Shownotes
We state at the outset that competitive barbecue is often decided by the luck of the judge, and that judge variability can affect results as much as cooking skill. I advise beginners to learn the sanctioning rules thoroughly, follow allowed equipment and garnish rules, and study presentation standards. We recommend joining a team or observing contests to learn timing, box setup, and judge expectations. I emphasize making a strict timeline, bringing reliable gear and enough charcoal and wood, and preparing for weather and lighting. We stress photographing boxes, recording scores, and refining technique from contest to contest while remaining persistent despite setbacks.
Links referenced in this episode:
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Transcripts
Time for Barbecue Nation with jt.
Speaker A:So fire up your grill, light the charcoal, and get your smoker cooking.
Speaker A:Now from the Turn It, Don't Burn it studios in Portland, here's jt.
Speaker A:This is an encore.
Speaker A:Hey, everybody.
Speaker A:Welcome to Barbecue Nation.
Speaker A:I'm JT along with my co host, Leanne Whippen.
Speaker A:Hall of famer, I might say, you know, and great person to travel with and work with.
Speaker A:I will give her that compliment this morning.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:You are, too.
Speaker A:You get us today.
Speaker A:How about that?
Speaker A:Because we're going to do part two of a show we did not long ago that was about competitive barbecue.
Speaker A:And if you want to get into competitive barbecue, I can think of no one better to talk about it than my co host, Leanne.
Speaker A:This portion of our competitive barbecue show here on Barbecue Nation is brought to you by Painted Hills Natural Beef.
Speaker A:Beef the way nature intended.
Speaker A:You can check them out@painted hillsnatural beef.com.
Speaker A:All right, kiddo.
Speaker A:Where we left off was, I think, kind of.
Speaker A:Are you sure you want to do this right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I'm sure you hear it more than I do because I don't get involved with competitive barbecue other than the interviews.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker A:I think that everybody that asked me kind of asked me the same question, not only how do I get involved, but then they'll ask me a question too, like, well, how do you think they would like my brisket or my ribs or chicken or whatever?
Speaker A:And what do you say to them?
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I mean, that's the thing.
Speaker A:Barbecue is such an individual.
Speaker B:Exercise, but it's really not when it comes to kcbs.
Speaker B:I feel as if they have zoned in on what the judge is like, and it's that sweet with little back heat, tomato based sauce.
Speaker B:I don't care if you're in eastern North Carolina, you aren't going to go with a vinegar sauce because you're going to lose.
Speaker B:So, you know, when somebody says that to me, I'll ask them, like, you know, what kind of sauce?
Speaker B:What kind of rub are you using?
Speaker B:And, you know, I'll listen to what they have to say and I'll make my recommendation based on if they're going to do a kcbs, you know what they're looking for.
Speaker B:And honestly, it's not even my preference.
Speaker B:I like vinegar based sauces.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:I don't even like sauce.
Speaker B:I like dry rub, you know, so I'm not going with what I like for competition.
Speaker B:I'm going for what the judges like.
Speaker B:And unfortunately, that's not even barbecue.
Speaker B:I Cook in my backyard.
Speaker B:And I think a lot of the competitors will tell you the same thing.
Speaker A:How would you know, though?
Speaker A:I mean, how would you know?
Speaker A:I mean, regionally, yes, but when you get to certain competitions and all of a sudden they bring in a judge from Texas and a judge from California and a judge from Oregon, where I live, and, you know, from Zimbabwe or someplace like that.
Speaker A:How do you know?
Speaker B:Well, that's why part of competing is luck of the judge, for the most part.
Speaker B:You'll find that the KCBS contests that are sanctioned have certified judges.
Speaker B:They do fill in with celebrity judges.
Speaker B:They do fill in with people that don't show.
Speaker B:And you are at the mercy of how they're going to hit your table.
Speaker B:And what I mean by that is there's going to be six judges at the table.
Speaker B:So you don't have every judge there judging your food.
Speaker B:You've got those six.
Speaker B:So it's kind of a crapshoot who you're going to get.
Speaker B:What if you get all those?
Speaker B:What if you get six newbies?
Speaker B:They aren't going to do that.
Speaker B:KCBS is pretty cognizant of that.
Speaker B:And they'll separate them out and put certified and kind of spread it out.
Speaker B:But you might get that one judge that first.
Speaker B:You know, they might not even be certified.
Speaker B:And so they don't realize the importance of scoring.
Speaker B:And they might think in their mind when you're scoring from one to nine, that a seven is a great score.
Speaker B:In their mind, when a seven, you're going to tank.
Speaker B:You have to get predominantly nines or eights and nines in order to be up for grand champion or particular category to cash in, because sevens aren't going to cut it.
Speaker B:So it is mercy of the judge sometime, and that's out of your control.
Speaker B:And that's also part of the reason why you should not be discouraged if you don't win, because it might not be your fault.
