Why do New Year goals fail — even when motivation is high? In this Goalchella finale, we dive into the neuroscience of habit formation with expert Erin to unpack what actually happens in the brain when we try to build new habits or break old ones.

We explore why motivation fades, how discipline is built, and whether forming a new habit is harder than breaking an existing one. This episode breaks down intrinsic vs. extrinsic motivation, the role of rewards, and how your environment — including social settings like alcohol-centered events — can either support or sabotage your goals.

If you’ve ever set vague goals like “be less stressed” or “be more mindful” and felt stuck, we explain why unclear goals are harder for the brain to execute — and how to make habits more achievable, sustainable, and measurable in 2026.

We also talk about Erin’s upcoming book, how she used the science of habit formation to support her own discipline during the writing process, and her certification for professionals who want to create meaningful behavior change.

This episode perfectly wraps up the Goalchella podcast festival and gives you the tools to turn inspiration into lasting change — whether you’re working on your own habits or helping others do the same.

Links/Research Articles:

​​https://www.erinlaverone.com/

https://www.habitcoachpro.com/

Book: Do The Thing: A Science Backed Process To Help You Take Action Even When Motivation Fails and Life Gets Messy (Coming so soon!!!!)

Book Launch Ambassador: (I signed up for Tier 1!) https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfqtzVsstm6l6BKUOpvGrBDtlAVFuIbBFlqHHETR5FzOj7L6A/viewform?pli=1

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If you've ever felt like you know what to do for your health but

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can't seem to make it stick, then today's

conversation is exactly what you need.

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Our guest began her career as an exercise

physiologist and personal trainer,

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and has spent 17 plus years in the

health and fitness industry working

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both as a university level educator

and mentor, and as a coach helping

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clients with nutrition and fitness.

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Over time, she noticed something critical.

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People don't just need better

workouts or nutrition plans.

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They need better systems, behaviors, and

mindsets to support long-term change.

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For the past nearly seven years, she's

focused her work on the science of habit

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formation and behavior change, helping

individuals and other professionals

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build the systems that actually

make healthy habits sustainable.

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She's the co-founder of the Habit

Coach Professionals and the author of

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Do The Thing, a Science-Backed Process

to help you take action even when

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motivation fails and life gets messy.

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In today's episode, we're diving into how

habits are really built, why willpower

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isn't the answer, and how to create

systems that support your goals long-term.

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Aaron, welcome to Wellness Fixes the pod.

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Kelsy: So it's early 2026, and I feel

like a lot of people are starting to

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hit that point where they're realizing

their goals that they have set for 2026

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and the habits that they wanted to form.

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Are going to take a little bit

more effort than what they thought.

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It's a little harder to

be consistent with them.

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We've all stopped riding that sort of

New Year's new wave hype motivation.

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The whole world's creating goals.

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It's very motivating, and now we're

starting to settle in and realize it

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might take a little bit more effort.

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Mm-hmm.

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So let's start with the science

behind actually forming goals.

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What sort of systems are there to

actually form certain habits and goals

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and make them a part of our routine?

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Well into December, 2026, not just.

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Here in the beginning of 2026.

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Erin: Sure.

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Yeah.

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So I think there's a little bit

of a difference between like

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goals and maybe our habits.

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, But perhaps there shouldn't be.

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As I'll explain.

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So oftentimes people, there

are three levels of goals.

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, If you've ever read Atomic Habits

by James Claire, he's talked about

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this, but there are outcome goals,

there are process goals, and then

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there are identity based goals.

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, So most people, especially with their

New Year's resolution, set outcome goals.

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I wanna lose 25 pounds by X date.

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I wanna meditate more.

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I wanna.

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Feel better.

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They're kind of like these long

things that are out, , not very much

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definition around them, and therefore

we don't have much control over them.

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Now, process goals are, , the next step.

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That's really good.

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Those are the actions that

are gonna actually get us to

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those outcomes that we want.

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So maybe I'm actually in

the gym for 20 minutes.

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Doing strength training three times

a week, or I'm reading 10 minutes

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every morning if I wanna be a better

reader or writing whatever those

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goals might be, meditating, whatnot.

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And then there's the identity goals.

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It's like, who do I want to be?

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What is an innately feels

like me and the values I have?

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And how I wanna live out my life.

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So digging deeper from that just outcome

based goal that most of us set into those

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process and then even identity goals

are gonna help us stick longer, , when

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it comes into habits and the behaviors

for those behavior based goals.

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I.

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Behavior's very complex.

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Most people don't realize it, but

it's not just like, I wanna do this

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thing, so I'm gonna do this thing.

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There are a variety of things that

go into how we make decisions, and

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then what makes behaviors happen,

and then how does a behavior actually

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get repeated and turned into a habit.

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, So if we are looking to build better

habits, we need to look into things

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like what is activating our habits?

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So both internally, so things

like thoughts, feelings, emotions,

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sensations, and externally, all of the

dings and pings in our environment.

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Smells.

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You know, if you always drive by

a drive through and you always

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smell the burger and fries, are

you activated to go get fast food?

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Um, the people you see in your

environment, friends, family, coworkers

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. At home, at work wherever you

might be in your third space.

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And then just what's

around your home space.

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You know, do you have healthy food sitting

out or is it junk food sitting out?

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Do you have things that are gonna

encourage you to be active or sit around?

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Do you have things that

are gonna encourage you to

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read, to meditate, to write?

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To be a good partner or a friend.

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Um, so those things in our

environment are super important

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to triggering the behaviors we do.

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We think we have free will, but

oftentimes it's these things in our

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environment within us and around us

that are triggering us to do things.

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So we need to take note of those things.

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, We also need to have the ability to

do the behavior which people think.

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You know, of course I can write

every day, or of course I can eat

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healthy, like I have the ability.

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But there are so many things that go

into ability, , the knowledge to do

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it, the skills to do it, the resources

to be able to do it, but also our own

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perceived ability and self-efficacy.

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, So do we have the confidence that we can

do this not just on like day one, when

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we're like super motivated in gung-ho, but

on our worst possible day when like, shit

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has hit the fan and you know everything's

going wrong and I still need to be able

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to take action and build this identity

that I want to have through my actions.

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I think the most overlooked one is we

need to have a rewarding experience.

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People often forget about this, but we

are wired for immediate gratification

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that is millennia of evolution.

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Nudging us in the direction of

going towards whatever is gratifying

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immediately, and rewarding

immediately, and enjoyable immediately.

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And if we fight that, we're literally just

beating our head against the brick wall.

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So instead of fighting it,

why don't we work with it?

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So a lot of times the things that

are valuable to us and the changes

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we want to make, they're hard to do.

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They're unpleasant to do.

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And so how do we make those

more enjoyable and easier to do?

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Then we just have to

have our environments.

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set up so that we can consistently

repeat the things we want to do.

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Or set up so we don't consistently

repeat the things we don't want to do.

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And that's just, you know, a

summary and it gets very, very

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complex when you actually start

to assess those things and dig in.

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But that's what I would take note

as far as like building a habit.

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And then the goals we set should be

more focused towards those behavior

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based goals and identity based goals

as opposed to our outcome-based goals.

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Kelsy: I think a lot of us

struggle the most, like you said,

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with those outcome-based goals.

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We set them.

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For, I want this result, but we

don't think backwards of the process.

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Or the identity change

that needs to happen.

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Erin: Mm-hmm.

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I've

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Kelsy: mentioned this before, but

the book Atomic Habits was one

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that I rebelled against for a while

because so many people talk about it.

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So many people read it.

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It just seemed so trendy.

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And I was like.

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How good can it really be?

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Mm-hmm.

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And I read it for the

first time last January.

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I was like, fine, my goal is to read

all of the boring self-help business

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books that everyone recommends.

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And I finally read it

and I was like, oh, okay.

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I get this.

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This needs to be, a yearly read for

me to come back to, because as soon

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as he mentioned shifting from outcome

goals and reaching this outcome to

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like making it a part of my identity,

not, I'm trying to quit smoking.

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I am not a smoker.

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Mm-hmm.

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Changing that.

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I started to try and apply that to

my own life and it was a big sort of

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switch for me personally, but also.

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Clinically where people are trying

to function in a certain way.

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, I'm trying to make my knee pain better,

or no, I am a person who puts in the

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work to make my knee pain better.

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Or whatever it is.

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So I rebelled against that book,

regrettably, for a long time,

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and it really did help to shift

that mindset when it came to.

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Goal setting and actually realizing

why is it harder for us to stick

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to some goals compared to others.

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So you also mentioned environment too.

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Mm-hmm.

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And I think me personally, one of

my goals for the new year is to

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be more purposeful daily with my

prayer time and my spiritual time.

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Mm-hmm.

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And I realized that in the

beginning of the year, I.

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Was super consistent about creating

that environment around me that allowed

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me to be successful in that goal.

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Mm-hmm.

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And now it's sort of fallen off a

little bit where I'm not going to

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bed as early to be able to set that

environment, I forget oftentimes.

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Mm-hmm.

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I also feel like what goes into

environment is the accountability and

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the people that you have around you.

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Mm-hmm.

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That either Foster and I love

the way that you said activate.

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That environment activates mm-hmm.

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You to form that routine or that habit

versus maybe pulls you away from that.

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So speak a little bit more on that

environment component and also

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how the people you have around

you influence your ability to make

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that habit part of your routine.

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Erin: Yeah.

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So our environment is always

activating us to do certain things.

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So if we can become aware.

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Of what is in our environment.

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We can then either harness the productive

activators or we can figure out how to

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get rid of kind of negative activators

that are either like distracting us or

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pulling us away from what we wanna do.

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Or we can set up intentional activators,

which you said you were forgetting.

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So we might need to set up intentional

activators to do the thing we want to do.

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Um, so perhaps like, I like to meal

prep every weekend, and so I've

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already gone grocery shopping usually.

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Earlier in the weekend and that stuff is

just sitting out ready for me to prep.

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So it's kind of calling my

name when I open the fridge.

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Okay.

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You know, the stuff's sitting around raw.

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You need to prep me now so

you can actually eat it.

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Otherwise, I'm just gonna

sit here all week unedible.

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Right?

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Um, but perhaps if I had a bunch of

desserts or something sitting around

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that could be calling my name too and

pulling me away from that healthy meal

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prep and eating things in aren't good.

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On the contrary, if I didn't

have any of those in there.

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I need to set up activators to get me to

do that healthy meal prep If you want to.

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Work on your spiritual practice

in prayer every morning, and

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you said you're forgetting.

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I'm curious, like what were you

doing to get you to remind you

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to do that in the first place?

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Were you just like, literally

like willing yourself to remember?

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'Cause perhaps we could set up things

like alarms or little sticky notes

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wherever you do your prayer thing or

if you have things that you utilize.

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In prayer.

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I don't know what kind of religion

you're, but like my grandma

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used to always use a rosary.

