In this episode of the Connected Pleasure Podcast, I’m joined by Dr. Jordin Wiggins —naturopathic doctor, author, coercive control clinician, and dominatrix-trained pleasure strategist—for a powerful, nuanced conversation about desire, power, and why so many successful women feel disconnected in their intimate lives.

Jordin works with women who have done “everything right” on paper—careers, families, achievements—yet feel numb, exhausted, and unseen in their relationships. Together, we explore the concept of “super traits”: extreme empathy, loyalty, forgiveness, and over-functioning, traits that often lead women into relational dynamics where desire disappears and intimacy becomes extractive rather than nourishing.

We unpack why traditional therapy and common relationship advice often fails women with super traits, how power imbalances go unaddressed in patriarchal models of intimacy, and why pleasure is not the reward for healing—but the reset that makes real connection possible.

This conversation also dives into:

1. How over-functioning and under-functioning dynamics erode desire and safety
2. Why scheduling sex, “just setting boundaries,” or trying harder often backfires
3. The role of sexual coercion and invisible power contracts in long-term relationships
4. How patriarchy harms everyone—including men—and why more men are now seeking this work
5. Pleasure as a nervous system capacity, not a performance
6. The importance of learning to tolerate sensation—both pleasure and pain
7. Feminine and masculine energy, safety, and the ability to truly receive
8. What BDSM teaches us about consent, power, desire, and embodied choice

Jordin shares how her own journey—from chronic health issues and a sexless marriage to pleasure-centered healing—led her to integrate functional medicine, trauma awareness, and embodied power work into a method that helps women move from survival-based intimacy into true receiving.

This episode is an invitation to question the stories you’ve been told about love, sex, and responsibility—and to remember that desire must be freely chosen, not managed, negotiated, or earned.

Pleasure is not indulgent.

It is information.

And it is a pathway home.

Connect with Dr. Jordin Wiggins

1. Instagram: @drjordinwiggins
2. Take the Super Traits Quiz
3. Listen to The Pleasure Principles Podcast

If you’re feeling called to stay in touch with Kayla:

1. Join the waitlist for the Sacred Desire course
2. Book your Liberation Wisdom session
3. Join my Newsletter Community
4. Support this podcast and leave me a tip!
5. Book 45 minute consultation
6. Email me at kayla@connectedpleasurecoaching.com with any questions

Welcome, beloveds, to the Connected Pleasure Podcast.

I am your host, Kayla Moore, certified sex therapist turned pleasure priestess and feminine liberation coach.

This is a sacred space where we burn down the old narratives and rise into a new way of being, one led by intuition, pleasure and embodied truth.

Together, we explore sexual healing, feminine liberation, and the reclamation of your sovereign power in a world that benefits from your disconnection.

In every episode, we peel back the layers of indoctrination, remember what is ours, and weave pleasure back into the collective consciousness one brave conversation at a time.

You belong here.

Your pleasure belongs here.

Let's rise.

This podcast is for education and inspiration only.

If you're wanting to explore pleasure more.

Fully for yourself, I invite you to go deeper with me through the offerings linked in the show notes or through.

The offerings of my guests.

If you're unsure whether one of these containers or a therapeutic approach would best.

Support you, you're welcome to schedule a free 45 minute consultation with me.

Together we can explore what path is in your best interest.

And if I am not the right fit, I'll be glad to connect you with the resources you need.

Welcome back, beloveds, to the Connected Pleasure Podcast.

I am Kayla Moore, your host.

I go by she, her hers, pronouns.

And today I am with a new guest, Dr. Jordan Wiggins, who is a naturopathic doctor, author, coercive control clinician and dominatrix trained pleasure strategist for women who have checked all the outward boxes of success in life, but feel unseen and disconnected in their relationships.

She exposes why desire and connection disappear in relationships where women over give and why no amount of therapy, communication or willpower has worked.

Through her pleasure centered method, she gives women from survival based intimacy into true receiving.

