Why do New Year goals fail — even when motivation is high? In this Goalchella finale, we dive into the neuroscience of habit formation with expert Erin to unpack what actually happens in the brain when we try to build new habits or break old ones.

We explore why motivation fades, how discipline is built, and whether forming a new habit is harder than breaking an existing one. This episode breaks down intrinsic vs. extrinsic motivation, the role of rewards, and how your environment — including social settings like alcohol-centered events — can either support or sabotage your goals.

If you’ve ever set vague goals like “be less stressed” or “be more mindful” and felt stuck, we explain why unclear goals are harder for the brain to execute — and how to make habits more achievable, sustainable, and measurable in 2026.

We also talk about Erin’s upcoming book, how she used the science of habit formation to support her own discipline during the writing process, and her certification for professionals who want to create meaningful behavior change.

This episode perfectly wraps up the Goalchella podcast festival and gives you the tools to turn inspiration into lasting change — whether you’re working on your own habits or helping others do the same.

Links/Research Articles:

​​https://www.erinlaverone.com/

https://www.habitcoachpro.com/

Book: Do The Thing: A Science Backed Process To Help You Take Action Even When Motivation Fails and Life Gets Messy (Coming so soon!!!!)

Book Launch Ambassador: (I signed up for Tier 1!) https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfqtzVsstm6l6BKUOpvGrBDtlAVFuIbBFlqHHETR5FzOj7L6A/viewform?pli=1

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Mentioned in this episode:

Join us Backstage @ Goalchella! https://drkelsyvickdpt.substack.com/s/backstage-at-goalchella?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

If you've ever felt like you know what to do for your health but

2

can't seem to make it stick, then today's

conversation is exactly what you need.

3

Our guest began her career as an exercise

physiologist and personal trainer,

4

and has spent 17 plus years in the

health and fitness industry working

5

both as a university level educator

and mentor, and as a coach helping

6

clients with nutrition and fitness.

7

Over time, she noticed something critical.

8

People don't just need better

workouts or nutrition plans.

9

They need better systems, behaviors, and

mindsets to support long-term change.

10

For the past nearly seven years, she's

focused her work on the science of habit

11

formation and behavior change, helping

individuals and other professionals

12

build the systems that actually

make healthy habits sustainable.

13

She's the co-founder of the Habit

Coach Professionals and the author of

14

Do The Thing, a Science-Backed Process

to help you take action even when

15

motivation fails and life gets messy.

16

In today's episode, we're diving into how

habits are really built, why willpower

17

isn't the answer, and how to create

systems that support your goals long-term.

18

Aaron, welcome to Wellness Fixes the pod.

19

Kelsy: So it's early 2026, and I feel

like a lot of people are starting to

20

hit that point where they're realizing

21

and the habits that they wanted to form.

22

Are going to take a little bit

more effort than what they thought.

23

It's a little harder to

be consistent with them.

24

We've all stopped riding that sort of

New Year's new wave hype motivation.

25

The whole world's creating goals.

26

It's very motivating, and now we're

starting to settle in and realize it

27

might take a little bit more effort.

28

Mm-hmm.

29

So let's start with the science

behind actually forming goals.

30

What sort of systems are there to

actually form certain habits and goals

31

and make them a part of our routine?

32

Well into December, 2026, not just.

33

Here in the beginning of 2026.

34

Erin: Sure.

35

Yeah.

36

So I think there's a little bit

of a difference between like

37

goals and maybe our habits.

38

, But perhaps there shouldn't be.

39

As I'll explain.

40

So oftentimes people, there

are three levels of goals.

41

, If you've ever read Atomic Habits

by James Claire, he's talked about

42

this, but there are outcome goals,

there are process goals, and then

43

there are identity based goals.

44

, So most people, especially with their

New Year's resolution, set outcome goals.

45

I wanna lose 25 pounds by X date.

46

I wanna meditate more.

47

I wanna.

48

Feel better.

49

They're kind of like these long

things that are out, , not very much

50

definition around them, and therefore

we don't have much control over them.

51

Now, process goals are, , the next step.

52

That's really good.

53

Those are the actions that

are gonna actually get us to

54

those outcomes that we want.

55

So maybe I'm actually in

the gym for 20 minutes.

56

Doing strength training three times

a week, or I'm reading 10 minutes

57

every morning if I wanna be a better

reader or writing whatever those

58

goals might be, meditating, whatnot.

59

And then there's the identity goals.

60

It's like, who do I want to be?

61

What is an innately feels

like me and the values I have?

62

And how I wanna live out my life.

63

So digging deeper from that just outcome

based goal that most of us set into those

64

process and then even identity goals

are gonna help us stick longer, , when

65

it comes into habits and the behaviors

for those behavior based goals.

66

I.

67

Behavior's very complex.

68

Most people don't realize it, but

it's not just like, I wanna do this

69

thing, so I'm gonna do this thing.

70

There are a variety of things that

go into how we make decisions, and

71

then what makes behaviors happen,

and then how does a behavior actually

72

get repeated and turned into a habit.

73

, So if we are looking to build better

habits, we need to look into things

74

like what is activating our habits?

75

So both internally, so things

like thoughts, feelings, emotions,

76

sensations, and externally, all of the

dings and pings in our environment.

77

Smells.

78

You know, if you always drive by

a drive through and you always

79

smell the burger and fries, are

you activated to go get fast food?

80

Um, the people you see in your

environment, friends, family, coworkers

81

. At home, at work wherever you

might be in your third space.

82

And then just what's

around your home space.

83

You know, do you have healthy food sitting

out or is it junk food sitting out?

84

Do you have things that are gonna

encourage you to be active or sit around?

85

Do you have things that

are gonna encourage you to

86

read, to meditate, to write?

87

To be a good partner or a friend.

88

Um, so those things in our

environment are super important

89

to triggering the behaviors we do.

90

We think we have free will, but

oftentimes it's these things in our

91

environment within us and around us

that are triggering us to do things.

92

So we need to take note of those things.

93

, We also need to have the ability to

do the behavior which people think.

94

You know, of course I can write

every day, or of course I can eat

95

healthy, like I have the ability.

96

But there are so many things that go

into ability, , the knowledge to do

97

it, the skills to do it, the resources

to be able to do it, but also our own

98

perceived ability and self-efficacy.

99

, So do we have the confidence that we can

do this not just on like day one, when

100

we're like super motivated in gung-ho, but

on our worst possible day when like, shit

101

has hit the fan and you know everything's

going wrong and I still need to be able

102

to take action and build this identity

that I want to have through my actions.

103

I think the most overlooked one is we

need to have a rewarding experience.

104

People often forget about this, but we

are wired for immediate gratification

105

that is millennia of evolution.

106

Nudging us in the direction of

going towards whatever is gratifying

107

immediately, and rewarding

immediately, and enjoyable immediately.

108

And if we fight that, we're literally just

beating our head against the brick wall.

109

So instead of fighting it,

why don't we work with it?

110

So a lot of times the things that

are valuable to us and the changes

111

we want to make, they're hard to do.

