In this episode we welcomed BikePOC PNW Co-Founder Will Cortez into the Shed. Host Jonathan Maus wanted to check in with Will about Portland's progress on welcoming more Black, Indigenous and people of color into the local cycling and transportation advocacy scene — nearly three years after the George Floyd protests.

Will and Jonathan touch on a number of topics including: Will's concerns on how BikeLoud PDX tokenizes "equity" in the framing of their new lawsuit against the City of Portland, why progress to diversify government advisory committees is slow/nonexistent, his disappointments with the Oregon Bicycle Racing Association's attempt to attract more Black racers, and more.

He also shares about his beloved cat (named after a Japanese fruit) and why he thinks the PDX Trophy Cup cyclocross series is the best local example of progress toward a more welcoming and inclusive community.

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LINKS:

• Making Nature Accessible (Story on Will's work at Metro)
• Bob Stacey, Khanh Pham, BikePOC PNW named 2021 ‘Alice Award’ winners (BikePortland)
• HiFi Sound Cycling Components wins $10,000 Inspiring Diversity grant (BikePortland)

Our theme music was provided by The Podcast Host and Alitu: The Podcast Maker app.

Jonathan Maus 0:01

Will Cortez 0:45

Yeah. Thanks for having me.

Jonathan Maus 0:47

Okay, so I'd like to start off on a really serious topic. I follow you on social media, and have noticed several posts about your cat. Can you tell me more about this a cat of yours?

Will Cortez 0:58

Oh, this cat, like I realized in the home that I live in the two bedroom, single bath home, how much of my space is absolutely devoted to her comfort? You know, it's about making sure there aren't lights in our faces, there's making sure she's got great purchase. There's making sure that she's got heated beds, there's making sure that she just moves through space. I had a friend over the other day, Jonathan, just to say that we're about to push a chair in my table, and I said, Oh, we leave that chair out. So that way, my cat who may bow she can hop up onto the table. Yeah. Ume boshi. It's a Japanese plum. Hmm, yeah. So I call her Ume for short. I like to say it's like, she's like a little sweet and tart. But also, what I found out through through a mutual friend was that when she was rescued when she was found, she was sitting under a plum tree, like, How adorable is that?

Jonathan Maus 1:56

um, so another thing I would love to ask is, if you could just describe your relationship to cycling, like through your life. So, you know, the beginning and middle and the present.

Will Cortez 2:10

Jonathan Maus 3:49

Will Cortez 4:03

25 Oh, no younger. So I appreciate that. So I was born in 78. Born in the Philippines, born into a navy family, you know, so this is when the you know, the US military had just a huge military presence in the Philippines.

Jonathan Maus 4:18

Yeah, yeah. And you and you move around a lot as a kid, right? So I knowing that and also knowing that you to me, it seems like just from what I know about you, you're sort of a you're like a joint you're not you're a joiner, you've joined all these different groups committees involved in trail running cross country trail running, but then you didn't just start running on trails, you would like put on races and absolutely, you know, you don't just get into cycling, you start racing, and then you launch a group that's, you know, gets other people the race. So you're you really get into stuff and I feel like you've also been a leader in a lot of these different sort of social environments, if you will, but I feel like in some ways, you're sort of like a professional assimilator and I wonder or if that's like a simulator in terms of like adapting to your environment that you're in. And I wonder if that's was that a natural thing for you? Or you think you were predisposed for that? Or was it like a survival tactic? A bit of both?

Will Cortez 5:12

John? I would definitely say it is. It is definitely a bit of both and probably more survival tactic. And I, you know, and I'll be completely honest with you, because as you're, as you're sort of crafting and framing this question, for me, I'm like, already feeling like, Oh, here's the tension, here's the anxiety around being referred to as an assimilator. Because I've carried that. So I've carried that personally. And over the last three plus, you know, four or five years really, really done the deep dive personally to think about, like, what does that look like for me to be in a simulator? Because that has been a survival tactic for for myself, particularly as an immigrant, right?

Jonathan Maus 5:50

Yeah. I appreciate pulling out that word. I felt it might be problematic to use that word. I

Will Cortez 5:54

don't know if that's a no, no, like, seriously. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And the thing is, is like I don't, that's the thing is, is like, I'm telling you right now that yeah, there was like I'm leaning into, I'm leaning into this discomfort around the word. But I also want you to know that this is, this is a word that I have redefined for myself, right. So this is a word that I don't use to hold me back.

Jonathan Maus 6:14

So just to back up a bit, you've mentioned a few times how you sort of lean into these things. And it's clear that you sort of are stepping into your strength and your confidence around being someone who is an advocate for racial justice, all sorts of social justice stuff, racial justice, you work in accessibility, which is more about even disability just right, get people out on like adaptive bikes on an on an off road Trail, which is an awesome piece of work that people should Google about what Metro is doing on that. And there's something that you said in warpaint magazine, which is a wonderful magazine, folks should check out, you said, quote, I bring a lens of disability, justice, racial justice, climate and climate justice to everything I do in my personal professional life. But one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you was because I feel like in general, folks are starting to glaze over some of this stuff. They're starting to kind of like, because we're almost three years now since the George Floyd protests and all that folks are sort of like, just kind of getting back to the comfortable normal, right? So part of this is like, if you could just share with folks like, we hear the word lens justice and lens together, and it's used so much now by government agencies, and press releases that, like you said, those things, that that's how that's what you bring to your work. Like, what does that mean to you? How do you find that?

