Tampa SEO Training Academy's Steve and Justin Scott discuss the founding and evolution of their family-run SEO business. Beginning as a website designing endeavor in 1996, the Academy has transitioned to provide a comprehensive suite of SEO services coupled with personalized training programs.

The discussions also highlight how they constantly adapt to changing times, including the recent pivot to more digital operations in light of the Covid-19 pandemic.

Justin talks about using his business degree to aid in problem solving and sales while Steve emphasizes the importance of learning to work on the business and not in it.

There is a strong theme of creating a nurturing work environment that aligns with the principles of a family business throughout the conversation.

Their conversation provides a masterclass into understanding corporate and entrepreneurial cultures, sales, learning from mistakes, and the constantly evolving world of SEO. Whether you're new to SEO or looking to pick up some strategy tips from a longstanding practitioner, this is a must-listen!

Contact Steve and Justin through their website at https://stevescottseo.com/ or call 877-736-7361.

00:00 Introduction and Welcoming the Guests

00:16 The Origin Story of Tampa SEO Training Academy

00:58 The Evolution of the Business Model

03:52 Justin's Journey into the Family Business

05:58 The Value of Training and Personal Growth

14:58 The Unique Approach to Customer Service

17:48 Creating a Family Atmosphere in the Workplace

23:58 The Importance of Appreciating Clients

24:47 Embracing New Ideas and Innovation

25:44 Empowering Employees and Encouraging Growth

26:06 Leveraging Technology for Efficiency

27:05 The Power of Trust and Delegation

27:41 Creating a Blame-Free Environment

29:18 The Impact of a Strong Corporate Culture

31:01 The Value of Learning from Mistakes

33:17 The Role of Family in Business

36:40 The Journey of Learning and Growth

38:09 The Importance of Understanding Business Numbers

40:18 Working on the Business, Not in It

45:19 The Power of SEO and Online Presence

Today we are celebrating Steve and Justin

Scott of Tampa SEO Training Academy.

Hi, Steve.

Hi, Scott.

Welcome.

Hey, John.

Hey, Connie.

How you doing?

How are ya?

Doing very well.

Yeah, very well.

We're really curious about, about you guys

and your business, your family business.

So where did it get started?

How did how did Tampa SEO

Training Academy start?

Because I see stevescottseo.

com behind Steve.

Yeah.

It actually started for me back in 1996

where I was I was working in the computer.

Well, maybe go back a

little further than that.

Like I first got my first

computer when I was 16.

So it was like 1982.

It was a Vic 20.

And I knew I liked it a lot.

I had an affinity for it.

And when I got into the real world, I

started to mess around with computers

and I when the World Wide Web came about,

I thought, well, this is pretty cool.

I like the concept of this.

I was a marketing major in college

already had marketing in my blood had the

computer background before that, and so

I got into designing websites and then,

component to the, the new, where you've

got the online training, but then are

there like live Q and A's or something?

Yeah.

So in fact, the, the new model, we

were just actually running through the

different levels that we're going to be

doing, but the Tampa SEO is more of the

agency and training and so on, right?

Live in person consulting and so on.

The the video on demand training

is going to come with, depending

on what level you're at.

either like email support or weekly Q and

A's weekly email, , ask an expert emails.

We're going to be doing monthly reviews

of websites so that everybody gets a

chance to kind of ask questions, see other

people's questions and their responses.

And then those will, of course,

we'll record all of that.

So like you guys will be recording

this and then we'll share that with

everybody else so they can see how.

Changes that some people are needing

or how they need to implement.

They'll be able to now see how

others are doing it and how, what

recommendations we're making to others

so that rather than asking the same

question again, they can go implement.

There'll be a live Q and A's as

well for certain membership levels.

Monthly I do what I call an ask

anything session, ask the expert,

and it's like the third Monday of the

month or second Monday of the month.

I forget which one it is, honestly.

And it just, it's an open call, right?

You get 15 minute call, just gimme

a call, pick up the phone, ask me

a question on, on a problem you're

having, a question you're having.

I've had, , students ask

me how to get started.

I've had people who were like, Hey,

I'm leaving the corporate world

and want to start my own business.

, how do I get started?

Or or it's just, Hey, , can

you look at my website?

I don't know what's going

on, why it's not working.

Right.

? So it kind of just depends.

But so certainly that, and then I also

have consulting hours that we offer too.

So those can be anything from, hey,

I'll teach you how to do it live, or you

be the driver, I'll be the navigator,

kind of get you around, show you how

to do things, give you homework for the

next the next day or the next meeting.

So yeah, we offer, like I said, monthly

services, this sort of consulting,

which is kind of, , a work together.

And then the on demand or in person,

the in person is available for group

sessions, but the on demand is, it's

really more like you said, more the sign

of the times, , we started to see a lot of

people not wanting to put butts in seats

as they used to call it back in the day.

And then when COVID hit, obviously

that was like an immediate no more,

you know, it ain't happening anymore.

And now I'm starting to see a

bit more of, of people requesting

in person live training, but.

It's a smaller segment of the market

these days that want to go and sit in

the classroom, want to be in a room, and

everybody wants everything right away.

They don't want to wait.

They don't want to, they want to

get it free or cheap or whatever.

So we had to adapt, as you said, you

got to pivot as the times call for it.

And that's what this, the newer

brand is, is trying to do.

I see.

So, yeah.

So, you know, Justin, how did

you get involved in all this?

Well, I mean, I've, I've been

around it since I was a child.

I mean, like it's, surprisingly, he

would always be upstairs and I'd hear

him talking to different clients.

