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Doing what's obvious, but not easy
Episode 217th June 2021 • Strategy and the Virtual Controller • Penny Breslin & Damien Greathead
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What are you in business to do? Today's episode focuses on asking yourself the hard question of do you enjoy what you're doing? Or have you just fallen into being a Jack (or Jill) of all trades. Especially what we've been through in the last 15 months, now is the time to be very intentional about what you want to do. It's OK to say no, and in fact you need to become comfortable with saying no. Saying no will give you the capacity to focus on what's important to growing your business.

We discuss a Harvard Business Review article Creating a Purpose Driven Organization.

Make sure you read the book that gave us the inspiration for this podcast: Strategy and the Fat Smoker. Buy it on Amazon.

Connect with us and send us your questions:

Penny Breslin - LinkedIn | @PennyB57

Damien Greathead - LinkedIn | @Damien_GH

Transcripts

Damien Greathead:

And we're back episode number two of strategy

Damien Greathead:

and the virtual controller. I was listening to a webcast the

Damien Greathead:

other day penny. And they were saying that most podcasts rarely

Damien Greathead:

get beyond eight episodes. And I know one hour episode planning

Damien Greathead:

were well and truly beyond eight episodes. So I'm delighted to be

Damien Greathead:

here with you today for Episode Two how I say Penny,

Rita Breslin:

I'm doing fine, got my vaccine and ready to rock

Rita Breslin:

and roll out of town here in about a week or so.

Damien Greathead:

Getting back on the road after the vaccine.

Damien Greathead:

When was the last time you were on a plane?

Rita Breslin:

flying back from India through Hong Kong and

Rita Breslin:

landing in San Diego in January of 2020. And having one of my

Rita Breslin:

sisters who worked at a at a hospital call me ago, I heard

Rita Breslin:

that you were in Asia. Yeah. chuckles Tell me what was going

Rita Breslin:

on. And I explained to get ready, this is going to get

Rita Breslin:

messy. Last time I was

Damien Greathead:

looking forward to getting back on a

Damien Greathead:

plane. My goodness, that's exciting. Yeah, because the

Damien Greathead:

world and particularly that the accounting world, which was

Damien Greathead:

spent on copy at conferences and visiting firms, and obviously

Damien Greathead:

visiting the firm in India, that was the norm. So not not doing

Damien Greathead:

that for 12 months, as has been a bit of a change, hasn't it?

Rita Breslin:

Yeah, and not having conferences for me, you

Rita Breslin:

know, virtual work was, you know, we do we did we live in?

Rita Breslin:

We will I mean, resume and Slack, you know, so either way,

Rita Breslin:

we're aware, that wasn't a big deal. But still, you know, I'd

Rita Breslin:

narrowly I would have been over in India by now. And then, also,

Rita Breslin:

we had, we had tickets booked for different conferences where

Rita Breslin:

my team was coming from India, United States. And because they

Rita Breslin:

come over here and get training, so it just, it was different.

Rita Breslin:

And then also dealing with clients who, you know, all of a

Rita Breslin:

sudden, you've been wanting them, you got to get rich, just

Rita Breslin:

in case, you know, and all of a sudden it had to happen had to

Rita Breslin:

happen. And that was that was an interesting endeavor.

Damien Greathead:

Yeah, we've come we've we've sort of

Damien Greathead:

interesting, we've been you. And I've been talking about a lot of

Damien Greathead:

these key key elements of this transformation for 10 plus

Damien Greathead:

years. But it seems to take a global pandemic for for people

Damien Greathead:

to finally stand up and take notice and actually do a lot of

Damien Greathead:

the things that we've been talking about for a long time

Damien Greathead:

didn't.

Rita Breslin:

Yeah, and again, I think, I think one of the things

Rita Breslin:

that comes back as it cuts for us full circle, you can be

Rita Breslin:

virtual, and you can do a lot of things virtually, but you still

Rita Breslin:

have to have the first thing going for you. And that is

Rita Breslin:

relationship. Yeah. And, and so, you know, people are raring to

Rita Breslin:

get back into it. There's all this Scot discussion about how

Rita Breslin:

often we're going to go back, what's the new normal, you know,

Rita Breslin:

all of that, but it's all about the thing that people have been

Rita Breslin:

missing is the relationship. And, and it doesn't just apply

Rita Breslin:

to a firm and their clients, it's within the firm internally,

Rita Breslin:

the relationships that get built, and the trust that gets

Rita Breslin:

built in a team that works together. And, and being able,

Rita Breslin:

having that trust in the first place. And going virtual, is a

Rita Breslin:

far different cry than not maybe having it and then going

Rita Breslin:

virtual. And that was definitely a discussion I had with the firm

Rita Breslin:

this morning about how they've had that problem.

Damien Greathead:

Yeah, and I'm looking forward to learning more

Damien Greathead:

about that, as we were discussing prepping for this

Damien Greathead:

episode. But before we do that, just a bit of housekeeping

Damien Greathead:

folks, the website for the podcast strategy, and the

Damien Greathead:

virtual controller is s a t v c.co. So sh t vc.co. Go there,

Damien Greathead:

you can obviously, like the episode review the episode, you

Damien Greathead:

can find any articles because we'll be talking about the

Damien Greathead:

different books and different articles. You can find those and

Damien Greathead:

links to all of those at that website as well. So sa t vc.co

Damien Greathead:

is the website for strategy and the virtual controller just

Damien Greathead:

wanted to remind listeners as well Penny about the sort of the

Damien Greathead:

premise of what we built the podcast on and it was the book

Damien Greathead:

by David maister, which is called strategy in the fat

Damien Greathead:

smoker. And I think the most important part of the title is

Damien Greathead:

the is the subtitle that is doing what's obvious, but not

Damien Greathead:

easy. And so a quick a quick overview of the book is

Damien Greathead:

regarding the often or even usually know what we should be

Damien Greathead:

doing in both our personal and professional lives. We also know

Damien Greathead:

why we should be doing it and how often so we know these

Damien Greathead:

things. And the same is true in our firms, the things that we

Damien Greathead:

should be doing and Why we should be doing it. So figuring

Damien Greathead:

all that out, it's not too difficult. What's the very hard

Damien Greathead:

part is actually doing what you know, to be good for you in the

Damien Greathead:

long run in spite of short run temptations. And so what we're

Damien Greathead:

really talking about is, we know the strategies that they're out

Damien Greathead:

there in the ether, in in books and on websites and in podcasts.

