Book bans and challenges have reached unprecedented levels, with the American Library Association reporting 2,452 unique titles challenged in 2024. In this episode, the hosts engage with Amber Sheeran from MI Right to Read, to dissect the nuances between book bans and challenges, and explore their implications for community access to literature. The conversation emphasizes the importance of understanding diverse perspectives through literature and advocates for the right to read freely, while also touching on the legislative landscape surrounding book censorship.

Mentioned This Episode:

Website: MI Right to Read

Website: American Library Association’s List of Banned Books

___________________

Website: Lansing Community College Library

You are listening to Written in the Stars books and beyond, where hosts from the LCC Library sit down with writers, publishers, entrepreneurs, and literary enthusiasts of all types. Join us as we explore the very heart of the written word.

Hello, and welcome to Written in the Stars. Today we are talking about the subject of book bans and songs, censorship.

So today, my co host, John Szilagyi, and I have a guest here to help us better understand book bands and their impact. Please welcome to the show from the organization My Right to Read.

Amber Sheeran, Just like Ed.

Yeah, just like Ed. Welcome to the show, Amber.

Welcome, Amber.

Thank you.

Yeah, we'll go ahead and get started. So we're going to kind of start at the beginning. So, Amber, tell us, what's the difference between a book ban and a book challenge?

That's a great question. And honestly, it depends on who you ask.

So the American Library association or ALA defines it a little bit differently than Pen America defines it or other organizations define it. We tend to go with the ALA definition, but again, it depends on who you ask. So a banned book is a book that is inaccessible to people.

It has been removed from the shelves. It has been taken out of the collection. It has been made so that certain folks or a community are unable to access it.

A challenged book is a book that is somewhere in that process so it is fair.

And any patron is able to challenge a book, is able to go to their librarian and say, hey, I want to ask why this book is on the shelf, or, I don't like this book. I want it removed. You have the right to do that. As a patron of a library, you have a right to challenge that book.

It becomes banned when it actually is removed for other people. So again, we like to say that you can challenge it. That's part of a democratic society, is you get to redress your grievances to your government.

You're allowed to bring that up.

But when it's challenged, it goes through a process typically called a process of reconsideration, where the library director, the library staff will review that material and determine whether it should be removed from the collection. Most libraries have a process for that. So that would be kind of how you define it. But again, it depends on who you ask.

PEN America is a little bit more broad. They define most challenged books as banned. Their definition's a little bit broader.

So you've mentioned a couple times about PEN America. What is that organization and what does PEN stand for?

I guess I don't know what PEN is an acronym for, but they are another organization that works on a national basis. They collect data on banned books, on censorship. They do a lot of the similar work as American Library Association.

Just different organization, but they also help protect First Amendment and help protect the right to read and promote literacy and literature across the country.

So one other kind of follow up question, you mentioned a little bit about any patron can go in and challenge a book and talk to the library about that. And you mentioned a little bit about the process. But what do processes in a library kind of look like if a patron does come in and challenge a book?

What does the library's process often look like?

So most libraries, I want to say all libraries have, but that's not necessarily true. Most libraries have.

And all libraries should have what is referred to as a collection development policy, which dictates what books are put on the shelf and when books are weeded out of a collection. So weeding a book out means that, you know, there is a finite amount of space on a shelf. So you need to review that collection.

You find materials that might be out of date or maybe a book that just hasn't been checked out in 20 years and you decide that material doesn't need to take up that space on the shelf and it gets weeded out.

So libraries should have a policy again for collection development to determine which books they buy, what they add to their collection, and then when books should be removed, when they should be weeded. Part of that policy should also include a request for reconsideration policy, which is to say what that process looks like.

And I'll just speak very broadly because every library is going to write that policy a little bit differently. But generally it will say, you know, you can bring a book to your librarian and say, I have questions about this book. I want to know why is it here?

And then oftentimes you can refer back to that collection development policy and say, this is why we have that book. Different libraries have different collections. A public library versus an academic library.

Some libraries have a special collection of a certain kind of material that they might have more of. So you can refer back to that policy and say, this is why we have this book. And if that patron Says, well, I don't like this book.

I think this book is inappropriate. I want it taken off the shelves.

Then what most libraries will do is have them fill out a form that says why, explaining the reasoning they might object to in that material.

And generally, we ask that the patron has read that in its entirety, that they don't just find one swear word on one page and say, this entire book has to go. We ask, read it in its entirety, and if you still have a problem with it, let us know why.

