Olivia Kaplan is a life success coach at Carey Services in Indiana. In this episode of Wellness Matters for Direct Support, she talks about how they implemented trauma-informed care in her organization, what it took to train staff, and how trauma-informed care is used to support both DSPs and the people they're supporting.

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Frontline Initiative

Institute on Community Integration at the University of Minnesota

- Hello and welcome to

the podcast Wellness

Matters for Direct Support.

This is a podcast

developed by the University

of Minnesota's Institute

on community integration.

It's focused on the importance

of health, wellness,

and self-care for direct workers.

My name is Chet Cheddar.

I work at ICI as a national

workforce consultant, as well

as I'm one of the co-editors

for Frontline Initiatives,

which is a magazine we publish along

with the National Alliance

for Direct Support.

I'm here with my colleague

and co-host Mark Olson.

- Hi, I'm Mark Olson,

and this is Chet Said,

and I'm a trainer curriculum writer.

I have been a direct support

professional for many,

many years in the past,

and recreation residential

supports, vocational

and advocacy support, and

currently for a family member.

Today we are gonna talk

about trauma-informed care,

and I, I'd like to introduce

our guest, Olivia Kaplan.

Olivia has her MSW specializing in mental

health and addiction.

She works for Carrie Services in Indiana

as a life success coach.

Care Services received a

grant from AWS Foundation

to develop the Life Success Coach program

using a trauma-informed

care model with the goal

of reducing turnover

and increasing the independence

of individuals receiving

support from care services.

Olivia was hired in October of 2020

as a life life success coach.

Now, Olivia, our first question is,

how did you become interested

in trauma-informed supports?

- Hi. Yeah. So my background

is in therapy.

I did case management

and home-based case management,

home-based therapy with DCS

and probation clients for quite some time

before I even entered the

disability services world.

And so a lot

of the work I've done in my

professional life has been

in the realm of dealing

with trauma, people

experiencing a lifelong history of trauma

or sometimes just moments

of trauma in their life.

And so that was a big piece of it.

And I think my own, my own history

with childhood trauma,

experiencing just a lot

of things growing up and resilience

and those protective factors

that kind of balance out some

of the things that, you

know, maybe you experience

as traumatic events in life.

You know, when we, when

we think about ACEs,

adverse childhood experiences,

my own ACEs score is an eight out of 10.

And so thinking, you know,

as an adult where I should be, right, for

having experienced a

lot of, a lot of trauma

growing up, I think that really kind of

helped me figure out like,

okay, this is something

that's necessary for people

having different trauma-informed

supports in their life,

having people who are positive supports

and people who can

really promote resilience

and promote healing.

And having systems that

are set up in a way that,

that really, that really do support

and promote healing for people.

- Now, one of the things

you spoke of in, in

that particular part was

that there can be like small

traumas that people have.

What are some of the

things that you've run into

that are kind of those

little small traumas

that people may not know that

that was really a traumatic experience?

- I think when we, when we

think about like the difference

between some things that are kind

of these like quote unquote big T traumas

and like little t traumas,

maybe there are things like moving

to a new community, right?

And being really lonely

and not having support

or not having friends,

not not having anybody in your

life that you can talk to.

And then that kind of

snowballs into maybe different,

different things down the

line or being bullied, right?

And that is something

that maybe can turn into maybe

suffering from depression

or anxiety

or different things that, that come

with some of those things.

And those are things that,

that we see a lot too,

just in the disability services world.

People who have a disability that

maybe have moved from home to home

or don't have natural

supports in their life,

and so they are really lonely

or experience bullying

and things like that.

- Well, I know from my

experience in providing support,

there were so many folks

that I would guess probably

experienced that people

that supports because

of the staff turnover that they deal with.

Yeah. And, and so I

mean, that might be one

of those little t ones

for, for some folks,

others it might be a big T. So, yeah.

- Yeah. Absolutely.

- Che, you have a question? I,

- Yeah, that's where we were gonna go kind

of next is Olivia, could you tell us what,

I've heard it phrased a

couple different ways.

Trauma-informed care or

trauma-informed supports.

C tell us what that is

and how does it affect people

with intellectual disabilities?

And I think, you know, the example

that you just brought up now,

mark is such a, such a good one.

'cause we know that it happens so often.

- Yeah. Yeah. So the way that we kind

of define trauma-informed

care, like if we're

to boil it down to its

most simplistic of terms,

I guess would be really a

shift in the way we see people

kind of shifting from this

mindset of what's wrong

with you to what happened to you, right?