Damien Greathead:

And in webinars. Now, it's the actual hard part of choosing

Damien Greathead:

which strategies you want to pursue, identifying which ones

Damien Greathead:

are going to be good for you in the long run, and then doing the

Damien Greathead:

hard work to get them implemented. So if you haven't

Damien Greathead:

read strategy in the fat smoker, really great book. And again,

Damien Greathead:

you can find the link on the podcast website, which is sa

Damien Greathead:

tvc.co. You can find the link there and order that off Amazon.

Damien Greathead:

But a really fascinating read about we know what's obvious to

Damien Greathead:

do for ourselves for our firm, but actually doing it day in

Damien Greathead:

day, day out for the long run. That's the really difficult

Damien Greathead:

part. So have a read of his book. And that will give you a

Damien Greathead:

little bit of inspiration to come on this journey with us. So

Damien Greathead:

Penny, while we're here, sort of talking a little bit about us a

Damien Greathead:

little bit about the podcast, your company's called money,

Damien Greathead:

Penny, tell us who you are, what you do, and who were the types

Damien Greathead:

of clients that you work with?

Rita Breslin:

Well, let's see, I am a facilitator between

Rita Breslin:

accounting firms, bookkeeping firms, and an outsourced back

Rita Breslin:

office full of trained accountants who know how to run

Rita Breslin:

just about every not American based in some other outside

Rita Breslin:

North America based accounting programs and tax programs. We do

Rita Breslin:

that, plus we test apps, integrating two accounting

Rita Breslin:

programs.

Damien Greathead:

And fundamentally, what you're doing

Damien Greathead:

is you're helping firms with the process with their workflow with

Damien Greathead:

the automate level of automation, and then bringing in

Damien Greathead:

the right resources to load balances. That's a fair way.

Rita Breslin:

How do you insource the work? And then how

Rita Breslin:

do you prep it so that the people on your team, whether

Rita Breslin:

they're internal to your office, or external to your office, or

Rita Breslin:

they're an app? How does that all flow together to get an end

Rita Breslin:

result for the client end result is you have a good relationship

Rita Breslin:

with the client? And you're doing value added work for the

Rita Breslin:

client?

Damien Greathead:

What do you mean by insource? The

Rita Breslin:

work, okay, you got a client? And you need to,

Rita Breslin:

if you're going to, you got to decide who's going to run the

Rita Breslin:

company. Okay, let's call it a business because it is a

Rita Breslin:

business. Yep, this is Apple's to do some type of accounting.

Rita Breslin:

So you who's going to run your business? You are the client,

Rita Breslin:

you are the employees, you are the apps? Who's gonna run it?

Rita Breslin:

And who's gonna make the decision on how all of that is

Rita Breslin:

going to happen? And what's the backup strategy when it fails?

Rita Breslin:

because nothing's perfect. So that's, that's what I work at.

Rita Breslin:

Because I've got it, I've got to insource the work to me, and to

Rita Breslin:

my team. So in order for that to happen efficiently, you've got

Rita Breslin:

to insource it to your office efficiently. So I start with

Rita Breslin:

that first, then, once that's moving smoothly, if you need us,

Rita Breslin:

we're there, then we build the team to match the needs of that

Rita Breslin:

firm.

Damien Greathead:

Okay, and what I was thinking in terms of what

Damien Greathead:

is insourcing, it's essentially going to your clients, your

Damien Greathead:

small, medium sized business clients and saying to them,

Damien Greathead:

you're experts at making widgets, whatever those widgets

Damien Greathead:

may be, we're experts at accounting. So we will take off

Damien Greathead:

that accounting function off your hands off your plate, get

Damien Greathead:

that done for you, so that you can use your very limited

Damien Greathead:

resources for to focus on what you do best. And I think that's

Damien Greathead:

really a part of it as well, isn't it is when we're in the

Damien Greathead:

business of accounting, that's what we do best. So let us work

Damien Greathead:

with your business so that you can focus on on making the

Damien Greathead:

widgets and doing what you do best, and we will insource that,

Damien Greathead:

that accounting function for you.

Rita Breslin:

Yeah, but if you do that, you have to decide

Rita Breslin:

that's what you really want to do.

Damien Greathead:

Yeah,

Damien Greathead:

I mean, good point. Yeah. Because that's true. Because

Damien Greathead:

businesses that do accounting there's a couple of different

Damien Greathead:

things that they can they can do. Isn't isn't their job. They

Damien Greathead:

can be a tax practice, they can be a payroll firm, they can be a

Damien Greathead:

what's hard

Rita Breslin:

and a lot of an audit for them?

Damien Greathead:

Yeah, absolutely,

Rita Breslin:

they could do a, you got to make that decision,

Rita Breslin:

they could be off just I just want to do after the fact,

Rita Breslin:

bookkeeping, I want to just sit here and do that, you got to,

Rita Breslin:

this is something that if you want to do it, and you want to

Rita Breslin:

present to your client that you're going to do it, it has to

Rita Breslin:

it, you've made a promise it has to work, it, it actually has to

Rita Breslin:

happen, that you can't just put out there, we are a firm of the

Rita Breslin:

future, an advisory firm, we are a you know, fractional CFO,

Rita Breslin:

there has to be some give back to the client, the if you're

Rita Breslin:

going to do that, if you're going to say, give me all that

Rita Breslin:

stuff, you go make your widgets, you go sell your services, you

Rita Breslin:

go do whatever it is that you do, and I'll take care of all of

Rita Breslin:

this, then there has to be some reason, and that they would give

Rita Breslin:

it to you, that supersedes what they perceive is them being able

Rita Breslin:

to do it internally and control it internally. Because they're

Rita Breslin:

giving up a lot with the expectation of getting something

Rita Breslin:

important back that makes it worthwhile for them to, you

Rita Breslin:

know, follow your rules to get the stuff coming in.

Damien Greathead:

And I think that's the trap that a lot of

Damien Greathead:

firms make isn't fall into rather, is that they become the

Damien Greathead:

generalists across everything. As they're trying to grow their

Damien Greathead:

business and and and shore up their revenue, they take on

Damien Greathead:

anything, they take on everything, they take on a bit

Damien Greathead:

of bookkeeping, they take on a bit of tax, they take on a bit

Damien Greathead:

of payroll, depending on what they are, they may not take on

Damien Greathead:

audit, but I have seen firms that will though the the name

Damien Greathead:

sort of grows from accountants to accountants and advisors, and

Damien Greathead:

all of a sudden, you go to their website and there's this long

Damien Greathead:

laundry list of every single service that they've ever

Damien Greathead:

provided. Never really become an expert in one and and so I think

Damien Greathead:

that really is the the topic of today's conversation becoming

Damien Greathead:

laser focused on what it is that you want to do. And also being

Damien Greathead:

comfortable with this idea of this is not this is not what I

Damien Greathead:

want to do. Yes. And and making that delineation. So Penny,

Damien Greathead:

what's your sort of experiences in the firm's that you've worked

Damien Greathead:

with, in terms of firms that have quickly and easily or not,

Damien Greathead:

maybe not quickly, but have identified who they are and what

Damien Greathead:

they want to be when they grow up versus others?

