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“People often look at Manitoba as a place that they say it's too cold...there's no way you can grow year round in Manitoba...It's freezing, which is a fair point. And a lot of people think that, but that actually isn't true, and we've proven that now,” says Cormac Foster, VP of Engineering and Development at Vermillion Growers, who joins Greenhouse Success Stories to share how his team shattered the myth that year-round, large-scale greenhouse farming in one of Canada’s harshest climates is impossible.
From navigating daunting permitting obstacles and innovating solutions for extreme humidity and temperature swings, to pioneering new utility models and helping carve a path for future greenhouse engineers, Cormac Foster details the journey of building Manitoba’s first commercial vegetable greenhouse. Behind the fresh tomatoes now appearing in local stores lies a story of technical ingenuity, global collaboration, and a bold vision to turn the province into an ag-tech powerhouse. Want to know how they made it happen—and what’s next? Don’t miss this episode.
5 Key Takeaways
- Challenge the “it’s too cold” myth—innovative greenhouses can thrive year-round even in extreme climates like Manitoba. Start exploring what’s possible in your region.
- Build your dream team—seek out the best global experts, consultants, and growers to turn your greenhouse vision into reality. Don’t settle, connect and collaborate widely.
- Prioritize humidity and climate control—extreme weather demands experimental thinking and robust systems. Test new solutions, monitor closely, and adapt rapidly.
- Advocate for your industry—push for updated regulations, utility classes, and incentive programs that support greenhouse agriculture. Take the lead in driving policy changes.
- Own your learning journey—expand your skills in biosystems engineering, project management, and communication to unlock new opportunities in controlled environment agriculture. Invest in yourself and share your expertise.
Memorable Quotes
"And people often look at Manitoba as a place that’s too cold, like there’s no way you can grow year-round here. It’s freezing, which is a fair point, and a lot of people think that, but that actually isn’t true—and we’ve proven that now."
"My work really was focused on the design and then actually trying to see how can we get this design permitted and approved for use in Manitoba. How do we bring this technology that’s approved maybe in Europe or in other jurisdictions in North America here, and how did this work in our area?"
"Our official mission at Vermillion Growers is to grow high quality produce, healthy people, and sustainable communities. There’s a lot to unpack there, but that’s our mission as a company—we really do have big vision and big goals."
Connect with Cormac
Cormac's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cormacfoster/
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Website: https://www.vermilliongrowers.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/vermilliongrowers/
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Mentioned in this episode:
2025 Precision Ag Report by iGrowNews
2025 Precision Ag Report by iGrowNews
Transcripts
$680 million poured into precision ag last year.
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Speaker:igrownews.com/precision. Special thanks to our
Speaker:title sponsor, Arnois Greenhouses. Are you a commercial grower
Speaker:striving for consistency, higher yields, and year-round profitability?
Speaker:For over 60 years, Arnois Greenhouses has been designing, building,
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Speaker:Greenhouses for supporting this show. Now let's get into today's episode.
Speaker:And people often look at Manitoba as a place that they say, it's too
Speaker:cold. Like, there's no way you can grow year-round in Manitoba, right?
Speaker:It's freezing, which is a fair point, and a lot of people think that,
Speaker:but that actually isn't true, and we've proven that now.
Speaker:Welcome to Greenhouse Success Stories. Tune in every week as we share
Speaker:conversations with growers, operators, and innovators from around the world,
Speaker:providing insight into what's working in their greenhouses. We discuss
Speaker:firsthand experiences, and provide insights into how these farms are
Speaker:succeeding and thriving. Special thanks to our title sponsor,
Speaker:Arnois Greenhouse. With your host, founder of Little Greenhouse That Could,
Speaker:Trina Semenchuk. Okay, hello everyone. I'm Trina
Speaker:from Little Greenhouse That Could, and this is the Greenhouse Success Stories
Speaker:podcast. I'm really looking forward to this interview today.
Speaker:Today we have Cormac Foster. He is the
Speaker:VP of Engineering and Development from
Speaker:Vermilion Growers. So he has a background in
Speaker:biosystems engineering from the University of
Speaker:Manitoba. Funny enough, we actually both have the same
Speaker:education background. Vermilion Growers, it's
Speaker:a local Manitoban— local for me, sorry. It's a
Speaker:Manitoban greenhouse. They grow
Speaker:tomatoes, they work with Red Sun Farms,
Speaker:and they are actually the first big commercial
Speaker:fruit and vegetable greenhouse in Manitoba. So I'm
Speaker:really looking forward to this conversation and talking with Cormac
Speaker:Foster here. So thank you, Cormac, for joining us. Yeah,
Speaker:thanks for having me, Drina. I'm really excited to be here today. Okay, so to
Speaker:get this all started, really for the listeners,
Speaker:Cormac, could you just tell us, you know, this is kind of how we
Speaker:start all of our interviews, but could you just tell us your story
Speaker:on how you got involved with the greenhouse sector? maybe a
Speaker:bit more about what your role is at Vermilion Growers and
Speaker:how you execute your role? Yeah, definitely.
Speaker:That's a big thing for me to think about because
Speaker:it's been quite a journey, honestly, that I've been on over
Speaker:the past about 8 years or so. Prior to
Speaker:working at Vermilion Growers, I was doing work in the
Speaker:cold climate, remote northern controlled environment ag
Speaker:space. So, This is looking at how do we grow food up north in
Speaker:Canada. That was the area that I was working in prior to this. So
Speaker:it was a little bit of a different scale, different scope. It was more research-based
Speaker:at that point and really prototyping for, you know,
Speaker:trying to make something happen in that area. And from that,
Speaker:through a series of very, you could say, random or
Speaker:coincidental or providential events, I ended up getting connected
Speaker:with Lucky, Lucky Deshauer. He was the founding
Speaker:member and one of the founders of Vermilion Growers. And him and I connected
Speaker:back in 2017, it was. And from there, we were
Speaker:both excited about what was happening in the space, and we connected.
Speaker:And I actually was the first employee, official employee, with
Speaker:Vermilion Growers at that time. And so back in
Speaker:2017, I think it was November that I started with the company. And
Speaker:from there, really, things just took off. And
Speaker:I've gone through an amazing journey over this past 8
Speaker:years where I've learned a lot. I've met a lot of amazing people,
Speaker:and we've seen our company go through major development from
Speaker:basically an idea that somebody had, an
Speaker:idea, a vision that Lucky had. Lucky, Maria, his
Speaker:sister, and Mark Cohen are the 3 founders of the company,
Speaker:and they had this vision to create something special, to
Speaker:create something unique in Manitoba. It's not new and
Speaker:unique in the world, but it's unique to our area.