Speaker B:You could have turned in epic food.
Speaker B:But sometimes it's.
Speaker B:It's luck of the judge.
Speaker A:Well, I had that for years when I was doing the horse shows.
Speaker A:It was always the luck of the judge, you know, and sometimes we would actually travel off our normal circuit if we needed to get a horse qualified for the nationals.
Speaker A:And we had a judge that was kind of friendly to us or something like that.
Speaker A:But I don't see how you could do that, that in barbecue, because, like you said, you've got six judges there.
Speaker A:This is a KCBS deal.
Speaker A:You got six.
Speaker A:So maybe there's one that really likes You.
Speaker A:And he gives you nines like that.
Speaker A:And then you've got somebody that's maybe a little more adherent to the profiles that they've been trained in, and they give you sevens.
Speaker B:You know, I'll tell you, if you have a table of judges all turning in straight nines and somebody turns in straight sevens, that's why you have table captains.
Speaker B:The table captains look at the scorecards before they're turned in, and if they see a major discrepancy, something like that, that is happening, say that guys like mark and sevens straight across the board and everyone else is given nines, he'll see it in two categories if that's the case.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:And there will be something that will happen because that's why you have a table captain.
Speaker A:Mean like euthanasia or something or.
Speaker B:No, you just got it.
Speaker B:You got to spot these things.
Speaker B:And because they want to be fair to the cookers as well.
Speaker B:So there is a little bit of things going on to control that a little bit.
Speaker A:Okay, so let's switch over to the National Barbecue Association.
Speaker A:Is that similar?
Speaker B:Well, they don't have a sanctioned contest body.
Speaker B:I mean, you have Memphis in May, and that's a little bit different in their scoring and the categories that you turn in.
Speaker B:And you know that's on site judging.
Speaker B:So that's a whole.
Speaker B:That's a whole nother ball game.
Speaker B:But again, they have table captains as well, and it's to keep everything in check.
Speaker A:We like things in check.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Yeah, we do.
Speaker A:So when.
Speaker A:Veer off a little bit here, the end when you've judged, and I know you've judged a lot.
Speaker A:Have you ever had to do that if you've been a table captain or something?
Speaker A:Have you ever had to say, hey, Leonard, come on, get with the program here?
Speaker B:No, I've never been a table captain, so I have not had that come.
Speaker B:Come across me, you know?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you don't see the other judges, what their scores are.
Speaker B:So it's not like I see it and say something to them.
Speaker B:Because you're really not supposed to talk at the table until all the cards are turned in.
Speaker B:Huh?
Speaker A:Well, that's chitchat.
Speaker A:No chit chat.
Speaker B:Nope.
Speaker A:What about chat chat?
Speaker B:Nope.
Speaker B:None of it.
Speaker A:Okay, so back to our.
Speaker A:Back to our newbies that want to.
Speaker A:Want to go out and compete.
Speaker A:We talked about this in the first show, but.
Speaker A:But really, technically, they can use any cooker that they want.
Speaker A:I mean, they can't deep bring an air fryer in there, I suppose, but.
Speaker B:It's got to be wood and charcoal, you can use pallet cookers.
Speaker B:Electricity can be used as long as it's a starting mechanism or it's using to move your rotisserie.
Speaker B:Like ovens or anything.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's very important that you read the rules because the rules are stringent, as we discussed.
Speaker B:Garnish.
Speaker B:You don't want to be DQ'd over red tip lettuce or something that they don't allow.
Speaker B:So familiarize yourself very well with the regulations.
Speaker B:And we touched on the fact that it's important to go to contests and really get the feel of what's going on and talk to the cookers.
Speaker B:And moreover, if you can get on a team, that's the way to go.
Speaker B:Then you really get in the trenches.
Speaker B:Then you really see what's going on.
Speaker B:So if you're fortunate enough to be able to get in there and ask these guys, sometimes they'll let you, sometimes they won't.
Speaker B:Sometimes they need an extra hand.
Speaker B:Sometimes.
Speaker B:Who knows, maybe you'll be a runner.
Speaker B:You'll run the food in, you know, for the judges.
Speaker B:But that's the optimum is really get on a team.
Speaker B:You can do that.
Speaker A:Yeah, you would learn a lot.
Speaker A:Especially somebody was open and friendly to you.
Speaker A:You teach you that.
Speaker B:And as I said, you know, we, we talked about using good meats.
Speaker B:Make that investment.
Speaker B:You're out there, you're spending time and energy, you got to invest in good meat.
Speaker B:But one of the things that's super important too is timing.
Speaker B:I mean, you've got that 10 minute window, so you really have to put together a timeline.
Speaker B:I mean, I have written notes, it's a spreadsheet.
Speaker B:And it's not like I stare at the spreadsheet during the contest, but it gives me guidelines when I'm going to start each meet.
