Sven Nys is a cyclocross superstar, he has two world titles in the discipline, leads the powerful Baloise Trek Lions team and now guides his superstar son Thibau's career.

He popped into speak with Bobby and Jens about how he dominated his sport, and how he passes on what he learnt to the next generation.

This episode of the Odd Tandem is also available in video form by searching for The Odd Tandem on youtube and ad free on our Patreon site.

Hello everyone, and welcome back

to the odd tandem.

2

With cyclocross season

right around the corner.

3

We got to sit down today

with one of the best cyclocross riders,

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not only of his generation,

but possibly of all time.

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He is now a general manager for

the Baloise Trek Lions cyclocross team.

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Jens, how great was that conversation?

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It was a great conversation

and I love to hear how quickly

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he transitioned from being the World

Star, Superstar winning

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two races per weekend

to become a team leader and going

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yeah, I love to win every race,

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but I also realistically know

we cannot win all the races.

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And you know, it's not easy for

a superstar to adapt to that situation.

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So I loved his answer there,

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how he works with the team

and to share the pressure in between them.

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It was a fantastic chat we had.

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And not only that,

talking about his cyclocross team,

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but his son Thibau Nys is ripping up

his second year in the world tour.

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I mean, he just came on

as a stage last year and this year so far

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he has nine wins.

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So sit back and relax and listen to our

awesome conversation with Sven. Nys.

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All right everyone,

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welcome back

to another episode of The Odd Tandem.

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Today we have Sven Nys with us Sven.

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Welcome to the odd tandem.

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Nice to have me.

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Thank you. You know,

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I think Jens, correct me if I'm wrong,

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that you're like the first,

like real cyclocross guy.

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We've had we've had mechanics.

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We've had some years

we've had cooks, riders.

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Obviously DS’s, but like this is going

to be fun because cyclocross season

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is right around the corner

and we just happen

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to have one of the best cyclocross

riders of all time with us today.

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So, Sven, I mean, cyclocross

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is a super intense effort.

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What drew you to cyclocross?

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Back in the day when you first started?

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Actually, BMX, when I was a kid,

I started when I was five years old

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with BMX.

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A lot of kids in my neighborhood

were riding the BMX bikes.

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And, a certain moment,

my parents brought me to a competition,

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and I did it until my 15 years old.

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And then BMX in Europe,

was getting a little bit more down.

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It was not an Olympic sport

at that moment,

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and I was looking for something new

where I could use my skills,

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my explosivity, and then, yeah, cyclocross

was already really popular in Belgium.

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We had at that time a world champion

in my neighborhood in the elite category.

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That was Danny de Bie.

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When I was a kid,

I was riding with my Belgian flag

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to do this, through the neighborhood

where he was living

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when he arrived from Pontchâteau,

the world Championships he won, and I was

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celebrating together with all the fans

that he won the World Championships.

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And that's my first experience,

my first passion I created for that sport.

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I was watching TV all weekend, and then I

said, okay, maybe I need to try that.

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Also, I can jump barriers, jump ditches

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where all the other guys needs to run,

with the bike on the shoulder.

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And I tried in competition and directly

I felt in love

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and I never stopped anymore until my 39th.

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So what do you think's

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when is it that in Belgium,

particular cyclocross is so popular?

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I mean, if for our viewers,

if you ever check on the internet.

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Belgium's hacker races,

they're spectators.

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It's tour de France style, right?

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10,000 of spectators around the circuit.

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Well, what?

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Why do you think?

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Why is it particular in Belgium

so popular?

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It was at that time also really popular

in other countries in Europe.

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Because, mountain bike was at that time

not an Olympic sport

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and a lot of, money, a lot of budgets

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went into cyclocross as, as a, as a sport.

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But at the moment

when mountain bike in Atlanta 96

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became an Olympic sport,

all the federations

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put all their money in, in mountain bike

and then a lot of countries,

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lost the interest in cyclocross,

but not Belgium.

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We we already invested a lot

with television, with,

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with organizations in the sport, and,

we stayed there.

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We understand

really well that that everybody wins

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when you come to a cyclocross.

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The rider because it's, it's, it's

something spectacular.

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But also the fans, they pay

a low budgets to come in the event

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and they see a whole day cyclocross races

from young kids until the elite,

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elite riders who are doing something

special in the field,

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running, jumping barriers,

and really intense on a high heart rate.

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And, we understand that business wise.

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That would also really interesting

for everybody.

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The fans, the promoters, the,

the brands who were investing in it.

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And that's something,

I always told myself.

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Why is that so difficult

in other countries?

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We created the last five,

six years in Waterloo with, with track,

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the World Cup over there

and I think they, they understood

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really well that, with the company,

we did something great over there.

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There was,

there was a huge party for everybody.

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They could join the event,

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they could write on the course

where the elite riders were riding.

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It was a party for everybody.

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And that's what we do every week

from September until the end of February.

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In cyclocross and covering on TV

is is pretty easy with a low budget.

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And that's not so easy with road cycling,

where everybody can go free to an event.

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Here you pay money to come to an event,

so everybody's winning.

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And that's so interesting.

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About cyclocross.

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I've never been to a

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cyclocross race over in, in Belgium

or in Europe at all.

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So for our viewers and our listeners

kind of paint the scene

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because what I fail to understand

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is you're out in a big, huge field

or course.

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Right. And but people pay.

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So how how do you block that off.

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So people actually have to pass through

a, I don't know, a ticket booth

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or something like that

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kind of set the stage of what

it would take to get into one of these

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events and what, what you could expect

during the day other than the racing.