112

They're unpleasant to do.

113

And so how do we make those

more enjoyable and easier to do?

114

Then we just have to

have our environments.

115

set up so that we can consistently

repeat the things we want to do.

116

Or set up so we don't consistently

repeat the things we don't want to do.

117

And that's just, you know, a

summary and it gets very, very

118

complex when you actually start

to assess those things and dig in.

119

But that's what I would take note

as far as like building a habit.

120

And then the goals we set should be

more focused towards those behavior

121

based goals and identity based goals

as opposed to our outcome-based goals.

122

Kelsy: I think a lot of us

struggle the most, like you said,

123

with those outcome-based goals.

124

We set them.

125

For, I want this result, but we

don't think backwards of the process.

126

Or the identity change

that needs to happen.

127

Erin: Mm-hmm.

128

I've

129

Kelsy: mentioned this before, but

the book Atomic Habits was one

130

that I rebelled against for a while

because so many people talk about it.

131

So many people read it.

132

It just seemed so trendy.

133

And I was like.

134

How good can it really be?

135

Mm-hmm.

136

And I read it for the

first time last January.

137

I was like, fine, my goal is to read

all of the boring self-help business

138

books that everyone recommends.

139

And I finally read it

and I was like, oh, okay.

140

I get this.

141

This needs to be, a yearly read for

me to come back to, because as soon

142

as he mentioned shifting from outcome

goals and reaching this outcome to

143

like making it a part of my identity,

not, I'm trying to quit smoking.

144

I am not a smoker.

145

Mm-hmm.

146

Changing that.

147

I started to try and apply that to

my own life and it was a big sort of

148

switch for me personally, but also.

149

Clinically where people are trying

to function in a certain way.

150

, I'm trying to make my knee pain better,

or no, I am a person who puts in the

151

work to make my knee pain better.

152

Or whatever it is.

153

So I rebelled against that book,

regrettably, for a long time,

154

and it really did help to shift

that mindset when it came to.

155

Goal setting and actually realizing

why is it harder for us to stick

156

to some goals compared to others.

157

So you also mentioned environment too.

158

Mm-hmm.

159

And I think me personally, one of

my goals for the new year is to

160

be more purposeful daily with my

prayer time and my spiritual time.

161

Mm-hmm.

162

And I realized that in the

beginning of the year, I.

163

Was super consistent about creating

that environment around me that allowed

164

me to be successful in that goal.

165

Mm-hmm.

166

And now it's sort of fallen off a

little bit where I'm not going to

167

bed as early to be able to set that

environment, I forget oftentimes.

168

Mm-hmm.

169

I also feel like what goes into

environment is the accountability and

170

the people that you have around you.

171

Mm-hmm.

172

That either Foster and I love

the way that you said activate.

173

That environment activates mm-hmm.

174

You to form that routine or that habit

versus maybe pulls you away from that.

175

So speak a little bit more on that

environment component and also

176

how the people you have around

you influence your ability to make

177

that habit part of your routine.

178

Erin: Yeah.

179

So our environment is always

activating us to do certain things.

180

So if we can become aware.

181

Of what is in our environment.

182

We can then either harness the productive

activators or we can figure out how to

183

get rid of kind of negative activators

that are either like distracting us or

184

pulling us away from what we wanna do.

185

Or we can set up intentional activators,

which you said you were forgetting.

186

So we might need to set up intentional

activators to do the thing we want to do.

187

Um, so perhaps like, I like to meal

prep every weekend, and so I've

188

already gone grocery shopping usually.

189

Earlier in the weekend and that stuff is

just sitting out ready for me to prep.

190

So it's kind of calling my

name when I open the fridge.

191

Okay.

192

You know, the stuff's sitting around raw.

193

You need to prep me now so

you can actually eat it.

194

Otherwise, I'm just gonna

sit here all week unedible.

195

Right?

196

Um, but perhaps if I had a bunch of

desserts or something sitting around

197

that could be calling my name too and

pulling me away from that healthy meal

198

prep and eating things in aren't good.

199

On the contrary, if I didn't

have any of those in there.

200

I need to set up activators to get me to

do that healthy meal prep If you want to.

201

Work on your spiritual practice

in prayer every morning, and

202

you said you're forgetting.

203

I'm curious, like what were you

doing to get you to remind you

204

to do that in the first place?

205

Were you just like, literally

like willing yourself to remember?

206

'Cause perhaps we could set up things

like alarms or little sticky notes

207

wherever you do your prayer thing or

if you have things that you utilize.

208

In prayer.

209

I don't know what kind of religion

you're, but like my grandma

210

used to always use a rosary.

211

Perhaps you're, you know, if that's

the thing, you put rosary beads down

212

somewhere, in your visual field so

that you can have that as a reminder.

213

Or you did mention social environment.

214

If your partner is spiritual as

well, perhaps, you know, either

215

they join you or you have a

conversation with them to encourage

216

you that during this time, you know.

217

This is what I want to be doing.

218

But yes, anything in our

environment can be a trigger.

219

So it's really important for us to bring

awareness to those triggers that are

220

present, that are both productive and

negative, and ones that we might need to

221

intentionally bring in to encourage us and

nudge us to do those things we want to do.

222

Kelsy: how do you help people

and coach people to start

223

reflecting on those things?

224

Because some of the time it's like

you don't, you probably walk around

225

in your environment every day, not

even realizing what's an activator,

226

pulling you towards something or

pulling you towards another option.

227

So how do you recommend people start

to like, reflect, or even journal?

228

Is it a journaling exercise?

229

Is it something like

that where people can.

230

Start to think, okay, if this is something

I want to make as part of my routine

231

or something that I wanna break as part

of my routine, how do you recommend

232

people going about their environment

and analyzing it almost from this like

233

outsider's perspective on what's drawing

me towards this routine that I wanna build

234

and what's drawing me away from that?

235

Mm-hmm.

236

Erin: I think there's two

ways you can go about it.

237

One is to.

238

Intentionally audit, particularly

your home space, but potentially

239

workspace or third space as well.

240

And just noticing, you know, what you

have set up and how your space is set up.

241

But I think probably the easiest

way is to try to be aware of.

242

Especially if it's a bad habit

when you're doing the thing, like

243

try to catch yourself in the act.

244

Um, and obviously, you know, for

those that are listening to this,

245

they might be more cognizant now.

246

And then I'm a coach, so I literally

have these conversations with my clients,

247

but trying to catch yourself in the act.

248

So if I'm suddenly scrolling social

media and doing work, see if you can

249

catch yourself doing that and then

notice especially for bad habits,

250

there's often a lot of internal triggers.

251

So like if we're scrolling

social media, what's going on?

252

Am I bored?

253

Am I stressed?

254

Am I tired?

255

Do I feel like I'm doing

meaningless menial work?

256

What is causing me to stray from, you know

what, I should be doing productive work,

257

and instead I'm scrolling social media.

258

and then why was it so easy to default

to that, that I literally, you know,

259

I've got my phone right here, so

did I have my phone in the pocket?