Speaker:And so, this is something that they had a vision for. They wanted to do
Speaker:something. Lucky, you know, he was thinking, I want to do something that's going to
Speaker:leave an impact. He was thinking about legacy and these types of things.
Speaker:Mm-hmm. And in doing so, he came across the
Speaker:greenhouse industry. And we do have some greenhouses here in
Speaker:Manitoba, in our province, but they're not necessarily to the same
Speaker:scale or technological scope. And also looking at the
Speaker:year-round vegetable production that's not necessarily happening here.
Speaker:And people often look at Manitoba as a place that they say, it's too
Speaker:cold. Like, there's no way you can grow year-round in Manitoba, right? It's
Speaker:freezing, which is a fair point. And a lot of people think that, but
Speaker:that actually isn't true. And we've proven that now. And so,
Speaker:at the time, this was just an idea. And so, I got
Speaker:involved with the company and we started to work through
Speaker:different possibilities and explore what's out there. And
Speaker:one of our early advisors suggested to us to
Speaker:go out and find the best of the best. That was the idea, seek out
Speaker:the best people in the world. And I think our team really took that to
Speaker:heart. We sought out the best in the industry. We were looking for
Speaker:the best technology, the leading edge equipment. We were
Speaker:looking for consultants and suppliers and people to work with really to
Speaker:develop a team. We didn't just want to go shopping.
Speaker:We wanted to actually develop a team to work with and build relationships moving
Speaker:into the future because we have a bigger vision for this. And so
Speaker:that's what we did. And fast forward several years and
Speaker:now we have a, it's about a 10-acre growing space
Speaker:up in Dauphin, Manitoba in the cold, yes, for part of the year.
Speaker:And we're producing tomatoes and shipping them across Canada
Speaker:and across North America. So it's really an amazing success
Speaker:story, and I'm proud and just honestly
Speaker:humbled and honored to be a part of it. It's been an amazing
Speaker:experience. Yeah, for those listening, this is
Speaker:once Vermillion Growers started getting started
Speaker:and started the construction, I think a lot of people in
Speaker:Manitoba were talking about it because the idea was just so
Speaker:new to us. And it is really inspiring
Speaker:because I do feel like a lot of people here, they
Speaker:talk about, you know, what about greenhouses? Why don't we have more
Speaker:greenhouses? But the amount of work that goes
Speaker:into making a greenhouse vision, you know, not only
Speaker:a reality, but also commercially profitable here in
Speaker:the freezing cold, like that is a ton of work. And I'm sure there were
Speaker:a ton of challenges and hurdles that you experienced that we'll talk
Speaker:about later, but it's definitely something to be very proud
Speaker:about. So, Cormac, maybe talk a bit more about
Speaker:what your role was in bringing this vision to life. You
Speaker:know, what were you doing to help push the needle forward?
Speaker:We've interviewed quite a bit of growers so far and
Speaker:a couple other people, but no one in your role specifically.
Speaker:Right. Yeah, definitely. In my role,
Speaker:it's an interesting thing because when I first started with the company, Like I
Speaker:said, it was very early stages. The founding team
Speaker:had done feasibility studies looking at the financial viability of the project
Speaker:and that kind of background legwork. So that was already in place,
Speaker:but now moving into the actual technical details of how do we make
Speaker:this happen? How do we actually construct a facility that
Speaker:will work in this area and in this climate? That
Speaker:was a whole animal that had to be tackled really. So,
Speaker:That's something that was really the main focus for me when I started out,
Speaker:as well as learning. I had been in this controlled environment egg
Speaker:space, but not specifically with this type of tech
Speaker:and in this scale. Going from a small, you
Speaker:know, prototype research facilities to actually a large-scale
Speaker:10-acre growing space is a big shift.
Speaker:And so, Really, what I was doing at the time
Speaker:was exploring what exists out there in the world. I did
Speaker:quite a few learning trips, I could call them, which
Speaker:were either to Ontario, the Southern Ontario, Leamington,
Speaker:Windsor, that region is a big hub for greenhouses in
Speaker:North America. If any of our listeners out there are familiar
Speaker:with this space, you've probably heard of Leamington, Ontario, because that's a
Speaker:big pocket for greenhouses. So I visited there
Speaker:multiple times, had the opportunity to travel over to the Netherlands, which
Speaker:I would say is one of the worldwide hubs for greenhouses,
Speaker:and meet a lot of amazing people and try to
Speaker:explore, you know, what's even available, what's being done right now, what are the
Speaker:options out there in the space. And it was interesting
Speaker:to me because I, at the time, was reading in National
Speaker:Geographic, I had read an article And it was an article about the greenhouse industry
Speaker:and which companies, which countries were working
Speaker:in that space and how efficient they were with water use and energy use.
Speaker:And it caught my attention in this article. I don't remember what year this was
Speaker:from. This was a while back, but the Netherlands was being
Speaker:highlighted as growing the most amount of food with the least amount of
Speaker:water when they were comparing to the various countries in that article.
Speaker:So clearly the Dutch design and the
Speaker:Dutch knowledge and what they have that they're doing in the industry there
Speaker:is efficient and they knew what they're doing. So we went
Speaker:directly to the source, I would say, and we ended up partnering
Speaker:with quite a few Dutch consultants and suppliers and
Speaker:companies. I spent over a month at one point around
Speaker:that working in the Netherlands out of an office there so that I could
Speaker:collaborate with the design teams that were over there.
Speaker:So my work really was focused on the design and then
Speaker:actually trying to see how can we get this design
Speaker:permitted and approved for use in Manitoba?
Speaker:How do we bring this technology that's approved maybe in Europe or in
Speaker:other jurisdictions in North America? How do we bring this now to Manitoba
Speaker:and how does this work in our area? And then of course, trying to overcome
Speaker:the climate-specific challenges because of how cold it is
Speaker:here and because of our winters. And, you know, people may think of
Speaker:Manitoba as being this cold place. We also have really hot summers.
Speaker:So, as you know, it's a big shift. We can do like a
Speaker:60-degree shift from +30 in the summer to
Speaker:-30 in the winter. So, how do you navigate that with a
Speaker:building that you're trying to grow plants inside? So, that's its own
Speaker:challenge versus a more moderate climate. And so all
Speaker:of this was part of my, part of my role was navigating this, working with
Speaker:suppliers, working with engineering teams. I've
Speaker:achieved my professional engineering certification now through this whole process,
Speaker:which is an exciting thing for me personally. Congratulations.