I'm like, what is he talking about?

I had no idea.

Like me, myself, I'm

like, what is this CEO?

I always thought it was CEO

too, or just something before

I even got into the business.

But I was in college

and not even a year ago.

Excuse me.

And I was like, what do I want to do?

I just, every, every, grad

grad asked that question.

They're like, what are, what's next?

And he was, dad was like, you

could always come work for me,

and I was like, you know what?

I didn't want to jump into the

corporate world right away.

Definitely could have gotten a job.

100 percent knew that had offers.

I was just like, I don't

want to do that right away.

It just wasn't on my mind.

That was like, I was like, I can't be.

Okay.

Getting micromanaged, just

answering to somebody right away.

I just couldn't do it personally.

I had never been like that ever.

So I was like, he was like, make

your own hours, make your own calls.

You can make some money.

I can help the business out as a whole.

And I'm like, that

sounds like a great idea.

So I started to learn a little

bit more about the company, about

what it was, about what we do as

a whole and how we help people.

And it really has been tremendous

since January when I started, I.

I've learned a lot.

I'm still learning but I'm able to

hold a conversation with people,

anybody, honestly, and talk about SEO

because I understand it more so than

I think a lot of other people do.

So that's kind of how it got started.

It's going great right now.

I mean, I like, I like, I met you

guys, you great people through RGA

and just through the networking events

because I've been calling people on

the phones all day talking, which I

like, honestly, some people obviously

don't like cold calling warm and just.

Following up with people, I personally

do speaking with clients, but, getting

out there, getting, put boots on the

ground type of thing, meeting new people

showing people what we could do for them.

I really enjoy and that's why, I think

I, I, I like what I'm doing right now.

So definitely going to keep doing

what I'm doing, you know, sales

portion of temp SEO, and then we'll

just see where we go from here.

So that's how I got started.

With the business itself.

Yeah.

And what's been great too is like I've

had other sales people before and the

role has intimidated a lot of people,

because we do do so much and there's

so much to know, and even experienced

sales people I've had come in.

lasted a month or so and just

couldn't, they couldn't do it.

They couldn't handle it.

But Justin has always been very

tenacious about he doesn't want

to, he wants to make sure he's got

it, and everything that he's done

ever, like since a child, really.

And which has been fantastic for, for me

in many ways, for him in lots of ways.

And when he's and he always had that sort

of You know, he's very charming, you know,

he gets it from his father, of course.

And he, he's very personable.

Again, he gets from his father.

And so, he really, he's,

he's good like that.

He's always been like that.

Even as a child, I would hear

this, we, we both are in CrossFit.

It's been about, what,

eight or nine years now.

And, he's 21, so 13, 14 years

old, he's in CrossFit with adults.

The adults would come up to me

separately and they'd be go,

you've got an amazing kid there.

Like he's so charming.

He's so personable.

He's so this.

And some of the dads would be like,

man, I hope my kid turns out like yours.

And, he was just always had that,

of course, as a father, you couldn't

ask for anything better to hear.

So when he asked me, he finally

I was never one to push either.

I didn't push sports on him.

If he wanted to play a

sport, we'll do a sport.

He wanted to do this.

We'll do this.

It was always like,

what do you want to do?

What, what, what drives you?

What fuels you?

And so when he came to me, he said,

I don't know what I want to do.

I know I want to do, I want to

do a, I want to do a personal

coaching and training, but you

know, I want to make some money too.

I don't know what to do.

I said, look, sell, sell for me.

I need someone to answer the phones.

I need someone to go out and

ground, but ground and pound.

I need someone to follow up with people.

I don't have time.

I'm managing clients and managing the

people that are managing the client.

I don't have the time for this.

I said, you can make some, I said,

I'll pay you to call me calls.

I'll pay you to get

people on appointments.

I'll pay you to get people on a

newsletter and I'll give you a

commission on people that you sell.

And then you set your own hours.

This way you can go to the gym when

you want to go, you can you can work

on your CPT that let, let this be your

main job and let that be your side

hustle until the point where like the

side hustle becomes, you know, maybe

they balance out a little bit and, but

You're on your own, do your own thing.

And he's always been super self motivated.

So I never had to get on about

grades or, about, about classes.

I never had to get on about, like

cleaning his room or anything like that.

It was just, he just very self driven

and he had the personality for sales.

And I got him some training

from a professional sales guy.

And I asked the guy separately,

I'm like, How's he doing?

What do you think?

And he is he's a natural.

This kid's got it.

He's and how was that?

I learn easily.

That's what I thought.

Learn easily.

It's like I just absorb

everything that I like.

I feel like a lot of people, when

they learn a new skill, it's, it just

goes straight through them, honestly.

Or they have to obviously write it down.

They have to read it a couple times.

And I'm that same way, but like when I'm

learning new information, I'm like, I,

I, I soak it up like a sponge, like I

just, and then I implement it right away.

Even if I make a mistake, I know

why I made that mistake and then

I can move forward with, all

right, I need to do this next.

I keep doing that.

So, like he said, the, and the

sales training has been great too.

Just as a whole, I'm very grateful for

what he's been able to do for me too.

So it's all been good,

all been good and well.

And he's always been good.

Like whenever, whenever I needed to,

whenever I, whenever I put training

in and whatever it was, whether it

was coaching on baseball, whether it

was to, up his scores on his sat to

get the bright futures kind of thing,

whatever I invested in him, it always

paid back in one way or another.

So I knew it was a no brainer

to get him, coaching from a

sales professional, because.

Like I knew it's going to turn into

money for him, for me, for everybody.