So when somebody's, you

know, acting a certain way

or behaving a certain way,

or doing something that

maybe is irritating

to us or that we don't agree with,

or we just can't understand, instead

of slipping into this mindset of like,

man, what is wrong with you?

I can't believe you

would do something like

that, or whatever.

Right? This place of

frustration or irritation.

We kind of flip that around

and think, okay, what might

have happened back here

that's causing this response now?

Right? Chances are maybe

something did happen to

that person that is creating a response

in this moment, whether we

know about it or we don't.

And so, really, trauma, yeah,

trauma-informed care is really

just a, a systematic way

in the way that, that we see people.

- Yeah. And I think just

really to step back and, and,

and think about that, you know, what,

what has this person gone

through in their life

and what may be affecting

the way that they're,

they're responding to me now,

it might seem like they're

really like overreacting

to something, but we don't know what's

underneath all of that.

- Right? And I think

that kind of goes back

to even having a more

comprehensive understanding of even

what trauma is, right?

Like, like everybody's experience

with trauma is different

and it impacts people differently.

Whether you have a

disability, whether you don't,

whether you've, you know, lived 70 years

of life, whether you, you know,

you're a family of origin,

your experience in different places.

Our, our perception

and the way we intake information

and understand the world

impacts the way that we perceive

trauma and how we,

how we understand it,

and how we deal with it.

And so my understanding

of trauma-informed care,

even is impacted by

what I even believe that trauma is.

And so when we're talking

about trauma, understanding

that it's, it really is just

a significant life event

that maybe happened to me

or even somebody that I care about,

and it's impacted the way

that I think, feel, behave,

interact with world around me.

And so having that understanding

then shifts the way

that maybe I can understand

and interact with another person.

- Right. Boy, that makes a lot of sense,

- Mark.

Yep. So, so why is it important

to adopt a trauma informed

approach when supporting people

with intellectual disabilities?

- Yeah, I think, well that's a, I think a,

a multifaceted question, right?

I think it's, you know,

it's, it seems simple.

It seems simple on the outset,

but I think, honestly, I think trauma,

a trauma-informed

approach is important just

for people in general, right?

I think it's important for people who

important, for people who are,

who don't have disabilities.

I think it's important for

people who are in schools.

I think it's important for

people who do have disabilities

because there's a lot of things

that we just don't know about people.

I mean, for people who have

disabilities, like a lot

of times there's, we

do know a lot of stuff

that's happened in their life

because we get, you know,

when they come to our agency,

we get A-A-P-C-I-S-P, right?

They're person-centered

their support plans, right?

We get their behavior plans.

We get, we get all this,

this, this paperwork

and all of these plans

that come with people

that sometimes outline a lot

of really personal

details about their life

and help us to, to care for them

and to treat them in a way

that is really informed

by what's going on in their life.

But there's always gonna be things

that we don't know about people.

And so adopting a trauma

informed care model,

or a trauma informed

way of caring for people

just accounts for that margin, right?

It just accounts for the things

that maybe we don't know.

If I only was sensitive

to people when I knew

that they've been through

something difficult.

I, like, I wouldn't be

sensitive to the majority

of the people in the

world because majority

of the people are not gonna

tell me when they've been

through something hard.

Right? When they've experienced trauma,

because I don't know,

I don't know about you,

but I don't wanna go around

and have to tell every single

person that I encounter all

of the terrible things that

happened in my life in order

to be treated with dignity

and respect. Right?

- Yeah. Thank goodness

we dont have to wear

that on our name badges or something.

- Right? Right.

And so, and so, especially for people

who have disabilities,

sometimes cognitively,

they don't have the ability

to share some of those things,

maybe verbally, their verbal ability,

they communicate differently.

And so there's a barrier

in that communication

to us when they're talking with us

or when they're communicating

with us about things that

they've been through.

And, and again, you know,

sometimes they just don't wanna tell us.

They just don't wanna

tell us. And they've been

through some stuff and, and that's okay.

But, but having this mentality

and having this, this system of care

where we're trauma

informed helps us to care

for people in a way that, that

understands, okay, majority

of people in the world, it's like 70%

of people in the United States

have experienced at least one

traumatic event in their life, higher

for people with a disability.

Right. We can, we can be

sensitive then to, to everybody

and understand that, that probably

I should treat people a little

bit, a little bit better.

I can treat people knowing, okay,

I'll be a little more

sensitive to what they've been through.

- Yeah. What would, I

mean, I, I bring this back

to listening to you, you, you

share this, it ties so closely

to some of the person-centered

thinking philosophies

that I train folks in.

Yeah. And how when we do

person centered thinking,

we are talking about coming

from where the individual is at

and they're driving the bus.