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You can compare it with, motorcycling,

motocross,

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that's really popular in the US.

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It's really popular

also in Europe, world championships,

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all over the all over the,

the world today they host events.

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So they, they create an event

and it's all around, blocked with fans.

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So you need to come, like, in a stadium,

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and pay a ticket to come to the event.

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And the rest of the, the event

is blocked, so you can't come in.

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And once you are in, you are,

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coming to a party tent

where you can drink beer.

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Eat some French fries, burgers.

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There is music there.

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It's a huge festival.

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But in the end of the day, you see also,

high level performance from athletes

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that not only rightly cyclocross,

but combine also other disciplines.

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In the past,

we had already Adri van der Poel

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had that front from Mathuieu,

for example.

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That's a huge, example.

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He won classics in spring, but he also was

one of the big guys in cyclocross.

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And you can come really close to

to the riders

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who are doing something special.

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And, you see,

and now we're, high intense racing

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and it's always in the same area.

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For example, when you go to Tour

of Flanders, you're sitting on the street,

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and if you have luck,

you see them 2 or 3 times

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and all the rest of the race

you need to follow on TV.

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But in cyclocross,

all the fans are like in the stadium.

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And watch the race the whole hour.

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And there's happening a lot of things

because the weather changes.

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You need like in formula One, you need

to, to go to the bit a chains, bikes

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change tires because the grip you lost,

you lost some grip.

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So it's also tactical.

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You have guys in the pit

you need to clean your bike.

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Every other three, four minutes.

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You need to change your bike sometimes.

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And that makes things so, so interesting.

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It's always the same guys who are coming

every week,

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together to compete against each other,

but also the mechanics around the riders.

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They they,

they are going to be on television

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because they interview, those guys

when they working on the bikes.

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And what are you doing?

What are you changing?

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How much pressure is in the tire?

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So it's it's becoming

something really special.

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And everybody in Belgium knows what

the, the, the threat of, of, of cyclocross

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tires are because we are talking about

it's the whole winter and,

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and these are the things that make

cyclocross so interesting.

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And of course now with the huge,

ambassadors for our sport,

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like Wout van Aert or Mathieu

van der Poel, it's getting also bigger.

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A lot of WorldTour teams

getting also more interest into our sport

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because they see that all the skills

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you are using in cyclocross,

you can use them also on the road,

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you are more, technical,

you are more, in control in a platform.

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The acceleration is there

and the intensity helps you a lot.

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In the final of a cycle of a cycling,

classic, for example.

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Okay.

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You need to have also the distance

and train long distance in summer

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and also in winter to prepare also,

summer season.

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But combining those two, that makes you

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a more complete athlete

than only ride in one discipline.

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So and that also explains why Mathieu

van der Poel he can race the world

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championships and like two months later,

he can win Amstel Gold race.

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Right?

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Because he's training hard

on a high intensity level all winter long.

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So it helps him

getting quicker into the season.

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Yeah, but it's not for all the riders

because mature, the he's a special guy.

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He can combine high intensity races

in cyclocross.

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And for example, a day later

doing a distance

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training for five six hours on three

on the quads, for example.

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Not all athletes can do that.

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I know that he's training in Benidorm

and, around Spain

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the days before the World Cup,

cyclocross.

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And he's doing, the day before

even three, 4 or 5 hours,

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then do a race win that race.

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And the day after, he's doing again,

five hours.

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It's not every athlete who can do that,

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but definitely a lot of,

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riders

who are doing really well on the road

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for the moment starts,

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something inside

in cycling with cyclocross,

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Peter Sagan, one of the guys who did

cyclocross, mountain bike.

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Alaphilippe, one of those guys who also,

did cyclocross, on a young age.

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And those intensity and acceleration.

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Yeah, I see I think my son

now is a really good example, from,

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using all his cyclocross

skills and coming also a world to rider.

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Now, it.

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So how many times a week

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would you actually race a cyclocross race?

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It seems like pretty much 4 or 5 days

a week.

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You could.

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But like in your training phase plan.

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Do you do like a two day block?

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A three day block, day on, day off,

how many per week would you actually race?

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Competition? You mean race?

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Yeah. It depends on the, the period.

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And it depends,

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if you are combining, different

disciplines, for example, a rider

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like Wout van Aert, Mathiueu van der Poel,

they do let we say,

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then maximum 15,

cyclocross races in the season.

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My son is in the middle.

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He's doing now 20, 22 cyclocross races

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and the more more volume in cyclocross

because he's younger.

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And he needs also the intensity

and work on his, physical skills.

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Still,

but if you are a complete cyclocross rider

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and only focus on cyclocross

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and using the road

only to prepare yourself for cyclocross,

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then you are riding, between 30

and 40 races a season.

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And that means almost every weekend,

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double Saturday, Sunday,

and in the Christmas period I can

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almost say every day.

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So between 20th December and let we say

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5th of January day,

they almost race every day.

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So then there's not much training

possible, right?

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How did you negotiate it

back in your days?

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You just race and then just go

home, recover, lay down and race again

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because you cannot do more

now, riding right after a race,

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the biggest work needs to be done

before the cyclocross season started.

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You need to build a big, strong wall.

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And every time you're going to erase,

that's that's how I explain it

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a little bit more easy. You hit the wall.

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Always one hour heart rate.

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Full.

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180-185.

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Average heart rate.

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During a cycle cross race.

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And you hit the wall every, every time.

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The stronger the wall is

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the longer you can hold your shape,

the longer you can hold your condition.

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And you recover really quick

after the race.

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And you can train already on Tuesday

again.

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Really good.