Speaker B:So you back up from when your turn in time is so chicken, say is from 5 to noon to 5 afternoon.
Speaker B:So, so you want to start doing your box no later than 10 minutes before turn in.
Speaker B:And it depends on the walk too.
Speaker B:Say you have a five minute walk to turn ins.
Speaker B:You got to back that five minutes out.
Speaker B:So timing is critical.
Speaker B:And then you gotta back out how much time your chicken takes.
Speaker B:And then you gotta back in and put in your brine time.
Speaker B:So you put down on your timeline when you're gonna put it in the brine.
Speaker B:And this takes a lot of the pressure off.
Speaker B:And when you're dealing with four different categories, it's extremely helpful.
Speaker B:And sometimes you lose track of time or you get a little sleepy.
Speaker B:And if you have at least some sort of basic timeline, you can quickly look at it and not have to really think a whole lot.
Speaker B:It's a guideline, but it certainly is very critical.
Speaker B:And I used to do timelines on whiteboards, which can be a problem because what if somebody rubs against it and screws up your timeline?
Speaker B:But I don't know why I had to think for whiteboards.
Speaker B:But at the end of the contest, what I would do is I would take a picture of it so I had it.
Speaker B:And I'd also keep track of what my, you know, you get your scores at the end of the contest and really sit down and look at those scores.
Speaker B:And also another thing I do is I always take a photograph right before turn ins, not myself.
Speaker B:I'll have whoever's there with me take a picture.
Speaker B:So you have because you aren't going to remember these things.
Speaker B:You're not going to remember what your box looked like.
Speaker B:And when your scores come in, put your pictures with the score sheets so you have a reference.
Speaker B:Say you got all nines on appearance for a chicken box and you have a picture of it.
Speaker B:Well, shoot, do the same chicken box appearance next time.
Speaker B:Say your scores were great on taste and just if you keep track of everything, you can tweak how things go from contest to contest.
Speaker A:Speaking of important times, we are going to take a break here on Barbecue Nation and Leanne and I will be back and talk more about what competition barbecue and what the do's and don'ts.
Speaker A:And if you think you're interested in participating, some ideas for you.
Speaker A:So we'll be right back here on the Nation.
Speaker A:Please stay with us.
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Speaker A:This is an encore.
Speaker A:Welcome back to Barbecue Nation here on the USA Radio Networks and the Barbecue Nation Radio Network.
Speaker A:I'm JT along with Leanne Whippen, my co host.
Speaker A:If you'd like to contact us.
Speaker A:Very simple.
Speaker A:Just go to Barbecue Nation, JT.com There's a contact us thing right on the bottom of the front page there.
Speaker A:Click on it, ask us your question, and we will get back to you.
Speaker A:We do that pretty well, actually.
Speaker A:We get back to people pretty well.
Speaker A:Yeah, we do.
Speaker A:So when you.
Speaker A:When you make this guideline sheet, do you also keep them where you say, okay, this is what I did in Mobile, Alabama, and this is what I did in.
Speaker A:Up in South Carolina.
Speaker A:So you've got a reference like that, or do you also go as far to say, here's the picture of the box, here's the guideline we used, and here were the judges.
Speaker A:Do you ever keep track of the judges?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:Because you don't know who the judges are.
Speaker A:Supposedly you don't.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:And that's really not going to matter because that's out of your control anyway.
Speaker B:Whoever you get, you get.
Speaker B:And you aren't taking contest to contest and like having a culmination of a whole bunch of papers.
Speaker B:You're doing that before you go into your contest, whether you're practicing on improving your taste or what have you.
Speaker B:Those are just guidelines to help you put together a master sheet.
Speaker B:You don't want to have a whole bunch of papers flying around and be your eyes going here or there and everywhere.
Speaker B:So I have one sheet, and I take a piece of duct tape and I tape it up on my wall so I don't lose track of it and get sauce all over it.
Speaker B:And, yeah, you don't want to go crazy with it, but it's more, you know, just everything all in one sheet.
Speaker A:That's actually an old Lakota Lakota word.
Speaker A:One sheet.
Speaker A:One sheet, sort of.
Speaker A:Can somebody actually compete with just like a Weber kettle and do well?
Speaker B:A kettle is not something I would recommend.
Speaker B:A wsm.
Speaker B:A Weber Smoky Mountain Bullet.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:That's what I started with.
Speaker B:I remember Harry sue, when he was on TLC Pitmasters with us, he had four.
Speaker B:He's one for each category.
Speaker B:It's an inexpensive and pretty lightweight and easy to move kind of thing.
Speaker B:And it still to this day, in my opinion, produces phenomenal barbecue.
Speaker A:I mean, do they need to bring in, you know, we're talking about the brand newbies, not somebody that's already kind of weighted up to their ankles in this pond.
Speaker A:But do they need to go out and buy a jambo or something or.
