In this encore episode, featuring a discussion with clinical mental health counselor Katelyn Jakobsen, we explore integrating sensory-motor psychotherapy into therapeutic practices, particularly for clients with chronic illness and self-esteem issues. We go into the importance of using the body in therapy for a holistic healing approach, contrasting traditional talk therapy with sensory-motor strategies and attuning to bodily sensations, movements, and posture to aid in trauma processing and improving mind-body awareness. 

• Understanding Sensory Motor Psychotherapy
• Practical applications and client experiences
• Incorporating yoga and sensory motor techniques

MEET Katelyn Jakobsen

I am an LCMHC at Krippa Family Psychological & Wellness Services. I specialize in treating chronic illness and self-esteem, and use a lot of therapy principles based in sensorimotor psychotherapy and IFS. As a former athlete and chronically ill individual, using my body and reclaiming it as a safe space has been hard but important work that I hope to share with others.

Find out more about Katelyn at NC Psychologist

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So whether you're here to expand your skills, enhance your self-care, or both. You are in the right place. Join me on this journey to help you be one step closer to bringing yoga into your therapy room.

I'm excited to share this amazing conversation with Kaitlyn Jacobson, all about using the body and therapy through sensory motor psychotherapy. If you've ever wondered how to better connect with your clients beyond words or how trauma impacts the body and not just the mind. This episode's for you. We explore what it truly means to be in tune with your body, how it differs from traditional talk therapy, and why incorporating the body can transform healing.

Let's get to it. I hope you enjoy this episode, the Body and Therapy with Caitlyn Jacobson. Have you been curious about integrating the body into therapy but are unsure how to do it? Or maybe you have used some somatic skills, but wanna learn more? Today's guest is Caitlyn Jacobson, and she's going to share more about how she uses the body in therapy and uses sensory motorcycle therapy and therapy to treat chronic illness and self-esteem.

So welcome to the podcast, Caitlyn.

Katelyn Jakobsen: Thank you so much. I'm listening to your voice and it's so nice to listen to.

Katelyn Jakobsen: Yeah, so I'm a clinical mental health counselor here in North Carolina.

I work at Cripp Stanley Psychological and Wellness Services, and I really see kind of a wide variety of people, but I really specialize in treating individuals with chronic illness and that struggle with like very active inner critics and self-esteem. I think with any. As like any other clinician, I use a variety of therapeutic interventions.

Yes. But I really love using the body in therapy.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, I hear that it's a game changer, isn't it?

Katelyn Jakobsen: It feels really critical to me in like incorporating the body. It feels like this really important piece of navigating therapy.

Chris McDonald: I think so too. 'cause I think if you just stay in the cognitive realm that it's like there's something missing.

Chris McDonald: Mm-hmm. And I think it brings things a little bit deeper. Yeah,

Katelyn Jakobsen: absolutely.

Chris McDonald: Yes. So what first interested you in using the body in therapy? For me, it

Katelyn Jakobsen: um, it kind of feels like a, like a story arc. I grew up playing a lot of different sports and dance, and it felt like this really kind of foundational part of.

Who I am today. But when I was younger, I feel like when it was like the biggest aspect of my identity, I started to get really sick and there were a lot of different unknowns around it. So both like the physical manifestations of being ill and like, you know, the mental implications of unknowns.

Experiences, their emotions very physically the, the role of the body, like I was just immediately drawn to, and it felt really critical and important for both me as a person and as a counselor. So kind of right out the gates. Started to incorporate it and learn about it both personally and professionally.

Katelyn Jakobsen: Yeah, absolutely. It feels so much, um, more apparent sometimes than. Like the cognitive and the emotional, the body I think is so intelligent. And I was actually listening to your podcast on body intelligence, but one of the things kind of that I really try and tell clients when learning about like the role of the body, 'cause they're like, why is that important?

Is that like if you were to fall down the stairs, that your body, your physical body reacts. Seven times faster than your brain cognitively processes what's happening. So our body's always reacting to like both internal and external input and making sense of that even it's. We ourselves aren't aware of that.

Even if we don't notice what's happening, our body, our body says things are happening.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. And I wondered too, if, if you are that sensitive to your sensations, do you notice your body, like with clients in session, does that give you any clues of what's happening?

Katelyn Jakobsen: Absolutely. You know, I, when, when we first start learning about therapy, they talk about tracking our clients and noticing, you know, what's going on behaviorally.

But I feel like their bodies tell so much too. And you know, sometimes people will be like, it's like you're in my head because they might be saying something and then, you know, we might be talking about. Like the tightness in their jaw when they said that, or like the way they pulled back when we were talking about something.

So kind of both. Yeah, absolutely.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. That attunement I think is so important.