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Perhaps you're, you know, if that's

the thing, you put rosary beads down

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somewhere, in your visual field so

that you can have that as a reminder.

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Or you did mention social environment.

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If your partner is spiritual as

well, perhaps, you know, either

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they join you or you have a

conversation with them to encourage

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you that during this time, you know.

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This is what I want to be doing.

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But yes, anything in our

environment can be a trigger.

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So it's really important for us to bring

awareness to those triggers that are

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present, that are both productive and

negative, and ones that we might need to

221

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intentionally bring in to encourage us and

nudge us to do those things we want to do.

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Kelsy: how do you help people

and coach people to start

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reflecting on those things?

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Because some of the time it's like

you don't, you probably walk around

225

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in your environment every day, not

even realizing what's an activator,

226

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pulling you towards something or

pulling you towards another option.

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So how do you recommend people start

to like, reflect, or even journal?

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Is it a journaling exercise?

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Is it something like

that where people can.

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Start to think, okay, if this is something

I want to make as part of my routine

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or something that I wanna break as part

of my routine, how do you recommend

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people going about their environment

and analyzing it almost from this like

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outsider's perspective on what's drawing

me towards this routine that I wanna build

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and what's drawing me away from that?

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Mm-hmm.

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Erin: I think there's two

ways you can go about it.

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One is to.

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Intentionally audit, particularly

your home space, but potentially

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workspace or third space as well.

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And just noticing, you know, what you

have set up and how your space is set up.

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But I think probably the easiest

way is to try to be aware of.

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Especially if it's a bad habit

when you're doing the thing, like

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try to catch yourself in the act.

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Um, and obviously, you know, for

those that are listening to this,

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they might be more cognizant now.

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And then I'm a coach, so I literally

have these conversations with my clients,

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but trying to catch yourself in the act.

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So if I'm suddenly scrolling social

media and doing work, see if you can

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catch yourself doing that and then

notice especially for bad habits,

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there's often a lot of internal triggers.

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So like if we're scrolling

social media, what's going on?

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Am I bored?

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Am I stressed?

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Am I tired?

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Do I feel like I'm doing

meaningless menial work?

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What is causing me to stray from, you know

what, I should be doing productive work,

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and instead I'm scrolling social media.

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and then why was it so easy to default

to that, that I literally, you know,

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I've got my phone right here, so

did I have my phone in the pocket?

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Am I logged into those apps?

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You know, is it really easy to

mindlessly get lost in them?

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this is something that

I've personally done.

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Like I don't have any

social media on my phone.

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and I mostly only use it for work

related purposes most of the time.

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And so if I need to go on it, I literally

have to download the app because the,

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I won't use it on my computer 'cause

their interface is on the computer.

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So annoying.

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Um, so I have to download the app.

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I have to re-log into the app, so I

have to make two conscious choices.

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To that, this is what I want to do.

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Um, and I try to limit my time.

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So I also time block, like I'm

gonna spend 30 minutes to do a

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social media post on X today.

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And sometimes I'll intentionally

go on for fun as well.

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But same thing, like I have

to download and log in the

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app, so I have to choose like.

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This is how I want to be

entertained right now.

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I'm not just mindlessly getting lost

in hours of scrolling, or I'm sure you

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know, many ladies are familiar with this,

where you like, go pee on the toilet

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and then all of a sudden 15 minutes have

gone by because, you know, Instagram

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or whatever's right there and you're

like, what the hell just happened?

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Like, I just totally got hijacked.

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Um, so catching yourself in the moment.

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And it's hard to do at first.

285

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Like it's easier said than done.

286

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there's a strategy called urge surfing,

which is like, okay I'm stressed,

287

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I'm tired, I want to scroll social

media, I wanna go mindlessly eat

288

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because it's enjoyable and rewarding

triggers that dopamine cascade.

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And so, you know, maybe the first

time you notice this, you just

290

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notice it and you're like, screw it.

291

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I'm just gonna do it.

292

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And then hopefully the next time

you do it, you notice it and

293

00:14:34,822 --> 00:14:35,662

you're like, oh, I'm just gonna.

294

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Sit here and like, think a little bit

more about like, what am I feeling?

295

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Why am I doing this?

296

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Do I wanna do this?

297

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If I want to do it, that's fine.

298

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Like, if I intentionally

want to give in, cool.

299

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There's nothing wrong with that.

300

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Um, it's more about like the

unintentional, mindless that's distracting

301

00:14:50,332 --> 00:14:53,932

us from what we really wanna do that

we're, we're trying to kind of get ahold

302

00:14:53,932 --> 00:14:55,492

of and bring our conscious self too.

303

00:14:55,832 --> 00:14:57,992

And then over time, hopefully just

become more and more aware of,

304

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okay, this is why I'm doing this and

this is the problem that, you know.

305

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The unproductive behavior is solving,

whether that's scrolling social media or

306

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mindless eating or whatever it might be.

307

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With a bad habit, there's always

like two extra steps that come

308

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into play compared to a good habit.

309

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And that's that.

310

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Like, if we need to remove a bad habit,

and I really don't like to call 'em bad

311

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habits because they're solving a problem.

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Um, but I need to understand

what problem it's solving first.

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And I can't just take it away

because then there's a void.

314

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And you know, we don't

like voids by nature.

315

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Physics doesn't like voids,

so we have to fill that void

316

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with a more productive habit.

317

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Oftentimes those productive habits aren't

as enjoyable, as easy, as obvious to do.

318

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So we need to use strategies to try to

fill that with a productive habit and

319

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make it easy, just as easy, just as

obvious, just as enjoyable to do it.

320

00:15:47,897 --> 00:15:52,037

Kelsy: I like that you said creating

two barriers, for social media.

321

00:15:52,037 --> 00:15:52,127

Mm-hmm.

322

00:15:52,367 --> 00:15:53,687

Like you said, like you

have to think about it.

323

00:15:53,687 --> 00:15:54,617

Okay, this is what I wanna do.

324

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Download the app and that.

325

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I guess double step.

326

00:15:58,007 --> 00:15:58,097

Mm-hmm.

327

00:15:58,337 --> 00:16:00,197

Automatically requires

reflection a little bit.

328

00:16:00,197 --> 00:16:00,287

Mm-hmm.

329

00:16:00,527 --> 00:16:06,497

Where if we struggle with understanding

what our activators are in our environment

330

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for this habit or intrinsically, I like

that you mentioned that too, because.

331

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Doom.

332

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Scrolling on social media, I feel like

is more intrinsic and like you said,

333

00:16:12,997 --> 00:16:14,287

there's easy access to your phone.

334

00:16:14,317 --> 00:16:14,437

Mm-hmm.

335

00:16:15,037 --> 00:16:18,517

You might not even think about it,

but I was thinking more reflecting and

336

00:16:18,517 --> 00:16:21,697

journaling, but I like how you said, like,

catch yourself in the act or have someone

337

00:16:21,697 --> 00:16:23,257

else around you, I guess, possibly.

338

00:16:23,262 --> 00:16:23,302

Mm-hmm.

339

00:16:23,387 --> 00:16:26,897

Like a, your partner or roommate

that sees you doing something like,

340

00:16:26,897 --> 00:16:29,957

Hey, remember you said, I don't

know if that's even an effective

341

00:16:29,957 --> 00:16:31,797

way to, to do that too, but, mm-hmm.

342

00:16:32,297 --> 00:16:34,967

I didn't even think about trying

to like catch myself in the act

343

00:16:35,027 --> 00:16:36,977

Erin: and like when you are

catching yourself in the act,

344

00:16:36,977 --> 00:16:38,637

it is helpful to take notes.

345

00:16:38,637 --> 00:16:42,637

So especially when I'm helping someone,

you know, build a habit whether, that's

346

00:16:42,637 --> 00:16:47,257

breaking one or actually putting a new

one in like as they do the behavior

347

00:16:47,257 --> 00:16:48,617

or disengage from the behavior.

348

00:16:48,617 --> 00:16:51,317

I do have them often jot down just

some simple notes in like their

349

00:16:51,317 --> 00:16:52,697

phone notes or whatever it might be.

350

00:16:52,877 --> 00:16:54,977

Might not use the phone notes if

we're trying to get off the phone,

351

00:16:54,977 --> 00:16:56,747

but an actual journal or whatnot.

352

00:16:56,747 --> 00:16:57,467

But, um.

353

00:16:58,217 --> 00:17:01,937

Yeah, it's very helpful so that you can

look back and actually look at hard data.

354

00:17:02,187 --> 00:17:06,176

Both like objective data, whether

that's you know, I found myself doing

355

00:17:06,176 --> 00:17:10,666

scrolling for five minutes before I

caught myself or subjective data like.

356

00:17:11,166 --> 00:17:14,527

I realize that it was like very

engaging and pleasurable, but now

357

00:17:14,527 --> 00:17:18,186

I realize I'm behind on my project,

and so I'm feeling X, y, Z now.

358

00:17:18,457 --> 00:17:21,906

Um, so both that subjective and

objective data is super helpful for

359

00:17:21,906 --> 00:17:25,087

making decisions of how you like, move

forward with, I like to call it your

360

00:17:25,087 --> 00:17:26,767

experiment towards behavior change.

361

00:17:26,767 --> 00:17:28,237

It's not just a linear thing.

362

00:17:28,607 --> 00:17:30,892

and the more data you have,

The more efficient you'll

363

00:17:30,892 --> 00:17:32,212

be in making those changes.

364

00:17:32,492 --> 00:17:35,222

rather than kind of like

spiraling around and chasing

365

00:17:35,222 --> 00:17:36,602

one shiny object after another.

366

00:17:37,052 --> 00:17:39,302

Kelsy: I like the language

you used with it saying, like

367

00:17:39,302 --> 00:17:40,442

you said earlier, bad habit.

368

00:17:40,442 --> 00:17:41,252

I meant to mention this.

369

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Mm-hmm.

370

00:17:41,627 --> 00:17:45,092

But not a bad habit, but like you

said, realizing it's maybe not

371

00:17:45,092 --> 00:17:46,112

the habit that I wanna be for.

372

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And feeling it was something else.

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'cause I think a lot of the times with

habit formation, with New Year's goals,

374

00:17:50,812 --> 00:17:55,772

we can get so down on ourselves For

not successfully accomplishing them or.

375

00:17:56,032 --> 00:17:59,622

oh, I reverted to this bad

habit that I wanna break, and I

376

00:17:59,622 --> 00:18:02,622

didn't successfully accomplish

this goal that I wanted to make.

377

00:18:02,622 --> 00:18:05,712

And you were saying the process of

experimentation, like using words

378

00:18:05,712 --> 00:18:09,637

that, I guess foster this sense of

effort and maybe more journey based

379

00:18:09,637 --> 00:18:13,957

language to reaching certain habits

or goals that we have, or creating

380

00:18:13,957 --> 00:18:18,247

those as part of our routines and

not thinking of them as bad or?

