The Mystics Social Club talks about what Tarot reading means to them...kind of. This episode Nate seems bound and determined to make this show about nothing in particular.

I want to tell you a campfire story about a poor but humble primate who embarked on a long and arduous journey into time. Well, we have a rather curious subject today, but one that seemingly is involved in practically everything that happens on earth. You know, if we're gonna create this new AI god, well, you know, I wanna be a part of it. Oh, yeah. That's a big.

You may have noticed that I'm not all there myself. I was looking towards the doorway, and in the doorway, and I was looking towards the doorway asleep, but it looks like super bright white light behind. So bright that it obscured the silhouettes of 3 figures coming through the doorway at me. Well, she's probably just trying to reach you about your car's extended warranty and you're not listening. She's gonna show up with 1 of, Hecate's babies riding on her back.

We're sitting on the fringe. It's the Mystic Social Club. If it's mystical, we're talking about it, and my definition mystical is raw. Shenanigans. It'll be a hoot with a little bit of nanny.

Well, here we go. Yay. The Mystic Club podcast. Did we get the intro again? No.

I mean Oh. Yeah. It's there. But Oh, it's added afterwards. Mhmm.

Yeah. That's why it's gotta work with, our current setup. Gotcha. Do you like that intro? I was thinking of changing it.

I don't care. Oh, who are you gonna change it to? I don't know yet. That's I play around. That's the fun part for me, I guess.

I I just go full. At the, computer. ADHD. Oh, I just thought it was a new sound effect that we're gonna get. So for the first episode, I thought we'd talk about something that, that you guys are really into, and that's tarot.

But before we get into the all that, Amy, how's your date? Did you let him have it? Have what? My time and attention? Yeah.

He got some of my time and attention. It was like I mean, it's like, it's him. I'm not gonna say his name for, you know, like, I'm not exposing him, but, like, I'm like, it's him. Like, I just like, it's a shrug. Like, it's all how Terry is.

Yeah. It's just it was cool. The spark wasn't there? There's no spark? I mean, I think I have friends on him, like, 8 years ago, and that's just where he's been.

So I'm like, But That's hard to come out of on either end, honestly. Yeah. Like that dude couldn't close the deal. I mean, I don't I wouldn't even say necessarily tried. It just kinda felt like 2 friends, like, hanging out and catching up.

Lame. It got me out of the house for once, which because I posted pictures of myself on Snapchat. You know? So But I thought it was a date, so I don't I don't I don't I mean, he asked me to dinner. That's great.

To me, that is a date. So he was like, hey. Do you wanna go get some dinner? And let me know what night you're free, and then we can go. Like, he's already planning for the next dinner date.

Oh, you get you guys are gonna go on another dinner date? I wouldn't even call it that. I'm gonna call it more of a drinking for happy hour. Mhmm. Because that's hang.

More of a hang. Yeah. Because you hang. Yeah. But, again, half of my friends on Snapchat were like, you're out of your house.

I'm so proud of you. Oh. You look so pretty. And I'm like, thanks. That lovely.

Right? Kinda sad. Look like you're pretty. I told you you look mad fly. Thank you.

Got so many compliments on the Wu Tang shirt. So many. It's a classic do any tarot readings on it? Of course, I didn't, and and so did Lou. Of course, I did.

There's always there's always gonna be a reading. Hello? We're not savages. Right. We don't willy nilly things.

We ask the cards first. So you're savage. It. Alright. Well, do you wanna talk about it?

Let's dig right into your personal life, like, immediately. Let's let's here, this is about as personal as it's gonna get. I have a camo jacket that says savage but a sweetheart on the back of it or sweetheart but a savage. I do. I don't wear it out often, because it is like an actual military jacket, and I found out it's kinda disrespectful if you weren't in the military from a couple people.

So I don't wear it out often, but it's a custom piece. Not if you took it as a sex trophy. No. No. You didn't.

Then it is disrespectful. Yeah. This was just one of my friends who, You're just making up rules now. Creates clothing. It's not a rule.

It's a guideline. Sometimes you follow them. Sometimes you don't. Rough outline, more like Mhmm. Perfect.

It's like saying parlay. It's more like a guideline. And we're back to Disney. That's what it's always gonna be. There is a Disney villains tarot deck.

I know. I gave it to you. You did. Does any of that money go to Disney? I don't think so.

I don't think it's actually sponsored by Disney. But, see, wouldn't Disney then turn around and sue them for using the likeness because it's identical imagery? I don't know. Does it say anything about Disney on the box? They would 100% sue you.

Did you did you see the lawsuit recently, from that guy that died in the The wife that died? It was the wife that died. Husband. No. It's definitely the wife.

I challenge you. What happened? You gotta explain this. I challenge you. So some Porschemo died at a restaurant, a Disney restaurant, because they served him food that, he was allergic to.

And he disclosed that, and so they killed him. And so they sued Disney. It's a owned restaurant or something because it's a Disney restaurant. And they their defense was based on part of a contract from a Disney plus subscription. I can't read that.

You gotta talk to me. It definitely says, Disney says man can't sue over wife's death because he agreed to the terms. Because apparently he he agreed to the terms of the wife. But Disney plus? He can't sue them?

There there's an indemnity clause in Disney plus, and they're using that as their defense. They've since pull is is it became public, and they've since retracted their defense and decided to settle or something like that. Yeah. Because that's shady as shit. If it hadn't hit the news, there's no way that they could have gotten.

With it. Yeah. Mhmm. What? I'm not I don't like I don't wanna make enemies on a public, you know, public forum, but I don't like Disney.

I love Disney. Amy. So hired Disney villain tarot deck. It would be fitting. Mhmm.

I'm trying to find it so I can see. I know If it's, like, care or if it's, like, copyright Disney or not? Because I don't think it is. But I don't know. Magical corporation, by the way.

Well, then, of course, they made tarot cards And a villain deck only because there's not no. There's a no Alice in Wonderland. But Mickey Mouse out there. There is, but also Alice in Wonderland isn't isn't the same either. Yeah.