Because pleasure is not the reward for healing, it is the reset that makes real connection possible.

So amazing to have you and that is such a rich bio that has so many different things in it.

So tell me, do you like Dr. Wiggins or Jordan?

Actually, Jordan.

Jordan.

Okay, tell me Jordan, how.

How did you get into this work and doing all these different things?

There's naturopathic doctor, author, course of control clinician.

I want to know more about that.

And Dominic had you go from an author to doing multiple or I mean a doctor to dominatrix, like multiple dominatrix trainings?

Well, yes, talk about it.

Yeah, tell me all about that.

You know, it's the whole we teach what we know or what we had to heal.

So it was really my personal journey over the last two decades where I initially had health issues, hormone issues, I Kept getting.

We're gonna go there.

I guess everyone will get to know me intimately.

I kept getting these recurrent cysts in my vagina.

They're called Bartholin cysts.

It's.

It's quite common, actually, like, 25% of women get one in their lifetime.

But of course, we don't talk about it because it's a woman's intimate area.

Right.

Anyway, so with my hormone issues and with those cysts that led me to becoming a naturopathic doctor, and I thought that those were all the tools that I would need to help women heal and have fulfillment and energy and to be able to live the lives that they desired.

Yeah.

And then I was realizing with the best functional medicine, testing hormone prescriptions, like the best that medicine and Chinese medicine had to offer, was women were lacking fulfillment and lacking desire.

So that's when.

And it was mirroring my own journey at the time.

I had everything that I said I wanted on paper.

I was running a successful business, just bought a new house, but I wasn't fulfilled.

I was in a sexless marriage.

And it was just sort of this functional depression kind of thing, which I now then.

I. I know now.

And back then I started to treat like, what?

This isn't only me.

This is all of the women coming to my clinic that they're.

They're okay on paper, but they're not fulfilled, they're not alive, they have no desire.

That erotic piece of us was missing.

And there really wasn't any tools in my toolkit at that time to help.

So then I started my own.

My own pleasure journey.

Yeah.

Reading journal, journal articles, books.

I did Mama Gina School of Womenly Arts, and I started this.

That was like 12 years ago.

Now.

I'm.

It's embarrassing almost like, how long I've been doing this.

And anyways, then I was sort of at this new.

This new peak of fulfillment and satisfaction, and I was making a shift out of all these boxes and paradigms in the way that I thought I had to live my life.

So I closed my women's health clinic and started doing women's retreats and women's groups and just coaching and work that felt fulfilling on a really deep level.

So that's what I've primarily done for the last, I don't know, six years.

And I got.

I. I got divorced.

And I. Yeah, I just really started living life the way that felt in alignment for me and not for other people.

I'm.

I'm rambling.

There's one more little piece in that.

Yeah.

Keep going.

Then I realized in.

So in that whole journey, I wrote a book, the Pink Canary, which is about pleasure and women's sexual health and wellness.

And I started the Pleasure Principles podcast.

So just the number of women kind of raising their hand to say, me too.

This is my experience too.

I, I have what fulfillment should look like on paper.

You know, I got the degrees, the job, the certification, have the kids, the house.

But I'm not happy.

I'm crawling outta my skin.

I don't feel like myself.

But almost not even having the permission to raise their hand and say they don't feel happy because things look so good from the outside looking in that I looked even deeper and realized because then, then my focus was about pleasure and sensation and tolerating sensation, healing trauma and our nervous systems.

But then I realized that the select group of women that I worked with had super traits.

And this is Sandra Brown's research.

I've sort of adapted it to fit the thousands of women that I've worked with over the last 12 years total.

And these super traits are having like being extremely hardworking.

So when things go wrong, when things go wrong in your life, in your relationship, your instinct is to fix or over give.

Yeah, it's extreme empathy, extreme loyalty, extreme forgiveness.

And these are all.

They're traits that make people that have them amazing.

Very successful, usually in career, but very.