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And that helps you,

when you have a small engine,

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in the beginning of the season,

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you can compete against the bigger

and stronger athletes.

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But in the end, you see that your shape

is going down a little bit more.

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And then,

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they need to think about, okay,

maybe do a little bit less intensity,

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less races, go to a training camp

in Spain, train some distance again

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to build up something,

something bigger again,

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and then prepare yourself

for the second part of the season

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where the championships

are, are, planned in the calendar.

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So it depends of what, what an athlete

you are, what can you handle,

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and how do you recover

from all those high intensity races?

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So give me a little bit of a

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phase plan, because as a road cyclist,

you know, our season would end.

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We'd start training, say, again

in the middle of November,

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December 1st at the very latest. Right.

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Then we would go through the spring.

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We'd have a little bit of a break,

then we'd build up for the tour,

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and then after the tour,

it was just kind of like

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if you had it, you could keep going.

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But when do cyclocross riders

prepare that wall?

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When do they do that endurance training,

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and then when do they shift

more to the racing?

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They do, let me say

between 30 and 40 cyclocross season.

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That's a classic cyclocross rider.

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And then he stops in the end of February.

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And then let me say, like a road, rider,

he has a small month,

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march that he's recovering

from all those races and competition.

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And then in the beginning of April,

he starts building on his shape again.

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Power training course, stability,

building up distance,

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going on training camp again in Spain,

because it's in Belgium.

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Or in Europe, the weather is not so good.

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Then they go to the, to the, to Spain

to, to have better weather

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training distance.

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And then in the end of May,

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they come in competition on the road again

to not do that.

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Then they have the distance,

but then they build up the intensity again

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in, in, in road

races, state races, continental states

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races, like Tour of Belgium, for example.

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That's one good example

that today most mostly do.

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And then the intensity building up again.

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And then in the end of August,

beginning of September,

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they start to train in cyclocross again,

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in the fields two, three times a week,

combining distance,

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until the start of the cyclocross season.

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And that's, that's, yeah, basically

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the way how we done it the last 25 years.

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But now things are changing really quick

because riders are combining

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a lot of, disciplines.

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And so,

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for example, now with Thibault and Wout

van Art, what you have on the pool,

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they don't go in a recovery mode

for 3 or 4 weeks anymore.

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So they make small recovery

weeks for five, six days.

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And they not drop their,

their condition anymore

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that deep as we did in the past.

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So they not gained weight anymore.

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They stay really sharp.

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So after five six days

they start training again

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and they are really quick

on the really high level.

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And but they do it more often

so that in the end of the year

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they have the same days of recovery,

but more spreaded in the year.

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So like Thibau

now, he, done tour of Poland.

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He's done a, a last weekend

and now is six days in recovery mode,

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and then start training again

for cyclocross season.

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But he did that already

also off the cyclocross season.

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He did that that already

in the end of June after tour of Swiss

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for five, six days

and went on a holiday for five, six days.

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So in the end it's almost three weeks.

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Also, but it's spread it into the year.

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So you are a long career, right?

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You finished what, at the age of 38

or 39? 39.

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Yeah. 39. Yes.

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With tickets these days,

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I find it hard to believe they will last

until you are 39 years old.

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Or like in my case, 42, because they do,

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you know, mountain

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biking, cyclocross and road racing

and all at a very high level.

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So, I don't see them

having 20 years of career

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or you think the way they organize it,

it's so smart.

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They can also go for many, many years.

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It depends. What rider it is.

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You see more often

now that they write less races.

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That's also the reason is also

that otherwise the pressure is always on,

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like what you have on the bull

when they coming to a race,

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it's always for winning.

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If they don't win, they need to talk

to the press and say, hey,

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that's the reason why I don't won.

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That's also the reason why they not race

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that, so much anymore.

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Like, like in the past,

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because they need to recover

not only physically but also mentally.

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It's not this, these days.

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It's not only going about pressure in the

race, but it's also pressure.

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When you train

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your food, your sleep, your,

everything is measured.

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Everything is on pressure,

and on a certain moment

340

you are going to have mental problems

because of that.

341

And that's the reason why they

342

they take more short breaks to recover

from all those things.

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But for sure, it's a good question.

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Yes.

345

It's a new generation,

and we need to see how long it's going to,

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Yeah, to have all those athletes

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on a high on a high intensity, capacity.

348

Because I don't know, actually,

it's something new for the moment.

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And we need to experience

what's going to happen with those guys.

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But you need to to have fun.

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And if you if you're losing the fun

352

and in training and competition,

then it's going down really quickly.

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But let's face it, Sven,

you lived through this.

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You were that champion.

355

You were the one that if you didn't win,

you had to answer the reasons why.

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You run your own cyclocross team

and your son, like you said,

357

is an amazing athlete with a huge future

both on the cycle and in cyclocross.

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And on the road.

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What are the

360

tricks that you used to deal

with this pressure?

361

Number one,

and what do you kind of convey to your son

362

and your riders, of what you've learned

in, you know,

363

those little tricks of the trade

for dealing with this?

364

Because dang,

365

Belgium and Holland

366

in cyclocross is pressure.

367

Yeah.

368

You know, Belgium in particularly

basically for any cycling sport,

369

you know, the pressure is massive.

370

And sometimes I just feel so sorry

for these kids.

371

Tell us a little bit about what

372

what you suggest to these young riders.

373

What I, what

I told my son, in the beginning

374

when he wanted and he had the dream to

to become also a cyclocross rider.

375

I said directly, hey, but it's not easy

because everybody is going to to

376

to see and to come compare

with what I did in the past.