So I never hesitated on that.

I believe in training, obviously, right?

I mean, it's what I do.

So I certainly want to get, that

kind of people from something else.

And he has just been, it's been amazing.

Like he's learned so much and he's

always been, I always call him a pitbull.

Sometimes when it's things I don't

want to be bothered with, he's

pitbulling me for money or for this

or that, like he won't let it go.

But in sales.

That's a great to have to, to not let

things go to be on it, to be on top of it.

And he's always been good like that.

And it just translated very well for me.

And he could literally

go sell for anybody.

I know that there'd be no problems,

consistent and persistent.

Exactly.

Yeah.

That's what I say about SEO.

That's how you get good SEO rankings.

You be consistent.

Yes.

Exactly.

Clear and consistent message, right?

And that's wonderful.

Wow.

Well, so I mean, one of my questions

that I like to ask is what What sets

you apart from the, 20 competitors

that's that's more in a coaching,

setting than than in our podcast.

But what I'm hearing, right away, you've

been doing SEO since I'm not, I didn't

even know the term SEO existed in the 90s.

So that you've been doing it that long.

I would, I would think that's one of

the big differentiators in your company.

And, and that you pair the, you marry

the training with the, the agency part

of it so that people can, you can give

people a spectrum from completely done

for you to completely do it yourself.

It's brilliant.

Well, it even turned into more than

that, because the idea of getting of

starting SEO was again, to get that

monthly residuals, the training part,

like I said, that kind of came out of.

When I got out of college, I went to this

company that was doing training around

all those major companies in Manhattan.

I mean, American Express, Pfizer,

Revlon I mean, you name it.

Any Fortune 500 company

in Manhattan, I was at.

UN, Daily News Port Authority of New

York, New Jersey, I mean, Progressive.

I mean, everything.

We were at teaching them how to do stuff.

So I had this training.

background.

Then I got into a bit more

corporate world for a while.

And then I went out on my own

doing the SEO side and the web

development side of things.

And then when the training idea came

out, I said, wow, I'm going back to

what I loved because I love teaching.

I love seeing eyeballs and, the

ideas pop and now I'm teaching

this stuff that I've done.

So I know how to do, and so

that became really interesting.

What was super interesting about

it, though, is a lot of times

people would come to my class.

They'd spend, you know, it was a

2, 500 class for a week, right?

Five days, about 500 a day.

And people would come and pay me 2,

500, see what's involved, go home

and go, Hey, can you do this for me?

Because I'm trying to

run a business over here.

I don't have time.

I mean, there's a lot of work here.

Now, obviously, you know what you did?

You just told me five days worth

of material over eight hours a day.

It's clear.

You know what you're doing.

Can you do it for me?

So a lot of my students became clients

and if they weren't clients said

that was gonna happen, you know They

become consulting clients sometimes

where they're trying to help their

their clients, but they're struggling.

I don't know what to

do Can you help me out?

Sure.

They get on an hour call I

pay for a consulting fee and

we'd help them out right away.

Great, so I became a resource and

then We started teaching Other

competitors in the area, right?

So there's people that send

their people to me to learn.

There's people that I've taught whole

marketing companies in Tampa, their

whole team, how to do SEO, right?

And they're basically competitors, right?

They're basically doing the same

thing I'm doing, but they came to

me to learn how to do it right.

So I teach them.

And then of course, when they need help,

they come to me for, for other stuff.

So that's generally the

differentiator I use.

The fact that, a, I've

been doing it forever.

I've seen all the changes from

the beginning before the days

of Google, B I got 25 plus years

of experience in the business.

I've been teaching it for 15 years

and I teach your competitors.

Why go to the competitor,

come to the teacher, right?

So, and I, we do all this work also.

And so by offering these sort of

different levels, it really allow us

to cover everybody's needs without

stepping on anybody's totally.

I don't, I'll teach my competitor.

There's plenty of work out there.

It's not it's every company

that's really looking to succeed

needs what I offer and needs.

And there's, there's a ton of

companies out there and I'll

tell you what, in the early days.

SEO did get a bad rep because you had

a lot of these people reaching out

saying, Hey, give us a hundred dollars

and we'll get you 10, 000 links.

So we'll do this.

And, and people would buy into

that, or they'd get, swindled by

somebody and, sold a bill of rights.

That was just not right.

And they would buy in and then

it soured the market for SEO.

People like started to think of the SEO

business as, as scammers or shysters.

And there was plenty of them out there.

But if you knew someone that was

reputable and knew how to do the

job, it may take a little bit longer,

especially nowadays, it takes a lot

longer than it did 15 years ago.

But if you, if you did it right and

did the right thing and follow the

rules, you'd be successful over time.

Like with anything, you know,

most people don't go into

business as successful overnight.

It takes time to.

Get there.

But everybody wants everything

yesterday and they think, if I do

this, I'll get, I'll get there quickly.

And more often than not, Google caught

on penalize those people and they

were in worse shape than, if they had

just done it the right the first time.

So Justin, from your point of view,

how do you present the company?

mEaning that how it

differentiates from other people?

I would definitely say the

customer service hand that

I can't hands down for sure.

A lot of people and a lot of businesses

ship off their SEO work because

it's cheaper to like third world

countries because a lot of people

are doing the work out there, but

there is not the right time zone.

They don't answer them correctly.

They don't know.

Sometimes they don't speak.

English, sometimes.

So that's a big, huge deal.

I've just, I've noticed.

I get calls all the time about trying

to get work even though they don't

know who they're speaking to directly.