Katelyn Jakobsen: Yeah. I think, you know, to, to mirror it. To them to question and bring attention to it. And then also for them to be able to start to notice those things themselves. Like, oh yeah, I did like my, like, sometimes it's even, um, you know, skin, like sometimes there's like visible changes around like the neck or chest with skin getting really red, which is also like really clear.

Evidence of the role of the body in your like thoughts and emotions.

Katelyn Jakobsen: Yeah, so talk therapy is kind of what we talk about being like top down therapy.

So in talk therapy. The entry point to therapy is like our words, our thoughts, and our emotions. While in like sensory motor therapy, it's that bottom up. Processing. So it's instead of kind of that cognitive restructuring and figuring out the way that our words, thoughts, and emotions shape our experiences past, present, and future, it's incorporating our physical bodies in that bottom up processing to make sense of our experiences and emotions both past, present, and future sensory.

You know, sometimes like I'll go on walks with clients or explore their posture or creating movements. A big kind of belief in sensory motorcycle therapy specific to trauma is that our bodies, you know, have these patterns of kind of movement for survival. And oftentimes in, in times of trauma, those patterns aren't completed.

Chris McDonald: That's so fascinating to think about reprocessing and through movement too, but how do you determine like if they're frozen with some kind of movement from a trauma?

Katelyn Jakobsen: Yeah, so I, I would like to say that, you know, I first really just start out with clients by really connecting to their bodies and growing their window of tolerance. So maybe it's. That we just start to like contact wellness, right? Maybe it's just we start to, uh, talk about a pleasant time in their lives and we notice their bodies and the ways in which their bodies show up and hold that sensation and really embody that sensation.

What happened, you know, describing the memories as much as it is them describing and noticing what's happening in their current body. So for example, you said, how do you notice, or how do you know if a client is frozen? And that would be from either, you know, tracking their movements and or what they're describing as like, I felt really.

Stuck. Like I, like I couldn't move in that moment.

Chris McDonald: That's, is that, could that be like a freeze response?

And that's that really kind of instinctual, like that fight, flight or freeze. And that's a lot of what we're kind of dealing with our bodies, kind of instinctual reactions and that fight, fight or freeze pattern when talking about these things. So absolutely a freeze response.

Chris McDonald: And how would you help a client that's in that freeze response?

Katelyn Jakobsen: Yeah. So while both, again, being in the present moment a little bit and and recognizing that we're safe, that's where that movement piece comes in. So it could be a variety of things. It could be focusing on finding any part of our body. That feels like it could move. It also might be asking questions like, you know, does your, does your body wanna do anything?

Let the client like explore and honor what their body wants to do, which again is like the most far out question to people who haven't experienced this. And also sometimes helping create sensations that feel really good. So maybe it's. You know, encouraging them to like, create pressure against the floor or push their legs against a table again, because our bodies do have like this natural intelligence and uh, kind of really instinctual desires, allowing it to carry that out and just being, giving the client the space to be curious about their bodies.

But really the level of. Kind of resolve and regulation that they experience from that to me is, has been kind of profound to be able to witness.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, it sounds like it. That's really fascinating. 'cause that's something I've learned recently with yoga too. 'cause I teach yoga and sessions and. And that's one question that I learned was, how does my body want to move right now?

Is, is there a pose I want to do right now? And listening, and I think you said the word trust, but trusting what comes up. Right? So maybe right now downward dog would feel really good for me and I get it. And for me, I try to use intuition to think what am, what is coming up? What do I see? I will see visual things.

Yeah, my body wants me to kick and questioning and getting more cognitive with it.

Katelyn Jakobsen: Yeah, absolutely. There feels like a real kind of like psychoeducational piece and like warming up to the idea. And also I think trust in the relationship because I see too, mm-hmm. There's a real kind of vulnerability to being in session and like.

Holding your hands out because it, you know, to, I think a, a passerby, it's like, what's, what's going on in there? Um, right. So there's kind of like this real vulnerability to like this, this movement piece of recreating and changing postures and, and using props and so, so yes. I think you talked about that trust piece.

Chris McDonald: so not expecting a certain outcome.

Katelyn Jakobsen: Because like you said, so for example, you might do a downward dog and like actually it doesn't feel quite right. Yeah, maybe you need to change it up. So being able to yeah, be non-judgmental and explore. Does this feel right? Do I need to try something different can also be really useful.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, so that's a good question too.

Is there something different to try in the moment?

Katelyn Jakobsen: Yeah, absolutely. And, and so we might spend like a whole session trying to find what feels right and I feel like that language kind of can really parallel some of yoga. Like do what feels right.

Right, exactly. Yeah, because that's what I wondered. Is it invitational language like we use with trauma informed yoga?

Katelyn Jakobsen: Um, in the sense of like asking if it feels okay? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. I, I would never, you know, want someone to do something that feels like very dysregulating Right. Or more than they can handle.