260

Am I logged into those apps?

261

You know, is it really easy to

mindlessly get lost in them?

262

this is something that

I've personally done.

263

Like I don't have any

social media on my phone.

264

and I mostly only use it for work

related purposes most of the time.

265

And so if I need to go on it, I literally

have to download the app because the,

266

I won't use it on my computer 'cause

their interface is on the computer.

267

So annoying.

268

Um, so I have to download the app.

269

I have to re-log into the app, so I

have to make two conscious choices.

270

To that, this is what I want to do.

271

Um, and I try to limit my time.

272

So I also time block, like I'm

gonna spend 30 minutes to do a

273

social media post on X today.

274

And sometimes I'll intentionally

go on for fun as well.

275

But same thing, like I have

to download and log in the

276

app, so I have to choose like.

277

This is how I want to be

entertained right now.

278

I'm not just mindlessly getting lost

in hours of scrolling, or I'm sure you

279

know, many ladies are familiar with this,

where you like, go pee on the toilet

280

and then all of a sudden 15 minutes have

gone by because, you know, Instagram

281

or whatever's right there and you're

like, what the hell just happened?

282

Like, I just totally got hijacked.

283

Um, so catching yourself in the moment.

284

And it's hard to do at first.

285

Like it's easier said than done.

286

there's a strategy called urge surfing,

which is like, okay I'm stressed,

287

I'm tired, I want to scroll social

media, I wanna go mindlessly eat

288

because it's enjoyable and rewarding

triggers that dopamine cascade.

289

And so, you know, maybe the first

time you notice this, you just

290

notice it and you're like, screw it.

291

I'm just gonna do it.

292

And then hopefully the next time

you do it, you notice it and

293

you're like, oh, I'm just gonna.

294

Sit here and like, think a little bit

more about like, what am I feeling?

295

Why am I doing this?

296

Do I wanna do this?

297

If I want to do it, that's fine.

298

Like, if I intentionally

want to give in, cool.

299

There's nothing wrong with that.

300

Um, it's more about like the

unintentional, mindless that's distracting

301

us from what we really wanna do that

we're, we're trying to kind of get ahold

302

of and bring our conscious self too.

303

And then over time, hopefully just

become more and more aware of,

304

okay, this is why I'm doing this and

this is the problem that, you know.

305

The unproductive behavior is solving,

whether that's scrolling social media or

306

mindless eating or whatever it might be.

307

With a bad habit, there's always

like two extra steps that come

308

into play compared to a good habit.

309

And that's that.

310

Like, if we need to remove a bad habit,

and I really don't like to call 'em bad

311

habits because they're solving a problem.

312

Um, but I need to understand

what problem it's solving first.

313

And I can't just take it away

because then there's a void.

314

And you know, we don't

like voids by nature.

315

Physics doesn't like voids,

so we have to fill that void

316

with a more productive habit.

317

Oftentimes those productive habits aren't

as enjoyable, as easy, as obvious to do.

318

So we need to use strategies to try to

fill that with a productive habit and

319

make it easy, just as easy, just as

obvious, just as enjoyable to do it.

320

Kelsy: I like that you said creating

two barriers, for social media.

321

Mm-hmm.

322

Like you said, like you

have to think about it.

323

Okay, this is what I wanna do.

324

Download the app and that.

325

I guess double step.

326

Mm-hmm.

327

Automatically requires

reflection a little bit.

328

Mm-hmm.

329

Where if we struggle with understanding

what our activators are in our environment

330

for this habit or intrinsically, I like

that you mentioned that too, because.

331

Doom.

332

Scrolling on social media, I feel like

is more intrinsic and like you said,

333

there's easy access to your phone.

334

Mm-hmm.

335

You might not even think about it,

but I was thinking more reflecting and

336

journaling, but I like how you said, like,

catch yourself in the act or have someone

337

else around you, I guess, possibly.

338

Mm-hmm.

339

Like a, your partner or roommate

that sees you doing something like,

340

Hey, remember you said, I don't

know if that's even an effective

341

way to, to do that too, but, mm-hmm.

342

I didn't even think about trying

to like catch myself in the act

343

Erin: and like when you are

catching yourself in the act,

344

it is helpful to take notes.

345

So especially when I'm helping someone,

you know, build a habit whether, that's

346

breaking one or actually putting a new

one in like as they do the behavior

347

or disengage from the behavior.

348

I do have them often jot down just

some simple notes in like their

349

phone notes or whatever it might be.

350

Might not use the phone notes if

we're trying to get off the phone,

351

but an actual journal or whatnot.

352

But, um.

353

Yeah, it's very helpful so that you can

look back and actually look at hard data.

354

Both like objective data, whether

that's you know, I found myself doing

355

scrolling for five minutes before I

caught myself or subjective data like.

356

I realize that it was like very

engaging and pleasurable, but now

357

I realize I'm behind on my project,

and so I'm feeling X, y, Z now.

358

Um, so both that subjective and

objective data is super helpful for

359

making decisions of how you like, move

forward with, I like to call it your

360

experiment towards behavior change.

361

It's not just a linear thing.

362

and the more data you have,

The more efficient you'll

363

be in making those changes.

364

rather than kind of like

spiraling around and chasing

365

one shiny object after another.

366

Kelsy: I like the language

you used with it saying, like

367

you said earlier, bad habit.

368

I meant to mention this.

369

Mm-hmm.

370

But not a bad habit, but like you

said, realizing it's maybe not

371

the habit that I wanna be for.

372

And feeling it was something else.

373

'cause I think a lot of the times with

habit formation, with New Year's goals,

374

we can get so down on ourselves For

not successfully accomplishing them or.

375

oh, I reverted to this bad

habit that I wanna break, and I

376

didn't successfully accomplish

this goal that I wanted to make.

377

And you were saying the process of

experimentation, like using words

378

that, I guess foster this sense of

effort and maybe more journey based

379

language to reaching certain habits

or goals that we have, or creating

380

those as part of our routines and

not thinking of them as bad or?

381

Negative in some way, but

taking a step back and realizing

382

what problem they're solving.

383

And not being so hard on yourself

for maybe reverting back to that,

384

but I just like the language that you

use for some of this kind of stuff.

385

Erin: One of the things, and this is

really game changing, when I was first

386

learning about kind of behavior change

and behavioral science and that we

387

really talk about, in our course and

the book that I have coming out is that.

388

Every behavior is a good

behavior because every behavior

389

is there to solve a problem.

390

And thank God, like we'd be falling

over ourselves if we weren't

391

solving these problems immediately.

392

where they become a quote unquote

problem for us, or maybe a bad behavior

393

or a bad habit, is when they come in

contrast with our long-term goals.

394

So, and being able to have long-term goals

is actually rather new and a privilege

395

to be able to think about because for

millennia, we had to solve for right now.

396

We had to survive.

397

And some people even today, are still

in survival mode and they don't have

398

the privilege of thinking long term.

399

So they need to do whatever they

need to do to survive right now.