377

And,

you need to, to know that it's not easy.

378

And he said directly,

but that's my dream. That's my goal.

379

That's what I want.

380

And I told them directly,

okay, what you are going to learn, handle

381

pressure, handle also, losing something,

winning something.

382

Communicate.

383

Traveling around the world,

talking in other languages.

384

This is something that you are going

to learn much more quick

385

than when you are, becoming something,

when you are going to study, because.

386

And going to work

because it's going much faster.

387

The pressure that, the, yeah.

388

The way how you need to

to learn what your body is,

389

how your body is reacting on everything,

it's going to help you also in life

390

when it's not going to be what you want

in the end of the of these days.

391

And that helped a little, a little bit.

392

But what I'm doing right now

is try to create a team

393

with guys who can help each other.

394

If you have, one guy who is always

in, in the lead, always

395

is that one guy who needs to to,

to be the guy who wins the races.

396

The pressure is on.

397

But I have now three last year for guys

who are on the same level.

398

And when one guy was doing less results,

399

the other guys were on the podium.

400

So and then the pressure is a little bit

going down

401

and they can help each other,

when they have a bad day.

402

And that's a few presents that

you can drop the pressure a little bit.

403

Because

404

when, when there is one leader,

one guy who always needs

405

to, to be there,

it makes things more complicated.

406

And that's what I try to, to do,

make a team with guys who help each other

407

when not only, have a really good day,

but also when they have a bad day.

408

And these are the things that are

really important in a team for the moment.

409

I love the way you put it.

410

You explain it to support each other,

help each other.

411

Because my my question was you were like

412

the first big superstar

cyclocross, right?

413

Multiple times world champion.

414

You used to win

basically twice per weekend.

415

So when you started

the team, was that hard for you?

416

When you say, okay, normally in this,

in this months I would win six races.

417

Now you the entire team, you only won one.

418

Was it hard for you to accept it?

419

Or you you you realized.

420

No, he did all he can

and that's all that I can ask of them.

421

Or was it a learning process

for you to understand?

422

We need to separate

or to to spread the pressure a little bit

423

because you want so many races for you?

424

Probably it was easy to win. Yeah.

425

For some people it's not right.

426

No, no, no.

427

That's it was a learning process

because I'm a winner.

428

I want to win. If if for each. Yeah.

429

If I think about it

I want to win every race.

430

But it's not easy.

431

And I directly said to myself, okay,

I can't,

432

always go to my riders.

433

I say, but hey,

this is what I did in the past.

434

And when you do it like that,

you are going to win also races.

435

No no no no. Things are changing.

436

You need to, you need to learn not.

437

They don't need to learn only from me.

438

I need also to learn from them

because, they have now new technology.

439

There's now

a new experience in the peloton.

440

They ride with other bikes

than what we do.

441

For example, I raced only one year

with this breaks in cyclocross.

442

So the way how they handle a bike

right now is completely different

443

than what I did.

444

So I need to do to understand also that

445

cycling is changing

and that I need to learn also from them.

446

And if you can communicate

with the riders,

447

the way I try to do

that helps to learn from each other.

448

And then become one and one become three.

449

And that's what we try to do.

450

I use my experience.

451

They also give me the information

from in the peloton.

452

And then we combine

and try to to make huge steps.

453

That's what I try to do. But

454

getting

455

everything out of an athlete, it's for me

much more important

456

than try to win

as much as I did in the past.

457

I love that.

458

I love that I want to break this up

a little bit with a technical question,

459

because I do really enjoy

watching cyclocross races.

460

We don't get them over here.

461

But now with all the streaming things

we can tune into them quite a bit.

462

Not to brag here, but I was a junior

463

national champion in cyclocross in 1989.

464

Yeah. Wow.

465

So I've got.

466

Yeah. So I got a little experience here.

467

But one of the questions

that I have is dismounting these days

468

when I was riding, the brake, you know,

the brakes were reversed.

469

So I had my rear brake on the left,

and I would

470

if I was dismounting on the left,

because I couldn't do it on the right.

471

Anyway, I would swing my leg,

472

you know, around, and I would step through

with my right leg,

473

through

between my, my left leg and the frame

474

so that we were taught that that way

you can start running right away.

475

But now I see the best.

476

Pidcock, Mathieu, Wout.

477

They all flip their

leg around on the outside.

478

When did that

479

change or was

I just taught wrong in the first place.

480

No. Both are good.

481

But you need to understand that

when you, go with your foot

482

between the bracket and your,

your other leg,

483

you make more speed

because you do one step to the front.

484

If you swing your leg

and do one step back,

485

then you are without brakes already.

486

Dropping the speed a little bit.

487

And that's the reason why a lot of riders

more love to to do one step back.

488

And it's also less complicated

when you're clicked in your pedal.

489

The foot that's on the pedal,

490

if you can't click out

quick enough, you are going to crash.

491

If you put your foot behind, your body,

then you brake already a little bit

492

and it's much more easy to click out

the other foot out of the pedal.

493

That's the reason why

494

a lot of riders are doing the opposite

than what you did in the past.

495

But it's it's faster what you are doing,

but it's more complicated.

496

And just to remind you again, the,

497

We didn't have the, the clip out pedal,

so it was a little bit trickier.

498

But, no, I've just been thinking

about that for multiple years now.

499

So thank you, Sven, for that. Yeah.

500

That explanation.

501

Yeah.

502

It's, it's, I learned a lot

503

when I, doing clinics

also for people dismounting a bike.

504

It's not that easy. Like,

everybody's thinking it.

505

It looks really easy.