Speaker B:Absolutely not.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:And I wouldn't recommend doing that because you got to find out if you're actually going to like this, you might find that you go in and say, ah, this is.
Speaker B:I don't like this.
Speaker B:I like staying up all night cooking.
Speaker B:Or, you know, after a few.
Speaker B:After a few times, you just aren't doing well and you get discouraged, which, you know, you should always keep your head up and keep trying.
Speaker B:But no, it happens.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Just don't make that kind of investment.
Speaker B:It's not necessary to win, in my opinion.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, yeah, I have a jambo.
Speaker B:Yeah, I love my jambo.
Speaker B:It makes great barbecue.
Speaker B:But I always bring a WSM, too.
Speaker B:I always have that.
Speaker B:There's.
Speaker A:So really, you're going to be what you can get in your truck or slash trailer to get there to make it work for you.
Speaker A:And if you're confident in your cooking abilities with whatever cooker you're using, then I would say go for it.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you always have to, you know, be cognizant of wood and charcoal, you know, that you're bringing or using.
Speaker B:In my opinion, charcoal that's flavored is a no, no.
Speaker B:Whether it's, you know, mesquite flavored or whatever, I feel like it has a possibility of lending an artificial taste to your charcoal.
Speaker B:So hardwood charcoal, no flavor, in my opinion.
Speaker B:And some cookers require lumps, some, you know, like your green eggs.
Speaker B:And then you've got the wsm, which you can just use briquettes.
Speaker B:So make sure you bring enough charcoal.
Speaker B:You certainly don't want to run out.
Speaker B:In our family of barbecue, people are very helpful.
Speaker B:If you do run out, they'll help you out with that, but you don't want to mess around with that.
Speaker B:So always make sure you bring enough.
Speaker B:Your wood, make sure you're keeping it dry.
Speaker B:I had an instance where I had my wood underneath my jambo because it has an area for storage, but it's also, you know, got holes in it.
Speaker B:And, you know, it had snowed and the snow got in there and I didn't realize it.
Speaker B:My wood was wet, and that's a problem.
Speaker B:So keep your wood dry.
Speaker B:I also believe that you should not cook with wood with bark on it.
Speaker B:I think it makes it a little bitter.
Speaker B:Don't use wood that's too old.
Speaker B:You know, just make sure you bring enough wood.
Speaker B:That's another thing.
Speaker B:You don't want to run out in the middle of a contest.
Speaker B:And also make sure you bring some lighting, too.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:People forget about that.
Speaker B:I mean, you need to see what you're doing.
Speaker A:One thing I could recommend, and I've not competed in one of these, I've judged a few, but you were talking about lighting and stuff.
Speaker A:Sometimes the wind comes up, you have inclement weather like you were speaking of.
Speaker A:I would suggest that.
Speaker A:And, and they've got new ones now because I just bought some for our TV stuff.
Speaker A:They have.
Speaker A:People used to have.
Speaker A:You have to use sandbags, especially on if you've been around a movie set or something, big click lights and all that.
Speaker A:They have these ones that you can fill up with water.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And they weigh 30 to 50, you know, however much, however much weight you want.
Speaker A:They have them to accommodate that size, but that will hold them down in case.
Speaker A:I mean, if you get a tornado going through there.
Speaker A:Nothing.
Speaker B:I'll tell you, I've been in a lot of contests where wind has been an issue.
Speaker B:I always bring, you know, like four or five gallon buckets.
Speaker B:You know, it's lightweight.
Speaker B:You can stack them and fill them up with water and tie them down to your tent.
Speaker B:Yeah, you always, always want to look at the weather and see what's going on with that because, you know, if you're in inclement weather and your tent blows away, you're to have some real issues.
Speaker B:You know, I start off a contest.
Speaker A:Like that, no, that would not be good.
Speaker A:That would not be good.
Speaker A:Have you ever been to one where you had inclement weather like that and people, a particular team or something just said, okay, we're done.
Speaker A:We can't fix this.
Speaker B:I have been in multiple contests where people's tents have flown away in the middle of a contest, including myself.
Speaker B:I had it happen once, and you're kind of paying attention to your own site, so I've never really paid attention to see if anyone's, like, thrown in the towel.
Speaker B:I've never heard of that, but I'm sure it's happened.
Speaker B:It just makes it very unpleasant.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, you're out there and it's two o' clock in the morning and you're starting your fires or whatever, and the wind's blowing and we're making this sound very attractive, aren't we, folks?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah, we are.
Speaker A:We're going to take another break.
Speaker A:Going to be back with more of Barbecue Nation with Leanne and J.T.
Speaker A:Right after this.
Speaker A:Hey, everybody, it's JT And I have eaten.
Speaker A:If you've ever looked at me, you know that.
Speaker A:But I have eaten seafood all over the world, and I can tell you there's no place better than here in Oregon and our Dungeness crab.