381

00:18:18,747 --> 00:18:22,077

Negative in some way, but

taking a step back and realizing

382

00:18:22,077 --> 00:18:23,607

what problem they're solving.

383

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And not being so hard on yourself

for maybe reverting back to that,

384

00:18:27,067 --> 00:18:31,217

but I just like the language that you

use for some of this kind of stuff.

385

00:18:31,247 --> 00:18:34,247

Erin: One of the things, and this is

really game changing, when I was first

386

00:18:34,247 --> 00:18:37,277

learning about kind of behavior change

and behavioral science and that we

387

00:18:37,277 --> 00:18:41,247

really talk about, in our course and

the book that I have coming out is that.

388

00:18:41,907 --> 00:18:44,817

Every behavior is a good

behavior because every behavior

389

00:18:44,817 --> 00:18:46,167

is there to solve a problem.

390

00:18:46,197 --> 00:18:49,167

And thank God, like we'd be falling

over ourselves if we weren't

391

00:18:49,497 --> 00:18:50,967

solving these problems immediately.

392

00:18:51,337 --> 00:18:55,177

where they become a quote unquote

problem for us, or maybe a bad behavior

393

00:18:55,177 --> 00:18:59,047

or a bad habit, is when they come in

contrast with our long-term goals.

394

00:18:59,347 --> 00:19:04,867

So, and being able to have long-term goals

is actually rather new and a privilege

395

00:19:05,267 --> 00:19:09,437

to be able to think about because for

millennia, we had to solve for right now.

396

00:19:09,932 --> 00:19:10,832

We had to survive.

397

00:19:11,042 --> 00:19:14,592

And some people even today, are still

in survival mode and they don't have

398

00:19:14,592 --> 00:19:16,242

the privilege of thinking long term.

399

00:19:16,512 --> 00:19:19,902

So they need to do whatever they

need to do to survive right now.

400

00:19:19,902 --> 00:19:21,492

So thank goodness we have that.

401

00:19:21,492 --> 00:19:23,352

And you should have lots

of empathy for yourself.

402

00:19:23,572 --> 00:19:27,002

What I prefer to refer to them as is

productive and unproductive habits,

403

00:19:27,002 --> 00:19:31,022

because it's only when they come

in contrast to our long-term goals

404

00:19:31,022 --> 00:19:32,552

that they potentially are a problem.

405

00:19:32,552 --> 00:19:33,422

But in the moment.

406

00:19:33,567 --> 00:19:34,347

They're very helpful

407

00:19:34,527 --> 00:19:37,457

Kelsy: and you not reaching a

certain thing or falling short of

408

00:19:37,457 --> 00:19:39,107

what you think is experimentation.

409

00:19:39,197 --> 00:19:39,287

Mm-hmm.

410

00:19:39,527 --> 00:19:42,527

It's, you're experimenting with

creating this habit or goal or

411

00:19:42,527 --> 00:19:43,787

behavior change that you want.

412

00:19:43,847 --> 00:19:44,057

Yep.

413

00:19:44,477 --> 00:19:46,487

You also mentioned the need for reward.

414

00:19:46,517 --> 00:19:46,607

Mm-hmm.

415

00:19:46,847 --> 00:19:48,617

And you said a lot of people forget that.

416

00:19:48,797 --> 00:19:48,917

Yep.

417

00:19:48,947 --> 00:19:52,687

I know for me, sometimes I forget

the phrase, but dangle a carrot

418

00:19:52,687 --> 00:19:53,437

in front of your face mm-hmm.

419

00:19:53,472 --> 00:19:55,567

Or dangle a cookie in front of

your face, like some sort of

420

00:19:55,627 --> 00:19:59,487

external rewarding stimuli for.

421

00:19:59,987 --> 00:20:01,847

My effort towards a certain goal.

422

00:20:02,417 --> 00:20:08,207

Explain the different types of rewards

for us and what roles they play when it

423

00:20:08,207 --> 00:20:11,087

comes to either goals, habits, or both.

424

00:20:11,297 --> 00:20:14,927

Erin: Yeah, so one thing we wanna make

sure to steer away from is what's called

425

00:20:14,927 --> 00:20:16,487

like the carrots and sticks method.

426

00:20:16,537 --> 00:20:19,267

that's been around for ages, and

that's where you dangle the carrot.

427

00:20:19,267 --> 00:20:23,377

You're like, oh, if I, you know,

lose five pounds or if I, you know,

428

00:20:23,377 --> 00:20:24,727

exercise every day for the next.

429

00:20:24,797 --> 00:20:28,457

Week I get to indulge in a

delicious meal or I get to go

430

00:20:28,457 --> 00:20:30,107

gamble or party or whatever.

431

00:20:30,427 --> 00:20:33,967

And on the other side, the stick side,

you know, you get punished in some way

432

00:20:33,967 --> 00:20:37,417

for not reaching your goal or doing the

behaviors you're supposed to do every day.

433

00:20:37,977 --> 00:20:42,437

We don't wanna be going after those

external rewards I don't really like

434

00:20:42,437 --> 00:20:44,387

to use the term rewards too much.

435

00:20:44,387 --> 00:20:47,987

I like to use rewarding experience

or enjoyable experience, is that

436

00:20:47,987 --> 00:20:53,417

the experience of the behavior

needs to be rewarding, but we don't

437

00:20:53,417 --> 00:20:56,597

really want to go after a reward.

438

00:20:56,907 --> 00:21:00,387

and the difference is that

like, okay, if I am, you know,

439

00:21:00,387 --> 00:21:02,277

I wanna run a mile every day.

440

00:21:02,547 --> 00:21:05,907

If I am just like loathing

that entire 10 minute mile or

441

00:21:05,907 --> 00:21:07,002

whatever it takes me to do it.

442

00:21:07,502 --> 00:21:10,472

Then I'm likely not gonna

keep doing that for very long.

443

00:21:10,562 --> 00:21:13,142

Like I'm not gonna keep doing

something that is unenjoyable.

444

00:21:13,262 --> 00:21:17,352

And oftentimes what we consider valuable

and worth going after to achieve our

445

00:21:17,352 --> 00:21:22,592

goals, not only are they maybe like,

just meh toward them and they're

446

00:21:22,592 --> 00:21:27,242

unenjoyable, like they might actually

be like, painful, um, in some way,

447

00:21:27,462 --> 00:21:29,082

physically or emotionally or whatnot.

448

00:21:29,647 --> 00:21:33,697

So we need to make the experience

of doing it rewarding rather

449

00:21:33,697 --> 00:21:36,397

than doing it to get a reward.

450

00:21:36,397 --> 00:21:40,457

And so if I keep using the running

example, can I like put on, you know, if

451

00:21:40,457 --> 00:21:44,177

it takes 10 minutes to run a mile, can

I put on my four, like all time favorite

452

00:21:44,177 --> 00:21:49,117

pump up songs to make that experience

enjoyable or my favorite, comedy podcast

453

00:21:49,307 --> 00:21:52,907

or can I go do that run in my favorite

place in the city that I live in?

454

00:21:53,237 --> 00:21:56,597

Um, so how do I make the

experience more rewarding rather

455

00:21:56,597 --> 00:21:58,187

than going after a reward?

456

00:21:58,187 --> 00:22:01,037

Because the problem with going after

award or potentially getting punished for

457

00:22:01,037 --> 00:22:06,347

not achieving the reward is that at best

we stick to it for that amount of time.

458

00:22:06,437 --> 00:22:09,917

You know, until the reward comes or

until we potentially get punished.

459

00:22:10,197 --> 00:22:11,457

At worst we end up.

460

00:22:11,607 --> 00:22:12,567

Undergoing reactant.

461

00:22:12,597 --> 00:22:15,627

So this is where we basically do the

exact opposite of what we wanna do.

462

00:22:15,837 --> 00:22:18,567

We end up sitting on the couch We

ended up, you know, going out and

463

00:22:18,567 --> 00:22:21,627

binge eating at a burger joint instead

of eating the healthy food we cooked.

464

00:22:21,907 --> 00:22:25,347

we end up, sitting and watching TV instead

of having our spiritual or prayer time.

465

00:22:25,717 --> 00:22:27,577

So it's more about.

466

00:22:28,242 --> 00:22:31,452

Making the experience of the behavior

we're doing rewarding and there

467

00:22:31,452 --> 00:22:33,192

are a few strategies we can do.

468

00:22:33,222 --> 00:22:37,492

Um, temptation bundling is one of them,

which is where we make a pact with ourself

469

00:22:37,732 --> 00:22:42,842

that we're only gonna do a rewarding

behavior with the desired behavior.

470

00:22:42,842 --> 00:22:45,812

So, like I said, maybe we are only

get to listen to our four favorite

471

00:22:45,812 --> 00:22:47,017

songs or that comedy podcast.

472

00:22:47,611 --> 00:22:50,791

When we're doing our 10 minute run, at no

other time can we listen to those songs.

473

00:22:50,791 --> 00:22:52,711

At no other time can we

listen to that podcast.

474

00:22:52,741 --> 00:22:56,011

And that's one strategy of

many, um, that can be helpful.

475

00:22:56,011 --> 00:23:01,951

But we wanna try to refrain from if I

do X behavior or if I achieve X goal.

476

00:23:02,501 --> 00:23:04,811

Then I'm gonna get XY reward.

477

00:23:05,471 --> 00:23:12,301

Kelsy: Are you always going to

have to rely on making that journey

478

00:23:12,301 --> 00:23:13,981

or that experience rewarding?

479

00:23:14,191 --> 00:23:19,711

Or is there a shift that can

happen to be like, oh, I am playing

480

00:23:19,741 --> 00:23:22,711

my favorite music on this run.

481

00:23:22,956 --> 00:23:25,441

I think I'm actually enjoying

running, I'm a runner.

482

00:23:25,521 --> 00:23:26,241

shifting.

483

00:23:26,691 --> 00:23:29,901

From that rewarding experience and

journey to now this is a part of my

484

00:23:29,901 --> 00:23:32,031

identity, this is who I am as a runner.

485

00:23:32,031 --> 00:23:34,461

Is there any overlap there?

486

00:23:34,521 --> 00:23:37,251

Erin: So for most people, that does

happen, and that's the whole point,

487

00:23:37,251 --> 00:23:40,521

is we need to make it rewarding early

on when it's not fun, when it's not

488

00:23:40,521 --> 00:23:45,321

enjoyable, when it's hard to get us to

consistently do the rep so that it becomes

489

00:23:45,321 --> 00:23:49,971

a repeated behavior or a habit so that it

eventually becomes a part of our identity.

490

00:23:49,971 --> 00:23:53,211

So no longer am I someone who's

trying to build a running habit.

491

00:23:53,511 --> 00:23:54,531

I am a runner.