Generally, then the librarian will read that material, review it, and then determine whether it does adhere to that collection development policy, whether it is material that will warrants being in the library. And ultimately, in most cases, for a public library that will go to its board of directors for a final decision.

The board of directors set those policies. They determine the policies of the library.

But it really is the trained librarians and library directors that should be the ones that review and make sure that that material adheres to the policy that that library has for the materials within their collection.

That's good information.

And to kind of clarify, too, and like you're saying, every library kind of has their own collection development policy, and there's different types of libraries. So just because a book is banned or challenged in one library system, you might find it in two towns over in their public library?

Very likely, yes.

Very likely. So what are some common reasons that a book is challenged or ultimately then banned maybe from that system?

So I will say, you know, books have been challenged and banned for thousands of years. As long as libraries have existed, books have been banned from them or challenged from them.

So throughout time, the reasons behind those have changed. Speaking in contemporary times, books are most often challenged due to what people might view as objectionable material. Depictions of sex.

It's often depictions of LGBTQIA characters or storylines. Those are often targets from banning, as are depictions of marginalized groups and often, sometimes historical facts.

You know, there's been some controversy of what do you teach in classrooms? And often those book banning trends kind of follow that.

So people that maybe don't want some of the uglier parts of maybe American history taught also don't want those books in their public library. But I would say currently, the number one reason books are challenged is based on gender, sexual identity, or orientation.

And it's often framed in the way of protecting children from that material, even though in most instances, that material is not meant for children in the first place. So that would be kind of, again, it depends on what you're looking at. In the specific community. But those are some of the trends that we're seeing.

So I guess can you talk a little bit more about when a book is challenged or ultimately ban, like, the impact that that can have, say, on communities or libraries or individuals?

Absolutely.

So I think speaking in terms of individuals, if a book is challenged because a character identifies, has a certain identity, be it sexual orientation, sexual identity, racial background, national origin, it tells people of that community that their stories don't matter as much. It tells people that they deserve a place on that library shelf.

But it also impacts other people that might pick up that book and read it and not be a part of that community to better have a window into that viewpoint, to see different perspectives. And I think often it impacts our ability to develop empathy for people that are different than ourselves.

If we don't have access to those stories about them and those viewpoints, it could impact how we see ourselves, how we see others.

And I think we live in a very polarized world, and it only aims to, in many instances, continue to make us more polarized if we are not able to better understand the stories of others.

So you talked a little bit about the kind of polarization and that.

But something that's interesting about book challenges and kind of these kind of speech topics is sometimes they don't really follow the, like, political dichotomy that we have. Like, there's challenges from both sides, and it doesn't necessarily adhere to, like, a single political ideology.

So I didn't know if you had any thoughts about that.

There's a quote.

We actually, in the My Right to Read store that we have a T shirt that has this quote on it that says a good library should have something in it that offends. So I think, again, you should. Every library should have materials that offer a wide range of viewpoints. And so you're right. Challenges.

It's not a left thing or a right thing. It does come from all sides. But I think we need to better.

Everyone on every side of every spectrum needs to be able to see and understand others so that we can continue to grow together as a community.

I think it's interesting too, as you were talking about, thinking about how because book bans and challenges have been around for a very long time, and thinking of the reasons that they're challenged kind of sometimes reflects what's happening in society and the conversations and things that are being going on around us. So I think sometimes we see that in the challenges that we see as well.

Absolutely. And you brought up at the beginning the ALA data about the books.

And then the next year it was 2,500.

And I think it only again reflects the broader community that we live in and a difficulty that all sides have on relating to people that might be different than themselves. Right.

That polarization. So tell us a little bit about the organization, My Right to Read. So tell us kind of what. What does that mean? And tell us a little bit about that.

We've been around for a very long time.

And the primary goals of the Michigan Library association are to advocate for libraries, to make sure that libraries throughout the state, whether they be public, academic, tribal libraries, special libraries, are funded and supported in whatever ways they need. So we offer professional development for library workers.

We offer advocacy at the state level, and we hope to again foster a stronger network of libraries. We worked very closely with the Library of Michigan that has the Michigan E Library Interlibrary Loan, where you can get materials.

And this arm really aims to speak not just to those folks working in libraries, but to the broader public as a whole, to educate folks about book banning, to educate folks about censorship and, you know, your First Amendment rights to access information. We think that that is critical to any democratic society that you should be able to access information.

And we offer, again, information to the public, but also training for libraries to help them develop those collection development policies if they don't have it, to teach them about what are their obligations to their community. And then we also offer financial support to libraries that might be facing legal challenges in Michigan and throughout the country.