I'm fairly positive this is 100%, because it says Disney on on the box. Fucking have it? You're all like, I think they make a Disney toy tag, and then you whip out the box? I know that they do. I said and I said I bought it for her and sent it to her.

Mhmm. Am I not paying attention? No. You're not. ADHD odd odd or whatever you say it.

Who's the fool in the in the Disney villains tarot deck? That's an excellent question. Let me look. Oh, who was it? I don't remember off the top of my head.

The moon is Yzma. The magician isma. She's from Emperor's New Groove. She's in the one where he goes no touchy. The magician is doctor Facilier.

I don't know who that is either. He's from, Princess and the Frog. Hangman, I can't remember the snake's name from The Jungle Book, but that's the hangman. Thank you. I know that one.

Or Kaa. I watched I watched that earlier today too. That's the sad part. I already forgot. Temperance is the eels from Little Mermaid.

Tower is Rapunzel's tower, so tangled. Justice is the guy from Big Hero 6, who I can't remember his name. Queen let's see. Where is it? None of this seems to fit the traditional tarot symbol of the emperor shirkon.

Maybe. Death is Hades, so that fits. He's not actually a god of death. He's god of the underworld. Yeah.

That is true. Okay. Let's see. It's the same thing. What was that?

No. It's the same thing. Oh, it's not. Argue amongst yourselves while I try to find it. Yeah.

Explain this to me. No. When they divvied up the the No. You won't? I said when they divvied up the different areas, he just drew the stick of, hey.

I got the underworld. Thanks, guys. It's not like that. Hades. That's who we were just talking about.

I know, but that doesn't mean he's a god of death. The fuck are you talking about? His realm is the underworld. He doesn't cause death. He doesn't bring death.

He just rules over the underworld. Where did the dead go? Well, in that belief system there. Okay. And who so who rules over those people?

Is that Hercules? No. This would be Kronk from Emperor's Nude. So all the people who die go to the underworld, who rules the underworld? Hades.

And what is Hades? He's the lord of the underworld. Is he a god? Yes. Okay.

So he's got the god of death. I mean, it's it's a bunch of dead people, so I can see Nate's point. No. It's just souls that have moved on. They moved on to the next cycle, and that's just where they go.

One of us is so lost, and I'm pretty sure it's you. We can forget it. Should we? Amy, how are you doing? You're still flipping through that deck, guys.

Is this the first time you opened up open it up? No. It's just been a minute because this one, I read by kind of like the movie scenes. So I don't I mean, that and when I read tarot in general, I don't go by really the traditional meanings or, you know, like, the actual, quote, unquote, meanings of the card. I go by the symbolism and the imagery.

So, like, I can it gets a little weird to say the least. They're generally spot on, by the way. Just by feeling then. I mean, that mixed with intuition, mixed with things randomly popping into my head, like, my you know, I don't know why I'm doing this, but I'm doing this. Does it make sense to you?

And, normally, it's like, yeah. That's weird. So you don't really need cards then if you think Most people don't. The whole idea of the tarot card is to just get you out of lizard brain and get you into into higher self brain. But there's something about our human consciousness that it you need a mechanism sometimes to get that flip switched, and so it's a way to get out of your head and and visualize something.

It's like so that you open up that channel. You open up that conversation. So, yeah, I mean, that's the same way how, like, if I'm doing a reading or something and then, like, I can start it off where sometimes I'll turn on a song, and I'll be all the way through the entire song. And I haven't pulled a single card yet, and the message has already started. It's just a way to get out of your overly critical mind and get into your subconscious a little bit.

Mhmm. Yeah. So it's a mechanism. What you're saying? It's a mechanism.

It's the same with any kind of divination. You're getting out of, like, the stranglehold that our consciousness has on us in regards to blocking out different energies and seeing things for what they are and blocking out your intuition. So it's a mechanism. It's like flashcards. Mhmm.

And, normally, you don't at least for me, I normally don't fixate on, like, the same part of the card even if it pops out again for, like, somebody else. Like, if there's a crow on it and on the card, I'm not for, like, one person's reading, I might be like, and start thinking of different aspects of the crow or why crow, like, they fly, the you know, black, all of these other things, where there might be a crow on a card and also, like, a water element. And I might think more for a different reading or a different thing, lean more towards the water than the crow even you know? So it just depends on the reading and what's happening. Again, I I just always focus on the images over everything.

Which is why there's, like you. Which is why there's, like, a million and one ways to read a single card. It just depends on the circumstances. It depends on what other cards are around it. It depends on, like, is it in a spread?

Is it in the question? Is it in the circumstances? Is it because it's facing one direction or another? Is it facing directly towards you? Are you seeing their back?

All of those things have to factor in, and it's just in that moment, what is your eye drawn to initially, and then that's that's where the message normally starts. Because if your eye is drawn to it, you need to just take that first initial instinct and just go with it. And then everything after that should be confirming you're that you're on the right track, and then it's to keep going. That's the way I do it. Like Amy said, because one day, I'll look at the exact same card, and it's a totally different Mhmm.

Circumstance, totally different reading. I appreciate you both explaining how you do it. I'm I I I love the tarot decks. Well, specifically, I'll I'll I'm I'm stuttering a lot. I really, with tarot is one of the first things that got me into, the occult and the fascination with the occult, and its symbolism.

And I'm a solo tarot practitioner. I don't do readings for other people or anything like that, just for myself, and I use them as a med meditative practice. So doing readings for other people is not something that, you know, just doing general readings and and creating, fortune telling is too strong of a term. But you know what I'm getting at as far as doing tarot readings? Well, 1st and foremost for me, tarot is for personal self development, personal growth, spiritual growth, connecting to your higher self or connecting to your channel or connecting to your deities, whatever it is that you believe in.

So there's, I mean, there's a lot of different ways that you can interpret whatever those messages are are coming in and where they're happen to be coming from. But at its core, it's meant to help stimulate your inner pathway, your inner compass to direct you through the trials and tribulation that happen in your lifetime and how you work through them and how you come up against challenges and how do you face them and how do you work through them. All of those things is what the first and foremost. So you saying, I only read tarot for myself, that's the way that a lot of people do. That's the way that most people do, use the tarot.