492

00:23:55,101 --> 00:23:56,991

That is an important part of who I am.

493

00:23:56,991 --> 00:24:01,671

So now I go run because running is

who I am and yeah, I might still wanna

494

00:24:01,671 --> 00:24:05,481

listen to some music or I might be

to a point where I can just go for

495

00:24:05,481 --> 00:24:09,381

a run wherever, whenever, because

it feels good to reinforce who I am

496

00:24:09,381 --> 00:24:11,331

and to live the person I want to be.

497

00:24:11,631 --> 00:24:13,311

Now, I mean, I don't know about you.

498

00:24:13,341 --> 00:24:15,171

We both, started out in fitness.

499

00:24:15,221 --> 00:24:17,921

Bulgarian split squats

are never going to be fun.

500

00:24:17,921 --> 00:24:19,151

They always suck.

501

00:24:19,646 --> 00:24:22,226

But like, I still do them

because they're great for you.

502

00:24:22,226 --> 00:24:24,746

And I'm an exerciser and I'm a

fitness person and it's a very

503

00:24:24,746 --> 00:24:25,856

important part of my identity.

504

00:24:25,856 --> 00:24:28,226

I wanna be healthy and move

until I'm a hundred years old.

505

00:24:28,526 --> 00:24:31,496

You know, eventually, the hope is

that it does become a part of your

506

00:24:31,496 --> 00:24:33,236

identity and one of your values.

507

00:24:33,236 --> 00:24:35,696

And so that is what kind of

motivates you to keep doing it.

508

00:24:35,876 --> 00:24:39,346

But it's super important initially to

create, those rewarding experiences

509

00:24:39,706 --> 00:24:41,236

around those desired behaviors.

510

00:24:41,911 --> 00:24:42,961

Bulgarian split squats.

511

00:24:42,961 --> 00:24:43,261

Man,

512

00:24:43,596 --> 00:24:46,911

Kelsy: that's, if that example

doesn't resonate with me, I don't

513

00:24:46,911 --> 00:24:48,411

know what will, because that is one.

514

00:24:48,411 --> 00:24:49,341

But I agree.

515

00:24:49,341 --> 00:24:52,601

It's like I do them because I want good

bone marrow density, good muscle, Mel.

516

00:24:52,601 --> 00:24:54,071

Like I have all of

these longer term goals.

517

00:24:54,071 --> 00:24:56,891

I'm someone who cares about my

health and therefore I do that.

518

00:24:57,541 --> 00:25:00,621

So I guess when it comes to rewards.

519

00:25:01,121 --> 00:25:04,837

I was always taught early on extrinsic

rewards are good, but you're sort

520

00:25:04,837 --> 00:25:07,537

of flipping that script and saying

it's the rewarding journey early

521

00:25:07,537 --> 00:25:12,037

on, and maybe it turns more of an

intrinsic reward in who I am as a

522

00:25:12,037 --> 00:25:14,917

person as we sort of progress through

523

00:25:14,917 --> 00:25:15,157

Erin: Yeah.

524

00:25:15,427 --> 00:25:20,767

I'll say there's maybe one caveat

to that is if you have an extrinsic

525

00:25:20,767 --> 00:25:23,347

reward that reinforces the habit.

526

00:25:23,677 --> 00:25:27,097

So the easiest example I can give

is especially when I've worked with

527

00:25:27,097 --> 00:25:28,927

like weight loss clients in the past.

528

00:25:29,287 --> 00:25:33,127

We have the goal of like, we're gonna

do some sort of exercise for 20 minutes,

529

00:25:33,127 --> 00:25:34,717

you know, at least five days a week.

530

00:25:35,077 --> 00:25:39,657

And we set the goal that if we hit at

least 80% of that in a month, then I'm

531

00:25:39,657 --> 00:25:41,427

gonna buy a new pair of workout clothes.

532

00:25:41,727 --> 00:25:45,387

So that workout clothes is exciting

because it makes you look good and it

533

00:25:45,387 --> 00:25:47,757

makes you want to go reinforce the habit.

534

00:25:47,997 --> 00:25:51,387

If you're working on a writing habit and

you hit, you know, 20 minutes, five days

535

00:25:51,387 --> 00:25:54,717

a week, 80% of the time for a month,

maybe you go buy like a really cool new

536

00:25:54,717 --> 00:25:57,177

pen or a really cool new journal or.

537

00:25:57,237 --> 00:25:59,817

Finally you get your new laptop that

you've always been wanted if you

538

00:25:59,817 --> 00:26:00,837

hit it for a certain amount of time.

539

00:26:01,107 --> 00:26:03,237

So that's the one place where

I'll say it's sort of okay

540

00:26:03,237 --> 00:26:04,407

to have an external reward.

541

00:26:04,437 --> 00:26:08,637

If the external reward kinda reinforces

the behavior we're trying to build.

542

00:26:08,937 --> 00:26:09,807

Kelsy: Or the journey too.

543

00:26:09,897 --> 00:26:10,617

Makes the journey

544

00:26:10,642 --> 00:26:10,962

Mm-hmm.

545

00:26:11,047 --> 00:26:11,827

That much more rewarding.

546

00:26:11,827 --> 00:26:15,037

'cause you're seeing yourself work

out in a cute, new, active work set.

547

00:26:15,037 --> 00:26:15,127

Right.

548

00:26:15,127 --> 00:26:18,447

And you're like, wow, this is making that

journey, that experience more rewarding.

549

00:26:18,477 --> 00:26:18,687

Mm-hmm.

550

00:26:18,987 --> 00:26:22,587

So when it comes to motivation and

discipline with forming habits,

551

00:26:22,797 --> 00:26:23,937

what role do those guys play?

552

00:26:24,437 --> 00:26:27,227

For habit formation and

behavior change specifically?

553

00:26:27,887 --> 00:26:28,127

Erin: Yeah.

554

00:26:28,127 --> 00:26:31,067

So motivation is gonna ebb and flow.

555

00:26:31,217 --> 00:26:33,767

It's kind of like emotions

or the wave on the ocean.

556

00:26:33,767 --> 00:26:36,207

It's gonna come and go

for a variety of reasons.

557

00:26:36,207 --> 00:26:38,337

So you don't wanna count on it.

558

00:26:38,367 --> 00:26:41,007

'cause if you count on it, you're

not going to be consistent.

559

00:26:41,527 --> 00:26:44,917

Discipline or willpower, same thing.

560

00:26:44,977 --> 00:26:46,177

It's gonna ebb and flow.

561

00:26:46,442 --> 00:26:49,412

What research actually shows,

especially with discipline and

562

00:26:49,412 --> 00:26:54,662

willpower, is that those who quote

unquote have the most use it the least.

563

00:26:54,692 --> 00:26:57,632

And the reason they use it the

least is 'cause they're actually

564

00:26:57,632 --> 00:27:00,992

setting up their environments, like

we talked about earlier, so that

565

00:27:00,992 --> 00:27:03,032

they don't have to use discipline.

566

00:27:03,032 --> 00:27:06,152

So their home environment, their work

environment, where they spend 80 plus

567

00:27:06,152 --> 00:27:10,562

percent of their time, it's set up so

that the desired choice, the desired

568

00:27:10,562 --> 00:27:14,432

behavior, is the easy, obvious default.

569

00:27:14,812 --> 00:27:16,222

Enjoyable behavior to do.

570

00:27:16,682 --> 00:27:21,632

And then they only have to reserve

using discipline or willpower or,

571

00:27:21,632 --> 00:27:24,332

you know, that boost of motivation

when they're kind of out in the wild.

572

00:27:24,332 --> 00:27:27,572

Maybe they're traveling, uh, maybe

they're at a work conference or something

573

00:27:27,572 --> 00:27:31,052

where they don't have hardly any

control over the environment, and then

574

00:27:31,052 --> 00:27:32,732

they can flex that discipline muscle.

575

00:27:33,072 --> 00:27:36,522

Because you know, they have this

identity and these values that they hold.

576

00:27:36,772 --> 00:27:42,232

Or they decide that like this is a one-off

situation and you know, this is a social

577

00:27:42,352 --> 00:27:45,382

gathering or whatever and I want to

enjoy this and I'm just gonna enjoy it.

578

00:27:45,382 --> 00:27:48,562

And then when I get back to my normal

environment, I'm gonna get right back to

579

00:27:48,562 --> 00:27:50,272

my normal habits and behaviors right away.

580

00:27:50,582 --> 00:27:52,502

So it plays a role.

581

00:27:52,532 --> 00:27:55,562

I would say the biggest thing,

particularly with motivation is like

582

00:27:55,592 --> 00:27:57,602

early on when you're starting

your behavior change journey

583

00:27:57,842 --> 00:27:59,702

is really thinking into like.

584

00:28:00,137 --> 00:28:02,717

What behavior do I wanna do?

585

00:28:03,137 --> 00:28:04,757

Why do I wanna do it?

586

00:28:05,507 --> 00:28:07,637

Why is now a good time to do it?

587

00:28:07,927 --> 00:28:10,417

And really digging in and

keep asking yourself why no

588

00:28:10,417 --> 00:28:11,107

matter what the behavior is.

589

00:28:11,607 --> 00:28:14,607

Answer it to yourself, write

it out, and then ask why again?

590

00:28:14,607 --> 00:28:19,677

And get to that really deep why, and

then that can serve as the motivator

591

00:28:19,977 --> 00:28:23,427

when you're out in the wild and life

gets crazy and chaotic, or it's a hell

592

00:28:23,427 --> 00:28:25,257

of a day and everything's going wrong.

593

00:28:25,257 --> 00:28:28,827

You can really dig into that why as

your motivation as opposed to just

594

00:28:28,827 --> 00:28:30,647

some superficial source of motivation.

595

00:28:31,147 --> 00:28:32,272

Kelsy: Switching gears a little bit.

596

00:28:32,272 --> 00:28:32,632

Mm-hmm.

597

00:28:33,272 --> 00:28:34,867

I have struggled in the past with.

598

00:28:34,932 --> 00:28:38,112

Goal formation and forming way

too many goals in the new year.

599

00:28:38,112 --> 00:28:41,592

Way too many goals that I wanna make

as habits, as part of my routine

600

00:28:41,592 --> 00:28:45,622

in the new year, where it's each,

facet of my life, like professional,

601

00:28:45,622 --> 00:28:49,642

personal, interpersonal, faith,

financial travel, all sorts of

602

00:28:49,642 --> 00:28:51,202

goals in all sorts of categories.

603

00:28:51,232 --> 00:28:52,852

So that's one of my problems.

604

00:28:52,852 --> 00:28:52,942

Mm-hmm.

605

00:28:53,182 --> 00:28:55,612

The second problem I've had in the

past is making too broad of goals.

606

00:28:55,612 --> 00:28:59,152

So thinking like travel more where

it's hard for me to actually.