It makes intimate relationship a challenge because we don't put ourselves on the map and our needs on the map.

And this is initially I was noticing it with women and women with super traits and sex, but it really affects every layer in every aspect of their lives.

Yeah, yeah.

I think that's so needed in our world.

I was just sharing with you that I am starting in my priestess training and we are working with the archetype of the Great Mother right now.

And there's kind of this duality to the great mother of being the mother, but then also being like the child and the mother's arm.

So this basically like providing the container and then also being the one to receive what is in the container.

And I think, I think that's kind of like what you're saying, that some of the shadow sides of the mother are exactly what you're describing, that we're overdoing and over being and trying to find our value in trying to care for others without really honoring who we are and what we need as women too.

And I think we're really starting to try and shift that.

I think we've been doing that, but especially right now, there's a lot of people that are like, I know that this isn't working for me, but just like you said, I'm doing all the things and I don't know what else to do differently.

So I love that you're working on that with women and saw that in yourself too and said, I need to do something different.

Yeah, that and because I had super traits, I had researched, listened to podcasts, gone to therapy, done right.

Even in my healing.

Okay, so I'm gonna do emdr.

I'm gonna do all these things.

And without looking at things through the lens of super traits, it was problematic.

So, for example, if a person that has super traits, they're generally like, to put it simply, an over functioner.

And usually their partner is an under functioner.

So a small example would be the over functioner would always be the one planning, right?

Planning vacations, planning date nights, keeping the connection alive.

The over functioner is usually the one to repair if there's an issue.

Right.

It's we're very hypervigilant and we can tell when things are off, so we're the ones to initiate that.

With sex and intimacy, it's usually two ways.

My cat doesn't like snowstorms.

Okay.

Cats are welcome.

So those always being the one giving a little more and with our attention being out and focused on others, being that caregiver and nurturer of everyone else first and then ourselves last, it sets us up for this really big power imbalance.

Our relationships end up extractive over time and we can't figure it out.

We think we're being so loving and so nurturing and so caring and we're trying so hard that when it's not working, we're legitimately conflict confused and generally couples therapy.

And actually this would be a fun conversation to have with you because with my clients, they've generally found that couples therapy has not been helpful for them because it doesn't address the super traits.

It, it assumes that both people are equally putting effort in to fix the relationship, that both people have equal, you know, capacity and tolerance and emotional intelligence and all these things.

When my client has the super traits and is far more capable, far more forgiving, far more tolerant, and the relationship centers around the under functioning partner.

And therapy doesn't usually address that.

It usually puts both people on equal footing, which is still extracting from the over giver and doesn't really help.

Right.

What do you think?

I don't know if I've ever had that reflected back to me, but I do agree I do agree that if you aren't addressing the power imbalances within the relationship, then yeah, it definitely, I could definitely see where that's coming from.

I think I tend to come from the lens of like patriarchal structures and how that has pinned men and women into different roles.

And so I tend to talk about the imbalances in terms of like.

Well, women have been conditioned to operate in this way to be more relational, to take care of everyone, to take on the like emotional burden of their relationship and that men have to work on that, that they have to be able to be able to talk about their inner self and look at that and meet their partner in a way where their partner feels emotionally cared for.

Usually because we're working toward intimacy.

And a lot of times men are seeking sex for all the different needs that they have because that's the only thing that they've been told is okay for them to get connection in is sex.

And women have been taught kind of the opposite.

To seek connection, to get emotionally.

Yeah.

To get emotional connection, to communicate, to even often like spend time with somebody and again like feel safe in that space.

And they've been doing so much that oftentimes it's hard to like be in that room.

Receptive space.

So I don't know if I've ever looked at it through exactly what you were saying, but I, I think you.

Are coming at it still from that dynamic.

Right.

So if the man is under functioning.

Right.

In other areas of intimacy, like you're.

Yeah.

Calling him and inviting him into that.

So you for sure, you're, you're addressing it.