Speaker A:If you want to learn more about Oregon Dungeness Crab.
Speaker A:Just go to oregondungeness.org and find out how to cook it, how to catch it, where to buy it, and the sustainability of what they're doing there in the Oregon Crab Commission.
Speaker A:Check it out.
Speaker A:This is an encore.
Speaker A:Welcome back to Barbecue Nation here on the USA Radio Network.
Speaker A:I'm jt, along with is Leanne Whipping hall of Famer.
Speaker A:Yeah, I like that.
Speaker B:Ready to go to the royal.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Get your trophy.
Speaker B:That stretches.
Speaker A:They don't make you do, like, hands and feet in cement, like a grommens.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:I don't have all the details.
Speaker B:All I know is that I. I just know I have to be there.
Speaker A:Well, I'll take some handy wipes with you in case you do have to put your fingerprints and something.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:We'd like to thank the folks at Painted Hills Natural Beef.
Speaker A:Beef the way nature intended and beef just like your grandpa used to raise.
Speaker A:That's Painted Hills Natural Beef.
Speaker A:And also Gunter Wilhelm knives.
Speaker A:Superb quality, excellent efficiency in the kitchen for a reasonable price.
Speaker A:That's GunterWilhelm.com and again, you can contact us by going to Barbecue Nation, JT.com and more.
Speaker A:If you want to listen to the podcast versions, which, by the way, we're doing very well with.
Speaker A:I don't like to gloat too much, but we are doing well with those.
Speaker A:We're on all the platforms from Apple to all the Android platforms like Captivate and all that.
Speaker A:So we're out there.
Speaker A:We're out there.
Speaker A:When you talk about garnish, you ever.
Speaker A:Did you ever have to pull the garnish because something happened and either redo it or just go without?
Speaker B:No, I've never gone without.
Speaker B:Of course, you always tweak it.
Speaker B:After you put your meat in the box, your garnish is going to shift and you might have to fill in.
Speaker B:So always make sure you have filling garnish by your box when you're getting ready to box up.
Speaker B:So if there's a hole in the garnish and you need to fill it in, you got little pieces always have, you know, like a paper towel to wipe off sauce if it drips on the side of the box, that kind of thing.
Speaker B:Always be prepared for those little tiny things that happen.
Speaker B:But, you know, they do make a difference.
Speaker A:How long do the boxes normally sit once you've turned them in, before they make it to the judging table?
Speaker A:Because they wait for everybody to get the chicken.
Speaker A:For example, everybody turns in their chicken.
Speaker A:They don't get, you know, they are.
Speaker B:Not waiting for everybody to turn in their chicken.
Speaker B:They're waiting for the first six boxes that they take to the first table immediately.
Speaker B:So it's a pretty even flow.
Speaker B:It should not sit there long at all.
Speaker B:But you do want to make sure that your food is at least warm.
Speaker B:Johnny Trigg Swife made these special carriers that are insulated, and I have it to this day.
Speaker B:And you can carry your box in that if it's cold, and it'll keep the wind off of it.
Speaker B:So that's helpful, too.
Speaker B:Keeps away all the elements, you know, keeps it warm.
Speaker A:Do you keep away all the incorrigible elements, like your radio partner here?
Speaker A:You say you can't do that.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:I want to get back to the grills and smokers, because that seems to be in people talking to me, Leanne, that seems to be the biggest thing that.
Speaker A:And you touched on it earlier, the quality of meat.
Speaker A:I. I do know something about the quality of meat, and, you know, if you go to the cheap store, I'll just put it that way without naming names.
Speaker A:And there's lots of them around.
Speaker A:And of course, now the big thing is wagyu and all that, but you're.
Speaker B:All right with a prime piece of beef brisket.
Speaker B:But going any lower choice, it reduces your odds.
Speaker B:You'll see online.
Speaker B:And it's changed over the years.
Speaker B:If someone took pictures of their food back in the day, nobody showed those pictures.
Speaker B:Now everyone's proud of their pictures and they're proud of how they've done in each category.
Speaker B:So it's a good idea to follow these people that are doing well.
Speaker B:And if they say they got a first in chicken, they're usually even showing pictures of their boxes.
Speaker B:Go ahead and mimic the box.
Speaker B:I mean, shoot, if they got a first in chicken and the box is beautiful, copy it.
Speaker B:You know, nothing wrong with that.
Speaker B:So I highly recommend doing your homework on that, because there's so many ways that you can present, you know, a pork box these days, especially with the money, muscle and, you know, the tubes and everything.
Speaker B:Chicken's pretty straightforward, and so is brisket and ribs, for that matter.
Speaker B:But pork is a very interesting.
Speaker B:Actually, chicken's kind of changing.
Speaker B:I've seen some unusual chicken boxes out there, too.