Will Cortez 7:33

Yeah, so it's a wonderful question. And it's, it's related to my comment about leaning into discomfort, right? So. So when folks like myself, or agencies or groups, or any communities of folks are talking about, oh, I bring this equity lens, oh, I bring this disability justice lens. And, you know, for me, what it really comes down to is what it what does it look like for you to be an ally versus an accomplice, okay, we can all be allies, we can all say, Hey, I'm gonna put that sign in my yard, hey, those things are wrong. And hey, these things are right. But what does it look like when you or myself or anyone else in our community, put our standing on the line. And it's not like me walking around haphazardly, bull in a china shop, knocking things over not caring. But I'm literally at this place where I firmly believe like, it doesn't matter what people think of me, it doesn't matter. Like, as I'm coming into the space that I'm making people uncomfortable, I am putting myself on the line and putting myself professionally, socially, all these places, and I don't care what they think about me, these things need to stay at the forefront. And to me, that's what bringing the lens means, right? Is like is making sure that you're not going to step back and all of a sudden, like start to cater to people's comfort levels, right? Like, pushing the discomfort is where the learning comes from. And that's what it means for me to bring an equity lens and stuff. It's like, okay, you've got this thing. I'm gonna press you more, and I don't care what you think about me on this.

Jonathan Maus 9:06

moment? Slowly? It kind of I love this. I love this. I mean, I don't I don't love the reason that it started. But yeah, you're hitting it exactly. So Kevin spoke up and said, This is the reality of my situation being out there. And so I emailed him privately, you know, because I know, I know, Kevin, I've known him for a long time actually taught his daughter when I was a high school teacher. And I said, Kevin, like, like F Yeah, like, yes. And he goes, You know what, we'll hop into the chat and say that so these other people can see them?

Because he had to say it. And he had to say it wasn't easy for him because none of your friends is he's written Absolutely. But they're mostly white yet.

He's an icon. He's been he's been a cycling icon, right, starting the organizing clubs, right? Yeah. Yeah. And then in his wife to like, doing the same thing to like having her own women's writing group as well. Right. So they're icons in the community. And he said, will say it. So I did. And I couldn't believe it. Because I don't want to say that it was just me. But I'm glad to be there to help break the dam open. Because all of a sudden, you start seeing several other people pick up right, yeah. And I will tell you that like on my own, and like my own, like, immature experience around around like, meeting other people of color, because I've been simulated so hard living in Oregon was I just started picking out names. I'm like, You know what, honestly, that name sounds different than the names that I know, I'm gonna go ahead and assume that they are people of color. And thankfully, like, I will, like, totally admit that and own that misstep. But at the same time, these folks are sharing their experiences. And so what I did was I started collecting these names. And then I sent a separate email and I said, let's do our own thing. And that's literally how bipoc b&w started. And just to say that, I think what really prompted Kevin, what pushed Kevin was that it was it was the sheer deluge of comments around, you should have done this, you should have done that. It was the it was the explaining to to this poster, that you are perfectly within your rights to do this. You can say this to the landowners,

and I see what you're saying. I see what you're saying. So it was a bunch of people that have privilege, the privilege the privilege of Yeah, well, you should have gone up and just tours private property sign down. It's

I mean, we're all along those lines, right. And I do and I do want to say like, as we keep talking today, one of the ways that I want to talk about privilege, because people often define this as like this special, right? This special ability. So in this situation, when I say these folks had privilege, I like to say, what is it that you when you walked out the door that morning that you did not have to surrender? Okay, and if you didn't have to surrender much, that's privilege, right? And so when these folks are posting on this on this comment forum, like you should do this, and you should do that. It's like, Yeah, but you don't surrender much when you walk out the door the day, you know. So Kevin, then that's what Kevin called them out on. And that's when we that's like how bipoc b&w started and Kevin showed up to the first two rides, and he wasn't writing at the time. But he was taking photos and was fantastic.

So tell us about those early days of Bikepark P and W. Some huge rides. It just struck a nerve, the timing of it like yeah, what was that? Like? What What kind of happened in those first few days? And then what what's bring us up to speed on bike? Puck? b&w,

yeah, absolutely. I would say definitely, within those first few rides, there was the excitement for some folks, it was fun. It was funny because it was, it was sort of just the excitement of finding new friends, right. And then for at least the other half of us and then and then for some folks as they turned around, it was really about finding a space to grieve in. It felt really odd for folks to just be in a space where it was just like all non white bodies like that was really different. So we spent a lot of time like you know what I call like the oppression Olympics like sharing about, like the worst things that happened to each other because you need that space, right? Because I feel like that's true for every or every coming together people's like, let's let's get together let's bitch and complain about like the toughest parts of this. And then if we can get past that hump, like beautiful things will start to grow. Right? And so that's what we spent a lot of those first. Those first couple to three months doing was just like coming together commiserating, grieving, sharing the horror stories of like, of just of just being kind of being marginalized. Right? And then moving forward.