Yeah, yeah.

And that makes so much sense that if, yeah.

If therapists are not addressing that, that it's not going to be helpful for the couple.

That's for sure.

Yeah.

And individual therapy and all that.

Totally different.

And I'm not saying that like I love therapy.

I think it's amazing.

I think we should all do therapy.

But when we have one partner with super traits that's an over functioner and we have one partner that's an under functional functioner.

Traditional therapeutic models will not work because they don't apply to that situation.

They are patriarchal.

They're like baked in empathy and they center men and the men's needs.

Yeah.

When really.

Yeah.

And that's my work is centering pleasure and for everyone involved.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so I'm also systems trained that as a marriage and family therapist.

We're trained in systems and how systems are interconnected.

And so when we talked about over functioning and under functioning in systems.

A lot of what I was taught was like, the over functioner has to stop doing that.

Like they have to like pull back kind of like the, well, if I don't do the dishes, nobody else will.

It's like, well, leave those dishes in the sink for as long as it takes for somebody else to come along and finally figure out that they need to step up and do it.

I don't know if that's always like super realistic.

It's kind of like the idealistic way of looking at it.

But is there any truth to that and how you work with the kind of over functioning, under functioning dynamic?

In my early days, yes.

But not, not anymore because.

And yeah, we do have our own healing work to do as the over functioner for sure.

Because we learned belief systems that, you know, we had to earn love and our value was what we contribute, that we weren't inherently worthy of love and affection as we are.

So there's those abandonment fears and things that come up when we stop over functioning.

Yeah.

So, and, and controlling to feel safe.

Right.

So the, we're always focusing on like ourselves, our side of the street, what we can control.

And unlearning those beliefs is a big thing.

And I find my clients that, that just leave the dishes in the sink.

It that approach again doesn't work because then there is some form of punishment, there's some form of withdrawal of love or like there's some attempt to regain power and control about the dishes.

So yeah, it's a little more, it's a little more nuanced or yeah.

You know, do things for yourself, go out with your girlfriends or let your partner care for the kids and that kind of thing.

But when that's weaponized and she comes home and the house is in a disaster state and so are the kids, then she learns like, you know, it's just easier for me not to ask.

It's just easier for me to stay home.

Yeah.

So yeah, just, just leave the dishes or just take time for yourself or those like those first kind of line interventions or suggestions.

They won't work for a woman with, with super traits because there's more layers.

Yeah, yeah, I agree.

I totally agree.

I.

So it's, yeah, it's interesting that that is kind of how we're first taught how to treat that and noticing that like you said, it can either be just unhelpful or it can actually reinforce the pattern that's happening.

It can, yeah, it can be more damaging.

And that happened to me Where I was the over functioner and through many therapists and, and coaches.

And I was blamed, like, we'll just stop being so anxious and overbearing and controlling, like essentially.

Right, I'm.

I'm paraphrasing, but yeah, the.

Just, just don't do the dishes or stop being controlling.

But that was never really the issue.

The issue was like I was taking over responsibility in all areas.

And then the under responsibility or under functioning was bordering on like emotional manipulation and abuse and other types of coercive control.

And no one saw it like, no one.

Right.

Because they assumed equal accountability, equal willingness to change and work on things when that wasn't the case at all.

So that's why I'm like screening.

Because sexual coercion is, is massive.

And in that patriarchal gender role, the way that we're taught to do heterosexual relationships and heterosexual sex and intimacy.

Intimacy is very male centered and male focused.

Right.

It's for sure.

It's not about mutual pleasure.

Yeah.

It's about penis in vagina.

Wait, did I, I forgot to ask if I.

Are there off limit words on here?

No, there are no off limit words.

Okay.

I didn't think so, but I wanted to be sure.

We just started chatting and I forgot.

Yeah, like penetrative sex as the focus.

But only one third of women reliably orgasm from penetration, so.

Right.

Then we have the orgasm gap and then we have like men's.