Speaker:Thank you. Thank you. And so, you know, having the opportunity to work with
Speaker:all of these design teams in a very international setting was
Speaker:fascinating, dealing with language barriers and different
Speaker:dynamics of people from all over the world, whether it be the Netherlands,
Speaker:Israel, over across Canada, you know, all over the place. So
Speaker:that dynamic alone, that was something that was an amazing experience for
Speaker:me. So I don't know if that really answers the question, but
Speaker:my role was extremely varied, you know, from presenting and
Speaker:meeting with people and trying to bring our project
Speaker:to the authorities in our region to say, look, this is what we're trying
Speaker:to do. How can we make this happen? It doesn't really fit into the mold
Speaker:of anything that's being done here in Manitoba right now. So how do we do
Speaker:this? Right. So all of those conversations, that was what I was
Speaker:trying to work on. Right. Well, I think like it
Speaker:sounds like, you know, project management and overall like design lead.
Speaker:Like you led the whole design of the 10-acre greenhouse. You talked to, you
Speaker:know, all these suppliers, like you said, around the world, and then
Speaker:you project managed that design into the
Speaker:permitting and construction process. So I think Yeah, so
Speaker:I think, you know, design, project manage, lead, that all makes
Speaker:a lot of sense to me. How, you know, I'm curious,
Speaker:how do you think your engineering
Speaker:schooling prepared you for this
Speaker:role? Like, what did you think the benefits were of getting a biosystems
Speaker:engineering degree for, you know, project managing and
Speaker:designing this greenhouse? That's a great question,
Speaker:honestly. And it's something that I talk to people about because
Speaker:biosystems engineering is maybe not the first engineering that
Speaker:people think of when you talk about that industry, right?
Speaker:Yes. People usually think of civil or mechanical, maybe like
Speaker:aerospace or something, but bioengineering is not typically, you know,
Speaker:something that people think of. And I find that the
Speaker:program that I went through, that we went through at the University of Manitoba,
Speaker:Was extremely beneficial because we had a really varied
Speaker:educational background in that program. You know, you learn a bit of
Speaker:electrical, you learn a bit of programming, you learn a bit of civil and mechanical.
Speaker:Like there's a little touch on, on a lot of different disciplines.
Speaker:And that was really useful for me. I found there were times
Speaker:when I was working with design teams, you know, sitting in boardrooms with
Speaker:people from around the world and discussing different
Speaker:design aspects for the facility. And I could literally recall and
Speaker:think, oh, I remember I took a course specifically about this, and I didn't know
Speaker:if I would ever use this, and now this is coming up. So I found
Speaker:it quite, quite beneficial, honestly. Um,
Speaker:kind of the interdisciplinary nature of it was, was
Speaker:helpful because in the role that I've been in, I've had to wear
Speaker:many hats and be able to speak the language of electrical and then also
Speaker:talk about civil and structural and, you know, move and navigate
Speaker:between the different disciplines. So I found the program really
Speaker:beneficial, and honestly, communication is a huge part of the
Speaker:job. And I think that's maybe used to be considered one of the soft
Speaker:skills, but I think that that's such an important skill. And I think
Speaker:that was also something that was helpful from our program. Yeah,
Speaker:that's a really good point, actually. Like, a lot of the Biosystems Engineering
Speaker:program was on how do you work in a team, how do you communicate with
Speaker:one another, how do you set, you know, schedules for your projects.
Speaker:And the other thing that I want to say, it's so nice to talk to
Speaker:you about your experience and how you found our program
Speaker:to be beneficial because again, yes, it is very unique. But I also think
Speaker:with the Biosystems Engineering program is you learn
Speaker:all these different disciplines of engineering, but then you apply it
Speaker:to biological processes. Yeah. And, you know, 2 of the key
Speaker:classes that we take is plant physiology and biology.
Speaker:So A huge critique of people in the
Speaker:vertical farm industry, or maybe in the greenhouse industry as well,
Speaker:is that they're too tech-based. They're not plant-based, or
Speaker:they don't have that knowledge of how plant grows. And I do
Speaker:feel like we touch on that in the Biosystems Engineering program and
Speaker:learning about how plants grow and whatnot. So I also think that
Speaker:is super beneficial to this. I agree with you. I
Speaker:find it interesting that you bring that up because I've heard in
Speaker:conversations in this industry multiple times people make that
Speaker:exact critique, that statement of, you know, this is too tech-based,
Speaker:or, you know, it's not actually thinking about how does the
Speaker:plant work. Because ultimately we're trying to do
Speaker:the, you know, this very fancy technological work, but
Speaker:ultimately the goal is to get a plant to grow and produce fruit, right? Yeah.
Speaker:So, you know, I, early on in the project working with one of our Dutch
Speaker:consultants, they told me that they kind of have a
Speaker:principle, almost like this rule of thumb, where they say, you know, really the
Speaker:idea of greenhouses is to give the plant the best
Speaker:environment to do what it does. Mm-hmm. And so if you can create that
Speaker:best environment for the plant to do its thing, that's, that's the end goal.
Speaker:And I agree, I think that that is often missed. You know, it's
Speaker:seen as a venture capital type thing, or, you know, from the
Speaker:financial perspective or the tech perspective, but Yeah, the biological
Speaker:pieces is huge. I guess I ask about this
Speaker:too, because your role was, I guess, on the
Speaker:design and project managing of bringing this greenhouse to life. But
Speaker:I'm wondering, what was your experience with actually growing
Speaker:crops? Did you grow any crops yourself, or were you working
Speaker:in the team with growing crops as well? And
Speaker:during that process, were there instances where your
Speaker:team was struggling to grow crops? You know, maybe what were the
Speaker:causes of that and what were some solutions? Right. Yeah.
Speaker:So I, you know, I've had my own gardens in the past
Speaker:at my house, but I really haven't done
Speaker:that much growing really from that perspective.
Speaker:I've grown my few tomato plants in my backyard, but from the
Speaker:growing perspective, honestly, that's where I rely on the expertise of our
Speaker:head grower and our grow team. So one of the things we did with that
Speaker:idea of going out and finding the best of the best, the idea is to
Speaker:find people who understand that piece of the industry and bring them to
Speaker:the team. Yes. So we actually have a head grower on our
Speaker:staff as part of our team, with a grow team, and
Speaker:so they have that expertise specific to the plants, and,
Speaker:and how do we drive the plants to get the best output. And so
Speaker:my consultation with that grow team is critical,
Speaker:to understand, okay, if we're making these types of design changes,
Speaker:what impact do you expect to see on the plants and the plant health?