Rita Breslin:

Well, it, it's, I think it's obviously easier for

Rita Breslin:

a newer startup, you know, mainly because they come into

Rita Breslin:

the game in the middle of this can highly connected world with

Rita Breslin:

lots and lots of good quality apps and training from those

Rita Breslin:

apps to assist them. And moving along. The decision making of

Rita Breslin:

whether they're going to be an accounting firm, a bookkeeping

Rita Breslin:

firm, are a virtual controller, our partial CFO, fractional CFO,

Rita Breslin:

those are much easier. And it goes along smoothly with those

Rita Breslin:

folks. They start with us small. And then before you know it,

Rita Breslin:

they're just throwing work at us like crazy, because they

Rita Breslin:

actually have the relationship with the client, they went into

Rita Breslin:

with that idea. It's much more difficult, I think for firms

Rita Breslin:

that are already well established with especially if

Rita Breslin:

they do all of those things that you brought in the priority

Rita Breslin:

silo, the firm. And by siloing it the adoption of something

Rita Breslin:

that is transparent, such as a workflow tasking application is

Rita Breslin:

difficult for them to accept. And so it's just it's kind of

Rita Breslin:

like, well, these are my clients, and I like them this

Rita Breslin:

way. And I do it this way. Yeah, but the firm wants to do it. We

Rita Breslin:

want to do this fractional CFO, and you know, we can't do it

Rita Breslin:

without everybody being involved. So you kind of have

Rita Breslin:

to, if you're the firm partner, or partners, owners, you first

Rita Breslin:

have to decide, do you want to do this? And what is this? What

Rita Breslin:

is it that you define as your fractional CFO controller client

Rita Breslin:

advisory? What's your definition of it? What do you what do you

Rita Breslin:

picture you doing that makes that so special? What's what is

Rita Breslin:

the deliver of Well, that you plan on giving to that client.

Rita Breslin:

I'm working right now with the firm that has an idea in mind.

Rita Breslin:

And that they wanted, they go, Well, we got to get branded, we

Rita Breslin:

got, we got to get a logo, we got to get a website got and I

Rita Breslin:

said yes, you do you do. And here's, here's somebody will do

Rita Breslin:

that is because they came to me and I said, Okay, we've got

Rita Breslin:

something to do that. I said, Now, all of that's being done,

Rita Breslin:

let's talk about what you're going to deliver. What is it

Rita Breslin:

that you're going to deliver, you got a nice idea. But you've

Rita Breslin:

got to give the client something. And I don't mean like

Rita Breslin:

a piece of paper or anything. But you've got to give them a

Rita Breslin:

reason to want to come back every month, and do this again

Rita Breslin:

with you.

Damien Greathead:

And I think that's a really good point is

Damien Greathead:

that we will will touch the touch on this in another episode

Damien Greathead:

as well. But what is a fractional CFO? What is what is

Damien Greathead:

an advisor? What is an advisory? And I think a lot of small,

Damien Greathead:

medium sized businesses, they all need these types of

Damien Greathead:

services, but they don't know why. And they don't know what

Damien Greathead:

they actually are like, I understand the benefit of a cash

Damien Greathead:

flow forecast. But do your small business owners? And do they

Damien Greathead:

really understand it? Do they

Rita Breslin:

do they why you why you need to have those

Rita Breslin:

documents, do it. And if they don't value it, if they don't

Rita Breslin:

understand it, they're not going to give it to you. And if

Rita Breslin:

they're not going to give it to you, then your whole idea of

Rita Breslin:

being a fractional CFO means you're not closing the books

Rita Breslin:

every month. Now you could say, well, you know, we're using

Rita Breslin:

QuickBooks and 00. And they don't close the books and like

Rita Breslin:

they do they do they create a monthly report. And and what's

Rita Breslin:

the value of that monthly report? Well, then you're

Rita Breslin:

looking at that report, right. And on a certain day, every

Rita Breslin:

month, you know, this client, their books are going to be

Rita Breslin:

done, they're going to be close. And you can guarantee those

Rita Breslin:

numbers and you can look at those numbers. And you can

Rita Breslin:

compare them to not only prior months, but you can compare them

Rita Breslin:

to what you now know about that client. Because you've had the

Rita Breslin:

time as the CFO to learn about the client, you've developed a

Rita Breslin:

relationship. So now you can talk to them about their

Rita Breslin:

business, not about a p&l or balance sheet. Which doesn't

Rita Breslin:

mean anything to them. It doesn't mean anything, unless

Rita Breslin:

the goal for a bank loan is something really,

Damien Greathead:

yeah. And what are you

Rita Breslin:

providing? What's your deliverable? What is it

Rita Breslin:

that you do? That's so good, that somebody is going to pay

Rita Breslin:

you a reoccurring flat fee every month, and follow every rule and

Rita Breslin:

use every app that you give them the way you want them to use it?

Rita Breslin:

To make your life easier to be a CFO? What are you giving back?

Rita Breslin:

And that's where I have seen over and over again, the fail,

Rita Breslin:

and you go in and you get it you get you get it? somebody goes,

Rita Breslin:

Okay, we want you to do a bookkeeping, and you know, the

Rita Breslin:

books are okay, and we got all the feeds coming in. And we'll

Rita Breslin:

go in and we'll go, Yeah, but you haven't accepted anything

Rita Breslin:

from the feeds for the last four months. And nothing's been

Rita Breslin:

reconciled in this account for six months. And you're on your

Rita Breslin:

website saying that you're you're doing fractional CFO

Rita Breslin:

services, or you're doing client advisory services? What do you

Rita Breslin:

advise them on? And when? What was the deliverable that you

Rita Breslin:

gave them? And if they gave you that flat rate? How much time

Rita Breslin:

are you spending? Asking? Where is it? Where is it? Where is it

Rita Breslin:

and not getting it? used up? Even the modicum of profit,

Rita Breslin:

you're going to make off that flat rate, and you just didn't,

Rita Breslin:

everybody's just frustrated, and nobody's happy, and you're not

Rita Breslin:

doing what you want to do.