There has Been a push in recent years from some, and I will say it is limited in Michigan compared to some other states.

But there has been a push to criminalize librarianship in some ways that, you know, if you don't like the book that's on the shelf, hold that librarian legally responsible for that. There have been prosecutors that have gone after librarians. There have been librarians that have lost their job.

And so if there is a legal issue at hand, we are there to help provide funds to libraries, to help support that mission and adhere to those pillars of librarianship and support the First Amendment.

So you mentioned a little bit about legislation, mostly in other states for criminalizing parts of librarianship, but there's also been other legislation in other states as well, kind of protecting the rights of librarians and of the right to read.

Yes.

And so have there been similar, I guess, pushes in the legislature in both regards? In Michigan, there have been.

So I don't know if it was the last legislative session or the session before that. I'd have to double check my facts.

But there was a push to essentially make a sectioned off area in libraries where you would put what would be deemed as objectionable materials.

There was no definition of what those materials were, but it basically said, you have to have a curtain in your library and you have to hide materials back there where some people in the public can't access it. That was not great legislation, and we worked really hard against that and luckily it didn't go anywhere.

And I will say legislators on both sides of the aisle kind of said, I don't think we want this to be legislation in Michigan. There are actually two bills right now in the House sponsored by Representative Paes and Representative Glanville, the My Right to Read bills.

And so they were first introduced in the last legislative session and they timed out and they died in our lame duck session.

But when the new legislative session opened, they were reintroduced and they have been assigned to a committee, but they have not seen a lot of momentum. So we do hope that they move forward, but time will tell on that.

And those bills require a library to have a collection development policy, like I said they all should. But they don't all necessarily. It requires that they have that.

It also requires that people that are challenging books come from the service area of that library.

So what we have seen throughout the country is people that might, you know, people in Tennessee or New York or California challenging books in Michigan libraries. They just pick a list of libraries and they, you know, there's a specific title or 20 specific titles they don't want in any library anywhere.

And so it dictates that in order for a challenge to be investigated, for a book to be reviewed, it has to come from somebody within the service area of actual patron of that library. It also would prevent a book from being challenged more than once. I believe it's every time two years.

So what we also have seen is that a book is challenged, it is read, it is reviewed, it is determined by the library director and by the board to fit with the clutch development policy to not be obscene material. And then immediately someone that doesn't like that result challenges it again.

And they have to go through this whole process again, which takes time out of the librarian's day that they can't spend on programming for, for their patrons. They can't spend on actually the fundamentals of their job. And then it also takes money they get paid. Librarians don't do it.

It's not a volunteer position. So that's money that the taxpayers are spending for them to review these same books over and over again.

And so what it does, it says once it has been reviewed, a decision has been made, the board okays that decision, the library director, and there's rationale behind it.

You have to wait a certain amount of time before you can challenge it again, just so that those librarians aren't just spinning their wheels over and over again. So again, it's two bills, they're tie barred together.

One speech to public libraries, one speech to district libraries, but the wording is essentially exactly the same. And those are in the Michigan House right now. And so I would encourage folks to reach out to the representatives to help push those bills forward.

So you mentioned one thing, another kind of legal thing as you were going through that of things being deemed not obscene.

Yes.

And so could you explain a little bit about what obscenity is and what that means?

Absolutely. So I think the famous quote is like, you can't define it, but you know it when you see it. But there actually is a definition for obscenity.

And it goes back to, it's a Supreme Court case and I don't know the year, but it was Miller v. Somebody. Because the end result of that is called the Miller test. And the Miller test determines whether something is deemed to be obscenity or not.

And the Miller test has three prongs to it and material has to hit all three prongs. So the first one is, is it of prudent interest basically in not using legalese? It means, does this material make you think about sex.

The second one is, is it patently offensive? Would a reasonable person look at this and be reasonably offended by that material?

And the third is, does the material in its entirety lack literary, scientific, artistic merit? So is, you know, again, if you look at. There's lots of books.

I know romance novels are big these days that maybe have one or two pages that might be a little spicy, but if you read that material in its whole, does it wholly lack artistic and literary merit? Book, movie, whatever the material is, has to hit all three of those things to be considered obscene.

Legally, I will say it's also, it's illegal to buy obscene material. So libraries don't really have it because if it fails that Miller test, they're not going to buy it.

I think you just spoke, too, as to why it's so important to read the entire book in its entirety rather than just that page.

Yes.