506

But do it on a high speed

with a heart rate of 181, 85.

507

It's completely different.

Then, then do it really slow

508

and adding

509

your pressure

as that obstacle is approaching you.

510

You don't.

511

There's this big block of wood

or stone sitting there.

512

You got to jump across.

513

So you need to be able to stop

and get your foot on the ground before.

514

Yeah, it's when we have something.

515

Yes. No, no, you can jump them also.

516

Yes.

517

Yeah I know, I know,

I don't want to jump anything.

518

We need to keep our rubber on the

on the dirt.

519

Yeah. No, no.

520

And you need to understand.

521

And I like it's really, really a lot.

522

What what I see right now.

523

You need to understand that we right

with normally with the pressure

524

and it's in bar.

525

So you need to

you need to, explain it to be easy,

526

but it's a one between 1 and 1.5 bar,

527

that we are riding in competition

on the highest, highest speed.

528

So it's almost nothing. That's the limit.

529

1.5 bar. It's maximum.

530

Yeah, I remember that when we met at,

531

cyclocross World Cup

in, in in Madison in the US.

532

I was, I'm a road cyclist.

533

I was at least on four and a half. Yeah.

534

And you were just laughing at you're like,

that's that's what I need to feel safe.

535

That was one and a half.

536

Everything's just wobbling around

537

and I wouldn't feel

I have any control of my bike.

538

That's what you do, right? Yeah.

539

That's the reason why we can't race

for the moment in cyclocross with tires.

540

We tried.

541

We tested, but there is so much pressure

542

on the tire

that it's always coming off the rim.

543

Because the pressure of the,

the the, the, there is too much less,

544

air in the, in the tire

and it's always coming off.

545

So they need to glued on the rim.

546

Otherwise we have problems.

547

You mean to to tubeless.

548

No, no.

549

Yeah.

550

In in road racing

they don't ride tubes anymore.

551

So they are not glued on the rim anymore.

552

And,

we see more and more that for example,

553

also track, but also other companies

they test more and more to,

554

to bring also the, the the tires

555

into cyclocross, into so that, that

556

they don't need to glue anymore

the tire on the rim.

557

But we can't handle with that low

pressure, the tire,

558

on the rim because it's always coming

off, for our viewers, viewers

559

and our listeners.

560

Our producer Mark

just sent me a note saying that 1.5 bar

561

basically translates to 20 psi a

that's the max of that.

562

That is insane.

563

Yeah, that that is basically riding around

on a flat tire.

564

Yeah. I'm always feeling the rim.

565

You always feeling the rim.

566

And when you come in a corner,

you hear the noise of a of a tire

567

that's coming off the rim.

568

That's, that's the noise you have always

when you're doing cyclocross.

569

And also, when I

570

try to lower tire pressure,

with the tubeless

571

because the lower pressure,

the ends of the tire

572

are not really squeezed

tight enough to the rim.

573

And then when you do it, like,

especially the one before the,

574

the factory hit, the tricky downhill

steep down was a two turns

575

and something

I even think you call it, tire fart.

576

You know, like the tire separates

because of the pressure

577

and you lose, it separates from the rim

and you go and you're basically flat.

578

Yeah, through.

579

That's true.

580

But but, imagine, riding

bunny to bear for the moment.

581

The roads ride with the pressure

and the tires they are doing right now.

582

They are riding with the same,

583

33, 30, 33 millimeter tires

than what we do in cyclocross.

584

It's a completely different sport than 20,

25 years ago when Jens Foyt was riding

585

the cobblestones, with with small,

narrow, tubes and five, six bar.

586

And now they ride with three, three

and a half bar.

587

It's completely different.

588

Hey, m to n we got something.

589

Quite a quick fire.

590

I give you four questions.

591

You got to choose one of them. Okay?

592

I'm ready for that. Yeah, it's easy.

593

Frites with mayo or ice cream?

594

Frites with mayo.

595

I, of course,

you're a proper Belgian, right?

596

That's what you do already.

597

Cycling or snooker?

598

Cycling?

599

Cyclocross or mountain biking?

600

Cyclocross.

601

What is more stressful

competing in Paris-Roubaix

602

yourself or watching table racing?

603

Watching TV racing.

604

Definitely.

605

Already

I think I would have answered the same.

606

Oh yeah, I went to the first couple stones

in Roubaix

607

three times and okay, I was nervous,

608

but I could control the bike myself.

609

But now I'm watching TV

or I'm, at the race and I'm seeing my son

610

and I want to do so much things

and I can't do anything anymore.

611

So that's so stressful.

612

And of course,

I hope that he don't crash sometimes.

613

I'm commentating also for Belgium

television and there is a bunch

614

sprint coming

and he's always, always there also.

615

And then I'm out of control. It's

not easy.

616

Yeah, it is so cool.

617

I mean, Jens and I are 53.

618

You're a little bit younger,

but at least the age gap

619

is in 20 or 30 years, like

with some of our guests that we have on.

620

So, you know, we're all fathers

and it's just so cool to see

621

so many riders coming up

622

that their mother or father

were were cyclists.

623

Yeah. They never saw something else.

624

Thibau was always, in my neighborhood

when I did cyclocross.

625

It's different than on the road

626

that we traveled with my family,

every weekend to the race.

627

My son was always there.

628

The first thing that came out of the truck

629

was his bike to control,

the parking area.

630

If the

if the tires of his bike were okay.

631

And he was always,

he was three years and a half

632

when

we had not had cycling shoes for him,

633

but he put his shoe in my cycling shoe,

and then he taped them

634

around his pedals that he was clipped in

like like like like, is that crazy?