So I've just, working with clients

and working with people that want

to come on with us, I've noticed

they've just been screwed in the past.

Just recently, and they're

like, I don't know.

And their, their trust is hard to

get, and I always say, look, let me,

let me earn 5 percent of your trust

and I can show you how we can earn

the 95 percent of it, like seriously.

And so when we, when I present that to

somebody, they're always Questionable

and they're always like, Hmm, but they're

like their, their guard breaks down.

Okay, let me just show them and

let them, let me let them show

me what they can do for me.

And then that opens up a lot of doors.

And I always tell people,

look, call my number.

I give my cell to

everyone that I speak to.

I don't ever give them a business line.

That's big.

I feel like for a lot of people.

So you're not calling a direct center.

You're calling me and I'm

the only one that's going to

speak to the owner directly.

He's my dad.

I can get them on the phone in a call.

If you want something

done, give me a call.

Like seriously, that's how it works.

So that's just how it works in general.

So if you want something done

right away, I tell people either

text me, call me, email me.

I'm going to answer you within an hour.

So that is a big, big deal for people.

Like we'll, we'll have people like if

there's an issue, say I've closed someone.

I've talked to them maybe once, twice

a month, maybe, right, just to kind

of see how things are going, because

I like to check in with people too,

even though they're working with Steve,

I still like to check in to see how

things are being done, I'm like, look

we have 11 people on staff, right, but

they're all doing different things.

I don't, and sometimes, our social

media manager might be talking to

the client one day and then our, our

just our assistant might be talking

to them the other day or bookkeeper.

There's a lot of, there's a lot of

moving parts, but I'm always the same

person that's going to be reaching

out to them every single time, right?

So we don't, like I said, we

don't have any other sales reps

right today in the business.

It's just me, right?

So you know who to contact and who's

going to give you the right information.

And if I don't have an answer,

I know who to ask like this,

where I know where to go.

So that's kind of how I represent

the company and make people

understand that you can trust us.

And we do really good work since we've

been around since 97 before I was born.

It's just Give us a chance, it's like

you might as well, it doesn't hurt

and we're local to, you're talking

family, I, I came up in a business.

I worked in Manhattan, as I mentioned,

but I also work and, and the people that

I met in that first company, I worked

at the training organization are still

some of my best friends to this day.

And then I moved to a

financial products company.

Where I worked for seven years

doing automation and stuff.

And some of those people are

still some of my best friends.

So in fact, they just had a big

reunion party in Manhattan, like last

week, there was like 40 people there.

So I had gotten to really,

really good companies that just

felt like very family oriented.

Like you knew these people.

And then the last company, as I mentioned,

the one, the one with the, you said

the reunion, they were, I mean, it was

money, we were, it was, it was called

general refinancial products, which is

the financial part of general reinsurance.

Which insures insurance companies.

So if you could imagine how much money

insurance companies make, think of how

much money the folks that ensure the

insurance companies are pulling in.

So this company had gobs of money,

cheated everybody like a human in the

days where you had three, you know,

when most people had three days of

sick days or, number of days, they

were like, if you're sick, stay home.

We don't want you coming in and

getting everybody else sick.

If you need a time off, you wanted to

take a vacation day, on a, on a Friday

and a Monday, have a long weekend.

Just just let us know.

And they always treated you like a

person and not Hey, you're on salary.

It was like, and what happened

is it fostered such a good

wanting to be there, right?

The idea of, it wasn't so much a job.

It was more like, like a family.

And it felt like we got

free lunch every day.

We had, it was Business cash.

We're in a corporate company.

It was business casual all the time.

You had massive, amazing Christmas

parties with like lobster and crab and,

and we were right across the rink from

the ice skating rink where they do the

tree lighting ceremony in Manhattan.

So every year a Christmas party was

right there the day of the tree lighting.

So we have, and it just felt so like

you were treated like an individual

as a person and not a number.

And I wanted to represent

that in my business too.

And the people on my team, and I've had a

bunch of them with me seven, eight years.

In fact, one just she's my,

my bookkeeper, office manager.

She has been working remote since COVID

and every now and then she'll come up.

So she's, Hey, I had a

doctor's appointment nearby.

How about I stop in for

a, for a cup of coffee?

And we just sat and we chilled for an

hour and a half, had some coffee, talk

business, talk life, talk to, whatever.

And, and I just want people to understand

if you're sick, you can't work today, go,

go take a nap go it'll be there tomorrow,

just go take a nap take care of you if

you're good, then you're better to work,

if you're crappy, and you feel crappy,

and you're forced to do something, you're

not gonna do as good a job, you're maybe

making mistakes, and I'd rather Work.

You take the time and

do what you need to do.

Clients will wait.

They're not going anywhere.

And if I lose a client because, there

was a death in the family and the guy

that was doing your job couldn't do it.

Well, I don't want you as a client.

Go, I'll find someone else.

Bye bye.

I don't need that.

So.

And so I've been very real

about that with my clients.

I'm very open about what's going on,

open with what's, I may, I encourage

my team to reach out to clients.

They don't have to come

to me for permission.

I want clients to see that we're

a team, that everybody has a

little input and has a little say.

And then we've also done Like

team meetings, like zoom meetings.

And it gets hard to get

everybody in a room, on a zoom

meeting, pick a date and a time.

And everybody like initially

thinks, Oh, there's another meeting.

Everybody.

And it turned out like, we've done these,

everybody's that was a great meeting.

It was so great to meet everybody.

And so everybody has this initial

whatever, but between those things and a

staff, I started a staff chat room, right?

We're all remote.