Here's a question and feel free to push back on this. And even the framing of this idea because it came up in my head and I wanted to ask it, ask you about it. I see that there are there are they're not like two goals to that work. Let's say like bipoc, b&w, right, you want the group to be successful, and like, you know, have influence and have impact. You want it to be a space where people can go to find people that are like them say, you know, similar lived experiences all that, like you talked about. But then is another goal also to make the community itself more, you know, make the community itself like less white, on a more broader scale? Like how do you balance those things of like creating a space that's really like that safe and welcoming to black indigenous people of color, but also like doing a better job of like integrating within existing spaces or like the community more broadly? And is that just me seeing that it's Bikepark? Over here? And then the other stuff here? Or can you talk about how those two things? Yeah, no,

yeah, it's, I, you know, I'll be completely honest with you, and that we have been lacking these, these bipoc Only spaces. So in the immediate future, and I'm talking five, seven, maybe even 10 years. I'm not worried about and I hope that's the case about worried about integrating, we're not trying to make things more brown, right. The thing is, is that these folks are here, and it's about it's about uncovering, uncovering whatever layers, whatever barriers, whatever walls are in their way, and like making sure that they know that, hey, there is a space that we think is safe, and we want to make it more safe with your input. Right. And I say that because when we held I mean, we started in January of 2021. And by I believe it was April, April ish. It was the the murders in Atlanta, at the at that salon, I can't remember exactly whether it was February or March, you know, we held the API ride. I'm not gonna lie, I had no idea there were that many Asian people who rode bikes in Portland, and I can't believe the hundreds of people who rolled through. That was fantastic. So all of a sudden, we lifted, right, we lifted a layer off and said, hey, here we are come congregate. And then the same thing. Any day that I popped down to Gateway green when folks say, you know, or make a blanket statement about Oh, bipoc. Folks don't use that mountain bike park. It's like, that's a lie. That's an absolute lie. What is happening is that they are going bipoc communities are going to get a green, but no one's connecting them to the other bipoc users there. Right. So we are here. We're not right. So we're already in the population. We're already mixed in here. We're just trying to create an intentional space to just come he'll find community. Right. And, you know, we're using bikes, it could honestly be anything. Right. But we're using bikes right now.

Yeah, I hear you. And I have, I have seen just from my visual anecdotal evidence that there has been more crossover. I mean, there's just like more people of color at events, go to on bike rides, even if they're not a bike park ride or right, right, ostensibly, like, you know, so that I'm seeing that, which we would assume just because that's kind of how bicycling works. You know, once you do it over here, you want to do it over there and everywhere, because it's so fun, and it kind of gets under your skin. So that is happening, I guess naturally. But that's interesting to hear. You talk about like the intention of the group. So it's so folks understand that you're not your goal isn't actually to go integrate the community necessarily. You're going to make your space really, really strong. Yeah, I got it. That's, that's important. I appreciate that. Yeah. I wanted to I mean, kind of like, kind of in a similar vein, if we look out, not just in the Portland community, but in the outdoor sort of cycling space more broadly. In the last three years, there has just been a massive influx in sort of representation of people of color. Yeah. Is that something? Are you ready to just like, celebrate

that? Oh, my God, I know about that. Tell me how you feel about oh, my goodness, the browning of media. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. How it's, I've seen it's, it's, it's too in your face?

It is pretty strong.

It's too in your face? It is. Yeah, it came on, it came on strong. There's it's a lot of window dressing. Right. It's a London window. It's a lot of window dressing. Up front, we get it like we get that bipoc Folks are users of the outdoors, but like where at the end of the day, like are these companies standing behind these? Like, where are they supporting these communities? Right? You know, someone, someone once said to me, so and I hope she doesn't get upset but mercy, who leaves wild diversity, once said, after a photo shoot that they had done, she said, you have my image, but do you care about my body? Right, and that sticks with me because that's what I've seen with this, like browning of the media with wood. That's a term that I that I use all the time, right? Because like you said, all of a sudden, it was like someone flipped a switch and like every single model and all like outdoor like in the outdoor world, which has been heavily commodified. Like it's like a bipoc person.

So you're not, you don't that doesn't bother you in and of itself. It's the follow through piece. It's, there's a deeper part that you would like to see. Right, which, which kind of gets me to the next thing, this idea of you know, the How much progress is being made or like, you know, the messy venture of moving the ball down the field making progress on this stuff, I wanted to talk to you about the thing that that got got us on the phone last week or whatever to chat, which was this lawsuit passed last late last month by a local nonprofit by cloud PDX. Right. So for folks that haven't heard by Cloud has filed a lawsuit by clouds a bike, sort of a typical bike, just a grassroots group, they don't have any paid staff, yet. They're relatively small. They just do lots of great bike activism around town, they filed a lawsuit against the against the city of Portland that alleges they have not that the city has not met the legal requirements of the Oregon pedestrian and bicycle bill, which is a piece of legislation signed in 1971. That requires bikeways to be built, like whenever a big road project happens. So almost every reaction to that, that I sort of heard in my view of the community was positive people were like, Finally, we're finally going to do something about a spike bill and forced the city to put up you know, more bike lanes and all this kind of stuff. Then you got in touch with me with some of your concerns about how they were like, how they just have they were talking about the lawsuit in public and how they were framing it in the press, let's say. So I wonder if you can just shed some light on your concerns about how by cloud was talking about that, like in relation to your work as like a racial justice? You know, organizer?