635

It crashed every other minute,

but he was standing up and riding again.

636

And that's the way

how everything started. Wow.

637

That's cool.

638

Hey, I don't know if this is

if you can answer this question because,

639

you know, champions like yourself

sometimes are think on a different plane.

640

But who did you enjoy racing against

641

in cyclocross,

or was it just pure war out there?

642

You didn't you didn't

have you weren't able to have friends?

643

Oh yeah.

644

I and well friends is different

645

than than than, respect

for all the riders who I raced with,

646

but the one, I like

the most to compete against was, by,

647

because Steve Barr was.

648

He was younger than me, ten years,

but he was always thinking

649

on the same moment at the, this

650

he wanted to do the same move

on the same moment, like I did.

651

So when I thought,

okay, now I need to do a move.

652

Move about did the same.

653

He had the same acceleration.

654

He was younger.

655

So, when we came in a sprint,

he was just a little bit more explosive.

656

He loved.

657

And he had the passion for cyclocross,

like.

658

Like I did.

659

I saw him last week in Spain,

660

and still we have a good connection

together.

661

I'm a little bit disappointed that he,

662

Yeah.

663

Moved to road

racing a little bit too early,

664

I think, because combining a little bit

longer helped him in his career.

665

Also a little bit more, I think.

666

But okay, that's his choice.

667

But Steve Barr was, for me, the guy.

668

I lost 2 or 3 world championships against

him, but I never felt the guy who lost.

669

I felt myself, really proud

670

that we had, the battle

until the finish line.

671

And that's really nice.

672

So back in your days

when you would go to World Cup weekend,

673

for example, racing twice,

how big was your team?

674

How many people get you bring?

675

How many bikes actually did you bring.

676

And you change bikes

depending on the weather, of course, every

677

lap or twice a lap or how many bikes,

how much material would you need

678

for like a double weekend in a World Cup

bike and back in your career?

679

It never changed, actually.

680

But it's still the same.

681

Every rider I did

also had four cyclocross bikes

682

every race, in my truck,

683

ten pairs of wheels

with different threats, different,

684

yeah,

685

sizes

also from the from the from the tire,

686

where I could choose

what I'm going to do in the race and,

687

I had, 2 or

688

3 mechanics

that were always working in the pits

689

or near the track to,

to prepare, the competition bikes.

690

I at once when you're at the finish line.

691

And my dad was always there to, to right

692

the track from race to race against, the.

693

Yeah, he was also there,

my wife was there and my son. So.

694

But guys who worked with me

always the same four,

695

five guys, and that's for every rider.

696

So that's completely different

than in, road racing.

697

In my team, for the moment,

every rider has his own truck with his own

698

four bikes, his own ten pairs of wheels,

his own four, five mechanics.

699

And it's one, street,

700

who are in that own cocoon

preparing that cyclocross race.

701

And we as coaches, we go from truck

to truck to see, hey, can we help?

702

Can we support?

703

Is this the perfect

the perfect preparation for you?

704

Do you need something?

Do we need to change? Change?

705

And we are in the pits

to communicate with the mechanics.

706

And that's that's how cyclocross is going.

707

That is cool.

708

So you go from being that ultra catered

to athlete

709

to now catering to the athletes.

710

Yeah.

711

I think it's always interesting,

you know, with, with coaching

712

or being the general manager of a team,

713

you always think to yourself,

714

I want to ensure that this rider has

what I wish I had.

715

Yeah. When I was racing through. Right.

716

So how was that transition going from

717

the person that's getting

all the attention, getting all this,

718

this, this special stuff to being the one

that has to think about that.

719

Was that an easy transition for you?

720

Yeah, for me it was really easy because

I never forgot from where I come from.

721

And step off the bike

and walk around the venue

722

and, using all my knowledge

723

and helping other guys win a race,

I loved it.

724

And for me, it was not difficult to say,

hey, I won, two world championships.

725

I won all those World Cups.

726

I'm not going to walk around the course

and going with my foot in the mud again.

727

And no, no, no, for me,

that's what I lost the most for me.

728

It's, that's that's why I stayed

in, in the sport, not to sit around,

729

a table and talk with, with,

730

with, with brands

and see if we can do something together.

731

Okay.

732

That's also a part of my job,

733

but what I love the most is being

in the fields, talking with the riders,

734

helping them,

running as hell from from left to right

735

and to communicate with the riders

that they need to to find another line.

736

Because whether it's changing,

they need to know pressure of the tire.

737

That's what I yeah,

that's what second cross is still for me.

738

And it was really, really easy.

739

When I stopped I felt, okay, it's enough,

740

I won what I, what I dreamed of,

I lost and it's okay.

741

I don't have a problem with it.

742

It is what it is.

743

And now it's time for something

completely new.

744

And we going to try to let other guys,

the younger generation win also races.

745

And when I can help them, that's my dream.

746

I got

to like, another technical question.

747

In your career and also now,

how many changes

748

like change, right,

you go through in a season?

749

I mean, if you have a muddy,

rainy weekend in Belgium,

750

to change is done after one weekend.

751

No no no no no.

752

Okay.

753

No no no, let's say every bike.

754

So for bikes we change three maximum

four times the change.

755

Okay.

756

That's less than I thought. Yeah.

757

And you need to know also that

we not always using the four bikes during,

758

during a competition day

because sometimes

759

50% of the races,

you can race with one bike

760

because it's dry,

it's really fast running through the sand.

761

And then you have the damage on

the chain is not that big.

762

But it depends of, Yeah.

763

How, how the season is going.

