: There's different… there's different flavors out there for which kind of anxiety you wish to feel, or fear you wish to embrace.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I think what you're doing helps people move out of that, or through that into a space where they can just own themselves. Is that…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: A fair way to phrase it, or do you have a different way that you wanted to discuss it?
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: You know, I, people, I think, sometimes… they have a lot of opinions about the fact that I used to be an attorney, right? And, one thing for me that I learned the hard way being an attorney is that the legal process takes so much time as well. No… not only is no one going to walk away feeling 100%, but it's a very protracted process, like, there's tons of time that they give each side for filings and deadlines, etc.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: And, for someone who feels that she's a little bit impatient, that was really hard to see for clients with people that I was working with.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: But what I love so much about this work that I do now is, and maybe this is naive as well, but I truly feel like I am making the world a better place simply by helping people feel happier, and what's so beautiful about psychedelics is that they are fast, and that they're paired with integration. It is an integr… it is a sustainable method of shifting your overall state of being. I always do intro and exit surveys with the people that I work with, and as an average, people feel 40%
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: better at the end of our processes together. So that, to me, is huge, and something that's significant and lasting, you know, 6 months, a year down the line.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Interesting. So, when we talk about psychedelics, are we talking about, like, mushrooms? Are we talking about something different, or a combination of things? I'm…
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: I'm really naive.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: I mean, psychedelics refer to a whole host of things, right? Everything from mushrooms to ayahuasca. I work with psilocybin, so mushrooms, and LSD, but you know, there are other people who obviously facilitate with ayahuasca, San Pedro, Wachuma, peyote, so all within, like, a family together, but I only work with psilocybin and LSD.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Okay, and are… are you… Would you loosely consider yourself, like, a shaman? Or…
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: I actually hate that word. I find it very patronizing. I would never culturally appropriate someone else's, true, like, indigenous practice. That's actually a big thing that I have with, like, white people like myself, who facilitate plant medicine.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: It just really rubs me the wrong way when I see people call themselves shamans on the internet, who clearly have no Indigenous roots.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I appreciate that part of it, but just in terms of, like, training, what is your background in it? I mean, why should people trust you to…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: To facilitate this journey with them.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: So I started off, and at the foundation of all of my work is my coaching certification. I am ICF certified, and I still use the tools of transformation in psychedelics, because what most people don't realize is, okay, so a lot of people
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: are coaches, right? And they've probably gone through great coaching, programs. That's amazing. For people who struggle with ADHD, anxiety, depression, OCD addiction, what we see from brain scans is that they have low neuromodulation. They have… a lot of them have low neuroplasticity, meaning that they can be doing really great work. They can be going to therapy, or working with a coach, or taking Prozac, right? But…
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: their… their brain, it's almost like there's not a lot of spark going on. And I don't mean that they're dumb in any way, because that was something that I really suffered with as someone who really dealt with a lot of pervasive and long-term anxiety and depression. There was just low neuromodulation, so I felt like I was doing all the things, I was listening to the podcast, reading the books, but I wasn't seeing the change.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: What I needed was a little more gas in the fire. So what psychedelics do is they promote more neuroplasticity, more neuroblodulation, and then the work that you're doing becomes more effective all around. So at the core of all of my work is still tools of transformation. A psychedelic facilitator refers to someone who can safely administer psychedelics, someone who understands dosage, contraindication, the potential for aberration. So that was a separate,
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: you know, training that I pursued, that was separate from my coaching. So I have worked with Indigenous tribes, in Mexico, and I've learned their practices, but to me, a shaman is a title that can only be held by someone who comes from that lineage, and although I may know things, I am not a shaman. I am not immersed in their culture, I did not grow up with it, and I don't have any…
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: I mean, it's like that one girl, right, who was running the, NAACP, and then it turns out she was not black? Like, that… to me, it gives me the same level of ick.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Okay.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So… You have the training and skills that were provided by people that have
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: generations of information about how to safely lead somebody through this process. And you add into it that you have coaching.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: tools, to help them integrate it. Is that how it's working for you?