This is, you know, we need to

learn about each individual.

Now, when I joined, when,

when I got into the

this was not really something

that was talked about.

Right. And I, I, I'm

sitting here thinking,

and I, I, I'm going, oh my

gosh, did I do some things in,

in, in the past in providing support

that probably weren't the best things,

but it was what we did at that time.

Sure. I ran into some

individuals that, you know,

had been in institutions

talk about some trauma

that they'd experienced.

Yeah. And talk about some of

the, the behaviors as it were,

or the ways people were

communicating that they needed

to do something through that,

that communication that that,

that, that action instead, you know,

if I had trauma informed

care in place back then,

I would've done things

so much differently.

- Sure. - So, so I appreciate

hearing that from you

because it, it, it, it,

it makes me feel that,

that we are at least moving

in the right direction.

- Right. I think about stuff like that.

And I think, like, okay, so,

so I didn't know back then.

Right. And I can't, like

I'm not, you are not faulted

for what you don't know.

Right. Like, well, I can't know

that I can't do what I don't know.

But when you know better,

I, you can do better right?

Now that I know the information,

maybe I could do something with it.

And I think that's,

that's really the most

important piece. Yeah, for sure.

- Olivia, you tell us how

the organization you work

with came to provide

trauma-informed support.

- Yeah. So you had kind of mentioned this,

but it is, it well started as

this grant funded initiative.

So AWS foundation really is a big

supporter of trauma-informed care

and trauma-informed supports.

And so they, they really

partnered with us and

provided kind of the first,

really this first leg of the grant.

And we're actually in

our phase two process now

to really kind of pilot this program.

'cause it hadn't, we hadn't

figured a different place

or hadn't seen a different place

where this had been really

done in, in this way yet.

And so, you know, our

our agency kind of knew

that, that something was going on and,

and had kind of seen different

things within the agency.

They were like, okay, this is not right,

or this isn't going well,

or this, you know, we're struggling here

and we're struggling here

and we're seeing a lot

of like this kind of common thread

of people struggling in this way.

And so they weren't exactly sure,

like, you know, what to do about it.

So they did some, some research

and some kind of digging.

And, and this was kind of the, the,

the model they came up with, right?

Was this, this idea

that supporting people via

informed supports would be really

beneficial in a lot of ways.

And, and we know that, you know,

that's the case when we look at the way

that they're doing

trauma-informed care in schools.

A lot of elementary schools

and across the country have

implemented trauma-informed

supports and trauma-informed care models.

And that's proven to be really beneficial.

So why would we not do that here? Right?

And so the, the grant

initially kind of outlined in

the beginning, like, working

with individuals, right?

Like, we're really gonna,

we're gonna start with individuals.

We're gonna, we're gonna do that.

And, and when I started, like

ideally that's a great idea

because individuals do need that support

and do need kind of that,

that one-on-one,

or even like kind of a

broader spectrum of support

that's trauma-informed.

But, but very quickly I realized that

that approach was unsustainable, right?

Only working with the

individuals that we serve

wasn't gonna do it if our DSPs

weren't tr using a

trauma-informed method, right?

Because I'm only one person

for our 220 employees

and one person for the you

500 plus people that we serve, right?

And so how do we create this

like complete culture

change in our organization

where trauma informed care

and providing trauma-informed supports,

and being a culture

where we are trauma-informed is important.

And so recognizing, okay, we

need to work with our DSPs

to train them on how to be trauma-informed

and how to address, you know, the things

that are going on in their

lives and provide support

and resources

and training to them on

what it means to be a,

a trauma-informed environment

and provide that to individuals

supporting our middle management

and training them on culture

and creating that culture for the DSPs

that are on their teams.

And kind of, and, and figuring out like

where do we start with that?

So I decided to start

with middle management.

'cause we had the most struggle there.

They kind of were the crux, right?

They're always, middle

management are always the people

who kind of get caught in the crunch

where they get those top down directives

and they get like the kind of

the junk from the bottom up.

They get all, they

receive all the complaints

and they, they get all the directives.

And so kind of empowering

our middle management

and supporting them in a way

where they felt like they

could implement this kind

of a program and they could

do that with their teams

and they could empower

their DSPs to do that

and they could support the individuals

that were on their caseloads

and things like that.

So that's kind of the, the

really, really short version of

how we, how our organization came to, came

to providing kind of

trauma informed supports.

But, but yeah, we, you know,

we developed a framework,

an implementation framework model that

kind of goes through this,

like this wheel and a process.

I have an advisory

committee for the program

and the development and things like that.