So, so that's part of those, you know, introductory and foundational pieces. Being able to inhabit your bodies, which I think, um, the idea sounds really pleasant, but for both people who struggle with chronic illness and self-esteem, the concept of like inhabiting your body doesn't necessarily feel safe. So it's being able to inhabit your body in a way that feels safe and being able to say no or to come away from it if it's not feeling okay.

Chris McDonald: Hey, therapist, do you have a client who gets stuck in their head and struggle to drop into their body? Are you recognizing the limits of talk therapy, but are unaware about the how and when to bring body-based practices into therapy sessions?

My trauma informed yoga. Basics course for therapists is ready and available. It is a digital version that is self-paced and designed just for clinicians like you. No yoga training or experience is required. It's packed with practical tools to help you safely integrate yoga into your sessions. You'll gain trauma informed practices rooted in neuroscience and polyvagal theory, practical tools to bring into sessions and ways to build your confidence with teaching yoga practices.

Enroll by May 31st and you get two free 30 minute individual yoga consultation. With me when you enroll, this is a great time that you'll be able to refine your teaching and I can help you with a client case. Get your individual guidance and support to learn more and start feeling confident bringing yoga into your therapy room.

Katelyn Jakobsen: Yeah, so I'm gonna just talk about it in the way that I always describe.

I'm, I'm, uh, I always have a drawing, but our window of tolerance is our ability to be embodied and present without leaving like our distress tolerance window of regulations. So, um, leaving our window would look like hyper arousal. So that's that racing heart rate. Um, the quick breathing, those feelings of anxiety or conversely that hypo arousal, which is something that we see in that freeze response or catatonia and the clients kind of are absolutely.

Absolutely. Um, of what you can tolerate, but like, not overwhelming yourself. And that can be a really fine line.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. That's tough to, and, and with trauma-informed yoga, that's too is is pushing it at the edge of the window. Right? We wanna open it more without going into sympathetic response.

Katelyn Jakobsen: Yeah, absolutely.

And so, so that's that constant kind of. Checking. Well, I don't wanna say constant, but that's that frequent checking in of like, you know, how are we feeling? Are we feeling okay? And, and kind of even sometimes for me, ranking how anxious we feel.

Katelyn Jakobsen: sometimes

Chris McDonald: it's

Katelyn Jakobsen: like honestly using like some suds like subjective units.

Of distress. So on a scale of one to 10, how anxious are you? Yeah, um, sometimes, you know, especially for clients who are, who are new to this experience of embodying, they, they might like check in with their bodies for really one to two seconds and then you'll see them open their eyes right away. 'cause I often, uh, really encourage clients if it feels.

Okay. For them to either close their eyes or do a soft gaze so that they can feel really in the moment with their bodies. And you'll kind of see, for clients who feel overwhelmed, their eyes kind of open up right away. And that's definitely like, okay, that was too much for us. That was too.

Chris McDonald: So I guess it is that clinical judgment piece of noticing and and being aware yourself of where they are.

Chris McDonald: So it sounds like a lot too is just building that safety in the session.

Yeah. Initially and

Katelyn Jakobsen: Yeah. And we, we kind of do that in a variety of ways. Regarding our bodies. So one of the exercises that, some of the exercises, I would say three specifically that I really like as like orienting a client to this idea is contacting wellness or. Pleasant moments, especially with chronic illness clients being able to like contact pleasant sensations in their body and hold onto it is one that I really like to get clients to orient to this idea of using the body.

So if we were to like think of some stranger behind the door that was really depressed, we might make, you know, judgements or expectations around the ways in which they would carry themselves, like maybe really slumped shoulders or looking down or moving really slowly. And we would make those judgements because they're often kind of very similar, the ways in which.

We hold ourselves physically because our bodies are so smart and incorporated with our minds. Our mind is now interpreting kind of that sensory input, right? That internal and external sensory input and making stories out of it. So it's continuing to pattern the ways in which we feel about ourselves.

Katelyn Jakobsen: Yeah, so we've, I, you know, I've kind of touched on like creating safety and contacting, you know, pleasant and sensations.

For clients with chronic illness, but posture, um, for everyone. But definitely clients with self-esteem is, is really interesting. You know, they often talk about maybe like feeling really small or something, something that feels kind of intertwined with the narratives about themselves and us working on identifying.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, I can imagine that that's really fulfilling to, to see the success with that too.

Katelyn Jakobsen: Yeah, absolutely. One thing that I, that I have to say about working with the body is it does. Sometimes feel like there's kind of immediate gratification both to the client and to the therapist, because I do get to witness on occasion really kind of immediate physical and emotional reactions from the ways in which we incorporate our body, which is.

Really incredible. Yeah. That's powerful. Definitely. Yeah, it's really awesome, um, to be able to see like some of those changes posturally and the way at which clients start to change. You know, how they really navigate the, the world. Yeah. I think even, even our eye line know, we're only looking down, like not being able to see safety or connection.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, it's just those small things, but they make a big difference. And, and I'm sure a lot of this too, is neurologically based, right?