Speaker:And I have an understanding of it. I have that educational
Speaker:background. I have my understanding from my own research and study, but
Speaker:really I rely on their expertise to then have that dialogue
Speaker:back and forth. And I find that really helpful because
Speaker:I, I have some level of understanding, but there's people in the industry who have
Speaker:been doing this for decades. And so— We'll consult and we'll have calls
Speaker:with growers from around the world to say, hey, what have you experienced when you've
Speaker:done this? You know, have you dealt with this type of situation? And then
Speaker:I can take that back to the technical side and say, okay, how do we
Speaker:work with this now? So, how did you find your
Speaker:head grower? That was an interesting process as well that our
Speaker:team worked on, basically trying to seek out and talk with
Speaker:people in the industry and say, hey, do you know somebody? That was
Speaker:really the process. And through contacts and through this
Speaker:relationship that we've developed with people all over the world,
Speaker:you start to have conversations, you start to find out about these people that exist,
Speaker:and really it's through word of mouth. Okay.
Speaker:It makes a lot of sense that you were relying on that expertise
Speaker:of the growers, but were there
Speaker:times where you were experiencing challenges with
Speaker:growing tomato crops, in your setup, and I'm wondering if those
Speaker:challenges were because of growing tomatoes in such a cold
Speaker:climate. Were there issues with controlling the climate, or
Speaker:yeah, could you talk maybe a bit more about an instance where
Speaker:you're struggling to grow? Sure. Yeah, we've definitely had our
Speaker:challenges, and really specific to the fact that we are
Speaker:where we are, which we knew would happen, right? Because of growing,
Speaker:trying to grow year-round in Manitoba. And ideally, our, our
Speaker:model is set up that we want to be growing a winter crop. So,
Speaker:when those typical field vegetables are not necessarily
Speaker:as readily available in the wintertime, we want to have that
Speaker:available out of our facilities that we can feed the local community
Speaker:with our produce. So, that's how we're set up, which means we have to grow
Speaker:in the harshest condition here. Mm-hmm. And so, yes, there have been
Speaker:challenges. I would say, One of the main things that we
Speaker:have had a challenge with and that we're still dealing with is
Speaker:humidity. And so, you know, for all the listeners
Speaker:out there who are hearing this, to explain it a little bit,
Speaker:typically in a greenhouse, if you have so much vegetation, so
Speaker:many plants, just to give you an idea, with our first season, we
Speaker:ordered about, I think it was about 55,000 plants that we put
Speaker:inside our space. Yeah. So just to put it in scale,
Speaker:55,000 tomato plants were planted in our greenhouse.
Speaker:Somewhere around that. And so when you have all those plants,
Speaker:they're producing a large volume of humidity. So it's a very
Speaker:tropical feeling space when you walk into our greenhouse. It's hot,
Speaker:even though it's the middle of winter and it might be -30. I know, so
Speaker:nice. Yes. You know, our workers can come in and walk into like this nice
Speaker:warm space, but it's extremely humid. So if you've been to a
Speaker:humid place, that's what it feels like. And so you need a way to get
Speaker:rid of that humidity because ultimately, For ideal plant health,
Speaker:you don't want that humidity to stay. You need to evacuate that somehow.
Speaker:In a typical greenhouse in another region, you may just open up your roof
Speaker:vents. The roofs typically have vents that open up and you can
Speaker:release that humidity out, out of the space.
Speaker:But for us, in the middle of winter, when it's -30 and we have a
Speaker:wind chill that brings us down to even colder, your roof
Speaker:vents very possibly are frozen shut. Yeah. And so
Speaker:how do you evacuate that humidity? We actually have a
Speaker:system in the greenhouse that's specifically designed to try and,
Speaker:and melt the snow and melt the ice that's on the roof and
Speaker:keep that space warm. But when you're dealing with such
Speaker:extremes, we found that that system may not even be enough to actually
Speaker:deal with that. And so even though it was something that we had considered in
Speaker:the design phase, and we had systems in place to try and deal with
Speaker:it, they may not be sufficient or may not be tuned exactly right.
Speaker:And so, we've had challenges with humidity in the extremely cold
Speaker:periods of the season, and we've consulted with growers from
Speaker:across Canada to say, well, how have you dealt with this? But, you know, we've
Speaker:talked to a grower, for an example, who says, well, yeah, we deal with this
Speaker:for 3 days out of the season, so we can just make it work. It's
Speaker:only a few days. For us, now it's all of a sudden maybe a couple
Speaker:months that we're dealing with this. Yeah. So, it's a lot more of a challenge.
Speaker:So, how do we address that? And that's something To be honest, I actually just
Speaker:had a meeting this morning where we're still working on that with some of
Speaker:our consultants and our team. So this is an ongoing thing we're trying to address,
Speaker:and we have some ideas that we're workshopping right now, and we're planning
Speaker:to trial some of these this coming winter with our next
Speaker:season here. So it's still a work in progress. I'll let you know how
Speaker:it goes in the spring. Yeah, fair enough.
Speaker:Like some massive HRV maybe. Yeah, exactly. And you know what?
Speaker:There are companies out there that are installing huge dehumidifiers
Speaker:4 full greenhouses. That's something that does happen.
Speaker:But of course, that's cost prohibitive as well. So,
Speaker:we've been trying to find a solution that hits that sweet spot of the
Speaker:financial side, as well as how do we mitigate this for plant health and
Speaker:production. So, it's an interesting challenge to navigate.
Speaker:Do you have a direction of where you're leaning
Speaker:towards? We have a few options. And so, one of the things we did when
Speaker:we built our facility, so it's basically like a big square, if you
Speaker:look at the footprint from, from the sky. And so we have
Speaker:a dividing wall right in the center of the greenhouse, and that allows us to
Speaker:control both sides of the greenhouse independently. So we can
Speaker:actually, if we want to, we can run experiments where we can try something
Speaker:on one half of the greenhouse and try something else on the other half and
Speaker:then compare, which allows us to almost just be a very large
Speaker:research facility in a sense. And so we're planning to
Speaker:utilize that, and we're likely going to run a couple of trials on either side
Speaker:to see you know, what works, what doesn't. We
Speaker:have a bunch of ideas that we're still in the process of working on right
Speaker:now to get ready for this coming winter. And so, yeah, we're going to
Speaker:see what happens. Some of them are, you know, involving reversing
Speaker:airflow, using fan systems, controlling the
Speaker:environment a little bit differently, because I'm sure you've
Speaker:probably spoke about it with your other guests, but
Speaker:controlling the environment is obviously a huge part of what we do. So,
Speaker:Yeah. Monitoring with all of our sensors and all of our data
Speaker:collection and controlling the space very, very,
Speaker:at a fine level of detail. So that's something we're looking at as well, just
Speaker:using different strategies to try and make that work a little better.
Speaker:But ultimately, we have to get rid of that humidity and somehow do that when
Speaker:our windows might be frozen shut, so. Yeah.
Speaker:Are you using Priva? We are, yes. Yeah, that is our overall
Speaker:control system for the greenhouse. Okay.