607

00:28:59,652 --> 00:29:04,002

Create systems and experiences,

I guess, that allow me to be

608

00:29:04,002 --> 00:29:07,302

successful in that goal because I

don't have an objective way to track.

609

00:29:07,302 --> 00:29:07,392

Mm-hmm.

610

00:29:07,632 --> 00:29:08,562

Have I traveled more?

611

00:29:08,562 --> 00:29:12,222

You know, so A, I make goals,

too many goals, and B, I make

612

00:29:12,222 --> 00:29:13,272

goals that are too broad.

613

00:29:13,272 --> 00:29:13,392

Mm-hmm.

614

00:29:13,692 --> 00:29:16,782

What would be some of your tips for

people who are trying to make goals

615

00:29:16,782 --> 00:29:18,492

and build habits off of those goals?

616

00:29:18,992 --> 00:29:24,062

How can we form better goals

from even a language standpoint

617

00:29:24,272 --> 00:29:25,742

that allows us to be better at.

618

00:29:26,242 --> 00:29:29,722

Knowing what those goals are,

remembering them and putting in

619

00:29:29,752 --> 00:29:34,342

the systems and environments in

place needed to reach those goals.

620

00:29:34,602 --> 00:29:38,232

Erin: I'll say one thing that I always

think back is that success breeds success.

621

00:29:38,502 --> 00:29:44,252

So we wanna set ourself up for success

and have success in one area so that we

622

00:29:44,252 --> 00:29:46,742

can then fuel success in other areas.

623

00:29:46,742 --> 00:29:47,522

And what do I mean by that?

624

00:29:47,522 --> 00:29:52,742

Well, you set way too big of goals and

too many, so start with just one thing

625

00:29:53,042 --> 00:29:55,022

and you know, you said travel more world.

626

00:29:55,062 --> 00:29:58,302

I mean, I guess it's sort of an action,

like you're going about traveling, but

627

00:29:58,302 --> 00:29:59,859

it's not really, it's like an outcome.

628

00:29:59,859 --> 00:30:00,159

Outcome.

629

00:30:00,369 --> 00:30:00,459

Mm-hmm.

630

00:30:00,649 --> 00:30:01,739

but what does travel more mean?

631

00:30:02,069 --> 00:30:04,349

Like, where, how much

are you traveling now?

632

00:30:04,619 --> 00:30:06,149

How are you quantifying that?

633

00:30:06,399 --> 00:30:10,619

and how much more, if you're taking three

trips a year what does travel more mean?

634

00:30:10,619 --> 00:30:11,849

Is that four trips a year now?

635

00:30:11,849 --> 00:30:12,239

Is that five?

636

00:30:12,239 --> 00:30:13,019

Are we doubling it?

637

00:30:13,019 --> 00:30:14,129

Is it six trips a year?

638

00:30:14,429 --> 00:30:14,999

Are we tripling?

639

00:30:14,999 --> 00:30:15,719

Is it nine trips?

640

00:30:15,719 --> 00:30:18,119

Like what does travel more mean actually?

641

00:30:18,389 --> 00:30:22,559

Um, and then how are you going to track

that so that you can account for, okay.

642

00:30:22,629 --> 00:30:24,399

2025, I took three trips.

643

00:30:24,639 --> 00:30:29,189

And how am I gonna know if I took

six in, 20, 26 if that's what I want.

644

00:30:29,449 --> 00:30:32,179

Also the behaviors to traveling more.

645

00:30:32,299 --> 00:30:32,959

What does that mean?

646

00:30:32,959 --> 00:30:34,969

It means I have to create a plan.

647

00:30:34,969 --> 00:30:38,069

I have to buy tickets, I

have to purchase hotel rooms.

648

00:30:38,069 --> 00:30:41,669

I have to, create, an itinerary of

what I wanna do and where I wanna do.

649

00:30:41,669 --> 00:30:47,799

So actually time blocking time to do

those actions that make travel happen.

650

00:30:48,189 --> 00:30:49,389

And like starting small.

651

00:30:49,389 --> 00:30:52,359

So like I wouldn't go from

three trips to nine trips.

652

00:30:52,599 --> 00:30:55,119

I would probably say,

can I get four trips?

653

00:30:55,119 --> 00:30:57,999

Like I don't, I don't know how crazy your

schedule is, but can I do just one more?

654

00:30:57,999 --> 00:31:02,049

Start small so that you see

yourself being successful and

655

00:31:02,049 --> 00:31:03,279

then if you achieve that, great.

656

00:31:03,279 --> 00:31:03,939

Your success.

657

00:31:03,939 --> 00:31:05,829

You've built the rep,

you've built the identity.

658

00:31:06,329 --> 00:31:08,459

If you wanna do more, great,

but you're already successful.

659

00:31:08,459 --> 00:31:11,669

So instead of, what we wanna try

to avoid is like failure states

660

00:31:11,669 --> 00:31:13,769

and shame spirals early on.

661

00:31:13,979 --> 00:31:17,879

Um, and so we really want to set

ourselves up to have early success

662

00:31:17,879 --> 00:31:19,529

and success is motivating too.

663

00:31:19,869 --> 00:31:21,939

But that will get us to do

hopefully the next step.

664

00:31:22,359 --> 00:31:25,389

Um, so being able to like

actually quantify where I am.

665

00:31:26,272 --> 00:31:30,322

Where I want to go, then what behaviors

do I need to do to make that happen?

666

00:31:30,322 --> 00:31:34,252

And then actually blocking the

time to do those behaviors.

667

00:31:35,002 --> 00:31:37,462

You do wanna make sure that

whatever behaviors you're picking,

668

00:31:37,792 --> 00:31:39,532

they're smaller than you think.

669

00:31:39,782 --> 00:31:43,122

if you've ever read BJ Fogg's

Tiny Habits book, he talks about,

670

00:31:43,122 --> 00:31:44,592

it's so absolutely ridiculous.

671

00:31:44,592 --> 00:31:49,202

But it it's because it makes a point, like

if you wanna build a flossing habit, you

672

00:31:49,202 --> 00:31:51,152

start flossing the gap between one tooth.

673

00:31:51,547 --> 00:31:53,887

You're successful, you've built

the rep, you're a flosser.

674

00:31:53,887 --> 00:31:57,457

If you flush just one gap every night,

now it feels absolutely ridiculous.

675

00:31:57,457 --> 00:32:00,937

And we call this in our program, the

Domino action, because what happens is

676

00:32:00,937 --> 00:32:05,827

like if you complete the domino action,

if I floss just one tooth gap, I've done

677

00:32:05,827 --> 00:32:07,837

the rep, I've, you know, checked the box.

678

00:32:07,837 --> 00:32:10,507

If I'm building that identity

as a flosser, good can call it.

679

00:32:10,747 --> 00:32:14,107

Likelihood of me stopping because

it feels so ridiculous of flossing.

680

00:32:14,107 --> 00:32:17,437

One tooth cap is very slim, so I'm

likely gonna knock all the dominoes

681

00:32:17,437 --> 00:32:20,377

over and just get 'em all floss 'cause

it takes like 30 seconds anyways.

682

00:32:20,657 --> 00:32:22,517

so you wanna start smaller than you think.

683

00:32:22,877 --> 00:32:26,207

And the other reason is, is like say

you just have the worst day ever.

684

00:32:26,567 --> 00:32:28,727

I mean, sure you could

miss one day here or there.

685

00:32:28,727 --> 00:32:31,907

We say you should be, you should be,

uh, getting the reps in 80% of the

686

00:32:31,907 --> 00:32:35,457

time and you should be able to build

a pretty strong, habit doing that.

687

00:32:35,957 --> 00:32:39,077

You don't have to be perfect by any

means, but if you're missing more than

688

00:32:39,077 --> 00:32:41,597

that, then you're not really building

the habit, building the identity, and

689

00:32:41,597 --> 00:32:44,007

it's not gonna be easily, repeatable.

690

00:32:44,337 --> 00:32:50,877

So small, build early success, and then

you can incrementally level up from there.

691

00:32:51,377 --> 00:32:54,497

Kelsy: I don't know if you realize that

you did this, and maybe I'm applying what

692

00:32:54,497 --> 00:32:56,122

you said earlier in the wrong way, but.

693

00:32:56,622 --> 00:33:00,072

With a goal of travel, more outcome

based, you immediately broke it down

694

00:33:00,072 --> 00:33:05,762

into process goals, and then I like

how you basically did that for my goal,

695

00:33:05,762 --> 00:33:09,182

my outcome, goal of travel more, and

then you broke it up into process,

696

00:33:09,182 --> 00:33:10,652

like what flights do I need to book?

697

00:33:10,712 --> 00:33:11,942

All of these sorts of things.

698

00:33:11,942 --> 00:33:12,032

Mm-hmm.

699

00:33:12,272 --> 00:33:15,362

Is that how someone who maybe sets

broad goals should think about it?

700

00:33:15,362 --> 00:33:18,662

Let's take maybe a more popular

example of exercise more.

701

00:33:18,692 --> 00:33:18,992

Mm-hmm.

702

00:33:19,492 --> 00:33:22,972

Is there a benefit to breaking

it down from that outcome

703

00:33:22,972 --> 00:33:24,622

goal to more process goals?

704

00:33:24,622 --> 00:33:27,172

And then like you said,

reflecting on why is this a goal?

705

00:33:27,177 --> 00:33:27,267

Mm-hmm.

706

00:33:27,347 --> 00:33:29,842

Why is this my goal right

now at this moment in time?

707

00:33:30,112 --> 00:33:33,262

I guess maybe tying that more to

identity is how I took that, right?

708

00:33:33,262 --> 00:33:33,982

Erin: that accurate

709

00:33:33,982 --> 00:33:34,372

Kelsy: or,

710

00:33:34,592 --> 00:33:34,862

Erin: Yeah.

711

00:33:34,862 --> 00:33:38,492

So start with, I mean, it's important

to have that outcome goal, but just

712

00:33:38,492 --> 00:33:39,992

think of it like set it and forget it.

713

00:33:39,992 --> 00:33:41,522

Like that's the guidepost.

714

00:33:41,672 --> 00:33:43,502

Now what do I need to do to get there?

715

00:33:43,682 --> 00:33:45,252

And then why do I want to do that?

716

00:33:45,472 --> 00:33:45,622

because.

717

00:33:46,237 --> 00:33:50,157

I might think the obvious, if I want

to exercise more, if I go all the

718

00:33:50,157 --> 00:33:51,657

way down to okay, exercise more.

719

00:33:51,657 --> 00:33:54,657

So strength train three times

a week, cardio twice a week,

720

00:33:54,897 --> 00:33:55,857

and then I get into the Y.

721

00:33:55,857 --> 00:33:57,897

While I wanna be healthy, I

wanna play with my grandkids.

722

00:33:57,927 --> 00:34:00,057

All this stuff that really

is really meaningful.