So it helps kind of with

some oversight and direction.

- I, I just love that really looking at

what, what are the DSPs,

the direct support workers

and professionals, what

do they bring with them?

And we, we all bring something,

you know, with us as,

as you said, and sometimes

that, that group of people

that are kind of overlooked

and we, we have to think about

one another as coworkers of

what, you know, what we've gone through,

what our life has been like and,

and what some of those things might be.

So I really, I really love

that the organization really looked at not

just the people served.

- Yeah.

- Alright. Now comes the fun part.

This question is one

that gives you the, like,

you know, you're from the Midwest.

'cause we talked a little bit

about that earlier, as are we,

we don't toot our horn enough,

we just don't being Midwesterners.

So here's a chance for

you to talk about some

of the success successes that you have had

with this approach at your

organization and personally.

- Yeah. Yeah.

So I think in terms of different,

like successes, man, I think that

we've seen a lot more, a lot more

just like relational success

among different people

within the organization.

When I look at relationships

specifically, like

for me, that was like a big

deal to me was being relational

with people and being approachable.

I see a lot of people taking

advantage of resources

and things that I offer being connected

to community resources, being connected to

different support services

and things like that,

that we're able to offer

through this program specifically.

And that's a huge success to me.

Things that, you know, might

otherwise cause people stress

and anxiety with their job.

Whether it's, you know,

I can't get to work

because of transportation,

figuring out childcare,

those kinds of things.

All of that.

I think another success

that we've had is in terms

of this position specifically,

I do a lot of advocating

for different policy changes

and, you know, accessibility

within our policies at the

agency, within our agency at

that level so that our DSPs

maybe have better, I

don't know this, this,

some of our DSPs struggle

to follow policies

because either the policies

aren't accessible to them

or they're, they're too high level, right?

We write all of our policies

in this like legalese.

And so like myself as like a,

like a master's level

clinician, I look at this like,

you know, 12 page document

that has all these humongous words in it.

And I'm like, Hmm, do I

really need to read that?

Do I wanna read that?

Like, can I like paste

that in chat GPT and say,

summarize this for me?

Right? Like, how are some

of our DSPs expected to

follow things that they

are not one, maybe not able

to read two can't access.

So I think that's been a big success too,

is figuring out different ways to simplify

and make things accessible for our DSP so

that they know what they're doing

- Well.

Yeah. Why do, why do

the executives are they,

why are they the only ones

that get the executive

summary, right?

- Right. I want an executive

summary of literally everything,

- Every level of it should be written.

It should be the language

level that people

who are English language

learners, people who who,

who may not have

that legal background

can understand, right?

- Yeah. So I had, I

had read something once

that nothing should be communicated

above a sixth grade reading level.

And I think I had was at a

conference when they were talking

about a communication

and I thought, man, we

really need to work on that

because there's a lot of things

that I'm like, I know that

that's above a sixth grade reading level.

You know, we, we even,

- Yeah.

We, when we, when we write

the curriculum work that I do,

we write to a sixth to ninth grade level.

Yeah. We, we try, you know, we try

and keep it around six,

you know, sometimes just

because of terminology.

Basically we do write

sixth to ninth grade level.

And the one thing that comes into,

into play is sometimes there's

terminology that needs defining.

And so we'll define that

in a better language to try

and help people understand.

So you're talking the same thing. Yeah.

The, the same basic concept

that in itself can be a trauma

for some people not being

able to understand. Yeah.

- Well, and when we think

about, when we think about,

this is kind of a tangent

from your initial question,

I think, but when we

think about turnover and,

and like why people are

quitting, like are some

of the things that we're asking them

to do right at the outset,

just really too difficult.

I remember when I went through

our initial training week

and I took our, our med core classes,

our med med administration,

and the second med core

class, Medcor B was all,

it's all, you know,

psychotropic medications,

understanding med interactions,

these kinds of things.

And I was like, and,

and this is mandated by the state, right?

Like, if you can't pass

it within three times,

you cannot work here

because you have to be able to pass meds.

And I just remember I was,

I had graduated from grad

and I started in here in

that far removed from my

graduate, my graduate education.

And I was sitting in Med

Corps and in Med Corps B

and I just remember thinking, oh my gosh,

I took an entire semester class in

my graduate school on

what they're teaching

in one afternoon in Med Corby.

I took a whole semester

class on this in grad school.

Like, what?

You know, and, and,

and we have like, we have people who are

18 years old

who maybe have a GED high

school diploma, right?

They maybe are not, not college educated,

don't have a master's degree, right.

Coming in to do really, really

like hard work, rewarding work,

but hard work caring for people.