Yeah, absolutely. I'm, I think, I think the thing for me, and just the experience that I have in the community, and what I'm seeing is that and then and then having this this perspective that I bring also working for a government agency, right? Is that talking about equity is really buzzword, right? And, and I can't recall the specific statement that they made, but equity was very, like it was like shoehorned in at the end. Yeah, I

actually got the email about the lawsuit just to some extent we're talking about. So after they, they announced basically they're doing this lawsuit, here's a quote that I think you might be, you might have had in mind, it said, quote, all too often in this quote coming from by cloud, they said, quote, all too often the people we want to serve are left with streets that do not keep them safe in or out of a car, then they say, this is especially true in low income communities of color, who are disproportionately affected by traffic violence. So that was kind of the framing that they were that they were

taught. Absolutely, absolutely. And I think that was the piece that I had, just, I mean, zero it in, you know,

and they're not the only ones that are kind of using that frame, you hear quite a bit from Oh, my goodness, people talking about trash, transportation, you know, projects and improvements, they always have to throw that thing in about, yeah, we're doing this for poor people, or whatever else, right? Or black and brown people, because they're the ones who will benefit the most. So why does that? Why aren't you happy about that?

Like, what's it's I mean, it's such an oversimplification of a greater systemic issue, right. And talking about bike lanes, or the presence of bike lanes, and like the need for them is such a symptom of something just even greater. And, and yes, yes, absolutely, that black and brown communities are disproportionately affected, you know, in terms of safety, so we're seeing higher pedestrian and, and bike fatalities related to that. Absolutely. Like, I'm not, I'm not going to question that. But if we think that installing bike lanes is going to fix that entirely, like that is pretty short sighted. Right. And so and so I'm, I'm not going to argue that, that the City of Portland didn't come through on their end with completing their bike infrastructure, right. I mean, they didn't come through just as a related topic they didn't come through when they promised that they were going to do all these curb cuts, which is why you saw the lawsuit that happened, which is why there's curb cuts galore going in all over Portland, and have been over the last couple of years. Right. So that was also a part of that they made a promise didn't follow through, someone sued them. And that's what's happening here with MyClone as well, right? Yeah. So there's that, but you can't just make a blanket statement about equity or related to equity unless you're talking to those communities. So just like in the work that I do around disabilities and and the disability community specifically, and, and especially in bipoc, communities don't do anything for us without us. So don't speak about low income communities don't speak about marginalized like historically excluded and marginalized communities without asking them exactly what they need, right? Because we've seen examples of communities that we will deem historically marginalized, push back against having bike lanes like that is low on our list. We need these other things to happen first, right?

And you would say that happens because you'll make the rhetoric won't match the, the sort of the the intentional follow through or the actual work and so in the case of iCloud, you're seeing that in their statement about the lawsuit, but if you click over to their website or something, there's not necessarily inequity

statement, right? There's not an equity statement. So so to me, it's an it's an empty piece. It's just like, it's like adding that hashtag to that Craigslist ad so people can find it, right? So you talk about equity, and all of a sudden it gets elevated the top of the pile, because I'm not gonna lie. I've seen it in my own work. In the government agency, I worked for it, and just the channels that I that I'm in where someone throws out the word equity, and all of a sudden, everyone like, you know, the hairs on people's the back of their necks like perked up, and they're like, Okay, well, we need to pay more attention to this. Right? Yeah. So. So I'm not asking these folks to stop. What I'm asking them to do is to move intentionally, right.

Yeah. How do you how do you balance the fact I mean, as someone who's working on it with a grassroots nonprofit trying to, like, you know, make it go from like a fledgling thing and the nest of flying on its own? I'm sure you can relate to the fact that by cloud is a similar organization. These are just grassroots folks. Spare Time side hustle kind of stuff. How much can we, as a community expect from a group like that to have to do to be able to do this kind of work to authentically talk about a commitment to equity or the fact that they care about that? Yeah,

absolutely. So what I want to what I don't want us to do is I don't want to divorce the fact that this is clearly something that people are passionate about, and passionate to the core. Because when you're passionate to the core about something, especially when you need to see change, who gives a shit what the work looks like, right? Like the work is going to be hard. Like, I would hope they knew that as soon as they step forward the lawsuit that, like they just expose themselves, right, like they dropped they dropped the drawbridge to the castle keep right? And everyone's going to come in, right?

Yeah, it's like, more more prominence. More expectation. Yeah. As you grow, you need to grow.