You know? A lot of You you teach people how to do tarot. What do how do how do you teach people how to do tarot? Like, when they come to you, and they're like, oh, I'll learn how to read cards. I how do you deal with that?

How do I deal with it? What do you mean? Alright. I guess I'll I'll be mean. Like, someone says, I want because that's a lot.

It's like coming to somebody and be like, I want to learn how to be a psychic like you. Teach me how to do that. Yeah. It's essentially what you're doing. Right?

So how do you approach that, and how do you teach people? Do you do you teach them the physical symbolism in the cards? And is is is that what's kinda most important when you're doing readings with other people so that you can interpret it? Or is it just you get what I'm going at here? Well, yeah.

I mean, like, if you wanna kinda know, like, the stages of learning, tarot. Is that what you're asking? Like I want you to tell me how you teach people how to channel psychic energy through playing cards. That's gonna cost you, at minimum $35. Okay.

Classes are once a month. No. So, like Well, we we don't have any listeners, so I'll get you. Oh, that's worth one person to me. Yep.

Well, I'll give you a $35. Give me an introductory. Teach me, like, I'm What you're what you're what you're what you're actually doing is you're learning a language. That way Such a good way to put it. I agree with you.

Yeah. Language is going to present itself to each person individually, but there are, again, some guidelines to assist you, especially when you're trying to connect and learn how to incorporate them and how to use them because there's so many factors. So you start out basic. You start out with simple things. So you get into, like, the archetype jazz right away.

You have to. Yeah. So you have to break it down, the PIP cards, the elements, what do the elements represent? How many different ways can you interpret just a single element? Then you're adding on top of that what number of the card is, and now you're adding in numerology.

The color the colors on the cards, like I said, the directions in which they're facing. Is it a person on the card? Is it an object on the card? Then Alright. Alright.

All that stuff, and you slowly start Alright. Rubbing on top of each other so that you read it in a full sentence rather than you're just picking and drawing out a certain thing and you're seeing it as a whole. And then you back back out, and then you interpret that picture now that you've put all those elements together and you do a little zoom back out, not after you've zoomed in, and then that's when you can start understanding the meanings more. And then it's developing that from there. Then it's turning it into a phrase.

Then it's turning it into a sentence. Then it's turning it into a full story or a full movie at some point, and then it's becoming, you know, like, it get just gets expands and expands and expands. And once you get good at it, that part slowly gets shorter and shorter and shorter where you just intuitively just go, oh, that's what it's trying to tell me. You see it as a full frame by frame at that point as you start pulling in the pictures together, and that takes time. And sometimes people don't wanna devote that kind of time.

They just wanna just read me the cards and now I'm psychic. And so there's a big part of learning tarot where people think it's easy. People think that it is, Wait. Okay. So hold on.

Let me pause you there right there. So you're saying that so what do you do you think that reading tarot cards is a channeled activity, or is it a symbolic narrative reading? Or is it a combination of both? I think it's a combination of both. There's been times where where it is pretty just I'm just triggering my subconscious about things that I already know, and it's just confirming things.

Like, you knew you should've done this. You knew this was right, or you knew this was wrong. And it's it's triggering that higher self part of me where I just like, yeah. I know. And so there is sometimes when the readings are a little bit more just to either encourage or confirm or deny something that you already knew, but it was like, okay.

That's part of your growth too, spiritually trusting your instincts and doing what you know you should do, not fighting against it. Right? But then there are other times where I go full channel, and I don't even know what I just read about because I was, poo, gone to the moon, and I don't even know what what I just said. Usually, you don't remember either after you do a reading. Shoot.

I forgot you were even there. Hey. I know. I don't know how you could do that. But, no, like, you don't remember.

Like, there's multiple times where I've been like, oh, crap. I kinda forgot what they told me. Go back and ask. I don't remember what I told you. And I've had people ask me, yeah, that reading you gave me a couple days ago, I'm like, I don't even know what I said to you at this point.

So you just blackout like Will Ferrell in that, what's that movie where they go back to college? Old School? Yeah. Old School. Have you seen that movie, Old School?

Yes. Where they're doing the challenge at the end? And he or it's like, yeah, something. He does something like speech or something like that. A blank debate.

Mhmm. Yeah. I mean but at times, it's almost kinda like it's kinda how you know because, like, there's times loose giving me readings, and she'll be like, yeah. I don't remember what I just said to you, but I know it was good. That's so inconvenient.

But it's one of those things of then that's when I know that it is more of a channeled message specific for the person. It happens if you're open to it. If you have if you have the the if you've honed that skill, then you can trust that whatever's coming out is correct, and then you kinda just like, I hope that that was okay. You know, I hope that you understood that because I don't know what I just said. And so it's not like a cop out or anything like that.

It just happens sometimes. And if you're really in it and you're really connected to that person's energy, then it it happens more often than you might think. Because sometimes there's even times where I'll be channeling in their spirit team or their higher self or their you know? I'm tapping into something, and it's speaking directly to that person. And they're just looking at me like Darian Head, like like, oh, shit.

Okay. And I don't know why. I'm saying what it what's what's coming out. Because so not controlling. Most of the time, it's you end up hearing something off the wall that you actually are, like, nobody knows that, except for maybe this one other person who you have no idea of their existence.

Where are you getting this information, and how do you know this is what occurred? So it's kinda like one of those things, like, I have a joke with Lou where I'm like, now you know that I know that you know that you know I know. Makes no sense, which is part of the point. Does not. Yeah.

But, like, I already know she knows things, and I know she knows things. And she knows that I know that she knows things. So it really does make sense when you slow it down. There is a difference between just, like like, intuitive tarot, and there's people who are actually really good at predictive tarot. But that's a whole different subgenre of tarot where you're very much connected to your psychic abilities and your different clair abilities, where you can do some predictive.

I think a lot of people were like, hey, tell me my future. That's not really what tarot's actually intended for. But you can do it. Yeah. Of course, you could.