400

So thank goodness we have that.

401

And you should have lots

of empathy for yourself.

402

What I prefer to refer to them as is

productive and unproductive habits,

403

because it's only when they come

in contrast to our long-term goals

404

that they potentially are a problem.

405

But in the moment.

406

They're very helpful

407

Kelsy: and you not reaching a

certain thing or falling short of

408

what you think is experimentation.

409

Mm-hmm.

410

It's, you're experimenting with

creating this habit or goal or

411

behavior change that you want.

412

Yep.

413

You also mentioned the need for reward.

414

Mm-hmm.

415

And you said a lot of people forget that.

416

Yep.

417

I know for me, sometimes I forget

the phrase, but dangle a carrot

418

in front of your face mm-hmm.

419

Or dangle a cookie in front of

your face, like some sort of

420

external rewarding stimuli for.

421

My effort towards a certain goal.

422

Explain the different types of rewards

for us and what roles they play when it

423

comes to either goals, habits, or both.

424

Erin: Yeah, so one thing we wanna make

sure to steer away from is what's called

425

like the carrots and sticks method.

426

that's been around for ages, and

that's where you dangle the carrot.

427

You're like, oh, if I, you know,

lose five pounds or if I, you know,

428

exercise every day for the next.

429

Week I get to indulge in a

delicious meal or I get to go

430

gamble or party or whatever.

431

And on the other side, the stick side,

you know, you get punished in some way

432

for not reaching your goal or doing the

behaviors you're supposed to do every day.

433

We don't wanna be going after those

external rewards I don't really like

434

to use the term rewards too much.

435

I like to use rewarding experience

or enjoyable experience, is that

436

the experience of the behavior

needs to be rewarding, but we don't

437

really want to go after a reward.

438

and the difference is that

like, okay, if I am, you know,

439

I wanna run a mile every day.

440

If I am just like loathing

that entire 10 minute mile or

441

whatever it takes me to do it.

442

Then I'm likely not gonna

keep doing that for very long.

443

Like I'm not gonna keep doing

something that is unenjoyable.

444

And oftentimes what we consider valuable

and worth going after to achieve our

445

goals, not only are they maybe like,

just meh toward them and they're

446

unenjoyable, like they might actually

be like, painful, um, in some way,

447

physically or emotionally or whatnot.

448

So we need to make the experience

of doing it rewarding rather

449

than doing it to get a reward.

450

And so if I keep using the running

example, can I like put on, you know, if

451

it takes 10 minutes to run a mile, can

I put on my four, like all time favorite

452

pump up songs to make that experience

enjoyable or my favorite, comedy podcast

453

or can I go do that run in my favorite

place in the city that I live in?

454

Um, so how do I make the

experience more rewarding rather

455

than going after a reward?

456

Because the problem with going after

award or potentially getting punished for

457

not achieving the reward is that at best

we stick to it for that amount of time.

458

You know, until the reward comes or

until we potentially get punished.

459

At worst we end up.

460

Undergoing reactant.

461

So this is where we basically do the

exact opposite of what we wanna do.

462

We end up sitting on the couch We

ended up, you know, going out and

463

binge eating at a burger joint instead

of eating the healthy food we cooked.

464

we end up, sitting and watching TV instead

of having our spiritual or prayer time.

465

So it's more about.

466

Making the experience of the behavior

we're doing rewarding and there

467

are a few strategies we can do.

468

Um, temptation bundling is one of them,

which is where we make a pact with ourself

469

that we're only gonna do a rewarding

behavior with the desired behavior.

470

So, like I said, maybe we are only

get to listen to our four favorite

471

songs or that comedy podcast.

472

When we're doing our 10 minute run, at no

other time can we listen to those songs.

473

At no other time can we

listen to that podcast.

474

And that's one strategy of

many, um, that can be helpful.

475

But we wanna try to refrain from if I

do X behavior or if I achieve X goal.

476

Then I'm gonna get XY reward.

477

Kelsy: Are you always going to

have to rely on making that journey

478

or that experience rewarding?

479

Or is there a shift that can

happen to be like, oh, I am playing

480

my favorite music on this run.

481

I think I'm actually enjoying

running, I'm a runner.

482

shifting.

483

From that rewarding experience and

journey to now this is a part of my

484

identity, this is who I am as a runner.

485

Is there any overlap there?

486

Erin: So for most people, that does

happen, and that's the whole point,

487

is we need to make it rewarding early

on when it's not fun, when it's not

488

enjoyable, when it's hard to get us to

consistently do the rep so that it becomes

489

a repeated behavior or a habit so that it

eventually becomes a part of our identity.

490

So no longer am I someone who's

trying to build a running habit.

491

I am a runner.

492

That is an important part of who I am.

493

So now I go run because running is

who I am and yeah, I might still wanna

494

listen to some music or I might be

to a point where I can just go for

495

a run wherever, whenever, because

it feels good to reinforce who I am

496

and to live the person I want to be.

497

Now, I mean, I don't know about you.

498

We both, started out in fitness.

499

Bulgarian split squats

are never going to be fun.

500

They always suck.

501

But like, I still do them

because they're great for you.

502

And I'm an exerciser and I'm a

fitness person and it's a very

503

important part of my identity.

504

I wanna be healthy and move

until I'm a hundred years old.

505

You know, eventually, the hope is

that it does become a part of your

506

identity and one of your values.

507

And so that is what kind of

motivates you to keep doing it.

508

But it's super important initially to

create, those rewarding experiences

509

around those desired behaviors.

510

Bulgarian split squats.

511

Man,

512

Kelsy: that's, if that example

doesn't resonate with me, I don't

513

know what will, because that is one.

514

But I agree.

515

It's like I do them because I want good

bone marrow density, good muscle, Mel.

516

Like I have all of

these longer term goals.

517

I'm someone who cares about my

health and therefore I do that.

518

So I guess when it comes to rewards.

519

I was always taught early on extrinsic

rewards are good, but you're sort

520

of flipping that script and saying

it's the rewarding journey early

521

on, and maybe it turns more of an

intrinsic reward in who I am as a

522

person as we sort of progress through

523

Erin: Yeah.

524

I'll say there's maybe one caveat

to that is if you have an extrinsic

525

reward that reinforces the habit.

526

So the easiest example I can give

is especially when I've worked with

527

like weight loss clients in the past.

528

We have the goal of like, we're gonna

do some sort of exercise for 20 minutes,

529

you know, at least five days a week.

530

And we set the goal that if we hit at

least 80% of that in a month, then I'm

531

gonna buy a new pair of workout clothes.

532

So that workout clothes is exciting

because it makes you look good and it

533

makes you want to go reinforce the habit.

534

If you're working on a writing habit and

you hit, you know, 20 minutes, five days

535

a week, 80% of the time for a month,

maybe you go buy like a really cool new

536

pen or a really cool new journal or.

537

Finally you get your new laptop that

you've always been wanted if you

538

hit it for a certain amount of time.

539

So that's the one place where

I'll say it's sort of okay

540

to have an external reward.