But I started a staff chat room, and

it's really just morning, afternoon, hey,

I'm hanging in, how's everybody's day?

And at first people were like, this

is stupid, what are we doing this for?

And over time, it became, hey,

this is, this is how we, this

is how we become together.

This is how we come together a bit more.

And so now, The last one, everybody got

a chance to introduce themselves because

we had a couple of new team members.

Everybody got a chance to talk about

what they do, what their role is.

And then we asked everybody to tell

us a little bit about themselves,

just like who they are, what they

like, what their passions are.

And it turned out we have a couple of

musicians in the group that started

to get together and started sharing

music and started sharing stuff.

We have a couple of writers in the

group that were doing things on

the side that we didn't know about.

And that started some conversations.

And so it brought everybody

a little closer together.

And yeah, so I try to do things like

that to just, it's hard when you're

working remotely to do things like that.

And I think I, I think I mentioned

the last time we spoke, for, for

the holidays last year, um, rather

than giving people a bonus, right.

I mean, sure.

Cash is nice.

Everybody likes cash.

I know Justin likes cash.

But what I tried to do what I tried to

do is I tried to get them something that

they could use that would make their

lives easier or their work life easier.

And also that when they use that,

it brings a good memory, right?

So I got one of my people, I got

two of my people, like a new chair.

Right.

That they could nice chat.

They could sit in.

I let them pick from eight or 10

different chairs that I thought

were good and were nice and were

reasonable, but not like cheapo chairs.

You know what I mean?

I bought somebody else who was working on

a small monitor, a big 27 inch monitor.

I bought someone else a battery backup

because she kept complaining about how,

where she was, her power kept going out

and she was losing work and all that.

So it was little things like that.

And then, It was more about like the

thought that counts kind of a thing.

I mean, the gift is nice, but it was

really more okay, when the power goes

out and our computer doesn't go down,

he's so glad I have that, or when you sit

down on that chair and you go, Oh, it's

got so comfy, so I try to do things like

that to, to, to show people that I care.

I give birthday gifts.

I'll send people amazon

things for birthdays.

I'm so glad to have you on team.

I'm really open about telling people

I appreciate them and I appreciate

what they do and thank you, and

I try to make them see that they,

they're not just an employee.

They're not some staff.

I'm not some consultant.

They're a part of my team.

They're a part of my extended

family and they matter to me.

And that's why I like to have people and

they, and they stay around, they stick

around because they like how they're

treated, they like what they're getting

and, I couldn't, I couldn't be happier.

We've got great, a great team.

Yeah.

I spoke to today, like I was talking

to Steve about how I wanted to send

out cards to our clients saying thank

you for, just thank you for everything.

Some we've had who, how long

has Brothers been with you, Dad?

How long?

It's over 10 years.

Over 10 years.

So there's been a lot, a couple

of clients that have just

been with us for a long time.

And so, been through

bad times, good times.

So I want to say thank you.

And that's why I actually spoke

to Linda Cameron today about

getting some cards together.

So we can send out to all of

them, just, just to say thank you.

Like seriously, it's all I really

want to let them understand

that we appreciate them.

And, even if you don't stay

with us forever, that's okay.

But we just want to let you know

that we, we, we love the work that

we're doing for you right now.

So that's what we try to tell

to, like I said, my coworkers,

his employees, and just the

clients that we work with as well.

Yeah.

When he brought it to me, I was like,

I'll be, I'll be honest with you.

It's not something I

didn't ever really done.

I see people do it.

I feel bad when I get cards

from people and I didn't do it.

And it's not like everybody does it.

I mean, I know that, but I

was like, that's a good idea.

What can we do?

Find out what we can do.

Let's see what we can do.

Cause you know, and I'm

also good about that too.

Somebody comes to me with an idea.

I'm always looking for

the next great idea.

Everybody is.

And you come to me, you present

me an idea that you know,

I'll say, that's a great idea.

Let's do that.

Or, and I'm, I can be very stubborn

at times too, but I always say, Hey,

if you can prove to me that your way

is good or has better, has qualities

that the way I've been thinking about

doing it is, you could show me that

it makes sense to do it your way.

I'll I'm all in.

Let's go do it your way.

Like I'm, I'm, you can change my mind,

but you just proved to me that, that what

you're talking about is worthwhile value.

A lot of times people come to you

with ideas that we've already tried

that don't work for this reason, or

we've thought about it, but maybe

costs are outside of, what we can

do right now or, different reasons.

But I'm always willing to listen

to my team and I tell them all the

time, if you have an idea, if you're

thinking about something, let me know.

And then I'll also tell folks, I'll

regularly ask them, Hey, is there anything

that you're not doing that you'd like to

do more of or that you've seen you want

to have a little bit more experience with?

Let me know, and I'll try

to steer them a little bit.

So a little bit of their time, a little

bit of their, what they're putting in can

go to something, either learning something

new or trying something different.

And that's all becoming a lot more like

with chat GPT and using that integrating

some of that has become sort of like the

next step, my content writers were worried

that they were going to be out of business

with and I'm like, no, no, still need

you, but you know, but this will help you

get where you're going quicker, we can

get more done in the same time, you're

still going to have to wordsmith the heck

out of it and make it make it look good.

But if you can get a good

foundation, a good base, yeah.

To start out with great my

training these days, same thing.

You should take me eight to 16 hours

to pull together like an hour, an hour

and a half worth of actual training.

Now it's about half that time.

And it's not that I'm copying and pasting,

but it's just it's giving me those points.

I'm making sure I don't miss.