Right.

How you mentioned that they're taught to seek intimacy through mm sex and that's how they're allowed.

Right.

And then there's this sense of entitlement to women's bodies and they're entitled to pleasure and entitled to sex every so often.

And then when they don't get it, then they're moody, then they withdraw love, then they, you know, punish or criticize.

So a lot of my clients are with these super traits.

They're caught up in these power dynamics and they don't even know what sexual coercion is.

And they've spent years and hundreds of thousands of dollars in therapy getting suggestions like, you know, go on dates, schedule sex.

Right.

And when you have super traits, being told to schedule sex is inherently reinforcing the bad pattern.

Because who's doing the scheduling, who's doing the follow up, who's planning the child care, who's making sure the sheets are clean?

The over functioner, it's the person with super traits.

So it inherently puts more responsibility on the over functioner and continues to let the under functioner skate by.

Yeah, yeah.

So what is your solution to all of this?

How do you help women get out of those power dynamics?

And you know, hopefully there are some men too that are willing to like do the work and also get out of those dynamics as well.

And you know what?

That I'm happy that you said that because oddly enough, I'm getting more and more men listening and I'm getting more and more men private clients, which is very odd because like my branding is pink.

I market to women, you know, but there's men that are listening to my podcast and they're like, they DM me and they say like, this is me.

Like you called me out and I don't like, they're acknowledging their benefit from the patriarchy and from the relationship structure and from being in a relationship with a woman with super traits.

And they're like, e. Like, this is me.

And I'm ready to raise my hand to work on this part.

So that's amazing.

And um, and because those systems damage men too.

Yeah.

And in it, my work was like a lot primarily with women, but it's really cool to see men going, oh yeah, you're right.

Like I'm, I. I do need to fix this if I want.

Yeah.

A healthy relationship.

So that's really cool.

But that was a tangent and now I forget what you have to me.

Just what, what is kind of your brand of solution to all of this and how do you work with that dynamic to help move them through that?

So first we work on the beliefs and like deconditioning our super traits because they're amazing.

But women that have been in that hyper vigilant people pleasing.

I need to earn love since childhood.

They need a whole new method of how to relate.

Right.

So that's the pleasure centered method.

But I.

In a nutshell, it's a massive part of it comes from the awareness just by learning what their super traits are, learning a healthy framework for connection and intimacy.

When you have super traits and then the actionable things that I have them do, which like it's sort of.

They get to pick their own.

It's like a menu of what works for them personally.

But breath work, meditations, tantra, like it's learning to be more present with sensation because one of the biggest.

And this is, it's pleasure and pain, which are two different sides of the same coin.

They mostly come to me wanting more pleasure.

It's like, okay, if we want more pleasure, we are increasing our capacity to feel.

And that means feel all things.

Yeah.

Because it's working on that ability to let people be disappointed in you and know that it's not like if you're not meeting their every need, it doesn't mean anything about you.

And to be able to say, no, I don't want to have sex tonight.

Yeah, I don't feel like it.

Or you know, have a hell yes as well.

Like I.

Like I'm in.

Which is so erotic in my opinion, to have the yes and no.

When her only frame of reference before was, what does my partner want?

Or if I have sex now, can I not for three weeks.

Mm.

And.

Or how long can I get em off my back for sort of thing.

So yeah.

Yeah.

Deconditioning those inherent beliefs that we have, using a bunch of techniques to help us increase our ability to feel and be comfortable with lots of sensation.

Good sensation like orgasm and then difficult sensation like grief.

Because for them to even start healing.

I always describe having super traits and being in a relationship.

It's like you're holding a lump of coal and putting in all the effort to turn it into a diamond.

And then they need the capacity in their nervous system to let go and like, look at what's actually there.

Yeah.

Which requires a wide range of feelings.

Yeah.

Like anger, which women aren't generally allowed to feel, like grief.

So I'm like really working on increasing their capacity to feel.