723

00:34:00,267 --> 00:34:03,387

But then I go back to those

behaviors and if like, I hate

724

00:34:03,387 --> 00:34:04,917

cardio on a, you know, on a t.

725

00:34:05,624 --> 00:34:06,944

Well, that's not gonna work for me.

726

00:34:06,944 --> 00:34:09,764

So maybe I decide I'm gonna go

do a cardio dance class instead.

727

00:34:09,764 --> 00:34:13,123

So I do need to get down the

process and then identity and figure

728

00:34:13,123 --> 00:34:14,384

out what's actually gonna work.

729

00:34:14,384 --> 00:34:17,893

But I also need to figure out like

what am I going to do long term?

730

00:34:17,893 --> 00:34:22,964

How do I balance that need between what I

kind of have to do and what I enjoy doing.

731

00:34:23,184 --> 00:34:26,369

It's gonna depend per

person, but yes, outcome.

732

00:34:26,614 --> 00:34:29,944

Behavior identity and then often going

back to the behaviors to make sure you

733

00:34:29,944 --> 00:34:33,813

have the right person behavior fit,

and that, you know, you have the time

734

00:34:33,813 --> 00:34:37,804

to do it, you have the resources and

skills to do it, um, so that you're

735

00:34:37,804 --> 00:34:39,244

actually successful in doing it.

736

00:34:39,914 --> 00:34:43,454

Kelsy: Is there something where when

it comes to behavior change, people can

737

00:34:43,454 --> 00:34:48,014

really only remember certain goals, like

three goals throughout the whole year?

738

00:34:48,014 --> 00:34:51,643

Is there something very like

objective about how many goals we're

739

00:34:51,643 --> 00:34:52,934

actually to keep in mind throughout.

740

00:34:53,534 --> 00:34:57,314

A whole year to be consistent with

or, or work towards those goals?

741

00:34:57,674 --> 00:34:59,924

Erin: Yeah, I mean, I think

three is generally the number

742

00:34:59,924 --> 00:35:00,884

that's thrown out there.

743

00:35:00,884 --> 00:35:02,534

I would say it really

depends on the person.

744

00:35:02,534 --> 00:35:05,584

Some people can compartmentalize

like, okay, I have, this goal for

745

00:35:05,584 --> 00:35:09,794

work and this goal for personal

life and this goal for X, Y, Z.

746

00:35:10,324 --> 00:35:11,434

I would say it really depends.

747

00:35:11,434 --> 00:35:13,354

I mean, how complex, how big.

748

00:35:13,714 --> 00:35:15,124

Harry audacious is this goal?

749

00:35:15,124 --> 00:35:18,004

You know, I don't have a hard and fast

answer to that, but I would definitely

750

00:35:18,004 --> 00:35:21,794

say like it, most people's lives are

crazy, so if you are successful with

751

00:35:21,794 --> 00:35:24,674

one goal in a year, that's probably

more successful than most people are.

752

00:35:24,974 --> 00:35:28,574

Most people are just cruising and

surviving, uh, and not thriving.

753

00:35:28,574 --> 00:35:31,284

So, start with one and see how that goes.

754

00:35:31,284 --> 00:35:31,914

Build from that.

755

00:35:31,914 --> 00:35:34,644

Try to actually be successful and

achieve what you wanna achieve

756

00:35:34,644 --> 00:35:36,054

consistently for the long term.

757

00:35:36,444 --> 00:35:40,379

And then maybe you don't wait until you

fully achieve that, but once you start.

758

00:35:40,894 --> 00:35:45,064

Grooving success with that one, then

maybe you start another, some people

759

00:35:45,064 --> 00:35:49,324

might be able to handle like two or

three, like one work and one personal.

760

00:35:49,594 --> 00:35:52,444

Um, but honestly, like if I'm working

with them, I'm gonna do like a

761

00:35:52,444 --> 00:35:55,024

whole assessment on them to see kind

of what's going on in their life.

762

00:35:55,024 --> 00:35:58,144

But, um, I would say less is

more when you're starting out.

763

00:35:58,144 --> 00:36:00,694

And then as you become more and more

competent and you see yourself being

764

00:36:00,694 --> 00:36:04,024

successful, um, and you have the time

and the resources and the skills to be

765

00:36:04,024 --> 00:36:05,164

able to do the things you want to do.

766

00:36:05,164 --> 00:36:05,434

Sure.

767

00:36:05,464 --> 00:36:05,734

Yeah.

768

00:36:05,784 --> 00:36:06,234

For sure.

769

00:36:06,264 --> 00:36:07,194

Layer on more of them.

770

00:36:07,734 --> 00:36:10,284

Kelsy: Bringing it back to the

tiny changes that you said,

771

00:36:10,284 --> 00:36:11,784

like floss in between one tooth.

772

00:36:12,324 --> 00:36:15,079

I mentioned earlier about the

daily spiritual practice and my.

773

00:36:15,579 --> 00:36:19,239

My timer that I have, I do have a

timer for the environment that I'm

774

00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:23,619

trying to create that activates this

certain habit formation that I want and

775

00:36:23,619 --> 00:36:25,209

behavior change that I want in my life.

776

00:36:25,449 --> 00:36:26,619

I'd set it for six minutes.

777

00:36:26,624 --> 00:36:26,724

Mm-hmm.

778

00:36:26,844 --> 00:36:29,639

'cause I knew six minutes is

what I can like actually do.

779

00:36:29,759 --> 00:36:29,849

Mm-hmm.

780

00:36:30,089 --> 00:36:30,809

Every day.

781

00:36:30,929 --> 00:36:34,219

And I've noticed after I

noticed how inconsistent I was

782

00:36:34,219 --> 00:36:37,189

with some of the broad and.

783

00:36:37,689 --> 00:36:41,949

Quantity of goals that I used to

make, that it really was that floss

784

00:36:41,949 --> 00:36:44,799

one tooth sort of goal that I'm

able to stay more consistent with.

785

00:36:44,799 --> 00:36:48,399

And yeah, like you said, flossing one

tooth, you're not just gonna floss

786

00:36:48,399 --> 00:36:51,659

one tooth, most of the time you're

going to wanna do everything else.

787

00:36:51,659 --> 00:36:52,714

So I think I've found.

788

00:36:53,214 --> 00:36:54,714

Success without even knowing it.

789

00:36:54,714 --> 00:36:56,754

I guess with those

small, like six minutes.

790

00:36:56,754 --> 00:36:56,844

Mm-hmm.

791

00:36:56,844 --> 00:36:57,804

I can do six minutes.

792

00:36:57,804 --> 00:36:58,914

Like that's okay.

793

00:36:58,974 --> 00:37:03,284

Or we even teach it with exercise

where it's like, do one set of your

794

00:37:03,284 --> 00:37:04,844

workouts, see how you feel after that.

795

00:37:04,844 --> 00:37:07,844

And most of the time people can get

over that hump a little bit too.

796

00:37:07,844 --> 00:37:11,834

So, yeah, I think that's been

one of the keys, I guess to me,

797

00:37:11,834 --> 00:37:16,544

consistently improving my habit

formation and goal setting abilities

798

00:37:16,544 --> 00:37:20,294

Erin: it's so easy to fall into, you

know, trying to go after those big.

799

00:37:20,794 --> 00:37:22,654

Outcome goals or big behavior goals?

800

00:37:22,654 --> 00:37:26,454

I mean, even myself, when I started

writing the book I'm writing close to a

801

00:37:26,454 --> 00:37:30,534

year ago, uh, I was like, Tuesdays and

Thursdays are my best days to write.

802

00:37:30,544 --> 00:37:31,384

I work from home.

803

00:37:31,384 --> 00:37:34,024

I have more kind of free

quote unquote free time.

804

00:37:34,374 --> 00:37:36,924

I don't have to be face to face with

clients or in meetings and whatnot.

805

00:37:36,924 --> 00:37:39,984

And so I was like, I'm gonna write for

three hours every Tuesday and Thursday,

806

00:37:40,164 --> 00:37:43,554

and then, you know, the to-dos of

business and work would get in the way.

807

00:37:43,554 --> 00:37:46,224

And I just like, would end up

doing nothing over something.

808

00:37:46,284 --> 00:37:48,714

And so I was like, I need to

actually assess my behavior here.

809

00:37:49,104 --> 00:37:52,494

You know, so applied the, the

assessment that we use, um, you know,

810

00:37:52,494 --> 00:37:55,254

for all our coaches and everything

because, you know, I'm a, I'm a human.

811

00:37:55,464 --> 00:37:57,534

We're always a practitioner,

never a master.

812

00:37:57,534 --> 00:38:00,959

And so I realized that by

setting such a big goal.

813

00:38:01,259 --> 00:38:03,479

I was doing nothing instead.

814

00:38:03,749 --> 00:38:06,839

And so once I actually was like,

okay, 20 minutes a day, I can

815

00:38:06,839 --> 00:38:09,689

definitely even do 20 minutes on my

crazy Monday, Wednesday, Fridays.

816

00:38:09,879 --> 00:38:14,649

and then I actually found that

once I let myself do just 20

817

00:38:14,649 --> 00:38:17,439

minutes a day, I actually ended

up averaging two hours a day.

818

00:38:18,099 --> 00:38:18,819

It's crazy.

819

00:38:19,179 --> 00:38:19,899

That's wild.

820

00:38:20,049 --> 00:38:21,279

I was wondering, like

821

00:38:21,279 --> 00:38:25,319

Kelsy: with your book writing, I was

gonna ask like, what Parts of what you

822

00:38:25,319 --> 00:38:27,479

coach people on have you had to use.

823

00:38:27,479 --> 00:38:29,489

So it's interesting to

hear like, okay, hang on.

824

00:38:29,489 --> 00:38:33,019

I had to actually break it up and set

a more achievable goal for myself of 20

825

00:38:33,019 --> 00:38:35,209

minutes rather than the multiple hours.

826

00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:36,229

Yeah, a few days a week.

827

00:38:36,289 --> 00:38:38,479

Erin: Oh no, I definitely ended

up using it on myself, but

828

00:38:38,479 --> 00:38:39,649

it is, like I said, so easy.

829

00:38:39,649 --> 00:38:41,599

You have empathy for

yourself to fall into.

830

00:38:41,599 --> 00:38:44,479

Like, I know how to do this, I can

just do this, you know, do the thing.

831

00:38:44,849 --> 00:38:49,509

But yeah, I mean actually if, if you

read the book, Do two personal examples.

832

00:38:49,509 --> 00:38:52,269

I think in like chapter 10

or 11 of the book and I walk.

833

00:38:52,269 --> 00:38:55,749

One of them is writing the book and

how I actually assessed my behavior and

834

00:38:55,749 --> 00:38:59,169

tracked it throughout and which strategies

I used to get me to stick to it.