It's making sure and I'm like, and

when I get something I can, write

my own words for it or update it.

But it's those kind of ideas that I'm

always looking for, like the next thing.

What's next?

What else can we do?

And, having, I don't know

everything and anybody that

says everything is, is a liar.

I know a lot about a lot,

but as lots, I don't know.

And I have, I have somebody

that's very involved in email

and she's amazing with the email.

So I count on her, she's

Oh, we can do this with you.

I'm like, jazz, this is you.

I'm putting this in you.

I'm going to trust you do what

you think is the best thing to do.

Right.

And I let them do it.

I don't need to micromanage everything.

I showed this things.

I wanted a certain thing or a certain way.

But I was like, do whatever

you think looks good.

Don't, don't worry about what I'm doing.

Do what you want to do.

Let me see what you got.

And the first time she fully did it on her

own, I was like, damn, this looks great.

This is a, I'll send it, like no changes.

And so that again, is part of, I think the

environment that I'm trying to establish.

I got to jump in here.

So I'm going to make a bet and I'm going

to ask Jason, Justin, sorry, Justin,

if, if this is accurate or not, he's not

afraid to let people make mistakes, right?

He will let them make, he will give them

something to do, let them make a mistake.

And if they make a mistake and it goes

completely sideways, they're not fired.

It's okay.

There's not a bunch of blame.

It's just, okay, let's figure out

what, what went wrong and, and fix it.

Am I accurate?

Yeah, there's no, you're exactly right.

There's no blame.

There's no, there's no heart.

There's no, like, why, why

didn't you do it this way?

It's just okay, let's look at it.

Let's, let's, let's see

how we could do it better.

And then, and let's solve

the problem together.

It's not and it's not all on the person.

It's like, it's like, why

didn't you do this for me?

It's, it's okay, maybe we can change a few

things and then we can adjust it together.

Or if, Or he's also confident, like

he said, in, in all our employees

to basically say, look, let's change

a few things and then do it again.

He's not, he's, and then

he'll just look at it again.

He's not, he doesn't have

to, like he says, micromanage

everything that any of us do.

Honestly.

None of us are getting micromanaged, and

we get the work done and we do good work.

So, I mean, if that doesn't tell you

something, anything, I mean, that's,

we were in a good, everyone's in a good

spot whenever in this, in this, In this

business I want to go to work for you.

I want to go to work.

I feel like I'm, I want to at some, at

the end of this, I'm going to want to,

this director's cuts that they do in

movies where the, the director, they

play the movie and the director stops

the movie and says, okay, now notice

this and listen to what he just said.

I feel like I want to go back

through this and do that because

it's did you hear what he just said?

Oh my God.

You're talking about, well,

you had a wonderful experience.

In a good, in a really strong culture,

a corporate culture that was as if

they were running a family business.

And that was, such a stroke of

luck for you, in my opinion.

But you are the right guy, too.

I mean, I can hear that.

I can see that.

So, there's so much here about letting,

figuring out people's strengths,

letting them work at their strengths,

focus on their strengths, not trying

to, force a square peg into a round

hole, and developing people, listening,

being curious, stubborn but curious.

I love that combination, okay, yeah.

I've done this a couple times.

I can throw out the pretty obvious

stuff that won't work, but you

know, I'm, I don't know everything.

That's, there's a security there, a

self confidence there that allows you

to, allow other people to, to, play

with it and try things and, and, the

knowing that you don't know everything.

I think, the fact that you're in

this industry that is constantly

changing helped, support that if you

were in something that, where things

didn't change for 30 years, and then

maybe they invented a new thing.

And then another 30 years, it would be a

lot easier to just get stuck in your ways.

But I mean, this is just like a

master class in culture management.

And the other thing I want to point out

here, one of my pet sayings is that your.

Employees are your best customers.

They basically buy.

Coming back to work every day.

And, and you see that intuitively and you

are, treating them as your best customers.

And, and I just, I want to thank you.

It's funny.

You ask about the, the mistake making.

And I think one of the reasons why

I'm so okay with it is because when I

started out, I was a solopreneur, right?

I did everything.

And you didn't have the internet, really.

I mean, you didn't have, I shouldn't say

You didn't have the, the, the, the vast

quantity of information available, right?

And so, when I was doing this for

people, I had to learn on my own.

And so, I learned by making a ton of

freaking mistakes until I got it right.

And so, I tell people look,

and I'm paying people by the

hour, right, for the most part.

And I'm like, look, if you if you

want to figure something out on

your own, Take a half an hour.

Take an hour.

All I ask is that you don't waste

too much time on something like I

understand the value and looking into

things and learning on your own and

trying and attempting and failing.

But if you get to a point where it's just

not coming together, that's when you want.

I mean, I need you to understand.

Stop.

Ask, because I may have done this a

million times when I go, Oh yeah, you

gotta do this, or I just, I want people

to get the opportunity to learn and

typically the folks that I tend to hire,

they're not always the most experienced.

Right.

They have a little bit of experience,

obviously, but what I found the

people that do best over the years are

the people that can clearly explain

to me that they can figure it out.

They don't, they don't

like, I don't need help.

Like I can always Google it.

Or we, we, we use GTS a lot.

Google that stuff we'll say.

All right.

It's like with, with, with all,

like you can find out anything you

need to find out on the web, right?

You just have to look and you

have to research and you have to,

look at your sources and whatnot.

So I encourage people to do that.

I want them to do that.

I want them to be self, self fulfilling,

self actualized, just figure it out.

And the folks that have always lasted

as long as and done the best in this

business have been able to do that.