And then the fun part comes in which is having more pleasure.

And I thought that was step one before, but now it's my step three that I understand.

Super traits because I thought focusing on pleasure was the answer.

Right.

Having the baths and setting better boundaries and all those things.

But really there's way more steps that need to happen ahead of time.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think it's so interesting too that there's so many different modalities out there.

And I think if I was a client, which oftentimes I still am, it can be hard to sift through things and be like, what is going to work for me?

What modality is going to work for me?

And it's interesting that I think a lot of modalities kind of say the same things, but just in different ways.

I haven't read the super traits book, but I wonder for you to.

I guess.

How do I phrase this?

To me, I feel like some of these traits, or maybe all of them almost come from like a trauma response to the history that we have had in our patriarchal system that women had to really, like, figure out, how am I going to survive in this dynamic that is happening?

And when, you know, we had A lot of different dynamics that happened before, like the 50s.

But I think the 50s were a definite like, reboot of patriarchy, of like bring those women back into the household after they had been like out in the workforce for World War II.

And then we're going to push the men out into the workplace instead of working like in, in or around the home space so they could actually be part of the family still.

It was like, we're really gonna separate these two.

And I think women have been like clawing back what we can from that dynamic.

Makes sense.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But it has kind of created this place where it's like women have to be everything and all the things.

And I know there are some people in the spiritual community that really don't like feminism for that reason.

I personally think it's just like we had to do the steps.

It's like each step was not the full blown thing yet.

And it definitely had problems and definitely had issues and it was not intersectional and all the things.

But we had to like, take the steps to get to where we are now.

And I think this step now is like, okay, we got to this place where we're doing a lot of things, but it's too much.

Like we gotta like pull it back and find our center again.

Come back to like, where's my power?

That feels aligned and good and healthy to me.

Instead of still being in kind of this trauma response to what we've experienced either in our own lives or just kind of in like our lineage.

How does that sit for you?

Yeah, I completely agree with everything you said.

And that healing, that response, that's this the first step everybody has to take.

Well, the awareness, in my opinion, like, we need to know it's there.

Because if you have super traits, you think that how you're engaging, relating is loving, but really it's like death in slow motion.

Like we're.

Yeah, we're.

And that's from the health side of things.

I was seeing what was happening to women, like cellularly, their hormones, their inflammation, and it would.

Then they would get an autoimmune disease diagnosis or a breast cancer diagnosis.

So like coming at it from the health stuff first and then trying to work on things from that level, but realizing, oh my goodness, like, even if we manage everything from the health perspective, but she doesn't feel safe in her body, she doesn't feel safe in her relationship.

And sometimes she has an amazing, well meaning partner.

And that like, that is true sometimes.

And when she can heal those trauma responses, then her partner Willingly steps up into that place.

And he was sort of like, oh, I was waiting for that, you know.

Yeah.

And then sometimes it's not so easy.

And then he like begrudgingly has to give up all those benefits that the patriarchy has given him as the male in those gender roles if he wants, like a loving, connected relationship.

Yeah.

Or just loses them all together.

Like you.

A lot of women are getting divorced because they're like, no, I'm not doing this anymore.

And I can't.

My.

My friend's daughter is 18, 17, anyway, somewhere around there.

And she's.

Her and her friends are all very much like, don't really care about marriage.

Like, it's just the.

Even still looking back, I was very career oriented and everything and I thought, I'm, you know, I'm gonna get my degree, start my business, but.

And then I'll get married and have kids.

But it was still like I.

It really felt like a have to for me, like on.

On those boxes that I had to tick and.

Mm.

So.

Yeah.

Not only are women getting divorced at a massive rate, but also young women don't even want to get married because they've so clearly see the path set out for them.

And with the freedoms of feminism that feminism gave us, even though it isn't perfect, they have the ability to.

To choose.

And a lot of them, it like, relationships aren't the flex anymore.

Being married for, you know, 15 years.

Right.