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: Yeah, definitely coaching for integration. I would say the training that I have with, Indigenous communities more respects, like, the spiritual and the energetic component of working with plant medicine, and then the training for, like, psychedelic facilitation, so understanding dosage and the aberrations and the contraindications, and what's working, what's happening at a functional level in our brain, that's more like the facilitation piece, and that's really more where safety concerns come in.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: Right, versus, like, understanding emotionally, energetically, and spiritually what's happening. I would say that's more with, like, the Indigenous communities. Does that make sense?
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It makes total sense. It's actually… it feels like you're taking something that's
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: A lot of people will come at from a woo-woo perspective, and making it more grounded, and almost…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: medicinal. I, like…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It… you're using it as a tool rather than as a spiritual experience, and some people come to psychedelics to have a spiritual experience, whereas it sounds to me like you're using it to, activate parts of the brain that have… are…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: are not functioning the way that they were intended to function, that it just enhances your ability to
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Grow your neural pathways, and to have more…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: battery power, I guess, to light that spark up and get it flame… fan the flames of your brain power.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: Yeah, certainly adding a little bit more juice to the juice box, and it's both. It's definitely a spiritual experience, especially for my retreats, right, where I do facilitate a larger dose. I don't think anyone who's ever worked with me, either in the macro and the micro level, would say that I'm clinical, although I am a really grounded approach to bringing both the science and the spirituality of this particular practice, whereas I would agree with you totally, like, most people in this space are coming at it purely from a spiritual perspective.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: and don't really understand the underlying neurological impacts and effects, and I think a lot of people want to be able to do that, and why I'm sort of a differentiator in the space.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, I like that a lot, because…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It never really occurred to me before talking to you that That it has…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: it has a long-term effect. We know that, you know, LSD,
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: those of us from, like, the 60s. We know that LSD can have a long-lasting impact on your brain function, but if you are working with somebody who's helping you understand what's happening, I think that the long-term outcome is better.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Does that make sense?
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: I think a lot of people want to understand how does it work, right? And at the end of the day, what that points to is a greater sense of safety, and what the research shows us is that when we control for two things called set and setting, meaning the environment you're in when you take a psychedelic substance, and the mindset that you have when you enter that
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: you know, altered state, that non-ordinary state of consciousness, you're going to have a better effect, you're going to have a better quote-unquote trip. And so, I always give at my retreats, for example, what I like to call flight instructions. You know, things that… I want everyone to basically voice their fears before we go into it. I want to let them know what they may experience and how best to approach it. And what I have heard resoundingly is that my flight instructions are actually the thing that allows
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: people to have the best experience, because they say, I knew what I was going to do if this were to come up for me. I wasn't afraid going into the journey, and psychedelics are one of the most digestible substance, not only from, like, your environment, but also from yourself. So if you have a lot of fear and panic entering the experience, guess what you're going to take into your trip? Fear and panic. And if I can mitigate that, if I can create safety for you, and assurance.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: That, you know, there is… there is an expert in the room, and that no matter what, you are going to be good, you're gonna enter and exit this process safely and wholly, then you're gonna have a good trip. And it's… it's an outrageous guarantee. It's like, the research says 98%, basically, if you guarantee set and setting, you're not gonna have a bad trip.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That's… that's pretty astonishing, you know.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: having
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: known many people who've experimented on their own and had all kinds of experiences. Do you do coaching beforehand? Like, I know you say you have the trip preparation part. Is it kind of extensive? Is it fast?
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: How long does this process take?