Yeah, kind of so. So the reason I pushed back and I came in hard is like, let's clean up the message. Okay. Like, you have this opportunity, because you have this backing, you've got you, you've got this law firm back there, you've got support from folks locally, you know, some real community activators, some, some real influential folks, you've got the support. So like, let's get in there. And like, let's do this surgically, like let's do, let's do the best possible thing that we can when we're moving forward with this lawsuit. So I'm coming in. And I think you know, and I gave you, I gave you this analogy, because I feel like it really fits here. Right. And that is, you know, if we're going to talk biblical then it's like that iron sharpens iron idea, right. But I like to think of folks as either being swords or their butter knives, right? friction, and like the right kind of friction sharpens us, it gets us ready, it gets us ready to do whatever we need to do. So my blade is sharp, I want to be a sword, or you can just avoid everything that's hard and be the butter knife, right. And so what's going to get the job done here. And what I'm hoping that by cloud does is like that they don't back down. And again, I fully believe that they are so passionate, and they are so ready to fight. Like that has nothing to do with the work. Right. I'm hoping that they're willing to be lightning rods for the folks who come to challenge them on this, because I'm not challenging them on this. I'm asking them to do it better. I'm coming in and I'm like this sharpening stone, and I'm coming up and I'm gonna hit them. And if they like pull away from it, then I know that their butter knife and they don't want to work. Right. And they don't want to work with, like, us or or whoever's out there.

So unnecessary friction. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. So I have a feeling they'll, they'll take that on. So we'll see that's a work in progress as a lot of a lot of this stuff is

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You know, it's, it's so easy to fall back on, like, what what you know, on to doing what's easy, and it's so easy for me to come in there and step in and say, Oh, you guys are doing a great job and like, try to sugarcoat it. Yeah, and I can be I mean, I could be an asshole, but there's no need to be an asshole here. Right? It's to come in. And just like I said, just let's let's do this better. Let's do this. Intentionally. Let's do this without causing more harm to the community.

I hear you. Okay. Okay. Moving on a little bit. I want to talk about committees in general. Yeah. I know. You're a committee guy. I'm in committee. Oh, my goodness, I observe a ton of them. You participate in it? Like when did our family see us? Right. So, so thanks for doing that. By the way. I know that that's an often unsung work, but it's really important. I've been sort of ever since. I mean, even before George Floyd, there was the Ferguson stuff and the ratio, Williams Avenue which was thing I stepped in pretty royally personally and learned a lot from for over over a decade now. I've been sort of observing progress we make right like we the the broader community, what is the city doing? What are activists doing? What are advocacy groups doing? What is the media doing? What am I doing what is like Portland doing all these things? Seeing if we're actually learning these lessons, or more importantly, are we inputting them into our work and is the product that we create changing, right. And so one of the things that's like just that I noticed the most partly because it's kind of easy is when I'm in these committee meetings, especially now with Zoom rooms, and they're all online, you just see this, like Brady Bunch style of tiles on the screen. And it's really easy to kind of just do the glance assessment and be like, How wide is my screen right now? How old? Are these people in general? What am I looking at here? And it's been kind of fascinating to watch. So I've got this whole folder full of like screenshots that I've been taking of committees over time. And it's talking about friction and progress being difficult. Like, there's still some I mean, I was just on one actually, it was a metro committee, the transportation policies alternative committee, it was basically all older and white. Right. So there's a lot of work to do. And I just wonder, as someone who talks to people about these issues, and works a government agency, and is in a lot of committees, like, how are you seeing that? Can you speak a little bit to like, why that's hard to change? And why we're three years into this, and we're not seeing these committees look different for the most part yet?

Yeah, yeah, that's fair. You know, I'm glad you so I was I was, I'll be totally honest, I was royally stumped by this, as I'm thinking about this. Because because this is, this is like, the thing that staring us in the face, and, you know, it's the elephant in the room, and many spaces where you hop in, and, and now everyone seems to be emboldened to say, like to express our personal feelings about like, like, like, they're bringing in their own personal views, and they could be pretty radical. And sometimes they're pretty. Oh, goodness, you know, it's like sandpaper. And, and for whatever reason, they think that it's appropriate to bring these things into the spaces that are supposed to be fairly politically neutral, right. And so they're already putting those out there right away. And so you're already feeling like, okay, these folks, and in general, it tends to be white bodied folks are already on the defensive, because it's already about taking care of themselves. And what I have seen, and I'm not, I'm not using this as justification for why you don't see more diversity breaking into committees is, is there some is there is a rhetoric is in the bipoc communities is like, we're trying to take care of ourselves, right? And we're trying not to expend energy, where it's like beating our heads against the wall. Right. Like, like, I will tell you folks are like asking me, Are you trying to change the world will and I said, you know, what I remember is the whole Is that is that is that climate movement, the Think globally, act locally, that is exactly what I try to practice. Because Jonathan, at the end of the day, if I can make my pod I'm see I'm not even talking about community. But if I can make my pod even a little bit better, before I die, then that's all I needed. And I think you're seeing more and more of that from folks.