But you're miserable.

Like.

Right.

That's not impressive.

That's not what people are celebrating.

Right.

Celebrating like happiness and health and fulfillment is more what I'm seeing a lot.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And relationships that look different.

Right.

My best friend is married and she lives in New York City and her husband lives in Philadelphia.

I'm like, who's a Pennsylvania or Philadelphia?

But again, my American geography is not good.

And it works for them.

And they like, they know when they see each other.

Like, they kind of work during the week, they spend weekends together, they travel.

Like, it's amazing.

But it looks very non traditional outside looking in.

Yeah.

So she still has a lot of her freedoms and like can basically live life single during the week and then have a husband on the weekend, which I'm like, I think that might be my next thing, long distance marriage.

But we'll.

We'll see.

Mm.

Yeah.

And I think, Yeah.

I think as we move into the future, the structures of how we do certain things or that we are committing ourselves to are going to change dramatically.

I think we're going to be a lot More fluid in that.

And the only thing that I'm like, I hope we're not losing this in future generations is just, like, what it means to love and what it means to, like, be in relationship to someone else.

It doesn't mean you have to be, like, tied to them in a legal contract, but not be so afraid of relationships because of what we've seen, that we're just not willing to even be in relationship to people.

Because I also do really think that community is part of our way forward too.

And we have to, like, learn how to be in relationship to other people and ask for help and, like, live alongside of each other again instead of just in these, like, siloed units that.

We'Ve been put into with everybody on a screen.

Yeah.

So I hope that that's something that we can still be, like, brought into this conversation too, of, like, loving ourselves and hopefully through that, being able to still like, open our hearts and love other people in whatever relationship or capacity that's in.

Doesn't have to be in a heterosexual marriage, but.

And I hope, yeah, the way that it's going and looking.

And it's mostly daughters of my clients that are a bit older.

My daughter's 5, so it's a little too soon for her and her friends to see how that's going to shake out.

But daughters of my clients or daughters of my friends that are a little older, they seem to be finding the community with their friends and building that connection with their girlfriends and having fulfillment that way.

Like, they're.

They support each other, like, emotionally.

Anyways, it's.

It's interesting, but I do wonder what that means for.

For sex and intimacy in those younger age groups.

Yeah, it'll be interesting.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, part of the work that I'm wanting to do eventually is healing both the divine feminine and the divine masculine energies in all people, but especially in a heterosexual relationship for this reason too.

And like, we all have both divine and.

Or both divine feminine and divine masculine energies within us.

We all created from a sperm and an egg.

And I think because our society has been so suppressed in our divine feminine that everyone has kind of been in overdrive in masculine.

And it's kind of gotten twisted and turned into this very, like, corrupted thing.

And so I think it's really interesting to maybe look at, like, what does it look like for us to bring back the divine feminine?

That's kind of.

It sounds like what your work is.

It's really helping women, like, reclaim that part of themselves and heal those wounds that we have had and feel like I can be aligned in myself again.

But then also looking at the divine masculine and knowing that that's also a part of us and that's the like, doer part.

That's like the more linear part.

But how do we bring that into a place of, like, we're not doing out of obligation.

We're not.

Or fear.

Or fear.

We're like holding the container for the feminine creative energy to be safe in.

And we can create from a place of authenticity and then also have the tools to like, bring it into the 3D world.

It's like the masculine kind of holds the container and is in a place of integrity and in.

In like a center space, but from a place of like, deep knowing of who you are and being connected and rooted and grounded.

And then the feminine energy, I kind of just think of this, like, wild potential energy that could just like, go anywhere and do anything and wants to be wild and free.

And those two together kind of co.

Create to bring something into reality.

And so I think there's a lot of trauma that has to be worked on in all realms.

Like intergenerational trauma.

Intergenerational trauma.

Women have to get to a place where we can, like, feel safe again.

And men need to be able to really understand, like, the fear and lack of safety that women have felt for so long.