Okay. I would definitely if I was like a millionaire, I would definitely have an on staff, like, live in fortune teller type of thing. Fortune teller. Not fortune teller, but, you know, tell the future. A seer?

Yeah. Or an oracle. F. Yes. I would have an oracle.

Yeah. Yeah. I'd make them a little house. Like a tiny house? Yeah.

They'd be they'd live with me. Like a pet? Right. Like, are you building a compound? Is that what I I like, I pay them like an employee.

Oh, just a just like a like a personal assistant who assists you with your spiritual guidance. Yeah. It's saying A spiritual or anything like that. Guidance. There's a lot of people that pay for that.

Like, Chris, they'll they have them on speed dial. I've heard numerous stories where it's like, hold on, guys. I'm gonna take this call. Yeah. No.

You should not go get on that plane right now. Wait and take the flight tomorrow. Don't get on this one. And then I don't know. Not use him for stuff like that.

I would pretty much only use him for tricks. For trick like, what? This is if I did this, what would be the response? And I would just use them to gauge what level of trickery I would be doing on a day to day. Well, how bad your consequence would be from whatever it was you deciding what it was when telling you telling you what the best one to do.

Choices and what the pros versus cons. What's the consequence of this actually? Is a tower we'd come outside. Right. It's a tire time.

What's the kind wheel? It kinda depends. It can go this way or this way. It's up to you, and Nate's like, that's not why I'm paying you. No.

I I know that's exactly what I'm paying for. I want to know I wanna choose my consequence, I guess. It's just it's it makes for a softer way. Turn it into a pick your own adventure game without and knowing he's gonna win. That's what we want.

That is, like, my all time childhood book series. Choose your own adventure. See if we found it. I guess I am psychic. Nailed it.

Wore them. All wore them through. It made an impression on me. I that's probably exactly how I live my life, choose your own adventure. I died a lot.

I'm a grieve. You are like you are like Tom Hanks in big. Yeah. Because doesn't he create that where it's a comic book, but you get to choose your own adventure? Made a wish, was Zoltar.

I think it was made the wish that he wanted to be and, you know, because I think it was he couldn't get on a ride at a carnival because he was too short or something. No. I think that That's the plot of big. Yeah. The the plot of big.

I'm not going to explain the plot of big. Everyone seemed big. No. The part was that we What you're talking about is make a game, and he makes an electronic game. Project before he quit was he was gonna create a comic book series that was interactive, and it was gonna be a big thing.

It's gonna revolutionize the gaming industry. And the comic book industry together. If you're saying that I'm a kid in a big boy's body like Big who is a revolutionary, yes, I agree with you. Thank you for the compliment. Appreciate it.

Thank you. Like, it was, like, as a revolutionary. I said, like, love, like, it's the first time every time. Alright. Okay.

So I know you said you just read the cards for yourself, but, like, how do you do you read them either way, lure I do, or you are we just, like, way different than how you interpret them for yourself? It's complicated. I I did, I haven't really prepared a dissertation on tarot or anything like that. I definitely don't want to. I think I do.

I think it's gonna be a side project. Mhmm. We gotta have, like I think we've gotta create some kinda Nate Presents series because it's really the only way I could fully explain myself. Oh, every once in a while, it's gonna be a TED talk with Nate kind of a thing? Nate presents his tarot cosmogony.

Oh, gotcha. You know? I'm just gonna immerse yourself in the world of my point of view. It's a wild ride. Little bit to choose your own adventure.

Yeah. That makes sense. When I do it myself yeah. So I've I've read a lot of I've read a lot of books on esoteric symbolism. So when I'll you look at a tarot deck, I I look at it with the type of reverence that it it's it's like a it's like a religious book, essentially.

I look at the major arcana, the 22 cards as like, and the and it's theorized. It's basically, like, it's the book of Toth, you know. And 21. It tells the the story of the hero's journey. The journey of, like, initiation and stuff.

So cards, but okay. What? I'm not even listening to you. I said it's 21 cards, not 22 in the major arcana. She's saying get it right.

It's like Wait. I thought it was 22. Count that for me again. What? I thought it was 22 cards.

Right here. What am I counting twice? Nope. You're right. I was dumb.

What was it? Oh, because it goes to 21 because it's 0. Sorry. I forgot about the full card. Holy hell.

Who's the expert here? I know. I just had a total brain fart. That's embarrassing. Because I'm like, it's embarrassing.

Card's 21. What are we talking about? And then I was like, oh, 0. It is a brain fart. It's my it's I totally claim that one.

That's I get how you don't count it because, like, 0, you're not But it's the number of that he said number of cards in the major conic. So Well, on the the full card doesn't, traditionally, it doesn't necessarily start at the beginning either. Nope. It's pretty much in the in between. That's a that's a modern orientation.

Yeah. It's all potential. It's the o. It's the odd. It's neither here or there.

It's neither positive nor negative. So I do believe in a bunch of goofy shit like channeling and connecting to the the all and, you can really get a junkie and archetype collective unconscious thing and interpreting symbols through that and then, you know, pepper in a little bit holographic theory, and you've got this big old soup where you can use your external world to understand what's happening inside and outside and how to how to help make decisions, understand the the root of what's going on. So and then on the, on another side, just when nothing's happening, I use them as a meditation tool too, and I view the cards. Like I would, like I would read a book on philosophy, except I'm not reading somebody else's words. I'm contemplating the meaning by the behind the symbols, and what the pictures are telling me.

Because each each card is basically a page in a big book, you know? And I don't yeah. That's what I use it for. You know? Just like anyone else would use it.

I mean, I don't wanna say it's like a therapist. It's different than that. You know? Getting a tarot reading from somebody else is closer to a therapist, but it's still not the same. No.

I agree. I always tell people I'm like, okay. This is for you. You're gonna be the focus because you're the only one that control you and what you choose to do and how in your actions and what that means. So this might bring up red flags that you're missing.