So So you're saying even though we have these government agencies who have put out these really strong statements about you know, I mean, the City of Portland, for example, the transportation department, which has a lot of committees, they've said, equity is our North Star, and they are talking about racial equity in a lot of ways when they say that, and they're saying this really strong rhetoric about their commitment to racial justice. And then you're saying like the fact that their committees don't reflect that yet three years on from like, the biggest protests around this stuff we've seen for a generation, it's, uh, you're saying that that's kind of a part of the part of the reason for that is maybe that black and brown folks are just not knocking down their door to be involved? Absolutely. Which is, which makes it tough, because you can have an application period, you can talk to people tell them why it's important, but maybe they that they don't have the energy to expend, and this works is that with your

abs, that is exactly it. That is exactly it. And so I mean, even just before I came to this, to this opportunity in the shed to talk to you today is there's not a day that doesn't go by that I'm not using the words emotional labor multiple times a day, and that is exactly what's happening. Right. And then the other piece, too, is that the processes that we've seen from these committees from government agencies from everyone is so extractive, it's extractive, it's one way street, right? It's not mutually beneficial, you know, and I'm seeing this even now, I think, I just got pinged for from an event organizer through the Bikepark P, and w. DMS and said, Hey, I'm putting on three events, and we're trying to make them more diverse, we would love to hear it's like, what I hear is someone who's looking to extract information, like in like, extract intellectual capital for me, right? And I'm like, where's I mean, where's the compensation here? Where's the stipend? Where's the whatever, like, where's, you know, and even if it doesn't look like free passes, or something, or money or whatever, whatever that looks like, like, where's the follow through? Where is the follow through on this? And that is what everyone is holding up against. Now, like, that's, that's when they put their shield up. It's like, Nah, all you're doing is extracting. All you're doing is extracting. So, you know, what I tell people is like everything as we move forward, has to be mutually beneficial, non extractive like that's how we move and then Fortunately, that's how it's happening still. I mean, there were folks. You know, I met someone who worked for ODOT, who had the opportunity to say, hey, you know, we're finally doing these, these community outreach events. And we've never paid people for an event that is a problem in itself, right? Or anything at the state level, like they were never paying anyone for their time. They're just, Hey, show up, show up and give it to us. And so now that that's what these committees are doing, right? Oh, totally. Yeah. I mean, I had the same I had the same experience when I sat on the over d i committee for a little bit. And, and we and someone threw out there that like, you know, what, everyone who serves on the DEI committee, particularly the bipoc, folks to get more folks to get in here. Like we should give them a free over membership. That thing's 40 bucks a year. And someone said, whoa, whoa, whoa, literally said, whoa, whoa, whoa, I think we should talk about this. We're talking about $40 In one year, right. I shut my camera off, said this was ridiculous and walked away and left the meeting running like. So there.

I mean, I yeah, I want to get to that next. But to this point about committees and paying, I can hear what you're saying about obrah Oregon bicycle racing Association committee, to put a point on the ODOT piece of that they're having a bit of a debate and within their committees in terms of if they can like legally, how it would work to pay people to be in these committees. This is a two and a half billion dollar a year agency. Yeah. And I mean, I don't even know what to say to their credit, but they are talking about the payment issue. I've literally heard it in the last couple of months, like on their on their pedestrian bicycle advisory committees or the statewide one. They're talking about it, but doesn't seem super urgent, except from the activist and the volunteer members of the committee that are asking for it. They're urgent, but the agency itself, I feel like they're kind of they're like, Oh, we're talking to illegal we're talking. It's like the structure doesn't even exist to make these payments ago, very, which is really an interesting thing in terms of the system itself, how it just literally is blindsided by this concept that you would pay people for their labor to help you make your stuff better, anyway.

Yeah, no, I mean, that's, I mean, that's a great point. And that's, that's really what it is. So like the structure already existed, for them, to not be able to do these things right to them to just like, continue to marginalize and continue to be extractive Yeah, right.

I'm a big fan of, of people that sit on these committees, like, I don't know unionizing or something like, over the years, I've encouraged advocates, I mean, behind the scenes, none of this really happens publicly. But like, there's been several occasions where I've had discussions with pretty high profile advocates saying, where I'm like, why are you even on that committee, all you're doing is helping them do something, let's say for a project that you don't agree with, you should probably walk away or like step into your power, that of what's happening here that this is a transaction where you're helping someone who you ostensibly oppose, but they're using you to move their stuff down the field. So it's kind of a broader conversation to about where the power is in these committees. And yeah,

I mean, it's honestly analogous, like working for a nonprofit, right? Because they're asking for that passion. Tax.

True. True, right. Yeah. So I mean, so I'm gonna go back to Oregon bicycle racing Association, a little bit here. The racing bikes has been traditionally probably like the epicenter of the sort of like exclusive wealthy white part. racing bikes and slash bike shops is has been I mean, cash. We've been talking about that bike Portland, probably 15 years ago, we were talking about how, how tough it is, we had a woman who were you know, Ellie blue worked for us. And she wrote about going into a bike shop as a woman. I mean, so the bike shop gear racing side of this has always been like the tip of the spear when it comes to like being in a place that's not welcoming and inclusive to people of color. And they've, you know, obrah specifically has rode through some pretty rough waters in the past few years. They had a writer in a race, they had to discipline this person for for having a Halloween costume that a swastika on it, at 1.1 of their board members was accused of being anti trans and ended up leaving the organization. It was this huge thing. And then in June 2020, so a month after the George Floyd stuff started to the protest started the the board of obrah put out a statement saying that they intentionally they wanted to have more people of color, participate in their events and, you know, become members. Their actual quote was, quote, we continue to fall short of supporting this vision in our outreach and support of cycling with communities of color, specifically black communities. That's what Obama said. Yeah. One of the things they did was a created a Diversity Equity and Inclusion committee. And you were on that committee, right? Absolutely. Yeah. So what what did that committee do?