541

If the external reward kinda reinforces

the behavior we're trying to build.

542

Kelsy: Or the journey too.

543

Makes the journey

544

Mm-hmm.

545

That much more rewarding.

546

'cause you're seeing yourself work

out in a cute, new, active work set.

547

Right.

548

And you're like, wow, this is making that

journey, that experience more rewarding.

549

Mm-hmm.

550

So when it comes to motivation and

discipline with forming habits,

551

what role do those guys play?

552

For habit formation and

behavior change specifically?

553

Erin: Yeah.

554

So motivation is gonna ebb and flow.

555

It's kind of like emotions

or the wave on the ocean.

556

It's gonna come and go

for a variety of reasons.

557

So you don't wanna count on it.

558

'cause if you count on it, you're

not going to be consistent.

559

Discipline or willpower, same thing.

560

It's gonna ebb and flow.

561

What research actually shows,

especially with discipline and

562

willpower, is that those who quote

unquote have the most use it the least.

563

And the reason they use it the

least is 'cause they're actually

564

setting up their environments, like

we talked about earlier, so that

565

they don't have to use discipline.

566

So their home environment, their work

environment, where they spend 80 plus

567

percent of their time, it's set up so

that the desired choice, the desired

568

behavior, is the easy, obvious default.

569

Enjoyable behavior to do.

570

And then they only have to reserve

using discipline or willpower or,

571

you know, that boost of motivation

when they're kind of out in the wild.

572

Maybe they're traveling, uh, maybe

they're at a work conference or something

573

where they don't have hardly any

control over the environment, and then

574

they can flex that discipline muscle.

575

Because you know, they have this

identity and these values that they hold.

576

Or they decide that like this is a one-off

situation and you know, this is a social

577

gathering or whatever and I want to

enjoy this and I'm just gonna enjoy it.

578

And then when I get back to my normal

environment, I'm gonna get right back to

579

my normal habits and behaviors right away.

580

So it plays a role.

581

I would say the biggest thing,

particularly with motivation is like

582

early on when you're starting

your behavior change journey

583

is really thinking into like.

584

What behavior do I wanna do?

585

Why do I wanna do it?

586

Why is now a good time to do it?

587

And really digging in and

keep asking yourself why no

588

matter what the behavior is.

589

Answer it to yourself, write

it out, and then ask why again?

590

And get to that really deep why, and

then that can serve as the motivator

591

when you're out in the wild and life

gets crazy and chaotic, or it's a hell

592

of a day and everything's going wrong.

593

You can really dig into that why as

your motivation as opposed to just

594

some superficial source of motivation.

595

Kelsy: Switching gears a little bit.

596

Mm-hmm.

597

I have struggled in the past with.

598

Goal formation and forming way

too many goals in the new year.

599

Way too many goals that I wanna make

as habits, as part of my routine

600

in the new year, where it's each,

facet of my life, like professional,

601

personal, interpersonal, faith,

financial travel, all sorts of

602

goals in all sorts of categories.

603

So that's one of my problems.

604

Mm-hmm.

605

The second problem I've had in the

past is making too broad of goals.

606

So thinking like travel more where

it's hard for me to actually.

607

Create systems and experiences,

I guess, that allow me to be

608

successful in that goal because I

don't have an objective way to track.

609

Mm-hmm.

610

Have I traveled more?

611

You know, so A, I make goals,

too many goals, and B, I make

612

goals that are too broad.

613

Mm-hmm.

614

What would be some of your tips for

people who are trying to make goals

615

and build habits off of those goals?

616

How can we form better goals

from even a language standpoint

617

that allows us to be better at.

618

Knowing what those goals are,

remembering them and putting in

619

the systems and environments in

place needed to reach those goals.

620

Erin: I'll say one thing that I always

think back is that success breeds success.

621

So we wanna set ourself up for success

and have success in one area so that we

622

can then fuel success in other areas.

623

And what do I mean by that?

624

Well, you set way too big of goals and

too many, so start with just one thing

625

and you know, you said travel more world.

626

I mean, I guess it's sort of an action,

like you're going about traveling, but

627

it's not really, it's like an outcome.

628

Outcome.

629

Mm-hmm.

630

but what does travel more mean?

631

Like, where, how much

are you traveling now?

632

How are you quantifying that?

633

and how much more, if you're taking three

trips a year what does travel more mean?

634

Is that four trips a year now?

635

Is that five?

636

Are we doubling it?

637

Is it six trips a year?

638

Are we tripling?

639

Is it nine trips?

640

Like what does travel more mean actually?

641

Um, and then how are you going to track

that so that you can account for, okay.

642

2025, I took three trips.

643

And how am I gonna know if I took

six in, 20, 26 if that's what I want.

644

Also the behaviors to traveling more.

645

What does that mean?

646

It means I have to create a plan.

647

I have to buy tickets, I

have to purchase hotel rooms.

648

I have to, create, an itinerary of

what I wanna do and where I wanna do.

649

So actually time blocking time to do

those actions that make travel happen.

650

And like starting small.

651

So like I wouldn't go from

three trips to nine trips.

652

I would probably say,

can I get four trips?

653

Like I don't, I don't know how crazy your

schedule is, but can I do just one more?

654

Start small so that you see

yourself being successful and

655

then if you achieve that, great.

656

Your success.

657

You've built the rep,

you've built the identity.

658

If you wanna do more, great,

but you're already successful.

659

So instead of, what we wanna try

to avoid is like failure states

660

and shame spirals early on.

661

Um, and so we really want to set

ourselves up to have early success

662

and success is motivating too.

663

But that will get us to do

hopefully the next step.

664

Um, so being able to like

actually quantify where I am.

665

Where I want to go, then what behaviors

do I need to do to make that happen?

666

And then actually blocking the

time to do those behaviors.

667

You do wanna make sure that

whatever behaviors you're picking,

668

they're smaller than you think.

669

if you've ever read BJ Fogg's

Tiny Habits book, he talks about,

670

it's so absolutely ridiculous.

671

But it it's because it makes a point, like

if you wanna build a flossing habit, you

672

start flossing the gap between one tooth.

673

You're successful, you've built

the rep, you're a flosser.

674

If you flush just one gap every night,

now it feels absolutely ridiculous.

675

And we call this in our program, the

Domino action, because what happens is

676

like if you complete the domino action,

if I floss just one tooth gap, I've done

677

the rep, I've, you know, checked the box.

678

If I'm building that identity

as a flosser, good can call it.

679

Likelihood of me stopping because

it feels so ridiculous of flossing.

680

One tooth cap is very slim, so I'm

likely gonna knock all the dominoes

681

over and just get 'em all floss 'cause

it takes like 30 seconds anyways.

682

so you wanna start smaller than you think.

683

And the other reason is, is like say

you just have the worst day ever.

684

I mean, sure you could

miss one day here or there.

685

We say you should be, you should be,

uh, getting the reps in 80% of the

686

time and you should be able to build

a pretty strong, habit doing that.