This might bring up, you know, things that you need to be focusing on or things that you need to let go of or things that you need to work harder at or things like that. So it's all about, like you said, about personal development. Ultimately, I think, tarot is a tool used to self reflect. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, my own mother calls them my truth telling cards. She's like, oh, are you gonna are you gonna grab your truth telling cards today? And I'm like, no. Do I need to? Like, is there something I need?

I mean, but that's just what she that's just what she calls them. Yeah. Well, that's how old these symbols, the each card of these symbols are is it it goes back beyond, just written language. These are parts of stories that have been passed down that we all take part of a kind and every day we reflect those stories as part of humanity, you know, our narrative, the human the the story of man kind of thing you know and it's when you reflect on those those concepts it opens up this philosophical door where you can you can start to see the future kind of thing from understanding our psychology because that's what the that's what these symbols are. It's a it's like a compendium of human psychology and creation of consciousness kind of thing, and your story from birth to death in the cycle that you're a part of.

Is that a little too woo woo? No. You're talking to 2 very woo woo people. We don't get we don't get woo wooed. We don't get out woo wooed a whole lot.

Yeah. It's usually this is weird, but I I'm I'm with it. It makes sense. Like, it's out there, but it's fine. It's fine.

Well and that's the stuff we deal with on the regular. Like, people fear what they don't understand. And a lot of people who are heavily into religion, they don't realize that a lot of tarot has religious symbolism in it. That part. And That it actually probably came first before whatever religion you're in or, you know, or it came out at the same time because of that religion, you know, or something.

And so it becomes a it comes this weird thing. It's the same sort of energy that, like, people who grew up in a very conservative, like, churchy setting. Like, parents don't want their kids to go off to college because it's gonna fill their head with worldly things. And it's like, no. They're just opening up their consciousness, and you don't you're not gonna like what they see because they're gonna be like, wait.

No. It's not. They're going. They're is is and you're gonna get taken advantage of. I know.

Right? They like to keep us contained, and the whole point of of of a cult's beliefs is understanding the mysteries of what we really are, who we really are, what our purpose is, all of those things, and they don't want us to know that stuff. They wanna keep us in the box. You know? So I understand how people get scared, scared of of things they don't understand.

But at some point, it's like Part part of it too, I bet oh, sorry. No. Part of it too, I bet, is because of what I've noticed about things like the tarot, it attracts a a lot of loons too. And a lot of people who just, like, you know, people are using it like like anybody does a swindle or whatever. Not swindlers, like your street side thief.

Doing cards at a table, feeling people's coins or something. But what I mean is like, it's it can be an outlet for ridiculousness and taking you taking your attention and not not using it as an it's intended because it's intended as an occult practice. You know, you're supposed to know things before you actually start trying to decipher what these images mean. Otherwise, you're you might as well be using a coloring book to do tarot readings from, you know, it's all the it's all the same. You're just taking messages from from yourself, you know, because it's fun or it's kitschy, you know.

Yeah. But that can happen in anything. I mean, think of the weirdos that think about weirdos in religion or weirdos in in, education, weirdos in politics where they can take it to the extreme and use it in a negative way, which that can be done with pretty much anything in the world, honestly. Mhmm. DeLulu is not always the solulu.

Mm-mm. No. And there's the DeLulu in every in every group. DeLulu is not always the solulu. What is a What is it?

Dolulu? Delusion is not always the solution. Thank you. Oh. And there's delusional people in every aspect and everything.

All I could see in my brain were slinkies. Like, I didn't see red. I saw slinkies. Say it again. The Lulu is not the Solulu.

Yeah. That's slinkies. Now every time my hair looks like picture is going to be that. Slinkies. Well, I mean, maybe that's what the delusional see in their head too.

I don't know slinkies. I don't I don't know. It's all slinkies. Delusion. Mhmm.

Yeah. No. I think it's just like anything else. If you use things properly, if you, like you said, educate yourself, because there's a lot of people that, you know, think they know what something is until they actually start learning more about it. I know Nate learns about everything, but but, like, most people most people don't some bitch out there.

Most people don't guide into it and figure it out for themselves and then decide whether that's for them or not. They just take whatever the narrative that they've been taught or told or society tells them to, and then they just are like, well, then that's a negative thing or a positive thing. Is it a positive thing that I only listen to the mushroom gnomes? What? Or the what?

What? The entities. The mushroom entities? Yes. They're the only teachers I trust.

Sure. Everybody else is corrupt. Well, that's one way. Terence McKenna did a number on me. He did.

Maybe I should read something else. The mushrooms are taking over. Mhmm. Who says that they are in control now? I didn't say they weren't.

I'm just saying. Super Mario Brothers was, disclosure. Sure. Didn't you just go to Super Mario World 2? Syncretic much?

Just had to point that out. Yeah. He walked in. He goes, this is like a bad trip. Yeah.

It's a bad trip. And I go, honey, it's for the children. So it'd be perfect for me. Be the first one going to the tube going, doo, doo, doo, and, like, shrinking down behind one. I need to go on a vacation with Amy because I have a feeling we just we just be kids.

Just, like, running around doing shit. We would. It would be a great time. I don't wanna go any They actually did have a, like, the tubes, so so you could take pictures where you're coming out of the tube. Oh, perfect.

Back down the tube and stuff like that. We would just be making There would be so many videos from the gap. They also had those question mark coin blocks. It's numbskull kids were jumping up and wang wanging their head on it and make noise. So it sounds like a great time, and I need to go.

Where are the cards? Because we need to check. Is this in my is this coming up anytime soon? In my future. Right.

I unlocked a door yesterday. Do I did I unlock this one also? Read me the signs. Tell me my fortune. Do I get to go I had to quote Buffy.

If we're going there, I'm gonna go there. I love it. That's from Prophecy Girl, in case you wanna know season 1, Buffy and Vampire Slayer. It's great. Jesus.

Shameless. I could do a whole classic. I could do a whole episode just talking about Bubby. Oh, what's the, what's the episode where the the thin men the white thin men, the smiling ones? Hush.

What episode is that? It's a season 4 episode oh, shit. I stumped you right away. I couldn't remember the number of the episode. I know the season.