Damien Greathead:

And so basically, what's happening

Damien Greathead:

there is that the clients not bought into this process of

Damien Greathead:

using the applications, the team's not bought into using the

Damien Greathead:

do it following the process, accepting the transactions, etc.

Damien Greathead:

Because they don't understand why they don't understand what

Damien Greathead:

the deliverable is. And I think I think a lot of firms over

Damien Greathead:

complicate it. I think, a lot of firms, a lot of firms, either

Damien Greathead:

overcomplicate it, and then combine that with old processes.

Damien Greathead:

To your point. Yeah, to your point about we need to accept

Damien Greathead:

the transactions on a regular basis on a daily basis on a

Damien Greathead:

weekly basis. You see a lot of firms that are that are trying

Damien Greathead:

to run this service, but only coming into a client's books

Damien Greathead:

once a month. And there's no way that you're going to be able to

Damien Greathead:

process all of the data at once a month, because that's what

Damien Greathead:

they used to do in there right updates when when it was just

Damien Greathead:

half a day dedicated to a particular client. But to be

Damien Greathead:

successful it is you need to be in the clients books every

Damien Greathead:

couple of days, don't you?

Rita Breslin:

Well, yeah, depending on the size of the

Rita Breslin:

client, you do, but you also need to be in them, if nothing

Rita Breslin:

else, just to get an understanding of the client. I

Rita Breslin:

mean, you if you're looking at a lot of data, once a month on a

Rita Breslin:

client, hey, you know, it was It's not unusual to get somebody

Rita Breslin:

who has 300 transactions a day coming in, because all the feeds

Rita Breslin:

can because of the kind of business or I will see that all

Rita Breslin:

the time. How are you going to know if there's an issue that

Rita Breslin:

you need to deal with? Or bring up to the client? Or if there's

Rita Breslin:

potential here, you know, maybe it's time for you to get a 401k.

Rita Breslin:

Maybe it's time for you to open up a money market account, if

Rita Breslin:

they're a smaller new startup business, maybe it's time that

Rita Breslin:

you know, you, you know, what, why, why is this? Why these

Rita Breslin:

transactions so out of whack, compared to what we saw last

Rita Breslin:

month, or in like the last six months,

Damien Greathead:

the last time of your example, last time of

Damien Greathead:

Ramon Ramon, what are these every every couple of months,

Damien Greathead:

there's a $10,000 transaction that's that that is being

Damien Greathead:

reported as income? What is that just being able to ask those

Damien Greathead:

questions,

Rita Breslin:

be able to ask that question. And, and if

Rita Breslin:

you're not in them on a regular basis, and it doesn't need to be

Rita Breslin:

you, if you're the if you're the partner owner, you are the

Rita Breslin:

person driving this inside you that has to be in there all the

Rita Breslin:

time. But certainly, if you've got a team, you your team is

Rita Breslin:

somebody is touching that clients books, enough to know

Rita Breslin:

the client, so that when you do talk to them, because you should

Rita Breslin:

as a deliverable, if you're going to be somebody's

Rita Breslin:

fractional CFO, client, advisor, controller, whatever you want, I

Rita Breslin:

sure as heck Hope you're talking to them every month, at minimum,

Rita Breslin:

at minimum, that you're speaking to them, one on one, you know

Rita Breslin:

that this is a in the days of COVID, either a virtual meeting,

Rita Breslin:

but certainly outside of that, and we get into the end of it

Rita Breslin:

Fingers crossed, that you actually meet with this person

Rita Breslin:

and this business, to you know, develop that relationship, and

Rita Breslin:

to get a feel for it. because let me tell you something, it's

Rita Breslin:

not always just in the numbers. It's It's, it's, it's, you know,

Rita Breslin:

you got to look at a person and see if they're sweating or not,

Rita Breslin:

and why. But if you're not doing that, you're really not doing

Rita Breslin:

what your website says you're doing. So admitted, sit down, we

Rita Breslin:

you know, in that, in that book, you know, I just I put here's a

Rita Breslin:

list of what the world considers client advisory in a general

Rita Breslin:

because it's different with every firm, but sit down and

Rita Breslin:

look at it. Here's all the things that you do in your firm.

Rita Breslin:

just list them. What is it that you really want to do? And I

Rita Breslin:

think that's what I do.

Damien Greathead:

Yeah, because it's easy to put on on your

Damien Greathead:

website, advisory or part time controller, or just add another

Damien Greathead:

line item to the to the exhaustive growing list on

Rita Breslin:

marketing people told you to do it.

Damien Greathead:

Yeah. But but the realization is to actually

Damien Greathead:

do this successfully, you need time you need resources, you,

Damien Greathead:

you need to you need the clients. It's not just as easy

Damien Greathead:

as putting it on our website. And we'll do it for one or two

Damien Greathead:

clients that request it, it really has to form a part of

Damien Greathead:

your core value proposition, doesn't it? And it actually

Damien Greathead:

means letting go the few things because

Rita Breslin:

because if you have if you got if you got your

Rita Breslin:

old stuff, your old processes, they're all means doing things.

Rita Breslin:

It's too damn easy to fall back into that. It's way too easy for

Rita Breslin:

somebody to come in and say, Yeah, but I'm not going to do it

Rita Breslin:

that way. It's way too easy to submitted, say, you have a

Rita Breslin:

client doesn't want to do that. It's, you know, it's, it's, it's

Rita Breslin:

just, you're either in for a penny in for a pump, if you got

Rita Breslin:

to put it on your website. And if you're going to go to a

Rita Breslin:

client, you're going to sell them CFO, fractional CFO

Rita Breslin:

services or advisory services, then what are you going to

Rita Breslin:

deliver, that makes it valuable enough for them to follow

Rita Breslin:

through on what you need for them to do all these apps that

Rita Breslin:

are out there? That and and I could go through a litany of

Rita Breslin:

them because we I did this morning with a client. It's like

Rita Breslin:

if the client doesn't use these apps that you give them, then

Rita Breslin:

everything fails. Everything fails, sorry, sorry, you just

Rita Breslin:

bought an expensive app and you and you just spent a lot of time

Rita Breslin:

learning it and you gave it to a client and the client never used

Rita Breslin:

it. So you're back to picking up the phone and begging for

Rita Breslin:

something. What makes them want to use it is the fact that the

Rita Breslin:

first time they use it, they get a yay from you and a piece of

Rita Breslin:

information that they did not know and you gave them some kind

Rita Breslin:

of value.