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: Yeah, so what I oftentimes see from 99% of my fellow facilitators is that they have people come, and, you know, they are there for you during the trip, and then…
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: See you later! You know, goodbye! I had someone tell me, who she hadn't met me at this point, right? But before she had met me, she had paid $20,000 for a psychedelic experience, and then she had to go find another one because there was no integration or help supporting her afterwards.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: Because psychedelics are so suggestive, what the research also says is, like, let's say you are working in a clinical setting, and I'm not a therapist, I always want to make that very clear, but let's say you're working in a clinical setting with a therapist who is trained in, a union perspective, right? What they find is that
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: The… the therapist…
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: predisposition drives the outcome for the client toward more union outcomes, right? So it is, again, very suggestible. So, this is my long answer to say, before people enter the trip, one thing that I will have them do is breathwork. I'm also a breathwork facilitator. The style I facilitate is very similar to holotropic, it's like a mix of holotropic and transformational.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: Holotropic breathwork was created by Stanislav Groov in response to the criminalization of psychedelics, and it's meant to simulate a psychedelic experience without you needing to take psychedelics, right? It's all generated from your breath and within your body. So I take them through that the night before, simply as a way of sort of opening them up, and then also telling them, hey, tonight, you are in control of your rocket ship. If you really want to go somewhere, amazing, breathe harder. But if you just want to have an experience.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: And, you know, breathe in and out through your nose, that's okay too, but tomorrow, once you take the mushrooms.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: There is no… you're not in control, like, you're on the journey, right? And so that's kind of the only coaching that happens afterward, and then the coaching really begins in earnest after. So how are we integrating the experience? What are you learning? What are you taking? Because I don't want to say anything to them beforehand that is going to direct the experience of their trip. I want them to get whatever they need out of it, not whatever I think they need.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I love that. And so, how long does the after coaching work?
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: Yep, so…
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: We start the next day, with one thing that I learned from an Indigenous practice, this is not something you're probably going to find in a clinical research study, is the importance of sharing, of being uninterrupted in your share. And for a lot of people, the trip happens like a movie, so everyone has the opportunity to simply, like, express whatever they feel comfortable with. I've had people who say, you know, I'll say this, but there's a lot that I still just want to keep for myself. That's fine.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: One of the most important aspects, I believe, of change
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: Just period is play, and is joy, and it's so underrated, and we're always looking at pain as being a teacher, but joy is one of the most effective teachers, so always have us go do something fun.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: the next day as well, whether that be, like, chartering a boat, or going on a horseback ride, going on a hike, just, like, bringing back that, because sometimes trips are difficult, meaning they can be sad, right? But no one has a bad trip, kind of like what I'm… I feel like you might be referring to with your friends, where it felt like it really messed with their psyche, right? But bringing back that sense of joy, so that's the first part. And then we go through that afternoon and evening the next day. Entire integration exercises
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: that I have built out, particularly for this, particularly for making sense of the journey.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: And to gain stock of, okay, what do we know we get to do? What do we have a lot of clarity around?
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: And where are we perhaps out of alignment, out of congruence in our day-to-day lives, as we realize in the journey, and where do we get to adjust? So there's quite a big exercise, it takes a long time to do. But by that time, everyone's like, oh my god, I don't want to process my life anymore. Beautiful. We come back the next day, and we set up our integration container. Because here's the thing, stuff is going to come up.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: I've had people say, hey, I have these, like, weird new tastes. Is this normal? I've had people say, I would really like to talk to my sister about this, but she's not super open to these types of things. How can I broach this conversation? I've had people say, Julie, I knew in the experience that, like, maybe this relationship was over, but now that I'm back in my day-to-day life, I'm having a really hard time ending it. That is what the integration period afterward is for. So we set up a month-long, I call it a mini-mind.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: Where we'll meet 3 more times, and we'll have an open group chat throughout the experience to help you integrate.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: If you process everything. And I also do a microdosing masterclass that month, because microdosing in the month following a trip can be really helpful for integration.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So, the… the initial trip is more like a macrodosing, They're gonna…
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: Retreats are a larger ceremonial dose, so they're, you know, 2 to 5 grams.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Okay, and then… Is that… that… the container that you help people in…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: All the time, or do you have separate…