687

You don't have to be perfect by any

means, but if you're missing more than

688

that, then you're not really building

the habit, building the identity, and

689

it's not gonna be easily, repeatable.

690

So small, build early success, and then

you can incrementally level up from there.

691

Kelsy: I don't know if you realize that

you did this, and maybe I'm applying what

692

you said earlier in the wrong way, but.

693

With a goal of travel, more outcome

based, you immediately broke it down

694

into process goals, and then I like

how you basically did that for my goal,

695

my outcome, goal of travel more, and

then you broke it up into process,

696

like what flights do I need to book?

697

All of these sorts of things.

698

Mm-hmm.

699

Is that how someone who maybe sets

broad goals should think about it?

700

Let's take maybe a more popular

example of exercise more.

701

Mm-hmm.

702

Is there a benefit to breaking

it down from that outcome

703

goal to more process goals?

704

And then like you said,

reflecting on why is this a goal?

705

Mm-hmm.

706

Why is this my goal right

now at this moment in time?

707

I guess maybe tying that more to

identity is how I took that, right?

708

Erin: that accurate

709

Kelsy: or,

710

Erin: Yeah.

711

So start with, I mean, it's important

to have that outcome goal, but just

712

think of it like set it and forget it.

713

Like that's the guidepost.

714

Now what do I need to do to get there?

715

And then why do I want to do that?

716

because.

717

I might think the obvious, if I want

to exercise more, if I go all the

718

way down to okay, exercise more.

719

So strength train three times

a week, cardio twice a week,

720

and then I get into the Y.

721

While I wanna be healthy, I

wanna play with my grandkids.

722

All this stuff that really

is really meaningful.

723

But then I go back to those

behaviors and if like, I hate

724

cardio on a, you know, on a t.

725

Well, that's not gonna work for me.

726

So maybe I decide I'm gonna go

do a cardio dance class instead.

727

So I do need to get down the

process and then identity and figure

728

out what's actually gonna work.

729

But I also need to figure out like

what am I going to do long term?

730

How do I balance that need between what I

kind of have to do and what I enjoy doing.

731

It's gonna depend per

person, but yes, outcome.

732

Behavior identity and then often going

back to the behaviors to make sure you

733

have the right person behavior fit,

and that, you know, you have the time

734

to do it, you have the resources and

skills to do it, um, so that you're

735

actually successful in doing it.

736

Kelsy: Is there something where when

it comes to behavior change, people can

737

really only remember certain goals, like

three goals throughout the whole year?

738

Is there something very like

objective about how many goals we're

739

actually to keep in mind throughout.

740

A whole year to be consistent with

or, or work towards those goals?

741

Erin: Yeah, I mean, I think

three is generally the number

742

that's thrown out there.

743

I would say it really

depends on the person.

744

Some people can compartmentalize

like, okay, I have, this goal for

745

work and this goal for personal

life and this goal for X, Y, Z.

746

I would say it really depends.

747

I mean, how complex, how big.

748

Harry audacious is this goal?

749

You know, I don't have a hard and fast

answer to that, but I would definitely

750

say like it, most people's lives are

crazy, so if you are successful with

751

one goal in a year, that's probably

more successful than most people are.

752

Most people are just cruising and

surviving, uh, and not thriving.

753

So, start with one and see how that goes.

754

Build from that.

755

Try to actually be successful and

achieve what you wanna achieve

756

consistently for the long term.

757

And then maybe you don't wait until you

fully achieve that, but once you start.

758

Grooving success with that one, then

maybe you start another, some people

759

might be able to handle like two or

three, like one work and one personal.

760

Um, but honestly, like if I'm working

with them, I'm gonna do like a

761

whole assessment on them to see kind

of what's going on in their life.

762

But, um, I would say less is

more when you're starting out.

763

And then as you become more and more

competent and you see yourself being

764

successful, um, and you have the time

and the resources and the skills to be

765

able to do the things you want to do.

766

Sure.

767

Yeah.

768

For sure.

769

Layer on more of them.

770

Kelsy: Bringing it back to the

tiny changes that you said,

771

like floss in between one tooth.

772

I mentioned earlier about the

daily spiritual practice and my.

773

My timer that I have, I do have a

timer for the environment that I'm

774

trying to create that activates this

certain habit formation that I want and

775

behavior change that I want in my life.

776

I'd set it for six minutes.

777

Mm-hmm.

778

'cause I knew six minutes is

what I can like actually do.

779

Mm-hmm.

780

Every day.

781

And I've noticed after I

noticed how inconsistent I was

782

with some of the broad and.

783

Quantity of goals that I used to

make, that it really was that floss

784

one tooth sort of goal that I'm

able to stay more consistent with.

785

And yeah, like you said, flossing one

tooth, you're not just gonna floss

786

one tooth, most of the time you're

going to wanna do everything else.

787

So I think I've found.

788

Success without even knowing it.

789

I guess with those

small, like six minutes.

790

Mm-hmm.

791

I can do six minutes.

792

Like that's okay.

793

Or we even teach it with exercise

where it's like, do one set of your

794

workouts, see how you feel after that.

795

And most of the time people can get

over that hump a little bit too.

796

So, yeah, I think that's been

one of the keys, I guess to me,

797

consistently improving my habit

formation and goal setting abilities

798

Erin: it's so easy to fall into, you

know, trying to go after those big.

799

Outcome goals or big behavior goals?

800

I mean, even myself, when I started

writing the book I'm writing close to a

801

year ago, uh, I was like, Tuesdays and

Thursdays are my best days to write.

802

I work from home.

803

I have more kind of free

quote unquote free time.

804

I don't have to be face to face with

clients or in meetings and whatnot.

805

And so I was like, I'm gonna write for

three hours every Tuesday and Thursday,

806

and then, you know, the to-dos of

business and work would get in the way.

807

And I just like, would end up

doing nothing over something.

808

And so I was like, I need to

actually assess my behavior here.

809

You know, so applied the, the

assessment that we use, um, you know,

810

for all our coaches and everything

because, you know, I'm a, I'm a human.

811

We're always a practitioner,

never a master.

812

And so I realized that by

setting such a big goal.

813

I was doing nothing instead.

814

And so once I actually was like,

okay, 20 minutes a day, I can

815

definitely even do 20 minutes on my

crazy Monday, Wednesday, Fridays.

816

and then I actually found that

once I let myself do just 20

817

minutes a day, I actually ended

up averaging two hours a day.

818

It's crazy.

819

That's wild.

820

I was wondering, like

821

Kelsy: with your book writing, I was

gonna ask like, what Parts of what you

822

coach people on have you had to use.

823

So it's interesting to

hear like, okay, hang on.

824

I had to actually break it up and set

a more achievable goal for myself of 20

825

minutes rather than the multiple hours.

826

Yeah, a few days a week.

827

Erin: Oh no, I definitely ended

up using it on myself, but

828

it is, like I said, so easy.

829

You have empathy for

yourself to fall into.

830

Like, I know how to do this, I can

just do this, you know, do the thing.