764

If it rains from October until February,

you need to use more change.

765

But with four bikes, it's

it's it's doable.

766

Hey, Jens, when was the last time

you changed your chain on your bicycle?

767

Actually,

768

I have a cyclo cross bike,

which is out of production now for many,

769

many years, and I still have a cable sram

set on there.

770

It was the hottest stuff ever

when I got it.

771

Brand new, and I think, I think

I still have the same chain cassette.

772

The one.

773

Yeah.

774

Like, yeah, I was going to say,

775

but it's only it's only two of my gears

that work, only two mixed with bike.

776

But I, I'm just too lazy

and I do it tomorrow.

777

I do it tomorrow.

778

It'll work

good enough. It'll work good enough.

779

Sven, I've heard a rumor that cyclocross

780

is possibly joining the Winter Olympics.

781

Is that going to be a reality?

782

More and more.

783

That's what I hear.

784

Also,

during Olympics in Paris, a month ago.

785

I hope it's

786

going to happen, because then our sport

is coming to another level

787

because all those federations

are going to invest again in cyclocross.

788

And, you know,

young generation is going to dream

789

to have also a gold or silver

or a bronze medal.

790

So, yeah, if we can, if we can arrange

that and I think Lappartient,

791

the boss of UCI for the moment

is, is, is promoting it,

792

he wants to bring it to the Olympics

in France.

793

That's what I hear.

794

So then we talk about, 2030, I think,

795

if we can arrange that for then, yeah,

that that would be amazing.

796

So we are we coming from really far?

797

Because I was in the cyclocross

commission 50 years ago,

798

but then, women's cyclocross was almost

not existing.

799

Is this existing?

800

We are.

801

The prize money was not equal.

802

So a lot of things are changing.

803

We have now also the international, press

is coming to cyclocross.

804

Men and women are equal.

805

The prize money in World

Cups is the same for men as for women.

806

It's not the same in road cycling,

but it is in in cyclocross.

807

It's a huge step that we did.

808

So all those things helped a lot.

809

And the only thing

that was always a struggle

810

is that it needs to be on snow or ice,

811

and we can race on snow and ice,

but it's not always like that.

812

And that was the struggle we had also

with the whimper, Winter Olympics.

813

But if there is snow and ice, no problem.

814

We can raise on snow and ice because

we did already a few times in, Valley.

815

So like, for example, at the World Cup,

so they saw that it's possible,

816

if you ever go to a

817

big race like that, Olympics, World

Cup, world Championships, how does for you

818

or the riders today, how does the morning

before the race look like?

819

And the last hour?

820

Because for our viewers and listeners,

821

cyclocross general racing is one hour

plus one lap, right?

822

So more or less

it's about one hour and a few minutes.

823

So you need to be sharp

and ready at the start.

824

You can I missed the start because

you only have 60 minutes of racing right.

825

So you got to be as warmed up as possible.

826

How do you manage that?

827

Like how was the last hour or

the last two hours before race look like?

828

So, when you normally all the riders,

they start

829

coming out of their own home,

if when it's racing in Belgium,

830

okay, when it's not done it,

then it's coming out of the hotel

831

traveling through the race.

832

They do some, warm ups on the rollers.

833

Half an hour, just spinning the legs.

834

After breakfast,

to have a little bit of warm up.

835

Doing some stretching.

836

And then three hours before the race,

they have their last, meal.

837

Spaghetti or iced

838

or what they, what they really quick

can recover from because in the race,

839

the stomach needs to be empty

and the legs needs to be full.

840

That's also in a time trial like this.

841

And then they, go to the course

and do three laps,

842

the record of all the laps to see,

843

how are the circumstances,

with which, wheels do I need to ride?

844

What is the pressure of my tires?

845

Then they communicate with the mechanics.

846

The bikes, are prepared.

847

Go to the to the tracks again, recover

a little bit, drink,

848

and then try to be a little bit more

relaxed

849

and then, let me say do the, time

850

trial warmup 40 minutes before the race.

851

Some of them do it on the,

on the rollers, some of them on the roads.

852

Just do some really hard

intensity accelerations

853

that you're not having that one

first acceleration

854

in the first lap of the race

because otherwise you are done.

855

It needs to be before the race.

856

And at the first,

857

minute of the race, you need to be

you need to be on directly.

858

You need to feel, okay.

859

I'm ready. I'm there.

860

I can handle, one hour high intensity

on a really high heart rate.

861

And doing all the things that I trained

for, during the week.

862

After the race, it's recovery.

863

Spinning on the rollers again,

864

having food recovery shakes

and so on, going through the massage.

865

And then most of the times

they race on Sunday again,

866

and then everything, comes again

on the same night.

867

So in the end of the day, they,

they write that we say three, 3.5 hours.

868

Their bikes,

and they do one hour of competition.

869

A quick follow up question

you mentioned before, I

870

an average of hundred and 80, 285

heart rate, right.

871

Yeah.

872

So and also for our viewers,

the listeners to to bet on a stent,

873

it might go up to 190, but you never

recover down to 120, 130 heart rate.

874

Right.

875

Like we've been on a long descent.

876

Our heart rate ten minutes descent.

877

It goes down to two at 100.

878

You never have that really right.

879

It's like it's more or less obvious.

880

Full guess, like a time trial.

881

Isn't it true?

882

The longest descent you have is 15 20s.

883

So you have the feeling in a cyclocross

race, sometimes that you recover,

884

in the legs that, that

885

that you have a little bit more, yeah.

886

Acceleration.

887

Again,

but the heart rate is not going down.