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: Oh, half of my…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: How do you do your work? Just phrase it that way.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: Half of my work is just microdosing, so those are people who, you know… some people are both, they want to microdose and they want to have a larger experience. Some people just want to do one or the other, that's beautiful, I really invite… I encourage people to trust themselves more.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: and trust what they feel like is best for them. So, let's say, let's take a microdosing client,
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: it can look anywhere. I have a DIY program for people who just, you know, want to be able to start this and do it on their own. I have my 6-month mentorship. It's one-to-one work, where it's completely bespoke to what they're working on, and we go through several rounds of microdosing, but at the crux of all my microdosing work is anywhere from 1 to multiple rounds, so a round is 30 to 60 days following a protocol, which is a schedule, because you don't microdose every day. Some days are on.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: some days are off, and you're pairing that with different intentional relearning tools. That's what the… that's what the research calls it. The ones that I, you know, use and teach are tools of transformational coaching.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: and people microdose, and they pair them, and they're getting all the neuroplasticity, and it's sticking, and then we're integrating, so they take the magic of mushrooms into their everyday life, and it becomes their new normal. Awesome, and people see a lot of great change, people want to get off medication, people want to increase their creativity, people want, an alternative to Adderall for clean energy and focus. Awesome.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: And then… Half my work is retreats. I do a retreat every other month, 5 to 6 women.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: And those are, again, the macro doses. So macro is 2 to 5 grams. Micro is… I like to start everyone off at 100 milligrams, so that's a 20th of a full dose. Microdosing is truly subperceptual. You're not gonna feel anything. You can go pick your kids up from soccer, you can cook dinner, you can operate heavy machinery, you can go to work. It is… I've worked with doctors, I work with OR nurses, I've worked with traders on Wall Street, no one feels anything because it's microdosing.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: do feel something, you either need to check your product, you need to check your dosage.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: Or you need to think about, like, who you're working with and what is their, you know, philosophy. We all have different philosophies, but I want you on the lowest dose possible to promote change without feeling anything.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So, would somebody like… is there, like, a time when you microdose, and, like, a little…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Ceremony around it? Or is it just, like…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Taking medicine, any other medicine that you take, you just take it, and…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I don't… I guess I just don't understand how the experience works if you're microdosing.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: So, regardless of whether you do my DIY program, or we work together one-on-one, a big… there's a whole training video in the DIY program on, like, creating your microdosing practice, because it isn't a vitamin, right? I just took one of my vitamins before I hopped on this call, and it was… it was not ceremonious. But I do invite people to create a ritual around it. One of the most important things I teach, and again, in every single aspect, micro, macro, DIY, intimate, one-to-one, is the importance of intention.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: It's important to have an intention for your overall protocol, for your overall trip, but then it's very important in microdosing to have a smaller daily intention that you're pairing your microdosing practice with. In terms of time of day, I always tell people the first time you do it, it's great to do it around 4 to 6 p.m, because what if it gives you a slightly more energizing effect? That's how it feels in my body. Well, I don't want you to be up, right? It's not going to keep you up past 10 PM.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: But what if you start to feel a little tired? Well, I don't want you to be, like, 11am and feeling sluggish.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: So that you get a sense of how it's going to feel in your body, because every body is different, right? So, from there, you can determine, do I want to do this more in the evening? Did I like the 4-6? Would I like to do this more in the morning and just have that clean sense of energy throughout my day? And from there, it's really important to take your microdosing capsule, set your intention, and then pair it with your tool of intentional relearning, whatever that tool is.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: within 4-6 hours, because that's sort of your, like, on time, right? Again, you're not gonna feel anything. Some people do feel slightly energized. I would say the biggest overall feeling, though, is a sense of greater gratitude, and, like.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: you know, awe and appreciation and wonder of life. It's really, truly like having a little bit of sparkle, or almost like someone cleaned the windows of your eyes, and you said, oh, okay, like, life is pretty good, right? But it's not like having a glass of wine, taking a cannabis gonna be… it's definitely less than having a Benadryl. So, you really don't feel anything.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I… it sounds like my experience with ashwagandha.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: Cool!
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I know when I haven't taken it for a while, there's just, like, there's a difference in feeling, and it is kind of like… my vision is a little… my emotional vision is a little more…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: opaque.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Whereas…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: when I take it, I feel energized, I feel… I feel good. It relieves anxiety for me. It's just like…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: D.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: that… that anxious, not-in-your-stomach feeling, just… it just doesn't go. I just don't go there.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And so, would… would you be taking these, like, every day, or do… is there, like, a dosing schedule?