Damien Greathead:

And my classic example there Penny is when we

Damien Greathead:

worked at when I worked at receipt bank and you talked we

Damien Greathead:

talked to her a number of firms The you're absolutely right that

Damien Greathead:

they would stumble at the first hurdle, which was getting the

Damien Greathead:

app in their clients hands and getting their clients to use it

Damien Greathead:

snapping pictures of the receipts of the of the bills as

Damien Greathead:

that and most importantly doing it as they're coming in. So

Damien Greathead:

while they're waiting for their coffee, snapping a picture of

Damien Greathead:

it, as soon as the at&t bill comes in, snapping a picture of

Damien Greathead:

it, scanning it, forwarding it, whatever it is, and and when we

Damien Greathead:

dug into it, the reason being it was the conversation that was

Damien Greathead:

happening between the the accountant and the client. And

Damien Greathead:

it typically went something like this and it was Penny, I need

Damien Greathead:

you to use this this app called receipt bank. Because it's going

Damien Greathead:

to make my life easier, it's going to get me all the

Damien Greathead:

information that I need to do my job. And almost immediately, you

Damien Greathead:

saw the the eyes roll back in the clients head because they're

Damien Greathead:

like, Wait, you're charging me a fortune. And now you're giving

Damien Greathead:

me this stuff that I'm probably paying for to make your life

Damien Greathead:

easier. I don't get it. I'm not bought into this, I you know,

Damien Greathead:

I'm not bought into this. Whereas the most successful

Damien Greathead:

firms that we saw were, didn't really talk about our role. But

Damien Greathead:

they talked about the accountants role, but they

Damien Greathead:

talked about that deliverable. Penny, I need you to use this

Damien Greathead:

app, because what it means is on the first day or the second day

Damien Greathead:

of every month, we're going to be able to provide you with your

Damien Greathead:

p&l with your this month versus last month, we're able to

Damien Greathead:

provide you with your your month to date year to date reports

Damien Greathead:

that we're going to sit down and have a conversation about that

Damien Greathead:

was the deliverable. And that's what the client valued. And that

Damien Greathead:

is what got the client engaged in this whole process and

Damien Greathead:

adoption of technology. So that's really important is

Damien Greathead:

understanding, Mr. Mrs. client, I need you to do a certain

Damien Greathead:

activity back to your what's in it for me. And then here's why

Damien Greathead:

you need to do it. And it has nothing to do with me. But it

Damien Greathead:

has everything to do with you and your business.

Rita Breslin:

I have to sometimes we take on direct

Rita Breslin:

businesses. And I've got two CFOs that have hired us to do

Rita Breslin:

and there were startups to get them started using and in one

Rita Breslin:

case, the guy didn't have any software in place, not

Rita Breslin:

whatsoever. And to get them to use the apps. It was it was

Rita Breslin:

always like, why should I do this? Okay, I would put them on

Rita Breslin:

a zoom meeting. And I would show them the workflow. And then I

Rita Breslin:

would show them, this is what you will get. And this is when

Rita Breslin:

you would get it. So in both cases, they they they each took

Rita Breslin:

different apps, the ones that I showed them, the good because

Rita Breslin:

they got what was comfortable for them in their company based

Rita Breslin:

on their employees. And the way they work. They both had were

Rita Breslin:

project based. They both had to track by project expenses and

Rita Breslin:

income. They both had a lot of similarities. But it was all in

Rita Breslin:

how they wanted to look at things. And it took a good one

Rita Breslin:

to two months of me playing around with stuff and showing

Rita Breslin:

him in every m it was always constantly, what's it going to

Rita Breslin:

look like for me? What am I going to get from this? How is

Rita Breslin:

this going to make my life easier? Her over and over and

Rita Breslin:

over again? And it was kind of like you? Oh, oh, and it? That's

Rita Breslin:

great. Oh my God, oh, you know, you get though you get that zoom

Rita Breslin:

want and they would go that worked Perfect. Okay, put that

Rita Breslin:

together. And, you know, and this is I'm not, I'm not gonna

Rita Breslin:

do any of the accounting. When we're not responsible for

Rita Breslin:

anything other than making sure the data is in the right place.

Rita Breslin:

Here. We're just playing traffic cop. That's all we're doing. The

Rita Breslin:

CFO goes to companies, each of them has to provide a

Rita Breslin:

deliverable to their board every month. And we give it to them.

Rita Breslin:

And they manage the whole thing. But they are using the apps that

Rita Breslin:

we gave them 100% because they got what they needed.

Damien Greathead:

And I think that's a really good point.

Damien Greathead:

Actually, it's gonna take time, whether it's your clients,

Damien Greathead:

whether it's your team, it's going to take time and

Damien Greathead:

reinforcement and repetition, repetition, repetition. And I

Damien Greathead:

think a lot of again, I think someone will probably strike me

Damien Greathead:

down for this. But I think the Intuit firm the future and a few

Damien Greathead:

of the sort of you've got to jump into advisory. I think

Damien Greathead:

they've done accountants and bookkeepers a bit of a

Damien Greathead:

disservice because they've given this idea that if you build it,

Damien Greathead:

they will come that oh, I put it on the website and my clients

Damien Greathead:

will be falling over themselves. The older the surveys have said

Damien Greathead:

small business clients want their accountant to give so that

Damien Greathead:

they'll be falling over themselves to take up these

Damien Greathead:

services. But again, most small businesses don't really know

Damien Greathead:

what a CFO does. Most small business don't know what advisor

Damien Greathead:

is, most accounting firms don't know what advisor is, your team

Damien Greathead:

certainly doesn't know what's going on and how you're going to

Damien Greathead:

deliver it. So it is really important to get clear about who

Damien Greathead:

you are and what you're delivering, why you're

Damien Greathead:

delivering it. And then you've got to drill it into into your

Damien Greathead:

team, your partners, your clients, to get their buy into

Damien Greathead:

this process. I mean, I always remember the example of it took

Damien Greathead:

me a long time to get addicted to smoking, you had to be really

Damien Greathead:

dedicated to get addicted to smoking. Because that first

Damien Greathead:

experience, there's no way that there's no way that if that

Damien Greathead:

anyone would continue to smoke. And so I don't think it's not

Damien Greathead:

the right, not the right analogy here. But repetition is really

Damien Greathead:

critical. And that's why I think having clear clarity on who you

Damien Greathead:

are, and what you want to be is really, really important. And

Damien Greathead:

you

Rita Breslin:

don't have to do all of that. If it's not what

Rita Breslin:

floats your boat, if it's not what gets you up out of bed in

Rita Breslin:

the morning, if you don't want to be that kind of firm. Okay,

Rita Breslin:

no problem, there's a lot out there that still needs to be

Rita Breslin:

faced, like audit work and compliance work that needs to be

Rita Breslin:

done. You don't have to be that. But if you want to be that, then

Rita Breslin:

you have to focus on it. And then if you have other people

Rita Breslin:

working with you, be they partners or employees, you all

Rita Breslin:

have to talk the same language. Or everybody has to say the same

Rita Breslin:

thing with the CLI. Nobody can say, Don't worry, I'll take care

Rita Breslin:

of that for you. And then backpedal on something and allow

Rita Breslin:

it to fall. If you're not, it's, it's everybody's got to be in on

Rita Breslin:

this. Everybody has to be a team player, everybody. And I mean,

Rita Breslin:

everybody. I don't mean just the accountants and bookkeepers in

Rita Breslin:

your firm. I mean, your administrative staff too. And

Rita Breslin:

the apps that you work, they all have to be fit into what you

Rita Breslin:

want. And there are a lot of apps out there. But if

Rita Breslin:

something's working for you, and it's working via clients, then

Rita Breslin:

you don't you know, it doesn't hurt to have somebody that can

Rita Breslin:

look at new and upcoming apps, there's certainly changes that

Rita Breslin:

are occurring. But But still, if it's working, everybody should

Rita Breslin:

be in everybody, if you're going to have a workflow. Everybody

Rita Breslin:

should be in the workflow. Oh, yeah. Whether whether they've

Rita Breslin:

got an active client or not, whether they are actually

Rita Breslin:

working on a client, they could just be an admin staff, they

Rita Breslin:

could be just a high level CPA, who never really does any of

Rita Breslin:

that tasking. They got to be able to see what's going on.

Damien Greathead:

And how many times have you gone into a firm

Damien Greathead:

where there's maybe three partners and three different

Damien Greathead:

ways to prepare a tax return?

Rita Breslin:

Oh, God, yeah. It doesn't, that's not going to

Rita Breslin:

work. In this kind of, of a world. Yes, that's what that

Rita Breslin:

that is not gonna work, you can do that if all you want to do is

Rita Breslin:

detect. And let me tell you, there are so many clients that

Rita Breslin:

we have the just strictly bookkeeping firms, and they love

Rita Breslin:

having the relationship with the client, they send us all the

Rita Breslin:

traffic cop work to do they have the relationship with the

Rita Breslin:

client. And invariably, I get calls, do you know a CPA just

Rita Breslin:

wants to do tax returns? Yes, it is, there is, if that's all you

Rita Breslin:

want to do. There's nothing wrong with it. And there's

Rita Breslin:

plenty of work out there to do it. So, like, you'll run into

Rita Breslin:

somebody got you know, I asked somebody who needs an audit, and

Rita Breslin:

I don't do that. And I don't want to do that. And so I need

Rita Breslin:

to connect with another firm that does that. So but because

Rita Breslin:

these are these are firms that have said this is what we're

Rita Breslin:

going to do. This is what we like to do. And everybody in the

Rita Breslin:

companies in on the plant, nobody goes off script. I did

Rita Breslin:

that comparison between the two firms, which place would you

Rita Breslin:

rather work and and and the place that you know, everybody

Rita Breslin:

said raise the angle? Yeah, I want to work in that firm. I

Rita Breslin:

could tell you she she plans this out. Every year she goes

Rita Breslin:

through a major planning and review with her team. Where are

Rita Breslin:

we at? How did we do not from a standpoint of of, you know,

Rita Breslin:

client stuff, but how did it work for you? How did how did

Rita Breslin:

using these tools work? Did you see anything that was different

Rita Breslin:

that could be better? Are we all on the same page. She brings

Rita Breslin:

them in constantly but once a year. She has a Big Huge week

Rita Breslin:

with her team, and it's away from the office. And it's always

Rita Breslin:

in a beautiful setting, whether it's in a resort somewhere, and

Rita Breslin:

they just sit down, and they have a good time being a team,

Rita Breslin:

as well as working out, how did this work, what didn't work? And

Rita Breslin:

then the last thing is, now, how did that work for the clients

Rita Breslin:

and what didn't work for the clients. So start with what you

Rita Breslin:

want, get a team that wants what you want, and agrees with it,

Rita Breslin:

and then go find clients that are willing to come along

Rita Breslin:

because they like what you gave them. I have another client who,

Rita Breslin:

who he, he's great, he's he's at a Texas Ed, you know, he's

Rita Breslin:

strict about what dates he wants each client's books closed,

Rita Breslin:

because he has a meeting, and he has a set deliverable that he

Rita Breslin:

gives to them. And he's, he's on it, man. He's like, it'll be

Rita Breslin:

slacking me, Hey, we got a day, they're gonna get this done yet,

Rita Breslin:

don't worry, we will cool Don't worry about and it just, he, he

Rita Breslin:

holds to it, he doesn't let it slide, we let him know, if we're

Rita Breslin:

running into a time issue because we're not getting

Rita Breslin:

something that we need to complete it. He is on it with

Rita Breslin:

the client, hey, we're gonna have a meeting in three days,

Rita Breslin:

you need to give me that information. Otherwise, I'm not

Rita Breslin:

going to be able to give you everything that we usually do.

Rita Breslin:

You know, and all it took was a couple of times with clients to

Rita Breslin:

tell them that. But the thing is, he gave them that

Rita Breslin:

deliverable?

Damien Greathead:

Exactly a bit because that the client

Damien Greathead:

experience that they had the conversation about this month

Damien Greathead:

versus last month, or whatever happens in that meeting. And I'm

Damien Greathead:

assuming the clients perceived a little bit of value in that

Damien Greathead:

meeting, which was enough of that, that dopamine, if you

Damien Greathead:

will, to be like, Oh, yes, we're gonna get addicted to this,

Damien Greathead:

because this helps us make better decisions in our

Damien Greathead:

business.

Rita Breslin:

Oh, yeah, they're on a board of all of his

Rita Breslin:

clients, there are quite a few that we noticed that the amount

Rita Breslin:

of work that he's doing for them, and that he's sending over

Rita Breslin:

to us has increased greatly.