835

00:38:59,439 --> 00:39:02,319

And then like I said, I

collected hard data and I set

836

00:39:02,319 --> 00:39:03,699

the goal for 20 minutes a day.

837

00:39:03,699 --> 00:39:07,239

Once I kind of analyzed my behavior

and my environments and whatnot.

838

00:39:07,629 --> 00:39:08,559

And, um.

839

00:39:08,959 --> 00:39:12,739

I averaged just shy of two hours once I

actually like sat down to assess things

840

00:39:12,739 --> 00:39:16,519

and put the right strategies in place

to help me take action consistently.

841

00:39:16,699 --> 00:39:19,759

Kelsy: you are also the founder

of Habit Coach Professionals.

842

00:39:19,789 --> 00:39:19,879

Mm-hmm.

843

00:39:20,119 --> 00:39:22,279

And I'll say as a PT, one of the.

844

00:39:22,509 --> 00:39:26,319

Hardest things to get patients to

do is not telling them what to do,

845

00:39:26,319 --> 00:39:29,139

but actually getting them to put

in the behavior change to do it.

846

00:39:29,169 --> 00:39:29,259

Mm-hmm.

847

00:39:29,619 --> 00:39:32,559

So if any of you guys resonate with

that, or in the healthcare field,

848

00:39:32,559 --> 00:39:36,939

or nutrition or personal training or

dietetics coaching, or, I feel like every

849

00:39:37,029 --> 00:39:43,819

industry has some component of needing

to get behavior change in someone else.

850

00:39:44,029 --> 00:39:45,469

So I'll leave the link to.

851

00:39:46,004 --> 00:39:48,554

The Habit Coach Professionals website

and Air and below if you guys are

852

00:39:48,554 --> 00:39:51,224

interested in that certification and

like learning more because I feel like

853

00:39:51,224 --> 00:39:55,934

we are just touching the surface on all

that you guys cover in that program, but

854

00:39:55,934 --> 00:39:57,524

you also just finished writing a book.

855

00:39:57,604 --> 00:40:00,594

Talk a little bit about that too, all

that goes into that why you wanted

856

00:40:00,594 --> 00:40:04,584

to write a book and how it dives in a

little bit deeper, even for the everyday.

857

00:40:05,049 --> 00:40:05,949

Person like me.

858

00:40:06,449 --> 00:40:06,719

Erin: Yeah.

859

00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:09,089

So in order to talk about why

wrote the book, I'll kind of talk

860

00:40:09,089 --> 00:40:11,539

about why started Habit Coach

professionals in the first place.

861

00:40:11,539 --> 00:40:14,689

So, uh, I've been coaching since 2008.

862

00:40:14,779 --> 00:40:17,959

Um, and I started out in just fitness

and then it was fitness and nutrition.

863

00:40:17,959 --> 00:40:22,309

And then basically those two realized

that, okay, like I still can't really help

864

00:40:22,369 --> 00:40:26,459

someone live a fully healthy, happy life,

Fitness solved one problem, nutrition

865

00:40:26,459 --> 00:40:27,659

solved a little bit more of a problem.

866

00:40:27,659 --> 00:40:31,109

So then I started sleep and recovery,

motivation and mindset, how our

867

00:40:31,109 --> 00:40:33,359

workplaces and home spaces are designed.

868

00:40:33,609 --> 00:40:38,379

But I kept running into one problem,

which is no matter what I teach my

869

00:40:38,379 --> 00:40:41,589

clients, whatever knowledge you give

them skills you help them develop.

870

00:40:42,044 --> 00:40:44,834

I could never figure out how get

them to do the thing, whatever the

871

00:40:44,834 --> 00:40:48,554

thing is, you know, move more, eat

better, sleep better, pray more,

872

00:40:48,554 --> 00:40:49,934

meditate more, whatever it might be.

873

00:40:50,234 --> 00:40:51,554

When I'm not there with

them, they're great.

874

00:40:51,554 --> 00:40:53,414

When we're in session, you know,

if you're lucky, that's maybe

875

00:40:53,414 --> 00:40:54,704

three hours a week with the client.

876

00:40:54,704 --> 00:40:55,304

If you're lucky.

877

00:40:55,304 --> 00:40:57,794

Most people would probably get about

an hour or half hour with their

878

00:40:57,794 --> 00:40:59,474

clients, a week in person or online.

879

00:40:59,814 --> 00:41:01,404

But yeah, they have 160 something hours.

880

00:41:01,664 --> 00:41:02,624

To do what they want.

881

00:41:02,624 --> 00:41:05,054

And that's a lot of time to kind

of mess up all the good stuff

882

00:41:05,054 --> 00:41:07,304

that we did in our one, two, or

three hours worth of sessions.

883

00:41:07,634 --> 00:41:10,544

And so it was really frustrating because

I really did want to help people change.

884

00:41:10,594 --> 00:41:15,134

and so, once I finished graduate school,

you know, I was still kind of hungry for

885

00:41:15,134 --> 00:41:16,664

more to try to figure out this problem.

886

00:41:16,664 --> 00:41:19,634

And so I would say actually in

graduate school I started to

887

00:41:19,634 --> 00:41:20,954

discover behavioral science.

888

00:41:20,984 --> 00:41:22,334

Um, it's not my formal background.

889

00:41:22,334 --> 00:41:25,154

I started exercise physiology, but

realized that it doesn't matter how

890

00:41:25,154 --> 00:41:28,374

much you know about the body, if

you can't get people to, behave in

891

00:41:28,374 --> 00:41:29,604

a way that's productive for them.

892

00:41:30,304 --> 00:41:32,494

so started to come across behavioral

science and studying it just on

893

00:41:32,494 --> 00:41:33,964

my own, not in graduate school.

894

00:41:34,264 --> 00:41:37,354

Um, and eventually connected with

my business partner who does have

895

00:41:37,354 --> 00:41:38,674

a behavioral science background.

896

00:41:39,004 --> 00:41:41,674

Um, but the reason I connected with

him is I realize that behavioral

897

00:41:41,674 --> 00:41:43,384

science actually solves this problem.

898

00:41:43,594 --> 00:41:46,624

It teaches us how we make decisions,

what makes behaviors happen?

899

00:41:46,654 --> 00:41:49,564

How behaviors turn into habits, and

how our various environments, whether

900

00:41:49,564 --> 00:41:53,134

that's built home, workspace, third

space, social, friends, family,

901

00:41:53,134 --> 00:41:56,374

coworkers, mental, what's going

on in our head, digital, all of

902

00:41:56,374 --> 00:42:00,664

our devices, how those impact the

behaviors or the choices we make?

903

00:42:00,664 --> 00:42:01,999

Behaviors we do in habits we form.

904

00:42:02,249 --> 00:42:06,149

and that was not being taught to coaches

at least directly in our continuing

905

00:42:06,149 --> 00:42:10,349

education opportunities other than maybe

like trans theoretical model of change

906

00:42:10,349 --> 00:42:13,199

or motivational interviewing, all of

which are great, all of which we need

907

00:42:13,199 --> 00:42:16,859

to know, but they don't teach us how

to actually get our clients to do the

908

00:42:16,859 --> 00:42:18,299

dang thing when we aren't with them.

909

00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:22,199

Um, and behavioral science does once

you understand it and know how to assess

910

00:42:22,199 --> 00:42:24,019

behavior in people's environments.

911

00:42:24,439 --> 00:42:26,239

So that wasn't in.

912

00:42:26,294 --> 00:42:27,464

Kind of the coaching space.

913

00:42:27,464 --> 00:42:30,824

And I thought, well, I can teach my

clients this directly, but if I teach

914

00:42:30,824 --> 00:42:36,314

my clients, I help one client at a time,

which is great, but if I teach a coach who

915

00:42:36,314 --> 00:42:40,514

has 20 clients, then I'm helping 21 people

at a time, the coach and their 20 clients.

916

00:42:40,724 --> 00:42:44,474

And so I kind of wanted to scale what

I've been learning, but I also needed a

917

00:42:44,474 --> 00:42:48,314

more kind of like formal background, um,

in the network of behavioral science.

918

00:42:48,314 --> 00:42:51,654

And so that's why I ended up partnering,

with my business partner, Samuel Alser.

919

00:42:52,154 --> 00:42:56,324

And so he's, you know, has behavioral

science training and together we built

920

00:42:56,324 --> 00:42:59,994

a 10 week cohort based mentorship

and certification for coaches.

921

00:43:00,294 --> 00:43:03,174

Um, teaching them behavioral science

and how to actually assess behavior

922

00:43:03,174 --> 00:43:06,354

and help people form habits and do the

thing, whatever the thing is when you

923

00:43:06,354 --> 00:43:07,614

know the coach isn't by their side.

924

00:43:08,174 --> 00:43:10,124

So I've done that for almost seven years.

925

00:43:10,394 --> 00:43:14,014

Um, we've served coaches in,

I think 25 countries now in 25

926

00:43:14,014 --> 00:43:17,284

states, which is mind blowing to

me, um, without any paid marketing.

927

00:43:17,284 --> 00:43:20,194

Somehow the world is crazy and so

having done that, you know, we've.

928

00:43:20,454 --> 00:43:23,484

Really refined our process and our

program and it's done really well.

929

00:43:23,484 --> 00:43:26,574

But then I've come kind of

full circle back in that, okay,

930

00:43:26,574 --> 00:43:28,104

one, not everybody is a coach.

931

00:43:28,104 --> 00:43:29,334

Not everybody can hire a coach.

932

00:43:29,334 --> 00:43:31,104

It's a privilege to hire a coach.

933

00:43:31,314 --> 00:43:34,854

It's a privilege to enroll in a

thousand plus certification program.

934

00:43:34,854 --> 00:43:37,304

And so I hate that we're not

intentionally, but you know.

935

00:43:37,739 --> 00:43:40,859

What we're teaching is hidden behind

a thousand plus dollar paywall.

936

00:43:41,019 --> 00:43:42,069

And it's a great program.

937

00:43:42,069 --> 00:43:44,139

It should probably cost more

than that from what I'm told.

938

00:43:44,359 --> 00:43:46,759

But still that's a high

investment for a lot of people.

939

00:43:46,789 --> 00:43:49,729

Um, and also a lot of people

can't hire coaches, so I wanted

940

00:43:49,729 --> 00:43:51,469

to make what we teach available.

941

00:43:51,594 --> 00:43:56,274

To the lay population to everybody so

that anybody if they want to, can start

942

00:43:56,274 --> 00:43:58,344

to coach themselves towards better habits.

943

00:43:58,344 --> 00:43:59,484

And so that's where the book comes in.

944

00:43:59,484 --> 00:44:00,774

The book is called Do The Thing.

945

00:44:00,824 --> 00:44:02,384

it came from what I told

you at the beginning.