And I'm like, dang, this is a hard class.

- Well, and then that person

is really, you know, it's like,

do they even wanna finish the course?

Do they wanna stay and work there?

If, if they can't understand

the material they're being

asked to, to, to learn. So,

- And I will say like

our, our nursing staff,

our health office, they, like our nurse

who teaches Medcor does a

phenomenal job at like really

making it understandable.

And she'll sit and study with them and,

and give, like, she does a great job of,

of really breaking down the information.

But I mean, there's some stuff that like

is just difficult names of medications.

There's no easy, you're not

changing that, you know, you know,

- I, I still get 'em all wrong if

- That.

I can't even pronounce the news

of the medications that I take.

- I'm with you, I'm with you.

- I'm like, oh my gosh.

And so it's just, yeah,

it's just challenging.

And I, and I think I, yeah,

I don't know, man, there's

so many things that

if it feels defeating from the outset,

how do we then on the back end,

you know, with this program

and kind of helping, how do we help

to set people up for success?

How do we help them,

how do, how this sense

of belonging here so that

they're like, okay, man,

even though that was hard, I know

that people here care about me.

I know that I'm valued here.

I know that I have

something to contribute.

I know that I'm doing good work.

I know that, you know, all

of these things. Yeah. It's a safe

- Place.

- Exactly. People are there

- To care about you.

You're a part of their

- Community. Exactly.

- And, and, and that helps us

celebrate the successes too.

And I think that's another

thing that we forget

to do quite often, celebrate that success.

Right? Right. And somebody

finishes that med core course

that you're talking about, celebrate that

with them somehow, you know?

Yeah. And, and, you know,

it's like simple things like

that are gonna really help with the, with,

I think the concept of,

of making pe making people

feel welcome and, and valued

and appreciated as you had said. So.

- And I think that kind of goes

back to like, like thinking

and, and talking about when,

when I said at the very

beginning, this idea

of just being relational.

I can't celebrate with you if

I don't know you. Yes. Right.

If I don't know that you've

been struggling, whether it's

with, you know, a class in training

or even just in your personal life

or with something that you're

dealing with, with somebody

that you're supporting

or you whatever it is.

If I don't know that if I don't know you,

I can't celebrate a win with you.

Right? I can't help you navigate something

that's hard if I don't even

know that that's going on.

And so I think, you know,

so much of this, this job

and so much of this

program is about proximity.

I can't create an environment for people.

One of the, the, we developed these, well,

we didn't develop the five principles,

but that, that's a core

piece of the program, right?

And so within this program,

safety, choice, collaboration,

trust, and empowerment.

And so I can't effectively

do those things, right?

I can't create an environment

that has those things.

If I'm not getting to know people, I'm not

- In relationship with people.

If favor and share favor

those again more slowly. Yeah.

The five principles,

- Safety.

Yeah. Yeah. Safety, choice, collaboration,

trustworthiness, and empowerment.

- And so those, those

are great core to live by

when you're working with any human being.

Yeah. So I I, I really appreciate

that you shared those again,

because I think that that does

help people kind of tie it

to even some of the other, other resources

that they might have and, and show

how these things all work together.

So chat.

- Yeah. I was wondering what

have been some other important

lessons learned as you've

been providing this?

- Yeah, I think, gosh,

we've learned so much.

We're in, we're we're

entering into the fourth year,

the second phase of this process.

And, and I think, I think

the biggest thing is

it's really all about the culture.

You really can't piecemeal this.

You can't say, well, I'm only gonna

be trauma-informed care

in this department.

Like, I'm only gonna be trauma

informed in this department.

I'm only gonna implement

this program with,

with these people, or with this

person, or with this staff,

or, you know, like, you,

you just can't, it's,

it has to be a whole agency,

systematic movement.

And, and I think another thing that,

like, that was hard for me personally,

and maybe it's just my personality,

because I'm very much like, I'm very,

I don't know, bullheaded,

maybe strong-willed a leader.

Midwestern, Midwestern.

I used to, I was called

bossy a lot as a kid.

And now I, I like to say

that bossy children are strong leaders.

Well, we do that person centered thinking,

we'll make it strengths based.

- That's, we do that

person centered thinking.

What, what's that mild negative that,

what's the positive in there? That's

- Good.

Exactly. Exactly.

But, but like, when I see

something as like, man,

this is a great idea.

This is positive change,

we're gonna do this.

Like, not shockingly,

not everybody sees it

as a great change.

Imagine what, imagine

that when you ask people

to do something different,

they don't want to.

And so, yeah, people aren't,

people aren't always

gonna wanna make a change.