In our brains and

Katelyn Jakobsen: Yes, absolutely. Yeah. The, the theory is, is definitely, you know, integrated using some of the, like Dr. Peter Levine somatic experiencing. I don't personally feel really qualified to speak on the OMI experience, um, but I know Dr. Patton really relied on the OMI experience and incorporating some of that polyvagal theory into the theory as well.

Katelyn Jakobsen: Yeah, absolutely. I. Use both the kind of body, so I use an incorporation of like sensory motor psychotherapy, acceptance and commitment therapy and, and pain and neuroscience education when helping clients navigate pain. So being able to identify our bodies as not just unsafe and harmful, and being able to feel the ways in which it serves you or notice.

So that like reaction to the pain and orienting to the pain and. Focusing on it all kind of continue to amplify that pain signal. Again, some of that kind of experimental lens of just like noticing the sensation without judgment can be really useful as well as attuning to other senses. So it might be a sense in some other place of our body, it might be creating a sense.

Chris McDonald: No, that makes a lot of sense. 'cause I know when I have pain that acts up, it it, it does just tune you into that, right, that sensation.

Oh my gosh. Yeah. It's hard to focus on anything else when it's real bad.

Katelyn Jakobsen: Yeah. And then it's like this, you know, it can be really all consuming. And, and for me, like self-reinforcing loop Yes. Of like, now I'm fixating on it and my stress and cortisol levels are Oh, yeah. Increasing. So now the inflammation is rising and my brain is interpreting that danger signal more and more.

So yeah, it's, it's a potent relationship that can be hard to disentangle from.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, for sure. It sounds like this approach has a lot of different parts to it that could help.

Also some internal family systems like part space. The theories, yes. In addition to the body, like the body feels like for me, kind of foundational to always be coming back to while also lending to some of those like top down processes of like, okay, let's, let's incorporate, and that's I think for me, previous to learning about the incorporat incorporation.

Of the body. For me, that's what it was missing by just doing, you know. Talk theory alone. The, the foundation of the body has felt really important for me to incorporate with all the other theories as well.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. It sounds like you use a blend of different things. Absolutely, yes. I love to Me too.

Katelyn Jakobsen: Yeah, I really do.

Chris McDonald: I know you mentioned going for walks with clients and, but what about with telehealth?

Is, does this, the sensory motor does, is that something you can use like with telehealth with clients?

Katelyn Jakobsen: Yeah, so you definitely can, you know, I'll say it's not without complication. If, if, um, like if I can't see the client for example, or maybe I'm only seeing part of them. Yeah, that's what I

Chris McDonald: wonder.

Katelyn Jakobsen: So I really do, you know, prefer personally to see clients in person because I feel more intertwined with them.

We do have the ability to go for a walk and, and be connected with each other, but it's not accessible for everyone, especially those with with chronic illnesses. So I do just try and part of like the educational piece of working together, have them kind of be away from the computer enough so that enough of their body for me to be able to see is in frame.

Like the groundwork of starting to identify the sensations in your body to be able to do this work, because there are sensations always happening. We're just not attuning to them. Right,

Chris McDonald: exactly. Yeah. So what's a takeaway you could share today that could help listeners that might be just starting to use the body in therapy?

Chris McDonald: That sounds like that could be powerful too. 'cause I think we're so used to giving judgment to things.

Katelyn Jakobsen: Absolutely. Especially when. Tied to pain signals like, this must be wrong, this must be bad. But we know with, with chronic pain that isn't structural, for example, not a broken bone, that it's where we assume kind of in, in pain that if's just kind of a broken pain signal response.

Chris McDonald: So what's the best way for listeners to find you and learn more about you?

Yeah, so

Katelyn Jakobsen: I, like I said, I work at Crya family, um, psychological and wellness services, and our website is NC as in North Carolina. psychologist.com. Um, you can find me right on that page.

Chris McDonald: Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast, Caitlyn. This was very informative. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me.

Thank you for joining us for this important conversation with Caitlyn Jacobson on using the body and Therapy. I hope you found practical insights and inspiration to bring more somatic awareness into your work. And remember, healing happens not just in the mind, but through the body too. Are you ready to integrate yoga into your work and connect with other like-minded therapists?

Go to HC podcast.org/yoga collective. That's HC podcast.org/yoga collective. And once again, this is Chris McDonald's sending each one of you much light and love. Till next time, take care. Thanks for listening to today's episode. The information in this podcast is for general informational and educational purposes only.

It's given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher, or the guests are giving legal, medical, psychological, or any other kind of professional advice. We are not responsible for any losses, damages, or liabilities that may arise from the use of this podcast. Yoga is not recommended for everyone and is not safe under certain medical.