946

00:44:02,384 --> 00:44:05,324

It's like, how do I get my clients

to do the thing or myself at times

947

00:44:05,324 --> 00:44:07,514

to do the thing, you know, like the

writing habit I was trying to work at.

948

00:44:07,824 --> 00:44:10,074

So that'll be, that'll be

out hopefully in March.

949

00:44:10,224 --> 00:44:12,954

I'll say that on, on the air,

um, hopefully late March.

950

00:44:12,984 --> 00:44:14,724

Um, but definitely in 2026 here.

951

00:44:14,974 --> 00:44:18,514

so that anybody can use behavioral science

to coach themselves towards better habits,

952

00:44:18,514 --> 00:44:22,054

even when, you know, life is messy and

chaotic and maybe you don't have the

953

00:44:22,054 --> 00:44:23,254

motivation to do what you wanna do.

954

00:44:23,404 --> 00:44:24,214

That's wonderful.

955

00:44:24,214 --> 00:44:24,544

Kelsy: I love it.

956

00:44:24,544 --> 00:44:28,354

You also mentioned a launch program

or an ambassador program of some sort.

957

00:44:28,404 --> 00:44:28,979

Erin: Yeah, so a little bit.

958

00:44:29,489 --> 00:44:33,839

Being that the book is coming out pretty

soon, we're building a launch team for it.

959

00:44:33,839 --> 00:44:36,629

The goal is to get to 500 I'm

at, just so I have 200 right now.

960

00:44:36,629 --> 00:44:41,069

So over this next month or so, really

going to have to build that up.

961

00:44:41,309 --> 00:44:44,279

Um, and so if you join the

Launch team, it's free to join.

962

00:44:44,279 --> 00:44:45,569

It takes one minute to join.

963

00:44:45,569 --> 00:44:48,959

You just have to put your name, email in

what tier you'd like to enroll at, but if

964

00:44:48,959 --> 00:44:52,949

you join, you'll get first access to the

book and a free digital copy of the book,

965

00:44:53,129 --> 00:44:55,799

um, in exchange for a small commitment.

966

00:44:55,799 --> 00:44:57,149

And there are three tiers of commitments.

967

00:44:57,149 --> 00:44:58,054

So tier one.

968

00:44:58,439 --> 00:45:01,559

You agree to buy some form of

the book, obviously the ebook

969

00:45:01,559 --> 00:45:02,669

will be the cheapest version.

970

00:45:02,889 --> 00:45:05,649

you agree to leave a review and

you agree to share about it with

971

00:45:05,649 --> 00:45:08,919

your friends, family, coworkers,

whether that be online or in person.

972

00:45:09,169 --> 00:45:12,409

tier two, you're pre-comm committing to

buying the book and leaving a review.

973

00:45:12,649 --> 00:45:14,869

And tier three, you're pre-com

committing to buying a book.

974

00:45:15,574 --> 00:45:16,024

Kelsy: I love it.

975

00:45:16,054 --> 00:45:18,454

I will leave that link below

if you guys are interested, I

976

00:45:18,454 --> 00:45:19,444

will definitely be signing up.

977

00:45:19,444 --> 00:45:21,904

Like I said, with the Atomic

Habits, I think that book I

978

00:45:21,904 --> 00:45:22,834

need to read year after year.

979

00:45:22,834 --> 00:45:26,644

And I have a feeling your book, I will

have to be reading year after year

980

00:45:26,644 --> 00:45:30,034

and even listening to this episode

year after year and maybe even, you

981

00:45:30,034 --> 00:45:33,564

know, every half year be like, okay,

let me regroup and, and understand.

982

00:45:33,564 --> 00:45:37,104

'cause for me It helps me to understand

the science behind these sorts

983

00:45:37,104 --> 00:45:40,494

of things, to actually like, make

it stick in my brain a little bit

984

00:45:40,494 --> 00:45:43,164

and, and help motivate me towards

certain things that I'm trying to do.

985

00:45:43,164 --> 00:45:47,274

So I think when it comes to different

resources that you have out there,

986

00:45:47,274 --> 00:45:48,774

you have tons on the website too.

987

00:45:48,774 --> 00:45:52,674

So I'll leave the link to the Habit

Coach Professionals website below too.

988

00:45:52,674 --> 00:45:52,974

But.

989

00:45:53,544 --> 00:45:58,494

I think anytime I can remind myself

the importance of taking a step back

990

00:45:58,494 --> 00:46:01,584

and analyzing certain situations in my

environment and certain activators and

991

00:46:01,824 --> 00:46:05,574

just my routines as a whole to see what

is actually pushing me towards certain

992

00:46:05,574 --> 00:46:08,874

goals that I want and what is retracting

me from certain goals that I want.

993

00:46:09,054 --> 00:46:11,384

I think Any time I can

do that is super helpful.

994

00:46:11,744 --> 00:46:13,964

Erin: Yeah, and I'll say Atomic

Habits is a really great book.

995

00:46:13,964 --> 00:46:15,074

It's the top one I recommend.

996

00:46:15,074 --> 00:46:18,014

The second other one I probably recommend

is Good Habits, bad Habits by Wendy Wood.

997

00:46:18,014 --> 00:46:19,454

She's a researcher in California.

998

00:46:19,884 --> 00:46:22,874

the reason I also wrote this book, other

than, having done the certification and

999

00:46:22,874 --> 00:46:27,414

wanting to make that available to, the

population at large is that I felt like

1000

00:46:27,414 --> 00:46:30,904

whenever I'd gifted a tell my habits to

a variety of friends and family workers,

1001

00:46:30,904 --> 00:46:32,104

coaches, when they'd read the book,

1002

00:46:32,344 --> 00:46:35,344

They're great books, you should read

them, but you'd get this grab bag of

1003

00:46:35,344 --> 00:46:37,414

strategies that you're kind of left with.

1004

00:46:37,414 --> 00:46:40,744

Like, okay, let me grab some spaghetti,

throw it the wall and see if it sticks.

1005

00:46:40,954 --> 00:46:42,694

But you never really

know if what you grabbed.

1006

00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:44,489

Was the right strategy in the first place.

1007

00:46:44,489 --> 00:46:46,229

You're just crossing your

fingers that this works.

1008

00:46:46,229 --> 00:46:51,519

And so one of the reasons I wrote do the

thing is so that you actually have an

1009

00:46:51,519 --> 00:46:56,439

assessment process to figure out why is

what I want to do not happening or what

1010

00:46:56,439 --> 00:47:00,009

I don't want to do still happening so

that I can then use whatever I learned

1011

00:47:00,009 --> 00:47:03,189

from a topic habits or good habits, bad

habits or tiny habits to pick the right

1012

00:47:03,189 --> 00:47:07,309

strategy based on how I've assessed, where

things fall through in the habit loop.

1013

00:47:07,443 --> 00:47:10,653

So that I'm actually efficient and

effective in creating behavior change

1014

00:47:10,653 --> 00:47:14,313

and achieving my goals rather than

just like trying for, you know, two or

1015

00:47:14,313 --> 00:47:17,823

three weeks or six weeks and failing

and, you know, giving up or going

1016

00:47:17,823 --> 00:47:20,673

after the next shiny object instead

of actually sticking to it and find

1017

00:47:20,673 --> 00:47:21,813

something that works for the long haul.

1018

00:47:22,083 --> 00:47:25,323

Kelsy: So it's the information,

the education part, and then yours

1019

00:47:25,323 --> 00:47:26,313

comes in with the application.

1020

00:47:26,313 --> 00:47:26,403

Mm-hmm.

1021

00:47:26,643 --> 00:47:29,973

And like how to actually apply

some of the behavior, change

1022

00:47:29,973 --> 00:47:31,443

science to your own life too.

1023

00:47:31,473 --> 00:47:31,953

I love that.

1024

00:47:31,953 --> 00:47:32,193

Exactly.

1025

00:47:32,253 --> 00:47:33,603

There's a trend right now on.

1026

00:47:33,643 --> 00:47:35,713

TikTok called like the learning

curriculum and building out

1027

00:47:35,713 --> 00:47:36,703

your own learning curriculum.

1028

00:47:36,703 --> 00:47:38,558

So I'm like picturing if people have.

1029

00:47:39,263 --> 00:47:41,153

This desire to learn more

about behavior change.

1030

00:47:41,153 --> 00:47:43,523

They can combine all of these things

and be like, okay, I'm gonna do

1031

00:47:43,523 --> 00:47:47,123

Atomic Habits, and then Wendy Woods

book, and then be like, okay, how

1032

00:47:47,123 --> 00:47:48,263

can I apply all of that to my life?

1033

00:47:48,263 --> 00:47:50,603

Like a nice little learning

curriculum on behavior change.

1034

00:47:50,633 --> 00:47:51,053

Erin: I wouldn't know.

1035

00:47:51,053 --> 00:47:53,953

I don't have a TikTok and never

will get one, but I'm glad,

1036

00:47:53,953 --> 00:47:54,973

Hey, that sounds productive.

1037

00:47:55,123 --> 00:47:55,663

Kelsy: It's awesome.

1038

00:47:55,663 --> 00:47:59,238

it's fun to learn new things outside

of the classroom when you're an adult.

1039

00:47:59,238 --> 00:47:59,328

Mm-hmm.

1040

00:47:59,568 --> 00:48:00,198

That's what it is.

1041

00:48:00,198 --> 00:48:02,718

It's like building your own

curriculum outside to like.

1042

00:48:03,148 --> 00:48:05,368

Continue that growth mindset and

that learning throughout life.

1043

00:48:05,368 --> 00:48:06,598

I love that, which is super fun.

1044

00:48:06,598 --> 00:48:08,878

So thank you so much for coming on.

1045

00:48:08,878 --> 00:48:09,838

I know I learned a lot.

1046

00:48:09,838 --> 00:48:11,808

Again, I'm gonna have to come back

and listen to this episode and I'll

1047

00:48:11,808 --> 00:48:15,138

leave all of the links below that

we mentioned during the episode.

1048

00:48:15,138 --> 00:48:16,938

But I hope you guys

learned a lot from Erin.

1049

00:48:17,148 --> 00:48:20,958

I'm very grateful for her for coming

on and sharing all of this because it

1050

00:48:21,678 --> 00:48:25,338

is just so much deeper than what we

think when it comes to habit formation,

1051

00:48:25,388 --> 00:48:27,338

And goal setting in general, and

especially with the New Year.

1052

00:48:27,338 --> 00:48:28,538

So I'm very, very grateful.

1053

00:48:28,658 --> 00:48:29,408

I'm grateful for you.

1054

00:48:29,408 --> 00:48:30,038

Thank you so much.

1055

00:48:30,038 --> 00:48:30,518

Of course.

1056

00:48:30,518 --> 00:48:33,728

I hope you guys learned a lot and

enjoyed this episode, and I'll

1057

00:48:33,728 --> 00:48:36,038

see you guys again on the next

episode of Wellness Fixes the Pod.