You know, oftentimes they're

fine if the change applies to,

you know, those other people over there.

Right. As long as like, like

that department can do it.

But like, I don't have

to change my processes.

I don't have to change my behavior.

I don't have to change my language.

It seems like it's really just them.

And so really kind of

uncovering a lot of silos

that we're experiencing

and like kind of departments

that need to work together,

kind of operate independently

until they really need to work together.

And there's some friction.

And so, you know, when

you ask people to change,

there's a lot of pushback.

And they're like, well, I think

it's a great idea for them.

I'm like, no, no, no, it's

a great idea for you too.

And so yeah, that's, there's that

- Bossy thing coming back.

- Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

And so I think, I think it takes,

it takes a really strong

leader to weed out the people

who maybe aren't willing

to make the change, right?

You're always gonna have

people in your organization

who just don't want to do it.

And you have to decide, like,

you gotta determine what's more important.

Do we wanna move forward

with this initiative?

Because if we don't, you

just end up sliding backward

because things continue to move, right?

There's no such thing as stagnation.

Things are gonna continue to move.

And so if you're not moving

forward, you're moving backward.

And, and so like, some people are

not gonna be on board,

and maybe it takes them a

little longer to catch up

and eventually they get there and

they're kind of the caboose, right?

But you gotta have somebody

who's really strong and,

and willing to have hard conversations.

I think that's so critical,

willing to say to people, Hey,

like, this is what, this

is what we're doing.

Right? Just, I, I think a lot

of times there's a misconception

between with, with like

being bold and having conversations

and people are like, well,

that's not trauma informed.

Well, no, it can be sometimes,

sometimes having the hard

conversation is the kindest thing

you can do for somebody, right?

Like sometimes being honest

and telling somebody, Hey, this is an area

that we're really struggling in.

I need you to correct it.

I need you to course correct

because this is where we're going to,

and I need you to figure out

how you're gonna get there.

Right. Sometimes it's the

most kind thing you can do,

rather than just leaving 'em in the dark

and then all of a sudden, you know,

you guys are miles ahead and

they're like, wait a second.

Nobody told me. Right?

Nobody told me that

what I was doing was not

aligned with where we were going.

And so I think a lot of

those things have been,

have been big lessons for

us in, in figuring out how

to get people from one place to another.

And, you know, it's still

always a work in progress.

Right. I'm curious

- Because people are,

- People are

- People, I'm curious, some of the people

that are the hardest ones to get on board,

do they eventually become

sometimes your biggest advocates?

- Sometimes? Yeah.

- Yeah. I've, I've run

into that before as well.

The other thing that I've

also run into is that

sometimes turnover is positive.

Yeah. If you've got that person

that just can't get on board

with where you're going,

it may be time for them

to find their next thing

and for you to find the next person

that's going to be on board.

And that can then help

turnover in the end. So, right.

- Exactly. Yeah. That's,

you're exactly right.

And, and then, and having

those conversations, right?

Like, like me, I, I am

usually the one who has

to like bring that.

So my position's unique in that

I am my, my own department.

My program is a standalone

and nobody reports to me.

Occasionally I have, I

have practicum students,

social work practicum

students that will come in,

but I have no direct reports

and I report directly to the CEO.

So I, I also kind of operate

as like this in-house consultant,

where I see different things

that are going on in

different departments,

and I'm able to kind of say,

Hey, this is not working great,

or this is kind of the

pulse of the organization,

or this, people are unhappy with that.

Right. And I can say, we need

to do something here, right?

Like, this is not aligned

with where we're going

and it's not really my position

to have a conversation with this person.

But you as the CEO, you, as the head

of the agency can address that.

And that can be impactful.

- Right? Absolutely. And that

leads us to the next question.

How does a trauma informed

organization support direct

support professionals?

- So, yeah, there's a lot of

different things that, a lot

of different initiatives that

I think we've really tried

to put in place for people

so that they feel supported.

First. We, I created a

trauma-informed care training

that we, that I teach

during our new hire class.

So every single one of our new hires,

direct support professionals,

and any staff that comes

in, so admin staff,

early Head Start, anybody

that comes into our agency receives that

trauma-informed care training.

So they learn about trauma, they learn

about trauma-informed care.

They learn about those five

principles that I mentioned,

and how do I apply

those in our day-to-day,

what does trauma look like

when it shows up, right?

What does a trauma response

look like when it shows up in

somebody that we're gonna be supporting?

And how do I navigate some

of those things, right?

Some tangible pieces.

And, and that's one way that

we can really support our DSPs,

is by empowering them with

some of that knowledge, right?