831

But yeah, I mean actually if, if you

read the book, Do two personal examples.

832

I think in like chapter 10

or 11 of the book and I walk.

833

One of them is writing the book and

how I actually assessed my behavior and

834

tracked it throughout and which strategies

I used to get me to stick to it.

835

And then like I said, I

collected hard data and I set

836

the goal for 20 minutes a day.

837

Once I kind of analyzed my behavior

and my environments and whatnot.

838

And, um.

839

I averaged just shy of two hours once I

actually like sat down to assess things

840

and put the right strategies in place

to help me take action consistently.

841

Kelsy: you are also the founder

of Habit Coach Professionals.

842

Mm-hmm.

843

And I'll say as a PT, one of the.

844

Hardest things to get patients to

do is not telling them what to do,

845

but actually getting them to put

in the behavior change to do it.

846

Mm-hmm.

847

So if any of you guys resonate with

that, or in the healthcare field,

848

or nutrition or personal training or

dietetics coaching, or, I feel like every

849

industry has some component of needing

to get behavior change in someone else.

850

So I'll leave the link to.

851

The Habit Coach Professionals website

and Air and below if you guys are

852

interested in that certification and

like learning more because I feel like

853

we are just touching the surface on all

that you guys cover in that program, but

854

you also just finished writing a book.

855

Talk a little bit about that too, all

that goes into that why you wanted

856

to write a book and how it dives in a

little bit deeper, even for the everyday.

857

Person like me.

858

Erin: Yeah.

859

So in order to talk about why

wrote the book, I'll kind of talk

860

about why started Habit Coach

professionals in the first place.

861

So, uh, I've been coaching since 2008.

862

Um, and I started out in just fitness

and then it was fitness and nutrition.

863

And then basically those two realized

that, okay, like I still can't really help

864

someone live a fully healthy, happy life,

Fitness solved one problem, nutrition

865

solved a little bit more of a problem.

866

So then I started sleep and recovery,

motivation and mindset, how our

867

workplaces and home spaces are designed.

868

But I kept running into one problem,

which is no matter what I teach my

869

clients, whatever knowledge you give

them skills you help them develop.

870

I could never figure out how get

them to do the thing, whatever the

871

thing is, you know, move more, eat

better, sleep better, pray more,

872

meditate more, whatever it might be.

873

When I'm not there with

them, they're great.

874

When we're in session, you know,

if you're lucky, that's maybe

875

three hours a week with the client.

876

If you're lucky.

877

Most people would probably get about

an hour or half hour with their

878

clients, a week in person or online.

879

But yeah, they have 160 something hours.

880

To do what they want.

881

And that's a lot of time to kind

of mess up all the good stuff

882

that we did in our one, two, or

three hours worth of sessions.

883

And so it was really frustrating because

I really did want to help people change.

884

and so, once I finished graduate school,

you know, I was still kind of hungry for

885

more to try to figure out this problem.

886

And so I would say actually in

graduate school I started to

887

discover behavioral science.

888

Um, it's not my formal background.

889

I started exercise physiology, but

realized that it doesn't matter how

890

much you know about the body, if

you can't get people to, behave in

891

a way that's productive for them.

892

so started to come across behavioral

science and studying it just on

893

my own, not in graduate school.

894

Um, and eventually connected with

my business partner who does have

895

a behavioral science background.

896

Um, but the reason I connected with

him is I realize that behavioral

897

science actually solves this problem.

898

It teaches us how we make decisions,

what makes behaviors happen?

899

How behaviors turn into habits, and

how our various environments, whether

900

that's built home, workspace, third

space, social, friends, family,

901

coworkers, mental, what's going

on in our head, digital, all of

902

our devices, how those impact the

behaviors or the choices we make?

903

Behaviors we do in habits we form.

904

and that was not being taught to coaches

at least directly in our continuing

905

education opportunities other than maybe

like trans theoretical model of change

906

or motivational interviewing, all of

which are great, all of which we need

907

to know, but they don't teach us how

to actually get our clients to do the

908

dang thing when we aren't with them.

909

Um, and behavioral science does once

you understand it and know how to assess

910

behavior in people's environments.

911

So that wasn't in.

912

Kind of the coaching space.

913

And I thought, well, I can teach my

clients this directly, but if I teach

914

my clients, I help one client at a time,

which is great, but if I teach a coach who

915

has 20 clients, then I'm helping 21 people

at a time, the coach and their 20 clients.

916

And so I kind of wanted to scale what

I've been learning, but I also needed a

917

more kind of like formal background, um,

in the network of behavioral science.

918

And so that's why I ended up partnering,

with my business partner, Samuel Alser.

919

And so he's, you know, has behavioral

science training and together we built

920

a 10 week cohort based mentorship

and certification for coaches.

921

Um, teaching them behavioral science

and how to actually assess behavior

922

and help people form habits and do the

thing, whatever the thing is when you

923

know the coach isn't by their side.

924

So I've done that for almost seven years.

925

Um, we've served coaches in,

I think 25 countries now in 25

926

states, which is mind blowing to

me, um, without any paid marketing.

927

Somehow the world is crazy and so

having done that, you know, we've.

928

Really refined our process and our

program and it's done really well.

929

But then I've come kind of

full circle back in that, okay,

930

one, not everybody is a coach.

931

Not everybody can hire a coach.

932

It's a privilege to hire a coach.

933

It's a privilege to enroll in a

thousand plus certification program.

934

And so I hate that we're not

intentionally, but you know.

935

What we're teaching is hidden behind

a thousand plus dollar paywall.

936

And it's a great program.

937

It should probably cost more

than that from what I'm told.

938

But still that's a high

investment for a lot of people.

939

Um, and also a lot of people

can't hire coaches, so I wanted

940

to make what we teach available.

941

To the lay population to everybody so

that anybody if they want to, can start

942

to coach themselves towards better habits.

943

And so that's where the book comes in.

944

The book is called Do The Thing.

945

it came from what I told

you at the beginning.

946

It's like, how do I get my clients

to do the thing or myself at times

947

to do the thing, you know, like the

writing habit I was trying to work at.

948

So that'll be, that'll be

out hopefully in March.

949

I'll say that on, on the air,

um, hopefully late March.

950

Um, but definitely in 2026 here.

951

so that anybody can use behavioral science

to coach themselves towards better habits,

952

even when, you know, life is messy and

chaotic and maybe you don't have the

953

motivation to do what you wanna do.

954

That's wonderful.

955

Kelsy: I love it.

956

You also mentioned a launch program

or an ambassador program of some sort.

957

Erin: Yeah, so a little bit.

958

Being that the book is coming out pretty

soon, we're building a launch team for it.

959

The goal is to get to 500 I'm

at, just so I have 200 right now.

960

So over this next month or so, really

going to have to build that up.

961

Um, and so if you join the

Launch team, it's free to join.

962

It takes one minute to join.

963

You just have to put your name, email in

what tier you'd like to enroll at, but if

964

you join, you'll get first access to the

book and a free digital copy of the book,

965

um, in exchange for a small commitment.