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: Not every day. If you hear someone say they microdose every day, nothing bad's gonna happen to them, but it's like, you know how we… some people take, like, a thousand bajillion milligrams of vitamin C, and you're like, well, you're just gonna pee it out? That's what's gonna happen with psilocybin very quickly, because you're gonna build up a tolerance. It's one of… I mean, psychedelics in general, you build up a tolerance extremely fast, so you do follow a schedule of on and off days, so, like.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: in 30 days.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: you might have, you know, X amount of days on, and then so many days off, and then X amount of days on, so many days off, and then at the end of a round, right, so that's 60… 30 to 60 days, you're gonna take a longer period that's just totally off, and that's where you'll get your reset, so then you can come back to it if you'd like.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And do people…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: like, cycle like that long-term? Or is it… is it more common for them just to go through one cycle and wait a long time before they decide to come back and go through another cycle?
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: Yeah, so it really depends on what we're working on, right? So, in my longer container, you go through… you have the opportunity, not everyone wants to go through 4 rounds of guided microdosing. Four rounds is kind of my sweet spot, where I feel like people get to a really good new baseline. That's where I'm talking about they receive the change of 40% overall increase of well-being.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: Right? And then, from there, they can come back to it once or twice a year to maintain that. That's what the research says. I don't personally feel like I need to do it anymore to maintain. I do continue to go through microdosing rounds and practices, because it's my work, but, like, my change is sustainable, my change is fully integrated. And that's my goal. What I don't want is for anyone to feel like microdosing becomes their new crutch.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: or you have to. My goal is to help you use microdosing to eliminate your crutches.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: And it's like, here's the difference. I love this example. I was on Prozac, didn't work for me. When it came off Prozac, you know, this is how I felt before Prozac, I dipped well below my baseline getting off of it, and that's what happens for so many people who are struggling with medications and to get off of them. Microdosing is like climbing a ladder, and, you know, let's say, for whatever reason, you stop microdosing, or you forget, or whatever, you're gonna stay on whatever step you were on. It's not gonna push you off.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: But you're… I mean, you're not going to continue to see improvement if you're not still, like, working the… working the work. But it's… you're safe. You're on the stair, nothing's gonna happen, which to me, it's like, why… why wouldn't you want to do that versus a medication that…
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: you know, long-term stops your body from producing serotonin, and so when you do get off of it, you are in a deficit. Like, scientifically. Physiologically.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, I'm not about pharmaceuticals in any way, shape, or form, so there's that. Do you… I'm gonna ask you two questions, and you are welcome to say I'm not going to comment on that, because this is something that's going to go out in the public, but do you…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Help people facilitate acquiring the…
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: Yeah, I work with 3 different companies in California. They're all based out of California, probably for obvious reasons. I actually just moved from California, so that's, like.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: probably also not surprising to your audience, like, how I got into this, and where I first heard about it, and where I met all these companies. So, I do work with those 3 companies, and the companies I work with, I know that their products are exactly what they say they are, I know the facilities they grow them in, because it is, like, mushrooms are something that's hard to grow, right? Do it safely. So, yes, I work with those 3 companies, and I do have, like, in the email, regardless if you're doing, like, the
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: you know, the DIY program, where you're working with me in a larger one-to-one capacity, all of the ordering information and the recommendation around, like, okay, this company, their capsules only start at 200 milligrams. Like, that's great for you if you…
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: feel like you, are a little bit more resistant, maybe you've, like, had a long-term, you know, SSRI use or whatever. It's also great for, like, my fibromyalgia babes, etc. So it's very clear on, like, this is probably a good product for you to use. But I'm also not a dictator, and I know other people want to order different products, but for instance, I had a girl who was hesitant to start working with me. She said, I've tried microdosing before, and it made me feel really weird. And then when she ordered from my company.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: she was like, oh, it was the product. Like, I don't know what was in those capsules, but it wasn't what I thought it was. So I just, I caution people, for sure, to be, like, who they order from.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And I know you were once an attorney, so I'm gonna ask you about the legality of all this, and you're using companies that are, like.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: In a state, and… if it's a company, then, in my mind, I'm picturing, like, manufacturing.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: Yep, manufacturing.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: facilities, and they're regulated to some extent. I mean.