Speaker:Have you had any issues with heating, or your heating system is
Speaker:set up well? I know you have this big hot water
Speaker:storage tank to improve your efficiency, but did
Speaker:you have any struggles with heating the greenhouse, or did you have any struggles with
Speaker:cooling the greenhouse? Yeah, no, that's a great point.
Speaker:With heating, we really didn't, honestly. That's one side where I
Speaker:would say, fortunately, the design has worked out quite well. I'm
Speaker:happy to say that. And like you mentioned, our hot water storage tank,
Speaker:that's really a critical piece of the infrastructure for us. It is
Speaker:something that's used in other locations, but for us, that
Speaker:really gives us a, I would say it's a redundancy in
Speaker:a sense, because— Mm-hmm. If for some reason our heat system,
Speaker:if that supply for us, we're using natural gas right now, if for some reason
Speaker:our natural gas supply went down and we couldn't actually use that for heating,
Speaker:we need a backup, because in the middle of winter for us, if your heating
Speaker:goes down for a few hours, you can lose your crop. So
Speaker:we needed those redundancies in place. And so that heat storage tank actually gives
Speaker:us quite a significant buffer by storing that hot water in the
Speaker:tank. It's a 3 million liter tank, to give you an
Speaker:idea. So we have 3 million liters of hot water stored in that tank.
Speaker:So we can circulate that in the greenhouse to stay warm if we need to.
Speaker:And we use that in an interesting kind of— dance
Speaker:where we're heating it and not having to use the boiler as much. So there's
Speaker:a bit of an efficiency there. And so our heating system, that's worked out
Speaker:quite well, honestly. The
Speaker:opposite end of the spectrum, when we get into the summer months, it gets hot
Speaker:in Manitoba. And so cooling is definitely a bit more of a
Speaker:challenge because that's not something that we have actual active cooling
Speaker:built into our space. We have vents, we have fans. Mm-hmm. but there's no
Speaker:active cooling like air conditioning, for example. And so
Speaker:cooling is definitely more of a challenge. Fortunately, we're usually at
Speaker:the end of our crop cycle come the hotter period of the year here.
Speaker:Yeah. So we're tearing out our crop and cleaning and getting ready to replant. So
Speaker:we've set up our cycle that way, so it works out okay. But yeah, the
Speaker:greenhouse in the summertime can get very hot here. Yeah. And
Speaker:just for those listening to kind of understand how
Speaker:extreme Manitoba's weather can be. There was
Speaker:like a couple of months ago, or during the spring, I think it was a
Speaker:2 or 3 day period where we had like a
Speaker:30-degree temperature swing, where one day it was
Speaker:like +20 and the next day it was -5
Speaker:degrees Celsius. So do those days or those
Speaker:weeks ever throw off how the tomatoes are growing and
Speaker:how the environment is controlled for you guys, or What do
Speaker:you do to sort of manage those big swings? Because yeah, they
Speaker:are crazy and they do happen, not for a big chunk of the year,
Speaker:but definitely for a few weeks in the spring. Yeah, it's an
Speaker:interesting thing to navigate. And that's where our grow team has to really have a
Speaker:good finger on the pulse of what's happening in the environment outside the
Speaker:greenhouse, because you have to make all the changes and you have to make that
Speaker:in real time. So as these changes are happening, if you get those
Speaker:swings, you have to react quickly and be able to adjust our
Speaker:controls, adjust the vents, the fans, the heating systems, that, you know, all of these
Speaker:different parameters to deal with those swings. So
Speaker:yeah, it's something that definitely, definitely impacts us. And the grow team,
Speaker:you know, they're the experts at handling that and how to regulate that through
Speaker:those swings. Okay. Okay. So it's not
Speaker:controlled automatically based on like an ambient temperature
Speaker:humidity sensor. It's just adjusted by the growers. So
Speaker:there are controls so that the whole thing can run independently. in a
Speaker:sense, but you're also making changes on the
Speaker:fly based on looking at your plants, seeing what your plant health is. Yeah.
Speaker:So, yes, there are set points, and the greenhouse will react
Speaker:itself to certain set points and changes, but no, there is
Speaker:a lot of interaction from the grow team, I would say, as well,
Speaker:because, you know, our team is regularly monitoring, walking
Speaker:through the facility, looking at the plants, checking the leaves, looking at how pollination is
Speaker:going. You know, all of these things are being observed and monitored, to
Speaker:then make changes to those types of parameters. Yeah.
Speaker:Okay. That makes a lot of sense. As, you know, the first
Speaker:greenhouse, commercial tomato growing
Speaker:greenhouse in Manitoba, what has it been
Speaker:like to be pioneers in this space? How has
Speaker:that affected your operations? Oh, that's a big question.
Speaker:That's definitely a big question, because it has been an
Speaker:interesting journey. I would say it's been challenging. It's been fun.
Speaker:It's been rewarding as well. But it's definitely
Speaker:been difficult. Like you say, with us being the
Speaker:first greenhouse of this kind in our region here,
Speaker:there isn't really much precedent set, or any precedent set, really,
Speaker:for how to manage this type of thing. I would say first, going back to
Speaker:the very beginning, there's the financing side, 'cause obviously for any
Speaker:project, financing is key. And we had a—
Speaker:You know, it was a significant challenge initially trying to get financing because
Speaker:typically you'd have these conversations with financial institutions and they would
Speaker:say, well, it's not possible to grow year-round in Manitoba. You just, you
Speaker:can't do that. It's too cold. It doesn't work. Like that's not a possible or
Speaker:a feasible business model. And so, you know, we get that,
Speaker:that response and doors closed over and over for quite some
Speaker:time. So from the financial side, that was a challenge. Until
Speaker:ultimately we found a partner, which is, you know, BMO, who's been
Speaker:excellent, and they're very active in the greenhouse space across
Speaker:Canada. And so, they're familiar with this industry, and that has been
Speaker:hugely beneficial and helpful for us as a company
Speaker:to actually find a financial partner who knows the industry. Because otherwise, here
Speaker:locally, we're, you know, we're trying to have this conversation, and, you know,
Speaker:people can't necessarily even fathom what a greenhouse is,
Speaker:you know, until you walk into one and you experience it yourself. I know the
Speaker:first time I did, it honestly blows your mind because you walk into
Speaker:this space and it feels like it's like Jurassic Park almost. You see these like
Speaker:50-foot-long vines and these like massive
Speaker:stalks of tomato plants. And I remember one time I walked into a
Speaker:cucumber facility early on and I was talking with,
Speaker:with the operator there, the grower, And they said, oh yeah, we just planted these,
Speaker:this crop like a few weeks ago. And I'm seeing like full-sized
Speaker:cucumbers. I'm like, what do you mean? Like, how is that possible? And
Speaker:they're like, oh yeah, like these grew in X number of days. And it's
Speaker:just the type of thing that blows your mind. And so people
Speaker:can't really picture that until you've experienced it. And so, you
Speaker:know, that first piece, the financial piece was a huge challenge because, you know, like
Speaker:I said, people say, well, you can't grow year-round in Manitoba. It's too cold.