Speaker B:But do your homework on presentation, because the proof is they'll say it on the site how they did in the contest, and you'll see the garnish they're using.
Speaker A:Well, that's good.
Speaker A:What do you use for garnish?
Speaker B:I'm a parsley person, and I like green leafy lettuce.
Speaker B:I tend to favor parsley a lot, but I do like green leafy lettuce.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:Also, it's a matter of when I go into the produce department.
Speaker B:What looks good too?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:You don't use kale.
Speaker A:I'm trying to find a legitimate use.
Speaker B:Of kale for sure.
Speaker B:Kale.
Speaker B:Kale's used a lot out there.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's nice and stiff and it fills up the box easily.
Speaker B:Kale's very prevalent out there.
Speaker A:So do you just put it around the outside or do you actually put the meat on a bed of.
Speaker B:I do a light bed on the bottom and then I make sure that it's up on the sides and I don't over garnish.
Speaker B:The meat is the focal point, but you still want it to look nice.
Speaker A:Yammer, take a toothpick and stab, you know, six $20 bills and put it in the.
Speaker B:No, that's called marking.
Speaker B:You can't mark your box.
Speaker B:I do use toothpicks to test ribs because you can't bite into every rib, you know, and figure out what you're going to turn in.
Speaker B:Toothpick is a nice little thing to poke into your meat, and if it feels tender and comes out quite easily, that.
Speaker B:That's a nice little trick you can use for ribs.
Speaker A:Well, let's talk about that for a second.
Speaker A:Not testing particularly ribs, but what type of kit, if you will.
Speaker A:People are big on kits, you know, have in case of emergency.
Speaker A:You have your home emergency kit or whatever.
Speaker A:What should they consider as the basics to put in that?
Speaker A:Everybody's got their preference on which knife they like to use?
Speaker A:You know, what, right.
Speaker B:So your knives are important.
Speaker B:Your gloves that you're going to use, you don't want to have suede gloves.
Speaker B:I use neoprene gloves.
Speaker B:They're heat resistant and they aren't too bulky, so.
Speaker B:And it doesn't mess up the meat as much as, you know, another type of glove.
Speaker B:Some people double up on or even triple up on food service gloves if they can handle the heat.
Speaker B:That's a nice thing I always bring.
Speaker B:I have some Gunter wheel scissors that I like to just clean up edges.
Speaker B:I never use tongs because that messes things up.
Speaker A:So do you pull the protein right off the rack in your cooker with your hands?
Speaker A:You don't use tongs, so I usually.
Speaker B:It depends on the meat, but sometimes, like with chicken, I put it on a grate.
Speaker B:That's almost like a.
Speaker B:Like what you cool off cookies on, right?
Speaker B:And so you aren't taking the grate off the whole smoker, you're just taking that off and then you can bring it to where you're going to do your boxes.
Speaker B:And that's a helpful thing.
Speaker B:I like to always have a Cambro on board, which is an insulated food carrier or a cooler, so that if your meat gets done early, you have somewhere to keep it warm.
Speaker B:I like bringing a moving blanket for my brisket.
Speaker B:I usually snuggle that up while it's resting, you know, in a cooler, some sort of blanket or a towel.
Speaker A:Or you can take a nap on there too, right?
Speaker B:Yeah, it's very versatile.
Speaker B:And I always bring a spray bottle for apple juice or whatever you're going to use, because sometimes when you spritz right before it goes in, it adds some shine to your food.
Speaker B:I always bring a mini food grinder and that is to pulverize my dry rubs.
Speaker B:If I taste a piece of chicken and it just isn't giving me that pow, I will dust it lightly before turning with the dry rub and a smidgen of fine kosher salt.
Speaker B:I always turn in pork with a little bit of kosher salt at the end, but fine ground because you don't want them crunching on coarse spices.
Speaker B:So I always bring that little spice grinder.
Speaker B:I always bring a degreaser, and that is to degrease my beef brisket juices because I like to take the grease out.
Speaker B:And then what other great juices I have, I will add some beef stock or bouillon to it if I need that to dunk my brisket in, whether to, you know, give it some.
Speaker B:Some shine flavor if it's dry.
Speaker B:It's just good for emergency purposes.
Speaker B:I always bring injectors because you got to have that for your injections.
Speaker B:I have.
Speaker B:Oh, gosh, that's just off the top of my head.
Speaker A:I would assume towels and paper towels and handy wipes or whatever.
Speaker B:Lots of paper towels.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, those throwaway white rags are always good.
Speaker B:Lots of foil.
Speaker B:And make sure you get heavy duty foil.
Speaker B:Don't cheap out on your foil because then you're going to get holes in it and then you're going to lose your juices and then things are going to steam out.
Speaker B:So you always invest in heavy duty foil and you want the big rolls, not the small rolls.
Speaker B:Cutting boards, of course.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's just as I said, off the top of my head.