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I don't know that state regulators would come in. I don't even know that state regulators are all that effective, but I mean, there's some standard. When you say company, to me, it means that there's some standard of, consistency that they…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Produce their product, too.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: Yeah, that's particularly why I work with the three that I work with, because there are plenty of, like, suppliers out there that are not a comp… like, the companies that I work with, yes, they have, like, literal manufacturing, sites that I have been to, that I have seen, versus, like, who knows, like, what someone's doing in their closet from what you get on Instagram, right? So, yeah, that's also a thing. I don't have anything to do with the sale distribution. I don't make money from these companies.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: like, some of them are my good friends, but, like, I don't profit from them, and that's how I protect myself. Like, they do ship nationwide, and one of my companies does ship to Canada. So, like, for instance, if you were in Guatemala listening to this, like, unless you knew someone…
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: like, you knew a place to get microdosing capsules, like, I couldn't help you with that. But that's also how I protect myself legally, because, right, California's a different landscape, along with Oregon, Colorado, and even Washington, D.C, you can go into a dispensary and get psilocybin microdosing capsules.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: But it's like, that… the interstate, you know, dispensing and blah blah blah, that's on them. It's not on me, because I don't, you know, I don't have anything to do with them selling, distributing, etc.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You just help people, once they acquire the… the item, to have…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: An experience, and it's a transformation.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: You get it, I help you safely, productively, and effectively use it.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Love it, love it. And I think that's a really important
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: subject to… that we covered. I mean, because…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You know, you talk about doing these things and using these
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: psychedelics, and people are, like, the underground.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: My mind goes to, you know, the underground, closed doors.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Exchanging dollars for baggies of stuff, and…
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: Well, unfortunately, it is sort of, like, in a way, underground. Like, my company's asked that I don't publicly post their, like, information, right? I share it with the people that have, like, obviously are in good faith, have paid to enter my community and receive support. I'm not just out here posting on Instagram, like, go to this link! So…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Right.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: I mean, it's hard, right? I look a lot at psilocybin like cannabis. 5, 10 years ago. I'm in such a weird position. I live in Kansas City, Missouri. I'm in Missouri. Cannabis is legal. If you go to Kansas.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: literally, the road is called State Line. If you cross the road, it's illegal. But we see, like, cannabis has made a huge surges, but we're still dealing with federal ambiguity, but whatever. You know, we think about it as a J-curve, where cannabis has already taken off. It's already on the upward track on the J-curve. Psilocybin, I would say, is more, like, right on that under-lean, and it's starting to take off, but it is, like, I think…
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: I feel fairly confident saying in 5 to 10 years, psilocybin will be what cannabis was 5 to 10, you know, years ago. Or we're looking at, in 5 to 10 years, psilocybin will be what cannabis is now.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That's so interesting, and Missouri is…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Is open to cannabis use now?
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: Oh, yeah, there's dispensaries everywhere!
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That is so wild. I have…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I have a friend who lived in Missouri, and she left Missouri for Oregon because they ran her out over cannabis.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: Yeah, I mean, that's the thing, right? We see… I mean, I could really go off on this, but how many Black men have been incarcerated because of cannabis for decades, right? And now here we are, like, everyone's making money off of it, and it's just… it's very sad.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It is really sad. I… Yeah.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Okay, so, bringing this full circle. Why do some people feel clearer, calmer, and more focused with psychedelics, while others feel anxious or scattered afterwards? And how does proper nervous system regulation and integration change that outcome?
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: Yeah, well, I… thank you for asking. You know, I… there's some people who just microdosing is not for you, so if, you know, you're like, okay, I just wanna… I'm just curious, I wanna know, you can follow me on Instagram, or I know we're gonna talk about it, it's gonna be linked in the show notes, but if you DM me on Instagram, just the word Journey, this quiz will automatically send to you, or you can find it in the show notes, and it's a very quick 2-minute quiz that'll tell you if microdosing is for you, if it's definitely not for
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: you, or if it's worth having more of a conversation. So for the people that it's not, it's because there's some contraindication, perhaps with a medication. Maybe there's someone with a history of themselves, or family history of psychosis, schizophrenia, or bipolar, particularly with a manic streak, and that is simply because in those conditions, what we're seeing is almost too much entropy in the brain, there's too much commotion, too much fire, and we don't want to add any gas to that, right?