888

So let me say in a, in a good race

889

when you are fresh,

the heart rate is average 180.

890

The lowest is 175

891

That's, that's that's that's a normal day.

892

Wow. So

893

you know not to mention it again NC

but during

894

my national championship days

895

we would go to Denver, Colorado,

which was probably a three hour drive.

896

There was this little reservoir

called Chatfield Reservoir,

897

and we would race Saturday and Sunday

and I would be so buckled.

898

You know, the from carrying

the bike on my, on my shoulder

899

to crashing to nicks and scratches

hitting trees and whatnot,

900

I would basically have to go

to high school, with all these sorts

901

of limps and cuts and bruises,

and it only got better.

902

Basically, on Friday when I was traveling

to the next weekend of racing,

903

you know,

so I just, I just I'm blown away.

904

I mean, recovery techniques, nutrition,

905

has has come a long, long way

906

since, since I was racing

and especially now.

907

But, Sven, we get this question a lot.

908

Do you did

you have your nutrition dialed in?

909

I mean, you just gave us that protocol,

which is very, very good, making

910

sure that your legs, your stomach is empty

and your legs are full.

911

But do you think you could have

benefited from some of the

912

technical, technical

913

advances in nutrition that the riders

have at their disposal today?

914

Oh, yeah, it's it's another level.

915

If you see the way how they, now

916

talk about food, about recovery, about,

917

hydrate,

918

in, in, in circumstances

like the tour of Spain for the moment,

919

I always suffered when it was warm,

but I,

920

I did the Olympics in Beijing

on the mountain bike,

921

and I lost my, my,

922

my, my my good result in the last,

923

race in the last lap

because of, dehydration.

924

If you see what they do right now

and the way how they do the

925

the heat protocol and then, they,

they the first thing they do

926

when they come out of that is, hey,

how many hours do I sleep?

927

And the deep sleep and,

928

Oh, I see it in my sleep.

929

And everything is now, in a schedule

930

going through the coach,

and they communicate with each other.

931

It's crazy.

932

So if I had all that knowledge

when I was a rider.

933

Yeah.

934

that I could do another level.

935

But that's for every rider.

936

That's also for you guys.

937

Yeah.

938

It's it's

we did it with the things we had the.

939

Yeah.

940

Except you have you have you had. Yeah.

941

It's when is it sometimes a problem when

942

road cycling superstars

Wout van Aert, Mathieu van der

943

Poel or Pidcock come to a cross races

and get some appearance fee.

944

Is there like a conflict

with the classics

945

cross riders because they could go

hey listen they already

946

earning millions

million dollar contracts on the road.

947

They don't need that start money.

948

But me I only have 40 races to make money

for my living, for my family.

949

It's just sometimes like a conflict

or jealousy between

950

the classic cyclo cross riders

and two superstars

951

just coming in with a private jet,

going for a win and going out again.

952

No, riders are always,

953

understand

that you have the heroes that you have.

954

The guys will bring also, the press

will bring also the fans to to an event.

955

And that's normal that they get higher.

956

Starting fee than, than another rider.

957

They understand that

if they're going to pay those riders

958

and completely not going to pay

all the other riders, then it's a problem.

959

But if you do it on on the right level,

then it's no problem.

960

And they understand really well that

when both are mature or coming to a race,

961

that there is also much more interesting

for for the riders themself.

962

So it helps also to promote cyclocross.

963

When they are there,

don't they have respect for them.

964

And the respect is also there from what

you have out to all the other riders.

965

No, that is completely no frustration.

966

Sven, listen, thank you so much

for coming on the odd tandem today.

967

We wish you and your team, all the best

968

in the upcoming cyclocross season,

which is right around the corner.

969

Thank you.

970

And, yeah,

good luck with your your young son.

971

And, you know, biting

the nails isn't very good.

972

So, you know, maybe you have, like,

a little, pillow there or a little towel

973

that you on when your son is doing

those field sprints.

974

So thank you again for your time

for coming on the odd tandem today.

975

Thank you very much.

976

And definitely you need to come

to a Belgium cyclocross race called me.

977

And I'm going to help you to, to enjoy

the event because yes, knows what it is.

978

It's it's it's amazing

979

what it is.

980

It's a festival. Festival of cycling.

981

Yeah.

982

That yeah, we should do that

and then do a podcast from there.

983

Oh, yeah. Have a left.

A blond at the left.

984

Come on in.

985

Chat at the microphone in the middle.

986

Haven't spent as long as my French fries

have ketchup and not mayonnaise.

987

I can make that work.

988

Well, that's everything for this week.

989

Now remember to follow us

@Odd Tandem on TikTok,

990

Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and wherever

you get your favorite podcasts.

991

Thanks to Sven for joining the podcast.

992

Also remember,

if you want to see the video version

993

of this podcast,

it's up on our YouTube channel right now.

994

Youtube.com/@oddtandem.

995

And if you want the full,

uninterrupted version of this podcast

996

and your name in the titles,

just head to our Patreon

997

where you can sign up for as little as $5

a month and keep this podcast going.

998

That's Patreon!

999

Thanks. Com slash odd tandem.

00:55:09,431 --> 00:55:12,225

And big thanks to our Patreon members.

00:55:12,225 --> 00:55:15,979

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00:55:16,104 --> 00:55:21,067

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00:55:21,443 --> 00:55:26,698

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00:55:26,823 --> 00:55:30,660

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00:55:30,660 --> 00:55:35,332

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00:55:35,457 --> 00:55:40,045

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00:55:40,295 --> 00:55:43,840

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00:55:49,971 --> 00:55:53,016

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