Um, I would love to know also, you know, and I say that sarcastically and you know, through through some resentment and so on this committee, this committee in my haste, so here's so here's another piece to that we find in, in marginalized excluded communities is that sometimes when someone opens the door and asks us for something, we are so quick. And then when we get there, we realize, oh, you know what, I'm doing a lot of extra work for nothing, I'm not getting compensated for this. I'm not seeing the benefits of this. And that's what happens. So we hopped into this space, we hopped in this space, there were some folks of us, some folks of color that I actually convinced to come in here, and we stepped into the space. And we're like, Okay, we're here. And then oh, and we're going to be the co chairs. Now this whole committee, and then I stopped them thought and went, Wait, like, this is this is like free labor for obrah. This is free labor for obrah. There we are. We are people from from varying backgrounds, from communities of color, and they are asking us what the DEI committee should be doing. Which feels very backwards, right? It feels like you know, and in hindsight, what really should have happened was that obrah continue to do that internal work, where they're hiring consultants who are coming in there, and like, and honestly, crushing them and rebuilding them back up and really getting to want to weed out the folks who were unwilling to do the work, and then to like to bring up the people who were willing to do the work, and then they frame what they needed to do. And then guess what, they shouldn't have a dei committee. Like that was I think that was the problem. So when you asked me what we did, I don't know what we did. We shouldn't have had a dei

committee, because it should have just been baked in.

I mean, that's yes. For everyone. Right here. You're

saying like you have a committee? I mean, right. We don't have a, I mean, to put it into the terms that I am in which like, we don't have like a car driving committee. Right, we have the bike committee, right, these agencies, and that's, I would assume that's kind of what you're getting at. It's like, that mean, like, that's because bikes don't can't stand on their own within the institutional culture. So you have to create this committee, which is partly window dressing for the community to think you're doing something about it, right. But if it was, it was really baked into the DNA DNA of the organization's culture. It would just, you wouldn't necessarily need it. Is that what you're saying? Yeah.

And honestly, that's that kind of work takes time, right? That kind of work takes times. I mean, even even when I look at my own agency, we've got a DI committee and we all talk about are not di committee, but a DI department. And someday you're like, this would be great if there was no di department because it's all baked in. And that takes a lot of work. So I totally own the fact that we, that me, myself, like jumped into being on the DI committee and then realizing, Oh, this is not what Ober needed, Ober needed to do more work, and just keep at it, and then set up set themselves up. So that way, when folks in the community, particularly marginalized, bipoc, folks can say, hey, this is what we need, that they were ready to act on that because as a dei committee, we were already trying to, I mean, as we were trying to find our identity and define who we were, we were already starting to throw things like throw some things back at Ober, and say, Hey, here's some ideas and like, Okay, well, we'll have to run that by, you know, the promoters, oh, we'll have to do this. It's just like, okay, so. So what I mean, what was the purpose of bringing us together? What was the purpose of convening here, right? If, if you're asking us to offer you these suggestions, but you kind of hem and haw on everything, right? Like, we don't need you to get defensive. We just need you to take it. Right.

Yeah. And I'm hearing this theme. Yeah. Several times in our conversation today, where there's good intentions, yeah, they're statements. There's a goal. But then there's not, not the real work. Or even enough friction, right to sharpen the blade. Sometimes that friction is not something as an agency, you could opt into purposefully, a lot of times that friction turns because it's a controversy. You didn't mean to have happened or something. But there's also not the the work. The more strategic intentional, uncomfortable work sometimes that's being taken so that I feel like in each sort of like, in each section of questions, each section of things we've talked about, it's almost been a similar answer. So it kind of brings me to not not a similar answer, but a similar theme in terms of like, the follow through not being there, the real work not happening. And I and sort of as I, as I wrap up a bit, I wonder, you know, I'd love to hear from you. Just on a broader level. Getting back to the initial question of why I kinda was wanting to have this conversation is like, what's the Portland bike slash transportation scene? How much progress have we made in the last three years as a community on these issues?

Oh, that's a that's a wonderful question. I for as connected as I feel like I am at times. I feel like I'm pretty disconnected because I'm taking care of Friends and family, and that friends and families the bike puppy and there'll be a group, right? So where are we at with that? Like where are we at with the equity work in the, in the bike community at large. I'm reflecting a bit on the vibe from the Portland trophy cup series. And the awesome work that you know, I Orion and, and Christy and Clint did there. They really showcase the joy of just just having, like, different walks of life at the races and taking away a barrier. Right. Like so. To me, that is probably the best that has been the best indicator, like visually, and, and on like an emotional and social level of where we are as a community. I think I think we have made a great stride. I think we do we have made a great stride has it hasn't hit all of the other places. No, no. And, and I want to call out to the fact that he had like this was bike racing that we're talking about here, right? Have we have we hit folks at like mountain biking, where that happens to be probably one of the hardest places for any marginalized community to break into, because of the cost because of the need to like transport yourself to someplace, right. And then and then the layers on top of that of just like access to the wilderness like all of those other pieces. Right. But what I'm talking about this vibe that we had at the polling trophy cup, and the joy that we found there, right, so I'm gonna hold that. I don't I don't know that I'm answering your question. Well, and I don't know that I've got a pulse on like what the rest of the community is. But I do feel like that for many folks and for many communities as we've hunkered down during the quarantine, and they've started to find strength in these in these like pods. Like they're now coming out in groups are now coming out in force. And at times, like they have to come out by themselves. It's like, okay, well, none of my friends want to go for a run or want to go for a bike ride. So I'm gonna go up by myself. And like, to your point, you're like, Hey, I'm starting to see more people of color out here.