I can't expect them to be trauma-informed

and to support people

by being trauma-informed if they

don't even have the knowledge.

So that's, that's one part.

And then also, by me being

accessible to people,

I make it a point to go

visit our DSPs, to talk

with our DSPs, to build

relationships with the pe,

the people that we

employ, so that they know

that they can come to me if

they need resources, support,

access, and connections to

community partners, whether

that's for housing, for food assistance,

for transportation assistance,

they need help finding childcare,

whatever that might be,

counseling services in

the, in the community,

all different kinds of support

and ongoing support can

kind of be channeled through

this program.

I kind of, I talked a

little bit about this, but,

but doing some of that,

advocating for some

of those policy changes

and different things that maybe don't,

don't really make sense for our DSPs,

or, you know, if I'm, I'm working at a,

at a residential home

and not at day services,

maybe those policies need

to look a little bit different

because I'm providing different services.

Right. I think another thing

that I kind of mentioned, just kind

of bringing consistent

issues to the forefront.

A lot of times, you know,

there's such a disconnect

from like c-level

executive management a lot of times.

And our DSPs, they don't

always feel like they can go

to our admin people

and say, Hey, this is problematic for me.

Maybe they'll go to their

manager, but there's five levels

and between A DSP and our CEO,

and so kind of, you know, if

they have that relationship

with me, I can help bridge that gap.

I, I think also just, you know,

working on engagement

strategies, appreciation efforts,

helping people feel like

they are appreciated

and they are valued,

and that, you know, if

they don't feel by valued

by anybody else, they

can feel valued by me.

Right. And I think that that's

a really, that's a really,

really big piece for me

with our, with our DSPs

and being trauma-informed is

like, they'll feel valued by me

and they can, and I hope

that they feel listened

to by me. And

- So one of the things that

I heard there is that, that

you've become, and you use,

you connect people to resources

that can help them in

their broader life as well,

which I think is really also a part of it,

because those traumas that A

DSP might have might be about,

I lost my daycare, how

can I find some childcare?

Yeah, yeah. Those kinds of things.

And so being a resource there,

my car just quit working

and I need it for work to take

people to the grocery store

or whatever, you know,

how can I get it fixed?

And finding those things that

can help with those things is,

is, is I think a really good good addition

that the organization can do. So,

- Yeah.

So much that's happening.

Yeah. Thank you so much.

That's happening in

someone's personal life

impacts our work life.

Right? And if I am living

paycheck to paycheck,

I can't afford for my car to

break down, I can't afford

to miss a day of work to, you know,

because my kid is sick.

Right. I can't, there's

so many things that impact

that, that then that retention piece,

that turnover piece that,

you know, well, I might

as well just throw in the towel

because I keep missing work,

or whatever that might be.

So how do we come up with

some different solutions

for people so that,

that we can, we can be,

we can be a little creative, right?

There are resources out there, there are

connections in the community

that can help people solve some

of those, some of those

more immediate issues

and long-term issues that impact

not only their personal life

that are kind of challenging

to deal with, but also

impact their work life

and then in turn, impact

the individuals we support.

- Olivia, mark just asked

you about some of the things

that your organization was doing

to support the direct

support professionals.

Can you tell us what sorts of trauma

and things are you seeing

in your staff members?

- Yeah, so I mean, we, we

see literally every kind

of social problem you can think of, right?

You know, I talked a little bit about some

of those more tangible

needs, food insecurity,

housing issues, childcare, transportation.

But you know, we also have

single moms that are impacted

by domestic violence.

I've had DSPs in my office the weekend

after they've experienced

a sexual assault trying

to figure out what do I do with this?

Where do I go from here? How

do I show up to work, right?

How do I get, get into counseling?

Do I talk to a victim's advocate, right?

Talking through some of those

things with them, we have DSPs

who are veterans, who

are working through some,

some complex things, right?

DSPs who are grieving

some excruciating losses

and still showing up to care for people,

people experiencing generational trauma,

battling chronic mental

illness, all sorts of things

that kind of impact day-to-day

life on a deeper level.

That, that then kind of translate

to needing more long-term support.

And so connecting people

to local counseling

services in our community

or local domestic violence

shelters, things like that, so

that they can get the

assistance that they need.

- Yeah. People are going through

a lot of different things,

and to be able to come to someone

and talk through those

must be extremely valuable.

And again, as I said earlier,

just that pla, that safe place

where you know that you

can talk about those things

and get the support that you

need is, is really invaluable.

I would also think that,

you know, you know, we know

that some of the people that

we support sometimes, again,

show their communication

through challenging behaviors

and that that might be triggering

for some staff members.