And the ones that don't, I can't get it.

I can't figure it out.

They just don't make it.

They just cannot make it and and that's I

think one of the reasons why I encourage

people to make mistakes because I

know you're going to learn from them.

And I do say, but learn from it.

I don't want to see that same

mistake over and over and over again.

The whole fool me once, shame on you,

fool me twice, shame on me kind of thing.

Yeah, I'm okay.

But don't keep making the same mistake.

And if you if you can learn and grow.

Awesome.

That's exactly what I'm looking for.

But it's so funny how you

kind of pick that out.

Yeah, that's gosh, again, the corporate I

want to, focus on the family a little bit.

So the, the, the family has the

opportunity the family business owner

has the opportunity to do what you

talked about in terms of the gifting.

You, you've got a little more, a little

more control over what you spend.

You've got, you've got control over

the budget and, and you can do those

things, but you can also you've got a

mind to hiring, you've got a longterm.

Outlook instead of that,

quarter to quarter management.

And it seems like

corporate is always hiring.

They want to hire a skill, a finished

skill, just, and if the skill set changes

a little bit, the first thing they're

going to do is replace that person

with somebody newer that's got that new

skill set instead of upscaling them.

Right.

Yeah.

And you're the opposite of that.

And that's, I think that's why we

want to celebrate family business.

Well, I come from a

family business, right?

So my dad was a contractor

in Manhattan forever.

And as a kid, I'd go in with him on

the weekends or on those, holiday,

days off, even at five, six years old,

I'd be with dad and I'd be picking

up screws or handing him his hammer

or whatever it was back in the day.

And then as I got a little older, I went.

And I'd be the, the, the kid getting

the coffee or the one dragging the

heavy stuff around for everybody,

the grunt work, nobody else wants

to go for, as they call them.

Right.

And then when I hit 16, I sort

of had a little bit of had one

of these old IBM computers with

the green screens and everything.

And he had a big dot matrix printer

with those, with the green and white

paper and the holes on the side.

And, I said, Hey, dad, let me come in

the office and do some stuff on the

computer for you, and so at 16, I went

in, I started building like some Excel

spreadsheets, not Excel, sorry, Lotus

one, two, three, there was no Excel.

Lotus one, two, three spreadsheets.

And I built a couple of like keyboard,

I learned how to do keyboard commands so

that you can hit like control P for print.

And it would print out all of the.

And then he could put in all the numbers

for hours worked and it would do payroll

and print all the payroll reports for him.

And that's how I got started is

working in my dad's business.

And I love going to work with my dad.

I love spending time with them.

And, we'd go get a cup of coffee or we'd

go get, dinner or lunch or something.

And, it was always, it was always a great.

And my dad and I are super tight.

Me and Justin super tight.

He and my dad are super tight.

You want to pick it up

in the airport today?

Literally.

I did.

Yeah, he did.

Oh, cool.

Wonderful.

So so, so it's been it's been kind of that

whole idea of the family together, has

come down the pipe, basically since then.

And, I know, Justin, if the way he

keeps going, he's never going to

work for anybody either, probably,

or may not work for anybody.

Whether he's working for himself,

or, working with me he's he's able

to self destiny at this point, right?

He's super young, super

eager, super smart.

Right.

Here's a button and and he's gonna,

but, I'm not worried about him.

And I just love the fact that, I was

telling somebody the other day that

it's so nice to have him working with

me to see how he's picking up on the

because he had never had any interest

at all as he was growing up and he's

going to school for, business degree.

And I'm like, I do own a business.

You can come in.

You can look at the bugs.

If you have some suggestions based

on what you're learning that can

maybe help us grow or change.

Let me know.

Come on in.

And he finally was like, what can I do?

And I'm like, you could do this.

He was like, let's give it a shot.

And pretty good since then.

So have you been using your business

degree in the in the business?

Have you got some of that?

Not I mean, definitely.

So, okay, when, when it comes to actual

schooling, I feel like the only the

last year that I was in school, I

actually learned a lot of information.

That's it.

Like everything else.

I was just like, why am I here?

I can do this at home type thing.

I don't know.

But I definitely as for like actual

problem solving and just how you

view your company compared to the

competition, how you can do better.

I definitely am able to do that

and apply that to what I do today.

So that's what I like as well.

I I'm able to use those problems,

solving skills from school and take it

into sales because sales is obviously,

listening, making sure that you're able

to give the customer what they need, what

they want, especially what they want,

because it's all emotion, obviously.

Right.

I'm going to interrupt you there.

Sales done.

Right.

Is listening.

Yes, that's true.

Yes.

But I've learned that to buy

through through men through

mentors, multiple, not just the one

that I'm working with right now.

I think that's been more helpful to

obviously, I'm an advocate for school.

But I think when you work with

somebody closely, and you're able

to ask them questions consistently,

like every day type, like every day,

every week, that's a works for me.

And that's how I learned on a daily

basis, whether it's I read sometimes

I don't read a lot, I read, I

should read more, I listened to a

lot of things by just Reading takes

a lot out of me, or it just does.

But like I said, working with somebody

one on one, I think that's the best way to

actually use my skills every single day.

So that's been helpful.

Nice.

Steve, what one thing that you wish

you had known when you started out?

So I would honestly say the

business numbers part of it.

Like that like when you go PC, watch,

I don't think guys watch shark tank.

Right.

When you watch shark tank and they come

out, what's this, what's your retention

and what's your customer acquisition

costs and what's this and what's that.

I had no clue.

I was not accounting guy.

I wasn't a finance guy.

I didn't really know any of that.