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Right.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: enough. So it is truly not for everyone, and I don't think anything is for everyone. I really hate when I see that on the internet, like, you need to do the 75 days hard, or you need to meditate, and it's like, no, not everything works.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You need to do what works for you.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: Exactly, yeah.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And not feel guilt about it.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: Hey, I have so many people who are like, well, I know that I need to journal. I'm like, no, babe, if journaling does not inspire joy, I can tell you one thing you don't need to do is journal. We have enough guilt around enough things, right? Like, don't let your… don't let your practices become another one of them.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: But it's truly, it's not for everyone, and I also think a little bit of, like, an asterisk, some people think they, when they microdose and they have a little bit more anxiety, that that's a bad thing.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: I actually feel the opposite. I think that that is your body telling you that it's safe for you to look at that underlying anxiety, because here's the thing, nothing gave you that. Like, mushrooms didn't give it to you, cannabis didn't give it to you, it was there. It's allowing the cream to rise, but it's not creating the cream. And it's… if your body is, like, bringing it up to you, then it's safe for you to finally process it.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: So I have worked with someone… this is kind of an extreme example, but her first round microdosing, she…
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: recalled an incident in college of sexual assault that she had, like, blocked out, and I, you know, I said, I'm so sorry you're going through this, but I'm so glad that we're working in this container together when it came up, because this is your subconscious's signal to you that it's safe to process.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: And, you know, what a… what a gift, ultimately, that she was able to work through that and, like, and engage with that memory with safety. So, I know anxiety is uncomfortable, I experienced it for decades, and it's not a sign that you're doing something wrong, it's an invitation to go deeper with it.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, and it… And it's just…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It's not actually real to me.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I know when I… when I'm feeling anxiety, and I can look at it, and I can just examine the…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: the feeling that I'm having.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And I can actually get through it. I can release it.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: In a way that's just, like.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, I don't know why. I don't know why. It's like if your finger's hurting for some random reason, or your shoulder… I… sometimes my shoulder acts up.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And… Well, I know it probably means something deeper in there. It's just…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It's an invitation to look at it and ask what it… what does it need?
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: Yeah, I think if we could always be asking ourselves, like, what do I need right now, instead of continually just going on to the next thing and forcing ourselves into shoulds, and have-tos and need-tos, and ultimately, like, you are not your anxious thoughts, you're not the pain in your finger.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: you are in a perfectly pure seed of consciousness, like, capital L self, and I think also depersonalizing all of what we experience is really helpful as well.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, that depersonalizing is… is a powerful word. Very powerful.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I love what you're doing. And so…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: People can find this microdosing quiz, which is gonna just take you a couple minutes to get through, and it will really help you decide if
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: If this is something that you should explore further, or if you should try something different.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: Yeah, I always like to say I hate to waste people's time, and so, like, the quiz is literally 2 minutes, like, if it takes you longer than that, you're overthinking the questions, just go with your first instinct. But if it comes out and it's like, hey, it's truly not for you, I feel so much better that you just know. Beautiful. Like, I will not have wasted your time.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Awesome, awesome. Thank you so much for joining me, Julie. This has been a very interesting conversation.
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: Thanks so much for having me, Jill, I appreciate your time.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You can learn more about Julie and take the microdosing quiz by visiting the show notes below or finding Julie over on Instagram and TikTok, did you say?
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: Instagram, for sure, yeah.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Instagram, for sure, and just comment journey?
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::Julie Hagen - Psychedelic Facilitator: Yep, DM me the word Journey, and it'll come right up.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And… You can decide whether this is for you or not, or you should just explore it further.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: By taking that quiz. Thanks for joining us today. If you're ready to amplify your voice, monetize your mission, and start attracting premium clients, your next step is simple. Head to coachesalchemist.com and schedule your free client acquisition audit. Join us for our next episode as we share what others are doing to raise the global frequency, and remember, change begins with you. You have all the power to change the world. Start today and get visible.