Speaker:So finding a partner that understood that helped and who was
Speaker:willing to take also a bit of a risk to say, you know, yes,
Speaker:this works in other regions, this works in other climates. We think it can
Speaker:work here. We're going to try that, right? So we really said
Speaker:that this first phase for us is almost like a pilot project to just prove
Speaker:the concept, you know, show that it works. And so I'd say
Speaker:that was one initial challenge, but then moving on from that,
Speaker:once we get into the design phase and actually trying to
Speaker:apply for building permits and get approvals for, for
Speaker:building, that type of thing. That was a challenge too, because
Speaker:where does a greenhouse fit? A greenhouse is ag,
Speaker:it's agriculture, so it is a farm building per se,
Speaker:but it's not the same as putting up a barn, right? Exactly. It's very
Speaker:different. The level of technology is is so high
Speaker:and so advanced in this facility, you know, it's quite different. I
Speaker:had a conversation with an electrician early on
Speaker:who told me they used to work in the automotive industry, and they
Speaker:were in the automotive industry and then moved into the greenhouse space as
Speaker:an electrician. And they said they found the greenhouse space to be even more
Speaker:advanced than the automotive industry and more complex.
Speaker:And when I heard that, I didn't really believe it. I thought, well, that's,
Speaker:I don't know, that's strange. But now I see it, right? The
Speaker:level of control and what you're doing in the space to make that work
Speaker:from an electrical perspective is complex. And
Speaker:so how do you deal with that when you're trying to navigate
Speaker:permitting a building like this? Is it, you know, how do
Speaker:you classify that? So that's a challenge we had and we had to
Speaker:work with our engineering teams to actually, you know,
Speaker:educate the authorities and also work with the authorities. And
Speaker:fortunately, we have people here who have been willing to work with us and
Speaker:to learn and to figure out how to make this work. But
Speaker:that's definitely a challenge in and of itself. And then
Speaker:another aspect of things is because we're the first in
Speaker:and really pioneering this, there are certain systems and
Speaker:certain programs and regulations that just aren't set up for a greenhouse in Manitoba.
Speaker:And that's where we're trying to hopefully kind of change the narrative and
Speaker:move things along to make this more of an accessible
Speaker:industry here in the province. So, for example, even something
Speaker:like the shift to LED lighting. In the greenhouse industry, we're seeing
Speaker:a major shift to LEDs. It's more efficient. You can actually dial in your
Speaker:spectrum to actually provide the plants with the exact light that they
Speaker:need, depending on what crop you're growing. Right. There's a lot of fascinating stuff
Speaker:happening in the space right now. And, but that technology
Speaker:is expensive, to be fair, it's expensive. And in other
Speaker:provinces, for example, in Quebec, they have
Speaker:lighting incentive programs for if you're building a new greenhouse and you
Speaker:want to put LED lights in, they have significant incentive dollars
Speaker:available for that, to fund that. Here in Manitoba, we
Speaker:don't have something specifically set up for that yet. So we're trying to
Speaker:work with the different organizations to create these types of
Speaker:programs and to present this and say, hey, We think
Speaker:this could help the industry take off here in our province. How do we make
Speaker:this happen? You know, before this interview too, we were
Speaker:talking a bit about Manitoba Hydro
Speaker:and what that's been like too with, you know, regulating
Speaker:how much your electrical bill is month to month.
Speaker:Okay, yeah. So could you talk a bit about that? Because that was super— that
Speaker:was very interesting. Yeah, another challenge with being
Speaker:kind of first in, in the industry here in Manitoba is looking at
Speaker:something even like our billing for our electricity usage.
Speaker:So for us, with our grow lights in place, we are a massive
Speaker:electricity consumer. When we turn on our grow lights, that's a
Speaker:big draw of electricity. And— What draw? How much, do you know what the
Speaker:draw is? So our facility right now,
Speaker:we actually use, so what we have approved for use is about
Speaker:7.5 megawatts of electricity. We're drawing a little less than
Speaker:that actually right now with our lights, but that's what we
Speaker:were applying for for our first phase. And so that
Speaker:amount, I don't know the exact number to put that in,
Speaker:you know, and to give you a comparison for it, but it's large.
Speaker:That is a large, large amount of electricity. So is that
Speaker:primarily for lights? That is, yes. So basically it
Speaker:takes us only about 1 megawatt or so to run all of our pumps, motors,
Speaker:the warehouse, the packaging, everything. All of that is about 1
Speaker:megawatt. Which is still a lot. Which is still a lot, it is.
Speaker:But then it's about 5 megawatts or so just for our
Speaker:lights for the plants. So it is a massive
Speaker:amount just for our lights. So when we turn those on, that is a big
Speaker:draw. And so one of the challenges is the way
Speaker:that our utility in Manitoba bills for electricity
Speaker:isn't really set up well for our type of industry because as a
Speaker:greenhouse growing here, We only need the lights when we need to
Speaker:supplement the sun. So in the winter, for example, when you have less
Speaker:sunlight, you need more artificial light from our grow lights,
Speaker:versus in the summer, when we have lots of solar radiation,
Speaker:you have lots of sunlight, you don't really need the grow lights as much, or
Speaker:at all even in certain periods. Mm-hmm. So you may have a month where you
Speaker:don't even need to turn on the grow lights at all, but yet the way
Speaker:the billing system is just set up, the way the model has conventionally been
Speaker:for our utility here, We end up getting charged still in that month.
Speaker:So that becomes a challenge from a business perspective,
Speaker:because all of a sudden you're now getting charges when you're maybe not even using
Speaker:the lights. You may not even be in a production phase. You may be in
Speaker:a tare-out cleaning phase, getting ready for your next crop. So that's
Speaker:something that we're trying to work with our utility to determine. Is
Speaker:there a way we can create a new class, a new rate class
Speaker:where we can be charged differently? Mm-hmm. So I've explored, you know, in Ontario, for
Speaker:example, how does it work over there? How are greenhouses built
Speaker:over there for electricity? To see what other models exist
Speaker:in Canada, for example. And so that's something that we're working
Speaker:on right now. And so these are some of the things that, you know, you
Speaker:may not think about. They're kind of nitty-gritty background things
Speaker:that you may not consider initially, but they have major impacts on the
Speaker:business. And because we're new, it's— yeah, it's something we're
Speaker:trying to navigate. Yeah, and that's interesting too, because it's like, Well, you
Speaker:start off in your role as, you know, designing and
Speaker:project managing this greenhouse, but now a part of your role is
Speaker:you have to change the way that utilities are
Speaker:set up in Manitoba so that your design, you know, can
Speaker:work. So, yes, it's interesting. It's definitely like a
Speaker:lot to take on. Has Manitoba Hydro been pretty like
Speaker:open to the idea of creating a new class to build greenhouses
Speaker:separately? We're still in the early stages of that, and so we've been working with
Speaker:them. We submitted a proposal, we're working with our advisor who's been great.