It was all, kind of seat of my

pants kind of stuff going forward.

It was just like, and when I

was a solopreneur, it was about.

Just getting as much money in the

door as I could get and, and getting

the job done to keep people paying

me more and answering and then using

what I, my knowledge in what I did

to get out there so that people

could find me to, and they'd be like,

well, I called you because I put in

this keyword and you're everywhere.

And I'm like, all right, good.

The job's working there.

Right.

And then they call me.

I'm like, all right, well, great.

So they kind of knew I knew what I

was doing because I was right there.

But I wish I had a better

understanding about, forecasting

the numbers, the, being able to,

to, to know, like my, my acquisition

costs are customer lifetime stuff.

I'm so little shaky on those things,

honestly, those are things that

I'm still trying to, and I've been

looking for some classes on that.

My accountant, I've talked to a bit more

about, Hey, give me more of the numbers.

I need to know more about.

The business, the numbers,

not just, not just income and

expenses, but what's it take?

What kind of, what kind of

pro how profitable are you?

What, which jobs are profitable,

which are unprofitable.

So those things I wish I had a better

foundation with when I started this

and still trying to kind of figure all

those that we're getting obviously,

closer where I want to be, but.

It wasn't anything I ever

put a lot of emphasis on.

It was like, as long as I can pay

the bills, as long as I can pay

the guy, as long as I can put some

money in my pocket, I was good.

And that's not really the way to

run a business, it's just not.

And it's very common.

I mean, it's very common.

People start a business with

a skillset and they do that.

They know that skillset and then it

grows and they've got employees in it.

And now all of a sudden, all

that other stuff comes up and.

And they're so busy just doing the

thing that where do you, you can't

just stop and go back to school.

Yeah.

And the other thing too would be

learning to work on the business

and not in the business, right?

If you're working in the

business, you have a job.

You're just maybe a solopreneur.

You're not, you're not an entrepreneur.

You're an employee in a business that you

own working on the business and trying to.

Make it grow and trying to

bring more stuff into it.

That's a different side of the business.

And I think that for me, who's a bit

of a control freak at certain times,

it took me a while to just to sit let

it go, let somebody else do the job.

Because for a couple of reasons, I have

one guy I was at a training and he said

to me, who does your keyword research?

And I'm like, well, I do.

And it's like, how much are

you charging out at the time?

I was like a hundred bucks

an hour to do, for my time.

And it's could you hire

somebody to do that?

And I'm like, I mean, maybe, but you know,

could you train somebody how to do it?

I'm like, yeah, sure.

He's so if you could train somebody to do

it and they, and you charge, they charge

you $25 an hour, you're basically saving

$75 an hour and you're, if you're doing it

yourself, then you're getting paid $25 an

hour for a hundred dollars an hour person.

And I went.

Wow.

I never thought of it that way.

I'm like, that makes total sense.

Like I'm wasting my, let me give this

work to somebody else that can do it.

That does the same job work.

I can teach to do the job and pay them

25 bucks an hour and go find people who

will pay me a hundred bucks an hour,

200 bucks an hour, whatever it may

be and do that job, let that happen.

And so that was also something I wish I

had known earlier on in the business is to

work on it, not in it as much as you can.

Yeah, there's an author.

I like Michael Mikhailovich.

I believe this is how

you pronounce his name.

He wrote, he's written several books.

One of them is called fix this next.

And the other one is run like clockwork.

And the run like clockwork is, is that

what you were just talking about is

take the owner working themselves out

of running the business all the time.

To being the business more like

an investor managing the business

from externally and, and his, the

challenge that he sets for people is

when you start following his process,

or if you hire his, his consulting

is you plan a four week vacation.

You put it on the calendar, whether

it's a 18 months, but you plan a four

week vacation and you work to take

that four week vacation and have the

business run you for that four weeks.

So I was lucky enough.

In 19, 2019, I went on a 10 day

vacation to Iceland with a couple

of friends and connection was tough.

It was no like, wifi every now and then

you get to the hotel, maybe you get some

wifi, but those 10 days my team took care

of whatever they need to take care of.

I hear from my, my assistant a

couple of times about stuff, but.

I'm at the point now where I can go

away for a little while and feel,

I took a cruise like a couple years

ago, actually Justin and I took our

first cruise together right before,

literally like It was the week of

COVID, like we were all shipped out.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

We had no Wi Fi and I came back,

I had no school, no nothing,

like I was like, what happened?

We got back on Saturday and Tuesday,

the shutdowns happened on we got

back on the 14th of March and

17th was when they shut it down.

So we, we came back then and that

whole week we had no wifi and

everybody, it was all running itself.

So I'm at a place now where I feel

like I can step away for a little bit.

I know if there's an emergency

or an issue I could be reached.

I was away for 10 days during the

summer RVing with with my girlfriend.

And, a couple of little things came

up here and there that I had to

deal with, but most of it was like

access to this, access to that.

So the business runs pretty

good for a little while now.

Can it run for a month

at a time without me?

I don't know.

But I'm, I'm, I'm getting to

the point where I can do that.

And that's, that's really

the, the point of the jump up.

But now I'm investing a lot more of my

time into this business, the new one here

to build that side, because there's more.

This is easier revenue

and it's more scalable.

So that's kind of where we're

getting at with that trying to

scale up that, We can get a thousand

people paying us 99 a month.

Yeah, that's that's a

lot of money every month.

So that'd be nice Well, I I i'm out of

questions I mean you've answered more

questions than I could have asked and

and they're this is like a master class.

I love it How can people find, where

would you want people to find you?