And how do you support staff

members who are kind of

juggling that

and trying to figure out, you

know, where's the best place

for me to work?

- Right? Yeah. So that's one of the things

that I address actually in the,

the trauma-informed care training

that we do right at the

beginning when they first show up

to our agency, and they're going through

that new hire training.

I, I have created

that new hire training

on trauma-informed care

to be very discussion oriented for

that reason, right?

To be, to be about like, okay, so

how do you handle things like that?

Right? Because, you know,

let's say I am struggling

with this thing that's going

on in my personal life, right?

And maybe I'm, I'm getting into fights

with my partner every single night,

and it's really, really hard at home.

And so I, I come to work the

next day and I'm stressed out

and I'm tired and, and I don't feel good

and I'm, I'm super reactive

because that's how my

brain is, has been trained

to function now, right?

Right. Because I'm in this

really contentious relationship,

and when someone maybe

yells at me at work, right?

And an individual I'm

supporting, yells at me at work,

man, what do I do?

How do I respond to that if I'm used to

yelling back, right?

I'm used to just leaving,

just walking away.

Well, I can't do that. If that person

needs 24 7 supervision,

that's not an option for me.

Right? And so, right.

Figuring out how do I juggle those things?

How do I address some of my own things?

Or how do I maybe kind of make this,

this like mental separation

of, okay, this person

is not the person

that I'm having these

feelings towards, right?

Or how do I, how do I

manage my own emotions?

And so, when we go through training,

I talk a lot about managing

personal stress, finding ways

to manage, manage my own stress,

ma finding healthy coping

skills, figuring out,

you know, what works for me?

You know, maybe it's journaling,

maybe it's FaceTiming my best friend,

maybe it's walking my dog,

maybe it's exercising.

Whatever those things are,

whatever those things are

that work for you, doing them, right?

Because it doesn't help if

I know what works for me

and then I don't do it right.

Guilty sometimes, but

- As are we

- Figuring out, right?

But figuring out the

things that work for you

because, you know, in moments of stress,

if we can figure out

those things and we can,

and we can get good at using our skills,

when we have moments of

daily stress in our lives,

when we have moments of big stress

or trauma, then I know,

oh, this is the thing that helps me.

When things aren't going

well, this is the thing

that calms me down.

This is the thing that regulates me

because I've been practicing it.

Right? So when somebody

at work is, you know,

behaving in a way that's

not favorable, right?

Or is yelling at me

or is, is triggering to me, I,

I've been practicing in

moments of low stress

or in moments of daily

stress, those skills

that are regulating for me.

And I can use that in that moment.

I can do my deep breathing

or whatever, you know,

- It might be that thing that

you, I figured out you do

before you come on shift, you know?

Exactly. Before, before

you get out of your car.

It's like, I'm gonna take three minutes

and I'm gonna listen to a

song that's gonna Right.

Help me relax or,

or get me fired up for whatever

I'm gonna be doing next.

Get me in that right mental state to kind

of switch gears transition. Yeah.

- In baseball, we call

that your walkup music

for when you're walking up

with the plate to, to, to hit.

Well, same kind of the

thing that'll get you

motivated in a good spot.

- So yeah. Your hype song. Yeah,

your hype song. There you go.

- That works for me too. Hype song.

Mine would be, by the way, YY Sacks.

So if you, if you, you know, look

that up sometime, it'll make you laugh.

- Okay. Because I,

- I always think of life as as fun.

So, alright,

- So are you gonna change that song?

Will that song be the intro music

for this podcast then? Just this one?

- I don't think we have

permission for that.

We have to use it.

- It's gotta be like under 15 second

clip in order to use it.

Something like that. Copyright loss.

- We don't, we don't have

the copyright for that. No,

- That'd be great though.

- It would be hilarious. Alright.

Anyway, so, well, Olivia,

Olivia Kaplan, we would love

to thank you for joining us today

and sharing about trauma-informed care

and trauma-informed support.

It's, it's, it's, it's

been a gas actually.

So everyone out there,

thanks for joining us.

I hope you enjoyed this

as much as we did tune in

for future episodes about

taking care of our physical

and mental health needs as

direct support professionals.

All our episodes are available at Spotify

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We also invite you to

listen to other podcasts

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also developed at the Institute

on Community Integration.

Take a closer look at Frontline Initiative

where there are some

more podcasts for you.

- Wellness matters for direct

support is for the health,

for wellness, and self-care of

direct support professionals

because your wellness does matter.

Thank you, and we'll see

you on our next podcast.