966

And there are three tiers of commitments.

967

So tier one.

968

You agree to buy some form of

the book, obviously the ebook

969

will be the cheapest version.

970

you agree to leave a review and

you agree to share about it with

971

your friends, family, coworkers,

whether that be online or in person.

972

tier two, you're pre-comm committing to

buying the book and leaving a review.

973

And tier three, you're pre-com

committing to buying a book.

974

Kelsy: I love it.

975

I will leave that link below

if you guys are interested, I

976

will definitely be signing up.

977

Like I said, with the Atomic

Habits, I think that book I

978

need to read year after year.

979

And I have a feeling your book, I will

have to be reading year after year

980

and even listening to this episode

year after year and maybe even, you

981

know, every half year be like, okay,

let me regroup and, and understand.

982

'cause for me It helps me to understand

the science behind these sorts

983

of things, to actually like, make

it stick in my brain a little bit

984

and, and help motivate me towards

certain things that I'm trying to do.

985

So I think when it comes to different

resources that you have out there,

986

you have tons on the website too.

987

So I'll leave the link to the Habit

Coach Professionals website below too.

988

But.

989

I think anytime I can remind myself

the importance of taking a step back

990

and analyzing certain situations in my

environment and certain activators and

991

just my routines as a whole to see what

is actually pushing me towards certain

992

goals that I want and what is retracting

me from certain goals that I want.

993

I think Any time I can

do that is super helpful.

994

Erin: Yeah, and I'll say Atomic

Habits is a really great book.

995

It's the top one I recommend.

996

The second other one I probably recommend

is Good Habits, bad Habits by Wendy Wood.

997

She's a researcher in California.

998

the reason I also wrote this book, other

than, having done the certification and

999

wanting to make that available to, the

population at large is that I felt like

00:46:27,414 --> 00:46:30,904

whenever I'd gifted a tell my habits to

a variety of friends and family workers,

00:46:30,904 --> 00:46:32,104

coaches, when they'd read the book,

00:46:32,344 --> 00:46:35,344

They're great books, you should read

them, but you'd get this grab bag of

00:46:35,344 --> 00:46:37,414

strategies that you're kind of left with.

00:46:37,414 --> 00:46:40,744

Like, okay, let me grab some spaghetti,

throw it the wall and see if it sticks.

00:46:40,954 --> 00:46:42,694

But you never really

know if what you grabbed.

00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:44,489

Was the right strategy in the first place.

00:46:44,489 --> 00:46:46,229

You're just crossing your

fingers that this works.

00:46:46,229 --> 00:46:51,519

And so one of the reasons I wrote do the

thing is so that you actually have an

00:46:51,519 --> 00:46:56,439

assessment process to figure out why is

what I want to do not happening or what

00:46:56,439 --> 00:47:00,009

I don't want to do still happening so

that I can then use whatever I learned

00:47:00,009 --> 00:47:03,189

from a topic habits or good habits, bad

habits or tiny habits to pick the right

00:47:03,189 --> 00:47:07,309

strategy based on how I've assessed, where

things fall through in the habit loop.

00:47:07,443 --> 00:47:10,653

So that I'm actually efficient and

effective in creating behavior change

00:47:10,653 --> 00:47:14,313

and achieving my goals rather than

just like trying for, you know, two or

00:47:14,313 --> 00:47:17,823

three weeks or six weeks and failing

and, you know, giving up or going

00:47:17,823 --> 00:47:20,673

after the next shiny object instead

of actually sticking to it and find

00:47:20,673 --> 00:47:21,813

something that works for the long haul.

00:47:22,083 --> 00:47:25,323

Kelsy: So it's the information,

the education part, and then yours

00:47:25,323 --> 00:47:26,313

comes in with the application.

00:47:26,313 --> 00:47:26,403

Mm-hmm.

00:47:26,643 --> 00:47:29,973

And like how to actually apply

some of the behavior, change

00:47:29,973 --> 00:47:31,443

science to your own life too.

00:47:31,473 --> 00:47:31,953

I love that.

00:47:31,953 --> 00:47:32,193

Exactly.

00:47:32,253 --> 00:47:33,603

There's a trend right now on.

00:47:33,643 --> 00:47:35,713

TikTok called like the learning

curriculum and building out

00:47:35,713 --> 00:47:36,703

your own learning curriculum.

00:47:36,703 --> 00:47:38,558

So I'm like picturing if people have.

00:47:39,263 --> 00:47:41,153

This desire to learn more

about behavior change.

00:47:41,153 --> 00:47:43,523

They can combine all of these things

and be like, okay, I'm gonna do

00:47:43,523 --> 00:47:47,123

Atomic Habits, and then Wendy Woods

book, and then be like, okay, how

00:47:47,123 --> 00:47:48,263

can I apply all of that to my life?

00:47:48,263 --> 00:47:50,603

Like a nice little learning

curriculum on behavior change.

00:47:50,633 --> 00:47:51,053

Erin: I wouldn't know.

00:47:51,053 --> 00:47:53,953

I don't have a TikTok and never

will get one, but I'm glad,

00:47:53,953 --> 00:47:54,973

Hey, that sounds productive.

00:47:55,123 --> 00:47:55,663

Kelsy: It's awesome.

00:47:55,663 --> 00:47:59,238

it's fun to learn new things outside

of the classroom when you're an adult.

00:47:59,238 --> 00:47:59,328

Mm-hmm.

00:47:59,568 --> 00:48:00,198

That's what it is.

00:48:00,198 --> 00:48:02,718

It's like building your own

curriculum outside to like.

00:48:03,148 --> 00:48:05,368

Continue that growth mindset and

that learning throughout life.

00:48:05,368 --> 00:48:06,598

I love that, which is super fun.

00:48:06,598 --> 00:48:08,878

So thank you so much for coming on.

00:48:08,878 --> 00:48:09,838

I know I learned a lot.

00:48:09,838 --> 00:48:11,808

Again, I'm gonna have to come back

and listen to this episode and I'll

00:48:11,808 --> 00:48:15,138

leave all of the links below that

we mentioned during the episode.

00:48:15,138 --> 00:48:16,938

But I hope you guys

learned a lot from Erin.

00:48:17,148 --> 00:48:20,958

I'm very grateful for her for coming

on and sharing all of this because it

00:48:21,678 --> 00:48:25,338

is just so much deeper than what we

think when it comes to habit formation,

00:48:25,388 --> 00:48:27,338

And goal setting in general, and

especially with the New Year.

00:48:27,338 --> 00:48:28,538

So I'm very, very grateful.

00:48:28,658 --> 00:48:29,408

I'm grateful for you.

00:48:29,408 --> 00:48:30,038

Thank you so much.

00:48:30,038 --> 00:48:30,518

Of course.

00:48:30,518 --> 00:48:33,728

I hope you guys learned a lot and

enjoyed this episode, and I'll

00:48:33,728 --> 00:48:36,038

see you guys again on the next

episode of Wellness Fixes the Pod.