Speaker:So yeah, very early stages at the moment, but I'm hoping we'll have some
Speaker:great success on that front to share very soon. Yeah, and then
Speaker:that really just benefits anyone in Manitoba who wants to
Speaker:start up a commercial greenhouse operation. Exactly, and
Speaker:that's one of the things that I've been saying a lot. I really
Speaker:push that point when I'm having these conversations. I've said it for years now is
Speaker:that Like, you know, this isn't just for us. This is to try
Speaker:and create the opportunity for this industry here in our province.
Speaker:Yeah. Yeah. To be, to be recognized in Manitoba.
Speaker:Like we should, we should, this should be a bigger thing where we are, you
Speaker:know? Yeah. That's more jobs for people. Like we already have the Biosystems
Speaker:Engineering program. Yeah. So I'm sure we could get like a master grower,
Speaker:you know, program started at the U of M too. Like this could be a
Speaker:really good revenue generator for our province. I totally agree. And because
Speaker:we are a farming, ag, background community, our
Speaker:province, that really, that's in our roots, right? And so, this is just a kind
Speaker:of a newer version of farming an egg. That's what it is. So, we have
Speaker:the hydroelectricity, we generate that here in our province. I think the
Speaker:opportunity is great for us to do this. It's really just trying
Speaker:to, you know, bring this to everyone's attention. People don't
Speaker:necessarily know about this industry, so trying to bring awareness. And that's why, you know,
Speaker:I really appreciate you having me on your podcast because— I think what you're doing
Speaker:is great to try and bring awareness to this industry, right? Because it's something that
Speaker:maybe people don't know about as much. Yeah, thank you, Cormac. Well,
Speaker:at Little Greenhouse That Could, our vision is really to turn Manitoba into a
Speaker:hub for controlled environment agriculture. I love it. Yeah,
Speaker:I love it. That's awesome. Yeah, we all have to— I think if we all
Speaker:work together here, we can do it. Like, it's definitely within
Speaker:our reach, and there's a lot of people who
Speaker:want to, you know, get involved in the industry, but there's just so many
Speaker:questions and so many moving parts. And so I really
Speaker:appreciate, you know, Vermillion Growers for what you guys have done
Speaker:and being successful, because I really do think it opens up
Speaker:possibilities for a lot of different people in our province.
Speaker:And so I guess this actually is a great segue into
Speaker:kind of like our final questions, but what is your vision
Speaker:for the future? What's Vermillion Growers' vision and what do you
Speaker:personally want to see happen in the future? You guys have done
Speaker:so much already with Vermilion Growers. You've come so far,
Speaker:but Cormac, we've still got a lot to go. Agreed.
Speaker:Agreed. Yeah, we are just entering our 3rd season
Speaker:of production. We actually just planted here over this past week or so.
Speaker:And so we're starting our 3rd season growing tomatoes
Speaker:across the province. You'll see our tomatoes in stores, which is super
Speaker:exciting. When I go into my local grocery store, I
Speaker:walk into Superstore, for example, and I see our tomatoes sitting
Speaker:there, it's such a proud moment and an exciting
Speaker:feeling to think this is because we've been working on this for
Speaker:the past, you know, 8 years, right? It's such a cool thing.
Speaker:You did it. Exactly right. Like, it's so validating to see like, look, these
Speaker:are our tomatoes right here in store. And honestly, like, I'm the guy who's in
Speaker:the grocery store, like, taking pictures of tomatoes and like holding
Speaker:them up. And people are like, who's that? like weird guy, like, who's interested in
Speaker:these tomatoes, but that's what I do, right? And so, yeah, like it—
Speaker:I do the same thing with lettuce right now. Exactly. You understand. So,
Speaker:yeah, like, you know, we've come a long way, obviously, but like you say, we
Speaker:have a big vision. So this is really just the start. I mentioned that we
Speaker:call this first phase, like, our pilot project, even though, yes, it's like a
Speaker:10-acre growing area. It's about a 12-acre facility overall,
Speaker:but that's really just a pilot project for us. We see this as the
Speaker:first step of our expansion, and we'd really like to grow. We
Speaker:have plans on the particular site that we've started in Dauphin
Speaker:to grow to 70 acres of production. Wow. That's our goal on
Speaker:that site. And then from there, that's just the start, really. We'd
Speaker:like to see Vermilion Growers continue to grow in Manitoba,
Speaker:and then as well beyond us, we'd like to see more
Speaker:greenhouses pop up around the province, right? That's the idea, is that
Speaker:by Pioneering and making changes from the permitting side, the
Speaker:building code side, with different incentive programs. And,
Speaker:you know, like we talked about utility billing, all of these types of things that
Speaker:we've been working on for years, we're hoping that that's just laying the
Speaker:groundwork, the foundation for the industry here in Manitoba.
Speaker:And it's really cool because I've had the opportunity to speak at
Speaker:conferences and different events, and the excitement from people as they
Speaker:hear about what we're doing and learn about the greenhouse industry,
Speaker:You know, it's infectious. People get so excited and interested because it's, you know, where
Speaker:does our food come from? This is something that we talk about. And from the
Speaker:very beginning, you know, looking at food sovereignty, food security,
Speaker:these are things that, you know, are being talked about more. We went through
Speaker:COVID-19 as a nation, as a world, and that
Speaker:became something that people recognized and realized when all of a sudden there was
Speaker:food missing on our shelves in the store, right? So these
Speaker:types of real-world experiences that people have had, food is
Speaker:now becoming a bigger topic of, you know, where do we get it? Yeah. Right?
Speaker:Even looking at the political climate right now with tariffs, etc., there are questions of,
Speaker:you know, where does our food come from, transportation, all of this. And then of
Speaker:course from an environmental perspective. So the ability to
Speaker:grow locally in a region and produce food locally
Speaker:for that community is huge. And, you know, I should say,
Speaker:like, our mission as Vermilion Growers, our official mission, is to grow
Speaker:high-quality produce, healthy people, and sustainable
Speaker:communities. So those kind of 3 facets,
Speaker:there's a lot to unpack there, but that's our mission as a company.