Speaker A:Scraper for a cutting board.
Speaker A:You know, I have to use cutting board because I use them all the time.
Speaker B:Yeah, scrapers are great.
Speaker B:That'll clean, you know, because when you're going from one meat to the other, even though they're a half hour apart, you're actually, you've got to clean your board for the next one.
Speaker B:So you got to clean and, you know, get your meat out.
Speaker B:Then you got to cut your meat and figure out how you're going to do it in the box.
Speaker B:And so really, you're rolling from one turn into the next.
Speaker B:Maybe there's a 10 minute break depending on how your cook's going, but you're going boom, boom, boom, one right after the other isn't like, oh, let's take a break, you know, sit down for a half hour.
Speaker B:No, it's not like that.
Speaker B:It goes one right after the other.
Speaker A:Is that old song boom, boom, boom.
Speaker A:Out go the lights.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:You kind of grimaced when I said that.
Speaker A:I think you must have had flashbacks of a bad cook with a tornado or something like that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And we'll be back on Barbecue Nation in just a moment.
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Speaker A:Here.
Speaker A:I want to tell you about the Hammerstahl knives.
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Speaker A:This is an encore.
Speaker A:Welcome back to Barbecue Nation.
Speaker A:I'm JT along with Leanne Whippett.
Speaker A:Today, and we're talking about what you should do and some of the do's and don'ts.
Speaker A:If you want to get into competitive barbecue.
Speaker A:We have.
Speaker A:We don't focus on competitive barbecue on this show, but we, we do talk to a lot of people on the show that are involved in that at the highest levels and some at the beginning levels.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:We've got a master hall of famer here that can help you with lots of questions that are buzzing around in your minds out there.
Speaker A:My mind's always buzzing, so it doesn't really matter.
Speaker B:Also your sauce.
Speaker B:You know, I'm just.
Speaker B:Things are running through my head as we're talking.
Speaker B:Make sure you warm your sauce Up.
Speaker B:Don't sit there and boil it, because the flavor profile will change, in my opinion.
Speaker B:And sometimes, you know, say your chicken thighs.
Speaker B:When I do thighs, I always have this little stainless steel bowl that's kind of deep, and it holds one thigh at a time.
Speaker B:So I'm not using a ton of sauce.
Speaker B:So I'll fill that, you know, up.
Speaker B:I'm talking maybe like an 8 inch diameter stainless steel bowl, because it can handle the heat.
Speaker B:And I'll just stick it in my smoker.
Speaker B:It'll get a little smoke in there, too.
Speaker B:And then I'll.
Speaker B:I'll take a pigtail, which is.
Speaker B:It's a long tool that has this little metal squirrely thing on the end, which it just, like, twists.
Speaker B:And you can pick up the chicken thigh and dunk it in your sauce.
Speaker B:And as I said it should be, you can thin it out with apple juice if you want, but you don't want it to be gloppy.
Speaker B:You want it to be smooth and very thin so that it sets a glaze on it.
Speaker B:So you dunk them in, and then you put them back on that cookie rack that I was talking about.
Speaker B:And then once you do all of them, you put them back in a smoker, and then, you know, only for, like five or 10 minutes to let that set set the sauce.
Speaker B:So that's helpful because chicken thighs, you can bang them up very easily, even if you're using your hands.
Speaker B:And they got to be picture perfect.
Speaker B:You know, when you dunk them in, you're getting sauce all over it.
Speaker B:So when people bite into it, the judges, they're going to get sauce in the entire bite.
Speaker B:You know, that's you.
Speaker A:You were talking about brisket a little bit ago.
Speaker A:Do you use an electric knife?
Speaker B:I do.
Speaker B:And I'll tell you, I can get more control out of an electric knife for the thickness.
Speaker B:And it just goes real fast and easy for me.
Speaker B:So it keeps my brisket as warm as possible.
Speaker B:I feel like even though I'm pretty good with a knife, the electric knife, and I use a Cuisinart electric knife, by the way.
Speaker B:I feel like that does the trick.
Speaker B:For me, it's just a preference.
Speaker A:So you've got your brisket laying out in front of you, and it's cooked, and you're going to start prepping the box.
Speaker A:How many slices do you.
Speaker A:I know what you turn in, but how many slices do you actually cut?
Speaker A:And then say, okay, I'm going to take this one and that one and this one and that one.
Speaker B:I'm Pretty much wanting to turn in with maybe an extra one just to, of course, you know, test it.
Speaker B:So I would say I'm probably slicing 10 slices and depending on.
Speaker B:And it's also when I start setting up the box and I'm laying them in there side by side, I stand them straight up and then I push them down sideways so that they all fall down like dominoes evenly.
Speaker B:And you want to see, you know, the top of the smoke ring and the bark on the top.
Speaker B:So you gotta have at least six slices.