Damien Greathead:

I mean, it's one of those funny things that

Damien Greathead:

accountants always come back with more work whenever they sit

Damien Greathead:

in front of their clients. So how do we take up time, but

Damien Greathead:

again, we'll we'll build on that Penny, one of the articles that

Damien Greathead:

we've been discussing from Harvard is around creating a

Damien Greathead:

purpose driven organization and on the website will have a link

Damien Greathead:

to the article. So you can go in and have a read of it. But I

Damien Greathead:

thought it was interesting, because as with all things in

Damien Greathead:

Harvard, it's always talking about fortune 500 companies and

Damien Greathead:

the importance of this is how the world's biggest companies

Damien Greathead:

made made millions of dollars for their shareholders. What

Damien Greathead:

about first small medium size accounting and bookkeeping

Damien Greathead:

firms? And being a purpose driven organization? How How

Damien Greathead:

does that translate to these smaller firms, these smaller

Damien Greathead:

businesses that you and I are working with,

Rita Breslin:

or you you heard that story about the CPA that

Rita Breslin:

meets with her team once? They actually have brought me out to

Rita Breslin:

some of them. So I've actually sat in for the week. Last time

Rita Breslin:

was in the Dominican, so but I said, I'm not doing that, again,

Rita Breslin:

that's too long of a flight. But it's as long as going to India.

Rita Breslin:

But the, they have been like just last week. Sorry, on on.

Rita Breslin:

This was a zoom meeting with a very small firm. She is just now

Rita Breslin:

opening our second office, she has one in California, she's

Rita Breslin:

going to open one in Montana. And she has a meeting every week

Rita Breslin:

with our team in both places, but also she has every year she

Rita Breslin:

has it her mission statement of the year internally. And like

Rita Breslin:

two years ago, it was finding the the technology apps, her

Rita Breslin:

little black dress that she wanted to work with. And that

Rita Breslin:

would work well and that everybody could get in on then

Rita Breslin:

it was the next one was the next year was how do we make this

Rita Breslin:

process flow and and get the work done faster? And make sure

Rita Breslin:

that we're getting it timely done? And what are we delivering

Rita Breslin:

to the client? And now it's this year, it's client expectation.

Rita Breslin:

So everybody has that in front of them. What's the expectation

Rita Breslin:

of the client? And are we meeting it? What we've we've got

Rita Breslin:

the contracts in front us, we got the engagements in front of

Rita Breslin:

us, this is what we've promised them and are we meeting it and

Rita Breslin:

also asking the client, what's your experience of us? Are we

Rita Breslin:

hitting our mark, and so every year she's done something. And

Rita Breslin:

in although she's doing a lot of things in her firm She has

Rita Breslin:

something in front of her that she's focusing on, because it's

Rita Breslin:

huge to make these changes. And she's just she's the one we met

Rita Breslin:

her three years ago, she was just one account, working by

Rita Breslin:

yourself. Not go to office.

Damien Greathead:

Wow. And I think that's actually a really

Damien Greathead:

important point Penny is we don't need to save the world.

Damien Greathead:

You know, you sort of even the title of that article creating a

Damien Greathead:

purpose driven organization. It's up to you to define

Damien Greathead:

purpose, purpose in terms of your clients purpose in terms of

Damien Greathead:

your team. And I like the fact that just each year, we're going

Damien Greathead:

to chip away at a very particular part to drive us

Damien Greathead:

forward. And I think that's something that that hopefully

Damien Greathead:

listeners can take, can take away from today's episode is,

Damien Greathead:

you don't need to fix the world today. But if there's one small

Damien Greathead:

aspect, and hopefully today's is becoming really clear on why

Damien Greathead:

we're in business, what are we in business to do? And what are

Damien Greathead:

we not in business to do? So I think that's, that's something

Damien Greathead:

to really come away from today's episode is, what is it that you

Damien Greathead:

are? Why are you in business?

Rita Breslin:

Yeah. And you have to be happy, and you've got to

Rita Breslin:

be happy. And,

Damien Greathead:

yeah, I've seen a Venn diagram where

Damien Greathead:

there's happiness, revenue, and I can't remember what the third

Damien Greathead:

one is. I'll try and dig that out for the next episode. But

Damien Greathead:

it's very much this Venn diagram, where right in the

Damien Greathead:

middle is your sweet spot. And so that's where you should focus

Damien Greathead:

in terms of what are the types of services and clients that

Damien Greathead:

make you happy? What are the types of clients and services

Damien Greathead:

that are profitable. And then as I said, I can't remember that

Damien Greathead:

one down the bottom there, but there is definitely a Venn

Damien Greathead:

diagram of this sweet spot, that is where you should operate.

Rita Breslin:

And, you know, I think, I think it's, it's, it's

Rita Breslin:

much easier for a even small, medium sized firm, to be able to

Rita Breslin:

do that. I mean, if you're working in a huge, you know,

Rita Breslin:

mega, Super Regional, you know, big, huge firm, you're doing

Rita Breslin:

that by division. But it the, at the end of the day, you've got

Rita Breslin:

to love what you do. And your clients have to love the

Rita Breslin:

deliverable you're giving them. And if you can get those two

Rita Breslin:

things in sync, then you know, the clients are going to do what

Rita Breslin:

you want, you know, there's no more begging, they're going to

Rita Breslin:

be anxious to give you the information. They're going to be

Rita Breslin:

anxious to communicate with you. I know because I'm not just

Rita Breslin:

dealing with firms. I'm dealing with small businesses that come

Rita Breslin:

to me, and I tell them right up front, we'll get you better have

Rita Breslin:

a CPA, because I'm not going to be the last word when it comes

Rita Breslin:

to that kind of stuff. I'll do all the traffic cop you want, I

Rita Breslin:

will help facilitate it. But you know, they still keep on coming

Rita Breslin:

back. Because they're getting what what we told them they

Rita Breslin:

would get. I didn't over promise. And I didn't tell them

Rita Breslin:

I could do something that one I wasn't. I don't want to do.

Rita Breslin:

Could I be capable of doing something like that? Yes. Are

Rita Breslin:

you kidding me? I'm not stupid. And I've spent 25 years doing

Rita Breslin:

this working with accountants. And, and I've done a few tax

Rita Breslin:

returns in my life. I've met I've closed a few sets of books

Rita Breslin:

in my life. But it doesn't make me happy to do it. But I'm

Rita Breslin:

really honest. Like, Oh, God, now I know, I have not that kind

Rita Breslin:

of person. Right now. I'm sitting here talking to you and

Rita Breslin:

both knees to jumping up and down. And like I've sat one,

Rita Breslin:

squirrel.