Speaker:So we really do have, have, have, have big,
Speaker:big vision, um, and big goals, uh,
Speaker:and, and I'd say, you know, personally, I'm excited to be a part
Speaker:of this. This is something that's obviously been a huge aspect of
Speaker:my life for almost a decade now. And really
Speaker:the learning experiences that I've had and the relationships I've
Speaker:formed around the world with people in this industry has
Speaker:been amazing, honestly. Just,
Speaker:yeah, it's very humbling and I'm
Speaker:very proud of it. To have these connections and to
Speaker:meet with people and, you know, explore this with minds who
Speaker:have been in this industry for years, right? And there's so much expertise out there.
Speaker:It's just fascinating to be a part of it. Yeah.
Speaker:What do you think is your proudest moment from
Speaker:working in this space? Oh, that's a good question.
Speaker:My proudest moment, you know, I'd say that there have been a few
Speaker:for sure. I was honored
Speaker:to receive the Engineers Geoscientists Manitoba Intern
Speaker:Award back in 2021, I believe it was, for
Speaker:my work in the industry and as an engineer in training at that time,
Speaker:which was pretty amazing. I was really honored to receive
Speaker:that. And then of course, you know, when we actually opened the facility,
Speaker:that was in July of 2023 when we had our
Speaker:grand opening for our facility in Dauphin. That was, that was a,
Speaker:a pretty proud moment as well. It was amazing to be there
Speaker:with the community, with so many supporters and champions in the industry.
Speaker:We had some of our design teams and consultants from around the world
Speaker:who came for that event as well, which was really cool to have all these
Speaker:people in one place. Right. Um, and so
Speaker:that was a really proud moment. I, I had the opportunity to host the event
Speaker:as well with our team and, and Yeah, just to see the
Speaker:excitement and kind of the wow moment that everybody was having. Mm-hmm.
Speaker:That we had a point where we had our screens closed and it was all
Speaker:dark in the greenhouse. And during our grand opening, we opened
Speaker:everything up literally and had the light stream in and then it lit up the
Speaker:whole space. And it was a really cool experience and everybody
Speaker:got to have that moment together. So that was definitely a
Speaker:proud moment. And then of course, recently when I did a,
Speaker:obtain my professional engineering certification, just personally and
Speaker:professionally for myself. That's exciting. Yeah, you know, you got it. Like, you
Speaker:got it in an area that it's not— is not
Speaker:defined in Manitoba. Like, as a greenhouse design
Speaker:engineer, like, that's— when we graduate biosystems engineering,
Speaker:it's like, okay, your options now for becoming a professional engineer is
Speaker:you can go do environmental remediation, or,
Speaker:you know, you can work in water treatment or wastewater, but there's no
Speaker:real system set in place for greenhouse engineer in
Speaker:Manitoba, obviously, because we don't really have much
Speaker:until now for what you've done. So I think what
Speaker:your team and everyone has done, and, you know, Lucky and everyone on
Speaker:Vermilion Growers. So I think that is definitely a huge moment to be
Speaker:proud of, especially since the Engineers Association
Speaker:accepted, you know, all your experience, which of course they should,
Speaker:but— It's just, it's like a new, a new type of
Speaker:engineer here. Yeah. So it's great that, that they accepted
Speaker:everything and whatnot. Yeah, it's very validating. So that's
Speaker:definitely a proud thing for myself. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker:Well, congratulations, Cormac. I am really
Speaker:looking forward to working more with you
Speaker:and, you know, collaborating more with Vermillion Growers. And really,
Speaker:I am looking forward to helping students from
Speaker:biosystems engineering in Manitoba get
Speaker:into greenhouse design engineer roles in the future. Agreed.
Speaker:Building this industry. And, you know, I really love
Speaker:greenhouses for so many reasons, but one of the reasons, and of course
Speaker:food security is one of them, you know, one of the reasons is,
Speaker:and I'm hesitant to say this because people say, well, Trina, don't
Speaker:romanticize greenhouses like everyone does. And it
Speaker:is true. Like, I know working in a greenhouse day to day, As a
Speaker:laborer, a head grower, it can be very stressful. I'm
Speaker:definitely not going to undermine that at all. But
Speaker:the winters in Manitoba are so long and they
Speaker:are so cold and dark and whatnot. Like,
Speaker:if we had these greenhouses downtown and it's like,
Speaker:okay, like, here's an option, you know, you could have
Speaker:a couple different jobs, you know, you could work in an office,
Speaker:or would you like to— Yes. work in this really warm, nice
Speaker:area, you know, as a laborer or crop grower. I think there would be
Speaker:a lot of people who want to do that. They just don't
Speaker:know that those opportunities exist. Yeah. And, you know, and
Speaker:too, when we say greenhouses here, like people think, oh, uh,
Speaker:Shelmerdine's, or they think of like, you know, your garden center. And they think of
Speaker:a, a plastic or glass structure that has a bunch of houseplants that
Speaker:again is closed during the summer. And they're like, oh, you know, I don't really
Speaker:know. If, or sorry, closed during the winter, if there's a lot
Speaker:of opportunity. They don't understand, the average person,
Speaker:especially in Manitoba, doesn't understand what a commercial
Speaker:vegetable greenhouse operation is, what it
Speaker:looks like, what it feels like. And I think that if they did, there would
Speaker:be a lot of interest in people working these jobs. I
Speaker:mean, of course, like they're hard, they're long hours, they're tough. Yeah.
Speaker:And so, of course, there'd be challenges for that, but I'm sure
Speaker:there are solutions as well for creating
Speaker:employment. But yeah, but we'll see. That's a big thing for me to say
Speaker:because I know a bunch of people will be like, well, we've tried. The people
Speaker:in the area don't want these jobs. So, but
Speaker:I'll, so yeah, so I'm going to leave that, leave my opinions there because I
Speaker:know I'll get those comments after this podcast.
Speaker:But anyways, thank you so much for joining this,
Speaker:the Greenhouse Success Stories interview. It's been great
Speaker:to interview you. Of course, your story, it
Speaker:resonates so much with me and my personal experience here, but
Speaker:I think all the listeners across North America are going to
Speaker:be kind of blown away by what you guys have had
Speaker:to do and what you've had to go through in order to get your greenhouse
Speaker:started. And yes, and it's definitely something that you should be
Speaker:very proud about. And thank you for joining this call.
Speaker:Yeah, thanks for having me, Trina. I appreciate it. I
Speaker:hope you enjoyed this episode of Greenhouse Success Stories hosted by Trina Semenchuk.
Speaker:Thanks to our guests who make this all possible. Special thanks to our title
Speaker:sponsor, Arnois Greenhouse. To read the full show notes for each episode, which
Speaker:includes an episode summary, key takeaways, and guest
Speaker:resources mentioned, Please visit greenhousesuccess.com.
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