I know the name. You ever seen that movie Big Trouble in Little China? You asked me this all the time, and you made me watch it, and it was horrible. Never seen it. I don't even know what you're talking about.

I don't remember you telling me that. Bizarre. It's so bizarre. I don't remember you telling me that, and I'm so offended. You are not offended.

I am So if Shiri watches it, then will you watch, like, Bridgerton? No. I can't get I'm not sure. I like a fair trade. No.

He still wants me to watch Das Boot for trade. There is. Not a single person who would ever agree with you, Amy, that that is a fair trade bridgerton for Big Trouble in Little China. Are you insane? I don't even know what that movie is.

Oh my god. It's like this horrible eighties weird movie. Horrible? Yes. I said it.

I'm sticking with it. Nothing to do. The movie without insulting it? There's a lot of things that I've seen and read and watched that you you you insult it regularly. I don't insult it.

I tease it. So that's what she's doing. I'm just teasing you. It's a piece of crap. Teasing.

Joking. Just jabbing at you. Yeah. I don't even know what it's about. I've never seen it.

So Oh, I tease tease about some of the stuff that you, consume. The one thing you don't do is you don't tease me about tarot, which is actually nice. Well, I gave you your first tarot deck. It would seem rude. I know.

Right? Well and, you know, I seems rude. Oh, that's a myth that we should I feel like But I'm not gonna if Yeah. The tarot does not equal your trashy romance novels. Trashy is also subjective.

Right? Amy's, like, melt into couch. Yeah. I'm about to be the couch. I'll, be back in a few after Tease you a little bit about your lady porn, and it's all of a sudden Lady porn is coming into vogue right now, so if I wanna mind your teasing cues.

I can do a whole episode on it if you want to. You know what? You know, we used to put pants on table legs because they were too sexy. Once upon a time, here we are. That sexy ankle that comes out the bottom of the dress, and people would be like, oh, the vapors.

Isn't that repressed? Yeah. Yeah. I could see that happening. Mhmm.

Mhmm. Yeah. You don't show your ankle, but your tits are out. Have you seen your tits? Declotage was always just like bosoms a go go.

Ankles were forbidden. Tata's were not, apparently. I had to give them something. Mhmm. A sample.

A little sample sample. Okay. But back to tarot. Time. A myth.

Well, yeah, back to tarot. A myth that we should I feel like we should debunk because you said you gave Lou her first deck. In order to get into tarot or to start with, like, your first deck, do you have to be given it, or can you just go purchase 1 because that's the one you were drawn to? You do not have to be given it. You want.

Yes. Thank you. Rules are made to be broken. So It's not a rule. It's just I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. It's like a myth. Somebody asks that a is that a is that a thing? Thing.

It's a thing. You know how many times I have to say at the beginning of at the beginning of tarot 101 what my tarot 101, my freshman tarot class, the first thing I say, you do not have to be gifted your first tarot deck. And everybody's like, are you sure? And I'm like, yes. I wouldn't spot one.

Fucking gatekeeping. Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. Then you just had to wait around.

It's almost like they treat it like the cat distribution system, you know, where it's just like you gotta just wait till one shows up and hope someone does. I'm doing that with DMT. Yeah. I mean, my first deck I bought a card. Ridiculous for tarot decks.

You could go to the Was it your first deck Light Seers? No. My first deck was a Nightmare Before Christmas. Oh, that's right. That's right.

I forgot. So another Disney deck. Go figure. It's not even one of my favorite movies, and I'm probably gonna get shamed for saying that. I think it's okay.

But, Wait. Nightmare Before Christmas? Yeah. It's not on my list of, like, top ten favorite Disney movies. Love that movie.

I it's senior year of high school senior year of high school, I rewrote the song Weird Al Yankovic style, what if what if to fit my high school year senior class. And I sang it at, and did a whole play at my high school year of the year. Is there a video of this? Can we watch it, please? Supposedly supposedly, his mother has it somewhere.

I'm sure. No. She doesn't. Oh, she doesn't? I thought she did.

I thought you just She hadn't even seen it. I know I would have. It would have been the first thing I got. Mean to track the down. So decreased lightning.

If you remember, you can look for lightning with my Volkswagen Bug. We brought it into the that used to be into, like, theater and, like, dancing and singing and stuff. I cannot picture you doing it, which is why I want proof. I'm Like, I need I need these receipts on this. I you're pretty cool.

I'm I've I've I've been there. Again, if you went to high school and, you're like, oh, I remember this. I was there, and you know someone with the video, please reach out and let us know because we must see this evidence. Like, I I have to. This is all fake.

Pretty embarrassing to watch. Sounds pretty classic. 17 years old. Oh, young age. So it's probably recorded on, like, what, a v a VHS?

Dangerous territory there, babe. Dangerous. Is it on a VHS tape? Probably. We're gonna need a VCR.

It would have to be. I have a VHS. This was, It's even better. 2,001. I shouldn't say it.

Doesn't matter. But Yeah. Another clue. So, again Early odds. Early odds.

So I guess you could say that I came out of the my shell. Sorry. No no 911 jokes. That's that's dope too soon. Too soon.

Yeah. This isn't the conspiracy theory episode. Right. Gotta save that for September. No.

That's a future project. Yeah. Night for next month. Mhmm. That'll be very fitting.

Intrusive thoughts are winning. Sorry. I have thought I have given serious when that happens. It's my favorite time with Amy. And so it's a good time when, actually, it's not.

It's questionable. So the place the the source that I learned the most about tarot where I've where I've, where I kinda centered most of what what I know about symbolism is Manley p Hall. And I've thought about putting together a tarot symbolism series of where I just go through the tarot symbols and what they mean where they come from and all that stuff because that's super duper fascinating to me and I can go suit I can go full focus on that kind of stuff. Is that something that you think would be interesting to do? Yeah.

Would you listen would you listen to something like that? Yeah. I always like getting people's takes on things, and there's always more you're you can learn about it. Like, I make videos myself where I work through the numerology or I work through the major arcana, and I explain, you know I interpret or give a couple of different meanings for the cards, and I go over the symbolism a little bit, but not in-depth because they're just short videos of things. So but I know how you work, and you go full ham if you took one card and just did a deep dive on it.