Yeah, for sure. So you mentioned, too, a few things about how people can get involved.

And you mentioned contacting, you know, your representatives and things like that. What are some other ways and maybe through your organization that people could become an advocate.

Yeah. So there is some information on the My Right to Read website.

So it's mirighttoread.com youm can also go to milibraries.org, which is the main page for the Michigan Library Association. You can find your way to My Right to Read through there.

There is information out there about how to become more involved, what you might like to do, but just as a basic level, I think, again, contacting your representatives, letting them know that you support legislation for the Right to read and you support your library. You can attend library board meetings. I think some people think it might not be the most fun thing, but nefarious things often happen in the shadows.

And so if you aren't paying attention to what's happening, it's good to go and attend and speak up, speak in support of your library on the My Right to Read website.

You can also join our coalition where you, you know, we don't send out a lot of emails, we don't fill your inbox, but if there is an issue that pops up in your backyard in your local library, we will let you know, like your library is facing this challenge, is facing this issue, so you can become a coalition member there to support your library. And I think at a very basic level, if you don't already have a library card, go get a library card for your local library. Just.

Just having that card goes into the data that gets fed to the state that shows, like, people are interested in their libraries, they're supporting their libraries, and it really. Even if you rarely check out materials, having that library card does make more of a difference than you think it does.

That is excellent advice, and I would advocate highly for that, too. Definitely get your library cards. And I would also add to that. Talk to a librarian.

Oh, yes.

There's a lot of misconceptions in this profession that, you know, we read books all day.

Yeah. The number of times that I've heard, like, working in a library must be great. You just get to sit around and read all day.

I want that job, too. But, you know, that's a pretty big misconception.

So I would say talk to your librarians, too, and, you know, see what they have to say about book challenges and why this book was purchased and things like that.

Yeah. I think most librarians would be more than happy to talk to you. If you have questions, they want to talk to you about that. And if you have.

Again, whether it's good or bad, if you have questions or concerns or comments, please. Yes. Talk to your librarian, ask them, and you'll find that they're gonna be more than happy to talk to you about these issues.

That's awesome. So this is all great information that you've given us today, Amber. But so I have one last question for both of you before we wrap it up today.

So, Amber, what's your favorite banned book?

What is my favorite banned book? That is a great question. So right now I have several. But the very first one that pops in my head is the Perks of Being a Wallflower.

Oh, great.

That has been banned a lot lately. And that came out when I was in high school. And I remember reading it in high school, and it just hitting me in all the right places.

And I loved that book. And so that was difficult to see that one challenged and see that one banned, because that one really impacted me a lot at a.

When that was the book I needed to read.

Yeah, that one hit me, too. And I kind of. It found its way into my hands at the right moment. Right. Which is when it's a really good book.

Right.

It just hits at the right time.

Yeah.

I also just want to add, too, I think the banning of books also speaks to an issue of equity and access, because a library might ban a book, but that book is more than likely still going to be available on Amazon. And so people that have the means often can still get it. It's the folks that don't have those means. That are most impacted by book banning.

And so it's an issue of equity that I think is often overlooked in that conversation.

That's a really good point. Really good point. So, John, what's your.

So I guess my choice would be a book that kind of came onto my radar at the right time as well and is controversial for lots of reasons nowadays, and that's Harry Potter. So, you know, there has been all kinds of challenges to Harry Potter, from the content of the book to the views of the author.

But my experience with Harry Potter, I first read the Harry Potter books when I was in college and getting a degree in English and reading like serious literature and that kind of thing.

And my cousins who were elementary school age had the Harry Potter books and we went to visit them one Thanksgiving and I read the first three books like over Thanksgiving weekend and then quickly the fourth one. So Harry Potter would be mine.

Gotcha.

Gotcha.

Mine I would offer up is To Kill a Mockingbird.

Oh, great book.

Yeah. Great book. And I'm so sad that others would not get to share in that book.

Yeah.

So. Yes. Well, thank you so much, Amber, for being here. Gave us a lot of great information today and we really appreciate having you on our show today.

Thank you for having me. Yes.

And you can check out myrightoread.com if you'd like to hear some more information. And we'll also have everything listed out in our show notes today, too. Thank you for being here, Amber.

Thank you so much, John. Thanks.

You have been listening to Written in the Books and Beyond. Visit lcc.edu library to find the titles discussed in this episode.

You can find previous episodes of Written in the Stars and other LCC connect shows@lcc connect.com in the words of Miguel D. Amuno, I hope, reader, we shall meet again and we shall recognize each other.