Damien Greathead:

I mean, it's a good point, because I'm probably

Damien Greathead:

one that we'll finish on is he as he said, he'd done a few tax

Damien Greathead:

returns, you've closed a few sets of books in your time, your

Damien Greathead:

client wouldn't know a good set of books, you can actually turn

Damien Greathead:

it for him.

Rita Breslin:

I guess I could for some of them. I could I

Rita Breslin:

could, I could put anything out there. And they would be okay.

Damien Greathead:

But I do know if they get out. They do know if

Damien Greathead:

they've got enough cash in the bank to meet payroll. They do

Damien Greathead:

want to know if they've got enough cash to pay their bills.

Damien Greathead:

They want to know that they've got a little bit of cash that

Damien Greathead:

they can put into savings. They want to know that they grew last

Damien Greathead:

last month or last quarter.

Rita Breslin:

I had one the other day she's she called me.

Rita Breslin:

She goes okay, we plan on having a baby. Can you teach me how I

Rita Breslin:

can manage my money and my business a little bit better.

Rita Breslin:

And we looked through a p&l. I showed her a comparison what she

Rita Breslin:

did even during COVID how she did a little bit okay. And then

Rita Breslin:

I introduced her to the profit first method. I said, here's

Rita Breslin:

this book you need to read. And I'm going to tell you, you know

Rita Breslin:

what, let's open up a good interest money market account.

Rita Breslin:

You're not getting it from your bank. Let's open it up over

Rita Breslin:

here. gave her a flat FinTech ad. And I said, I don't care

Rita Breslin:

what you do just put this amount every month, you can manage

Rita Breslin:

that. Right? You can manage that, right? And she goes, Yeah,

Rita Breslin:

I can go go ahead do that every month. And, you know, her friend

Rita Breslin:

who told you I also do a bit book spa, she told her to have

Rita Breslin:

this conversation with me, because I with her, I told her

Rita Breslin:

two years ago to do this. And she's like, going, I can't

Rita Breslin:

believe how easy that was. And, you know, sometimes that's all

Rita Breslin:

it took. But that's about as far as I go. That's that. But I

Rita Breslin:

mean, that just was a little bit of a conversation that you can

Rita Breslin:

have with any client. And I know, I know, all of my firm

Rita Breslin:

clients would have found another way to make money off of that

Rita Breslin:

conversation. And I would have added value to that's not my

Rita Breslin:

business. And that's not what these clients are to me, because

Rita Breslin:

they're my guinea pigs. So but I mean, you know, how often do you

Rita Breslin:

get a call that says, hey, we're trying to have a baby, and I

Rita Breslin:

need to? What do you think I should do about putting some

Rita Breslin:

money away? We want to buy a house. And you know, my

Rita Breslin:

husband's doing really well, I'm doing, but we, what do you think

Rita Breslin:

we should do?

Damien Greathead:

And you want to be able to take that call,

Damien Greathead:

you don't want to you want to have the time to have that

Damien Greathead:

conversation, because that's where the value is. And so

Damien Greathead:

Penny, I think if we sort of round out today's episode, and

Damien Greathead:

we sort of start thinking about what we're going to touch on on

Damien Greathead:

on our next podcast episode. It's becoming taking some time

Damien Greathead:

out to become very clear on the types of services and the types

Damien Greathead:

of people that you want to work with. That's what I'm sort of

Damien Greathead:

picking up out of today's episode,

Rita Breslin:

deliverables that you're willing that you can

Rita Breslin:

commit to.

Damien Greathead:

Cuz you can't just love a tax return over the

Damien Greathead:

fence. You can't just love a p&l over the fence. Can you and

Damien Greathead:

expect to expect the client to be delighted?

Rita Breslin:

Yeah, and not and and don't be surprised if

Rita Breslin:

somebody else comes in and takes them away from you?

Damien Greathead:

Yeah. And I think once we've I think that's

Damien Greathead:

important. What are the deliverables? What are the end

Damien Greathead:

deliverable services, types of clients we want to be working

Damien Greathead:

with, I think it's really important to become crystal

Damien Greathead:

clear on that. Because once we've done that, we can then

Damien Greathead:

move into the actual, well, what do we need to do to get us

Damien Greathead:

there? What are the what are the activities that we need to let

Damien Greathead:

go of? What are the activities that we need to look at our

Damien Greathead:

process and automate? And and that's I think the part about

Damien Greathead:

our next episode is where we once we've got clarity here, on

Damien Greathead:

what we are, what we want to be who we want to look after, and

Damien Greathead:

what we want to deliver to our next episode

Rita Breslin:

is how do you get clarity with your employees?

Rita Breslin:

Yep, yeah. Yeah. Because you might get clear, you might you

Rita Breslin:

you might be rate dialed right in on what you want. But you

Rita Breslin:

better make sure that the people around you want the same thing.

Damien Greathead:

And I think maybe that's where we start our

Damien Greathead:

next episode, because we've seen a whole host of firms absolutely

Damien Greathead:

derailed because the the vision of the the owners and the vision

Damien Greathead:

and the understanding of the teams are completely different,

Damien Greathead:

or even multiple owners who don't have the same.

Rita Breslin:

Yeah, that's what

Damien Greathead:

maybe that's where we are we we we lead off

Damien Greathead:

on our next episode, where we dive deeper into being crystal

Damien Greathead:

clear on what we want to do. What are the types of services

Damien Greathead:

we want to provide? What are the deliverables that we want to

Damien Greathead:

deliver? And then we can focus on how we're actually going to

Damien Greathead:

get there and delivering them. So Penny, this has been a really

Damien Greathead:

good way to kick things off. I think we we often launch

Damien Greathead:

straight into the app or firms launch straight into the app

Damien Greathead:

straight into the workflow straight into reporting and all

Damien Greathead:

these whiz bang reporting apps but they don't spend any time on

Damien Greathead:

the front end really defining who they are, and what they want

Damien Greathead:

to deliver to their clients.

Rita Breslin:

Get your brand going.

Damien Greathead:

Yep,

Rita Breslin:

yeah, gotta get your

Damien Greathead:

jump on the website, si t vc.co. You can see

Damien Greathead:

the Harvard Business article you can see strategy in the fat

Damien Greathead:

smoker and where to download or order those from penny. We will

Damien Greathead:

see you next week when we get into to team on strategy in the

Damien Greathead:

virtual controller.

Rita Breslin:

All right, you got it.

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