I can contribute music to it that people can listen to to help them understand. That's where I'm good at it. It's like getting a different perspective so that way you're not just so laser focused on interpreting the card one specific way. Because, like, most people, pinnacles. You see pinnacles.

Oh, money. I'm getting money or something with money. In reality, it's like, no. It's not always about money. Get out of, like, get out of that one singular perspective.

Broaden the way you can look at it and interpret it because, you know, like, when people ask the traditional question, is Tim gonna come back? We broke up. I want him back. Is Tim gonna come back? And if you get, like, 10 of pentacles, you're just like, oh, money.

But that has nothing to do with if Tim is gonna come back type of thing. So it's like Tim is never gonna come back. Tim probably shouldn't come back, so I don't know. But, anyways I probably left you for a reason. Right?

That's and that's normally the response people get after they ask that question. Do you want him back? Why would you want him back? Please explain you know, like, then it comes to Why do you want that back? Right.

What are you doing? Right. Because what is it? People are like His responsibilities. Well, I'm just saying.

That that that's a sin why you you asked the question. I'm just saying. Because of his responsibilities, maybe? What if they got a kid? I don't know.

Like but people don't You just say no. He's not coming back. Well, I mean, then you shuffle the cards and see what they say, and then, you know, some people are able to leave their biases out of it, especially if they know the individuals. Other people are not. But, like, that's that's the other part with tarot is, are you able to actually set aside whatever bias you might have and actually interpret the cards?

Because most people, when they read for themselves, they all want we all want a happy ending. Like, everything's gonna work out, and it's gonna be great. Nobody wants to be like, oh, my life's about to go to shit. Fuck. Yeah.

Yeah. Tarot is not for the weak of heart a lot of times. It's not. Like, there's been some really rough readings, like, that I've gotten personally that I'm just, like, I didn't wanna cry today, but I guess here we are now. Great.

Why doesn't my mom love me? No. Then that gets into the why does God hate me? This is this is weird, but the cards are telling me, were you adopted? I don't know.

That would be kind of entertaining to see. I've never seen that actually occur. That'd be kind of funny. Being intrusive thoughts winning. Like He was like Majority of the time, though, you're getting your feelings crunched up by tarot cards.

Yeah. If they're not I always say, like, if they're not kicking your ass on the regular, you're doing it wrong if you're reading for yourself. If it's not if it's not lighting a fire under you, if it's not motivating you, if it's not getting you out of the dumpies and you're just, like, woe is me or you're playing the martyr and tarot isn't helping you get out of that, you're doing it wrong. That's the way I think about it. Again, it's not all gonna be sunshines, rainbows, and butterflies because life isn't.

So why would your tarot cards be constantly telling you, you're gonna win the lottery. Everything's gonna be great. That person's gonna love you back. You're gonna, you know, have all these great jobs and, you know, all these things. But So a lot of times too, people are just like they're just they get the reading so that they don't have to do anything, and they don't realize that that you have to put the energy out to create that wave so that it can come back to you.

But if you just if you're just gonna wait around for for stuff to happen, then again, you're using tarot for the wrong things. It should just be guiding you to the next steps. You think there's ever that element of self fulfilling prophecy where, like Yep. Mhmm. You could just see cards, and then it whatever story you make up for the cards, you just end up living it out because that's what you manifest kinda thing.

Mhmm. That's what you're thinking? Power of thought is important. Power of the words you say, words or spells. All that stuff is true in a way.

I know it becomes kinda, like, cliche and campy because it gets said so much and it loses some of its meaning, but it's true. And that's why, like, even certain tarot cards, you know, you get the 7 of swords and someone's like, oh, liar, cheater, stealer. K. Can you come up with something different? Like Mhmm.

You are which is why, like, I regularly am rereading through books and doing different things or watching other people or or doing other, investigations and stuff because it is easy to fall into the traps of this is my canned answer every time this card comes out. You're no longer reading it. You're just again, you're starting to just self fulfill in the gaps to make it simpler and easier rather than looking at it. The 7 of swords is bright yellow. That's actually supposed to be a very positive card, but it's turned into this trope of liar, cheater, stealer.

Yep. They're cheating on you. Yep. They're lying to you. Yep.

They're this. When, you know, another interpretation for it is you're being creative in how you work through this problem. You're finding a a different solution to the problem. You're avoiding you're avoiding some possible friction because you're doing it in a smart way. You're being clever.

You're being all of those things. You're avoiding a battle because you're making it so you don't actually have to face that battle. You're skirting it. You're working around it. There's a lot of different ways that that can be interpreted as a positive card because if you're going off of color theory, with that card, it's actually supposed to be positive.

Supposed I mean, not that I believe in positive and negative. You know? Like, there's no cards that are good or bad. It's just one of those things. Like, that's a different interpretation for it, and I think that a lot of people fall into Amy, would you rate her in, please?

Sorry. My bad. I was, like, good. Yeah. Yeah.

We were talking about Arrow. I'm sorry. Did you wanna talk for a while? Has it been too long since you heard your own voice? Go for it.

No. I just thought it would be funny. The tower card too. Every time that card comes out, people automatically, like, pee their pants out of fear. Like, oh, no.

It's the tower. It's gonna be it's it's bad. Well, you know what? That one little aspect of you, it's so it's not even like, oh, I got the tower. I'm gonna you know, my boyfriend's gonna break up with me.

No. You got the tower, so could just be symbolizing one aspect of you where you were codependent on your partner has to go away because you can't be codependent on them. You know? Like, it's not always terrible because that's actually helping you grow as a person to stop being codependent on someone else. No.

It's very rigid. I it's a good point. You know, you both make really, really good points. Because I see it kinda the same way, but I would explain it, like, when I look at the cards, each card is it's kind of a meme in a way. Right?

And so when I'm reading a deck, I'm reading memes. Or if you've seen Transformers, you know that robot Bumblebee that only speaks in movie quotes and radio and stuff like that? It's basically kind of the same thing because little inside baseball. When I walk around and I'm feeling connection with things around me, like the what do I say? The spiritual world I'll see manifest syncretically around me and will help guide me in a way.