And just like we all, you know.

Yeah.

Would be massive.

Massive for everyone.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And my understanding of masculine and feminine comes from the study of Chinese medicine.

Yeah.

And my women with super traits don't generally have an issue with that.

Like, they're the masculine container.

Right.

For everyone and everything in their life.

For everyone.

Exactly.

They need.

Exactly.

To learn how to be that feminine flowy energy.

Yeah, yeah.

And be able to receive.

But we can't really be in a receptive place until we feel safe enough to do so.

And that there's like, somebody.

I guess you don't really have to have a somebody, but if you have a somebody and they're not being in integrity and not holding safety for you, then it's not gonna feel safe either.

So, yeah, I think that's a really important piece.

And then, you know, obviously men doing the work to like, bring into their being, like, what does it mean for me to be in my femininity, but also having this more like, grounded, loving, aligned masculine instead of this, like, control over masculinity.

Yeah.

Power over.

Yeah.

Power over which.

Yeah.

Desire needs to be freely chosen, not controlled so, yeah, they need to learn definitely a new way of doing it.

Yeah.

And I'm always starting with.

It's very simple with the men when I'm starting it, generally, but it's that, like, there's this inherent belief that their thoughts and feelings are fact and women are crazy.

Too much, too sensitive, et cetera.

Right.

So just by balancing that power imbalance that does wonders for people's relationships.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh.

Dismantling the patriarchal conditioning that we've all been under.

Yeah.

Well, this is fun.

This is one little drop of improvement that can hopefully.

This podcast can hopefully have some ripple effects.

Yes, yes.

Or almost out of time.

I know you have to go.

I wish I would have had time to ask you about your dominatrix stuff.

Cause I. I'm sure that all plays.

A part into this really, really quickly.

Okay.

So I.

In this.

In this journey, I needed to understand power dynamics.

And as the person with super traits that I am, I did.

Same here, girl.

Same here.

Doctor certifications, so.

Right.

So the more clinical term is coercive control, and those are underlying elements in all of the women with super traits relationships from a, like, medicalized standpoint.

Yeah.

And that helped and it gave me some good knowledge.

But then I needed to understand power and control from a.

A deeper level, and BDSM was that answer.

So I did a couple certifications as a dominatrix just to understand it more from the embodied, lived experience.

And when there is consent and there is a yes and a no.

Like, there's just so many beautiful things about the BDSM community that, yeah, heterosexual relationships, like, stereotypically have none of.

It's all this implied consent in these sort of invisible power games and contracts that we signed that we didn't know we signed because we have these gender roles.

So.

Yep.

Yeah.

BDSM was just a really fascinating way for me to have lived experience of.

Of power dynamics.

Cool.

So I incorporate that into my work as well.

So.

Cool.

I mean, that really takes it to, like, instead of just having the information in our heads, we have to embody it.

So sometimes for it to really, I. I would say most of the time, we have to embody it to know it.

Safe dominance look like.

And healthy embodied submission.

Yeah.

Look and feel like.

So that was.

That was that.

Awesome.

Awesome.

Well, can you let anyone know that's listening how they can get in touch with you and anything that they should know that you have going on currently?

Yeah, you can find me on Instagram Dr. Jordan Wiggins.

I have a super Trait Quiz.

I will.

I'll send you the link so everyone can have it.

If you're wondering if you have super traits, just take the quiz.

It's three minutes.

It'll give you your profile.

People usually find it quite quite telling.

They feel very seen taking that so and I have my podcast, the Pleasure Principles podcast with Dr. Jordan Wiggins if you want to hear more about my work.

Beautiful.

Well, thank you so much Jordan for being here.

I've really enjoyed this conversation that we had.

I feel like we are very aligned in the things that we're doing and.

Thank you so much for having me.

Of course.

I hope to maybe have you on again in the future.

I would love to.

Awesome.

Okay, well until my next episode, I will see and talk to you all then.

Take care all.

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