They get the strength in the group, enough strength to go outside the group. Oh, my

goodness, like, I can't even believe the femmes that in our group who literally went from like doing these seven or eight mile chin bonus outside rides, to all of a sudden they're doing like 2040 mile bikepacking trips. Where did that happen? Like, where did they get that strength from? Like, I don't even care. That's awesome. That's fantastic, right? Yeah, yeah.

So you're saying yeah, the progress at the Portland trophy Cup, the PDX trophy Cup, the local cyclocross race. I liked that. I felt that too. Just seeing some of the coverage and went out there a couple nights. You're saying that that's, that's an example of a sign of progress in the community of welcoming a, a more diverse demographic than we would have previously seen in years past. Yeah.

And a couple things I would say what was really amazing was because trophy cup hadn't come back since 2019. And this was his first year back, all of a sudden, we showed up, and I kid you not, I think we probably knew 90% of the bipoc folks there. And so it was like, hey, there's that person. And there's that person and I had no idea. You know, back in 2019, I would never have connected with any folks like any of the black and brown folks who showed up. And then to like, what really came up for me there. And then what comes up in bipod, P and W events and these other events, where we're starting to see marginalized communities like really, really connect and collect and just, like, just emit the energy that they have, is that we we are basking in enjoy, right? We're basking in joy, because I don't I don't know if this like vibes with you, or vibes with the listeners, folks, but like a relationship or a connection in communities, interpersonal, whatever, built on trauma, like we've had for so many years is not one worth sustaining and won't sustain. But connections built in joy, built an adventure built an exploration built in laughter. Like those are the ones that will sustain and that's what we're getting. Like we're getting to laugh. We're getting to relax our soul shoulders. The knots in our stomachs are like loosening because they're not having a code switch. And we're getting to just be right.

And I saw a lot of that in the in the pits. Oh my god. Yeah, the team 10 area. So what is can you share anything about why you think that did happen at the portlet trophy cup events? Do you know anything that they did specifically in case there's folks listening that put on those kinds of events? Yeah, for can I say anything? Absolutely.

Oh my goodness. Yeah. I want to I want to prop up the work that the trophy cup folks did. I want to prop up the works that the folks at hifi sound cycling components do and and that piece is it is it is the most like basic, easy low barrier to takeaway to take away like, like the price, right? It's to take away to take away an entry fee to take away like that most basic thing and like no one should have to ask, hey, what can we do for you for any group, right? Take away that bottom thing. And that's what they did. Like they took that away. They they were behind the scenes advocates for us, they never questioned anything. They never tokenized us, right? So trophy cup hifi sound cyclic opponents, like these folks never like use their social media to say, here's what we do. And here's what we did. Look at how great we are not once, if we worked on anything together, it was always a communication, right? So it was like an intentional propping up and stepping back. I mean, it's happening now. Because the money that they got through the inspiring diversity grant from prosper Portland, this is Hi Fi sound cycling components. Like we laid out a budget for what we're going to do. And as we're just sort of course correcting in bipoc, P and W. It is like, Yes, that's what you should do.

That sounds what that's like, that's what sounds right for you like, and then we'll we'll spend the money that way. You know? So it's like, it's it's not questioning what we're doing and being sort of silent partners and all of this. Right. Cool. Yeah, yeah.

A good example. Is there anything else that we didn't, haven't talked about yet that you want? You want to say?

Yeah, I'm grateful for this opportunity to talk. And I'm looking forward also to hearing if you get the opportunity to talk to other folks in the community who are connected to, you know, to bipoc communities, whether it's through cycling, or there's, you know, just pedestrian access anything around Micromobility any of those things, and particularly, like, I would love to encourage you to, to reach out to folks with disabilities who are also dependent on using, you know, cycling or anything like that, using mass transit or just like, you know, as pedestrians like moving through the space.

Yeah, we didn't get a chance to plug all the great work. You're doing Oh, accessible trails and stuff. So I'll put that link in the show notes for sure. And I'll definitely have you back. But thank you will Cortez for coming in?

Oh my goodness, Jonathan. Thanks for having me. Thanks, everyone for listening.

Be sure to check our show notes for links and resources mentioned in this episode. The bikeportland Podcast is a production of pedal town Media Incorporated. It is made possible by listeners just like you if you're not a subscriber yet, please become one today at bikeportland.org/support. You can listen to more episodes and find out how to subscribe at bikeportland.org/podcast. Our music for this episode was provided by the podcast hosts.com and elite to the podcast maker. Find your own free music podcast over at the podcast host.com/free music and I'm your host Jonathan Maus. Until next time, thanks for listening and I'll see you in the streets.