And tarot is like a direct channel of easy archetypes, almost like being able to, like a translator almost. It doesn't have to speak in images or circumstances around me or miracles or syncretisms or anything like that, you're able to just have a conversation with, the egg. So it's like meme language. Like I said, yeah. It's a it's a language, and then it's gonna come through in a different way for me than it is for Amy or than it is for you.

But like you said, it's it's Subjective kind of thing. Right? It's all a conversation. And if if you're one of those people who wants to have a down and dirty conversation and be real and truthful with not just yourself, but with your higher self, with your situation, with all the other stuff, and you're gonna be honest and open, not biased, not have, you know, already chosen what outcome you want to happen, but you're just open to just show me what it is, not what I think it is. Show me what it actually is.

Don't give me the, you know, fluff. Just lay it out there for me, and that's a more sincere and more honest way of dealing with those different energies that you interact with on the regular. It's having a open conversation with those energies, and that's the way I view it. Well said. So, like, when I know I'm, like, in a super sensitive mood, but I kinda need to know or feel like I need to know some information, I'll be like, oh, just for funsies, what what we got on this situation.

And that's kinda like my, this is just for fun. Please be nice. Take it easy on me. I know you're still probably gonna chew me a new one, but please don't yell at me and just be nice. Because I know I'm gonna get some I don't wanna know or don't wanna hear that I have to work on and focus on.

So I'm always, like, just for fun. That's my that's that's, like, my key for be nice, please. That you didn't cry today. That's like a wuss. Reflection.

I need and that's your I need a softball. Yeah. I need a more surface level, not not too deep of a reading right now because, again, I don't wanna cry today. Thank you. Because my higher self What a wuss.

Whatever. If you met my higher self, she's mean sometimes. Like, people think I'm mean. Higher self, Amy. Well, wouldn't you see that as if you were not if you were a better person, then your higher self would be a better person?

Mm-mm. No. No. It doesn't work that way? I don't see it that way.

Mm-mm. Mm-mm. Your higher self is, like, comes is like the is like the quintessential version of yourself that has no societal pressures, no rules, no laws, no morals, no any of those. It's the complete essence of your being, and that's the way I kinda see it is So if it's an essence of form. It's like taking a picture in raw.

Like, you you can rather than Like, I get what you're saying if you're nicer deterministic, isn't it? But So you can't change your you you have no control is what you're saying. In that version of a higher self, you're essentially just a puppet on strings. No. Because it's still you.

Well yeah. Their their job is to be able to help you. Your your higher self who doesn't give a shit. Get you. Yeah.

Because they don't give a shit that you have to get up and go to work at 7 AM. They're like, who cares? You actually need to focus on your growth spiritually or your growth, you know Well, if you can do that, and it won't yell at you. Well, sorry. Won't be mine.

That's what I'm tired about. Are you gonna pay my bills? Because some days, it's like, I don't care that you're tired. You're the dumb. See?

Exactly. Like, that's the like, your higher self is like, I don't give a shit that you just stubbed your toe. Get up. Go do the things. But aren't you on your journey to become your higher self kinda thing?

Yeah. Mhmm. So listen to it. Usually do. Otherwise, they just keep nagging you and just become more relentless.

It's not always fun. Carry too much guilt. My higher self is not like that at all. It likes me a lot. Well, I mean, we like us.

Me and my You get a kick me and my higher self are total bros, man. Oh, right. We're total We get a kick out of each other. He's my perfect wingman, man. Mhmm.

I am my higher self. Cult daddy. Dreamer of dreams. I need you to change change the dreamer of dreams to dream snatchers. Because when we have the Disney episode, that's what you're gonna do.

You're gonna be a dream snatcher. Yeah. What does that mean? Is that Taker of happiness? I don't know.

Dream snatcher. Yeah. You know, like, people are like, you're a dream killer. Dream snatcher. I already know when the Disney one comes up, it's gonna be it's gonna be a doozy, and I'm still listening, but I love it.

I don't care. The evil Disney corporation has locked your souls into its dark matrix, and I pity you. And then I'll tell you all the secrets when I get in club 33. It's fine. They're not gonna let you in there.

You don't have to trust me, Amy. Not today, but next week, we don't know, Nate. You need money. Money. Hey.

Let me pull some cards and tell you your fortune. Thank you. Yeah. Let me know. Amy gonna need to go is Amy gonna get a club 33?

I mean, you could get a dinner reservation in there if you want to. I'm getting dinner. I'm getting dinner. I mean, you can. You can do it.

They'll let you in a certain amount, But then there's the there's a real rich person person portion that they pay, like, a $100,000 a year or something like that to be a part of the club. It's ridiculous. Like, what could be there? It's just a bunch of rich people tricking each other off. I don't wanna see that.

But the sheer fact of wanting to know, I wanna know. That's what's happening underneath the Vatican. And you wanna go there, astral project down there, it's gonna be nasty. We've already had this discussion. I would try to figure it out.

I just have to get around figure out a way around all the wards first. Wards. I said the magic word. He said the word that's gonna just set him off. Like, it's Dungeons and Dragons.

Uh-huh. Mhmm. Mhmm. They work. They're great.

Well, I suppose that's a good place to end it. Well, this is, spoken. It's a bros. But don't describe it. It's nice to know you've reached enlightenment, babe.

It's You're just right on track. Reached enlightenment. We need to check cards. Yeah. Perfect.

Nate, grab grab your deck, read yourself real fast. Grab my what? I said grab a deck, read yourself real fast, and see if you if you made it. I want Katie to do it. I already know the answer.

I wanna see if she gets it right. You're gonna just pick whatever answer is opposite of whatever I pull. No. It's I already have it. I'm not a I'm not a cheater.

I'm a trickster. I'm a cheater. Okay. Now you are. You are a full on hand.

You're a little devil. My ethics operate on a more multi dimensional plane. It's nice to have a fight in it. He's like,