Speaker B:And I like to at least put in eight so that I have room for the burnt ends in front.
Speaker A:Do you ever sample.
Speaker B:I sample everything before it goes in.
Speaker B:Most of the time, you know, if I'm there, my daughter or daughters, they're very good at telling me, you know, if I have two briskets, they're gonna tell me which one they like better.
Speaker B:I just get so caught up in the cook and I'm kind of grossed out.
Speaker B:I just.
Speaker B:I really don't want to eat.
Speaker B:I understand myself.
Speaker B:I really.
Speaker A:I do understand that, you know, on my end, what I do, which is very much more media oriented, you get done doing two or three shows in one day and somebody will look at you and say, you want to go to lunch or what?
Speaker A:I don't want anything to do with.
Speaker B:Food, you know, so it's good to have one or two people.
Speaker B:Don't have an army sitting there tasting your food.
Speaker B:First off, you're going to have.
Speaker B:You just don't want to have that many people around when you're doing your boxes.
Speaker B:One or two designated taste testers, probably two.
Speaker B:So that you get, you know, a pretty good opinion is the way to go, at least for me.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because I know that when they're.
Speaker A:Well, that happens here too.
Speaker A:And I've talked about it on the show before.
Speaker A:You cook a big Thanksgiving dinner or whatever.
Speaker A:I go outside and sit on the patio while Everybody else is.
Speaker B:I 100 agree.
Speaker B:The next day is my day.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:That's, you know, college football, hot turkey sandwich or something.
Speaker A:You know, whatever little mashed potatoes and gravy left over, that's when I'll eat it.
Speaker A:Because I'm.
Speaker A:I'm just.
Speaker A:Well, I think everybody's probably that way.
Speaker A:You just.
Speaker A:That's, you know, our moms were very.
Speaker A:I never could figure out why my mom stayed so slim when she cooked the food that she cooked.
Speaker A:But then I.
Speaker A:Thinking back on it, she rarely ate a lot of it, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's the thing.
Speaker B:You get tired of, you know, she's probably tasting it, you know, like, I always taste my food to see what it needs and you just get kind of tired it.
Speaker B:But, and you just, you aren't even hungry by the time, you know, rolls around.
Speaker B:Not all the time, but sometimes.
Speaker A:No, it's, it's, it happens though, because you just, I think you get, you know, if you're tasting on a conventional in house meal and you're tasting, you know, gravy or you're tasting the bit of the turkey or whatever you're doing and you're making sure the, the vegetables are seasoned properly and all that, pretty soon you're just like, I want a bowl of frosted flakes.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker A:If you could give advice to our listeners, and we have been this whole show and the previous show that we did on this, but if you could give advice to them, what are the, let's say, two most important things they should keep in mind?
Speaker A:If they're thinking about going into a competition or they've even registered to go to a competition and, but maybe it's their first one or first or second one, you know, what is Leanne Whippen?
Speaker A:Tell them.
Speaker A:Keep this in the forefront of your thoughts.
Speaker B:You know, Lee, you're there the day before usually, you know, Friday for your meat inspection, what have you.
Speaker B:If you need help, lean on your neighbors.
Speaker B:You'd be surprised how much the barbecue community is willing to help you and how much you will learn from them.
Speaker B:And that's one bit of advice.
Speaker B:And the other is go in with an open mind.
Speaker B:Don't think if you walk away being a loser that it's over and you're never going to do this again.
Speaker B:As I said, it could be luck of the judge.
Speaker B:It could be that you just, you know, even the best competitors have bad cooks.
Speaker B:Just keep your head up and keep going.
Speaker B:If you feel it's in your spirit, your nature, competition, and you're loving it.
Speaker B:Even though you lost, you had a great time, just keep doing it.
Speaker B:I don't care if you lose 10 times in a row.
Speaker B:Everybody goes through that and you're going to have ups and downs and there's nothing more rewarding to get a call after everything you've put into it.
Speaker B:And yeah, just hang in there.
Speaker A:Well, and I think that's that way in a lot of competitions, especially when you're first starting.
Speaker A:You know, if you start somewhere, you got to start somewhere.
Speaker A:And if you think you're going to walk in and knock the world over, maybe you can.
Speaker A:It's possible to do it, but probability wise, not so much.
Speaker A:You know, it's.
Speaker A:It's just one of those things.
Speaker A:We are out of time.
Speaker A:And, Leanne, I want to thank you for sharing with our listeners a lot of your insights.
Speaker A:Sharing is caring.
Speaker A:Yep, Absolutely.
Speaker A:We'll be back next week with another edition of Barbecue Nation.
Speaker A:So for Leanne and myself, we thank you for listening, and have a great week, everybody.
Speaker A:Barbecue Nation is produced by jtsv, LLC Productions in association with Envision Networks and Salem Media Group.
Speaker A:All rights reserved.
Speaker B:Sam.
